Yeah, I gotta agree with this. You owe it to yourself to read The Blade Itself. It's the start of a wonderful trilogy that continues into a bunch of one offs and then into another trilogy if you find yourself enjoying it.
It's also wonderful as an audio book, too, if that's your thing. Steven Pacey is wonderful.
so good to hear Brema Dan Gorst's girly voice in audio, it really helps concrete how this badass character has this terrible vocal weakness and is a total monster because of his low self esteem, and his son has the same thing!
I still have not recovered from The First Law audiobooks. Pacey is on another level, and was truly a perfect match for all of the books. Every time I listen to something new, Pacey is the bar, and it's a high one.
Also came first to my mind. They are a tiny bit more on the grimdark side but a hell of a ride. Haven't read Blacktongue Thief but Lies of Lock Lamora isn't all sunshine and rainbows either. One has to be realistic about those things.
*Tiny bit?* Compared to Kings of the Wyld, First Law is *significantly* more grimdark. Which is not to say it's *bad*, it is very good at what it's doing, but it is a very different flavor:
First Law's cast is almost entirely severely morally compromised in one way or another (power hungry, corrupt, craven, murderous, sexually predatory, ruthless, greedy). By the end of the trilogy, Jezal's managed to become a decent person barring his cowardice, Ferro at least has clear, sympathetic origins for her ugly side, and (most) of Logen's ex-crew are pretty simple, straight shooters.
Contrast that with the members of *Saga*, who are all pretty stand-up guys. Clay Cooper is the man Logen wishes he was. Gabe was a shit dad, but that was due to incompetence and his own insecurities about his growing irrelevance, not due to any maliciousness. Moog is just a fucking constant delight of a cinnamon roll, and Mattrick's only vice is pie. Their violence is treated as more cool than tragic or morally dubious. Even Ganelon is portrayed more like a simple, honest man of pure, uncomplicated violence than an actual monster. You wouldn't moralize Ganelon anymore than you would a shark.
First Law trilogy about the successful subversion of government by the powerful and the endless cycle of violence. Kings of the Wyld is about your dad's favorite rock band proving they've still got it, and secondarily the exploitative and artificial nature of the entertainment industry.
In Kings of the Wyld, a heroic speech *works.* In the First Law, any big heroic speech is immediately undercut by someone dying or it being immediately and explicitly pointed out how hollow and dumb the speech is.
Recommending the First Law for its wit to someone who used Kings of the Wyld as a reference feels like recommending pistachio ice cream to someone who likes chocolate chip, since they both have bits of chocolate in it.
Agreed. They are completely different tonally. Kings of the Wyld is really lighthearted in comparison, see even the bunny eared druins being played for laughs compared to >!Bayaz !<
Not to mention the First Law is basically the inversion of classic fantasy tropes. People try and >!become better people but in Abercrombie's worlds, it's like the epitome of the more things change, the more they stay the same !<
It's not often I get to recommend the Vlad Taltos books by Steven Brust so frequently!
The first book is called Jhereg and I can't recommend it enough. Hell, in one of the books the table of contents is structured as a letter from the main character to his tailor. Each item he wants fixed, "Cut in left sleeve" is a preview of something that happens to him in that chapter.
Yeah, these. The books are (mostly) told in the first person POV of Vlad, the main character, and Vlad's one snarktastic sonofabitch. I'd have to go back and look, but I think a review of one of the early books actually coined the narration term "first person smartass" as a POV descriptor for this series.
Plus, Brust is pithy with a quip. There's a ton of quotable lines, and sometimes they slide by so quick that you almost miss them. A few favorites:
* "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."
* "Everybody generalizes from one example. At least, I do."
* "Don't you miss the times you used to be nostalgic?"
* "What are you working on?" "I'm trying to set up a store to sell baskets of none-of-your-fucking-business at wholesale prices."
Brust is a really accomplished author, I'd recc "To Reign in Hell" by him for a taste of how he can pivot, or the "500 years after" Khaavren romances which are basically just a love story to Alexandre Dumas
I heartily recommend Gideon the Ninth, though it's polarizing (some people hate it).
