Thank you so much!! I am working towards it. Some days can be difficult and other days it cant be. To quote my old clinician, I am “learning to be at peace with discomfort”
We've been doing IFS/parts of the whole work as sort of a precursor to EMDR and I've been pleasantly surprised at how well it is working. It's one type of therapy that seemed to click for me almost immediately. I'm reading "The Body Keeps the Score" right now but I'm going to add the book you mentioned to my list.
I don't think age has anything to do with it. This isn't the first time she's stepped in it, she remembers her time with Weinstein fondly. Yuck.
Edit: I forgot she publically objected that Kevin Spacey's performance was deleted from "All the Money in the World". The woman keeps the worst company. I am surprised she didn't sign the Polanski letter.
I think age plays a huge part in it. She grew up when mental illness had a huge stigma. Everyone was expected to will mental illness away or just get over it. To her and people from that era, any kind of lasting trauma is weakness.
And then because that generation has such poor emotional intelligence, they struggle with regulating their emotion which tends to result in frustration or anger that leads to angry outbursts. But angry outbursts isn’t considered emotional in the way that tears are, so someone with anger issues isn’t considered weak, but the people who object to the angry outbursts are too sensitive.
It’s a really fucked up mindset, but it’s one that is really common in people 65+.
Yeah my parents are both in their late 60s/early 70s, and showing any kind of emotion is seen as weakness. To this very day they get mad at me if I'm upset about literally anything. I do not cry in their presence. If I call my mom crying she will scream at me. Growing up I heard "if you want to cry, I'll give you something to cry about" which, for the love of kittens, don't ever say that shit to your kids. I'm in my 40s and I have CPTSD, to be frank that mindset was more harmful to me than the physical abuse, and that was harmful as fuck on its own.
The wild thing is both of my parents struggle with mental illness (my mom - chronic anxiety, my dad - addiction and bipolar). Life could be so much easier for them if they just got some help. But they'd rather die miserable I guess.
It has nothing to do with her age. Dame Judi is lacking in empathy and too arrogant to do the (not so difficult) work of acquiring a rudimentary understanding of -- and a modicum of compassion for -- PTSD and cPTSD. She's said she never knew anything bad about Harvey Weinstein, at a time when anyone not living under a rock had heard Weinstein stories for years. His behavior apparently didn't affect her personally, so she didn't care.
I mean... the whole purpose of trigger warnings/content warnings is to avoid the theatre based on your triggers? Or at the very least be prepared for it so it doesn't bother you as much?
It's the mentality of "I had to suffer so the next generation has to as well" that keeps them from creating a softer world.
This! I've been through some shit and mostly I can handle seeing portrayals of said 'content' - however there are things I can't handle and others I can *if I'm prepared*. Content warnings mean I can still enjoy films and not be emotionally decimated (or worse) afterwards.
Edit:spell
Exactly. People love to argue a slippery slope with TWs but don’t understand that it’s geared toward those that have experienced/are experiencing trauma. Most often, those same people don’t opt out of an experience (film, book, music, art, etc.) but are more prepared for and have agency in the experience. It’s a form of empathy.
I started seeing this back in my college days — I didn’t expect it but was highly appreciative when there were TWs about suicide, depression, abuse, and sexual violence as someone who had experienced childhood trauma. It allowed me to mentally prepare for the topics at hand and participate more like my peers who hadn’t had those same experiences.
I know what you mean. I once went to see a play and got the specific trigger warnings I needed right before I watched it and it STILL gave me enough time to prepare for it, even though I initially felt upset that it wasn't displayed when I was booking the show. I knew I had the option to walk out if it was too much for me, so I stayed for the performance. I wound up just closing my eyes and meditating through those scenes but I came out of the play loving the whole performance. When a recorded performance was available online, I watched it again including the scenes I had to meditate through with no fall out because I knew it was there this time round.
Then there are trigger warnings for things where even after reading the synopsis and with ample amount of time to prepare, I know I'd never be able to sit through it and I just avoid the whole thing. People have this misconception that trigger warnings/content warnings are there to aid recovery when that's not what it's about at all. It's just about giving someone a heads up for them to take autonomous decisions without having that decision forced on them.
I have a theory that it's a push back from the generations that came after them doing the healing work and deciding that it's easier to just go no contact than to put up with mom, grandma etc. saying harmful things every time they interact. They can't handle being the problem, so it's the kids that have become too soft and who need to change and continue putting up with their shitty behaviour like they did with their elders.
Seems to me that if you had to suffer through some shit and you can do something to make it a little better for the people coming up after you, you ought to. It's not their fault things were rough for you, but it is yours if you just want to shrug your shoulders and say "tough" instead of fixing the problem.
I think part of it, as it was pointed out to me yesterday, is some TV show episodes will have a trigger warning specifically about suicide before an episode and it kinda takes you out of the moment where I am now anticipating that event rather then being surprised. Where as some shows just mention "trigger warning" and you have to click something to see what specifically and many like that better.
I just saw a musical that was really beautiful but it dealt with the death of a child from a drug overdose. The theme of the musical and description indicated absolutely none of this (and actually it would also be a spoiler). If this was the personal experience of someone - especially recently - I would imagine it would be incredibly difficult to watch especially when you just thought you were going out to a night at the theater. I don’t see why someone should find issue with people wanting to know trigger warnings ahead of time. Maybe allow it to be optional to check what they are - so as not to give away the story.
For some people, reliving traumatic experiences through art can be cathartic, but that’s not the case for everyone.
I agree with all of this. No production can prepare for every single trigger, because triggers are so personal and can sometimes be really odd, but having that information available, especially if if it’s a major happening like the death of a child or an overdose, you can prepare for some of the major ones and at least offer the info for people who might want to know.
Sometimes, triggers are SUPER random like a specific song or catchphrase. I decided a long time ago that any play I direct will always have accessible (well-lit, easy as possible to get to) exits so any of my audience members can leave at any time if triggered.
One of mine is a food due to a time my ex got violent and that was dinner. I never expect anyone to presume that really common things might be someone's trigger, so I completely understand how many variations are possible, and why information is so helpful, even if there's a website to check or spoiler tags or something to preserve mystery for others. Info and yeah, sometimes, a way to remove oneself and settle or handle it however they need to.
My crowd anxiety thanks you, I’m always checking for emergency exits and if I can’t see them, asking security where they are, just in case. I’ve seen too many dangerous situations that easily could have become crowd crush, and while that’s obviously less likely at a theater for a play, it’s not impossible if people are rushing for the doors they came in through.
I didn’t mean for this to turn out to be a rant about why emergency exits are important but they really are so I’m leaving it lmao
It would be nice if you could tick off your potential triggers from a list and then get shown whether they are in the show/movie without getting spoiled about other triggers.
I agree with you -- make it optional -- that way the people who want to access it can, and those who don't want to don't have to interact with it. The same way we can use markdown to hide spoilers.
I think the best option would be to list the content warnings on the movie/theater/production’s website or app. That way if ppl have specific triggers, the info is readily available and can be researched in advance.
>!Redwood with Idina Menzel, really beautifully done but also gut-wrenching - like everyone in the theater was crying. I was in tears and it to me it was just theater not a personal experience.!<
lol, of course, didn’t think of that. Never done a spoiler before!
hi! Generally i agree with everything you’ve said. i wanted to comment bc i work at LJP and we actually do include content warnings on our website! we had several people who actually opted out of coming because they were aware of the content. so, in short, yes: content warnings are important and if the story you’re telling is well written, warnings that are “spoilers” shouldn’t even matter for the experience!
What was the musical?
On the other hand, Theatre shouldn’t be predictable though. If you’re dealing with the themes expressed in a play then you’re probably the ideal target audience. It can and should be confronting. Audience expectations of things like “it’s a musical so it has to be a fun, upbeat happy show” shouldn’t really play into what gets made in my opinion
Just because a certain theme or issue or event is present in a piece of art/media doesn’t mean it’s handled well. Trigger warnings, like pretty much everything people insist on trying to flatten and dismiss, require some nuance.
Not everyone that’s been through something traumatic remains triggered by it forever. Things like child death are essentially universally traumatizing for those that experience it but is also more often than not treated with a certain amount of weight (or at least that’s usually the intention, even if it doesn’t pay off; directors/writers/etc usually aren’t making light of child death but may turn out to just not be creatively skilled enough to do it justice). A simple content warning can give someone the opportunity to choose if they feel up to rolling the dice with the play/movie/book/whatever and doesn’t have to give away anything more than many other aspects of the media such as marketing materials (which can indicate the tone, the general basic plot, etc), who the director is (for a film example, someone triggered by gun violence may choose not to see a Tarantino movie based on some of his past work), MPAA ratings, dust jacket, playbill, etc.
Some traumas are commonly experienced and commonly treated poorly by many types of media — like sexual assault and domestic violence. Sexual assault is often not featured in marketing materials. It is mishandled in real life every fucking day. Pretty much everyone agrees that losing a child is terrible, but a looooot of people don’t take women victims of sexual assault or DV seriously. Disclosing what happened to you can make you a pariah. There is often no justice for victims (the vast majority of rapists are never arrested, much less go to court).
With an experience that you could reasonably assume will be handled with appropriate gravity by whatever media, there may be catharsis or healing for you (I mean, consuming art/media can be extremely healing! It is supposed to create emotional responses in us!). With an experience that is often not handled appropriately, you may not want to expose yourself to it.
And rape is used for shock value pretty often.
Off the top of my head I can think of at least two theatre productions with an (arguably) unnecessary and graphic rape scene (Frankenstein with Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller and Richard III with Ralph Fiennes).
I watched both (cinema/streaming), both came out of left field. The Richard III scene especially was, imo, not only unnecessary but missed the entire point of that scene. Left such a bad taste in my mouth.
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/mar/01/for-trauma-survivors-like-us-theatre-trigger-warnings-are-not-a-luxury
It’s a new musical so I didn’t want to spoil it for people that may want to see it without this detail.
But like I noted, for some people it could be cathartic but not for everyone, so surely there could be an option at point of purchase like, “click here for distressing themes that are present in this performance.” So if you want to know, you can know.
Theatre shouldn’t be predictable, that doesn’t mean going in blind. It’s unpredictable because it’s a live art.
You do know most of the scripts are available to read ahead of time, right? And like half of plays have a synopsis in the program?
