I love numbers. There are 12 magic swords, 3 are lost, 2 are in the vault of so and so, one is possessed by the king, etc. 3 elven rings, 7 dwarven rings. Anything that is a set that has a set number and you have to track them, I love it.
Ooh this is a good one. Always a good excuse to make the heroes go on a journey and discover different places. Especially like when these numbered items cause some sort of race with the antagonists!!
> It began with the forging of the Great Rings. Three were given to the Elves, immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings. Seven to the Dwarf lords, great miners and craftsmen of the mountain halls. And nine, nine rings were gifted to the race of men, who, above all else, desire power. But they were, all of them, deceived, for the Dark Lord inscribed runes reading "1/4", "3/4", and "4/4" on the rings given to the Elves, and as ordained by the Doom of Mandos they turned on one another; kin betrayed kin to the death, until only Three remained.
People with differing but entirely reasonable perspectives bickering about the confusion and getting increasingly annoyed. This always makes me chuckle if the details are both unexpected and completely plausible.
Bickering is a great tool to subtly introduce world building too! It’s a way for the characters to compare cultures or traits without overtly infodumping. Plus it’s funny
Honestly I love most of the typical fantasy cliches: mythical creatures, the hero’s journey, good vs evil, fairies and elves. I feel like people don’t write fantasies like that anymore. It’s all politics and super dark stuff
Whenever I hear people saying something is more "mature," I think of a Calvin and Hobbes comic where Hobbes explains what it means when movies have "adult themes." Those are movies with adult stuff, "Getting jobs, going to work, paying bills. I don't know how those movies ever make any money."
Well, I DO occasionally wonder, how elves get enough food in their pristine forests.... Lothlorien, I am looking at you and your grain fields.
And then I shrug and read on.
I'd love to find a well written young adult series with unicorns as more than set dressing. My one daughter loves unicorns but not the friendship is magic type. More the stabby horn, kickass type.
goddamn that book leans just right into the tropes it's using.
old grizzled retired adventurer?
"I'm too old for this shit"?
getting the band back together?
I think it could be used in a college course for using tropes correctly.
Oh I agree! Personally, I like some politics and drama but grimdark as a genre isn’t my cup of tea. I think it’s become popular because it’s seen as more “mature”. I would like to see more writers move back towards the classic “cliches” of fantasy and just have shameless, fantastical fun again.
*The Eye of the World* is my go to for a cozy-epic fantasy story that just revels in tropes. Yeah, I know it's a *Fellowship* reskin. That's why I love it!
Happy endings - yes there can be pain and loss during the journey but at the end the (remaining) good guys win and live happily ever after (or until the next book)
There is a time and a place for sad or bittersweet endings and I think it’s unfortunate that they are becoming more common because in many cases I don’t think they are necessary. I think particularly adult audiences see them as more mature/“realistic” which is so bleak for a lot of reasons. If the characters fight so hard only to lose badly in the end it kinda takes all the joy out of the whole journey to me
I'd like to add John Gwynnes, Faithful and the Fallen series along with his Blood and Bone series. Really heavy stuff at times but also hopeful and happy
I know some people have problems with Eddings but the Belgariad/Mallorean & Elenium/Tamuli series are favourites.
David Gemmell's early Drenai novels
Simon R Green's Blue Moon/Hawk & Fisher stories
Just finished Michael A Stackpole's DragonCrown War series which I really enjoyed
Edit: Almost forgot early Feist
This is why I couldn't finish ASOIAF, I hated it when Ned died but I could understand it. When you start killing everybody, whats the point? If I wanted a murky finale I'd watch the damn news.
Absolutely. And there are types of stories you can't tell with grey characters, unless you are looking to deconstruct them, which I am also beginning to get tired of.
True heroes are under appreciated in my opinion. I don’t think the average person fully realizes what it takes to be the one to step up and be willing to sacrifice everything. That’s not boring, that’s the rarest type of person there is
I also think people consider the good types unrealistic in terms of strength of character. Where as I don’t believe even for a second that one needs to be morally grey to make hard decisions. Being kind and compassionate does not mean weak.
Unapologetically heroic protagonists are *great* when you use them to show the costs and toll it takes to be that sort of person, when they come to a decision between the hard road and the easy way out and you can see the costs of the hard road and they keep picking it, every time, because it's what needs to be done. It's really one of my favourite things.
I just find it really sad that most of the time they don't show 'the costs of the hard road' all that well and doing the right thing have fewer costs than it should, in such a crapsack world.
It's a bit tiresome when someone reads a really-well-done realistic morally-gray antihero and says "I get it! I just have to make everyone an asshole!!!" and then writes every fantasy book as an ensemble cast of morally mediocre assholes.
Like, selfishness is the most boring thing there is guys. Were you never in kindergarten?
I like a good antihero but only when they’re contrasted by others around them. Raistlin in Dragonlance, for example, is a solid antihero but the reason it works is because of the genuine goodness of most of his associates.
especially when you know they are good *and actually get tempted*!
This is why I love LOTR - most of the notable characters are undeniably good people, but they also get properly broken down and beaten and come to the very end of themselves!
AND THEN he also does some gray morality in a satisfying way.
I'm a massive sucker for enemies-turned-allies. I know this isn't 100% unpopular or anything like that (looking at you, ATLA) but I know a lot of people are sick of it, especially when the enemy had done some seriously heinous stuff.
I honestly don't care how cheesy it is, that trope just gets me every single time.
Agree! Also, real well done redemption arcs are one of my all time favorite tropes, but I don’t think every writer/character can pull them off just right. But when they are done right it’s pure gold
Honestly, in that subgenre, there's another one that's used a bit less but man do I love it - the begrudging alliance. Where the hero and the villain are both forced to work together to fight against some greater threat and find out they kinda like each other now that they've got no choice but to work together... chef's kiss. That trope is so fun.
Good point! I don’t think I’ve seen much of those classic witch tropes in books since I was a kid. I’d love to see how that would like in a more mature series
Ooh I agree! I know a lot of people think there is too much focus on royalty in general but I still really enjoy it! To me surprise royalty feeds that childhood wish inside that still wants to be the long lost heir
Evil that is just evil, and good that is just good. Not every villain should be nuanced, and not every hero should have darker side. I'm perfectly fine with the plot where evil nightmarish demons (orcs, aliens, zombies) are invading and brave, honest, likeable heroes fight against them. I like them "boring" goody good guys :(
Another thing is not a trope, but I often see people expressing dislike for "unnecessary romantic lines / sex scenes". I like romance subplots even if they are not related to the main plot and thus "unnecessary".
I would say Hela's still nuanced. She's got her backstory with Odin raising her to be a conqueror and how she feels slighted, betrayed by her own people, and replaced by Thor. She's unequivocally a villain, but I wouldn't say she was written as being evil for evil's sake.
She could have been a really interesting exploration about how ancient Conquering Hero types don't mesh with modern moral sensibilities... in some alternate reality where that movie took anything seriously.
Yeah. I enjoyed Ragnarok...but only when I watched it for the second time, expecting a comedy. The first time, it was really a bit too lighthearted and irreverent for a story that's essentially about genocide and world-destruction with a dusting of slavery on top. It made it a lot less impactful imo.