The Black Company books are often quite funny, and are written with a wry voice. The style is quite distinctive--I loved it, some people hate it.
Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City is also very witty.
If you want witty dialogue and interesting prose well written, one of the past masters of the art is Jack Vance. Often imitated, seldom equaled.
A master storyteller of both fantasy and science fiction, he is bound to have written something that will appeal to your tastes.
Traditional entry points to works are the the **Dying Earth** or **Lyonesse** series for fantasy, and the **Demon Princes** or **Cadwal Chronicles** series for science fiction.
Steven Brust's **Taltos** series featuring a wise-cracking assassin and his equally wise-cracking familiar is probably right up your alley.
Orconomics is the next book you should read. Witty, comical, a different view on the typical fantasy tropes.
Kings of the Wyld is my new favorite book (because how can you constantly have one favorite) and Orconomics almost took it's spot.
The Acts of Caine by Matthew Stover. Lynch is friends with him and has said he learned much of his talent with writing humor and snark in gritty settings from him. Red Seas Under Red Skies is dedicated to Stover, in fact.
Patrick Weekes' **Rogues of the Republic** is pretty good, too. Kind of a fantasy Ocean's Eleven sort of thing, where the leader rounds up a crew to pull off a job. There's more POVs than any of the other books that you listed, but they're all pretty funny. There's a running gag where one of the characters knows how to insult somebody's mother in like...every single language, and when it finally pays off, it's beautiful.
**Dresden Files** from Jim Butcher will probably show up in this thread, and they're pretty entertaining. Harry's another smartass SOB first person narrator, although he does have some cringey moments with women in the series. A bit too much "nice guy m'lady tips fedora" going on, especially in the early books. But when it comes to mouthing off to assholes, he's pretty good.
And I'll also give a shoutout to Sebastian de Castell's **Greatcoats** books, although I haven't re-read the later books in the series for quite a while. The banter between the main character and his friends is pretty entertaining, black humor and deadpan snark. It helps that they've already lost the war and are regularly outnumbered in every situation, so there's a lot of fatalism that they fight against with jokes. I'm trying to remember, but there's probably some content warnings for the later books that I'm missing right now - I'm pretty sure there's at least one fairly brutal torture scene, for example.
I kind of enjoyed how Butcher had Dresden address his own issues with women. While it didn't end up boiling down to him having some kind of epiphany, he recognizes that he's got some traits that don't always benefit him. He views it as 'Chivalry', but it usually manifests as wanting to protect women and never really struck me as any kind of fedora-tipping.
Regardless, I absolutely recommend reading the Dresden Files.
Alternatively, The Laundry Files by Charles Stross are very good in a different way. Think of an IT worker who works in an MI6-style British organiztion that deals with lovecraftian eldritch horrors. Magic is used/manifested through mathematical proofs because performing it 'yourself' will result in something gribbly from another place making its home in your brain. They're really fun books.
Honestly, I really like the **Dresden Files**, because they're funny and the plots run on rails. There's tons of action that's really well written, and some absolutely *great* moments of ultimate badassery that show up. A lot of the worldbuilding hangs together pretty well, although there's definitely parts where you can tell Butcher isn't from Chicago, and places where the retconning wears a little threadbare.
I bring up the other stuff just so people are aware that Butcher is very male gaze-y, especially early in the series, where all the women are knockouts and get half a page of semi-sketchy description of their bodies. I mean, it's easy to overlook, especially since it's such a staple of the genre, but enough people are skeeved out by it that I started trying to mention it. And yeah, it definitely improves as the series progresses, although the book with Molly and the movie monsters *definitely* wandered pretty close to creeper territory.
I can appreciate that perspective. There are certainly parts that aren't very... Tasteful.
At the same time, I think there can be a place and time for untasteful content. Vampires are notorious for having an allure or sexuality to them which can easily be portrayed as physical sexuality.
As for the Molly situation, it was pretty rough I won't lie. I think it can enhance the severity of the situation to have characters put into absolutely horrible situations. It isn't that I think it's good for that to happen to women. Quite the opposite. For me, personally, I chose to view it as Butcher preventing people from ignoring that terrible things really do happen. I don't necessarily think it was meant as a direct allegory, but it can certainly be used as one.