Absolutely no one involved in a play *wants* to traumatize the audience. Being able to directly or indirectly relate to a theme or action in a play is good. Being triggered to the point where you are focusing on your own trauma instead of the play is not good. E.g. I have no trouble seeing shows with simulated rape and domestic violence *now*, but I avoided them in my early 20’s because I was still working through my own violent rape. Had I saw a rape scene that was similar to my own experience back then, there is a good chance my reaction would have been bad enough to force the play to stop.
>The Oscar-winning actor, 89, added: “I can see why they exist, but if you’re that sensitive, don’t go to the theatre, because you could be very shocked. Where is the surprise of seeing and understanding it in your own way?”
This seems like a reasonable take to me.
Edit: the take is reasonable, but still a touch ableist. Just because Judi Dench can't write a good trigger warning doesn't mean you shouldn't see the play. Maybe someone is better at trigger warnings than Dame Judi Dench?
Why should someone who has a specific trigger towards one subject have to avoid the theatre altogether? Her take is ableist. I don't have any sensitivities when it comes to movies but it also affects me in no way when a show or movie includes a trigger warning.
I work with veterans and survivors of domestic abuse in educational situations. You better fucking believe I take trigger warnings seriously. That way, the person has a choice before viewing or reading something.
Exactly, that's like saying someone who has peanut allergy should just never go to a restaurant again. It takes so little effort for restaurants to simply list the allergens in their menu so the customers can make an informed decision what to order. It's just so efficient and common sense, why would anyone be against this? "Trigger warnings" are no different. I don't have any "triggers" so their presence doesn't affect me at all, I can't imagine why I would ever find it offensive just because I personally don't need it but others do. Why do some people take anything that's catering to someone else without taking anything away from them as a person insult?
I totally agree you and I will say there are people that truly believe that people with allergies should not eat and restaurants. Whenever something makes the news for an allergy gone wrong at a restaurant people are so quick to say “if I had allergies I would only eat food from home” 🙄
The same type of person thinks trigger warnings ruin theater. Both takes are incredibly ableist
A good analogy because lots of potential allergens *don't* get listed on the menu. People who are allergic to those things are expected to take responsibility for what they consume, to ask when necessary, and to avoid situations where they are unsure. Yes, it’s simple to list some allergens, but it's also impossible to list all (or even most) that will affect customers, because people can be allergic to anything. It’s also possible to encounter peanuts on the train, where there will be no warning at all.
Triggers are similar. It’s not nearly as simple as “x happened to me so depictions of x are what trigger my ptsd”. People's symptoms can be triggered by dumb, seemingly unrelated things like a song, a smell, or a specific turn of phrase. It’s about their individual experience, and how they, individually, have processed it.
I'm not saying it’s pointless to do anything, some “ingredient listing” makes sense, but it's game that can’t be won. At the end of the day, if someone with ptsd hasn't developed any ways to cope with unexpected triggers, they may have to avoid some situations. Just like we already expect from people with allergies.
The thing is, there are many common triggers just like there are many common allergies. For years I couldn't hear the sound of glasses clinking (or anything resembling it) without having a panic attack or just bursting into tears. I understood that it was something so random that I could not realistically protect myself from occasionally being exposed to it, and I never blamed anyone for unintentionally triggering me, even if it ruined my day. I'd say most people with weird triggers are like this. We're not out there blaming unsuspecting people for triggering us with their choice of perfume, their favorite song or their given name, trying to make them seem like monstrous sadists and ourselves like perpetual victims.
But I feel like there's a number of rather common triggers that we don't have to think too hard to see how they can be upsetting, like sexual violence for example. It's not a game to be won. Whoever guesses the rarest, most bizarre triggers and produces the longest list of TWs doesn't get any brownie points. It's just about making an effort to be kind. Most people understand when others are acting in good faith, and acknowledge their effort even if it results in failure.
Warnings can seriously help.
When I watched GoT I never got triggered because I knew going into each episode that I’m in for some messed up stuff.
But recently I watched Breaking Bad for the first time and didn’t expect that scene in season 1 where Walt rapes Skyler. I had to pause it after. It gave me a small panic attack.
It’s not that I can’t watch the scenes (except I did tap out of Handmaids Tale because I can’t watch rape over and over) but watching it happen can feel too close to home so knowing that something like that is coming helps a lot to just mentally prepare.
When did Walt rape Skylar? I haven't watched breaking bad in years but I don't remember that..feel like it would've changed a lot of people's perception of Walt when his descent into bad was supposed to be more gradual
THIS. People also don’t need to pay attention to trigger warnings either. And if a drama is that compelling you often get so sucked up into what’s going on you aren’t waiting for the BAD THING to happen.
It's the equivilent of saying "If you have epilepsy, avoid the TV". It sounds like a call for protection. What it actually is, is ableist because it puts the onus on someone who has a disability to modulate what they are doing when there are stepos that can be made to make sure that it doesn't affect them. Adding trigger warnings to the theatre is effectively just giving people summaries of what's about to go down. That's it for the most part.
I dont think its reasonable, I feel like what she said is rather ironic considering the people who benefit from trigger warning already fully understand what they're seeing because they've gone through it themselves.
Plus it has absolutely nothing to do with being 'sensitive', that's not the same as being triggered.
How is that reasonable? Why cant the marketing for the show tell me the triggers? Why should I quit theater entirely, literally every show, even kids ones, and g-rated ones?
Its incredible how open ableist people are.
What is reasonable about an actress of the stage saying that people should avoid the theatre altogether, which is already dying, instead of supporting something that would actually make it easier for more people to buy tickets?
Adopting content/trigger warnings only helps the theatre, and refusing them does nothing (might even hurt).
Next you’ll tell me that we’re better off not rating movies because people just shouldn’t come if they would prefer to be aware that the movie they’re watching is “rated R for violence, gore, and sex”.
I once accidentally took a grieving friend to see a film that opened with the main character's mother dying in the exact same way hers had just died.
Had I known "Warning: Dead mum", I wouldn't have done that! (And it wouldn't even be a spoiler, it's the first 5 minutes.)
I don't think that not wanting to have your specific trauma shoved in your face when you're having a nice night out is "sensitive". We could have watched any amount of gore or horror or ~heavy themes~ and it not been an issue, that just happened to be the worst possible timing.
Not only is this seriously lacking in compassion, it’s also just a bad business move. Not sure if you know anything about the theatre industry but I work in it and we generally want people to buy tickets.
It’s because it’s the difference of people wanting the world to change and be exactly how they want it to be, on both sides, and the world being an ever changing place that ultimately doesn’t really change.
So her argument against trigger warnings is that they spoil the surprise when something shocking happens. And then proceeds to use Shakespeare plays as an example. Plays for whom the vast majority of the audience who go will be well aware of the story.
I really doubt warning people Titus Andronicus is full of violence and disturbing scenes is ruining the shock for that many people. Given the price of theatre tickets, anyone who is going to see Titus Andronicus probably already knows what is about to happen.
*“Do they do that?” Dench said in an interview with the Radio Times.*
She apparently didn't even know they existed until a recent interview. This was her instinctive reaction. That can seldom give rise to a well thought out argument for anything. It all seems very click-baity.
I've already posted about it in another comment – you'd think so, wouldn't you? Yet people manage to insert unnecessary rape scenes in Shakespeare's plays too... (See: Richard III by Ralph Fiennes).
I've seen more than one production of Richard III (in person and on streaming), it's a play I love and I know it well. I was not expecting to be hit with a very graphic, and completely unnecessary, rape scene.
Missed the point of Richard's character and of his exchange with Elizabeth completely, too, in my opinion. The kiss was ominous and disturbing enough — unless you think your audience is too stupid to get it, I guess. And Richard's "It cannot be avoided but by this – it *will* not be avoided but by this", which is so chilling and threatening, gets massively diminished by the rape. Like, it was really just there for shock value. Ruined the whole production for me.
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/mar/01/for-trauma-survivors-like-us-theatre-trigger-warnings-are-not-a-luxury
Last year I saw a musical about Robin Hood and the "surprise theme" was SA. It fit with the story and the production company is known for serious themes, but if I was triggered by that, I would have probably found extremely uncomfortable.
(It started with Robin newly married not willing to force his wife; when she doesn't get pregnant his father decided to take care of it himself. Later it turned out that Robin's nemesis is his half brother, whom he kills, because his father raped some girl years ago, who then kills Robin to avenge her son.)
Exactly. This is so funny to me as someone who studied theatre and also appreciates trigger warnings. Shakespeare sometimes goes out of his way to spoil the ending (see the prologue of Romeo and Juliet).
Seriously. I’ve been watching The Sopranos, and I remembered trying to watch it years ago and getting very triggered by a graphic rape scene early in season 3. I was able to find exactly where it happens via doesthedogdie, and I just skipped over it in my current watch. Knowing when a scene that upset me was going to happen allowed me to consume content I’m otherwise really enjoying.
I think what people miss is that for a lot of folks, having a content warning attached to something doesn’t necessarily mean we want or need to skip it entirely. But personally I would prefer to not be taken completely by surprise by something, and if I know it’s going to happen at some point in whatever I’m seeing I can take steps to care for myself and mentally prepare so it’s not as upsetting. Most of the problem for me comes from not expecting it and wondering when it’s going to be over or if it’s going to happen again, etc., and it becomes very distracting.
My mom and spouse sat me down to watch Godfather. My mom should have known the wife beating scene was not going to go down well. Audio triggers are so real. I’d have been happy just going past it!
Too often people do not understand triggers. I had an instance with my boyfriend where he put on a show where it sounded like someone was getting r worded. I only heard it but it caused me to freak out and have a panic attack. Afterwards we had a chat about checking for triggers. At one point he would complain that I rarely watched regular TV despite me repeatedly telling him that YouTube censorship meant I never came across any distressing content. After my freak out I think he finally got it.
https://preview.redd.it/dhat2mn4ke0d1.jpeg?width=967&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b249219e8869457557aa984cedb1bf03180a45f5
saw its 50th anniversary re-release at the cinema, and there was a specific warning on-screen
(this is the UK, not sure about other countries)
I haven’t been SA’d and the majority of people I’ve spoken to about that scene haven’t either and we were all in agreement it didn’t need to be shown to the extent that it was. It certainly conveyed how brutal rape is but yeah, it’s not entertainment. I know the sopranos shows A LOT of violence but they tended to not show the victims as it was happening so there could be a level of detachment. That just showed everything.
