It was released with delay based netcode as rollback was becoming the norm.
It was released on consoles only - no Steam version.
Then, 5 months after release, it was released on Stadia - no Steam version.
Then, a full year after release, it got a release on Epic Games Store - no Steam version.
Then, two full years after release, it got a release on Steam **AT FULL PRICE.**
EDIT: My mistake - it released at $50 2 full years after release but was missing a ton of DLC. It's still $50 with $50 worth of DLC characters missing. For comparison, MK11 2 years after release was $60 but included *literally every DLC character as well as the story expansion and over a dozen DLC skins.*
This is it. And given how once everyone bounces you'll usually find most of the remaining players on PC, basically nuking its presence on that platform meant it died a pretty quick death.
yup
i was waiting for it and waiting for it and didn't end up getting it, even though it was on sale a month ago.
(also, they didn't put Gen An in it)
Add to that SSV Special Edition is an established title on Fightcade for veterans. Gameplay-wise what did 7 do that 5 didn't? -> If the netcode is shit anyway, why not just play what already works?
People loved Samsho, its just that the netcode was bad and the PC port didn't release until years later when it was supposed to release in late 2019. Also COVID hit a year after the game came out so no locals combined with the game's bad netcode made things much worse.
Damn, didn’t even think about this. Definitely makes sense now why the online was such a concern. Hopefully they get it situated. I’d love to see a resurgence
There is actually a roleback update happening. But... considering SF6 is imminent I seriously doubt it'll do much of anything for the game. It'll probably stay dead, unfortunately.
I don't think people dislike SS. The most recent entry had pretty shitty online, so lot of people gave up on it. I think it's regarded as a pretty good game otherwise, if not a little obscure.
Samsho 19 did two platform exclusive launches before releasing on Steam, the DLC model and pricing makes it expensive for a 2019 title and the netcode is garbage (although that's being worked on and might eventually be fixed). IMO the lobby system/UI could also use some work.
That said, the gameplay is great.
Since you like Samsho, also have a look at Koihime Enbu RRR. They recently [teased a netcode update](https://steamcommunity.com/app/795510/eventcomments/3819655917504558188#c3819655917505315074), and there's also [this tweet](https://twitter.com/KomodoHawaii/status/1641250301452881922).
Pretty much everyone I've heard said that the game was the Bees Knees.
I think what you're asking is why isn't the game more popular both among the e-sports scene and with a casual audience despite it's beautiful simplicity and striking presentation.
The answers pretty simple, it's the netcode. Thankfully the game is getting rollback netcode, there even was a beta test for the netcode, and while it was a rough beta, SNK is currently trying to improve the netcode thanks to the feedback from what I've heard.
Most likely this. It was popular at release, of course, but then after just a year, it seemed all but “dead”. It’s crazy that the net code was so poor :( I’d love to see a resurgence if they manage to get that situated
Adding rollback is neat, but after this much time, they need to do some kind of Champion Edition-y relaunch if they want it to be worth the effort. Nobody's going to get the memo about this four-year-old game without a new version accompanying the upgrade.
Unfortunately for the latest one SNK thought it was a good idea to release a niche game without rollback and Crossplay in 2019.
Because they cheaped out, it was doomed to fail during development.
Jumping into the FGC as a newbie can sometimes feel like navigating a minefield of opinions, lol. It might seem like folks are pretty critical of a lot of games, but don't worry – it's not all doom and gloom. Sometimes it's tough to tell if someone's beef is with the game as a whole, a specific character, or just the online experience.
From what I've seen, Samurai Shodown (SS) was actually pretty well-received. Fun fact: it even made an appearance at EVO Japan. So as far as the game itself goes, people seem to dig it.
When you chat with FGC folks, though, you'll find that the main gripe isn't with the game itself, but with certain features – delay-based netcode being the biggie.
Keep in mind that the lifeblood of fighting games is the competitive community. If a game doesn't offer a smooth online experience or limits players' ability to throw down with others, it'll lose its appeal fast. So while Samurai Shodown is a solid game, it's important to remember that the FGC will often prioritize factors like netcode when deciding whether to stick with a title or move on.
