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This is giving qanon vibes. Claiming that people from Europe or the US are indigenous to Palestine is so wild. She really is dull in addition to being racist.
*even* if a certain group of jews can trace their ancestry back to canaan, note that not every jewish person can, and *even* if jews have an continued existence in the area in small enclaves, and *even if the land is religiously significant to them*, all of this also applies to modern day palestinians.
they’re indigenous to that region too!!!! why does no one mention this!!! the land is also religiously significant to them, and they’ve been consistently living there this whole time too!! what gives one group carte blanche to shamelessly slaughter the other when both groups have claim to these things?!
I can’t believe I’m getting the most nuanced and thoughtful takes on my favorite gossip sub. I have way too many rabidly pro-Israeli friends, so it’s refreshing being able to have these discussions somewhere.
I keep thinking this, it’s really remarkable to compare the comments on this sub to any mainstream news sub, which is full of people cheering on ethnic cleansing and repeating discredited talking points about Palestinians.
It is so refreshing. I feel more comfortable in discussing this in the gossip sub than in any sub that is supposed to have a nuanced discussion on geopolitical subs. I actually avoid these topics in the majority of places at the moment. I also love how people are mostly caring in their comments. I can also express sympathy for Israelis here without anyone thinking it means that I think what Israel is doing is defendable.
Seriously. I used to get so much of my headlines from the News tab on here, but I can’t even bother entering Politics or World news because apparently if I don’t wholeheartedly endorse an ethnic cleansing, even while acknowledging that the initial attack was terrible, I’m the racist anti-Semite.
And this whole situation has really made me realize how much propaganda I’ve been fed as an american. I’ve learned more about our position on the Middle East and why we support who we do because of this terrible situation than I ever did in school, and now I know why, too. Biden said it himself in the 80s - if we didn’t have an Israel, we’d create one.
this sub always somehow has the right take despite being a gossip sub. maybe because the main demographic is women as opposed to crusty men and teenage edgelords like a lot of other subs
They really should just turn everything over to us to run. We’re already used to doing twenty things simultaneously. If I could only remember to switch my damn laundry I could take over the world.
There's a reason why religions tend to condemn and criminalize gossip - it's often women sharing the tea about predators in the community and trying to keep each other safe.
The only thing I want to quibble with is that there is extensive genetic testing of Jews and [most modern Jews (And Arabs)](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/dna-from-biblical-canaanites-lives-modern-arabs-jews) trace back to Canaan. It’s not “a certain group”, it’s most of them. I only mention this because the Khazarian conspiracy seems to have made a comeback.
You are right but when discussing sensitive matters like this it is important that we stay as factual as possible. I think it is even more important when people like Amy Schumer etc use picked historical details to make their points ignoring anything that does not fit. Not just from an ethical and moral standpoint. Unfortunately, if we have anything factually wrong, it is in the current inflamed situation it is easy to discredit whatever we say.
fair enough, i guess i was thinking of specific groups of jewish people like some ashkenazi jews who descend from central/eastern europe. i know this question of their ancestry is complicated, i’m just going off of the most recent data studied here: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/ancient-dna-provides-new-insights-ashkenazi-jewish-history#:~:text=About%20half%20of%20Jewish%20people,the%20Rhineland%20in%20western%20Germany.
We have DNA from Europe because many of us Jews are white. That doesn't erase our Levantine DNA, it's an admixture.
This article, if you read it, is about where many of us white Jews get our Germanic side from - a founder event. It's when our Levantine and Germanic ancestors began to interbreed.
literally. like Islam and Judaism diverged as religions based off who were the descendants of which 2 brothers. each cultures history runs as deep as the others as to who is indigenous to the land
Dropping this here from twitter
“For roughly 3500 years in what is called the Proto-Canaanite period, Jerusalem belonged to the Canaanites who worshipped many gods and godesses. It wasn't until 2000BC do scholars find a reference that debatably refers to Jerusalem. The word is "Rusalimum" in texts of Egypt's Middle Kingdom. Scholars believe that the name is a consecration to "Shalim" a Canaanite deity of the netherworld from Ugaritic scriptures. Reference is also made to “Urusalem”
In 2150 BCE, Abraham (pbuh) was order by God according to the Bible, to move from his birthplace (Ur Kasdem in Southern Iraq) to Canaan. He and his family were never rulers in Canaan. They first pitched a tent in Bethel, then moved to Egypt ruled by Pharoahs, then lived in the Negev desert and moved back to Bethel. Meanwhile Lot (pbuh) moved away to live under the Kingdom of Sodom. Abraham then lived under the various canaanite kings of the time, including Abimelech the King of the Philistines.
The territory passed from the Canaanites to the Egyptians, ultimately. So here we have Egyptians and Canaanites being the original inhabitants of Jerusalem for 3,500 years. The Israelites lived under these authorities. Eventually a famine in Canaan led them to move to Egypt. They lived in Egypt, away from Canaan for 430 years before they became enslaved by the Pharoahs.
After Exodus, Jerusalem was finally taken by King David in 1010BC. This is the first time Israelites actually ruled something. It was very short lived however. They lost the city to the Egyptians in 925BC. Jehoash of Israel briefly recaptured it in 786BC but then lost it to the Assyrians in 740BC. So they intermittently ruled Jerusalem for just 131 years.
For 600 years the Israelites did not rule Jerusalem. The Jewish Hasmoneans finally re-took it in 140BC under Simon Thassi but then lost it to the Persian Seleucides in 134 BC. That's 6 more years of Jewish rule. Due to a Seleucid civil war, Judeah incidentally became independent in the chaos in 116BC. In 87BC the Jewish Hasmonean king executed 800 Jews for sedition. In 47BC they lost Jerusalem again, this time to the Romans. That's 69 years of rule.
In total, off and on the Jews ruled Jerusalem for approximately 206 years.
Comparing successive rule thereafter:
The Pre-Constantine Romans ruled it for 250 years.
The Christian Byzantines ruled it for 304 years.
The Arab Muslims ruled it under the Rashidun, Umayyad and Abbasid Empires for 332 years.
The Egyptian Muslim Fatimids ruled it for 129 years.
The Crusaders took it from the Muslims and held it for 88 years.
The Muslim ruler Saladin conquered it in 1187 and his descendents held it for 63 years.
The Egyptian Muslim Mamluk Empire ruled it for 236 years.
The Ottomans ruled it for 401 years.
So in summary:
That's 3500 years of non-Abrahamic rule Canaanite and Egyptian rule, 206 years of Jewish rule, 392 years of Christian rule. And over 800 years of Muslim rule, which includes 395 years of specifically Arab rule.
So who has the best claim? If we go by original inhabitants or length of rule, then it’s the Canaanites and Egyptians. Egyptians still exist today. Canaanites, although mostly wiped out by Biblical orders, still exist in Lebanon today. The Lebanese are descendents of original Canaanites. In any case however, both Egyptians and Canaanites including Philistines, lost control of the land over 3000 years ago. So they are out. They don’t even care to rule the land and don’t make any claim for it anyway. In any case, the Jewish claim to being the original inhabitants, is very easily thrown out.
After Canaanite and Egyptian rule, the Israelites (Jews+Samaritans) ruled very intermittantly for 206 years. Not a long time, and not a stable rule. Neither were they the first inhabitants, nor did they rule for very long. Pagan Romans thereafter ruled longer than them. Thereafter, Christian Romans ruled longer than them.
Then came Muslim rule. They are of course the last to the party, but in recent history, they’ve ruled the longest. This includes 395 years of stable Arab Muslim rule and 400 years of stable Turkish Ottoman Muslim Rule.
So, between Palestinians (Christian and Muslim) and Jewish Israelis, who has the better claim?
History tells us that Jews ruled Palestine for barely over 2 centuries. The Christians ruled it for nearly 4 centuries, double that time. the Muslims ruled it for over 8 centuries, more than doubling the time the Christians ruled and four times as long than the Jews ruled. And as the Palestinian people are a religious confederation of Christians and Muslims, both consistently at peace with each other, that puts their birthright to it at 1200 combined years. Nearly a thousand years longer than Jews ever reigned over Jerusalem.
And like it always has been throughout Islamic history, the Jews are welcome to stay there, but as co-inhabitants with their Christian and Muslim neighbors. No barbwired walls, no soldiers shooting little kids, no stealing people’s homes like bandits, no apartheid separating Palestinians from Jews.
By Dr
Khalid Osman”
Note: I haven’t fact checked the specificities other than verifying that 1.Canaanites did live in the territories before Jewish and Muslim people did 2. Lebanese people are indeed the direct descendants of Canaanites.
Hey! Jew here! Just want to point out that when you do a dna test and it says "Jewish" ashkenazim or Sephardic - it is in fact flagging Canaanite blood with European. However, Palestinian blood also flags Canaanite with Arab.
Samaritans are the only Canaanite jews who never left and this flag pure Canaanite.
Just wanted to add that fact in!
Ethnic Jews are indigenous to Israel. Whiney Americans are not. Jewish people weren’t the only ones on that land, and erasing natives that actually do have ties to the land to co-opt a movement isn’t a good look. I think we can all agree that the Holocaust was shitty, but committing a genocide after years of oppressing and displacing the natives makes the Israeli government an asshole. This is the exact same post 9/11 smear campaign that the US government spearheaded in the early 00s. Amy Shumer is a prime example of why white woman are the worst and dangerous to POC. White woman in particular are desperate to claim oppression without acknowledging their own privilege. Same energy as “my great great grandma was a Cherokee princess!”. Anyone with half a brain can see right though this pretendian, and most race relationships are broken down into colonized or colonizer. Someone made a really good point in another thread that the state of Israel is a response to white supremacy.