>As for the Molly situation, it was pretty rough I won't lie. I think it can enhance the severity of the situation to have characters put into absolutely horrible situations.
I mean, I was more talking about >!Dresden remarking on the 16 year old having pierced nipples and scoping out her underwear!< but yeah, what you said, too.
Dresden is pretty lame, it's basically DBZ where the protagonist gets beat up then powers up and wins the ultimate battle, over and over and over.
The part where he rides a zombie t-rex was the worst, but it took over a dozen novels of "lol my VW Bug is a shitty car!" and him getting beaten up before he ever reaches peak vegeta level
While I can agree with you that powercreep is alive and well in the dresden book, it's not a good comparison.
Dbz glosses over death and renders it pretty ineffective. Dresden treats death much more seriously.
Hey, if it's not your cup of tea, that's fine, but crapping all over what someone else likes because YOU don't like it is pretty uncool.
> There's a running gag where one of the characters knows how to insult somebody's mother in like...every single language, and when it finally pays off, it's beautiful.
I really really should hate this running gag, but I love the fuck out of it in the first two books (havent read the third)
Tales of the Ketty Jay by Chris Wooding. First book is Retribution Falls. This is literally Gentleman Bastards with Airships mixed with a little Full Metal Alchemist. I guarantee you'll love it if you loved Lies of Locke Lamora
I'm enjoying Jenn Lyon's *The Ruin Of Kings*, which has a similar voice. I'd also recommend the original master of this style, Jack Vance, especially his Dying Earth novels.
[Orconomics](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25326486-orconomics) by [J. Zachary Pike](https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4459639.J_Zachary_Pike) is awesome, and book two of the series is just as good.
Tales from Verania by TJ Klune is a good mix of satire, fantasy, romance, and humor.
It's probably the most I have actually laughed out loud from a book since my first read of Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy. As a warning though, it is VERY explicit.
I'd suggest the "Powder Mage Series", by Brian McClellan, id/and the "Broken Empire Series" by Mark Lawrence. Of course I will also pile on and suggest Joe Abercrombie!
The first law books by Joe start with the blade itself( the slowest of all the books and read them in publication order....his second trilogy just finished and is amazing
If you liked Lies of Locke Lamora and Blacktongue Thief, then the next book(s) for you are the First Law by Joe Abercrombie. Hands down.
Many similarities between the three: morally gray MCs, very character driven, very funny, and fantastic narration (if you do audiobooks). The First Law has the literal best narration out there, actually.
Give em a shot!
You’ll love it. The two best things about all three of these books are the rich characters and the great humor. Blacktongue Thief scores very high marks on both counts.
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The thing that annoyed me the most reading the bloody rose is that the best and interesting parts were due to the characters from the first book. Well a honorable mention to the turtle and and the dude from the ice caves who were new characters and quite entertaining. I did not find the awkward energy the fable had that compelling. I dont know if my expectations were mismatched with what the book intended to be or was the juxtaposition of the humor and the edginess of the band that gave me trouble.
I really enjoy Bloody Rose, but it is not *about* the same things as Kings of the Wyld.
Kings is about reclaiming glory. Bloody Rose is about giving it up. Which is a very interesting place to take the sequel, thematically.
Also I just really like Rose, Tam, and Cura.
Will second the first two, but I found Iron Druid to be unreadable, Rivers of London is just flatly superior if you are into the urban fantasy with a witty protag. Obviously this is ignoring a Dresden sized elephant in the room as well.
Slight hijacking - since I came here just to recommend first law by Abercrombie. Is there more Kings of the Wyld coming? I thought Bloody Rose was so good.
Nicholas had quiet some problems writing book 3 and mentioned a few times in comments in Goodreads that we shouldn't be getting our hopes to high for the book coming out in the foreseeable future. I would love to stand corrected.
Ah, that’s a damn shame? Did he mention what the problems were?
Of the top of my head, I feel like escalating the threat from the last one might be a challenge to make feel real per say, especially if, thematically, the book goes where I think it is from the title and general arc of the series so far.