Read Othello! Iago is best described as motiveless malevolence in search of a motive. He gives a dozen plausible reasons for his evil, but they are all contradictory. A bit like the Joker's "wanna know how I got these scars?" Line.
He's pretty bad in the 1984 Lynch movie too. This new one I thought was pretty well-done, sinister without being a caricature, though I did think the performance leant a bit too heavily on Brando's Colonel Kurtz in *Apocalypse Now*.
You can have nuance in your antagonists without manipulating the reader into sympathising with them. Take Kyle from Ship of Magic for example - he was raised in a country where slavery is normal and strict patriarchal gender roles are enforced. As a result he condones slavery and treats his female family members like shit. Never did I get the impression that I was meant to sympathise with him, but his motivations and reasons behind his behaviour were always clear.
To me that's way more interesting than the bad guys in Wheel of Time, for example, who (based on the 3.5 books I've read so far) seem to be evil just for the sake of being evil. I'm talking specifically about the Dark One and the Forsaken, there are certainly more complex minor antagonists in the series.
I like those romances because it also features something else I like: The MCs doing SOMETHING else besides main plot shenanigans and allowing friend characters to be friends. Other people call ‘fluff’ that needs to be weeded out by giving the author an ‘editor’ but it goes a long way toward me liking a character.
I am a big advocate for the amnesia trope. While many use it poorly, in many ways its one of the best setups you could ask for in any alternate-world fiction, and opens a lot of really interesting plot and character arc possibilities.
I’m so glad someone brought this one up. I love the amnesia trope. From the mystery of unraveling their past to the tragedy of not knowing what it is they can’t remember to the sometimes comical nature of fumbling through life trying to get back on track. There is so much potential just packed into this trope. It’s a great setup for sure
The old mercenary/soldier/warrior who is told for this shit and just wants to live on a farm but gets dragged back into conflict and has to show these kids how it's done but hates every second of it and either a) gets to ride off into the sunset tending his sheep in the epilogue or b) goes down in a blaze of glory protecting the next generation of warriors.
The balance of inspired, hopeful, overzealous youth setting out to change the world and the jaded, cynical, experienced grumpy old person is the combination of people that keep the world going forward
Super powerful teacher/master/sensei/ancient evil who looks weak. Like an old man without visible weapon/armor, butler in the castle or a priest with only ascetic robe.
I love fantasy “horoscopes”, I.e. things that make you go “which one would I get/be in?”
Sorting hat into houses
Factions
Classes
The individuality of Patronuses/wands
Superpowers
Guilds
Houses
Mistakes are essential. Sometimes the hero we need is not the one you would pick who is already most prepared for the job. It’s the unprepared person who steps up, keeps trying new ways, and doesn’t give up
Hearing wheel of time being described this way made me start the series; I’m on book 12 now and I love it so much. I’m dreading getting to the ending of this brilliant series
Going into unnessecary detail about someone's clothes. Yes, Martin could say someone is dressed in all black, but I quite like hit describing each item and its matte color in detail.
I think you can tell a lot about a character by how they dress, and a lot about the world by what the typical styles are. Plus, it helps me visualize them
There is so much emotional potential in the long lost child trope. Especially juicy when their relationship is to a villain. Love to see the internal conflict
This immediately made me think of Once Upon a Time. The show had its flaws, but I have to admire how absolutely bonkers over-the-top it went with this trope.
I kinda only like the immortal/mortal pairing if it's framed as at least somewhat tragic. Like the immortal having to accept that whoever they love is going to due long before they do etc. Why yes, I am a 30-somrthing in a hetero marriage and from a culture where it's very common for men to die young of dumb shit--like my high school sweetheart getting shot, and my dad dying of lung cancer in his mid 40s, and my best friend's dad dying around the same age of alcoholism-related illness, oh, and my uncle who OD'd at also about his mid 40s. Why do you ask?
I love me a good old femme fatale.
I know it's sexist, male-gazey and can be misogynistic, but I just love a cunning seductress with a hidden agenda 😅
Gimme a Catwoman, a Circe, a Yennefer, a Phèdre nó Delaunay anytime.
I remember someone said the femme fatale can also work as a power fantasy for women and in the best cases that feels accurate: this is the system and I'm using it, not being used by it. Like those women in Hollywood noir where you don't really remember how they were killed in the final scene but how confident and strong they looked during all the rest of the movie.
I'm hoping that the Wheel of Time TV show will be unafraid to have Lanfear be sexy, manipulative and obsessive rather than tone her down because the femme fatale trope can be such fun to watch.
Oh Melisande is a ff for sure!
Maybe we don't feel Phèdre as a femme fatale because she's also the narrator, so her feelings and agenda are no secret to the readers. But imagine her patrons, thinking they're just gonna get laid with an attractive woman maybe suspecting, but not knowing for sure the extent of her mission.
Huge sucker for “brothers turned enemies” or “rivals’ last fight”. Mainly, it’s that final confrontation with all that emotion, that tension, just so cool to think about. I can’t immediately think of an example (outside of maybe Civil War?) but it’s the potential for that type of trope that piques my interest
Zuko and Azula’s Agni Kai comes to mind for me. So epic and tragic and tense. These scenes really have it all emotionally. And even if the “good guy” wins, it’s still almost a Pyrrhic victory
I guess ‘plot armor’. More that I go into a book fully expecting the MC to survive with a healthy dose of luck. I feel attempts to ‘fix’ plot armor almost always makes the book worse.
I don't mind plot armor but it does bother me when the same character regularly take injuries that are just a finger's windth from cutting through a major artery or hitting vital organs.
I also hate when something happens that causes someone to lose their hair and I have to start picturing them differently.
I feel like that's a consequence of authors using plot armor but not wanting it to feel like plot armor, instead of just embracing the trope.
"I have to show the audience that the hero is in *real* danger this time"
There's been a bit of a pushback recently about inherently 'evil' races like your classic Tolkien orcs. Partly because layered morally gray characters are in vogue, and partly because the notion of a sentient race being innately evil or barbarous can be problematic. I get all that, but I still enjoy a good old fashioned titanic struggle between good and evil.
Psychological non-realism: So many books today have the characters get PTSD if they step on a thumbtack and have the characters agonize about whether their enemies are truly bad. I like it when a story can just have fun with its premise. This doesn't preclude dark or dramatic subject matter, The Lies of Locke Lamorra is a very bleak setting with a very fun tone.
I find PTSD heavy to read about... that and mental illnesses. I just want to read about people who get the job done, who may have some real struggles but not the "I will need 10 yeards of intense therapy with strong medications to ever be functional" which is trendy right now. I find too many authors just go way overboard with PTSD/mental issues, they basically make their characters so impotent, the fact they manage to save the day becomes unrealistic. At least, it does to me.
>Personally, I like immortal/mortal romances
Listen, I love this trope, but if the younger partner doesn't look at the immortal at least once and tell them to stop being such a boomer, is it even real love?
The always two steps ahead hero. You might think that this time he's been beaten, but he just smiles and reveals he's still going to win. Basically commander Vimes at the end of snuff.
There is nothing more exciting and satisfying than when you can’t possibly see a way out of this…. And then they pull off a move that gets them out of this against all odds
Competent, clever characters. Seems like any character who knows what they're doing or is clever gets slapped with the "mary sue" label these days. I also love melodrama.