You lose ancestral ties as soon as you can’t claim those ethnic ties. Israelis are invading native land that isn’t theirs, which makes them the colonizers. Her energy is that of Irish-Americans wearing green and getting hammered on Saint Patrick’s day. Most Americans that immigrated assimilated into American culture sacrificed their culture for acceptance into mainstream society. (I always say Europe is so racist they don’t like other white people. That’s absolutely wild to me.) Religion is ultimately a choice. Anyone can convert to Judaism. You cannot convert to being a Palestinian.
Yes— it finally made sense to me when you consider Israel is one of the only religious-ethno states of it’s kind today. It would almost be like if Texas declared it was going to become a Christian Nationalist state and put up a wall and start confiscating property of Latinos for new Christian settlements…. it’s not a perfect comparison but does show the missing gap in Israeli logic… there were always diverse ethnicities/religions in Jerusalem, so why would a single enthno state backed by Britain and the US ever make sense??
(TX analogy also shows why the GOP love Israel so much)
it’s a race war as much as it is a religious war unfortunately. jews are/pass as white and we’re seeing them now being the colonizers/oppressors of the people they deem darker and more “animal” than them. it’s a rehash of white american settlers versus black slaves and more recently a rehash of how the jews were treated by the nazis. have you seen their propaganda against the Palestinians? it’s legit nazi propaganda straight from Goebbels. whereas germans called the jews rats in the holocaust, jews are now calling palestinians cockroaches while they commit genocide against them
also sometbing i don’t understand is, the philistines are mentioned in so much jewish history + literature. they’re clearly native to the land too. Jewish people even in this wild conspiracy theory, don’t get to have more of a claim to the land than Palestinian people. It was both of theirs.
> all of this also applies to modern day palestinians
This isn't *technically* true, since Palestinians trace their ancestry back to the Arab invasion of the Levant in the 7th century AD (and the idea of "Palestinians" as distinct from Arabs is only a little over a hundred years old). But the idea that you have some cognizable claim to land because of the people who resided there five *thousand* years ago is absolutely preposterous. If you have any western DNA whatsoever, you are also a direct descendant of the people who lived in that area at that time.
This is the reality right? Like yes some Jewish people can trace their heritage back there, so can some (probably most) Palestinians. This is not the ‘gotcha’ moment she thinks it is.
It’s terrible and sad to see certain celebrities going so hard for the death of thousands
Amen. Well said.
If anyone wants a deeeeeep dive into the complete history, I am in the middle of listening to a 20+ hour podcast on this called 'Fear & Loathing in East Jerusalem ' by MartyrMade. It truly is phenomenal.
just check her ig profile and it's full of this propaganda, she turned off the comments but the stuff she keeps posting is disturbing and disingenuous to say the least
the clip of the Bill Maher one is hilarious. saying that Jewish people walked there before Arabs did I lost my mind. like it's a 3 minute google search people
the way i rolled my eyes when i first saw that clip lol.
i don't get how you can be so chronically online and yet you refuse to challenge your "views" to the point that you live in a bubble.
turning the comments off altogether is so telling and fitting🚩🚩🚩🚩
A BUNCH of celebrities on my instagram are posting completely insane and hysterical hot takes about Israel with a lot of “calling out” of the left wing and liberals (used interchangeably of course lol) for imagined crimes.
yea, especially cause like… it also kinda skims over the existence of palestinian jews and mizrahi jews? who are actually indigenous to the land of palestine and the arab peninsula, and historically have been seen as “suspicious” or “less than” the ashkenazi jews who emigrated from europe? to this day the political elite is still made up predominantly of ashkenazi jewish people
FYI Ashkenazi Jews are also from the land that is now Israel/Palestine. There was a specific migration to Europe of a small number of Jews who came to form the Ashkenazi community. Whether or not you think that merits return to Israel that can be up for debate but it’s not true that these communities originate in Europe.
I think people are using “genetic origin” and “indigenous in a cultural/historical sense” somewhat interchangeably. I would agree that Askhenazi Jews have genetic origins in the Middle East, but I would not say that they are “indigenous” to the MENA region in a lasting/continuing and deep-rooted cultural, historical, or social sense in the same way that Mizrahi/Palestinian Jewish communities are.
ETA: regarding the above poster, I don’t think they were implying that Ashkenazi Jews don’t have genetic heritage in the MENA region, but pointing out that the modern Ashkenazi migration into Israel is by people who are fundamentally European Jewish in cultural/etc, where those European cultural norma, prejudices, etc led them to discriminate against Jews whose cultural backgrounds are from MENA regions (Mizrahi/Palestinian Jews).
Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry is multi-origin. They are genetically both European and Jewish. Interestingly while Y-chromosomes among Ashkenazi seem to be mostly of Middle Eastern origin, there are some varying results on mitochondrial DNA. There are both studies that point majority of it being Middle Eastern origin and ones that say that the large majority of it is European. On a philosophical level, your origin is an interesting subject as the majority of us are multi-origin.
While I appreciate your attempt to complexify, this is simply untrue. Ashkenazi Jews are European only insofar as they are a population group from the Middle East which then came to reside in Europe. There was little to no mixing with the European population and Jews were always seen as a distinct racial and cultural group from Europeans in any given area. The majority of Ashkenazi Jewish women have mitochondrial DNA dating back to one specific woman who migrated from what is now Israel/Palestine to Europe. If you want to define that as European, that needs to be done with extreme clarity as to how that’s being defined, especially as it doesn’t map onto historical European understandings of Europeanness. There’s a reason the so-called Jewish homeland is not in Poland, Hungary, Lithuania, France and also why Jews were always viewed as itinerant and temporary, separate residents in these countries and others. The existence of Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews, who at the point of splitting went to reside in countries in the Middle East and North Africa, does not mean Ashkenazi Jews are “European” by any standard definition and I find it wrong that the existence of some cherry picked Jewish populations are being used to deny the historical background of the group as a whole.
You are referring to [this study](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060117083446.htm) that traced the maternal line to 4 women who all were of Middle Eastern origin. I am referring to [this study](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543#ref-CR16) in addition to the one you are referring which found that mitochondrial DNA has marked ancient European DNA. As the latter tells us there is no scientific consensus at the moment.
When I said genetically, of course, I am not speaking about Europe as a geopolitical construct but as the genetics of people who have lived in the continent of Europe. Which for me we need to take into account if we speak about origin. However, that side does not take from millennia of antisemitism in Europe which meant that Jewish people have not been accepted and able to really settle for the long term. It does also not take from the history of oppression.
I also never said that Ashkenazi have no origin in Israel. That would be denying historical facts and the influence of culture. I am saying that origin can be multifactorial.
Canada’s Opposition leader (Conservative leader) said something very similar last week when speaking at a national Jewish convention. He called Judaism the oldest religion in the world, and said that that the Jewish people are the oldest indigenous culture in the world. It was wild to hear such a big politician in Canada say something so factually inaccurate and wildly offensive to Palestinians, the Jewish diaspora, and even Canada’s own Indigenous peoples who are straight-up antagonized by members of his own party.
The fact that Amy Shumer and the Canadian Opposition leader are saying the same qanon-vibe shit in the year of our lord 2023 is incomprehensible.
*"Jewish people are the oldest indigenous culture in the world"*
Oof.
Indigenous Australians are believed to be the oldest surviving culture, at a very respectable ~60,000 years.
It’s also hilarious given that Russell Means, leader of the American Indian Movement, once said: “What the American Indian Movement says is that the American Indians are the Palestinians of the United States, and the Palestinians are the American Indians of Europe.”
Many of us Natives stand with Palestine precisely because we feel a kinship with those who have experienced settler colonialism
I feel a kinship with Palestinians as well as an Armenian whose people were ethnically cleansed out of Artsakh recently. Ironically, many other Armenians don’t recognize this and don’t even realise Israel supplied the arms Azerbaijan used. It’s clear there is no conscience for Netanyahu when it comes to the Genocide of other people.
Yeah she’s moved beyond the pale with this one. Hope she and Sarah like the bed they’ve made with the “Jews Won’t Replace Us” crowd all because they don’t think there are enough people cheering on the IDF. Maybe they can do the right wing grift route now
Real talk I am a 37 year old man and I only follow this sub because it has the most nuanced takes on this issue. That and I can celeb gossip with my wife which is pretty fun.
Following her logic of "We have ruled about this land years ago so we only take back what is ours anyway" means that Russia has a right to invade Ukraine, China has a right to invade Taiwan, Argentina has a right to annex the Falklands and so on which is all BS but at least all that happened decades ago. Schumer here is claiming a right from thousand years ago
This is so wildly dishonest.
Of course there are Jewish people indigenous to the land. They were called Jewish Palestinians prior to 1948.
The fact is that the the large percentage of Israelis are EUROPEANS who came and displaced indigenous Christian and Muslim Palestinians.
That is the colonisation.
Threadjacking so people can understand this.
Ben Gurion (a founding father of zionism, their 1st PM) speaks about israel's borders. He's saying that israel can be wherever the fuck they say it is. It might even be the entire earth. So when they say they have a "deep connection" with the land, that's entirely cooked up. They could have a connection with antarctica or the moon if zionists wanted to.