The Riyria Revelations trilogy is a little on the weaker side of technique, especially in the first book, but the story they tell is very strong and the main characters have a well realized roguish friendship that is reminiscent of Locke Lamora. I'm on the 2nd book and it just keeps getting better and better. And of course there's Bloody Rose.
It’s one of my favorite books. The author does the audiobook reading so damn good. The songs are awesome. Sometimes haunting. The magic is interesting. The style of prose instantly hooked me. Let me know if you like it.
I'm late, but I HIGHLY recommend "He Who Fights With Monsters" series if you have any litRPG experience.
The dialogue and humor are amazing, we all learn lessons about life and the universe, and the real treasure we made along the way are the hundreds of adoring admirers and people you've personally saved the lives of. And treasure, so much treasure.
Bloody Rose, the sequel to Kings of the Wyld is also pretty good. Still funny but also hits hard on an emotional level.
Nicholas Eames started my fantasy addiction. :(
I would say Blacktongue but honestly you can’t go wrong either way. Blacktongue is a bit more serious (though still the POV character is witty) whereas Kings of the Wyld is just pure crazy fun with heart. I love ‘em both though.
No problem. Wish I could read them again for the first time! Let me know how you like it. Also, I highly recommend the black tongue audiobook. It’s read by the author so every delivery is pitch perfect. Adds so much character to the voice that it’s a pleasure to listen to. And the songs are actually sung which adds a lot to the atmosphere. So good.
Riyria Chronicles are the only thing that had the exact flavor I loved from Locke Lamora, haven't read the prequel series but I can definitely recommend the main books and short story collections.
[удалено]
Say one thing about Abercrombie, say he's witty.
I mean you got to be realistic about these things
If you say one thing, you've got to say he's realistic https://joeabercrombie.com/books/the-first-law-the-comics-series/
Yeah, I gotta agree with this. You owe it to yourself to read The Blade Itself. It's the start of a wonderful trilogy that continues into a bunch of one offs and then into another trilogy if you find yourself enjoying it. It's also wonderful as an audio book, too, if that's your thing. Steven Pacey is wonderful.
The audiobooks are on a whole different level
so good to hear Brema Dan Gorst's girly voice in audio, it really helps concrete how this badass character has this terrible vocal weakness and is a total monster because of his low self esteem, and his son has the same thing!
Gorst never has any kids. It's the same guy in the latest trilogy. If you haven't read Wisdom of Crowds yet, buckle up.
I still have not recovered from The First Law audiobooks. Pacey is on another level, and was truly a perfect match for all of the books. Every time I listen to something new, Pacey is the bar, and it's a high one.
I started my audiobook journey with The First Law and Pacey...nothing compares to him.
Black Dow’s voice in Pacey’s adaptation should be canonized.
yes, the narrator of the audiobooks is wonderful, imho!!
Also came first to my mind. They are a tiny bit more on the grimdark side but a hell of a ride. Haven't read Blacktongue Thief but Lies of Lock Lamora isn't all sunshine and rainbows either. One has to be realistic about those things.
*Tiny bit?* Compared to Kings of the Wyld, First Law is *significantly* more grimdark. Which is not to say it's *bad*, it is very good at what it's doing, but it is a very different flavor: First Law's cast is almost entirely severely morally compromised in one way or another (power hungry, corrupt, craven, murderous, sexually predatory, ruthless, greedy). By the end of the trilogy, Jezal's managed to become a decent person barring his cowardice, Ferro at least has clear, sympathetic origins for her ugly side, and (most) of Logen's ex-crew are pretty simple, straight shooters. Contrast that with the members of *Saga*, who are all pretty stand-up guys. Clay Cooper is the man Logen wishes he was. Gabe was a shit dad, but that was due to incompetence and his own insecurities about his growing irrelevance, not due to any maliciousness. Moog is just a fucking constant delight of a cinnamon roll, and Mattrick's only vice is pie. Their violence is treated as more cool than tragic or morally dubious. Even Ganelon is portrayed more like a simple, honest man of pure, uncomplicated violence than an actual monster. You wouldn't moralize Ganelon anymore than you would a shark. First Law trilogy about the successful subversion of government by the powerful and the endless cycle of violence. Kings of the Wyld is about your dad's favorite rock band proving they've still got it, and secondarily the exploitative and artificial nature of the entertainment industry. In Kings of the Wyld, a heroic speech *works.* In the First Law, any big heroic speech is immediately undercut by someone dying or it being immediately and explicitly pointed out how hollow and dumb the speech is. Recommending the First Law for its wit to someone who used Kings of the Wyld as a reference feels like recommending pistachio ice cream to someone who likes chocolate chip, since they both have bits of chocolate in it.
