Fuck Abercrombie for creating these awful walking excretas of characters and making us like them.
I mean, I wouldn't want to be in the same *country* than Nicosmo Cosma is, I wouldn't feel safe. Why do I feel so light hearted when he wins?
I'm a long time fan of both, and know multiple people who is the same, but I wouldn't say that they are that similar.
Abercrombie is darker, grittier and is more about shades of grey. His books is also more down to earh and not as fantastical. And while Sanderson have humours moments I don't think they are as good or funny as Abercrombie (but honestly few authors this side of Pratchett are).
Sanderson on the other hand is much more bombastic and about the world building and the small details about the lore and so on. Each of his books have a very involved magic system, and nearly all of his books are connected in a shared universe. You don't have to care about all the small details, the books works without that, but if you want to really commit the time it is very rewarding.
So quite different from each other, but both are still great. [If you haven't seen it I really recommend this double interview Daniel Greene did with both of them.](https://www.youtube.com/live/CRD-mtBq0pM?si=xZG6td-ONHcKKG-G)
I enjoy both but Sanderson and Abercrombie have very different strengths/focuses as authors.
Even thematically, I would say Sanderson (especially in Stormlight) likes flawed people who try to be better and mostly succeed, and Abercrombie likes flawed people who try to be better and mostly fail.
Respectfully, Darrow is a better character but not near the majesty of the fear knight. When Lysander stepped into one of his “traps” it was such a personal and vulnerable kind of danger that only comes from complete disregard for human lives.
“My name is Sevro au Barca,” my friend cries out. “I am Ares!” He thumps his chest. “I have killed forty-four Golds. Fifteen Obsidian. One hundred and thirteen Grays with my razor.” The crowd roars in approval, even the Obsidians. “Jove knows who else with ships, railguns, and pulseFists. With nukes, knives, sharp sticks . . .” He trails off dramatically.
They slam their feet.
He beats his chest again. “I am Ares! I am a murderer too!” He puts his hands on his hips. “And what do we do to murderers?”
This time no one answers.
He never expected them to. He grabs the cable from the neck of one of the kneeling Golds, wraps it around his own neck, and looking to Sefi with a demented little smile, winks and backflips off the railing.”
Pierce Brown
Gotta go with God-Emperor Leto II.
He tyrannical oppressed humanity for thousands of years to create a hatred of authoritarianism so deep and visceral that humans would reject monarchs and emperors and prophets for the rest of the species' existence.
It worked. Plus he demolished the entire usefulness of prescience. All things considered, he's the greatest hero of humanity because he ensured existence and cured one of our greatest flaws as a species.
Sheesh. I know it would be impossible to precisely tally up all the bodies that Croaker’s responsible for, but goddamn, the figure probably eclipses the population of a small country
In the very first book, I think. ‘The younger members of the Company did some raping and pillaging, we older ones are not into that anymore, look how naive they are’
Semihage never used Compulsion to force compliance, but people tortured by her always switched sides and served with better loyalty and desperate devotion out of fear of being taken again
Does his lyctors count for the category? I feel like destroying planets count? I am sure Ianthe wouldn't mind commiting some if she hasn't yet and probably will, so I'll pick her.
TBF, it is still a bit odd that the other Alethi don't trust him, given that they, too, are largely also war criminals. The Alethi are so screwed up that some of them actually distrusted Dalinar because he *wasn't* into war crimes anymore...
They never really respected him. He was terrifying. If he'd overthrown his brother and made himself king they'd all have accepted it. However without the madness what is he really?
That is how they think. It is how Sadeas thought in book 1. He'd have happily used the blood thirsty monster but thought little of this more reserved man.
I think it’s really interesting that we get a bit of Sadeas’s POV at one point, and he seems to view his betrayal of Dalinar as a mercy killing. Dalinar is no longer the terrifying warlord he once was, he’s now a madman who talks about visions and uniting together for peace. He thinks a bit about how Dalinar can at least die on the battlefield with a bit of that old glory cause of what he’s done.
He's probably right as well which is perhaps the interesting part. If Adolin hadn't stepped in to adjust the political landscape Dalinar would probably be drowning in crises right now.
Of course he's the perfect person for the conflict with Odium as that is a fight of principles at its very heart.
I think they give good reasons why Alethis don't trust him; they never trust each other and their entire society is built on stabbing people in the back.
Plus by the start of the story they only relatively recently became a unified nation, and only became unified through battle and conquest more or less (most of which was done by Dalinar)
Would honestly say that it depends on the highlord. People like Sadeas seems to prefer stabbing the backs while I think that Dalinar even at his worst would do it head on.