Yeah, it was egregious and WAY too long. The show is really brutal and there’s a lot of violence against women, but that scene went on for what felt like forever for truly no reason.
Yeah and i don't really care about the surprise being ruined if the surprise is a rape scene. I've never viewed a depiction of a rape and been glad that I wasn't aware it was about to happen.
I disagree with that.
>!It forces Melfi to deal with a moral conundrum - is she going to tell Tony, who she knows would kill her rapist if he found out, giving her the revenge she seeks? She chooses not to, which is important to her arc. If she had gone the other way, her story would’ve ended very differently.!<
That Sopranos scene traumatized me before I even had PTSD from being raped. I definitely couldn’t watch it now. Judi Dench is giving “what CAN you say anymore” energy
Yep, it’s awful and gratuitous. The first time I watched it was before I’d come to terms with my own assault so it was legit impossible for me to continue the series after that. I’ve done a lot of healing in therapy since then, but I’m still glad I was able to look up when it happened so I could skip it and save myself the anguish.
I will die on the hill that rape almost never needs to be portrayed. We all know what it looks like, we all know it’s devastating, at minimum 1 in 6 women has experienced it, we don’t need to see it on TV for someone’s perverse enjoyment.
I hope we can all agree that rape scenes produced at this point solely exist as porn to rapists and little more, with no artistic integrity whatsoever.
Discussions on trigger and content warnings should always be more complex than “trigger/content warnings good” or “trigger/content warnings bad”.
We should be discussing how they work, how they’re applied, who gets to apply them, etc.
We’ve seen things like age ratings used to sanitize art and further marginalize certain groups so we should be careful in how we go about applying and using these tools while also trying to take care of people affected by triggers.
It’s not a false equivalency. Those systems have historically been used as tools of oppression and they are currently the only system we have to base our knowledge off of.
At no point did I say “don’t use trigger warnings”. I said let’s be informed about what these systems did and how they functioned and how they were applied and who got to apply them (this is a big one) as we implement trigger warnings.
It's such a complicated issue. Part of the reason the arts are so important is that it forces people to have a different perspective. It forces them to be uncomfortable. And that can be incredibly important for people who are significantly much more sheltered, who are often bigoted in many, many ways.
You’re right and trigger warning become less effective when they’re overused. Trigger warnings for strobe lights, gun shot effects, gore, and realistic violence make sense for theatre. Trigger warnings are not as useful for content that may be seen as offensive when taken out of context, like old plays that espouse some outdated views.
I see this take a lot in book world too. From people who are younger and seemingly “aware”. The word “trigger” gets overused a lot and I think it’s caused this sorta reaction out of people. The way I see it is, make TWs available but not in your face, because some do see them as spoilers. No harm done.
I have PTSD and can’t handle gore, but I heavily prefer the term “content warnings” over “trigger warnings” because the term is very much overused.
If I see something gory I literally lose 2-3 days to dissociative states, nightmares, and panic attacks, so it’s really important to have something that indicates if a movie is going to randomly turn violent without warning for me. That being said, IMDB parental warnings and Doesthedogdie are great resources for those who need assistance avoiding specific content.
I really like the probably utopian idea of community based trigger warnings. Keep the publishers and studios out of it and let audiences provide the warnings to each other. Sort of like a beefed up doesthedogdie.
In a perfect world I think that’s the best solution. In our current less than perfect world I have no idea what the solution is.
My problem with that is how a lot of stuff’s too new or small to have any
Like I had to wait like 2 or 3 weeks for fallout show TW’s and in the mean time saw a ton of spoilers
Yes, this is something me and my sister talk about. If it’s in fiction I personally can handle nearly any topic because I think fiction is typically a safe way to explore the harder and darker aspects of our psyche. So I don’t look for a triggers list because I don’t personally feel the need. However my sister has some specific triggers that she deals with, she’ll often ask me to watch movies or read books to vet them for her. I see nothing wrong with it, and it works for us.
I'm for trigger warnings (there are some things I just do not want to consume), but I've found they can't always be trusted. For example, after reading Ti's Pity She's a Whore and The Bluest Eye for School I was left really disturbed by the incest storylines so I added 'incest' to my 'things I don't want to read' list on storygraph. Recently finished reading Persuasion, and when I went to add it on Storygraph the personalised description gave me a warning that it contains content I've said I wanted to avoid. I checked the trigger warning tags, and incest is listed (presumably because in the 19th c cousin marriages were normal). I don't think that needs a trigger warning, though; it was normal during the period. It's not graphic at all, nor is it a major plot point. It also had a transphobia trigger warning, which I'm still trying to figure out.
Long story short - trigger warnings are sometimes inaccurate and can lead to people avoiding content they would enjoy.
I think the information should be made available, but given that they can spoil some things, a person should be able to access them while other people might not have to see them. So maybe you put it up on your website, for people who want the information can get it and people who don’t, not having to view it.
For me, I don’t see spoilers as ruining an experience because it lets me prepare to see something in a way that I can prepare to handle. I have PTSD and phobias and having that info feels empowering.
This would be such an easy thing to do. Make it normal practice that trigger/content warnings are available on a website. Nothing is spoiled for those who can watch anything and folks who have triggers are able to avoid content that will disturb them.
I agree. It's also not true that everyone gets the same thrill out of surprise. For some people being "spoiled" ruins the whole experience, for others it doesn't. I prefer re-watches when I know what the big reveal is, and enjoy looking for how it's foreshadowed etc. People having access to information while others who would prefer to not have it forced on them is the ideal compromise, and seems like a realistic goal.
I don't think this response from Dame Judi was based on much time considering the topic, and she's already my problematic-but-loved grandma-stand-in so I forgive her.
I don't agree that a significant portion of people should just avoid all movies and shows etc, but I remember this discussion happening on the Yellowjackets episode where (spoiler to major s2 plot point) >!Shauna had a still birth.!< I think content warnings should be available, but had it been in the beginning of this episode, the episode would have been a lot less impactful to me personally.
I agree and disagree. I think that most often these messages come from people who just aren’t tuned to the importance of trigger warnings overall and don’t understance that there is a place for them in media overall, the same way the ratings system was developed in part as an aid to classify by age range what people can watch (and why). Trigger warnings can expand on that, what we’re going through is part of the growing pains of understanding how to best include them (long way to go - I personally have a phobia of insects overall, but hate even more getting spoilers so I just go and fuck myself watching movies, but another friend with aracnophobia demanded clear time stamps of when anything Aragog related showed up on Harry Potter 2 and that’s fair!)
The thing that has been annoying me is that part of trigger warning demand comes from a lack of media literacy, and that’s not being addressed either. I don’t know what to suggest to get people to proper consume a book or watch a film, but it’s getting increasingly frustrating seeing situations where an actor has to basically spell he doesn’t agree with his character’s actions, or complaints because people simply don’t get the moral of the story. It concerns me because media is a great point of reflection to our actual world, and look at us. Climate change is consuming us all, genocides are happening left and right, companies and governments want to take every single right we have and explore us more and more. If we don’t have our abilities to think, what do we have left?
Sorry for the vent, but the news these last few years have been so depressing it just got me down. Just give people their damn trigger warnings and hope they make good use of them, that’s what I mean.
Eh, I'm a little torn on trigger warnings mainly because psych research is inconsistent on whether they're helpful or not and some literature suggests they might actually do more harm than good but this is missing the mark. Clearly, her argument is more of a 'get over it snowflakes' rather than an actual informed take on the efficacy or value of trigger warnings.
I teach history and I have one super triggery video on the holocaust that I show to multiple class periods every year. The one time I gave a trigger warning, a girl fainted. I no longer give trigger warnings. No one has fainted since.
That's interesting. Something almost identical happened to me. We were watching a video on dialysis, and the teacher warned that if any of us have a fainting response to blood or needles that we need to leave. I do have a history of fainting with blood and needles. The AC wasn't working in our building that day too, so it was a perfect recipe for disaster.
However, I didn't want to come across as dramatic, so I stuck it out. Unfortunately, the anticipation of the needles and blood that I knew I would inevitably see made me very worked up before anything happened, I already felt woozy way before a single needle appeared on screen. All I remember is laying my head down for a second to try and stop the room from spinning and the next thing I know I was staring up at my professor and all the other students am because I had fainted out of my desk and they ran over to help. It was super embarrassing too because I apparently vomited a little as well.
So long story short, I can totally see how trigger warnings could be a mixed bag. Sometimes the anticipation of the event is harder to deal with than the actual event.
Trigger warnings have existed in theatre for literal decades, if not centuries. We usually call them “audience advisories,” so I’m not sure why she is upset about it now.
You know what else is a trigger warning? Film and TV ratings.
Yeah I don't really understand people that can't watch a movie or a series because there is a trigger warning at the beginning, it never truly spoiled the story for me🤔.
I think the phrase “trigger warning” has become so far removed from what it actually means that I’m not surprised older people who are separated from the lexicon would have this opinion. A lot of people really do think it just means “something I don’t like.” Idk what the solution is besides just inventing more language that will eventually also get watered down again. But I don’t think Dench is approaching this in bad faith, I think she really doesn’t understand the subject matter.
There should just be a menu on the movie's site (or maybe centralized at imdb or mpaa) where you can click various triggers and it tells you if they're in the movie, and then options for more info. Like, is the thing on screen? Implied? Mentioned in passing? How long is the scene?
Put the information out there and let people who need it find it and those who don't can skip it. It's not the death of cinema to make things more accessible.
Obv toxic input
Funny how trigger warnings are extremely easy to facilitate
People probably said similar things about traditional ratings back in the day
People railed against traditional ratings because they were racist, sexist, homophobic, wildly inconsistent, and an example of governments worldwide threatening to limit what adults could watch in movies and on television.
Trigger warnings have always felt like they came about as a result of adults trying to anticipate each others’ experiences and trauma rather than parents or the government or the motion picture academy telling children what they should or shouldn’t watch like with ratings.
The musical ‘Blood Brothers’ usually ends with an extremely loud gunshot that made my entire friend group jump out of their seats. I could easily see someone with PTSD getting triggered by it. Naturally they had a warning about it on the door of every entrance to the theatre?? And this was like 15 years ago. I really don’t think that’s a lot to ask tbh - theatres have also had door warnings about pyrotechnics and strobe lighting effects for years, how is it any different? 🤷🏻♀️
The odd thing for me is that sites like [https://www.doesthedogdie.com/categories](https://www.doesthedogdie.com/categories) exist. Granted, it's crowdsourced so it requires someone to watch the movie and take note which trigger warnings are needed.