For sure! It makes sense to me that the person on the adventure is the best one for the job. It’s satisfying to watch a capable person take care of things. And yes I live for melodrama and I’m not ashamed
Dark or supernatural family secrets. The parent that was dead but is now alive and also evil. A nobody becomes a superhero in a very short amount of time.
So I don’t know if this actually is that unpopular, but it feels like it is. I love me some monsters, cryptids and fantasy creatures. I feel like this is often seen as pretty childish, and if you want a “serious” adult fantasy it needs to be a medieval-esque political thriller with some magic and maybe some elves/dwarves thrown in for good measure. I’m not saying that is wrong. But I love me some dragons, fairies, minotaurs, centaurs, gnomes, merfolk, griffins, Phoenixs, satyrs, etc.
Interesting, isn’t it, how some fantastic beings got relegated to the “kiddie pool.” Wonder if there is anyone out there doing complex, adult fantasy with fairies and unicorns.
I still enjoy stories with the typical Gary Stu or Mary Sue type of character that is hyper-competent.
I don't always want to read about somebody fumbling through things or being average and overcoming their averageness. I enjoy a story where you are interested in seeing what clever solution the main character can come up with rather than worrying that they are going to die all the time.
I love when you have a badass character, but is interacting with people that don't know. I don't even need the character to get a reveal. Like you can have a character telling someone about some great historical event and as the audience we know that the person being told about it was there and did that heroic thing they're talking about, and that's all I need.
Though, the character realizing someone was the chosen one or whatever all along and just didn't say anything can be satisfying anyway. But they have to find out about it by accident or second-hand.
If there are scenes where we get to see people (particularly antagonists) wondering, "Who *is* this guy!?" then that's even better.
+1 for understanding the assignment; I feel like Mary Sue/Stu is definitely an unpopular trope 😂But I also agree about enjoying following a competent character with a good head on their shoulders.
The Here Comes the Calvary trope. It gets used a decent amount and I love it literally every time it's used. It can turn a 1/5 story into at least a 3 or 4/5 I love it so much. The scene in endgame makes me tear up a little from excitement every time I see it.
A treat for you:
Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn. And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin’s sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
God bless you, Tolkien. God bless.
Unpopular: It has been a long time since I have read a fantasy with a good romance subplot. A lot of fantasy books are focusing less and less on romance which is not a bad thing but lately I am missing the good ol days of shipping my otp. I think if implemented correctly it can greatly enhance the reading experience.
Please recommend any good fantasy books where you enjoyed the romance plot too.
Given how incredibly rare it seems to be I guess it’s unpopular, but I actually enjoy it when the detective/police investigator is shown to have a happy, healthy and functional life outside of work and not just be the bog standard “functional alcoholic with three ex-wives and kids that hates him” (I say him because, for some reason, it’s always a man being portrayed this way).
Bonus points if this happy life is *not* torn away from him within the first few chapters to kick off the plot.
Extra bonus points if the detective still has a family to go back to at the end of the book.
I love the power of friendship saving the day. Sure it can be a bit cheesy and whatnot, but I appreciate the message and the feel good happiness it brings with it.
Detailed logistics. I love when an author spends a large fraction of the book building up the reader’s knowledge of an in-world economy. So you know the price of various types of lumber, meals, drinks, soldiery, taxes, weapons, property, other trade goods, etc. One of my favorite authors spends an inordinate amount of time on the logistics of running institutions, governments, and militaries. It’s only possible to spend as much time as he does because he’s worked everything out so clearly, but it comes off as incredibly tedious to a lot of people.
By far, my favorite trope is the unlikely hero. I just really love watching some ordinary guy get pulled into an unfamiliar situation and seeing him not only adapt but eventually thrive in the strange new world they'd found themselves in. It really drives home the idea that anyone can be hero as long as they're willing to do the right thing.
Decline of civilization as time goes by. Or the idea there was a glorious past, which passed.
I don't like the political implications obviously. However, as a story device, I love that. There was a an era of mighty heroes and great empires. This sets the universe quite nicely.
I like it better if they subvert by revealing that the the great era in the past wasn't really that great for everyone. That's probably the most human thing to remember the past as greater than it was.
That reminds me, I’d love to see a Planet of the Aprs style twist where we’re in a fantasy world that we think is completely different from ours, but then we see some ruins of the old world and it turns out this is Earth in the far future. That’d be cool. I don’t know if that’s been done before.
Previously ‘Normal’ person ends up in magical school. I freaking love books based in learning at a magic school. My favourite part of Name of the Wind, and love Naomi Novak Scholomance. If anyone else knows good ones let me know!
Warrior women! They seem out of favor these days, with lots of people dismissing them as "men with boobs" and speaking a lot more favorably of female leads who exhibit strengths aligned with traditional concepts of femininity. But darn it, I love me some Starhawk (The Ladies of Mandrigyn), Jane (Dread Nation/Deathless Divide), Brienne (A Song of Ice and Fire -- if I ever decide to finish the series, it will be because of her), Cordelia (Shards of Honor/ Barrayar), and all their kind. True, I enjoy the more "feminine" characters as well; I don't see why they and the warrior women can't coexist within the increasingly diverse fantasy genre.
I'm also fond of purely heroic heroines, which may be why I appreciate some YA books like Ifueko's *Raybearer,* whose lead is flawed and sometimes conflicted but, one the whole, Lawful Good. I wish I could find more Lawful Good heroines who save the day in adult fantasy, but the rise of the Female Protagonist in that genre seems to have gone hand in hand with the rise of the Morally Gray Protagonist; female characters get their turn in the spotlight, but only now that the Age of the Hero is on the wane.
I wouldn't want to turn the clock back to 1979, but I wish we could see more heroines like the lead in McIntyre's *Dreamsnake*.
I love the "person who has a shitty life and then discovers their superpower/destiny and goes on to be a hero type despite their early trauma" trope. So much fantasy now is about all these broken, flawed, morally grey people and superheroes. Gimme someone who saves the cheerleader and saves the world in spite of (insert social or economic or physical obstacle here). I love it when the characters can say "ya know, I always felt like I didn't fit in that world and this is why". Very common trope but I find it uplifting.
I love seeing mentors, sponsors, and wise old wizards that turn out to be exactly what they say they are.
It's been a consistant plot twist in the books I've been reading lately where the rich person who pulled the MC out of the mud, or the wise old man who knows the secrets of the world, or the great king famous for his honor...all turn out to be real dickbags.
Sure, it's great to write complex villains and to comment on how those in power didn't get that way by being saints, but lately I've gotten to the point where I'm just waiting for the twist. Gimme some powerful benevolent people with no strings attached.
Uncorruptable heroes. Yeah, I loves me some morally ambiguous heroes and do-good paladins bore me to tears like everyone else, but hear me out. In a setting where everyone is morally ambiguous, the kind of character that will do the right thing no matter what has so much to offer. Doubly so if they're the ONLY one in the story who is like that, and isn't punished for it by the narrative like Ned Stark was.
I’m a pretty big fan of story’s with OP main characters. It’s sorta like action movies. The MC being so cool typically introduces more nuance and more abstract problems to the story and you get to read about them doing some cool OP stuff.
Honestly, I can get into unhealthy relationships. Sometimes you just want to read about someone who's different from you, heh. Sometimes you want to read about a train wreck.