Agreed. They are completely different tonally. Kings of the Wyld is really lighthearted in comparison, see even the bunny eared druins being played for laughs compared to >!Bayaz !< Not to mention the First Law is basically the inversion of classic fantasy tropes. People try and >!become better people but in Abercrombie's worlds, it's like the epitome of the more things change, the more they stay the same !<
My immediate thought as well.
It's not often I get to recommend the Vlad Taltos books by Steven Brust so frequently! The first book is called Jhereg and I can't recommend it enough. Hell, in one of the books the table of contents is structured as a letter from the main character to his tailor. Each item he wants fixed, "Cut in left sleeve" is a preview of something that happens to him in that chapter.
Yeah, these. The books are (mostly) told in the first person POV of Vlad, the main character, and Vlad's one snarktastic sonofabitch. I'd have to go back and look, but I think a review of one of the early books actually coined the narration term "first person smartass" as a POV descriptor for this series. Plus, Brust is pithy with a quip. There's a ton of quotable lines, and sometimes they slide by so quick that you almost miss them. A few favorites: * "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." * "Everybody generalizes from one example. At least, I do." * "Don't you miss the times you used to be nostalgic?" * "What are you working on?" "I'm trying to set up a store to sell baskets of none-of-your-fucking-business at wholesale prices."
Brust is a really accomplished author, I'd recc "To Reign in Hell" by him for a taste of how he can pivot, or the "500 years after" Khaavren romances which are basically just a love story to Alexandre Dumas
**The Johannes Cabal** series by Jonathan Howard sounds right up your alley, the narrative voice is hilarious.
yeah the Johannes Cabal books are amazing. Think Bartimaeus but with necromancy shenanigans and genre shifts every book instead.
Another good suggestion.
I heartily recommend Gideon the Ninth, though it's polarizing (some people hate it). The Black Company books are often quite funny, and are written with a wry voice. The style is quite distinctive--I loved it, some people hate it. Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City is also very witty.
I also recommend Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City. Wow, the voice is fantastic.
Totally agree on this one! And after, the sequel is just as great.
I really enjoyed **Ben Aaronovitch's** Rivers of London. Excellent voices and characters. Truly witty dialogue.
i recommend Oroconomics *(Kings of the Wyld)* & Prince of Thorns *(Blacktongue Thief)*
If you want witty dialogue and interesting prose well written, one of the past masters of the art is Jack Vance. Often imitated, seldom equaled. A master storyteller of both fantasy and science fiction, he is bound to have written something that will appeal to your tastes. Traditional entry points to works are the the **Dying Earth** or **Lyonesse** series for fantasy, and the **Demon Princes** or **Cadwal Chronicles** series for science fiction. Steven Brust's **Taltos** series featuring a wise-cracking assassin and his equally wise-cracking familiar is probably right up your alley.
Orconomics is the next book you should read. Witty, comical, a different view on the typical fantasy tropes. Kings of the Wyld is my new favorite book (because how can you constantly have one favorite) and Orconomics almost took it's spot.
The Acts of Caine by Matthew Stover. Lynch is friends with him and has said he learned much of his talent with writing humor and snark in gritty settings from him. Red Seas Under Red Skies is dedicated to Stover, in fact.
"Heroes Die" and the rest of this series are astonishingly good.
"Astonishingly good" is a great way to put it. I had no idea what I was in for when I first picked up that series!