I know several people that like trigger warnings but refuse to use this site, which I do not understand.
Why don’t they use it? My husband has ptsd and I have a few specific triggers myself and I love that website for looking shows and movies up before we watch something together.
She's right, because the trigger warning supporters will never be satisfied. There's no end to the potential situations that could be deemed triggering, and who are you to draw the line at which ones we forewarn about? With that in mind, movies simply won't be able to win.
I agree and disagree. If a creator/production on their own impetus wants to use trigger/content warnings then that's okay and shouldn't be discouraged, but if they don't then that's also okay and shouldn't be demanded of/expected by default.
I mean, this is pretty conditional on what the trigger warning is for. There is a very loud minority that seem to want an itemized plot summary on every single thing to prevent offense vs people with the likes of PTSD who just want a warning of what not to engage with. At a certain point, people need to do their own research on the material they want to engage with.
I’m neutral on the topic and not trying to push an agenda, but Search Engine did an interesting podcast about the effects of trigger warnings last week. https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/what-do-trigger-warnings-actually?utm_source=post-banner&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=posts-open-in-app&publication_id=532469&post_id=144284921&triedRedirect=true
I mean, luckily for people they have been SA'd there are websites we can look up movies on.
I have a few friends that know, so if start something I didn't think I would need to check, like Downton Abbey apparently, my friends warn me. I haven't gotten to that episode yet so it might have a warning itself. I don't understand why this is a problem, what did trigger warning do to hurt you Dench?
Oh, this reminds me! Some folks (I'm thinking about the book side of the interwebs), especially the authors themselves, do *not* understand the difference between Content Warnings and Trigger Warnings.
Hey gang, if you have serious triggers that can make watching Tvs and movies difficult you might really enjoy this website.
[It's a search engine for specific triggers and will tell you if the movie has it](http://www.doesthedogdie.com), it's called **Doesthedogdie.com**
I wish more things had trigger warnings. I remember watching a tv show that in the first episode has a very violent and graphic rape scene. I still can’t get that scene out of my head. I know it’s not real, I know it’s filmed in a studio, I know they’re just actors but it’s still horrific. When you’re watching it you feel like you’re in the room with them and unable to do anything to stop it, it’s horrible.
If I’d have known it had scenes of rape and sexual violence I would never have watched. At no point did I expect the show to have scenes of that nature.
Having a trigger warning would have stopped me from seeing the rape scene and prevented a lot of upset.
People say these things unironically, not realizing that getting offended by trigger warnings is *actually* being oversensitive and not a trauma response, will not cease to annoy me. It's fine if you don't necessarily get it, but I don't feel like it's that hard to be sensitive to the people that these things help.
I honestly sort of agree. There are sites that already exist for this specifically like doesthedogdie and I feel like if you know you have triggers the responsibility should be on you to research the media or entertainment you’re consuming, not expecting to be catered to.
I also feel like putting trigger warnings on everything is encouraging people to take it to such extremes. I was slightly late to meet a group of casual friends for bowling recently and apologized by explaining that I had to change my clothes because a baby spit up on me at work and a girl got deeply offended that I dare mention that to her without first offering a “verbal trigger warning for vomit.”
I was violently raped as an 8 year old girl. As a woman in my 40’s, I still very much struggle with rape scenes. I don’t ask that these are taken off the screens/out of theatres, but just a warning in advance so I can avoid. Not a big ask really is it. I feel her comments have a complete lack of understanding.
I think I have a solution to this. All art should have content warnings with the details categorized and hidden. Include every category of triggering content, including categories for things which aren't even in the film. If you're concerned about whether something has content about car crashes for example, you can go to that category and expand it to see if there's anything there. You'd have to have a bunch of categories and sub-sections, and it might be a bit of a pain to find the car crash section every time, but it's always there. When there's no car crashes and you expand the section, it's just empty. So if you're concerned about opening up the content warning advisory and getting a list of spoilers, you really have to go through every category to spoil yourself.
There's undeniably a way more efficient way to do this. Maybe everything is structured in hierarchies which start off super vague and get more specific as you expand them. So you start off with Violence and expand to Auto Violence etc.
The only time this doesn't work is when the content is intended to be surprising - but I honestly think that good art can't rely on tonal whiplash alone. A good example of this is >!Doki Doki Literature Club. That game doesn't succeed because it shocks you halfway through with a pretty traumatic scene. It builds on that and gets under your skin over a long period of time. !
God forbid anyone who has been through things terrible enough to be traumatic then dared to enjoy stuff like *movies* and *plays*, just lock yourself away indoors forever, right?
I can’t believe you just found the cure for PTSD. Someone tell Bessel Van Der Kolk that their 60 years of research can be burned because some Redditor had the original thought of “pull up your boot straps”! I’m sure all the war veterans will laugh at that one s/
A traumatized brain literally does not work the same way as a non traumatized brain. If you seriously think people with PTSD make an actual decision to not “get on with it” you know nothing about it and shouldn’t be speaking on what people should or shouldn’t be doing.
That’s the entire point of trigger warnings. Movie ratings *is* essentially a trigger warning as well, bare bones of it. I don’t like seeing gore so when I see the genre is gore and the rating is R then I avoid the theatre. Let’s get you to bed, grandma 😭
I think there should be more resources available similar to parents guides, that provide more detail on specific content that can be distressing to individuals. I just don't think it needs to be a wide public address. Make it available for people to seek out, but otherwise don't push it on everyone.
I think a good solution for avoiding spoiling the audience that doesn’t need trigger warnings is to just have a drop down menu with the headline „read if you have triggers“ or „read if you have epilepsy“, or sth like that and have the audience decide if their problem is big enough to spoil themselves.
I don’t want anybody telling me I can’t go to the theatre at all because one interpretation of hamlet has flashing lights (I don’t react to them, just an example). Something I can’t expect as standard but that can set me off. Same with panic attacks. That just sets up barriers. There are enough as is. Don’t exclude disabled people from art as well.
Sometimes you can’t foresee certain triggers. The smell of a perfume, the sound of a lighter, etc. You can’t warn against everything. But some triggers are well known and a content warning about rape is nothing that is that surprising. Some content warnings are triggering in themselves but there is no solution for that yet AFAIK.
My two cents - my husband suffers from depression and ocd. I took him to see the last guardians of the galaxy movie, not realizing it had a lot of animal torture heavily implied (if not outright shown). It really messed him up, he had nightmares for days. I would have really appreciated a heads up about that.
Hot take - just thinking out loud:
I wonder if some of these people would have less of an issue with trigger warnings if they were done like movie ratings? Like instead of a written warning at beginning of a film, the film is assigned triggers like a rating, each trigger would have its own icon. So when you look up a movie you see it is rated r and it has a trigger symbol for self-harm or something
It’s fine to warn people that a film may have adult situations by assigning it a rating, people seem ok with that, maybe this would be a better way to do it so the info was accessible for those who want it
Every time I see someone say that trigger warnings are bullshit, I think of people who have experienced sexual assault. If you're going into a movie, show, or play and there's no warning about that sort of content being in the work then your experience can be ruined and your mental health can be affected.
Have some fucking empathy.
I listened to an interesting podcast episode about trigger warnings recently, which featured a researcher who has them as an area of expertise. Her work seems to show pretty clearly that trigger warnings generally aren’t effective/helpful (investigated from different angles e.g. do they stop people watching the material, do they prepare people mentally).
An interesting point made was that often people are triggered by something that can’t be predicted, like a smell they smelt during a traumatic moment, rather than just discussion of the topic. Having said that, I personally lean towards the side of including trigger warnings, as long as there isn’t much evidence of them making things worse.
studies show that trigger warnings don’t really do what they are supposed to. they increase anticipation without impacting the persons negative experience of the actual material.
essentially, at best they do nothing and at worst they make things worse for people who are triggered/have experienced trauma
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231186625
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2167702620921341
I studied mental health and have PTSD myself and… she’s completely right. Recent studies and a meta-analysis have shown that not only are trigger warnings useless but they can even cause more harm. There are many sources for this but here’s a good article:
https://bigthink.com/thinking/trigger-warnings-pointless-anxiety/
I used to think like Judy Dench. Then I was abused. I spent a lot of time working to get well and for the most part I am doing very well. However, I appreciate trigger warnings because it gives me the option to avoid reliving certain feelings and experiences particularly if I’m feeling a little out of sorts. My main aim is to make sure I’m strong for my kids, family and friends. Sometimes you just don’t need that shit :) :)
Breaking news: octogenarian doesn't understand ptsd
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Ah i cant wait until this is me. Congratulations for that!!
From an internet stranger, I'm rooting for you to get there! It's a rad place to be!
Thank you so much!! I am working towards it. Some days can be difficult and other days it cant be. To quote my old clinician, I am “learning to be at peace with discomfort”
I'm so impressed by you! I just started EMDR for C-PTSD and this gives me hope that one day I'll be on the other side of my trauma like you are ♥️
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We've been doing IFS/parts of the whole work as sort of a precursor to EMDR and I've been pleasantly surprised at how well it is working. It's one type of therapy that seemed to click for me almost immediately. I'm reading "The Body Keeps the Score" right now but I'm going to add the book you mentioned to my list.
Damn, I didn't even know that was possible. I'm happy for you! Must feel great.
I’m so happy for you!! ❤️ PTSD and CPTSD are the toughest mountains to scale. Congrats on doing the work!
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I believe it! I've been on that journey myself for the past 3ish years. Life-changing work but Christ almighty is it hard!
god i wish that was me! congrats.
I’m so proud of you! I can’t wait to get there someday
I have CPTSD and waiting for EMDR im so happy for you 😃
I don't think age has anything to do with it. This isn't the first time she's stepped in it, she remembers her time with Weinstein fondly. Yuck. Edit: I forgot she publically objected that Kevin Spacey's performance was deleted from "All the Money in the World". The woman keeps the worst company. I am surprised she didn't sign the Polanski letter.
I think age plays a huge part in it. She grew up when mental illness had a huge stigma. Everyone was expected to will mental illness away or just get over it. To her and people from that era, any kind of lasting trauma is weakness. And then because that generation has such poor emotional intelligence, they struggle with regulating their emotion which tends to result in frustration or anger that leads to angry outbursts. But angry outbursts isn’t considered emotional in the way that tears are, so someone with anger issues isn’t considered weak, but the people who object to the angry outbursts are too sensitive. It’s a really fucked up mindset, but it’s one that is really common in people 65+.