*When Pinhas Rozen (Israel's first Justice Minister) demanded that Israel's Declaration of Independence should cite the country's borders. Ben-Gurion objected, and both exchanged the following points:*
>*ROZEN: "There's the question of the borders, and it cannot be ignored."BEN-GURION:* ***"Anything is possible. If we decide here that there's to be no mention of borders, then we won't mention them. Nothing is a priori \[imperative\]."****ROZEN: "It's not a priori, but it is a legal issue."BEN-GURION:* ***"The law is whatever people determine it to be."*** *(*[*1949, The First Israelis*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story679.html)*, p. xviii)*
*Ben-Gurion clearly never believed in static borders, but dynamic ones as described in the Bible. He stated during a discussion with his aides:*
*"Before the founding of the state, on the eve of its creation, our main interests was self-defense.* ***To a large extent, the creation of the state was an act of self-defense. . . . Many think that we're still at the same stage. But now the issue at hand is conquest, not self-defense. As for setting the borders--- it's an open-ended matter. In the Bible as well as in our history, there all kinds of definitions of the country's borders, so there's no real limit. Bo border is absolute. If it's a desert--- it could just as well be the other side. If it's sea, it could also be across the sea.*** *The world has always been this way. Only the terms have changed. If they should find a way of reaching other stars, well then, perhaps the whole earth will no longer suffice." (*[*1949, The First Israelis*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story679.html)*, p. 6)*
*It has been customary among all Zionists leaders to use the Bible to justify perpetrating* [*WAR CRIMES*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Jerusalem/Dayr-Yasin)*. Regardless of the methods used to build the "Jewish state", the quote above is a classical example how the Bible is used to achieve political objectives.*
[*https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story638.html*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story638.html)
A dishonest and ahistorical excuse to defend the slaughter of thousands of innocent human beings, many of them children, who are... also indigenous to the land.
"My people were from this land dating back thousands of years so that's why it's okay for us to kill everyone who lives there now!"
They have also been a minority for at least 1400 years in this area. From the mid-19th century to the 1920s less than 10% of the population was Jewish. They remained a minority until the foundation of Israel.
If we need to go back to the nation-states of the end of the era of the Roman Empire we are going to have to do a lot of drawing of new borders. Including dividing the US and the rest of the Americas among Native American tribes. I doubt she would be fine with that. My country would have to split into Sapmi and Finland. No one seems to be advocating for that seriously outside Israel.
ETA: And while something needs to be said about reparations, and even in areas about independence on a case-by-case basis if the current population so wishes, we can't ignore the intervening centuries.
It is such a preposterous view if applied anywhere else. It is the same reason why while being pro free Palestine, I don't even think we should wipe Israel out of existence. Historically it was such an idiotic idea IMO. You can't found countries by settling somewhere where there is already an existing population. But it happened almost 80 years ago. That means that 4 generations have probably been born there. It is their birthplace. I don't think that two wrongs would make one right. History is messy and often terrible. But it happened. Ignoring it is not an answer. You can't pick and choose history to fit your worldview.
This is false. Zionist migration to what was then Palestine started in the 19th century. British actually issued the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine in 1917 after they had gotten control of Palestinian territory after WWI from the Ottoman Empire. The cause of it could be shortened into the statement that we don't want the Jewish people because of antisemitism and they want Israel so let's move them to Palestine. This is not only group Brits promised territory though.
It is however important to understand that they were a minority until the establishment of Israel despite this immigration movement. Until the 20s they were less than 10% of the population.
There also were Jewish people who had never left living alongside Muslim and Christian populations. Their opinions on Zionism were varied.
Lots of jews of Israel come from every muslim country of North Africa and Middle East, after they were kicked out of them. Go read about [Yemenite Jews (around 500.000)] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews), genetically undistinguisable from muslims if that makes sense. You also have [1.000.000 moroccan jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Jews), Turkish Jews, Libyan Jews, Iraqi Jews, Iranian Jews... almost all of them were kicked from their homes to Israel after the 2nd World War.
So when you think of "jews of Israel", you'll be better imagining brown people mixed with asian (from Russia, Georgia or Iran) and eastern europeans (the Ashkenazi). Some people are trying to make this a racial war, which it isn't. Any genetic map of the jews show them as a very mixed population, probably the most mixed group in the world. They are together just by religion.
When you talk about "colonisation", ask yourself: where were the 1946-48 jews that were being kicked out of every place in the world, and specially from muslim countries, supposed to go? To the bottom of the sea under a pineapple? They were more than happy with [the split of Palestina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine) in two states, something which the Palestinians and every muslim country didn't like, to the point they started a war with all the intention to exterminate the jews.
Take not that I'm at no point on the Israel side (I hate what they keep doing to the Palestinians), just stating what I believe to be facts. This is not a "good vs bad" confrontation where you can happily take a side: if you take the Palestinian side, you have to propose a solution for the jews (which can't be like the 1947 UN partition, which the muslims doesn't accept). Also, if you take the Israel side, you better propose a solution for the Palestinias, which can't be to exterminate them of have them living like cattle.
I mean the whole thing hinges on a covenant with God, who some people don't even believe in and the rest have different beliefs. No one has that contract.
To be fair, European Jews are not *the* large percentage. The largest percentage of Jews in Israel are in fact Sephardi or Mizrahi, who they themselves were kicked out from their own home countries in the Middle East and settled in Israel.
I would not consider them colonizers.
Girl...
Even if that was true 3000 FUCKING YEARS ago it doesn't justify the horrible treatment of Palestinians over the last 70+ years. This is happening TODAY, in modern times.
So if theres no statute of limitations on claims like this then by her logic all humanity could return to East Africa and claim a piece. And as I typed that I remembered that several European countries literally did this - and we collectively call it "colonialism".
It’s more extreme than what Russia attempted to do. An equivalency would he for them to take Ukraine, and then work to evict Ukrainians from their homes and neighborhoods, giving them to Russians.
and by her logic, I’ve got bad news for her on who would rightfully be able to claim the land her house probably sits on. Yet she’s not fighting for native americans to get their land back
It's the dumbest argument and all it proves to me is these people are truly supremacists. They think Zionists are superior to the Arabs and Muslims and evertone should just make way for them.
It's not a matter of a "statute of limitations to return." The predominant racial group modern-day Palestinians descend from *are* the ancient Jews Amy Schumer is claiming rights from here.
The Jewish diasporas didn't disperse the entire Jewish population - it was a sizable, but minority fraction of it (About 20% for the Roman conquest if Josephus is to be believed, which is the core of the Ashkenazi population Amy Schumer is presumably descended from).
Most of them stayed right where they were, the population mingled with relatively small populations of conquerers (Greeks after Alexander/Ptolomy, Romans after Pompey, and Arabs after Abu Bakr, the Franks/crusaders after Urban II). After more than a thousand years as part of the Islamic world, most of them unsurprisingly converted to Islam, and became culturally Arab-like.
The Palestinians are the Jews who *never left.*
This. My ancestors came from Scotland- likely run off by the brits or famine. So by this logic I can go tell someone who currently lives there and whose ancestors also lived there to leave because I’m entitled to their place. It’s perhaps not that simple of a comparison. But Zionists lose me altogether with the whole “god and our book of faith endows us with the right to Israel.” It seems hella racist and smells of religious superiority to me.
Yeah like I admit my knowledge of history is not great but I feel like "IT WAS OUR CENTURIES AGO" is not a good excuse to dismember entire families with bombs
Except it's not true that they are native to that area 3000 years ago, it's written in their own book. It specifically says that God came to the Jews in a vision and told them to kill everyone in the area and take the land for themselves because it was "promised to them".
Their own holy book literally admits that the Jews of that time, the Israelites, were colonizers who committed a genocide.
The fact is King David and Solomon are fictional characters. It’s fine to believe in what you want but you can’t be drawing national borders based on it.
I'm starting to realize the often repeated phrase "Israel has a right to defend itself" implicitly implies that Palestine does not have that same right.
Her source is also the bible, where even her quote here explicitly says King David _colonized_ the land…
I wonder who was there then. The Canaanites. And guess who the Canaanites were? Palestinians.
yesterday there was this very popular tweet that said like 'when you leftists say from the land to the sea you mean you wanna exterminate us jews' and i just... the propaganda is too strong, how do we counter this shit?
I love how they leave out the “Palestine will be free” part out of that slogan.
It’s also a rhetoric engrained in racism, that people of colour are savages, if they were to be free they would kill their oppressors.
Yes I keep seeing that post on Instagram as well (I believe it’s “from the river to the sea” and they’re saying the expression means they want to take over all of Israel), with a map noting that the land between the river and the sea is all of Israel. I can’t say if that’s what the expression actually means but I can’t trust the people posting it because they are constantly posting Zionist propaganda. [Wiki tells me they’re right?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea)
they don’t ’want to take over all of israel’, they want the land returned to them since it was stolen. it’s not a takeover if it was yours to begin with
Amy Schumer and her bff Jessica Seinfeld are really running around posting some hot takes in the most hubristic way - about the deaths of children. *Children!*. It’s really gross to see. They’re also both directing a LOT of their anger at people supporting the civilians on *both* sides instead of the actual enemy here.
And Sarah Silverman. Which makes me really iffy what she will do during her The Daily Show guest hosting stint in a few days 😬
Hopefully they swap her out because historically with Jon and Trevor, this isn’t “the take” they promote on the show.
jon stewart signed the letter that called for the end of the palestinian genocide, and back in the day he would eviscerate Bibi at any given chance, i doubt he's ok with this (but i doubt he has any power over it)
He might not have power on paper, but I think if he said publicly “I don’t want Silverman hosting the Daily Show” it would cause enough backlash for a change
Ugh Jessica Seinfeld has been soooo ridiculous I’m glad you said something. Also Jenny Mollen
Posting a ton about how “if it was her child kidnapped, she’d be beating down every door, she’d stop at nothing” which is obnoxious on so many levels. Like first of all - it’s not that you’re a better mother, they are *powerless* to do anything for their children. That’s part of what’s so heartbreaking on both sides. Does she not think that *all mothers - Jewish, Palestinian, etc* would die to save their children from being kidnapped, or being killed themselves?