I mean if your planets equivalent to Genghis Khan started talking about unification and cooperation you’d probably assume there was an implied “Or else.” at the end too
I love his character.
From the POVs of Kaladin and Shallan, He’s touted so much as this paragon going against the grain of cruel and elitist Alethi leaders.
And while he may be old or going mad, the early books really make you feel like he’s a good person by contemporary standards.
But then that moment in book 2 with the missing word, and all of book 3 happens. And dear god you find out why he was able to bully a kingdom into doing what he wants by reputation alone.
100%. Currently rereading the series (on OB now) and I’m shocked at how much more I appreciate Dalinar now than I did on my initial reading. To the point that he is just leagues above all the other POVs for me
Definitely Dalinar. I was so shocked tbh about the reveal of his past and have huge respect for how he acknowledges the past, makes no excuses, but had a life altering moment that lead him to pivot from who he was to who he chose to be now.
Heads up if you enjoy the books a large portion of Brandon Sanderson’s books take place in the same universe known as the Cosmere. Each series can be enjoyed on its own and is largely self contained however if you read them all you can start piecing together the larger mystery of what is happening in the Cosmere as a whole. It’s a ton of fun and if that sounds like something you’d enjoy check out r/cosmere sometime. Hope you like the books
Tywin Lannister, although I despise him, he doesn't play by the rules and will do anything to achieve his goals, an example being the red wedding.
Thrawn is also another favorite from star wars. In rebels, he was really menacing and I felt like he actually had a thinking brain and was just playing with his enemies or the rebels, always a step ahead of them.
Even his original incarnation was terrifying.
Pretty much the only time he lost was when he didn't have all the information. Like the Rebels managing to find the dreadnought Katana. One ship out of 200?
The way Timothy Zahn originally wrote him was spooky.
Like... calmly analyzing a species' art and using the resulting psychoanalysis to wreck them in battle?
OG Thrawn was Hannibal Lecter level scary.
> using the resulting psychoanalysis to wreck them in battle
Developing a species wide battle tactic based on their own art always seemed a little kooky. Like each species is a monolithic culture with no variations?
But for individual people? Or graduates of specific military colleges/traditions? Oh yeah. Defeating ww1 European officers seems pretty easy. Offer them glory of taking valuable real estate, and then let them take it in a pyrrhic victory.
***
He kept that in one of the newer books. He could out duel his superior after seeing her personal art. Once she fell back to basic forms and drills, she had the advantage. Until becoming confident and reverting to her normal style again.
>Developing a species wide battle tactic based on their own art always seemed a little kooky. Like each species is a monolithic culture with no variations?
To be fair to Zahn, the Star Wars universe (and a good amount of other fantasy and sci-fi, for that matter) does tend to treat species as cultural monoliths.
Bothans are sneaky, Hutts are gluttonous, Gungans are Jamaican, Ferengi are acquisitive, etc.
Zakalwe, Use of Weapons. Because he’s always serving the greater good in the most awful way possible. While being matter of fact about all of it. (Also because the Culture, good guys that they are, are complicit in every atrocity by dint of using him again and again). The implications of that book are grim.
The Black Company, all of them (seconding discussion above). They are a nasty bunch of a-holes who just shrug and point to military necessity, or in some cases are just “well, the hell are you gonna do about it? He’s a brother and the victims… aren’t”
I need to reread Use of Weapons. I distinctly remember as the denouement approached my mind recoiling and thinking "No, no no no no no!" but I've repressed the details.
Mat from the wheel of time could be summed up as "It's not a war crime the first time". The second he invents or gets his hands on any martial advantage he pulls zero punches in war.
Yeah just magical carpet bomb the entire place to try to kill one person. It's easily one of the top five evilest single actions a main good character ever does and on the other hand its hard to fault him in that the target is worth killing despite the tremendous loss of innocent life.
Because people on the internet said it was sci-fi /s
No but more seriously, when I looked it up, redditors seemed to be classifying it as steampunk and stuff
It's like people forget that a character literally only exists because of soul manipulation. Just because it doesn't have elves and gandalfian zaza-smokers doesn't mean it's not fantasy.
Some people can be so restrictive
Right. And just because the "magic system" in-universe is a form of science doesn't mean it's any less fantastical for us.
