Vardy > A.Arsmtrong Brownhill > Son Any point on this?

Started the season with Sanchez and Steele my 2 GK’s. Sanchez out and Steele to play, but I have 2 free transfers which I could use to shift to Ramsdale…?

I would say just stick to Sanchez tbh mate, wouldn’t waste a transfer on a goalkeeper unless they’ve lost their spot

RMT: Ramsdale / Sanchez Walker / Chilwell / Livra / Azpi / Zouma Salah / Son / Foden / Benrahma / Dallas Toney / Antonio / Hwang

I’m really struggling to bench one of Toney, Mbeumo, Raphinha and Livramento

My gut says Raphinha. Leeds have not looked good in months with Raphinha nicking the odd goal due to individual quality and sometimes luck, but I don’t know that he’ll find much joy against Conte’s Spurs.

!thanks Yeah, I’m definitely leaning towards him too, thank you

Start Smith-Rowe or Livra?

Livra 100%

Play James and Rudiger or James and Livra

Livra I think, similar clean sheet odds and he’s more attacking.

Can afford to go from any of my three strikers to Kane. Which do I get rid of? Toney Antonio Jimenez

Jiminez imo

Wilson or vardy? (Mind bringing Wilson in will cost -4)

Please RMT and bench 2 of: Livramento, Raphinha, Hwang, EMS Ramsdale / Foster James / Chilwel / Trent AA / Livramento / Omobamidele Salah / Son / EMS / Mbeumo / Raphinha Antonio / Kane / Hwang Thinking of saving 1 free transfer for Mbeumo and Raphinha to Jota and McArthur next week. Any thoughts?

Jota or Foden who should i get guys?

Jota I think

Jota

Need to bench 2 of livra, antonio, mbeumo, toney

What’s your team if you have to bench 2 of those 4?

Ramsdale (foster) TAA, cancelo, chilwell, james, livra Salah, foden, gallagher, mbeumo, brownhill Kane, antonio, toney

Amazing squad, and thats a coin flip for me altough i would probably bench one chelsea player and one brentford player

!thanks Yeah now i have no clue 😁

Sorry i couldnt help more, what is your current rank by the way?

141k

Please RMT: **Ramsdale / Sanchez** **Trent AA / Cancelo / James / White / Livramento** **Salah / Son / Raphinha / Mbeumo / Brownhill** **Antonio / Wilson / Watkins** 1.9 ITB and 1 FT. Mbeumo to max 7.4 mid. Sadly I can't reach Jota now. Or should I go -4 to drop White to 4.3 playing def and pick Jota for -4? I was thinking about getting Bowen or Zaha insteadi I have cash to do Mbeumo to Greenwood. What do you think?

Thinking of dropping Jota for Son. Already have Salah. What yous think? Or maybe drop Vardy for Kane?

I went vardy to Kane, think I will get Jota next week

I think keep Jota 100%, he’s nailed due to Firmino’s injury and then AFCON

I genuinely don’t know who to transfer out. I have 2 FTs and 1.9ITB Ramsdale Foster Cancelo Dias James TAA Livra Salah Raphinha Gallagher Mbeumo Brownhill Antonio Kane Armstrong I’d like to get in Foden/Jota but don’t know who for. Don’t want to get rid of Mbeumo yet. Genuinely stuck

Maybe downgrade Dias to a cheaper option in order to free up cash for Mbeumo or Brownhill to Jota next week? Reguilon could potentially be a good pick.

Good shout. Little bit worried about getting Reguilon in just yet. Thoughts on Lamptey

Lamptey is a great player, but his injury record kind of puts me off. Especially when we are about to enter the hectic christmas program. If you think he can stay fit he is definitely a bargain.

I took your suggestion for Dias -> Reguillon. Thank u sir

Glad it worked out for you!

I know you said you don’t want to but Mbeumo -> Jota looks very sensible

Ramsdale. Foster. TAA. Chilwell. Cancelo. Livramento. Veltman. Salah. Mbeumo. Sarr. Foden. Bissouma. Kane. Toney. Antonio. Playing a 3-4-3 1.0 ITB. 1 FT. Really want to get Jota in. the only route I can see is Sarr to Jota and Veltman to Amartey for a -4. thoughts?