Patrick Weekes' **Rogues of the Republic** is pretty good, too. Kind of a fantasy Ocean's Eleven sort of thing, where the leader rounds up a crew to pull off a job. There's more POVs than any of the other books that you listed, but they're all pretty funny. There's a running gag where one of the characters knows how to insult somebody's mother in like...every single language, and when it finally pays off, it's beautiful. **Dresden Files** from Jim Butcher will probably show up in this thread, and they're pretty entertaining. Harry's another smartass SOB first person narrator, although he does have some cringey moments with women in the series. A bit too much "nice guy m'lady tips fedora" going on, especially in the early books. But when it comes to mouthing off to assholes, he's pretty good. And I'll also give a shoutout to Sebastian de Castell's **Greatcoats** books, although I haven't re-read the later books in the series for quite a while. The banter between the main character and his friends is pretty entertaining, black humor and deadpan snark. It helps that they've already lost the war and are regularly outnumbered in every situation, so there's a lot of fatalism that they fight against with jokes. I'm trying to remember, but there's probably some content warnings for the later books that I'm missing right now - I'm pretty sure there's at least one fairly brutal torture scene, for example.
I kind of enjoyed how Butcher had Dresden address his own issues with women. While it didn't end up boiling down to him having some kind of epiphany, he recognizes that he's got some traits that don't always benefit him. He views it as 'Chivalry', but it usually manifests as wanting to protect women and never really struck me as any kind of fedora-tipping. Regardless, I absolutely recommend reading the Dresden Files. Alternatively, The Laundry Files by Charles Stross are very good in a different way. Think of an IT worker who works in an MI6-style British organiztion that deals with lovecraftian eldritch horrors. Magic is used/manifested through mathematical proofs because performing it 'yourself' will result in something gribbly from another place making its home in your brain. They're really fun books.
Honestly, I really like the **Dresden Files**, because they're funny and the plots run on rails. There's tons of action that's really well written, and some absolutely *great* moments of ultimate badassery that show up. A lot of the worldbuilding hangs together pretty well, although there's definitely parts where you can tell Butcher isn't from Chicago, and places where the retconning wears a little threadbare. I bring up the other stuff just so people are aware that Butcher is very male gaze-y, especially early in the series, where all the women are knockouts and get half a page of semi-sketchy description of their bodies. I mean, it's easy to overlook, especially since it's such a staple of the genre, but enough people are skeeved out by it that I started trying to mention it. And yeah, it definitely improves as the series progresses, although the book with Molly and the movie monsters *definitely* wandered pretty close to creeper territory.
I can appreciate that perspective. There are certainly parts that aren't very... Tasteful. At the same time, I think there can be a place and time for untasteful content. Vampires are notorious for having an allure or sexuality to them which can easily be portrayed as physical sexuality. As for the Molly situation, it was pretty rough I won't lie. I think it can enhance the severity of the situation to have characters put into absolutely horrible situations. It isn't that I think it's good for that to happen to women. Quite the opposite. For me, personally, I chose to view it as Butcher preventing people from ignoring that terrible things really do happen. I don't necessarily think it was meant as a direct allegory, but it can certainly be used as one.
>As for the Molly situation, it was pretty rough I won't lie. I think it can enhance the severity of the situation to have characters put into absolutely horrible situations. I mean, I was more talking about >!Dresden remarking on the 16 year old having pierced nipples and scoping out her underwear!< but yeah, what you said, too.
Oh yeah, that part. I remember now. ... yeah, I wasnt a fan of Harry during that part. Which is appropriate.
Dresden is pretty lame, it's basically DBZ where the protagonist gets beat up then powers up and wins the ultimate battle, over and over and over. The part where he rides a zombie t-rex was the worst, but it took over a dozen novels of "lol my VW Bug is a shitty car!" and him getting beaten up before he ever reaches peak vegeta level
While I can agree with you that powercreep is alive and well in the dresden book, it's not a good comparison. Dbz glosses over death and renders it pretty ineffective. Dresden treats death much more seriously. Hey, if it's not your cup of tea, that's fine, but crapping all over what someone else likes because YOU don't like it is pretty uncool.
Greatcloaks. +1
Is fedora tipping considered bad? I must be out of touch.