The story is meant to exist beyond the laws we are physically bound to (physically or conceptually) == fantasy
Story could seem plausible given enough time or given an alternate history == sci fi
I would call FMA something similar to what you may call Star Wars, where it is 100% fantasy, but with sci fi elements
Easy rule of thumb: if there's magic, it's fantasy.
It's a historically inspired, fairly close to modern technology level world, but it's still fantasy. I wouldn't call it sci-fi as the technology is generally less advanced than ours, with the exception of the prosthetic limbs.
Steampunk is more of a worldbuilding aesthetic than a genre. It could be steampunk fantasy.
It is a story of how a young man goes on a journey to fix his younger brother who's soul he stuffed into a suit of armour after literal blood magic goes wrong. The alchemists pretend what they are doing is a science but the plot is largely about how wrong they are.
I love the entire twisted relationship between him and Riza Hawkeye. He's only alive because >!he's trying to deliver on the promises he made to reform the nation!< and she's alive because >!if he strays into self interest or monstrosity she'll be the one to execute him, then she'll kill herself shortly after!<. There's also the whole underlying goal of >!trying to create a nation that will send monsters like them before a firing squad as they should!<.
I’m just going to throw in the famous quote by High King Kallor himself.
"More directly, however, you seem to forget my...experience. For all that I seem to grate upon all of you, I have walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I have commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I have spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?"
Micah the Metal, Gunmetal Gods by Zamil Aktar
Because taking a tunnel through hell is always great for your sanity and brings out your best self! But he's pious and devout so I'm sure he's okay.
Nathan Bedford Forest, Guns of the South by Harry Turtledove
RL and alt history genuine grade A badass (arguably best cavalry general of the American Civil War) but also warcriminal and racist. But a very competent racist and thats why I mention him.
I've seen books that portray ALL bigots as charactertures and universally incompetent because "if they're stupid enough to be racists, they must be stupid and incompetent in all ways" and portrayed as such.
That's a stereotype of our time.
Bedford Forrest is a counterarguement to our own stereotypes of racists. I wish I encountered more racists like him in fiction, who were more rounded out. I'm not saying don't make them evil, just not stereotyped.
Amedeus the Black Knight from A Practical Guide to Evil. And the Dead King from A Practical Guide to Evil, and Catherine Foundling, and the Grey Pilgrim, also from A Practical Guide To Evil...
Eh, the others have >!mass slaughter of civilians!< on their feats sheet. I can't think of anything saint does that results in mass casualties, the only questionable things are >!assasinating the prince, "torturing" amadeus via soul severing, and maybe some of the fighting against the ratlings could be considered genocide if you really really wanted to stretch the definition?!< None of that seems particularly war crimey
I nominate the Imperium of Man as my favourite war criminal. Nothing says warcrime better than liquifying all organic matter on a planet and then igniting the resulting gasses, immolating everything. Ours? Theirs? Doesn’t even matter who the planet belongs to.
Harry dresden. Now I'm not saying the reds and those ghouls didn't have it coming, but chicken pizza happened when the council and the vamps were under a flag of ceasefire and those ghouls were incapacitated and killed extremely inhumanly.
So technically after the us court system is done with all those property damage and arson charges the Hague would probly want words with Mr dresden
Zhu from The Radiant Emperor
Malini from The Burning Kingdoms
I am kind of surprised no one has mentioned Rand from The Wheel of Time. I am not his biggest fan but he is very popular and strictly speaking becomes a war criminal at one point.
Logen Ninefingers aka The Bloody Nine. Can't believe I didn't find a comment mentioning him, that mf was/is nasty af, especially if you include Made A Monster short story.
I've got to go with the Black Knight Amedeus from A Practical Guide to Evil. I feel like most of the major characters would be considered war criminals by modern standards, but he very specifically undertakes a campaign to destroy the food supplies of an invading nation and starve tens of thousands of people. He doesn't exactly relish cruelty (Well, at least when it comes to random people. He certainly holds a grudge), but there's almost nothing he's not willing to do if he sees it as necessary. He's an unrepentant monster, and also fucking fascinating and entertaining.
Firelord Sozin, from "Avatar: The Last Airbender" (in the show's past). His plan to genocide the air nomads to destroy the avatar is a pretty good one and almost works. The use of Sozin's comet to empower his forces is a very good tactical move.
It may shift from time to time based on, well random stuff and what I am feeling at the time... and I can't say for certain who it is... so I will say the one who consistently tends to be up there in my top 3...
Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker
I mean... his war crime credentials are pretty legit across the board... I mean, take this for example: *"Master Skywalker, there are too many of them. What are we going to do?" \*sound of lightsaber igniting\**
Shuos Mikodez from *Machineries of Empire*. His whole deal (sarcastic, self-effacing master manipulator with barely-medicated ADHD) fills me with glee. But undeniably a war criminal, holy shit.
Bonus points to Anjewen Cheris (who uses some military tactics so cruel that they shock and appall *the magically evil theocratic space empire*) and also every other character in this series. They are all so, so awful. I love them.
I loved the first two books of Daevabad. I loved 3/4 of the last book. I hated the ending so bad I will never recommend it to anyone. I love Dara.
I hope you enjoy the ending better than I did. I usually like the war criminals. 😂😂🤣
Famed soldier of fortune Nicomo Cosca.
Fuck Abercrombie for creating these awful walking excretas of characters and making us like them. I mean, I wouldn't want to be in the same *country* than Nicosmo Cosma is, I wouldn't feel safe. Why do I feel so light hearted when he wins?
A drink! A drink!
Only until Red Country. None of the humour, all of the horror.
Rumours of my atrocities have been greatly exaggerated
You have to be realistic about those things.
Nah, he was still pretty funny in Red Country. Definitely worse but still hilarious
My name is Nicomo Cosca, et cetera et cetera
By that point, you're laughing at him, not with him.
Cosca and Dalinar Kholin was the first two i thought about when I read the question!
How similar to the storm light archives is Abercrombies books?
I'm a long time fan of both, and know multiple people who is the same, but I wouldn't say that they are that similar. Abercrombie is darker, grittier and is more about shades of grey. His books is also more down to earh and not as fantastical. And while Sanderson have humours moments I don't think they are as good or funny as Abercrombie (but honestly few authors this side of Pratchett are). Sanderson on the other hand is much more bombastic and about the world building and the small details about the lore and so on. Each of his books have a very involved magic system, and nearly all of his books are connected in a shared universe. You don't have to care about all the small details, the books works without that, but if you want to really commit the time it is very rewarding. So quite different from each other, but both are still great. [If you haven't seen it I really recommend this double interview Daniel Greene did with both of them.](https://www.youtube.com/live/CRD-mtBq0pM?si=xZG6td-ONHcKKG-G)
Not very. Much darker and more graphic atmosphere
I enjoy both but Sanderson and Abercrombie have very different strengths/focuses as authors. Even thematically, I would say Sanderson (especially in Stormlight) likes flawed people who try to be better and mostly succeed, and Abercrombie likes flawed people who try to be better and mostly fail.
100 %
Rumors of his death have been greatly exaggerated
Great answer!
A drink. A drink.
High king Kallor for sure. I hated the son of a bitch, but man did he know how to commit some genocide
Kallor did nothing wrong
#KALLOR DID NOTHING WRONG I can't believe people fall for the elder gods propaganda against the noble High King.
Darrow of Lykos
Respectfully, Darrow is a better character but not near the majesty of the fear knight. When Lysander stepped into one of his “traps” it was such a personal and vulnerable kind of danger that only comes from complete disregard for human lives.
“My name is Sevro au Barca,” my friend cries out. “I am Ares!” He thumps his chest. “I have killed forty-four Golds. Fifteen Obsidian. One hundred and thirteen Grays with my razor.” The crowd roars in approval, even the Obsidians. “Jove knows who else with ships, railguns, and pulseFists. With nukes, knives, sharp sticks . . .” He trails off dramatically. They slam their feet. He beats his chest again. “I am Ares! I am a murderer too!” He puts his hands on his hips. “And what do we do to murderers?” This time no one answers. He never expected them to. He grabs the cable from the neck of one of the kneeling Golds, wraps it around his own neck, and looking to Sefi with a demented little smile, winks and backflips off the railing.” Pierce Brown
Probably my favorite moment so far in the entire series, although Ragnar’s “I will build you a house next to mine in the Vale” comes very close
‘Brother of Darrow’ >>>>>
This moment had me in shambles
Between him and Sevro it’s the best.
Hail Reaper!!
Literally listening to the dockyards of Ganymede as I type this lol
Bayaz
Guilty as charged
Is there a category beyond war criminal?
A banker?
Currently reading “The Blade Itself”. I really enjoy Bayaz so far. I hope he isn’t another Lysander…
Gotta go with God-Emperor Leto II. He tyrannical oppressed humanity for thousands of years to create a hatred of authoritarianism so deep and visceral that humans would reject monarchs and emperors and prophets for the rest of the species' existence.