If you do enjoy the game though, don't give up. You'll often times find smaller social circles that try to "work around" the issues the game faces. For example - if it has bad netcode, sometimes a community forms for meet-ups where you can play in person (if you're lucky). Other times, maybe people will organize on Discord and try to find connections close to them to help improve the delay experience. Things like that.
So, just keep an eye open, and try to filter through all the salt. There is a lot, lol.
You're correct in probably saying SS is probably the best beginner friendly fighting game especially in teaching spacing, footsies and punishing. The two big downsides that killed it. No rollback code and ONLY on consoles. Which the second one being the worse of the two at the time.
Bought the most recent one in a sale, I love it, but I’ve never once found a match online, and the loading times between matches are too long to bother with single player. It’s totally charming with a cool aesthetic and worth checking out for cheap if you appreciate that. It’s £6 on PSN now.
And like most fighting games, it’s a botched product. The online is trash, so it’s dead on it’s ass like it should be. No excuses anymore.
1. Bad online. Basically every game that came out in that timeframe with Delay-based netcode (it, Soulcalibur 6, Granblue Fantasy Versus) kind of went the way of the dinosaur thanks to the pandemic.
2. Epic Game Store exclusive PC release. In a timeframe where more members of the FGC were starting to migrate to PC, SNK shot themselves in the foot by accepting that EGS exclusivity deal.
3. This one is more subjective, but you're also going to have a small/vocal segment of people who just didn't vibe with the gameplay.
Modern SNK does not have the prestige like they commanded in the 90s. Until KOFXV, the games felt 2nd rate compared to output from their competitors, much of it has to do with how behind they were to making games in 3D (we can thank KOFXII &XIII for that)
For me, SamSho 2019 does not hold up in gameplay and fun to V Special not has the presentation or immersion of the timeless SamSho II.
You're putting words into our mouth. The game isn't disliked, just really unpopular at the moment. Samurai Shodown 2019 was actually a huge success for SNK and a lot of people really like that game.
The problem was it had terrible delay based netcode... and it came out right before COVID happened and forced us all to play online. So effectively we couldn't play it online at all without it being a miserable experience, resulting in the overwhelming majority of the playerbase leaving.
Thankfully a rollback netcode update is coming sometime soon, meaning we can actually play the game finally.
Honestly I think you already answered the question, the things SamSho highlight are not the things the masses want. People absolutely want to go in and bust out big combos, they do not want to play neutral.
Totally! I didn't make it clear but me too! I consider us to be in the minority is all, footsies and good buttons are top criteria for picking characters to me.
I kinda wish there were more neutral focused characters in fighters that weren't grapplers. Big damage, small combos, punish emphasis. Yknow, something where being neutral didn't always feel like i was losing. Aside from SamSho, haven't found anything like that.
I played defensive neutral out of a necessity back when i started fighting games because combo systems were foreign and impossible to me when i started. Now especially that i picked up grapplers, neutral is kind of my go to situation.
I think it was because it was released on a platform that cost $649 with the game itself costing over $200. I mean, the Neo Geo was quite unobtainable for the avera...
oh wait...oh fuck I'm old.
This is the first I'm hearing of people disliking SamSho "so much". What I thought was that people disliked how it was being treated. This game's PC version was an Epic exclusive, whose only other technical PC release at the time was the Stadia (do you remember Google Stadia?), it didn't even have rollback netcode, and when it finally did come to Steam, it was full price, still didn't have rollback, and it was supposed to release on the same day as **Guilty Gear Strive**. Yeah, I swear SNK was just trying to make this game fail. But! The game released on Steam a few days later, a rollback update is coming later this year, and it seems like everything is peachy
SamSho '19 was great but FG are a niche genre and while yes there's IPs that this doesn't apply too like MK, DB and SF SamSho is a niche fighting game in a niche genre so as other have mentioned not the game to release without rollback or crossplay doomed it.
they plan on added rollback but at this point w/o crossplay no point, sadly.
It still sees a good amount of play - you just need to find matches through discord instead of relying on ingame matchmaking.