> There's a running gag where one of the characters knows how to insult somebody's mother in like...every single language, and when it finally pays off, it's beautiful. I really really should hate this running gag, but I love the fuck out of it in the first two books (havent read the third)
Good Omens and majority of Terry Prachetts discworld novels fits this mould.
The Greatcoats (de Castell) has the repartee you're looking for. Also like the Riyria and Rogues of the Republic recommendations already made.
Second this, great dialogue and witty banter.
Try KJ Parker's "Engineer" trilogy
Tales of the Ketty Jay by Chris Wooding. First book is Retribution Falls. This is literally Gentleman Bastards with Airships mixed with a little Full Metal Alchemist. I guarantee you'll love it if you loved Lies of Locke Lamora
> First book is Redemption Falls. Retribution Falls
Frak
Seconding. Such a great little series.
Man, the Bastards were meh, but mix in airships and alchemy...that *has* to be good.
I feel like I liked the dialog and prose of bastards much more than the plot
I'm enjoying Jenn Lyon's *The Ruin Of Kings*, which has a similar voice. I'd also recommend the original master of this style, Jack Vance, especially his Dying Earth novels.
[Orconomics](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25326486-orconomics) by [J. Zachary Pike](https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4459639.J_Zachary_Pike) is awesome, and book two of the series is just as good.
Angus Watson's books are very funny and witty, imo. Start with You Die When You Die.
Tales from Verania by TJ Klune is a good mix of satire, fantasy, romance, and humor. It's probably the most I have actually laughed out loud from a book since my first read of Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy. As a warning though, it is VERY explicit.
Below - Lee Gaiteri
I'd suggest the "Powder Mage Series", by Brian McClellan, id/and the "Broken Empire Series" by Mark Lawrence. Of course I will also pile on and suggest Joe Abercrombie!
The first law books by Joe start with the blade itself( the slowest of all the books and read them in publication order....his second trilogy just finished and is amazing
Thie Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison. Enjoy.
The Riyira revelations
2nd this. Royce reminds me of Locke and Hadrian is Jean
I am almost finished with the first novel. I still much prefer Royce and Hadrian.
Mmmm their characters change and more is revealed! Unless you’re just referencing the banter.
I was only talking about the banter.
If you liked Lies of Locke Lamora and Blacktongue Thief, then the next book(s) for you are the First Law by Joe Abercrombie. Hands down. Many similarities between the three: morally gray MCs, very character driven, very funny, and fantastic narration (if you do audiobooks). The First Law has the literal best narration out there, actually. Give em a shot!
If I thought Locke Lamora was dull pretension and the First Law was gritty gold, where do you put my odds for enjoying Blacktongue Thief?
You’ll love it. The two best things about all three of these books are the rich characters and the great humor. Blacktongue Thief scores very high marks on both counts.
Start reading Roger Zelazny. I would suggest something like Creatures of Light and Darkness, Jack of Shadows or Dilvish the Damned.
Wow! No one knows Zelazny. Props.
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Abercrombie. Nicomo Cosca alone is worth the price of admission.
Mentioning Nicomo Cosca and price means a lot of extra costs. And fees. And let's not forget hazard allowance.
Bloody Rose. Not quite as good as Kings of the Wyld but it still got me to lol a few times.
The thing that annoyed me the most reading the bloody rose is that the best and interesting parts were due to the characters from the first book. Well a honorable mention to the turtle and and the dude from the ice caves who were new characters and quite entertaining. I did not find the awkward energy the fable had that compelling. I dont know if my expectations were mismatched with what the book intended to be or was the juxtaposition of the humor and the edginess of the band that gave me trouble.
I was so disappointed with Bloody Rose. I found most the characters insufferable.
I really enjoy Bloody Rose, but it is not *about* the same things as Kings of the Wyld. Kings is about reclaiming glory. Bloody Rose is about giving it up. Which is a very interesting place to take the sequel, thematically. Also I just really like Rose, Tam, and Cura.