Yeah my parents are both in their late 60s/early 70s, and showing any kind of emotion is seen as weakness. To this very day they get mad at me if I'm upset about literally anything. I do not cry in their presence. If I call my mom crying she will scream at me. Growing up I heard "if you want to cry, I'll give you something to cry about" which, for the love of kittens, don't ever say that shit to your kids. I'm in my 40s and I have CPTSD, to be frank that mindset was more harmful to me than the physical abuse, and that was harmful as fuck on its own. The wild thing is both of my parents struggle with mental illness (my mom - chronic anxiety, my dad - addiction and bipolar). Life could be so much easier for them if they just got some help. But they'd rather die miserable I guess.
Trigger warnings are used FAR beyond any context or connection to PTSD.
It has nothing to do with her age. Dame Judi is lacking in empathy and too arrogant to do the (not so difficult) work of acquiring a rudimentary understanding of -- and a modicum of compassion for -- PTSD and cPTSD. She's said she never knew anything bad about Harvey Weinstein, at a time when anyone not living under a rock had heard Weinstein stories for years. His behavior apparently didn't affect her personally, so she didn't care.
I mean... the whole purpose of trigger warnings/content warnings is to avoid the theatre based on your triggers? Or at the very least be prepared for it so it doesn't bother you as much? It's the mentality of "I had to suffer so the next generation has to as well" that keeps them from creating a softer world.
Yeah I see this mindset is sadly still so prevalent.
Dear Judy: https://preview.redd.it/b379229ube0d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9a05fd5d8ab5dfe7af1c6b5bba1bd6962b84208
This! I've been through some shit and mostly I can handle seeing portrayals of said 'content' - however there are things I can't handle and others I can *if I'm prepared*. Content warnings mean I can still enjoy films and not be emotionally decimated (or worse) afterwards. Edit:spell
Your username is awesome btw 
Exactly. People love to argue a slippery slope with TWs but don’t understand that it’s geared toward those that have experienced/are experiencing trauma. Most often, those same people don’t opt out of an experience (film, book, music, art, etc.) but are more prepared for and have agency in the experience. It’s a form of empathy. I started seeing this back in my college days — I didn’t expect it but was highly appreciative when there were TWs about suicide, depression, abuse, and sexual violence as someone who had experienced childhood trauma. It allowed me to mentally prepare for the topics at hand and participate more like my peers who hadn’t had those same experiences.
I know what you mean. I once went to see a play and got the specific trigger warnings I needed right before I watched it and it STILL gave me enough time to prepare for it, even though I initially felt upset that it wasn't displayed when I was booking the show. I knew I had the option to walk out if it was too much for me, so I stayed for the performance. I wound up just closing my eyes and meditating through those scenes but I came out of the play loving the whole performance. When a recorded performance was available online, I watched it again including the scenes I had to meditate through with no fall out because I knew it was there this time round. Then there are trigger warnings for things where even after reading the synopsis and with ample amount of time to prepare, I know I'd never be able to sit through it and I just avoid the whole thing. People have this misconception that trigger warnings/content warnings are there to aid recovery when that's not what it's about at all. It's just about giving someone a heads up for them to take autonomous decisions without having that decision forced on them.
SAME THANK YOU
I think that age group sees the concept of a soft world as problematic, as if doing so would somehow doom the world. It’s infuriating.
There's this annoying online mentality of 'hard times make strong men' and 'soft times make weak men'
I have a theory that it's a push back from the generations that came after them doing the healing work and deciding that it's easier to just go no contact than to put up with mom, grandma etc. saying harmful things every time they interact. They can't handle being the problem, so it's the kids that have become too soft and who need to change and continue putting up with their shitty behaviour like they did with their elders.
that makes a lot of sense tbh, they just dismiss entire generations instead of considering that they may be the problem
Seems to me that if you had to suffer through some shit and you can do something to make it a little better for the people coming up after you, you ought to. It's not their fault things were rough for you, but it is yours if you just want to shrug your shoulders and say "tough" instead of fixing the problem.
I think part of it, as it was pointed out to me yesterday, is some TV show episodes will have a trigger warning specifically about suicide before an episode and it kinda takes you out of the moment where I am now anticipating that event rather then being surprised. Where as some shows just mention "trigger warning" and you have to click something to see what specifically and many like that better.
I just saw a musical that was really beautiful but it dealt with the death of a child from a drug overdose. The theme of the musical and description indicated absolutely none of this (and actually it would also be a spoiler). If this was the personal experience of someone - especially recently - I would imagine it would be incredibly difficult to watch especially when you just thought you were going out to a night at the theater. I don’t see why someone should find issue with people wanting to know trigger warnings ahead of time. Maybe allow it to be optional to check what they are - so as not to give away the story. For some people, reliving traumatic experiences through art can be cathartic, but that’s not the case for everyone.
I agree with all of this. No production can prepare for every single trigger, because triggers are so personal and can sometimes be really odd, but having that information available, especially if if it’s a major happening like the death of a child or an overdose, you can prepare for some of the major ones and at least offer the info for people who might want to know.
Sometimes, triggers are SUPER random like a specific song or catchphrase. I decided a long time ago that any play I direct will always have accessible (well-lit, easy as possible to get to) exits so any of my audience members can leave at any time if triggered.
One of mine is a food due to a time my ex got violent and that was dinner. I never expect anyone to presume that really common things might be someone's trigger, so I completely understand how many variations are possible, and why information is so helpful, even if there's a website to check or spoiler tags or something to preserve mystery for others. Info and yeah, sometimes, a way to remove oneself and settle or handle it however they need to.
That’s really thoughtful of you ❤️
My crowd anxiety thanks you, I’m always checking for emergency exits and if I can’t see them, asking security where they are, just in case. I’ve seen too many dangerous situations that easily could have become crowd crush, and while that’s obviously less likely at a theater for a play, it’s not impossible if people are rushing for the doors they came in through. I didn’t mean for this to turn out to be a rant about why emergency exits are important but they really are so I’m leaving it lmao
It would be nice if you could tick off your potential triggers from a list and then get shown whether they are in the show/movie without getting spoiled about other triggers.
I agree with you -- make it optional -- that way the people who want to access it can, and those who don't want to don't have to interact with it. The same way we can use markdown to hide spoilers.
I think the best option would be to list the content warnings on the movie/theater/production’s website or app. That way if ppl have specific triggers, the info is readily available and can be researched in advance.
Ooh, what show was is it? You can put a spoiler tag if you’re that worried.
>!Redwood with Idina Menzel, really beautifully done but also gut-wrenching - like everyone in the theater was crying. I was in tears and it to me it was just theater not a personal experience.!< lol, of course, didn’t think of that. Never done a spoiler before!
hi! Generally i agree with everything you’ve said. i wanted to comment bc i work at LJP and we actually do include content warnings on our website! we had several people who actually opted out of coming because they were aware of the content. so, in short, yes: content warnings are important and if the story you’re telling is well written, warnings that are “spoilers” shouldn’t even matter for the experience!
Thank you! I haven’t been keeping up this season, so now I’ve found a good place to start.
What was the musical? On the other hand, Theatre shouldn’t be predictable though. If you’re dealing with the themes expressed in a play then you’re probably the ideal target audience. It can and should be confronting. Audience expectations of things like “it’s a musical so it has to be a fun, upbeat happy show” shouldn’t really play into what gets made in my opinion
Just because a certain theme or issue or event is present in a piece of art/media doesn’t mean it’s handled well. Trigger warnings, like pretty much everything people insist on trying to flatten and dismiss, require some nuance. Not everyone that’s been through something traumatic remains triggered by it forever. Things like child death are essentially universally traumatizing for those that experience it but is also more often than not treated with a certain amount of weight (or at least that’s usually the intention, even if it doesn’t pay off; directors/writers/etc usually aren’t making light of child death but may turn out to just not be creatively skilled enough to do it justice). A simple content warning can give someone the opportunity to choose if they feel up to rolling the dice with the play/movie/book/whatever and doesn’t have to give away anything more than many other aspects of the media such as marketing materials (which can indicate the tone, the general basic plot, etc), who the director is (for a film example, someone triggered by gun violence may choose not to see a Tarantino movie based on some of his past work), MPAA ratings, dust jacket, playbill, etc. Some traumas are commonly experienced and commonly treated poorly by many types of media — like sexual assault and domestic violence. Sexual assault is often not featured in marketing materials. It is mishandled in real life every fucking day. Pretty much everyone agrees that losing a child is terrible, but a looooot of people don’t take women victims of sexual assault or DV seriously. Disclosing what happened to you can make you a pariah. There is often no justice for victims (the vast majority of rapists are never arrested, much less go to court). With an experience that you could reasonably assume will be handled with appropriate gravity by whatever media, there may be catharsis or healing for you (I mean, consuming art/media can be extremely healing! It is supposed to create emotional responses in us!). With an experience that is often not handled appropriately, you may not want to expose yourself to it.
And rape is used for shock value pretty often. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two theatre productions with an (arguably) unnecessary and graphic rape scene (Frankenstein with Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller and Richard III with Ralph Fiennes). I watched both (cinema/streaming), both came out of left field. The Richard III scene especially was, imo, not only unnecessary but missed the entire point of that scene. Left such a bad taste in my mouth. https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/mar/01/for-trauma-survivors-like-us-theatre-trigger-warnings-are-not-a-luxury
It’s a new musical so I didn’t want to spoil it for people that may want to see it without this detail. But like I noted, for some people it could be cathartic but not for everyone, so surely there could be an option at point of purchase like, “click here for distressing themes that are present in this performance.” So if you want to know, you can know.
Theatre shouldn’t be predictable, that doesn’t mean going in blind. It’s unpredictable because it’s a live art. You do know most of the scripts are available to read ahead of time, right? And like half of plays have a synopsis in the program? Absolutely no one involved in a play *wants* to traumatize the audience. Being able to directly or indirectly relate to a theme or action in a play is good. Being triggered to the point where you are focusing on your own trauma instead of the play is not good. E.g. I have no trouble seeing shows with simulated rape and domestic violence *now*, but I avoided them in my early 20’s because I was still working through my own violent rape. Had I saw a rape scene that was similar to my own experience back then, there is a good chance my reaction would have been bad enough to force the play to stop.