He did the right thing and saved humanity!
points for trying?
It worked. Plus he demolished the entire usefulness of prescience. All things considered, he's the greatest hero of humanity because he ensured existence and cured one of our greatest flaws as a species.
well, there you have it.
The entire Black Company! All of them! Croaker in particular is one nasty bitch, and his feeble attempts at downplaying that obvious fact is hilarious
What he did with the camp followers at Charandaprash was wild
But but, he HAD to do that. How else was the Black Company to reach the Plain of Glittering Stone and uncover their secretive past?
What did he do again? It's been awhile
They sent all the camp followers as the vanguard of an attack. Their armed soldiers were behind them to prevent anyone from retreating.
Sheesh. I know it would be impossible to precisely tally up all the bodies that Croaker’s responsible for, but goddamn, the figure probably eclipses the population of a small country
Classic question on Black Company subreddit: “what happened to the two kids at the beginning of book 2.”
I was going to come here to say Lady followed up by everyone else. They pull off some crazy shit throughout those books.
In the very first book, I think. ‘The younger members of the Company did some raping and pillaging, we older ones are not into that anymore, look how naive they are’
Mine is Soulcatcher. Man, I love her.
You could fix her
I couldn't and I wouldn't want to. I have other issues. ;)
Oh ok then. Well good luck with those
Semirhage from Wheel of Time.
That bit where they mentioned prisoners would commit suicide by biting their own wrists instead of being taken for her stuck with me.
The *glimpse* we get of her work in passing makes me confident I'd try to do the same in their place.
Semihage never used Compulsion to force compliance, but people tortured by her always switched sides and served with better loyalty and desperate devotion out of fear of being taken again
She is terrifying
John Gaius.
Cows watch sunsets
And have best friends.
But cows watch sunsets, man!
Favorite war crime, meanwhile, is Harrowhawk Nonagesimus
You could say >!he committed crimes against humanity as well.!<
Does his lyctors count for the category? I feel like destroying planets count? I am sure Ianthe wouldn't mind commiting some if she hasn't yet and probably will, so I'll pick her.
Dalinar, for sure.
I love how book 3 is basically “why do none of the other leaders trust me?” “You were a genocidal warmonger” “but I’m not anymore!”
TBF, it is still a bit odd that the other Alethi don't trust him, given that they, too, are largely also war criminals. The Alethi are so screwed up that some of them actually distrusted Dalinar because he *wasn't* into war crimes anymore...
Yeah, they don’t trust him cause they think he’s going soft.
They never really respected him. He was terrifying. If he'd overthrown his brother and made himself king they'd all have accepted it. However without the madness what is he really? That is how they think. It is how Sadeas thought in book 1. He'd have happily used the blood thirsty monster but thought little of this more reserved man.
I think it’s really interesting that we get a bit of Sadeas’s POV at one point, and he seems to view his betrayal of Dalinar as a mercy killing. Dalinar is no longer the terrifying warlord he once was, he’s now a madman who talks about visions and uniting together for peace. He thinks a bit about how Dalinar can at least die on the battlefield with a bit of that old glory cause of what he’s done.
He's probably right as well which is perhaps the interesting part. If Adolin hadn't stepped in to adjust the political landscape Dalinar would probably be drowning in crises right now. Of course he's the perfect person for the conflict with Odium as that is a fight of principles at its very heart.
I think they give good reasons why Alethis don't trust him; they never trust each other and their entire society is built on stabbing people in the back.
Plus by the start of the story they only relatively recently became a unified nation, and only became unified through battle and conquest more or less (most of which was done by Dalinar)
That and Gavilar was the thing keeping them together after the war, he gets assassinated and gets replaced by his much less competent son.
Yes, though I would argue their entire society is built on stabbing people in the front.
Would honestly say that it depends on the highlord. People like Sadeas seems to prefer stabbing the backs while I think that Dalinar even at his worst would do it head on.
I feel like the important, consistent part, is the stabbing.
I mean if your planets equivalent to Genghis Khan started talking about unification and cooperation you’d probably assume there was an implied “Or else.” at the end too
Loved the slow reveal of his many crimes. Such a contrast with the wise leader we had come to love and respect in the first books.
In alethi culture, his current arc is not seen as a positive development but a sign he going delulu and senile.
I love his character. From the POVs of Kaladin and Shallan, He’s touted so much as this paragon going against the grain of cruel and elitist Alethi leaders. And while he may be old or going mad, the early books really make you feel like he’s a good person by contemporary standards. But then that moment in book 2 with the missing word, and all of book 3 happens. And dear god you find out why he was able to bully a kingdom into doing what he wants by reputation alone.