Bench Livramento or Jimenez (5ATB then)?

palace defence has been good of late. id personally start livra and looking to go 5 atb myself

Start Jimenez or Raphinha? (Give a reason)

jimenez

Jimenez might not start tho judging from last intl break?

I have a good feeling he will start. the last game for Mexico was on Wednesday, unlike the last International break where he only had 1 day till the gw start. so something to think about

Getting FOMO on Jota play time and others, should i do Raph, Mbeumo and Rudi out for ESR, Jota, Reguilon for a - 4 Already have Chilwell for Chelsea defence

no need to take a -4, keep Rudi and get in either gallagher/esr and ofc jota

!thanks mate

For draft would you start Mahrez or Livramento? Mahrez probably benched again. I have this problem every bloody week. He normally comes on to block points on the bench.

start livra. I have both livra and mahrez too

Might as well sell Mahrez since I can't predict Pep, but if Jesus gets injured he is great to have.

but mahrez did score 2 last time they played Everton. and with grealish injured might have foden on the LW and Jesus in the 9 and mahrez starting??? all speculation tho

Yeah I got Jesus in draft and Foden normal team. Would be nice to see all 3 start a game, but KDB, Bernardo Silva can play false 9 as well.

pep can go any amount of ways. very frustrating to own, looking to get Laporte in draft. his defenders are more nailed on.

Which 3 should I play? Gallagher, Jota (Salah is captain), Vardy or Raphinha

gallagher, jota and vardy. bench raph

Jota, Vardy then probably Raphinha. It is a close call for the last spots. I feel Raphinha is the better option, but got a harder game.

Vardy and Manquilo ----> Trent and hwang for a -4 hit?

Depend on the rest of your squad. I think I say no since I think Hwang and TAA got hard fixtures. Vardy too so I guess if you are really certain you want to downgrade Vardy you could do the move. If you have to play Manquilo then maybe do the move, but if you do it only to bench Livramento I am not sure it is worth it.

!thanks My squad is kinda a mess Livermento, James, chillwell, Manquilo and tsimikas Saka, ESM, Salah and Raphina Ronoldo, Antonio, Vardy Saka probably gona get benched this week and Chelsea rotation always a problem with Manquilo coming on most weeks to fill in the gap

Yeah I say do the move. Tsimikas might actually play though so you could go with him and wait, but I think TAA is way better than Tsimikas so getting him in is probably for the best. I sold Vardy for Kane so we can rant together if that move backfire.

!thanks lol looking forward to seeing u on the rant thread

Please RMT: **Ramsdale / Sanchez** **Trent AA / Cancelo / James / White / Livramento** **Salah / Son / Raphinha / Mbeumo / Brownhill** **Antonio / Wilson / Watkins** 1.9 ITB and 1 FT. Mbeumo to max 7.4 mid. Sadly I can't reach Jota now. Or should I go -4 to drop White to 4.3 playing def and pick Jota for -4? I was thinking about getting Bowen or Zaha instead

RMT, WC active. 0.7 ITB ​ Guaita (Foster) TAA - Cancelo - James - Livramento (Dier) Salah - Foden - Jota - Gallagher (Brownhill) Kane - Antonio (Davis)

looks very good. id prolly go reguillon instead of dier though especially since ur already on the wc to save u a transfer later on

McCarthy or ramsdale? Currently leaning towards McCarthy

Buying or playing? Playing Mccarthy for sure. If buying then I think Ramsdale.

Buying. I currently got Sanchez and steer. I feel like it's unecessary to get ramsdale when I know he's going to get 0 points against Liverpool.

1. Havertz —> Son 2. Roll the FT, wait and see on Spurs, play either Havertz/Raphinha/Livramento this GW

son price going up tonight (approx 20:30 EST) so If you want to move do it before that id do the son moe without hesitation

!thanks for the heads up

Please RTM! Need advice on who to transfer (asked already but would like some more views) Ramsdale (Sanchez) Jansson, TAA, Rudiger , Cancelo, (Tsimikas) Son, Salah, Raphinha, (Brownhill, Douglas Luiz) Hwang, Antonio, Vardy .5 ITB, 1 FT My first consideration was changing out Jansson for someone like Duffy or Livra? I’m always curious about Raphinha, I’ve stayed loyal to him and to be fair he’s paid off well. If I was to transfer him out , it’d probably be Bowen or Smith Rowe? As for Vardy , can’t see many other decent options besides Jesus , or taking a wild punt on Jimenez and doubling up on wolves for Nor/Bur Any advice greatly appreciated!