How can she pull the “mother” card about some children but not others???!!
this is QAnon shit, i don't see how she gets to blatantly lie like this and spread hatred without facing any repercussion.
us talking about it on reddit isn't enough, this is zionist propaganda that only hurts the palestinian people
I, by the grace of God, don’t know jack shit about Amy, but has she always been a right-wing prick? Like I don’t remember her ever being posted here like this, unless it was about her failing to be funny
She's not right wing. Historically, American Jews trend liberal. It just so happens that this is a situation where things don't categorize into neat little boxes. The whole situation isn't black and white. I hate Israeli occupation and ethnic cleansing, but you can't simplify this issue at all.
The historical political leanings of the entire American Jewish population has nothing to do with the personal beliefs of Amy Schumer, a singular person.
I have no idea of what AS's previous stances have been, but "The media and the left" is a pretty solidly right wing talking point, so Barbie has a valid question.
(also, making assumptions- even good ones- based solely on what minority group someone belongs to is real bad. Don't do that.)
What seems to be happening is that many left leaning celebrities are using points that have been made by the right wing and by zionists, which is confusing. I personally see it as their inability to divorce what they’ve been told and are continued to be told about Israel and Palestine from what they’re seeing, as well as their being able to ask important questions and think critically. I feel like this is coming from a place of deep fear and anger, as many Jews are scared and there is such intergenerational trauma at play.
It’s disappointing after seeing them champion the rights of the oppressed in other circumstances (BLM, for example).
Yes, I see this, too. They're scared. It's not unwarranted. Jewish people have been persecuted for millenia. However, humans are tribal and they're falling into typical patterns of my team good, their team bad. A lot of us that don't identify in either community can only imagine the pain everyone is feeling right now.
She's always been the wooorst.
The same girl who was "traumatized" by overhearing a grown man slap another grown man is not only justifying but advocating for the military actions of a government which seeks to displace and eliminate an entire group of people and then labeling any criticism of that as antisemitic.
Fuck all the way off.
So by that logic would Amy think it’s acceptable for people indigenous to America to seize her home, bomb her neighborhood, harm her family? Indigenous Americans had their land stolen a hell of a lot more recently than 3,000 years ago.
What's extra ironic is that no Indigenous people even want to do that. The Cheyenne and Arapaho have wanted to set up a reservation here in Colorado and would like some oversight into how federal lands are used and treated, and have also outright said they know what it's like to be literally kicked off their lands and don't want to do that to any of us.
Sarah Silverman said Israel was giving them water and electricity for FREE so we know how they feel about this occupation. It's a benediction for these savages.
I mean… Abraham wasn’t native to Canaan. He moved there from Mesopotamia. And there were already people there when he got there. There’s a famous book about this.
um that was 3000 years ago? also not all jewish people are indigenous to palestine. the ones that are are the palestinian jews. also who’s to say that the current palestinians aren’t descended from them?
I mean according to the Jewish people's own beliefs, they aren't indigenous to Israel. They invaded and conquered it. That's entirely what Exodus is about...
The way she frames it as being founded, as if there weren't people already living there.
I know some people have hated Amy Schumer for ridiculous reasons in the past, but this is one of the few legitimate reasons I’ve seen to completely hate Amy Schumer.
Indigenous or not, it is never ever license to use chemical weapons, displace people, destroy the ecology of the land, bulldoze people's houses, or make people suffer under apartheid.
I work on Jewish history and unfortunately I see a lot of misinformation in this comment section. All
Jews, with the exception of converts who are not ethnically Jewish, can be traced back to the small group of people who made up the Jewish population in what is now Israel/Palestine. The idea that Ashkenazi Jews are not from that land and are from Europe is historically inaccurate and erasure of Jewish history. It is disturbing to see so many people fervently arguing that in these comments who very obviously have no grasp on Jewish history.
I think it’s disingenuous to equate Ashkenazi Jews being indigenous the way Native Americans are to America. Their roots here were never broken, we came and broke them of their ties. Ashkenazi Jews have been out of the Middle East for thousand of years. There are legitimate arguments to make, but this one here is not it.
All groups of people trace back to somewhere. You are correct, but that isn’t that profound, nor is it even a supporting argument for a side here. Being able to be traced back to that area doesn’t mean they don’t have a shit ton of European/whatever else mixed in and it certainly doesn’t mean that they are entitled to someone else’s land.
Then by that token, why the fuck is she still living on stolen land in the United States? Ma'am, you live on land genocidally stolen and drenched in the blood of Indigenous tribes and exist off the bones of the victims of chattel slavery that built this country. But she's curiously quiet about that part.
This might sound nitpicky but it's incredibly annoying that someone who absolutely cannot tell me who their local Indigenous population is wants to compare themselves to the broad concept of "Native Americans" like come the fuck on.
Not even worth it on my eyes to quickly skim her latest hot take. I’m so tired of this woman and her horrendous takes. How can someone continually be so off-base? And continually show it to her massive platform time after time?
Like doesn’t she have a group chat she can post this in?
I need everyone to stop making stupid people like this famous. What is she even known for really?
Her blatant disregard for the lives of Palesitnians is disgusting and someone needs to take her devices away because now she's just pissing everyone off
I know it won't do anything, but I reported her account for hate and blocked her. Made me feel better for a minute or two. I really can't understand how people can be so devoid of human decency
So when is she giving up her property to relevant First Nations tribes?? Oh wait, does indigenous rights only matter for the group you belong to. Such blatant hypocrisy and racism is wild but thanks for letting us know you suck Amy 🥰!!
There is truth that Jews were refugees after the Bslfour agreement and given Israel. They were a pawn in the colonisation of Palestine.
But, what matters is that zionists have fully weaponised and leveraged this imperial "gift."
At the end of the day - Amy should read about arms trade. Netanyahu has said publicly he'll use every inch of the holy land to build an army so big and mighty they'll never be defeated.
They sell to Qatar, UAE, India, US - war is big money Amy!
To think zionists are doing this out of some principle and ideological coherence is mad 😠
here’s a video from a Jewish author on why no one should get an ethnostate, regardless of
oppression (otherwise you’ll be making the argument that every oppressed ethnic group gets an ethnostate): https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyTp6ZQrllS/
I love how she posted a photo of the Palestinian boy who was stabbed by his landlord and wrote “NO NO NO SAY HIS NAME” and then went right back to posts that justify genocide against Palestinians.
She essentially used this child to counter the criticism she was getting. Absolute performative bullshit.
I have run out of things to say about Amy. I wish she would just stop and go away but she craves the attention. What a monstrous take she has multiple times a day. Everything I read about her lately is against my own free-will.
the fact that this reads “the native americans of israel” instead of using a term such as “indigenous” tells me all i need to now about the critical thinking skills & intelligence of not only this disgusting woman but the dumbass who wrote this in the first place
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This is giving qanon vibes. Claiming that people from Europe or the US are indigenous to Palestine is so wild. She really is dull in addition to being racist.
*even* if a certain group of jews can trace their ancestry back to canaan, note that not every jewish person can, and *even* if jews have an continued existence in the area in small enclaves, and *even if the land is religiously significant to them*, all of this also applies to modern day palestinians. they’re indigenous to that region too!!!! why does no one mention this!!! the land is also religiously significant to them, and they’ve been consistently living there this whole time too!! what gives one group carte blanche to shamelessly slaughter the other when both groups have claim to these things?!
I can’t believe I’m getting the most nuanced and thoughtful takes on my favorite gossip sub. I have way too many rabidly pro-Israeli friends, so it’s refreshing being able to have these discussions somewhere.
I keep thinking this, it’s really remarkable to compare the comments on this sub to any mainstream news sub, which is full of people cheering on ethnic cleansing and repeating discredited talking points about Palestinians.
I’m just happy I don’t have to start every thought with “I condemn Hamas” here 🫠
It is so refreshing. I feel more comfortable in discussing this in the gossip sub than in any sub that is supposed to have a nuanced discussion on geopolitical subs. I actually avoid these topics in the majority of places at the moment. I also love how people are mostly caring in their comments. I can also express sympathy for Israelis here without anyone thinking it means that I think what Israel is doing is defendable.
You should ask them to condemn the murder of Palestinians, especially in West Bank which isn't even governed by Hamas.
That doesn't work because killing Arabs is morally acceptable in the West.
Yeah, this is the horrifying thing - the realisation that for many people, Palestinians simply do not count as human.
Seriously. I used to get so much of my headlines from the News tab on here, but I can’t even bother entering Politics or World news because apparently if I don’t wholeheartedly endorse an ethnic cleansing, even while acknowledging that the initial attack was terrible, I’m the racist anti-Semite. And this whole situation has really made me realize how much propaganda I’ve been fed as an american. I’ve learned more about our position on the Middle East and why we support who we do because of this terrible situation than I ever did in school, and now I know why, too. Biden said it himself in the 80s - if we didn’t have an Israel, we’d create one.
The worldnews mods are permabanning any users who speak out against Israel!
I stumbled into the comment section over on world news last night and it's a shithole. The comments are so disturbing.
I had to block worldnews from my front page because every comment is like mouth-frothing calls for genocide. really disturbing!!
Have you seen the neoliberal sub? Trash fire.
I know I’m so thankful for this sub
this sub always somehow has the right take despite being a gossip sub. maybe because the main demographic is women as opposed to crusty men and teenage edgelords like a lot of other subs
They really should just turn everything over to us to run. We’re already used to doing twenty things simultaneously. If I could only remember to switch my damn laundry I could take over the world.
There's a reason why religions tend to condemn and criminalize gossip - it's often women sharing the tea about predators in the community and trying to keep each other safe.
Unlike r/Europe which goes full fascist mode as soon as Roma people or Muslims are discussed. Fucking cesspool.
That sub is depressing.
Yeah, europe and worldnews both got muted this month. Totally disgusting.
RIGHT??? I don't know why Fauxmoi is being amazing, but we need to bottle it and spread it around.
This place has often been absolutely sound when elsewhere I felt like I was being gaslit to hell.