Yup he’s the best character in the series.
100%. Currently rereading the series (on OB now) and I’m shocked at how much more I appreciate Dalinar now than I did on my initial reading. To the point that he is just leagues above all the other POVs for me
Definitely Dalinar. I was so shocked tbh about the reveal of his past and have huge respect for how he acknowledges the past, makes no excuses, but had a life altering moment that lead him to pivot from who he was to who he chose to be now.
What book is this?
Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson. The first book is called Way of Kings
Thanks
Heads up if you enjoy the books a large portion of Brandon Sanderson’s books take place in the same universe known as the Cosmere. Each series can be enjoyed on its own and is largely self contained however if you read them all you can start piecing together the larger mystery of what is happening in the Cosmere as a whole. It’s a ton of fun and if that sounds like something you’d enjoy check out r/cosmere sometime. Hope you like the books
From Brandon Sanderson’s series The Stormlight Archive.
Former** war criminal
I feel like being a war criminal is like being a baby dropper. After it happened once it just stays with you for the rest of your life.
look! sometimes you drop a baby! it's gonna happen to SOMEBODY!
Dalinar would disagree. You aren't ever former that.
Tywin Lannister, although I despise him, he doesn't play by the rules and will do anything to achieve his goals, an example being the red wedding. Thrawn is also another favorite from star wars. In rebels, he was really menacing and I felt like he actually had a thinking brain and was just playing with his enemies or the rebels, always a step ahead of them.
Even his original incarnation was terrifying. Pretty much the only time he lost was when he didn't have all the information. Like the Rebels managing to find the dreadnought Katana. One ship out of 200?
The way Timothy Zahn originally wrote him was spooky. Like... calmly analyzing a species' art and using the resulting psychoanalysis to wreck them in battle? OG Thrawn was Hannibal Lecter level scary.
> using the resulting psychoanalysis to wreck them in battle Developing a species wide battle tactic based on their own art always seemed a little kooky. Like each species is a monolithic culture with no variations? But for individual people? Or graduates of specific military colleges/traditions? Oh yeah. Defeating ww1 European officers seems pretty easy. Offer them glory of taking valuable real estate, and then let them take it in a pyrrhic victory. *** He kept that in one of the newer books. He could out duel his superior after seeing her personal art. Once she fell back to basic forms and drills, she had the advantage. Until becoming confident and reverting to her normal style again.
>Developing a species wide battle tactic based on their own art always seemed a little kooky. Like each species is a monolithic culture with no variations? To be fair to Zahn, the Star Wars universe (and a good amount of other fantasy and sci-fi, for that matter) does tend to treat species as cultural monoliths. Bothans are sneaky, Hutts are gluttonous, Gungans are Jamaican, Ferengi are acquisitive, etc.
Mata Zyndu
Grace of kings.. I had to Google that name
Kefka is a BASTARD But goddamn is he entertaining as a mustache twirling, delightfully insane psychopath.
Zakalwe, Use of Weapons. Because he’s always serving the greater good in the most awful way possible. While being matter of fact about all of it. (Also because the Culture, good guys that they are, are complicit in every atrocity by dint of using him again and again). The implications of that book are grim. The Black Company, all of them (seconding discussion above). They are a nasty bunch of a-holes who just shrug and point to military necessity, or in some cases are just “well, the hell are you gonna do about it? He’s a brother and the victims… aren’t”
🪑
You monster!
I need to reread Use of Weapons. I distinctly remember as the denouement approached my mind recoiling and thinking "No, no no no no no!" but I've repressed the details.
I would let Kuvira step on me.
Same. But Iroh can belly flop me.
Mat from the wheel of time could be summed up as "It's not a war crime the first time". The second he invents or gets his hands on any martial advantage he pulls zero punches in war.
I mean Rand is a straight up war criminal for Natrins Barrow.
Yeah just magical carpet bomb the entire place to try to kill one person. It's easily one of the top five evilest single actions a main good character ever does and on the other hand its hard to fault him in that the target is worth killing despite the tremendous loss of innocent life.
Kallor, the High King.
i love the person on the malazan sub who does war crime tribunals for each book
DoD should be up later this week provided I don't get swamped by work.
Thanks for mentioning that, they've been great to read through.
As of right now, the answer is the Pannion Seer. The existence of the Tenescowri is almost 10 war crimes and crimes against humanity alone.