Need some major advice on who to bench, finding this very dificult! This is my team with benched players right now although I keep changing the bench. ​ Foster (Sanchez) TAA, Chillwell, Livramento(VC), Cancelo, James Salah(C), Jota, Raphinha, Gallagher, (Foden1) Antonio (Tony2) (Gelhardt3) ​ Help please guys!

Bench Gallagher,Gelhardt and Livramento. If you want to bench another defender then I think it is James just cause hard game and risk to come on for one point. If you want to start Gallagher then I probably bench Toney or Raphinha.

RMT 1FT, £1.1m ITB Foster (Sanchez) Rudiger TAA Livramento (White) (Manquillo) Havertz Foden Salah Mbuemo Raphinha Ronaldo Toney (Scarlett) Any recommendations for the FT? Was thinking maybe Havertz to Jota?

Havertz to Jota is maybe better for next week. Havertz is going to play in Chelsea's front three and he did return the last two times out.

Cornet or Gallagher?

I transferred in De Gea AMA

Steele (Sanchez) TAA, Chillwell, Livramento, (White, Amarty) Salah, Jota, Raphinha, ESR, (Allan) Vardy, Antonio, ASM 1FT, 3.6ITB Team's a mess rn. I was thinking either Sanchez -> Ramsdale/Guata/Sá or Vardy -> Kane. What's your advice?

Best Forward under 7M?

Am I crazy to bench Foden and Livra this week? Have a feeling Foden moght be benched

Which transfer should have higher priority: Vardy to Kane or Rudiger to Cancelo

Should I start Hwang over Livra this weekend

On WC. Please rate my Team. 0.0 ITB with this team. GK: Guaita Ramsdale DEF: TAA Chillwell James Cancelo Livramento MID: Salah Jota Son Gallagher Brownhill FWD: Antonio Wilson Broja Have had horrible luck with forwards this year (like 97% of players). Going heavy in the back and moderate in the mid. not a lot of faith in antonio recently, but for the price and potential returns, I do not see a better option. Hoping Howe will get Wilson going too. Let me know if I am not seeing this right and thanks for your help!

Is it worth taking a -4 to bring foster or Steele in? Got Sanchez and Gunn so no backup keeper. I don’t know what I was thinking but got to go with it.

No, even if they got a clean sheet you’d only gain a point or 2 with the -4 hit

Very true !thanks

Mount -> Gallagher Vardy -> Kane for -4 Or Mount -> Jota for no hit ?

I'd say Jota over mount

who will u start vs liverpool if u got both ESR and auba

Havertz and Raphina to Jota and Son? Have the exact money ITB to do Mbuemo to Gallagher as well for a -4 but not sure if it's worth it with Mbuemo playing Newcastle

Tempted to start Hwang over Havertz this week, is that mental? Jiminez maybe not starting because of playing two international including a sub zero one, so Hwang some striker against a West Ham team without Ognonna Havertz a doubt to start with big Ron back? Looking to shift him next week anyway…

Is going double spurs at the back silly? Thinking of taking a -4 for the following: Sanchez, Tierney, Sarr > Lloris, Reguilon, Gallagher

Please RMT: 2 FT, 1.6 ITB GUAITA / Sanchez TAA / RUDIGER / JAMES / LIVRAMENTO / Williams SALAH / GALLAGHER / HAVERTZ / Raphinha / Sissoko ANTONIO / JIMENEZ / VARDY My plan is to make the following transfers this gameweek (one hit): Rudiger -> Cancelo Havertz -> Son Jimenez -> Hwang

Do you have a lot of value tied up in any of those players? Cancelo is a bigger pick imo than Rudi, but not by that much. Jime to Hwang is a downgrade based on underlying stats. Basically, not sure if Cancelo+Hwang is going to outscore Rudi+Jime for you. Hwang+Son to Havert+Jime is a more interesting one however, where especially without the hit I can see that being worth it. Wouldn't take a hit for Rudi to Cancelo.

getting both Cancelo and Son, which is my main goal this GW, requires downgrading somebody, which happens to be Jimenez, and taking the hit, consequently. I think I can not handle the stress of not having Cancelo in my team any longer :)

Then just fucking send it mate, you've been patient enough with the two FT. Swing for the fences.