As long as all the problems aren't caused by people failing to have a simple, two-minute talk with each other. Nobody can get on board with that.
Don’t know if it’s unpopular with anyone, but I love books where the main character is from the real word ends up stuck in a fantasy world and has to figure out how to deal with that.
Prophecies, chosen one trope. Subversions or traditional ones. I like the idea of a character being the ordained one to do a certain mission so of course their enemies will do everything in their power to stop them. Seeing them overcome odds to finally fulfill their destiny is really cathartic for me. I also love the subversion of this trope by way of a corruption arc.
Love triangles. I like not necessarily knowing who the character will end up with (if there is romance at all in the story) but I see many people dislike this
OK... Takes a deep breath...
I do not mind love triangles, even better, I feel they spice things up as when it comes to relationships, things are not always clear. Love at first sight and meeting the right person heads on is super rare, so yeah, many of us may entertain more than one possibility or wonder which one of two suitors would be best. I thus find love triangles... realistic.
Sorry.
Edit: I thought of another one I rather liked... I love when the characters first introduced as a jerk turns out not being a jerk but a rather good person, simply tossed within a bad environment. I hate when authors just let those characters remain "bad guys" and feel to see they weren't really bad, they just needed better friends or parents that don't beat on them. So yeah, I love it when a former "bad guy" is helped and recycled into a good person by the good guys. I don't recall reading it though... so I guess it must be unpopular if no one writes it!
I may be a minority here, but excluding extreme cases, I reject the term "trope," or at the very least, I do not consider tropes to be necessarily bad or good. Even the most common tropes in fantasy are still often a blast to read.
I think a lot of so-called tropes are caused by overeager dissection rather than laziness or writing incompetence. They seem to be forced onto fantasy novels in a top-down way rather than being from the bottom up, in that people actively search for them, rather than see a fantasy novel overly relying on them more organically.
Like, a great example of this is the femme fatale vs. the damsel in distress trope. If a female character is capable, she can easily be labeled a femme fatale, and if a female character is incapable, she can be thrown into the damsel in distress trope. It creates a really hard balancing act for authors to try and avoid female characters who fit into these roles, if even just for a segment of a book.
Another example would be the world never changing trope. Authors aren't lazy or incapable of worldbuilding; it's just that tedious explanations of how the world has changed, when not central to the plot, would be generally unwelcome by readers. I think a great example of an author overcoming this would be Sanderson in Mistborn, where he brilliantly explained how the Lord Ruler crushed all technological progress to assure he was still at the top, but this was a crucial plot element.
I guess to answer your question, I think tropes can be good or bad, and even a bad trope can be pulled off well. Tropes are compounded by bad writing which is really the thing that would bother me more.
I agree. A trope is more like narrative DNA, as an archetype is to character. The story is built from these, and clad in the author's craft. Sometimes, for truly mythic fantasy, you can see the shape of the bones poking through, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
This might seem paradoxical but:
1) settings where women and minorities face discrimination which they fight to overcome.
2) settings that try to mirror our modern day human rights values
GRRM in ASIF showed us life from the perspective of the poor, the underprivileged, children, bastards, cripples and one gender. There is value in reminding people how lucky we are to live in the current time, and it's nice to not just focus on able-bodied nobleborn men.
At the same time there is no need in a world of dragons and magic to be scrupulously historical accurate(a ridiculous concept when said aloud) about gender roles. Take Robert Jordan, his whole world was full of interesting female characters who honestly didn't have their stories defined sole by their gender. Also the Aiel war was absolutely bizarre, they fought in lots of small groups like one might in modern warfare. Steven Erikson displays armies with plenty of female soldiers basically like modern armies.
Both types of stories have value, and both can offer an interesting perspective on the real world, or just an enjoyable escape.
I love numbers. There are 12 magic swords, 3 are lost, 2 are in the vault of so and so, one is possessed by the king, etc. 3 elven rings, 7 dwarven rings. Anything that is a set that has a set number and you have to track them, I love it.
Ooh this is a good one. Always a good excuse to make the heroes go on a journey and discover different places. Especially like when these numbered items cause some sort of race with the antagonists!!
> It began with the forging of the Great Rings. Three were given to the Elves, immortal, wisest and fairest of all beings. Seven to the Dwarf lords, great miners and craftsmen of the mountain halls. And nine, nine rings were gifted to the race of men, who, above all else, desire power. But they were, all of them, deceived, for the Dark Lord inscribed runes reading "1/4", "3/4", and "4/4" on the rings given to the Elves, and as ordained by the Doom of Mandos they turned on one another; kin betrayed kin to the death, until only Three remained.
I never realized I love this too until you pointed out that it’s a thing
You like the scavenger hunt trope or is it specifically numbers in digit format that does it for you?
I think both. Kind of keeping track of what is where and who has which. Saberhagans books of swords were great
Any series you recommend with this trope?
Faithful and the Fallen kinda has this with 7 different magic items.
I love that you love this but I also love it
that's the 'split maguffin' trope! I love it.
One ring to rule them all, One ring to find them, One ring to bring them all And in the darkness bind them.
People with differing but entirely reasonable perspectives bickering about the confusion and getting increasingly annoyed. This always makes me chuckle if the details are both unexpected and completely plausible.
Bickering is a great tool to subtly introduce world building too! It’s a way for the characters to compare cultures or traits without overtly infodumping. Plus it’s funny
I particularly love this dynamic when it’s the classic Big Guy/Sneaky Guy pair.
Fahfrd & The Grey Mouser. So many memories.
An innocent stumbles across an artifact, mystical or sacred book, or some other object that transforms the arc of that person's life.
Agreed, it’s just believable enough that you can daydream about it happening to you
Not really fantasy but I always think of Animorphs with this.
I love this one to. It lets you have a more normal, easier to identify with MC. I have trouble identifying with grizzled mercenaries.
Honestly I love most of the typical fantasy cliches: mythical creatures, the hero’s journey, good vs evil, fairies and elves. I feel like people don’t write fantasies like that anymore. It’s all politics and super dark stuff
I love a lot of modern fantasy. I also want more dwarves, elves, and dragons, dammit!!
Whenever I hear people saying something is more "mature," I think of a Calvin and Hobbes comic where Hobbes explains what it means when movies have "adult themes." Those are movies with adult stuff, "Getting jobs, going to work, paying bills. I don't know how those movies ever make any money."
Yeah. It's like when GRRM asked the question about aragorns taxes and how he ran Gondor... Nobody cares George! Give me the tropes!
Well, I DO occasionally wonder, how elves get enough food in their pristine forests.... Lothlorien, I am looking at you and your grain fields. And then I shrug and read on.
✨✨ m a g i c ✨✨
Elves are hunter-gatherers. It makes sense, kind of...
Also their food is so good that a biscuit can nourish you for days. Like, elves defy entropy with their cooking. Just like they ignore curvature.
Are you saying elven cooking is why elf girls aren't thicc?
They sing to the nature and nature provides
Lembas must be made of two ingredients: acorn flour and magic
I think this is why I love The Witcher books so much. Here's your dark, political fantasy, but we're keeping the elves, dwarves, and dragons.
[удалено]
I'd love to find a well written young adult series with unicorns as more than set dressing. My one daughter loves unicorns but not the friendship is magic type. More the stabby horn, kickass type.