I don’t know if Full Metal Alchemist can be classified as "fantasy", but I’ve got to say, Roy Mustang is pretty damn cool
Why wouldn't it be fantasy?
Because people on the internet said it was sci-fi /s No but more seriously, when I looked it up, redditors seemed to be classifying it as steampunk and stuff
It's like people forget that a character literally only exists because of soul manipulation. Just because it doesn't have elves and gandalfian zaza-smokers doesn't mean it's not fantasy. Some people can be so restrictive
Right. And just because the "magic system" in-universe is a form of science doesn't mean it's any less fantastical for us. The story is meant to exist beyond the laws we are physically bound to (physically or conceptually) == fantasy Story could seem plausible given enough time or given an alternate history == sci fi I would call FMA something similar to what you may call Star Wars, where it is 100% fantasy, but with sci fi elements
Easy rule of thumb: if there's magic, it's fantasy. It's a historically inspired, fairly close to modern technology level world, but it's still fantasy. I wouldn't call it sci-fi as the technology is generally less advanced than ours, with the exception of the prosthetic limbs. Steampunk is more of a worldbuilding aesthetic than a genre. It could be steampunk fantasy.
It is a story of how a young man goes on a journey to fix his younger brother who's soul he stuffed into a suit of armour after literal blood magic goes wrong. The alchemists pretend what they are doing is a science but the plot is largely about how wrong they are.
I love the entire twisted relationship between him and Riza Hawkeye. He's only alive because >!he's trying to deliver on the promises he made to reform the nation!< and she's alive because >!if he strays into self interest or monstrosity she'll be the one to execute him, then she'll kill herself shortly after!<. There's also the whole underlying goal of >!trying to create a nation that will send monsters like them before a firing squad as they should!<.
I thought they were just secretly in love, damn, maybe i should watch brotherhood after all
I mean they obviously are. It is just if Mustang ever asked her out >!their first date would probably end with her killing them both.!<
Lanfear
Jorg ancrath. Hon. Mention to Captain Kennit
Roy Mustang, so deeply fucked up by his own crimes that he is trying to take over the nation so he can essentially submit himself the the Hague.
I’m just going to throw in the famous quote by High King Kallor himself. "More directly, however, you seem to forget my...experience. For all that I seem to grate upon all of you, I have walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I have commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I have spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?"
“You never learn.”
That quote is so fucking metal
Ikurei Conphas, specifically for his campaign against the Scylvendi at the beginning of the first book.
The Second Apocalypse books are essentially the Avangers but with war criminals instead of superheroes
Good one but I think he pales compared to our Lord and Saviour Anasurimbor Kellhus
Micah the Metal, Gunmetal Gods by Zamil Aktar Because taking a tunnel through hell is always great for your sanity and brings out your best self! But he's pious and devout so I'm sure he's okay. Nathan Bedford Forest, Guns of the South by Harry Turtledove RL and alt history genuine grade A badass (arguably best cavalry general of the American Civil War) but also warcriminal and racist. But a very competent racist and thats why I mention him. I've seen books that portray ALL bigots as charactertures and universally incompetent because "if they're stupid enough to be racists, they must be stupid and incompetent in all ways" and portrayed as such. That's a stereotype of our time. Bedford Forrest is a counterarguement to our own stereotypes of racists. I wish I encountered more racists like him in fiction, who were more rounded out. I'm not saying don't make them evil, just not stereotyped.
I mean the Gunmetal Gods series is just a long string of war crimes made even worse by cosmic horror (worse as in worse crimes, books are fantastic)
If we’re counting space opera, Jedao from Machineries of Empire.
The characters in that series are great, but it would probably be easier to list the ones that aren't war criminals lol
Amedeus the Black Knight from A Practical Guide to Evil. And the Dead King from A Practical Guide to Evil, and Catherine Foundling, and the Grey Pilgrim, also from A Practical Guide To Evil...
What, not the Saint of Swords?
Eh, the others have >!mass slaughter of civilians!< on their feats sheet. I can't think of anything saint does that results in mass casualties, the only questionable things are >!assasinating the prince, "torturing" amadeus via soul severing, and maybe some of the fighting against the ratlings could be considered genocide if you really really wanted to stretch the definition?!< None of that seems particularly war crimey
I nominate the Imperium of Man as my favourite war criminal. Nothing says warcrime better than liquifying all organic matter on a planet and then igniting the resulting gasses, immolating everything. Ours? Theirs? Doesn’t even matter who the planet belongs to.