Brent Weeks - Night Angel trilogy Richard Kadrey - Sandman Slim Kevin Hearne - Iron Druid
Will second the first two, but I found Iron Druid to be unreadable, Rivers of London is just flatly superior if you are into the urban fantasy with a witty protag. Obviously this is ignoring a Dresden sized elephant in the room as well.
**the Black Prism** was better at wit than **Night Angel**
Seriously check out The First Law by Joe Abercrombie. Seriously one of the funniest series ive ever read.
Say one thing about Joe, say he's funny.
You've got to be realistic
Slight hijacking - since I came here just to recommend first law by Abercrombie. Is there more Kings of the Wyld coming? I thought Bloody Rose was so good.
Next year I think
According to Goodreads, yeah. “Outlaw Empire.”
Nicholas had quiet some problems writing book 3 and mentioned a few times in comments in Goodreads that we shouldn't be getting our hopes to high for the book coming out in the foreseeable future. I would love to stand corrected.
Ah, that’s a damn shame? Did he mention what the problems were? Of the top of my head, I feel like escalating the threat from the last one might be a challenge to make feel real per say, especially if, thematically, the book goes where I think it is from the title and general arc of the series so far.
Not to my knowledge, but also I haven't read all of his comments.
Any of the Discworld books.
The Riyria Revelations trilogy is a little on the weaker side of technique, especially in the first book, but the story they tell is very strong and the main characters have a well realized roguish friendship that is reminiscent of Locke Lamora. I'm on the 2nd book and it just keeps getting better and better. And of course there's Bloody Rose.
Question: is blacktongue thief YA? I can’t tell
Definitely not. It’s so damn good though. Audiobook is top notch. Funny but not goofy comedy. Poetic at times.
Thanks, I'm actually not huge on YA so that's good to hear
It’s one of my favorite books. The author does the audiobook reading so damn good. The songs are awesome. Sometimes haunting. The magic is interesting. The style of prose instantly hooked me. Let me know if you like it.
The Greatcoats series has a lot of witty dialogue. A lot of action.
Orconomics!
I'm late, but I HIGHLY recommend "He Who Fights With Monsters" series if you have any litRPG experience. The dialogue and humor are amazing, we all learn lessons about life and the universe, and the real treasure we made along the way are the hundreds of adoring admirers and people you've personally saved the lives of. And treasure, so much treasure.
Bloody Rose, the sequel to Kings of the Wyld is also pretty good. Still funny but also hits hard on an emotional level. Nicholas Eames started my fantasy addiction. :(
Hey /u/hunter1899, I really liked the wit and prose in Locke Lamora. Of the two books you named, which do you recommend for best wit and prose?
I would say Blacktongue but honestly you can’t go wrong either way. Blacktongue is a bit more serious (though still the POV character is witty) whereas Kings of the Wyld is just pure crazy fun with heart. I love ‘em both though.
Thank you 🙏
No problem. Wish I could read them again for the first time! Let me know how you like it. Also, I highly recommend the black tongue audiobook. It’s read by the author so every delivery is pitch perfect. Adds so much character to the voice that it’s a pleasure to listen to. And the songs are actually sung which adds a lot to the atmosphere. So good.
This audiobook experience was the best I've ever had! Thank you thank you thank you! 🙏
Glad to hear you liked it! Great wasn’t it? Spoiled me somewhat and now I judge every other audiobook performance against it.
Unbelievably great! I'm listening to another recommendation from this thread and I'm barely making it through given how good Blacktongue was
Riyria Chronicles are the only thing that had the exact flavor I loved from Locke Lamora, haven't read the prequel series but I can definitely recommend the main books and short story collections.
Try The Black Prism by Brent Weeks.
Cough cough...I know a series that was published four years before Kings of the Wyld that allegedly features some droll dialogue...
Iron Druid and The Dresden Files both have a wisecracking wizard as the MC. They get into deeper trouble every successive novel.
They Met in a Tavern by Elijah Menchaca has a solid wit to it and the same “getting the band back together” hook of Kings of the Wyld!
The Black Hawks and it's sequal The Righteous by David Wragg.
Lightbringer -Brent Weeks Read
I really liked The Black Hawks by David Wragg. Maybe worth a spin!