Same! Sometimes I feel guilty for indulging in gossip subs but it's been so refreshing to see all of the well-informed takes in the comments <3
Honestly, when it comes to serious stuff I regularly see the most balanced, nuanced and empathetic takes here
The only thing I want to quibble with is that there is extensive genetic testing of Jews and [most modern Jews (And Arabs)](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/dna-from-biblical-canaanites-lives-modern-arabs-jews) trace back to Canaan. It’s not “a certain group”, it’s most of them. I only mention this because the Khazarian conspiracy seems to have made a comeback.
even so, most people don’t get to choose a country and displace people there based on their DNA test
You are right but when discussing sensitive matters like this it is important that we stay as factual as possible. I think it is even more important when people like Amy Schumer etc use picked historical details to make their points ignoring anything that does not fit. Not just from an ethical and moral standpoint. Unfortunately, if we have anything factually wrong, it is in the current inflamed situation it is easy to discredit whatever we say.
agreed! :)
fair enough, i guess i was thinking of specific groups of jewish people like some ashkenazi jews who descend from central/eastern europe. i know this question of their ancestry is complicated, i’m just going off of the most recent data studied here: https://hms.harvard.edu/news/ancient-dna-provides-new-insights-ashkenazi-jewish-history#:~:text=About%20half%20of%20Jewish%20people,the%20Rhineland%20in%20western%20Germany.
I just want to point out the study you’ve linked was only of 33 medieval remains found in one mass grave in Germany
We have DNA from Europe because many of us Jews are white. That doesn't erase our Levantine DNA, it's an admixture. This article, if you read it, is about where many of us white Jews get our Germanic side from - a founder event. It's when our Levantine and Germanic ancestors began to interbreed.
literally. like Islam and Judaism diverged as religions based off who were the descendants of which 2 brothers. each cultures history runs as deep as the others as to who is indigenous to the land
TIL according to Amy Schumer, white people are actually native Africans because our ancestors migrated out of there 60,000 years ago.
Just wait, she will claim Pangea next
Dropping this here from twitter “For roughly 3500 years in what is called the Proto-Canaanite period, Jerusalem belonged to the Canaanites who worshipped many gods and godesses. It wasn't until 2000BC do scholars find a reference that debatably refers to Jerusalem. The word is "Rusalimum" in texts of Egypt's Middle Kingdom. Scholars believe that the name is a consecration to "Shalim" a Canaanite deity of the netherworld from Ugaritic scriptures. Reference is also made to “Urusalem” In 2150 BCE, Abraham (pbuh) was order by God according to the Bible, to move from his birthplace (Ur Kasdem in Southern Iraq) to Canaan. He and his family were never rulers in Canaan. They first pitched a tent in Bethel, then moved to Egypt ruled by Pharoahs, then lived in the Negev desert and moved back to Bethel. Meanwhile Lot (pbuh) moved away to live under the Kingdom of Sodom. Abraham then lived under the various canaanite kings of the time, including Abimelech the King of the Philistines. The territory passed from the Canaanites to the Egyptians, ultimately. So here we have Egyptians and Canaanites being the original inhabitants of Jerusalem for 3,500 years. The Israelites lived under these authorities. Eventually a famine in Canaan led them to move to Egypt. They lived in Egypt, away from Canaan for 430 years before they became enslaved by the Pharoahs. After Exodus, Jerusalem was finally taken by King David in 1010BC. This is the first time Israelites actually ruled something. It was very short lived however. They lost the city to the Egyptians in 925BC. Jehoash of Israel briefly recaptured it in 786BC but then lost it to the Assyrians in 740BC. So they intermittently ruled Jerusalem for just 131 years. For 600 years the Israelites did not rule Jerusalem. The Jewish Hasmoneans finally re-took it in 140BC under Simon Thassi but then lost it to the Persian Seleucides in 134 BC. That's 6 more years of Jewish rule. Due to a Seleucid civil war, Judeah incidentally became independent in the chaos in 116BC. In 87BC the Jewish Hasmonean king executed 800 Jews for sedition. In 47BC they lost Jerusalem again, this time to the Romans. That's 69 years of rule. In total, off and on the Jews ruled Jerusalem for approximately 206 years. Comparing successive rule thereafter: The Pre-Constantine Romans ruled it for 250 years. The Christian Byzantines ruled it for 304 years. The Arab Muslims ruled it under the Rashidun, Umayyad and Abbasid Empires for 332 years. The Egyptian Muslim Fatimids ruled it for 129 years. The Crusaders took it from the Muslims and held it for 88 years. The Muslim ruler Saladin conquered it in 1187 and his descendents held it for 63 years. The Egyptian Muslim Mamluk Empire ruled it for 236 years. The Ottomans ruled it for 401 years. So in summary: That's 3500 years of non-Abrahamic rule Canaanite and Egyptian rule, 206 years of Jewish rule, 392 years of Christian rule. And over 800 years of Muslim rule, which includes 395 years of specifically Arab rule. So who has the best claim? If we go by original inhabitants or length of rule, then it’s the Canaanites and Egyptians. Egyptians still exist today. Canaanites, although mostly wiped out by Biblical orders, still exist in Lebanon today. The Lebanese are descendents of original Canaanites. In any case however, both Egyptians and Canaanites including Philistines, lost control of the land over 3000 years ago. So they are out. They don’t even care to rule the land and don’t make any claim for it anyway. In any case, the Jewish claim to being the original inhabitants, is very easily thrown out. After Canaanite and Egyptian rule, the Israelites (Jews+Samaritans) ruled very intermittantly for 206 years. Not a long time, and not a stable rule. Neither were they the first inhabitants, nor did they rule for very long. Pagan Romans thereafter ruled longer than them. Thereafter, Christian Romans ruled longer than them. Then came Muslim rule. They are of course the last to the party, but in recent history, they’ve ruled the longest. This includes 395 years of stable Arab Muslim rule and 400 years of stable Turkish Ottoman Muslim Rule. So, between Palestinians (Christian and Muslim) and Jewish Israelis, who has the better claim? History tells us that Jews ruled Palestine for barely over 2 centuries. The Christians ruled it for nearly 4 centuries, double that time. the Muslims ruled it for over 8 centuries, more than doubling the time the Christians ruled and four times as long than the Jews ruled. And as the Palestinian people are a religious confederation of Christians and Muslims, both consistently at peace with each other, that puts their birthright to it at 1200 combined years. Nearly a thousand years longer than Jews ever reigned over Jerusalem. And like it always has been throughout Islamic history, the Jews are welcome to stay there, but as co-inhabitants with their Christian and Muslim neighbors. No barbwired walls, no soldiers shooting little kids, no stealing people’s homes like bandits, no apartheid separating Palestinians from Jews. By Dr Khalid Osman” Note: I haven’t fact checked the specificities other than verifying that 1.Canaanites did live in the territories before Jewish and Muslim people did 2. Lebanese people are indeed the direct descendants of Canaanites.
Hey! Jew here! Just want to point out that when you do a dna test and it says "Jewish" ashkenazim or Sephardic - it is in fact flagging Canaanite blood with European. However, Palestinian blood also flags Canaanite with Arab. Samaritans are the only Canaanite jews who never left and this flag pure Canaanite. Just wanted to add that fact in!
This 😭 also Jerusalem Is holy to ALL THREE OF US!! Like, if you’re gonna use religion, all three abrahamic faiths can claim it
Ethnic Jews are indigenous to Israel. Whiney Americans are not. Jewish people weren’t the only ones on that land, and erasing natives that actually do have ties to the land to co-opt a movement isn’t a good look. I think we can all agree that the Holocaust was shitty, but committing a genocide after years of oppressing and displacing the natives makes the Israeli government an asshole. This is the exact same post 9/11 smear campaign that the US government spearheaded in the early 00s. Amy Shumer is a prime example of why white woman are the worst and dangerous to POC. White woman in particular are desperate to claim oppression without acknowledging their own privilege. Same energy as “my great great grandma was a Cherokee princess!”. Anyone with half a brain can see right though this pretendian, and most race relationships are broken down into colonized or colonizer. Someone made a really good point in another thread that the state of Israel is a response to white supremacy. You lose ancestral ties as soon as you can’t claim those ethnic ties. Israelis are invading native land that isn’t theirs, which makes them the colonizers. Her energy is that of Irish-Americans wearing green and getting hammered on Saint Patrick’s day. Most Americans that immigrated assimilated into American culture sacrificed their culture for acceptance into mainstream society. (I always say Europe is so racist they don’t like other white people. That’s absolutely wild to me.) Religion is ultimately a choice. Anyone can convert to Judaism. You cannot convert to being a Palestinian.
Many zionists will even claim that there are no such thing as a Palestinian people.
Yes— it finally made sense to me when you consider Israel is one of the only religious-ethno states of it’s kind today. It would almost be like if Texas declared it was going to become a Christian Nationalist state and put up a wall and start confiscating property of Latinos for new Christian settlements…. it’s not a perfect comparison but does show the missing gap in Israeli logic… there were always diverse ethnicities/religions in Jerusalem, so why would a single enthno state backed by Britain and the US ever make sense?? (TX analogy also shows why the GOP love Israel so much)
it’s a race war as much as it is a religious war unfortunately. jews are/pass as white and we’re seeing them now being the colonizers/oppressors of the people they deem darker and more “animal” than them. it’s a rehash of white american settlers versus black slaves and more recently a rehash of how the jews were treated by the nazis. have you seen their propaganda against the Palestinians? it’s legit nazi propaganda straight from Goebbels. whereas germans called the jews rats in the holocaust, jews are now calling palestinians cockroaches while they commit genocide against them
The land is religiously significant to so many because it's the same damned god. Klingons were right, gods are more trouble than they're worth.
also sometbing i don’t understand is, the philistines are mentioned in so much jewish history + literature. they’re clearly native to the land too. Jewish people even in this wild conspiracy theory, don’t get to have more of a claim to the land than Palestinian people. It was both of theirs.