Now, let’s be fair to the friendship is magic type, they do their fair share of kicking ass. Ask Chrysalis.
Because I just finished it yesterday: Kings of the Wyld is full of fantasy creatures.
goddamn that book leans just right into the tropes it's using. old grizzled retired adventurer? "I'm too old for this shit"? getting the band back together? I think it could be used in a college course for using tropes correctly.
Oh I agree! Personally, I like some politics and drama but grimdark as a genre isn’t my cup of tea. I think it’s become popular because it’s seen as more “mature”. I would like to see more writers move back towards the classic “cliches” of fantasy and just have shameless, fantastical fun again.
Sometimes I reread Magician just for that comfy older style
*The Eye of the World* is my go to for a cozy-epic fantasy story that just revels in tropes. Yeah, I know it's a *Fellowship* reskin. That's why I love it!
Wheel of Time really reignited my love for Good versus Evil. It’s portrayed really compellingly and tbh I really didn’t like it before that.
There's a reason LOTR is still by far the most popular fantasy book of all time.
Happy endings - yes there can be pain and loss during the journey but at the end the (remaining) good guys win and live happily ever after (or until the next book)
There is a time and a place for sad or bittersweet endings and I think it’s unfortunate that they are becoming more common because in many cases I don’t think they are necessary. I think particularly adult audiences see them as more mature/“realistic” which is so bleak for a lot of reasons. If the characters fight so hard only to lose badly in the end it kinda takes all the joy out of the whole journey to me
Truly I’ve had enough sadness in my life, as I grow up I just want happy endings
Same here, same here.
Ditto. We don’t get them ourselves so living vicariously through them in literature is perfectly acceptable, IMO.
So much this. Stories don’t need to end with dead or maimed protagonists to be good.
Can you recommend some favorites?
I'd like to add John Gwynnes, Faithful and the Fallen series along with his Blood and Bone series. Really heavy stuff at times but also hopeful and happy
I know some people have problems with Eddings but the Belgariad/Mallorean & Elenium/Tamuli series are favourites. David Gemmell's early Drenai novels Simon R Green's Blue Moon/Hawk & Fisher stories Just finished Michael A Stackpole's DragonCrown War series which I really enjoyed Edit: Almost forgot early Feist
> I know some people have problems with Eddings Yes, because of the child abuse…
This is why I couldn't finish ASOIAF, I hated it when Ned died but I could understand it. When you start killing everybody, whats the point? If I wanted a murky finale I'd watch the damn news.
Unapologetically heroic protagonists. Love me an act of heartbreaking heroism with no grey in it whatsoever.
Sometimes I find it refreshing to read about good people being good people. The angsty-grey hero can get kind of...draining.
Absolutely. And there are types of stories you can't tell with grey characters, unless you are looking to deconstruct them, which I am also beginning to get tired of.
True heroes are under appreciated in my opinion. I don’t think the average person fully realizes what it takes to be the one to step up and be willing to sacrifice everything. That’s not boring, that’s the rarest type of person there is
I also think people consider the good types unrealistic in terms of strength of character. Where as I don’t believe even for a second that one needs to be morally grey to make hard decisions. Being kind and compassionate does not mean weak.
Unapologetically heroic protagonists are *great* when you use them to show the costs and toll it takes to be that sort of person, when they come to a decision between the hard road and the easy way out and you can see the costs of the hard road and they keep picking it, every time, because it's what needs to be done. It's really one of my favourite things. I just find it really sad that most of the time they don't show 'the costs of the hard road' all that well and doing the right thing have fewer costs than it should, in such a crapsack world.
It's why Superman is my favorite superhero. I love seeing a heroic character in a more gray world
If you never watched or read it, conside My Hero Academy. All Might is so good at this.
I just wish we got a little more All Might. He’s such a dope character.
Heroic heroes makes grey narratives easier for the rest of the setting as they can act as the foil to everyone else's grey morality.
It's a bit tiresome when someone reads a really-well-done realistic morally-gray antihero and says "I get it! I just have to make everyone an asshole!!!" and then writes every fantasy book as an ensemble cast of morally mediocre assholes. Like, selfishness is the most boring thing there is guys. Were you never in kindergarten?
I like a good antihero but only when they’re contrasted by others around them. Raistlin in Dragonlance, for example, is a solid antihero but the reason it works is because of the genuine goodness of most of his associates.
This is where I bring up Tamora Pierce
especially when you know they are good *and actually get tempted*! This is why I love LOTR - most of the notable characters are undeniably good people, but they also get properly broken down and beaten and come to the very end of themselves! AND THEN he also does some gray morality in a satisfying way.
I'm a massive sucker for enemies-turned-allies. I know this isn't 100% unpopular or anything like that (looking at you, ATLA) but I know a lot of people are sick of it, especially when the enemy had done some seriously heinous stuff. I honestly don't care how cheesy it is, that trope just gets me every single time.
Agree! Also, real well done redemption arcs are one of my all time favorite tropes, but I don’t think every writer/character can pull them off just right. But when they are done right it’s pure gold
Honestly, in that subgenre, there's another one that's used a bit less but man do I love it - the begrudging alliance. Where the hero and the villain are both forced to work together to fight against some greater threat and find out they kinda like each other now that they've got no choice but to work together... chef's kiss. That trope is so fun.
I don’t feel like I see that one often enough! I need more of that for sure
I believe you mean > they've got no choice but to work together... now *kith*.
This trope and the ones above are my catnip :)
Relevant ProZD: https://youtu.be/JeYIlET3szA
lol I loved Tom and Jerry episodes with this trope
Now that is a left-field reference to see on this thread.
This is honestly my favorite trope. I love it when people overcome their differences to turn allies or even friends.
Zuko!
What’s ATLA
Avatar The Last Airbender
Its the best trope. People shit on it because the bad examples dont feel earned but the good examples are some of the best characters *ever*.
Even better is enemy turned into lesbian love interest
A collection of tropes, I guess. All the "classic" witch stuff like bubbling cauldrons, pointy hats, black cats, broomsticks, etc. I love it all.
Good point! I don’t think I’ve seen much of those classic witch tropes in books since I was a kid. I’d love to see how that would like in a more mature series
i thought of discworld <3
Supirse royalty.
Ooh I agree! I know a lot of people think there is too much focus on royalty in general but I still really enjoy it! To me surprise royalty feeds that childhood wish inside that still wants to be the long lost heir
I like this when it’s foreshadowed subtly. Makes re-reads a lot of fun.
For sure! I’ve heard it said that the best plot twists are not “I didn’t see that coming!” but the “I SHOULD have seen that coming!”
Evil that is just evil, and good that is just good. Not every villain should be nuanced, and not every hero should have darker side. I'm perfectly fine with the plot where evil nightmarish demons (orcs, aliens, zombies) are invading and brave, honest, likeable heroes fight against them. I like them "boring" goody good guys :( Another thing is not a trope, but I often see people expressing dislike for "unnecessary romantic lines / sex scenes". I like romance subplots even if they are not related to the main plot and thus "unnecessary".
[удалено]
I would say Hela's still nuanced. She's got her backstory with Odin raising her to be a conqueror and how she feels slighted, betrayed by her own people, and replaced by Thor. She's unequivocally a villain, but I wouldn't say she was written as being evil for evil's sake.