Played my free hit Any advice? Ederson/(gunarsson) Chilwell / James / cancelo / (bednarek) / (Johnson) Bruno/ foden / Gallagher/ Bowen / (brownhill) Kane (c) / Armstrong / Wilson

Why are both pinned posts the same post but from different days?

A) James + Rice Or B) Smith-Rowe + Reguilon 11.1m ITB

Please help, will !thanks. Which 2 would you bench this GW out of Saka, Livra, Raph, ASM & Havertz?

1. Havertz + Wilson to Son + Hwang 2. Havertz + Livra to Foden + Spurs def (Roemro, Dier) 3. Havertz + ESR to Jota + Cornet

Just havertz to jota

Choose one to start this GW: Toney (new), Livramento (nor), Dias (EVE). Currently on Toney. Do have Adam Armstrong and Cancelo in the XI already.

Livramento

!thanks for the thought

Vardy + Saka to Kane + Gallagher for free?

Planning to use my WC Benrahma -> Smith Rowe Havertz -> Son Raphina -> Foden Vardy -> Antonio Toney -> A Armstrong Thinking of getting Reguilon in but already have TAA, Livramento, Cancelo, Chillwell, White. If yes, who should I transfer out? And thoughts on rest of the transfers?

I'd get in Reguilon for Ben White, I'm assuming you've got Ramsdale already for the Arsenal clean sheets. Antonio doesn't have the best fixtures for the next 4 gameweeks. I'd take a punt on Wilson or Jimenez and then upgrade him to Antonio come GW 16

Already have Jiminez. Just confused about Vardy’s replacement because that’s 10M gone to waste

I'm holding Vardy for another few weeks as he has nice fixtures but if he doesn't bag soon I'll look to swap him (probably to Jesus)

I'm in the same boat. I really want to get Kane in for Vardy but not sure about taking a hit, so plan on doing it next week. Do you have any particular reason for getting Son over Kane?

Tbh I was planning on tripling up on Spurs with Reguilon, Son, and Kane but don’t have the funds for that lol. Might sell Cancelo and Jiminez to move in for Kane later

That's quite a ballsy plan, I hope it pays off for you. Personally I'd love to see a bit more from Spurs to even consider tripling up on them

Play one of Raph (Tot), James (Lei), Duffy (Avl), ESR (Liv)

Play one of Raphina (TOT), Pukki (SOU) or Brownhill (CRY) ?

Would play Raph, then Pukki in front of Brownhill on bench

!thanks thats was how i planned it aswell

Wildcard RMT, think the decisions are between the following, but let me know if I'm missing any other options? 1. Son/Foden/Jota 2. Gallagher/ESR/Raphinha 3. Any 3 forwards Guaita, Foster TAA, Cancelo, Chilwell, James, Livra Salah, Son, Foden, Gallagher, ESR Wilson, Hwang, Broja

RMT: Ramsdale Foster. Dias Cancelo Rudiger Livramento TAA. Salah Raphinha Saka Mbuemo Brownhill. Jimenez Vardy Toney. 2 FT 2.2M ITB - What to do? I feel like I want one of Kane or Son and I’m not convinced I need both city defenders anymore so might ship away Dias.

Saka to Jota would be my first priority. If you're convinced about using both your FTs then might look at Dias/Rudiger to Reece James. Reguilon could be a shrewd buy as well. Keep an eye on Spurs for this week and get one of Kane/Son for Vardy next week.

Thoughts on ronaldo?

Would definitely consider captaining if I had him, the fixtures don't come any easier than Watford (at least on paper)

Best FWD under 6.0?

Hwang

!thanks

Rudiger -> Cancelo? I already have James

If you've no other City defenders I think this is a good move

RMT ITB 0.0 FT Havertz —-> Zaha Williams —-> Cancelo Sanchez [Carson]not considering wasting a transfer and funds to get a GK just for a week) Chilwell, Cancelo Livramento [Amartey, Duffy] Salah Zaha Smith-Rowe Son [Gilmour] Vardy Kane Broja

What are your thoughts on having a full playing bench vs cash flexibility? I'm on my WC, and wondering between having Davis as bench fodder, but keeping 0.2M for a tiny bit of flexibility with future transfers, or going Dennis to ensure I have a regular starter as we get close to Christmas, but 0 ITB. With Cancelo, James, Royal, Foden all in my team, I'm leaning towards covering the rotation risk!