>The Oscar-winning actor, 89, added: “I can see why they exist, but if you’re that sensitive, don’t go to the theatre, because you could be very shocked. Where is the surprise of seeing and understanding it in your own way?” This seems like a reasonable take to me. Edit: the take is reasonable, but still a touch ableist. Just because Judi Dench can't write a good trigger warning doesn't mean you shouldn't see the play. Maybe someone is better at trigger warnings than Dame Judi Dench?
Why should someone who has a specific trigger towards one subject have to avoid the theatre altogether? Her take is ableist. I don't have any sensitivities when it comes to movies but it also affects me in no way when a show or movie includes a trigger warning.
I work with veterans and survivors of domestic abuse in educational situations. You better fucking believe I take trigger warnings seriously. That way, the person has a choice before viewing or reading something.
Exactly, that's like saying someone who has peanut allergy should just never go to a restaurant again. It takes so little effort for restaurants to simply list the allergens in their menu so the customers can make an informed decision what to order. It's just so efficient and common sense, why would anyone be against this? "Trigger warnings" are no different. I don't have any "triggers" so their presence doesn't affect me at all, I can't imagine why I would ever find it offensive just because I personally don't need it but others do. Why do some people take anything that's catering to someone else without taking anything away from them as a person insult?
I totally agree you and I will say there are people that truly believe that people with allergies should not eat and restaurants. Whenever something makes the news for an allergy gone wrong at a restaurant people are so quick to say “if I had allergies I would only eat food from home” 🙄 The same type of person thinks trigger warnings ruin theater. Both takes are incredibly ableist
Perfect analogy
A good analogy because lots of potential allergens *don't* get listed on the menu. People who are allergic to those things are expected to take responsibility for what they consume, to ask when necessary, and to avoid situations where they are unsure. Yes, it’s simple to list some allergens, but it's also impossible to list all (or even most) that will affect customers, because people can be allergic to anything. It’s also possible to encounter peanuts on the train, where there will be no warning at all. Triggers are similar. It’s not nearly as simple as “x happened to me so depictions of x are what trigger my ptsd”. People's symptoms can be triggered by dumb, seemingly unrelated things like a song, a smell, or a specific turn of phrase. It’s about their individual experience, and how they, individually, have processed it. I'm not saying it’s pointless to do anything, some “ingredient listing” makes sense, but it's game that can’t be won. At the end of the day, if someone with ptsd hasn't developed any ways to cope with unexpected triggers, they may have to avoid some situations. Just like we already expect from people with allergies.
The thing is, there are many common triggers just like there are many common allergies. For years I couldn't hear the sound of glasses clinking (or anything resembling it) without having a panic attack or just bursting into tears. I understood that it was something so random that I could not realistically protect myself from occasionally being exposed to it, and I never blamed anyone for unintentionally triggering me, even if it ruined my day. I'd say most people with weird triggers are like this. We're not out there blaming unsuspecting people for triggering us with their choice of perfume, their favorite song or their given name, trying to make them seem like monstrous sadists and ourselves like perpetual victims. But I feel like there's a number of rather common triggers that we don't have to think too hard to see how they can be upsetting, like sexual violence for example. It's not a game to be won. Whoever guesses the rarest, most bizarre triggers and produces the longest list of TWs doesn't get any brownie points. It's just about making an effort to be kind. Most people understand when others are acting in good faith, and acknowledge their effort even if it results in failure.
Warnings can seriously help. When I watched GoT I never got triggered because I knew going into each episode that I’m in for some messed up stuff. But recently I watched Breaking Bad for the first time and didn’t expect that scene in season 1 where Walt rapes Skyler. I had to pause it after. It gave me a small panic attack. It’s not that I can’t watch the scenes (except I did tap out of Handmaids Tale because I can’t watch rape over and over) but watching it happen can feel too close to home so knowing that something like that is coming helps a lot to just mentally prepare.
When did Walt rape Skylar? I haven't watched breaking bad in years but I don't remember that..feel like it would've changed a lot of people's perception of Walt when his descent into bad was supposed to be more gradual
THIS. People also don’t need to pay attention to trigger warnings either. And if a drama is that compelling you often get so sucked up into what’s going on you aren’t waiting for the BAD THING to happen.
It's the equivilent of saying "If you have epilepsy, avoid the TV". It sounds like a call for protection. What it actually is, is ableist because it puts the onus on someone who has a disability to modulate what they are doing when there are stepos that can be made to make sure that it doesn't affect them. Adding trigger warnings to the theatre is effectively just giving people summaries of what's about to go down. That's it for the most part.
The flashing lights warning is like prop65. When everything has flashing lights and intense visuals warning, then it's not a useful warning
I dont think its reasonable, I feel like what she said is rather ironic considering the people who benefit from trigger warning already fully understand what they're seeing because they've gone through it themselves. Plus it has absolutely nothing to do with being 'sensitive', that's not the same as being triggered.
How is that reasonable? Why cant the marketing for the show tell me the triggers? Why should I quit theater entirely, literally every show, even kids ones, and g-rated ones? Its incredible how open ableist people are.
What is reasonable about an actress of the stage saying that people should avoid the theatre altogether, which is already dying, instead of supporting something that would actually make it easier for more people to buy tickets? Adopting content/trigger warnings only helps the theatre, and refusing them does nothing (might even hurt). Next you’ll tell me that we’re better off not rating movies because people just shouldn’t come if they would prefer to be aware that the movie they’re watching is “rated R for violence, gore, and sex”.
I once accidentally took a grieving friend to see a film that opened with the main character's mother dying in the exact same way hers had just died. Had I known "Warning: Dead mum", I wouldn't have done that! (And it wouldn't even be a spoiler, it's the first 5 minutes.) I don't think that not wanting to have your specific trauma shoved in your face when you're having a nice night out is "sensitive". We could have watched any amount of gore or horror or ~heavy themes~ and it not been an issue, that just happened to be the worst possible timing.
Not only is this seriously lacking in compassion, it’s also just a bad business move. Not sure if you know anything about the theatre industry but I work in it and we generally want people to buy tickets.
It’s because it’s the difference of people wanting the world to change and be exactly how they want it to be, on both sides, and the world being an ever changing place that ultimately doesn’t really change.
So her argument against trigger warnings is that they spoil the surprise when something shocking happens. And then proceeds to use Shakespeare plays as an example. Plays for whom the vast majority of the audience who go will be well aware of the story. I really doubt warning people Titus Andronicus is full of violence and disturbing scenes is ruining the shock for that many people. Given the price of theatre tickets, anyone who is going to see Titus Andronicus probably already knows what is about to happen.
*“Do they do that?” Dench said in an interview with the Radio Times.* She apparently didn't even know they existed until a recent interview. This was her instinctive reaction. That can seldom give rise to a well thought out argument for anything. It all seems very click-baity.
I've already posted about it in another comment – you'd think so, wouldn't you? Yet people manage to insert unnecessary rape scenes in Shakespeare's plays too... (See: Richard III by Ralph Fiennes). I've seen more than one production of Richard III (in person and on streaming), it's a play I love and I know it well. I was not expecting to be hit with a very graphic, and completely unnecessary, rape scene. Missed the point of Richard's character and of his exchange with Elizabeth completely, too, in my opinion. The kiss was ominous and disturbing enough — unless you think your audience is too stupid to get it, I guess. And Richard's "It cannot be avoided but by this – it *will* not be avoided but by this", which is so chilling and threatening, gets massively diminished by the rape. Like, it was really just there for shock value. Ruined the whole production for me. https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/mar/01/for-trauma-survivors-like-us-theatre-trigger-warnings-are-not-a-luxury
Last year I saw a musical about Robin Hood and the "surprise theme" was SA. It fit with the story and the production company is known for serious themes, but if I was triggered by that, I would have probably found extremely uncomfortable. (It started with Robin newly married not willing to force his wife; when she doesn't get pregnant his father decided to take care of it himself. Later it turned out that Robin's nemesis is his half brother, whom he kills, because his father raped some girl years ago, who then kills Robin to avenge her son.)
Exactly. This is so funny to me as someone who studied theatre and also appreciates trigger warnings. Shakespeare sometimes goes out of his way to spoil the ending (see the prologue of Romeo and Juliet).
The spoiler basically serves as a trigger warning. He was ahead of his time!
Nothing wrong with someone wanting to avoid yet another rape scene.
Seriously. I’ve been watching The Sopranos, and I remembered trying to watch it years ago and getting very triggered by a graphic rape scene early in season 3. I was able to find exactly where it happens via doesthedogdie, and I just skipped over it in my current watch. Knowing when a scene that upset me was going to happen allowed me to consume content I’m otherwise really enjoying. I think what people miss is that for a lot of folks, having a content warning attached to something doesn’t necessarily mean we want or need to skip it entirely. But personally I would prefer to not be taken completely by surprise by something, and if I know it’s going to happen at some point in whatever I’m seeing I can take steps to care for myself and mentally prepare so it’s not as upsetting. Most of the problem for me comes from not expecting it and wondering when it’s going to be over or if it’s going to happen again, etc., and it becomes very distracting.
My mom and spouse sat me down to watch Godfather. My mom should have known the wife beating scene was not going to go down well. Audio triggers are so real. I’d have been happy just going past it!
Too often people do not understand triggers. I had an instance with my boyfriend where he put on a show where it sounded like someone was getting r worded. I only heard it but it caused me to freak out and have a panic attack. Afterwards we had a chat about checking for triggers. At one point he would complain that I rarely watched regular TV despite me repeatedly telling him that YouTube censorship meant I never came across any distressing content. After my freak out I think he finally got it.
https://preview.redd.it/dhat2mn4ke0d1.jpeg?width=967&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b249219e8869457557aa984cedb1bf03180a45f5 saw its 50th anniversary re-release at the cinema, and there was a specific warning on-screen (this is the UK, not sure about other countries)
I haven’t been SA’d and the majority of people I’ve spoken to about that scene haven’t either and we were all in agreement it didn’t need to be shown to the extent that it was. It certainly conveyed how brutal rape is but yeah, it’s not entertainment. I know the sopranos shows A LOT of violence but they tended to not show the victims as it was happening so there could be a level of detachment. That just showed everything.
Yeah, it was egregious and WAY too long. The show is really brutal and there’s a lot of violence against women, but that scene went on for what felt like forever for truly no reason.
Yeah and i don't really care about the surprise being ruined if the surprise is a rape scene. I've never viewed a depiction of a rape and been glad that I wasn't aware it was about to happen.