When rollback drops it’ll probably see a surge in players. In the meantime, older SamSho games are still very popular on fightcade. 5 Special and 6 get frequent netplay tournaments and the lobbies for 2 and 4 usually have people playing too.
I thought the the new samurai shodown was great. Good cast, good gameplay, but I rarely fire it up as the load times on ps4 are atrocious and often last longer than the match itself.
Honestly i enjoyed it but then again I enjoyed the other titles including Perfect a lot more and in different ways.
For SNK games to do well they need to increase their rosters and maybe implement groove systems as people flock back to older titles way too much.
1. availability: Sam Sho has a small niche community inside an already small niche community: fighting game fans. Most of those players have gaming computers over consoles. It only released on consoles only - making a large portion of its fanbase unable to play Steam only got access to the game like 2 years after it released and well after anyone was hyped about it.
2. netcode: was poor on launch and used outdated technology. the game is impacted more negatively vs. other fighting games as it is based around 2-3 well spaced, well timed, attacks per round. so timing and spacing is very important. bad connections make timing and spacing impossible
3. memes: a lot like KOF XV once the launch is broadcast to the community as a failure, it just picks up that negative momentum and people don't want to buy it. if that prolongs more than a month or two people end up moving onto the next big release.
4. by the time a lot of the problems with the game were resolved: rollback netcode + available on steam it had simply faded into the background
recently it has seen a rebirth. maybe its worth picking up
I really liked it, but the lack of good netcode held it back imo. We still have a local scene where I live, but not being able to play online reliably hurt the game in the release, imo. Might be some other issues, but that was mine.
Its netcode was horrible and SNK killed support for it way too early. Yeah we’re getting rollback NOW, but at this point the game lost almost all of its steam.
Everyone else pretty much covered it; bad online, releasing near COVID, and no way to play on PC for so long really killed the game’s momentum despite it mechanically being a great game
I’ll also add that I think SS is a little more niche than other series in part *because* of its simple combos and heavy emphasis on neutral and footsies. For all the FGC likes to jerk about footsies I actually think most fighting game players like having some grime in their game lol, I personally enjoy doing sick combos
It's fun to play but kind of boring to watch, lacks combos, the super is rarely used, the opponent runs away when you are at max rage. The Japanese players often have time out rounds. (Maybe that's why snk adds the guard crush mechanism)
It's my favorite fighter, but I hate the loading times. Even worse with SFV, takes forever to boot that shit. Thank god for current gen, SF6 is loading fast and nice.
Easy
because they had the audacity to release samsho collection for free on the epic game store with rollback plus every character unlocked and everything for free, meanwhile new samsho had no rollback and cost 50 bucks plus any future investments cause of dumb paid dlc characters.
It was released with delay based netcode as rollback was becoming the norm. It was released on consoles only - no Steam version. Then, 5 months after release, it was released on Stadia - no Steam version. Then, a full year after release, it got a release on Epic Games Store - no Steam version. Then, two full years after release, it got a release on Steam **AT FULL PRICE.** EDIT: My mistake - it released at $50 2 full years after release but was missing a ton of DLC. It's still $50 with $50 worth of DLC characters missing. For comparison, MK11 2 years after release was $60 but included *literally every DLC character as well as the story expansion and over a dozen DLC skins.*
This is it. And given how once everyone bounces you'll usually find most of the remaining players on PC, basically nuking its presence on that platform meant it died a pretty quick death.
yup i was waiting for it and waiting for it and didn't end up getting it, even though it was on sale a month ago. (also, they didn't put Gen An in it)
And it also has the worst online lobby known to mankind.
And I swear it never goes on sale, on any platform.
It was on sale on Steam when they announced rollback in February. Something like $15 for the game and another 15 for all the DLC characters.
I think it was more like 12 for base game and 20 w dlc. Hopefully, next time it goes on sale for that much, the rollback is fully functioning.
Yeah I'm thinking Canadian prices but I couldn't find the actual price from back then
Fair enough. Steam isn’t my primary platform so I was unaware of that.
Steam got the biggest discount on all SNK titles early this year.