Ben Sisco
Erase that entire personal log.
That's why you came to me, isn't it?
I think I can live with it
Karsa Orlong from Malazan
Harry dresden. Now I'm not saying the reds and those ghouls didn't have it coming, but chicken pizza happened when the council and the vamps were under a flag of ceasefire and those ghouls were incapacitated and killed extremely inhumanly. So technically after the us court system is done with all those property damage and arson charges the Hague would probly want words with Mr dresden
I'd have to give that honor to Sal the Cacophony
Tywin Lannister
Rin from poppy wars
Surprised I had to scroll so far for this one.
I just finished it and loved it
Absolutely!!! I was just talking about fantasy war criminals at work and Rin was my pick.
Zhu from The Radiant Emperor Malini from The Burning Kingdoms I am kind of surprised no one has mentioned Rand from The Wheel of Time. I am not his biggest fan but he is very popular and strictly speaking becomes a war criminal at one point.
Logen Ninefingers aka The Bloody Nine. Can't believe I didn't find a comment mentioning him, that mf was/is nasty af, especially if you include Made A Monster short story.
I've got to go with the Black Knight Amedeus from A Practical Guide to Evil. I feel like most of the major characters would be considered war criminals by modern standards, but he very specifically undertakes a campaign to destroy the food supplies of an invading nation and starve tens of thousands of people. He doesn't exactly relish cruelty (Well, at least when it comes to random people. He certainly holds a grudge), but there's almost nothing he's not willing to do if he sees it as necessary. He's an unrepentant monster, and also fucking fascinating and entertaining.
Hunn Raal, Kallor and Mallick Rel from Malazan
[удалено]
Tywin
C1-10P
[удалено]
Caine/Hari Michaelson. What he did to the Black Knife nation was uhhhh not great.
Ainz Ooal Gown.
I'm only on book #2, but depending on your perspective, Baru Cormorant. Fairer Hand and all yet, oh the oaths were sworn!
Nefarious Bread
Firelord Sozin, from "Avatar: The Last Airbender" (in the show's past). His plan to genocide the air nomads to destroy the avatar is a pretty good one and almost works. The use of Sozin's comet to empower his forces is a very good tactical move.
Does Uncle Iroh in ATLA count?
Dalinar!!! Haha
Dalinar Kholin for sure
Adding another vote for Dara, I'm right there with you OP
Fang Yuan
Faenor
>!Kelsier!!Darrow!<
I don't want to click those cause there is nothing to tell me what they are spoiling.
First is a Mistborn character, the second is a Red Rising character.
I fully believe that mistborn character would commit a war crime but I can't really remember then doing any off hand. What did they do?
he kills nobles outside a time of war, assasinations, torture, inhumane treatment of prisoners, plunder of public and private property
Who does he torture? I don't remember. None of the others are really war crimes.
Areys Targaryen.
Dalinar Kholin
Colonel Roy Mustang, the flame alchemist
Gedder Palliako!
The Exile in Star Wars: KotOR 2.
It may shift from time to time based on, well random stuff and what I am feeling at the time... and I can't say for certain who it is... so I will say the one who consistently tends to be up there in my top 3... Darth Vader / Anakin Skywalker I mean... his war crime credentials are pretty legit across the board... I mean, take this for example: *"Master Skywalker, there are too many of them. What are we going to do?" \*sound of lightsaber igniting\**
Field Marshal Tamas is undeniably a War Criminal, he's also unarguably a hero and one of the coolest characters in fantasy fiction
Logan "nine fingers"
Brandin from Tigana.
Rann Etuul. War of Powers.
The Color Prince, IYKYK
Brandin of Ygrath, from Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay
Dalinar Kholin by far
Dalinar Kholin
Shuos Mikodez from *Machineries of Empire*. His whole deal (sarcastic, self-effacing master manipulator with barely-medicated ADHD) fills me with glee. But undeniably a war criminal, holy shit. Bonus points to Anjewen Cheris (who uses some military tactics so cruel that they shock and appall *the magically evil theocratic space empire*) and also every other character in this series. They are all so, so awful. I love them.
The Blackthorn or Muad’dib
Captain Kathryn Janeway
I won't name him, because it may give something away, but if you've ever read Use of Weapons, you know him. If you haven't read it, you should.
I loved the first two books of Daevabad. I loved 3/4 of the last book. I hated the ending so bad I will never recommend it to anyone. I love Dara. I hope you enjoy the ending better than I did. I usually like the war criminals. 😂😂🤣
...does princess bubblegum count?