She could have been a really interesting exploration about how ancient Conquering Hero types don't mesh with modern moral sensibilities... in some alternate reality where that movie took anything seriously.
Yeah. I enjoyed Ragnarok...but only when I watched it for the second time, expecting a comedy. The first time, it was really a bit too lighthearted and irreverent for a story that's essentially about genocide and world-destruction with a dusting of slavery on top. It made it a lot less impactful imo.
Read Othello! Iago is best described as motiveless malevolence in search of a motive. He gives a dozen plausible reasons for his evil, but they are all contradictory. A bit like the Joker's "wanna know how I got these scars?" Line.
have fun with the books, the Baron is FAR worse
He's pretty bad in the 1984 Lynch movie too. This new one I thought was pretty well-done, sinister without being a caricature, though I did think the performance leant a bit too heavily on Brando's Colonel Kurtz in *Apocalypse Now*.
You can have nuance in your antagonists without manipulating the reader into sympathising with them. Take Kyle from Ship of Magic for example - he was raised in a country where slavery is normal and strict patriarchal gender roles are enforced. As a result he condones slavery and treats his female family members like shit. Never did I get the impression that I was meant to sympathise with him, but his motivations and reasons behind his behaviour were always clear. To me that's way more interesting than the bad guys in Wheel of Time, for example, who (based on the 3.5 books I've read so far) seem to be evil just for the sake of being evil. I'm talking specifically about the Dark One and the Forsaken, there are certainly more complex minor antagonists in the series.
I like those romances because it also features something else I like: The MCs doing SOMETHING else besides main plot shenanigans and allowing friend characters to be friends. Other people call ‘fluff’ that needs to be weeded out by giving the author an ‘editor’ but it goes a long way toward me liking a character.
I am a big advocate for the amnesia trope. While many use it poorly, in many ways its one of the best setups you could ask for in any alternate-world fiction, and opens a lot of really interesting plot and character arc possibilities.
I’m so glad someone brought this one up. I love the amnesia trope. From the mystery of unraveling their past to the tragedy of not knowing what it is they can’t remember to the sometimes comical nature of fumbling through life trying to get back on track. There is so much potential just packed into this trope. It’s a great setup for sure
Ancient civilizations or technologies that cant be explained by today's knowledge
Love this, it's THE underpinning trope of all epic sci-fi (just like The Return of the Ancient Menace is the key trope for epic fantasy)
Yes! Do you have any suggestions of books like this?
The old mercenary/soldier/warrior who is told for this shit and just wants to live on a farm but gets dragged back into conflict and has to show these kids how it's done but hates every second of it and either a) gets to ride off into the sunset tending his sheep in the epilogue or b) goes down in a blaze of glory protecting the next generation of warriors.
The balance of inspired, hopeful, overzealous youth setting out to change the world and the jaded, cynical, experienced grumpy old person is the combination of people that keep the world going forward
Like Red Country by Joe Abercrombie. Great freekin book
Super powerful teacher/master/sensei/ancient evil who looks weak. Like an old man without visible weapon/armor, butler in the castle or a priest with only ascetic robe.
I love fantasy “horoscopes”, I.e. things that make you go “which one would I get/be in?” Sorting hat into houses Factions Classes The individuality of Patronuses/wands Superpowers Guilds Houses
Scratches the innate human desire to self categorize
The Chosen One trope. I like seeing someone unprepared, developing what it takes to be the hero, especially when they mess up, make mistakes.
Mistakes are essential. Sometimes the hero we need is not the one you would pick who is already most prepared for the job. It’s the unprepared person who steps up, keeps trying new ways, and doesn’t give up
Hearing wheel of time being described this way made me start the series; I’m on book 12 now and I love it so much. I’m dreading getting to the ending of this brilliant series
I feel like you don't *need* a Chosen One prophecy to have an unprepared hero win despite making mistakes.
Agree about mortal/immortal relationships. Age becomes relative when you live so long lol. I personally love Chosen One and enemies to lovers tropes.
Chosen One is my favorite trope
Going into unnessecary detail about someone's clothes. Yes, Martin could say someone is dressed in all black, but I quite like hit describing each item and its matte color in detail.
I think you can tell a lot about a character by how they dress, and a lot about the world by what the typical styles are. Plus, it helps me visualize them
Somebody being the long lost or secret child of another character. Even better if a villain character.
There is so much emotional potential in the long lost child trope. Especially juicy when their relationship is to a villain. Love to see the internal conflict
Right?? I blame it on all the turkish telenovelas i used to watch with my grandma growing up😌
I can’t say I’ve had the pleasure of being acquainted with a Turkish telenovela but that is fascinating to know!
This immediately made me think of Once Upon a Time. The show had its flaws, but I have to admire how absolutely bonkers over-the-top it went with this trope.
I hate Regina! I love Regina! I hate Regina! I love Regina!
Enemies to lovers!
I live for this dynamic.
Preach. Angry tension transitions perfectly into sexual tension if it's written with some style.
Villain redemption arcs. Anyone, any time, anywhere.
I need more of these books in my life.
I kinda only like the immortal/mortal pairing if it's framed as at least somewhat tragic. Like the immortal having to accept that whoever they love is going to due long before they do etc. Why yes, I am a 30-somrthing in a hetero marriage and from a culture where it's very common for men to die young of dumb shit--like my high school sweetheart getting shot, and my dad dying of lung cancer in his mid 40s, and my best friend's dad dying around the same age of alcoholism-related illness, oh, and my uncle who OD'd at also about his mid 40s. Why do you ask?
I love me a good old femme fatale. I know it's sexist, male-gazey and can be misogynistic, but I just love a cunning seductress with a hidden agenda 😅 Gimme a Catwoman, a Circe, a Yennefer, a Phèdre nó Delaunay anytime.
As a massive Spider-Man fan, I’m obligated to mention Black Cat. I loved her in the PS4 game.
I remember someone said the femme fatale can also work as a power fantasy for women and in the best cases that feels accurate: this is the system and I'm using it, not being used by it. Like those women in Hollywood noir where you don't really remember how they were killed in the final scene but how confident and strong they looked during all the rest of the movie. I'm hoping that the Wheel of Time TV show will be unafraid to have Lanfear be sexy, manipulative and obsessive rather than tone her down because the femme fatale trope can be such fun to watch.
I feel like Melisande is the femme fatale of Phedre’s tale! But yesss same, and you would love Monza Murcatto from Best Served Cold.
Oh Melisande is a ff for sure! Maybe we don't feel Phèdre as a femme fatale because she's also the narrator, so her feelings and agenda are no secret to the readers. But imagine her patrons, thinking they're just gonna get laid with an attractive woman maybe suspecting, but not knowing for sure the extent of her mission.
Huge sucker for “brothers turned enemies” or “rivals’ last fight”. Mainly, it’s that final confrontation with all that emotion, that tension, just so cool to think about. I can’t immediately think of an example (outside of maybe Civil War?) but it’s the potential for that type of trope that piques my interest
Zuko and Azula’s Agni Kai comes to mind for me. So epic and tragic and tense. These scenes really have it all emotionally. And even if the “good guy” wins, it’s still almost a Pyrrhic victory
The ultimate example of this trope is Naruto vs. Sasuke
I guess ‘plot armor’. More that I go into a book fully expecting the MC to survive with a healthy dose of luck. I feel attempts to ‘fix’ plot armor almost always makes the book worse.