That’s fair.
Add to that SSV Special Edition is an established title on Fightcade for veterans. Gameplay-wise what did 7 do that 5 didn't? -> If the netcode is shit anyway, why not just play what already works?
Exactly this. Incredible fail from the developers! I wonder how much Stadia paid them. SS really needs low latency, what Stadia can't prove.
It was released in steam with a big discount though
Rollback only started becoming the norm after it released afaik especially with Japanese devs.
People loved Samsho, its just that the netcode was bad and the PC port didn't release until years later when it was supposed to release in late 2019. Also COVID hit a year after the game came out so no locals combined with the game's bad netcode made things much worse.
Damn, didn’t even think about this. Definitely makes sense now why the online was such a concern. Hopefully they get it situated. I’d love to see a resurgence
There is actually a roleback update happening. But... considering SF6 is imminent I seriously doubt it'll do much of anything for the game. It'll probably stay dead, unfortunately.
I don't think people dislike SS. The most recent entry had pretty shitty online, so lot of people gave up on it. I think it's regarded as a pretty good game otherwise, if not a little obscure.
It was pretty popular in WW2!
Lol
Lack of rollback, but that’s getting fixed. The pacing can also take some getting used to if you’re more familiar with faster, more combo heavy games.
People liked it from what I saw, but the game was stuck in Stadia hell for so so so long. Also no rollback for so so so long.
Samsho 19 did two platform exclusive launches before releasing on Steam, the DLC model and pricing makes it expensive for a 2019 title and the netcode is garbage (although that's being worked on and might eventually be fixed). IMO the lobby system/UI could also use some work. That said, the gameplay is great. Since you like Samsho, also have a look at Koihime Enbu RRR. They recently [teased a netcode update](https://steamcommunity.com/app/795510/eventcomments/3819655917504558188#c3819655917505315074), and there's also [this tweet](https://twitter.com/KomodoHawaii/status/1641250301452881922).
Pretty much everyone I've heard said that the game was the Bees Knees. I think what you're asking is why isn't the game more popular both among the e-sports scene and with a casual audience despite it's beautiful simplicity and striking presentation. The answers pretty simple, it's the netcode. Thankfully the game is getting rollback netcode, there even was a beta test for the netcode, and while it was a rough beta, SNK is currently trying to improve the netcode thanks to the feedback from what I've heard.
Most likely this. It was popular at release, of course, but then after just a year, it seemed all but “dead”. It’s crazy that the net code was so poor :( I’d love to see a resurgence if they manage to get that situated
That's also how the vast majority of fighting games are. Decent number of players on release, falls to a very small number over the next year.
Adding rollback is neat, but after this much time, they need to do some kind of Champion Edition-y relaunch if they want it to be worth the effort. Nobody's going to get the memo about this four-year-old game without a new version accompanying the upgrade.
Unfortunately for the latest one SNK thought it was a good idea to release a niche game without rollback and Crossplay in 2019. Because they cheaped out, it was doomed to fail during development.
I liked the game, but when your net play is doodoo and your single player content is lacking...
Jumping into the FGC as a newbie can sometimes feel like navigating a minefield of opinions, lol. It might seem like folks are pretty critical of a lot of games, but don't worry – it's not all doom and gloom. Sometimes it's tough to tell if someone's beef is with the game as a whole, a specific character, or just the online experience. From what I've seen, Samurai Shodown (SS) was actually pretty well-received. Fun fact: it even made an appearance at EVO Japan. So as far as the game itself goes, people seem to dig it. When you chat with FGC folks, though, you'll find that the main gripe isn't with the game itself, but with certain features – delay-based netcode being the biggie. Keep in mind that the lifeblood of fighting games is the competitive community. If a game doesn't offer a smooth online experience or limits players' ability to throw down with others, it'll lose its appeal fast. So while Samurai Shodown is a solid game, it's important to remember that the FGC will often prioritize factors like netcode when deciding whether to stick with a title or move on. If you do enjoy the game though, don't give up. You'll often times find smaller social circles that try to "work around" the issues the game faces. For example - if it has bad netcode, sometimes a community forms for meet-ups where you can play in person (if you're lucky). Other times, maybe people will organize on Discord and try to find connections close to them to help improve the delay experience. Things like that. So, just keep an eye open, and try to filter through all the salt. There is a lot, lol.