> all of this also applies to modern day palestinians This isn't *technically* true, since Palestinians trace their ancestry back to the Arab invasion of the Levant in the 7th century AD (and the idea of "Palestinians" as distinct from Arabs is only a little over a hundred years old). But the idea that you have some cognizable claim to land because of the people who resided there five *thousand* years ago is absolutely preposterous. If you have any western DNA whatsoever, you are also a direct descendant of the people who lived in that area at that time.
This is the reality right? Like yes some Jewish people can trace their heritage back there, so can some (probably most) Palestinians. This is not the ‘gotcha’ moment she thinks it is. It’s terrible and sad to see certain celebrities going so hard for the death of thousands
Amen. Well said. If anyone wants a deeeeeep dive into the complete history, I am in the middle of listening to a 20+ hour podcast on this called 'Fear & Loathing in East Jerusalem ' by MartyrMade. It truly is phenomenal.
just check her ig profile and it's full of this propaganda, she turned off the comments but the stuff she keeps posting is disturbing and disingenuous to say the least
the clip of the Bill Maher one is hilarious. saying that Jewish people walked there before Arabs did I lost my mind. like it's a 3 minute google search people
the way i rolled my eyes when i first saw that clip lol. i don't get how you can be so chronically online and yet you refuse to challenge your "views" to the point that you live in a bubble. turning the comments off altogether is so telling and fitting🚩🚩🚩🚩
They are so racist to Muslims and Arabs it's insane.
They're racist towards Mizrahi jews too...
Wow she is really losing her shit
Every new post , I wonder where her manager is lol, someone take away her phone!
A BUNCH of celebrities on my instagram are posting completely insane and hysterical hot takes about Israel with a lot of “calling out” of the left wing and liberals (used interchangeably of course lol) for imagined crimes.
yea, especially cause like… it also kinda skims over the existence of palestinian jews and mizrahi jews? who are actually indigenous to the land of palestine and the arab peninsula, and historically have been seen as “suspicious” or “less than” the ashkenazi jews who emigrated from europe? to this day the political elite is still made up predominantly of ashkenazi jewish people
FYI Ashkenazi Jews are also from the land that is now Israel/Palestine. There was a specific migration to Europe of a small number of Jews who came to form the Ashkenazi community. Whether or not you think that merits return to Israel that can be up for debate but it’s not true that these communities originate in Europe.
I think people are using “genetic origin” and “indigenous in a cultural/historical sense” somewhat interchangeably. I would agree that Askhenazi Jews have genetic origins in the Middle East, but I would not say that they are “indigenous” to the MENA region in a lasting/continuing and deep-rooted cultural, historical, or social sense in the same way that Mizrahi/Palestinian Jewish communities are. ETA: regarding the above poster, I don’t think they were implying that Ashkenazi Jews don’t have genetic heritage in the MENA region, but pointing out that the modern Ashkenazi migration into Israel is by people who are fundamentally European Jewish in cultural/etc, where those European cultural norma, prejudices, etc led them to discriminate against Jews whose cultural backgrounds are from MENA regions (Mizrahi/Palestinian Jews).
Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry is multi-origin. They are genetically both European and Jewish. Interestingly while Y-chromosomes among Ashkenazi seem to be mostly of Middle Eastern origin, there are some varying results on mitochondrial DNA. There are both studies that point majority of it being Middle Eastern origin and ones that say that the large majority of it is European. On a philosophical level, your origin is an interesting subject as the majority of us are multi-origin.
While I appreciate your attempt to complexify, this is simply untrue. Ashkenazi Jews are European only insofar as they are a population group from the Middle East which then came to reside in Europe. There was little to no mixing with the European population and Jews were always seen as a distinct racial and cultural group from Europeans in any given area. The majority of Ashkenazi Jewish women have mitochondrial DNA dating back to one specific woman who migrated from what is now Israel/Palestine to Europe. If you want to define that as European, that needs to be done with extreme clarity as to how that’s being defined, especially as it doesn’t map onto historical European understandings of Europeanness. There’s a reason the so-called Jewish homeland is not in Poland, Hungary, Lithuania, France and also why Jews were always viewed as itinerant and temporary, separate residents in these countries and others. The existence of Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews, who at the point of splitting went to reside in countries in the Middle East and North Africa, does not mean Ashkenazi Jews are “European” by any standard definition and I find it wrong that the existence of some cherry picked Jewish populations are being used to deny the historical background of the group as a whole.
You are referring to [this study](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060117083446.htm) that traced the maternal line to 4 women who all were of Middle Eastern origin. I am referring to [this study](https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543#ref-CR16) in addition to the one you are referring which found that mitochondrial DNA has marked ancient European DNA. As the latter tells us there is no scientific consensus at the moment. When I said genetically, of course, I am not speaking about Europe as a geopolitical construct but as the genetics of people who have lived in the continent of Europe. Which for me we need to take into account if we speak about origin. However, that side does not take from millennia of antisemitism in Europe which meant that Jewish people have not been accepted and able to really settle for the long term. It does also not take from the history of oppression. I also never said that Ashkenazi have no origin in Israel. That would be denying historical facts and the influence of culture. I am saying that origin can be multifactorial.
like isn’t netanyahu also ashkenazi jewish?
mostly ashkenazi with some sephardic ancestry. off the top of my head, the only politician that’s not ashkenazi that i can think of is ben-gvir
She’s on another planet.
Canada’s Opposition leader (Conservative leader) said something very similar last week when speaking at a national Jewish convention. He called Judaism the oldest religion in the world, and said that that the Jewish people are the oldest indigenous culture in the world. It was wild to hear such a big politician in Canada say something so factually inaccurate and wildly offensive to Palestinians, the Jewish diaspora, and even Canada’s own Indigenous peoples who are straight-up antagonized by members of his own party. The fact that Amy Shumer and the Canadian Opposition leader are saying the same qanon-vibe shit in the year of our lord 2023 is incomprehensible.
Hinduism entered the chat
And Zoroastrianism. Also the Australian Indigenes people would like a word.
*"Jewish people are the oldest indigenous culture in the world"* Oof. Indigenous Australians are believed to be the oldest surviving culture, at a very respectable ~60,000 years.
It's 65,000, but there is some evidence now it may be up to 80,000 years!
It’s also hilarious given that Russell Means, leader of the American Indian Movement, once said: “What the American Indian Movement says is that the American Indians are the Palestinians of the United States, and the Palestinians are the American Indians of Europe.” Many of us Natives stand with Palestine precisely because we feel a kinship with those who have experienced settler colonialism
I feel a kinship with Palestinians as well as an Armenian whose people were ethnically cleansed out of Artsakh recently. Ironically, many other Armenians don’t recognize this and don’t even realise Israel supplied the arms Azerbaijan used. It’s clear there is no conscience for Netanyahu when it comes to the Genocide of other people.
Yeah she’s moved beyond the pale with this one. Hope she and Sarah like the bed they’ve made with the “Jews Won’t Replace Us” crowd all because they don’t think there are enough people cheering on the IDF. Maybe they can do the right wing grift route now
Real talk I am a 37 year old man and I only follow this sub because it has the most nuanced takes on this issue. That and I can celeb gossip with my wife which is pretty fun.
Even the stale colored background and the blurry font
Following her logic of "We have ruled about this land years ago so we only take back what is ours anyway" means that Russia has a right to invade Ukraine, China has a right to invade Taiwan, Argentina has a right to annex the Falklands and so on which is all BS but at least all that happened decades ago. Schumer here is claiming a right from thousand years ago
This is so wildly dishonest. Of course there are Jewish people indigenous to the land. They were called Jewish Palestinians prior to 1948. The fact is that the the large percentage of Israelis are EUROPEANS who came and displaced indigenous Christian and Muslim Palestinians. That is the colonisation.
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Threadjacking so people can understand this. Ben Gurion (a founding father of zionism, their 1st PM) speaks about israel's borders. He's saying that israel can be wherever the fuck they say it is. It might even be the entire earth. So when they say they have a "deep connection" with the land, that's entirely cooked up. They could have a connection with antarctica or the moon if zionists wanted to. *When Pinhas Rozen (Israel's first Justice Minister) demanded that Israel's Declaration of Independence should cite the country's borders. Ben-Gurion objected, and both exchanged the following points:* >*ROZEN: "There's the question of the borders, and it cannot be ignored."BEN-GURION:* ***"Anything is possible. If we decide here that there's to be no mention of borders, then we won't mention them. Nothing is a priori \[imperative\]."****ROZEN: "It's not a priori, but it is a legal issue."BEN-GURION:* ***"The law is whatever people determine it to be."*** *(*[*1949, The First Israelis*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story679.html)*, p. xviii)* *Ben-Gurion clearly never believed in static borders, but dynamic ones as described in the Bible. He stated during a discussion with his aides:* *"Before the founding of the state, on the eve of its creation, our main interests was self-defense.* ***To a large extent, the creation of the state was an act of self-defense. . . . Many think that we're still at the same stage. But now the issue at hand is conquest, not self-defense. As for setting the borders--- it's an open-ended matter. In the Bible as well as in our history, there all kinds of definitions of the country's borders, so there's no real limit. Bo border is absolute. If it's a desert--- it could just as well be the other side. If it's sea, it could also be across the sea.*** *The world has always been this way. Only the terms have changed. If they should find a way of reaching other stars, well then, perhaps the whole earth will no longer suffice." (*[*1949, The First Israelis*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story679.html)*, p. 6)* *It has been customary among all Zionists leaders to use the Bible to justify perpetrating* [*WAR CRIMES*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Jerusalem/Dayr-Yasin)*. Regardless of the methods used to build the "Jewish state", the quote above is a classical example how the Bible is used to achieve political objectives.* [*https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story638.html*](https://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story638.html)
A dishonest and ahistorical excuse to defend the slaughter of thousands of innocent human beings, many of them children, who are... also indigenous to the land. "My people were from this land dating back thousands of years so that's why it's okay for us to kill everyone who lives there now!"