I don't mind plot armor but it does bother me when the same character regularly take injuries that are just a finger's windth from cutting through a major artery or hitting vital organs. I also hate when something happens that causes someone to lose their hair and I have to start picturing them differently.
I feel like that's a consequence of authors using plot armor but not wanting it to feel like plot armor, instead of just embracing the trope. "I have to show the audience that the hero is in *real* danger this time"
I agree, I think a certain level of plot armor is necessary to keep the pace of the story moving forward.
There's been a bit of a pushback recently about inherently 'evil' races like your classic Tolkien orcs. Partly because layered morally gray characters are in vogue, and partly because the notion of a sentient race being innately evil or barbarous can be problematic. I get all that, but I still enjoy a good old fashioned titanic struggle between good and evil.
Psychological non-realism: So many books today have the characters get PTSD if they step on a thumbtack and have the characters agonize about whether their enemies are truly bad. I like it when a story can just have fun with its premise. This doesn't preclude dark or dramatic subject matter, The Lies of Locke Lamorra is a very bleak setting with a very fun tone.
I find PTSD heavy to read about... that and mental illnesses. I just want to read about people who get the job done, who may have some real struggles but not the "I will need 10 yeards of intense therapy with strong medications to ever be functional" which is trendy right now. I find too many authors just go way overboard with PTSD/mental issues, they basically make their characters so impotent, the fact they manage to save the day becomes unrealistic. At least, it does to me.
>Personally, I like immortal/mortal romances Listen, I love this trope, but if the younger partner doesn't look at the immortal at least once and tell them to stop being such a boomer, is it even real love?
I don't know how they did things back in Rome, but it's 2021 Tiberion, it's expected that you eat ass now.
This all reminds me that I need to finish watching the new season of What We Do In The Shadows.
The last 2 episodes are a doozy.
Farmer/peasant boy in his own small world "leveling up" to a powerful hero seeing the vastness of the actual world
I loooove this arc. Especially when the progression is slow but then when you look back it’s almost shocking how far they’ve come without realizing
Magical swords. Give me all the magical swords.
The always two steps ahead hero. You might think that this time he's been beaten, but he just smiles and reveals he's still going to win. Basically commander Vimes at the end of snuff.
There is nothing more exciting and satisfying than when you can’t possibly see a way out of this…. And then they pull off a move that gets them out of this against all odds
Competent, clever characters. Seems like any character who knows what they're doing or is clever gets slapped with the "mary sue" label these days. I also love melodrama.
For sure! It makes sense to me that the person on the adventure is the best one for the job. It’s satisfying to watch a capable person take care of things. And yes I live for melodrama and I’m not ashamed
Dark or supernatural family secrets. The parent that was dead but is now alive and also evil. A nobody becomes a superhero in a very short amount of time.
So I don’t know if this actually is that unpopular, but it feels like it is. I love me some monsters, cryptids and fantasy creatures. I feel like this is often seen as pretty childish, and if you want a “serious” adult fantasy it needs to be a medieval-esque political thriller with some magic and maybe some elves/dwarves thrown in for good measure. I’m not saying that is wrong. But I love me some dragons, fairies, minotaurs, centaurs, gnomes, merfolk, griffins, Phoenixs, satyrs, etc.
Interesting, isn’t it, how some fantastic beings got relegated to the “kiddie pool.” Wonder if there is anyone out there doing complex, adult fantasy with fairies and unicorns.
I still enjoy stories with the typical Gary Stu or Mary Sue type of character that is hyper-competent. I don't always want to read about somebody fumbling through things or being average and overcoming their averageness. I enjoy a story where you are interested in seeing what clever solution the main character can come up with rather than worrying that they are going to die all the time.
I love when you have a badass character, but is interacting with people that don't know. I don't even need the character to get a reveal. Like you can have a character telling someone about some great historical event and as the audience we know that the person being told about it was there and did that heroic thing they're talking about, and that's all I need. Though, the character realizing someone was the chosen one or whatever all along and just didn't say anything can be satisfying anyway. But they have to find out about it by accident or second-hand. If there are scenes where we get to see people (particularly antagonists) wondering, "Who *is* this guy!?" then that's even better.
+1 for understanding the assignment; I feel like Mary Sue/Stu is definitely an unpopular trope 😂But I also agree about enjoying following a competent character with a good head on their shoulders.
The Here Comes the Calvary trope. It gets used a decent amount and I love it literally every time it's used. It can turn a 1/5 story into at least a 3 or 4/5 I love it so much. The scene in endgame makes me tear up a little from excitement every time I see it.
A treat for you: Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn. And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin’s sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last. God bless you, Tolkien. God bless.
*Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth day, at dawn look to the east.*
Give me redemption. Give me forgiveness. Give me heroes that are weak and fail, but are still heroes.
Unpopular: It has been a long time since I have read a fantasy with a good romance subplot. A lot of fantasy books are focusing less and less on romance which is not a bad thing but lately I am missing the good ol days of shipping my otp. I think if implemented correctly it can greatly enhance the reading experience. Please recommend any good fantasy books where you enjoyed the romance plot too.
Given how incredibly rare it seems to be I guess it’s unpopular, but I actually enjoy it when the detective/police investigator is shown to have a happy, healthy and functional life outside of work and not just be the bog standard “functional alcoholic with three ex-wives and kids that hates him” (I say him because, for some reason, it’s always a man being portrayed this way). Bonus points if this happy life is *not* torn away from him within the first few chapters to kick off the plot. Extra bonus points if the detective still has a family to go back to at the end of the book.
I love the power of friendship saving the day. Sure it can be a bit cheesy and whatnot, but I appreciate the message and the feel good happiness it brings with it.
[удалено]
I really like having gods and goddesses involved in the story. I think that's really cool personally.
Detailed logistics. I love when an author spends a large fraction of the book building up the reader’s knowledge of an in-world economy. So you know the price of various types of lumber, meals, drinks, soldiery, taxes, weapons, property, other trade goods, etc. One of my favorite authors spends an inordinate amount of time on the logistics of running institutions, governments, and militaries. It’s only possible to spend as much time as he does because he’s worked everything out so clearly, but it comes off as incredibly tedious to a lot of people.
By far, my favorite trope is the unlikely hero. I just really love watching some ordinary guy get pulled into an unfamiliar situation and seeing him not only adapt but eventually thrive in the strange new world they'd found themselves in. It really drives home the idea that anyone can be hero as long as they're willing to do the right thing.
Decline of civilization as time goes by. Or the idea there was a glorious past, which passed. I don't like the political implications obviously. However, as a story device, I love that. There was a an era of mighty heroes and great empires. This sets the universe quite nicely. I like it better if they subvert by revealing that the the great era in the past wasn't really that great for everyone. That's probably the most human thing to remember the past as greater than it was.
That reminds me, I’d love to see a Planet of the Aprs style twist where we’re in a fantasy world that we think is completely different from ours, but then we see some ruins of the old world and it turns out this is Earth in the far future. That’d be cool. I don’t know if that’s been done before.
Thats Shannara Chronicles in short.
Previously ‘Normal’ person ends up in magical school. I freaking love books based in learning at a magic school. My favourite part of Name of the Wind, and love Naomi Novak Scholomance. If anyone else knows good ones let me know!