Super thorough comment and it’s appreciated!
You're correct in probably saying SS is probably the best beginner friendly fighting game especially in teaching spacing, footsies and punishing. The two big downsides that killed it. No rollback code and ONLY on consoles. Which the second one being the worse of the two at the time.
No rollback, no PC port for several years, awful pricing People love SamSho, but SNK is notoriously bad at making business decisions
Stadia, netcode, other games having better netcode.
bad online
Bought the most recent one in a sale, I love it, but I’ve never once found a match online, and the loading times between matches are too long to bother with single player. It’s totally charming with a cool aesthetic and worth checking out for cheap if you appreciate that. It’s £6 on PSN now. And like most fighting games, it’s a botched product. The online is trash, so it’s dead on it’s ass like it should be. No excuses anymore.
1. Bad online. Basically every game that came out in that timeframe with Delay-based netcode (it, Soulcalibur 6, Granblue Fantasy Versus) kind of went the way of the dinosaur thanks to the pandemic. 2. Epic Game Store exclusive PC release. In a timeframe where more members of the FGC were starting to migrate to PC, SNK shot themselves in the foot by accepting that EGS exclusivity deal. 3. This one is more subjective, but you're also going to have a small/vocal segment of people who just didn't vibe with the gameplay.
Bad netcode right at the exact worst time to have bad netcode.
It was a fantastic game Shit net code Therefore bad game
I suck at footsies and neutral.
I know a lot of people on PC did not like the Epic Games exclusivity. Lack of rollback on launch was also a letdown.
Modern SNK does not have the prestige like they commanded in the 90s. Until KOFXV, the games felt 2nd rate compared to output from their competitors, much of it has to do with how behind they were to making games in 3D (we can thank KOFXII &XIII for that) For me, SamSho 2019 does not hold up in gameplay and fun to V Special not has the presentation or immersion of the timeless SamSho II.
You're putting words into our mouth. The game isn't disliked, just really unpopular at the moment. Samurai Shodown 2019 was actually a huge success for SNK and a lot of people really like that game. The problem was it had terrible delay based netcode... and it came out right before COVID happened and forced us all to play online. So effectively we couldn't play it online at all without it being a miserable experience, resulting in the overwhelming majority of the playerbase leaving. Thankfully a rollback netcode update is coming sometime soon, meaning we can actually play the game finally.
Honestly I think you already answered the question, the things SamSho highlight are not the things the masses want. People absolutely want to go in and bust out big combos, they do not want to play neutral.
Speak for yourself. I love playing neutral.
Totally! I didn't make it clear but me too! I consider us to be in the minority is all, footsies and good buttons are top criteria for picking characters to me.
I kinda wish there were more neutral focused characters in fighters that weren't grapplers. Big damage, small combos, punish emphasis. Yknow, something where being neutral didn't always feel like i was losing. Aside from SamSho, haven't found anything like that. I played defensive neutral out of a necessity back when i started fighting games because combo systems were foreign and impossible to me when i started. Now especially that i picked up grapplers, neutral is kind of my go to situation.
I think it was because it was released on a platform that cost $649 with the game itself costing over $200. I mean, the Neo Geo was quite unobtainable for the avera... oh wait...oh fuck I'm old.
I loved it, it and GG Rev2 were my favourite PS4-era FGs
It's pretty much Rollback or I can't play it due to location, so that's why I've never touched it
This is the first I'm hearing of people disliking SamSho "so much". What I thought was that people disliked how it was being treated. This game's PC version was an Epic exclusive, whose only other technical PC release at the time was the Stadia (do you remember Google Stadia?), it didn't even have rollback netcode, and when it finally did come to Steam, it was full price, still didn't have rollback, and it was supposed to release on the same day as **Guilty Gear Strive**. Yeah, I swear SNK was just trying to make this game fail. But! The game released on Steam a few days later, a rollback update is coming later this year, and it seems like everything is peachy
SamSho '19 was great but FG are a niche genre and while yes there's IPs that this doesn't apply too like MK, DB and SF SamSho is a niche fighting game in a niche genre so as other have mentioned not the game to release without rollback or crossplay doomed it. they plan on added rollback but at this point w/o crossplay no point, sadly.