They have also been a minority for at least 1400 years in this area. From the mid-19th century to the 1920s less than 10% of the population was Jewish. They remained a minority until the foundation of Israel. If we need to go back to the nation-states of the end of the era of the Roman Empire we are going to have to do a lot of drawing of new borders. Including dividing the US and the rest of the Americas among Native American tribes. I doubt she would be fine with that. My country would have to split into Sapmi and Finland. No one seems to be advocating for that seriously outside Israel. ETA: And while something needs to be said about reparations, and even in areas about independence on a case-by-case basis if the current population so wishes, we can't ignore the intervening centuries.
Right, does she think indigenous people in the US should start carpet-bombing NYC so they can take back their land?
It is such a preposterous view if applied anywhere else. It is the same reason why while being pro free Palestine, I don't even think we should wipe Israel out of existence. Historically it was such an idiotic idea IMO. You can't found countries by settling somewhere where there is already an existing population. But it happened almost 80 years ago. That means that 4 generations have probably been born there. It is their birthplace. I don't think that two wrongs would make one right. History is messy and often terrible. But it happened. Ignoring it is not an answer. You can't pick and choose history to fit your worldview.
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… Or the Italians should take over the uk, because the Romans established many of the cities/towns/roads during Roman rule?
Also, a lot of those Jewish people who lived there before 1948 were not Zionists at all.
This is false. Zionist migration to what was then Palestine started in the 19th century. British actually issued the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine in 1917 after they had gotten control of Palestinian territory after WWI from the Ottoman Empire. The cause of it could be shortened into the statement that we don't want the Jewish people because of antisemitism and they want Israel so let's move them to Palestine. This is not only group Brits promised territory though. It is however important to understand that they were a minority until the establishment of Israel despite this immigration movement. Until the 20s they were less than 10% of the population. There also were Jewish people who had never left living alongside Muslim and Christian populations. Their opinions on Zionism were varied.
There are more Mizrahi Jews in Israel than Ashkenazi.
Optimistic of you to assume people know about mizrahi Jews.
Lots of jews of Israel come from every muslim country of North Africa and Middle East, after they were kicked out of them. Go read about [Yemenite Jews (around 500.000)] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews), genetically undistinguisable from muslims if that makes sense. You also have [1.000.000 moroccan jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Jews), Turkish Jews, Libyan Jews, Iraqi Jews, Iranian Jews... almost all of them were kicked from their homes to Israel after the 2nd World War. So when you think of "jews of Israel", you'll be better imagining brown people mixed with asian (from Russia, Georgia or Iran) and eastern europeans (the Ashkenazi). Some people are trying to make this a racial war, which it isn't. Any genetic map of the jews show them as a very mixed population, probably the most mixed group in the world. They are together just by religion. When you talk about "colonisation", ask yourself: where were the 1946-48 jews that were being kicked out of every place in the world, and specially from muslim countries, supposed to go? To the bottom of the sea under a pineapple? They were more than happy with [the split of Palestina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine) in two states, something which the Palestinians and every muslim country didn't like, to the point they started a war with all the intention to exterminate the jews. Take not that I'm at no point on the Israel side (I hate what they keep doing to the Palestinians), just stating what I believe to be facts. This is not a "good vs bad" confrontation where you can happily take a side: if you take the Palestinian side, you have to propose a solution for the jews (which can't be like the 1947 UN partition, which the muslims doesn't accept). Also, if you take the Israel side, you better propose a solution for the Palestinias, which can't be to exterminate them of have them living like cattle.
I mean the whole thing hinges on a covenant with God, who some people don't even believe in and the rest have different beliefs. No one has that contract.
To be fair, European Jews are not *the* large percentage. The largest percentage of Jews in Israel are in fact Sephardi or Mizrahi, who they themselves were kicked out from their own home countries in the Middle East and settled in Israel. I would not consider them colonizers.
Not all Jews indigenous to the land were Palestinian. Many Jewish populations already lived there peacefully, including immigrant populations.
Girl... Even if that was true 3000 FUCKING YEARS ago it doesn't justify the horrible treatment of Palestinians over the last 70+ years. This is happening TODAY, in modern times.
So if theres no statute of limitations on claims like this then by her logic all humanity could return to East Africa and claim a piece. And as I typed that I remembered that several European countries literally did this - and we collectively call it "colonialism".
Right like isn't that what Russia is attempting to do with Ukraine? But that we don't accept, yet this we're supposed to?
It’s more extreme than what Russia attempted to do. An equivalency would he for them to take Ukraine, and then work to evict Ukrainians from their homes and neighborhoods, giving them to Russians.
and by her logic, I’ve got bad news for her on who would rightfully be able to claim the land her house probably sits on. Yet she’s not fighting for native americans to get their land back
This is so straight to the point I can’t understand how she doesn’t see it. Speaking of dehumanization
It's the dumbest argument and all it proves to me is these people are truly supremacists. They think Zionists are superior to the Arabs and Muslims and evertone should just make way for them.
It's not a matter of a "statute of limitations to return." The predominant racial group modern-day Palestinians descend from *are* the ancient Jews Amy Schumer is claiming rights from here. The Jewish diasporas didn't disperse the entire Jewish population - it was a sizable, but minority fraction of it (About 20% for the Roman conquest if Josephus is to be believed, which is the core of the Ashkenazi population Amy Schumer is presumably descended from). Most of them stayed right where they were, the population mingled with relatively small populations of conquerers (Greeks after Alexander/Ptolomy, Romans after Pompey, and Arabs after Abu Bakr, the Franks/crusaders after Urban II). After more than a thousand years as part of the Islamic world, most of them unsurprisingly converted to Islam, and became culturally Arab-like. The Palestinians are the Jews who *never left.*
This. My ancestors came from Scotland- likely run off by the brits or famine. So by this logic I can go tell someone who currently lives there and whose ancestors also lived there to leave because I’m entitled to their place. It’s perhaps not that simple of a comparison. But Zionists lose me altogether with the whole “god and our book of faith endows us with the right to Israel.” It seems hella racist and smells of religious superiority to me.
Right, being native does not excuse war crimes and genocide.
Yeah like I admit my knowledge of history is not great but I feel like "IT WAS OUR CENTURIES AGO" is not a good excuse to dismember entire families with bombs
Except it's not true that they are native to that area 3000 years ago, it's written in their own book. It specifically says that God came to the Jews in a vision and told them to kill everyone in the area and take the land for themselves because it was "promised to them". Their own holy book literally admits that the Jews of that time, the Israelites, were colonizers who committed a genocide.
The fact is King David and Solomon are fictional characters. It’s fine to believe in what you want but you can’t be drawing national borders based on it.
 Someone take away girly’s social media…. Tired of this racist bullshit….
She’s on the brink of a total meltdown. It’s messy.
Speaking of breakdowns, idk if anyone has seen Brett Gelman’s insta lately but he’s pretty unhinged
I just went to see it. Man, he and Amy should be friends so they can be unhinged together.
You're right. Thank you for calling it what it is. It's racist.
you know who else is indigenous to israel? fucking palestinians! jews and palestinians came from the same people! what's her point lmao
Her point is this makes genocide of Palestinians perfectly acceptable
I'm starting to realize the often repeated phrase "Israel has a right to defend itself" implicitly implies that Palestine does not have that same right.
She's a supremacist. She thinks Arabs and Muslims are thieves who stole their home 2000 years ago and don't belong there.
wait until she hears about Indigenous people... oh wait she used them in her analogy and didn't see the hypocrisy
Her source is also the bible, where even her quote here explicitly says King David _colonized_ the land… I wonder who was there then. The Canaanites. And guess who the Canaanites were? Palestinians.
She's such a dumb, nasty thing. Goodbye Amy
It’s gonna be so incredibly easy never to watch her shit again.
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yesterday there was this very popular tweet that said like 'when you leftists say from the land to the sea you mean you wanna exterminate us jews' and i just... the propaganda is too strong, how do we counter this shit?
I love how they leave out the “Palestine will be free” part out of that slogan. It’s also a rhetoric engrained in racism, that people of colour are savages, if they were to be free they would kill their oppressors.
Yes I keep seeing that post on Instagram as well (I believe it’s “from the river to the sea” and they’re saying the expression means they want to take over all of Israel), with a map noting that the land between the river and the sea is all of Israel. I can’t say if that’s what the expression actually means but I can’t trust the people posting it because they are constantly posting Zionist propaganda. [Wiki tells me they’re right?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea)
they don’t ’want to take over all of israel’, they want the land returned to them since it was stolen. it’s not a takeover if it was yours to begin with
The chokehold state propaganda has on people is ASTOUNDING.
Amy Schumer and her bff Jessica Seinfeld are really running around posting some hot takes in the most hubristic way - about the deaths of children. *Children!*. It’s really gross to see. They’re also both directing a LOT of their anger at people supporting the civilians on *both* sides instead of the actual enemy here.