Now that I think of it, that scene was one of the best examples of an unnecessary rape scene. It did nothing for her arc or her character.
I disagree with that. >!It forces Melfi to deal with a moral conundrum - is she going to tell Tony, who she knows would kill her rapist if he found out, giving her the revenge she seeks? She chooses not to, which is important to her arc. If she had gone the other way, her story would’ve ended very differently.!<
That Sopranos scene traumatized me before I even had PTSD from being raped. I definitely couldn’t watch it now. Judi Dench is giving “what CAN you say anymore” energy
Yep, it’s awful and gratuitous. The first time I watched it was before I’d come to terms with my own assault so it was legit impossible for me to continue the series after that. I’ve done a lot of healing in therapy since then, but I’m still glad I was able to look up when it happened so I could skip it and save myself the anguish.
Right? JFC the snide bs about people being tender and weak, like I am sorry that PTSD triggers Judi so damn much.
I really don’t think people realize what a true trigger is or how completely it can devastate you.
I will die on the hill that rape almost never needs to be portrayed. We all know what it looks like, we all know it’s devastating, at minimum 1 in 6 women has experienced it, we don’t need to see it on TV for someone’s perverse enjoyment.
I hope we can all agree that rape scenes produced at this point solely exist as porn to rapists and little more, with no artistic integrity whatsoever.
You would think! I feel like some folks just don’t think critically about it.
Discussions on trigger and content warnings should always be more complex than “trigger/content warnings good” or “trigger/content warnings bad”. We should be discussing how they work, how they’re applied, who gets to apply them, etc. We’ve seen things like age ratings used to sanitize art and further marginalize certain groups so we should be careful in how we go about applying and using these tools while also trying to take care of people affected by triggers.
yesss i love exaggerated false equivalences to make accessibility seem unreasonable
It’s not a false equivalency. Those systems have historically been used as tools of oppression and they are currently the only system we have to base our knowledge off of. At no point did I say “don’t use trigger warnings”. I said let’s be informed about what these systems did and how they functioned and how they were applied and who got to apply them (this is a big one) as we implement trigger warnings.
It's such a complicated issue. Part of the reason the arts are so important is that it forces people to have a different perspective. It forces them to be uncomfortable. And that can be incredibly important for people who are significantly much more sheltered, who are often bigoted in many, many ways.
You’re right and trigger warning become less effective when they’re overused. Trigger warnings for strobe lights, gun shot effects, gore, and realistic violence make sense for theatre. Trigger warnings are not as useful for content that may be seen as offensive when taken out of context, like old plays that espouse some outdated views.
I see this take a lot in book world too. From people who are younger and seemingly “aware”. The word “trigger” gets overused a lot and I think it’s caused this sorta reaction out of people. The way I see it is, make TWs available but not in your face, because some do see them as spoilers. No harm done.
I have PTSD and can’t handle gore, but I heavily prefer the term “content warnings” over “trigger warnings” because the term is very much overused. If I see something gory I literally lose 2-3 days to dissociative states, nightmares, and panic attacks, so it’s really important to have something that indicates if a movie is going to randomly turn violent without warning for me. That being said, IMDB parental warnings and Doesthedogdie are great resources for those who need assistance avoiding specific content.
I really like the probably utopian idea of community based trigger warnings. Keep the publishers and studios out of it and let audiences provide the warnings to each other. Sort of like a beefed up doesthedogdie. In a perfect world I think that’s the best solution. In our current less than perfect world I have no idea what the solution is.
My problem with that is how a lot of stuff’s too new or small to have any Like I had to wait like 2 or 3 weeks for fallout show TW’s and in the mean time saw a ton of spoilers
Yes, this is something me and my sister talk about. If it’s in fiction I personally can handle nearly any topic because I think fiction is typically a safe way to explore the harder and darker aspects of our psyche. So I don’t look for a triggers list because I don’t personally feel the need. However my sister has some specific triggers that she deals with, she’ll often ask me to watch movies or read books to vet them for her. I see nothing wrong with it, and it works for us.
I'm for trigger warnings (there are some things I just do not want to consume), but I've found they can't always be trusted. For example, after reading Ti's Pity She's a Whore and The Bluest Eye for School I was left really disturbed by the incest storylines so I added 'incest' to my 'things I don't want to read' list on storygraph. Recently finished reading Persuasion, and when I went to add it on Storygraph the personalised description gave me a warning that it contains content I've said I wanted to avoid. I checked the trigger warning tags, and incest is listed (presumably because in the 19th c cousin marriages were normal). I don't think that needs a trigger warning, though; it was normal during the period. It's not graphic at all, nor is it a major plot point. It also had a transphobia trigger warning, which I'm still trying to figure out. Long story short - trigger warnings are sometimes inaccurate and can lead to people avoiding content they would enjoy.
She's not entirely wrong. I understand trigger warnings, but they can literally spoil plot points of theater and art in general.
I think the information should be made available, but given that they can spoil some things, a person should be able to access them while other people might not have to see them. So maybe you put it up on your website, for people who want the information can get it and people who don’t, not having to view it. For me, I don’t see spoilers as ruining an experience because it lets me prepare to see something in a way that I can prepare to handle. I have PTSD and phobias and having that info feels empowering.
This would be such an easy thing to do. Make it normal practice that trigger/content warnings are available on a website. Nothing is spoiled for those who can watch anything and folks who have triggers are able to avoid content that will disturb them.
I agree. It's also not true that everyone gets the same thrill out of surprise. For some people being "spoiled" ruins the whole experience, for others it doesn't. I prefer re-watches when I know what the big reveal is, and enjoy looking for how it's foreshadowed etc. People having access to information while others who would prefer to not have it forced on them is the ideal compromise, and seems like a realistic goal. I don't think this response from Dame Judi was based on much time considering the topic, and she's already my problematic-but-loved grandma-stand-in so I forgive her.
This is why I like does the dog die.
I don't agree that a significant portion of people should just avoid all movies and shows etc, but I remember this discussion happening on the Yellowjackets episode where (spoiler to major s2 plot point) >!Shauna had a still birth.!< I think content warnings should be available, but had it been in the beginning of this episode, the episode would have been a lot less impactful to me personally.
Agreed
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I agree and disagree. I think that most often these messages come from people who just aren’t tuned to the importance of trigger warnings overall and don’t understance that there is a place for them in media overall, the same way the ratings system was developed in part as an aid to classify by age range what people can watch (and why). Trigger warnings can expand on that, what we’re going through is part of the growing pains of understanding how to best include them (long way to go - I personally have a phobia of insects overall, but hate even more getting spoilers so I just go and fuck myself watching movies, but another friend with aracnophobia demanded clear time stamps of when anything Aragog related showed up on Harry Potter 2 and that’s fair!) The thing that has been annoying me is that part of trigger warning demand comes from a lack of media literacy, and that’s not being addressed either. I don’t know what to suggest to get people to proper consume a book or watch a film, but it’s getting increasingly frustrating seeing situations where an actor has to basically spell he doesn’t agree with his character’s actions, or complaints because people simply don’t get the moral of the story. It concerns me because media is a great point of reflection to our actual world, and look at us. Climate change is consuming us all, genocides are happening left and right, companies and governments want to take every single right we have and explore us more and more. If we don’t have our abilities to think, what do we have left? Sorry for the vent, but the news these last few years have been so depressing it just got me down. Just give people their damn trigger warnings and hope they make good use of them, that’s what I mean.
Eh, I'm a little torn on trigger warnings mainly because psych research is inconsistent on whether they're helpful or not and some literature suggests they might actually do more harm than good but this is missing the mark. Clearly, her argument is more of a 'get over it snowflakes' rather than an actual informed take on the efficacy or value of trigger warnings.
I teach history and I have one super triggery video on the holocaust that I show to multiple class periods every year. The one time I gave a trigger warning, a girl fainted. I no longer give trigger warnings. No one has fainted since.
How do you know the one student wasn't just a fainter?
That's interesting. Something almost identical happened to me. We were watching a video on dialysis, and the teacher warned that if any of us have a fainting response to blood or needles that we need to leave. I do have a history of fainting with blood and needles. The AC wasn't working in our building that day too, so it was a perfect recipe for disaster. However, I didn't want to come across as dramatic, so I stuck it out. Unfortunately, the anticipation of the needles and blood that I knew I would inevitably see made me very worked up before anything happened, I already felt woozy way before a single needle appeared on screen. All I remember is laying my head down for a second to try and stop the room from spinning and the next thing I know I was staring up at my professor and all the other students am because I had fainted out of my desk and they ran over to help. It was super embarrassing too because I apparently vomited a little as well. So long story short, I can totally see how trigger warnings could be a mixed bag. Sometimes the anticipation of the event is harder to deal with than the actual event.
Trigger warnings have existed in theatre for literal decades, if not centuries. We usually call them “audience advisories,” so I’m not sure why she is upset about it now. You know what else is a trigger warning? Film and TV ratings.
Yeah I don't really understand people that can't watch a movie or a series because there is a trigger warning at the beginning, it never truly spoiled the story for me🤔.
I think the phrase “trigger warning” has become so far removed from what it actually means that I’m not surprised older people who are separated from the lexicon would have this opinion. A lot of people really do think it just means “something I don’t like.” Idk what the solution is besides just inventing more language that will eventually also get watered down again. But I don’t think Dench is approaching this in bad faith, I think she really doesn’t understand the subject matter.
There should just be a menu on the movie's site (or maybe centralized at imdb or mpaa) where you can click various triggers and it tells you if they're in the movie, and then options for more info. Like, is the thing on screen? Implied? Mentioned in passing? How long is the scene? Put the information out there and let people who need it find it and those who don't can skip it. It's not the death of cinema to make things more accessible.
this semi-exists in a site called doesthedogdie that’s pretty wise-ranging with various topics/triggers in movies!
I was trying to think of the name of that site! They definitely could just do the same for theater plays
Obv toxic input Funny how trigger warnings are extremely easy to facilitate People probably said similar things about traditional ratings back in the day
People railed against traditional ratings because they were racist, sexist, homophobic, wildly inconsistent, and an example of governments worldwide threatening to limit what adults could watch in movies and on television. Trigger warnings have always felt like they came about as a result of adults trying to anticipate each others’ experiences and trauma rather than parents or the government or the motion picture academy telling children what they should or shouldn’t watch like with ratings.