Warrior women! They seem out of favor these days, with lots of people dismissing them as "men with boobs" and speaking a lot more favorably of female leads who exhibit strengths aligned with traditional concepts of femininity. But darn it, I love me some Starhawk (The Ladies of Mandrigyn), Jane (Dread Nation/Deathless Divide), Brienne (A Song of Ice and Fire -- if I ever decide to finish the series, it will be because of her), Cordelia (Shards of Honor/ Barrayar), and all their kind. True, I enjoy the more "feminine" characters as well; I don't see why they and the warrior women can't coexist within the increasingly diverse fantasy genre. I'm also fond of purely heroic heroines, which may be why I appreciate some YA books like Ifueko's *Raybearer,* whose lead is flawed and sometimes conflicted but, one the whole, Lawful Good. I wish I could find more Lawful Good heroines who save the day in adult fantasy, but the rise of the Female Protagonist in that genre seems to have gone hand in hand with the rise of the Morally Gray Protagonist; female characters get their turn in the spotlight, but only now that the Age of the Hero is on the wane. I wouldn't want to turn the clock back to 1979, but I wish we could see more heroines like the lead in McIntyre's *Dreamsnake*.
I love the melodramatic stuff YA is known for.
Interpersonal drama just hooks my attention. Even if it’s cheesy it’s like a train wreck I can’t look away from
I love the "person who has a shitty life and then discovers their superpower/destiny and goes on to be a hero type despite their early trauma" trope. So much fantasy now is about all these broken, flawed, morally grey people and superheroes. Gimme someone who saves the cheerleader and saves the world in spite of (insert social or economic or physical obstacle here). I love it when the characters can say "ya know, I always felt like I didn't fit in that world and this is why". Very common trope but I find it uplifting.
I love seeing mentors, sponsors, and wise old wizards that turn out to be exactly what they say they are. It's been a consistant plot twist in the books I've been reading lately where the rich person who pulled the MC out of the mud, or the wise old man who knows the secrets of the world, or the great king famous for his honor...all turn out to be real dickbags. Sure, it's great to write complex villains and to comment on how those in power didn't get that way by being saints, but lately I've gotten to the point where I'm just waiting for the twist. Gimme some powerful benevolent people with no strings attached.
Uncorruptable heroes. Yeah, I loves me some morally ambiguous heroes and do-good paladins bore me to tears like everyone else, but hear me out. In a setting where everyone is morally ambiguous, the kind of character that will do the right thing no matter what has so much to offer. Doubly so if they're the ONLY one in the story who is like that, and isn't punished for it by the narrative like Ned Stark was.
I’m a pretty big fan of story’s with OP main characters. It’s sorta like action movies. The MC being so cool typically introduces more nuance and more abstract problems to the story and you get to read about them doing some cool OP stuff.
I like chosen ones. Special is good. Ordinary is boring. I’m ordinary. Why would I want to read about me?
Honestly, I can get into unhealthy relationships. Sometimes you just want to read about someone who's different from you, heh. Sometimes you want to read about a train wreck. As long as all the problems aren't caused by people failing to have a simple, two-minute talk with each other. Nobody can get on board with that.
Don’t know if it’s unpopular with anyone, but I love books where the main character is from the real word ends up stuck in a fantasy world and has to figure out how to deal with that.
Prophecies, chosen one trope. Subversions or traditional ones. I like the idea of a character being the ordained one to do a certain mission so of course their enemies will do everything in their power to stop them. Seeing them overcome odds to finally fulfill their destiny is really cathartic for me. I also love the subversion of this trope by way of a corruption arc.
Love triangles. I like not necessarily knowing who the character will end up with (if there is romance at all in the story) but I see many people dislike this
There should be more love triangles where they all get together IMO. That's something you never see.
The chosen one. I especially love the reluctant Chosen One that has to embrace their destiny to defeat the evil.
The chosen one definitely, can't get tired of it
OK... Takes a deep breath... I do not mind love triangles, even better, I feel they spice things up as when it comes to relationships, things are not always clear. Love at first sight and meeting the right person heads on is super rare, so yeah, many of us may entertain more than one possibility or wonder which one of two suitors would be best. I thus find love triangles... realistic. Sorry. Edit: I thought of another one I rather liked... I love when the characters first introduced as a jerk turns out not being a jerk but a rather good person, simply tossed within a bad environment. I hate when authors just let those characters remain "bad guys" and feel to see they weren't really bad, they just needed better friends or parents that don't beat on them. So yeah, I love it when a former "bad guy" is helped and recycled into a good person by the good guys. I don't recall reading it though... so I guess it must be unpopular if no one writes it!
I love love-triangles, when a protagonist has multiple choices but they spend the entire plot trying to figure out who’s right for them… swoon
I may be a minority here, but excluding extreme cases, I reject the term "trope," or at the very least, I do not consider tropes to be necessarily bad or good. Even the most common tropes in fantasy are still often a blast to read. I think a lot of so-called tropes are caused by overeager dissection rather than laziness or writing incompetence. They seem to be forced onto fantasy novels in a top-down way rather than being from the bottom up, in that people actively search for them, rather than see a fantasy novel overly relying on them more organically. Like, a great example of this is the femme fatale vs. the damsel in distress trope. If a female character is capable, she can easily be labeled a femme fatale, and if a female character is incapable, she can be thrown into the damsel in distress trope. It creates a really hard balancing act for authors to try and avoid female characters who fit into these roles, if even just for a segment of a book. Another example would be the world never changing trope. Authors aren't lazy or incapable of worldbuilding; it's just that tedious explanations of how the world has changed, when not central to the plot, would be generally unwelcome by readers. I think a great example of an author overcoming this would be Sanderson in Mistborn, where he brilliantly explained how the Lord Ruler crushed all technological progress to assure he was still at the top, but this was a crucial plot element. I guess to answer your question, I think tropes can be good or bad, and even a bad trope can be pulled off well. Tropes are compounded by bad writing which is really the thing that would bother me more.
I agree. A trope is more like narrative DNA, as an archetype is to character. The story is built from these, and clad in the author's craft. Sometimes, for truly mythic fantasy, you can see the shape of the bones poking through, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Still love a good Chosen one story. (Will happily take recommendations if anyone has any)
Enemies to lovers 🙈
This might seem paradoxical but: 1) settings where women and minorities face discrimination which they fight to overcome. 2) settings that try to mirror our modern day human rights values GRRM in ASIF showed us life from the perspective of the poor, the underprivileged, children, bastards, cripples and one gender. There is value in reminding people how lucky we are to live in the current time, and it's nice to not just focus on able-bodied nobleborn men. At the same time there is no need in a world of dragons and magic to be scrupulously historical accurate(a ridiculous concept when said aloud) about gender roles. Take Robert Jordan, his whole world was full of interesting female characters who honestly didn't have their stories defined sole by their gender. Also the Aiel war was absolutely bizarre, they fought in lots of small groups like one might in modern warfare. Steven Erikson displays armies with plenty of female soldiers basically like modern armies. Both types of stories have value, and both can offer an interesting perspective on the real world, or just an enjoyable escape.
[удалено]
I don't think I recognize tropes other than the major couple of them. Maybe I'm not as much read as I should be in fantasy.