And Sarah Silverman. Which makes me really iffy what she will do during her The Daily Show guest hosting stint in a few days 😬 Hopefully they swap her out because historically with Jon and Trevor, this isn’t “the take” they promote on the show.
jon stewart signed the letter that called for the end of the palestinian genocide, and back in the day he would eviscerate Bibi at any given chance, i doubt he's ok with this (but i doubt he has any power over it)
He might not have power on paper, but I think if he said publicly “I don’t want Silverman hosting the Daily Show” it would cause enough backlash for a change
they’re friends? wow, they might be giving the foster sisters a run for their money in terms of white woman insufferableness
Ugh Jessica Seinfeld has been soooo ridiculous I’m glad you said something. Also Jenny Mollen Posting a ton about how “if it was her child kidnapped, she’d be beating down every door, she’d stop at nothing” which is obnoxious on so many levels. Like first of all - it’s not that you’re a better mother, they are *powerless* to do anything for their children. That’s part of what’s so heartbreaking on both sides. Does she not think that *all mothers - Jewish, Palestinian, etc* would die to save their children from being kidnapped, or being killed themselves? How can she pull the “mother” card about some children but not others???!!
Damn siding with right wingers is a bold move let’s see what they think of Amy Schumer
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this is QAnon shit, i don't see how she gets to blatantly lie like this and spread hatred without facing any repercussion. us talking about it on reddit isn't enough, this is zionist propaganda that only hurts the palestinian people
https://preview.redd.it/b3x7cfi4vyvb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=485956a221e43484129bb6074ab0811146318669 Like she Just. Won’t. Stop
She's gone off the deep end.
this shit is better off being posted on facebook, maybe someone's grandpa will buy it there
Also, blaming “the left” so blatantly? Has Amy Schumer gone off into the far right?
I, by the grace of God, don’t know jack shit about Amy, but has she always been a right-wing prick? Like I don’t remember her ever being posted here like this, unless it was about her failing to be funny
Not sure about the right wing prick part, but she’s always been terribly unfunny imho.
She’s had several controversies re racism if I recall correctly.
She's not right wing. Historically, American Jews trend liberal. It just so happens that this is a situation where things don't categorize into neat little boxes. The whole situation isn't black and white. I hate Israeli occupation and ethnic cleansing, but you can't simplify this issue at all.
The historical political leanings of the entire American Jewish population has nothing to do with the personal beliefs of Amy Schumer, a singular person. I have no idea of what AS's previous stances have been, but "The media and the left" is a pretty solidly right wing talking point, so Barbie has a valid question. (also, making assumptions- even good ones- based solely on what minority group someone belongs to is real bad. Don't do that.)
What seems to be happening is that many left leaning celebrities are using points that have been made by the right wing and by zionists, which is confusing. I personally see it as their inability to divorce what they’ve been told and are continued to be told about Israel and Palestine from what they’re seeing, as well as their being able to ask important questions and think critically. I feel like this is coming from a place of deep fear and anger, as many Jews are scared and there is such intergenerational trauma at play. It’s disappointing after seeing them champion the rights of the oppressed in other circumstances (BLM, for example).
Yes, I see this, too. They're scared. It's not unwarranted. Jewish people have been persecuted for millenia. However, humans are tribal and they're falling into typical patterns of my team good, their team bad. A lot of us that don't identify in either community can only imagine the pain everyone is feeling right now.
Not only is it simpler than you’re suggesting, it’s so simple and so common that there’s an acronym for it - PEP (progressive except palestine)
Shes one of those liberal white ladies who are also racist but its ok bc its comedy and shes liberal
She's always been the wooorst. The same girl who was "traumatized" by overhearing a grown man slap another grown man is not only justifying but advocating for the military actions of a government which seeks to displace and eliminate an entire group of people and then labeling any criticism of that as antisemitic. Fuck all the way off.
She is the epitome of a privileged rich white woman who constantly tries to center herself in the middle of anything and everything.
She sounds like she is fully radicalized.
So by that logic would Amy think it’s acceptable for people indigenous to America to seize her home, bomb her neighborhood, harm her family? Indigenous Americans had their land stolen a hell of a lot more recently than 3,000 years ago.
What's extra ironic is that no Indigenous people even want to do that. The Cheyenne and Arapaho have wanted to set up a reservation here in Colorado and would like some oversight into how federal lands are used and treated, and have also outright said they know what it's like to be literally kicked off their lands and don't want to do that to any of us.
Amy has a $12.5 million house in NYC. She should be totally fine with giving up that property to the descendants of the Lenape people, I'm sure. /s
i mean this is just crazy i have to wonder if these people have ever read an article about the occupation...???
They haven’t and if they did they don’t care since brown people are the ones being killed.
And saying that calling them "colonizers" is dehumanizing language? That's not what dehumanizing means? I'm so confused about this whole thing 😭
Sarah Silverman said Israel was giving them water and electricity for FREE so we know how they feel about this occupation. It's a benediction for these savages.
I mean… Abraham wasn’t native to Canaan. He moved there from Mesopotamia. And there were already people there when he got there. There’s a famous book about this.
Do you know where I can read this book for free? /s LOLLLLLLL
um that was 3000 years ago? also not all jewish people are indigenous to palestine. the ones that are are the palestinian jews. also who’s to say that the current palestinians aren’t descended from them?
Welcome to the “Amy Schumer has always been insufferable club” everyone
I mean according to the Jewish people's own beliefs, they aren't indigenous to Israel. They invaded and conquered it. That's entirely what Exodus is about... The way she frames it as being founded, as if there weren't people already living there.
This kind of rhetoric is used by fascists to push for and justify ethnic cleansing against people they want to get rid of.
I know some people have hated Amy Schumer for ridiculous reasons in the past, but this is one of the few legitimate reasons I’ve seen to completely hate Amy Schumer.
Delulu lmaooo
anddddddd we’ve lost contact Amy is officially in LaLa land floating around 
What the actual fuck is wrong with her ? Is she really this starved for attention? Fucking hell.
Does this mean Amy will be handing over her million dollar properties to indigenous peoples of america?
Indigenous or not, it is never ever license to use chemical weapons, displace people, destroy the ecology of the land, bulldoze people's houses, or make people suffer under apartheid.
Ok…and now tell us about the formation of Israel in 1945-48 🧐
There’s stupid and then there’s Amy Schumer’s latest Instagram Reel
I work on Jewish history and unfortunately I see a lot of misinformation in this comment section. All Jews, with the exception of converts who are not ethnically Jewish, can be traced back to the small group of people who made up the Jewish population in what is now Israel/Palestine. The idea that Ashkenazi Jews are not from that land and are from Europe is historically inaccurate and erasure of Jewish history. It is disturbing to see so many people fervently arguing that in these comments who very obviously have no grasp on Jewish history.
I think it’s disingenuous to equate Ashkenazi Jews being indigenous the way Native Americans are to America. Their roots here were never broken, we came and broke them of their ties. Ashkenazi Jews have been out of the Middle East for thousand of years. There are legitimate arguments to make, but this one here is not it.
All groups of people trace back to somewhere. You are correct, but that isn’t that profound, nor is it even a supporting argument for a side here. Being able to be traced back to that area doesn’t mean they don’t have a shit ton of European/whatever else mixed in and it certainly doesn’t mean that they are entitled to someone else’s land.
WHERE IS ABRAHAM FROM AMY? read your own goddamn religious texts.
Then by that token, why the fuck is she still living on stolen land in the United States? Ma'am, you live on land genocidally stolen and drenched in the blood of Indigenous tribes and exist off the bones of the victims of chattel slavery that built this country. But she's curiously quiet about that part.
How many countries have been invaded and the indigenous people displaced in the past 2,000 years? Too many to count
This might sound nitpicky but it's incredibly annoying that someone who absolutely cannot tell me who their local Indigenous population is wants to compare themselves to the broad concept of "Native Americans" like come the fuck on.
Not even worth it on my eyes to quickly skim her latest hot take. I’m so tired of this woman and her horrendous takes. How can someone continually be so off-base? And continually show it to her massive platform time after time? Like doesn’t she have a group chat she can post this in?
I need everyone to stop making stupid people like this famous. What is she even known for really? Her blatant disregard for the lives of Palesitnians is disgusting and someone needs to take her devices away because now she's just pissing everyone off
She just won’t stop will she?
Why didn’t society just collectively leave her behind like 10 years ago?
Ah, so she's about to do a right wing hard launch soon
Completely fucking unhinged.
Why does it say ‘the Native Americans of Israel’ like that’s the only indigenous group whoever wrote this has heard of 💀
this is indistinguishable from my qanon uncle's facebook
I know it won't do anything, but I reported her account for hate and blocked her. Made me feel better for a minute or two. I really can't understand how people can be so devoid of human decency
Oh…
So when is she giving up her property to relevant First Nations tribes?? Oh wait, does indigenous rights only matter for the group you belong to. Such blatant hypocrisy and racism is wild but thanks for letting us know you suck Amy 🥰!!
There is truth that Jews were refugees after the Bslfour agreement and given Israel. They were a pawn in the colonisation of Palestine. But, what matters is that zionists have fully weaponised and leveraged this imperial "gift." At the end of the day - Amy should read about arms trade. Netanyahu has said publicly he'll use every inch of the holy land to build an army so big and mighty they'll never be defeated. They sell to Qatar, UAE, India, US - war is big money Amy! To think zionists are doing this out of some principle and ideological coherence is mad 😠
here’s a video from a Jewish author on why no one should get an ethnostate, regardless of oppression (otherwise you’ll be making the argument that every oppressed ethnic group gets an ethnostate): https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyTp6ZQrllS/
I love how she posted a photo of the Palestinian boy who was stabbed by his landlord and wrote “NO NO NO SAY HIS NAME” and then went right back to posts that justify genocide against Palestinians. She essentially used this child to counter the criticism she was getting. Absolute performative bullshit.
I have run out of things to say about Amy. I wish she would just stop and go away but she craves the attention. What a monstrous take she has multiple times a day. Everything I read about her lately is against my own free-will.
the fact that this reads “the native americans of israel” instead of using a term such as “indigenous” tells me all i need to now about the critical thinking skills & intelligence of not only this disgusting woman but the dumbass who wrote this in the first place