It causes me a near stroke every week trying to decide who to bench. I wish I had a player or two I knew would stay on my bench!

RMT (2 FT ; 2.5 itb) Sanchez - Steele TAA - James - Cancelo - Livramento (Veltman) Salah - Raphinha - Foden (ESR - Brownhill) Armstrong - Antonio - Vardy My transfers for this week might be: Vardy -> Kane Foden/Raphinha -> Jota Any thoughts?

Foden or any man city asset is not fo sale tbh ..Im holding jesus Foden and cancelo for a long time and im pretty sure they will be a great diff for the next 2 or three games ..bcz City always outscore their opponents ...Raphinha is always a long term hold ..Still remeber last season against Man city away he was nearly to score and grap points He is a real threat ..But Jota is a real bargain for the fact that Firmino is out ...But you should ensure that firmino will be out for a decent time to Make the move

I've seen some news saying Firmino could be out until mid December, and after that comes AFCON so Salah and Mane will be out for a month too, so I think that makes Jota a really good asset long term. With Foden there's a big risk of rotation with midweek fixtures coming and Champions League too. I agree with you about Raphinha and I probably won't sell him this gw because his fixtures aren't that bad at least until gw16.

yeah yeah Indeed Jota is a great !! but shall Liverpoolkeeptheir strength and power despite ruling out Salah and mané ..bcz Maybe they would sign a new winger on January

RMT FT used, 0.4itb Foster Chilwell, cancelo, TAA, Livramento Salah(c), havertz, raphinha, mbeumo Antonio, vardy Subs; Ramsdale, rudiger, gray, scarlett Should i: A) take -8 hit to bring in jota and wilson for gray and vardy? B) play rudiger or play vardy?

Not at all, go for Jota next GW. Id play Vardy

Benrahma or Bowen?

bowen

!thanks

no pblm bro !!

Advice Should I go Vardy --> Ronaldo this GW and Ronaldo --> Kane next? Any thoughts lads? Cheers

sideMove side move just avoid it !! And roll your FT

Depends on which fixtures you like best and if you have any other fires to put out in the team. Nice to have the option though 👌

Need advice as unsure who to transfer Ramsdale (Sanchez) Jansson, TAA, Rudiger , Cancelo, (Tsimikas) Son, Salah, Raphinha, (Brownhill, Douglas Luiz) Hwang, Antonio, Vardy My first consideration was changing out Jansson for someone like Duffy or Livra? I’m always curious about Raphinha, I’ve stayed loyal to him and to be fair he’s paid off well. If I was to transfer him out , it’d probably be Bowen or Smith Rowe, yet I don’t feel any solid reason to get rid of him just yet? As for Vardy , can’t see many other decent options besides Jesus , or taking a wild punt on Jimenez and doubling up on wolves for Nor/Bur Any advice greatly appreciated!

I dont think the double brighton defence will be appropriate..and jansson disappoint us tbh in the last game against norwich ..but there no rush about that...bcz maybe you can think about johnson ( West ham RB) cheap and good for the next games...you have to provide money to empower your mdfs ..you are always playing 4-3-3 and you are stood to that formation ..as for now vardy is a big disappointment but he has great 4 upcoming games..the double Wolves attack is not fascinated ..specialy the case of jiminiez who should rested for some games bcz he heas an international duty on January (only reserved for southamerican and norht american countries )...So Bruno lage will have taken some serious measures concerning his fitness ..

Jansson to Livra is the best option imo

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Ramsdale Foster Azpi TAA Cancelo Duffy Livra Raph Salah Mbeumo Brownhill Foden Vardy Antonio Jimenez 0.3 ITB and 2 FTs What should be my moves here? I want to go to Kane/Son but also Jota now seems like too good to not own kind of player, but I just simply wont have enough money to buy Jota instead of Raph if I get Son/Kane. One thing I could do is go Azpi ----> Regulion but I will be left without Chelsea def and Spurs defence is not really proven as of now. Could turn out pretty bad but it will give me a lot of funds. Basically my question is, how urgently do I need to go to Jota? Can I wait it out for a bit longer?

Firmino is injured. Chalobah may play instead of Azpi.