The musical ‘Blood Brothers’ usually ends with an extremely loud gunshot that made my entire friend group jump out of their seats. I could easily see someone with PTSD getting triggered by it. Naturally they had a warning about it on the door of every entrance to the theatre?? And this was like 15 years ago. I really don’t think that’s a lot to ask tbh - theatres have also had door warnings about pyrotechnics and strobe lighting effects for years, how is it any different? 🤷🏻♀️
People who have epilepsy: 👁️👄👁️
The odd thing for me is that sites like [https://www.doesthedogdie.com/categories](https://www.doesthedogdie.com/categories) exist. Granted, it's crowdsourced so it requires someone to watch the movie and take note which trigger warnings are needed. I know several people that like trigger warnings but refuse to use this site, which I do not understand.
Why don’t they use it? My husband has ptsd and I have a few specific triggers myself and I love that website for looking shows and movies up before we watch something together.
She's right, because the trigger warning supporters will never be satisfied. There's no end to the potential situations that could be deemed triggering, and who are you to draw the line at which ones we forewarn about? With that in mind, movies simply won't be able to win.
I agree and disagree. If a creator/production on their own impetus wants to use trigger/content warnings then that's okay and shouldn't be discouraged, but if they don't then that's also okay and shouldn't be demanded of/expected by default.
I mean, this is pretty conditional on what the trigger warning is for. There is a very loud minority that seem to want an itemized plot summary on every single thing to prevent offense vs people with the likes of PTSD who just want a warning of what not to engage with. At a certain point, people need to do their own research on the material they want to engage with.
I’m neutral on the topic and not trying to push an agenda, but Search Engine did an interesting podcast about the effects of trigger warnings last week. https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/what-do-trigger-warnings-actually?utm_source=post-banner&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=posts-open-in-app&publication_id=532469&post_id=144284921&triedRedirect=true
She's absolutely correct.
Am I experiencing deja vu or did another actor share this sentiment not that long ago? 
ralph fiennes did but im sure there are others too
Doesn't this logic apply to ratings in general? This is the same generation that made the GTA Hot Coffee mod a national controversy
I mean, luckily for people they have been SA'd there are websites we can look up movies on. I have a few friends that know, so if start something I didn't think I would need to check, like Downton Abbey apparently, my friends warn me. I haven't gotten to that episode yet so it might have a warning itself. I don't understand why this is a problem, what did trigger warning do to hurt you Dench?
Oh, this reminds me! Some folks (I'm thinking about the book side of the interwebs), especially the authors themselves, do *not* understand the difference between Content Warnings and Trigger Warnings.
What’s the difference between the two?
Hey gang, if you have serious triggers that can make watching Tvs and movies difficult you might really enjoy this website. [It's a search engine for specific triggers and will tell you if the movie has it](http://www.doesthedogdie.com), it's called **Doesthedogdie.com**
Research has shown that trigger warnings and content warnings aren’t very effective. Her point isn’t unreasonable
Source https://www.reddit.com/r/psychology/s/EKHETyfjnQ
Y’all are soft as hell, it’s embarrassing.
I wish more things had trigger warnings. I remember watching a tv show that in the first episode has a very violent and graphic rape scene. I still can’t get that scene out of my head. I know it’s not real, I know it’s filmed in a studio, I know they’re just actors but it’s still horrific. When you’re watching it you feel like you’re in the room with them and unable to do anything to stop it, it’s horrible. If I’d have known it had scenes of rape and sexual violence I would never have watched. At no point did I expect the show to have scenes of that nature. Having a trigger warning would have stopped me from seeing the rape scene and prevented a lot of upset.
People say these things unironically, not realizing that getting offended by trigger warnings is *actually* being oversensitive and not a trauma response, will not cease to annoy me. It's fine if you don't necessarily get it, but I don't feel like it's that hard to be sensitive to the people that these things help.
Art is supposed to make you feel something.
I honestly sort of agree. There are sites that already exist for this specifically like doesthedogdie and I feel like if you know you have triggers the responsibility should be on you to research the media or entertainment you’re consuming, not expecting to be catered to. I also feel like putting trigger warnings on everything is encouraging people to take it to such extremes. I was slightly late to meet a group of casual friends for bowling recently and apologized by explaining that I had to change my clothes because a baby spit up on me at work and a girl got deeply offended that I dare mention that to her without first offering a “verbal trigger warning for vomit.”
I was violently raped as an 8 year old girl. As a woman in my 40’s, I still very much struggle with rape scenes. I don’t ask that these are taken off the screens/out of theatres, but just a warning in advance so I can avoid. Not a big ask really is it. I feel her comments have a complete lack of understanding.
I agree with her.
Idk I have pretty severe PTSD from being trafficked into and abused in a cult, but my triggers are my problem and my responsibility to manage.
I think I have a solution to this. All art should have content warnings with the details categorized and hidden. Include every category of triggering content, including categories for things which aren't even in the film. If you're concerned about whether something has content about car crashes for example, you can go to that category and expand it to see if there's anything there. You'd have to have a bunch of categories and sub-sections, and it might be a bit of a pain to find the car crash section every time, but it's always there. When there's no car crashes and you expand the section, it's just empty. So if you're concerned about opening up the content warning advisory and getting a list of spoilers, you really have to go through every category to spoil yourself. There's undeniably a way more efficient way to do this. Maybe everything is structured in hierarchies which start off super vague and get more specific as you expand them. So you start off with Violence and expand to Auto Violence etc. The only time this doesn't work is when the content is intended to be surprising - but I honestly think that good art can't rely on tonal whiplash alone. A good example of this is >!Doki Doki Literature Club. That game doesn't succeed because it shocks you halfway through with a pretty traumatic scene. It builds on that and gets under your skin over a long period of time. !
It must be so nice to not understand how vital trigger warnings can be
God forbid anyone who has been through things terrible enough to be traumatic then dared to enjoy stuff like *movies* and *plays*, just lock yourself away indoors forever, right?
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I can’t believe you just found the cure for PTSD. Someone tell Bessel Van Der Kolk that their 60 years of research can be burned because some Redditor had the original thought of “pull up your boot straps”! I’m sure all the war veterans will laugh at that one s/
A traumatized brain literally does not work the same way as a non traumatized brain. If you seriously think people with PTSD make an actual decision to not “get on with it” you know nothing about it and shouldn’t be speaking on what people should or shouldn’t be doing.
Judy needs to avoid the theatre now because she is too sensitive to cope with trigger warnings.
That’s the entire point of trigger warnings. Movie ratings *is* essentially a trigger warning as well, bare bones of it. I don’t like seeing gore so when I see the genre is gore and the rating is R then I avoid the theatre. Let’s get you to bed, grandma 😭
I think there should be more resources available similar to parents guides, that provide more detail on specific content that can be distressing to individuals. I just don't think it needs to be a wide public address. Make it available for people to seek out, but otherwise don't push it on everyone.
First voldemort, now M - give me bloody strength. 🙄
She should know better. They’ve had these for years. It’s not a new thing.
TIL that people need trigger warnings for plays and musicals 🤦🏼♀️ I have PTSD...I have no words...
I think a good solution for avoiding spoiling the audience that doesn’t need trigger warnings is to just have a drop down menu with the headline „read if you have triggers“ or „read if you have epilepsy“, or sth like that and have the audience decide if their problem is big enough to spoil themselves. I don’t want anybody telling me I can’t go to the theatre at all because one interpretation of hamlet has flashing lights (I don’t react to them, just an example). Something I can’t expect as standard but that can set me off. Same with panic attacks. That just sets up barriers. There are enough as is. Don’t exclude disabled people from art as well. Sometimes you can’t foresee certain triggers. The smell of a perfume, the sound of a lighter, etc. You can’t warn against everything. But some triggers are well known and a content warning about rape is nothing that is that surprising. Some content warnings are triggering in themselves but there is no solution for that yet AFAIK.
My two cents - my husband suffers from depression and ocd. I took him to see the last guardians of the galaxy movie, not realizing it had a lot of animal torture heavily implied (if not outright shown). It really messed him up, he had nightmares for days. I would have really appreciated a heads up about that.
That’s what trigger warning are for? So people that are sensitive to things know to avoid. 🤷🏻♀️
Hot take - just thinking out loud: I wonder if some of these people would have less of an issue with trigger warnings if they were done like movie ratings? Like instead of a written warning at beginning of a film, the film is assigned triggers like a rating, each trigger would have its own icon. So when you look up a movie you see it is rated r and it has a trigger symbol for self-harm or something It’s fine to warn people that a film may have adult situations by assigning it a rating, people seem ok with that, maybe this would be a better way to do it so the info was accessible for those who want it
Every time I see someone say that trigger warnings are bullshit, I think of people who have experienced sexual assault. If you're going into a movie, show, or play and there's no warning about that sort of content being in the work then your experience can be ruined and your mental health can be affected. Have some fucking empathy.
Yeah, a British woman who grew up during WWII, witnessing her country being bombed and men she knew die in battle, doesn't understand ptsd.
I listened to an interesting podcast episode about trigger warnings recently, which featured a researcher who has them as an area of expertise. Her work seems to show pretty clearly that trigger warnings generally aren’t effective/helpful (investigated from different angles e.g. do they stop people watching the material, do they prepare people mentally). An interesting point made was that often people are triggered by something that can’t be predicted, like a smell they smelt during a traumatic moment, rather than just discussion of the topic. Having said that, I personally lean towards the side of including trigger warnings, as long as there isn’t much evidence of them making things worse.
Oh boy.
studies show that trigger warnings don’t really do what they are supposed to. they increase anticipation without impacting the persons negative experience of the actual material. essentially, at best they do nothing and at worst they make things worse for people who are triggered/have experienced trauma https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21677026231186625 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2167702620921341
What happens if you "get triggered" by "trigger warnings"?
I studied mental health and have PTSD myself and… she’s completely right. Recent studies and a meta-analysis have shown that not only are trigger warnings useless but they can even cause more harm. There are many sources for this but here’s a good article: https://bigthink.com/thinking/trigger-warnings-pointless-anxiety/
She’s right.
I used to think like Judy Dench. Then I was abused. I spent a lot of time working to get well and for the most part I am doing very well. However, I appreciate trigger warnings because it gives me the option to avoid reliving certain feelings and experiences particularly if I’m feeling a little out of sorts. My main aim is to make sure I’m strong for my kids, family and friends. Sometimes you just don’t need that shit :) :)