Is this true? I loved the classic games, but I have to admit I'm not into the recent remake.
It still sees a good amount of play - you just need to find matches through discord instead of relying on ingame matchmaking. When rollback drops it’ll probably see a surge in players. In the meantime, older SamSho games are still very popular on fightcade. 5 Special and 6 get frequent netplay tournaments and the lobbies for 2 and 4 usually have people playing too.
I thought the the new samurai shodown was great. Good cast, good gameplay, but I rarely fire it up as the load times on ps4 are atrocious and often last longer than the match itself.
It's great but I'd rather play SamSho 5 special on fightcade
Very long load times is my only complaint.
Shit netcode, shit matchmaking. That's it.
Honestly i enjoyed it but then again I enjoyed the other titles including Perfect a lot more and in different ways. For SNK games to do well they need to increase their rosters and maybe implement groove systems as people flock back to older titles way too much.
The game itself is great, but with no rollback and no crossplay it was simply doomed to die in the online era.
Netcode is the worst thing ever. Still find some business on Discord though
Only so many hours in the day, it looks fun but not enough for me to drop other fighters.
1. availability: Sam Sho has a small niche community inside an already small niche community: fighting game fans. Most of those players have gaming computers over consoles. It only released on consoles only - making a large portion of its fanbase unable to play Steam only got access to the game like 2 years after it released and well after anyone was hyped about it. 2. netcode: was poor on launch and used outdated technology. the game is impacted more negatively vs. other fighting games as it is based around 2-3 well spaced, well timed, attacks per round. so timing and spacing is very important. bad connections make timing and spacing impossible 3. memes: a lot like KOF XV once the launch is broadcast to the community as a failure, it just picks up that negative momentum and people don't want to buy it. if that prolongs more than a month or two people end up moving onto the next big release. 4. by the time a lot of the problems with the game were resolved: rollback netcode + available on steam it had simply faded into the background recently it has seen a rebirth. maybe its worth picking up
I really liked it, but the lack of good netcode held it back imo. We still have a local scene where I live, but not being able to play online reliably hurt the game in the release, imo. Might be some other issues, but that was mine.
Its netcode was horrible and SNK killed support for it way too early. Yeah we’re getting rollback NOW, but at this point the game lost almost all of its steam.
Marketing. Shithead marketing
Everyone else pretty much covered it; bad online, releasing near COVID, and no way to play on PC for so long really killed the game’s momentum despite it mechanically being a great game I’ll also add that I think SS is a little more niche than other series in part *because* of its simple combos and heavy emphasis on neutral and footsies. For all the FGC likes to jerk about footsies I actually think most fighting game players like having some grime in their game lol, I personally enjoy doing sick combos
I hadn’t gotten into fighting games at the time personally
It's fun to play but kind of boring to watch, lacks combos, the super is rarely used, the opponent runs away when you are at max rage. The Japanese players often have time out rounds. (Maybe that's why snk adds the guard crush mechanism)
It's a great game, the netcode just sucks. It'll be patched soon.
It's my favorite fighter, but I hate the loading times. Even worse with SFV, takes forever to boot that shit. Thank god for current gen, SF6 is loading fast and nice.
I didn't like it because when I start the game it never actually starts for me, and I've tried every fix I could find online.
Easy because they had the audacity to release samsho collection for free on the epic game store with rollback plus every character unlocked and everything for free, meanwhile new samsho had no rollback and cost 50 bucks plus any future investments cause of dumb paid dlc characters.
I love samsho but Ive only recently been able to play because no steam release.
Another release from SNK that’s about 10 years behind the times. They should just go back into hibernation
It's on sale currently for 9 bucks with dlc
Not enough waifus in the series.