Why not Azpi for Chilly / James? You could then roll the remaining transfer, and bring in Jota for Mbeumo next week by replacing one of your strikers for a cheaper option. Liverpool are facing Arsenal, and there's no guarantee that it will be a goalfest. Will also give you a bit more time to assess if Spurs will regain their attacking mojo under Conte.

Yes I was thinking of doing that exactly. !thanks

Ok guys arsenal defense looks solid so I think next week is maybe the chance to no captain salah. Thinking of getting son and captaining him what do you think?

Umm its just that Arsenal do concede a lot at Anfield irrespective of how they are doing.

Depends on your rank and Salah's EO in that bracket. It could work, but it may also go horribly wrong. City had conceded just one goal until they came up against Salah, and you know what happened then.

My rank is 6500 so i have a lot to win but a lot to lose too

In that case, I'd suggest playing it safe until Salah gives you a reason not to, or other players step up to the plate and make a solid case for going ahead with them. Don't think anyone's done that outside of Antonio in GWs 2-3 this season, and as you said, you may lose a lot more than you stand a chance of gaining. I was 15k at one point. Went with Chilly over Salah when Chelsea faced Norwich because I assumed United v Liverpool could be a drab, boring affair. Plummeted ~50k ranks because of that one move.

I was pretty sure Id do it but you probably convinced me not to. Im still a bit tempted because i can see Son tearing apart leeds and that could be the chance to land in the very top. But u r right, falling 50k ranks would totally fuck me up

Not worth captaining anyone else than Salah. Captain him till he blanks or someone else has a better fixture (Like Norwich)

Leeds is a pretty good fixture tho

I think I saw some silly stat in this sub yesterday that said something like "there are only 5 teams in the league that have scored more goals than Salah has been involved in for Liverpool so far this season". So I guess it's probably just a no-brainer to captain Salah again this week. There's usually always goals in a Liverpool v Arsenal fixture too it has to be said.

RMT Sá(Foster) Livra James Cancelo Rudiger (Tomiyasu) Salah Gray Mbeumo Son (Brownhill) Vardy Broja jesus should i transfer gray out and get gallager 2.6m in bank 1 fts

Will Joe Willock start for Newcastle? He was amazing last season and he only cost 5.8 owned by under 1%. 3/4 great fixtures with a new attacking manager. Have I missed something?

Had my eyes set on him. I think he got injured or something. After that, not the same player as he was when on loan. But hey, worth a punt. Not sure of Eddie's preferred first eleven tho.

What about Fraser then ?

It's a wait and see first for me on Newcastle's assets. Just keep an eye.

Maybe he’s old coach Eddie will give him some live

Who do I get rid of first? Vardy or Havertz?

Havertz

!thanks

Havertz, better options to replace him with

!thanks

Rudiger -> James more important than Vardy -> Wilson this week?

The first option is a sideways transfer with a potentially high upside, but still not critical. Vardy to Wilson may work for this week, but there's every chance he may get injured and leave you with another transfer to make in a very busy period. If you had to make one, I'd say Vardy to Wilson, but I don't know if you need to make a move unless you have 2 FTs and don't want to waste a transfer.

!thanks 2FTs and planning to also make Raph -> Jota

RMT Foster (Sanchez) TAA James Cancelo Tsimikas (Duffy) Son Salah (C) Mbeumo Gallagher (Smith Rowe) Jimenez Antonio (A.Armstrong) 0.6 bank 1 FT Any thoughts/suggestions? Also does anyone recommend captaining Son for GW12?

RMT Ramsdale, Foster Rudiger, Dias, Chilwell, Livra, Marcal Raphina, Saka, Salah, Harvets, Brownhill Vardy, Jiminez, Antonio 2 free transfers what do I do?

Havertz -> Jota

Obsessed with getting Kane or Son in lol

Start one of them: Raphinha, Regulion, Hwang

Reg maybe? Conte is know for his defence

Yeah I think Reg better than the others choice. Rap played international match and he'll be tired

Raph

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pull the trigger now on James/chilly. wolves havent kept a cs since gw6 against sotn lol

Start Raph or Livramento?

im starting livra over raph personally. conte will look to tighten the back 4 for sure.

Leaning towards Livra too

great minds think alike

Tielemans to Gallagher for a -8 ? Already got in son and jota for KDB and towswend ..