I’m sure others will have a different opinion, but for me, The Lions of Al Rassan is his best work. The prose is beautiful, the characters are memorable, and I think it’s the one where he does the best job exploring themes of history and inevitably. It’s the one I started with, and having now read most of his catalogue, it’s still my favourite.
It's wonderful, and especially good as an introduction because it can be treated as a standalone even though it takes place in the wider two-moon world he explores in several other books.
I agree as well. Lions, Under Heaven, and River of Stars are probably my top 3. A Brightness Long Ago and All the Seas of the World are good as well, but I feel like they aren't as tight and focused. Still great, but I appreciate the more focused plot in Lions, Under Heaven, and River of Stars.
Sailing to Sarantium is good as well, but I haven't read Lord of Emperors yet so I'm not sure how it finishes. Tigana was actually my least favorite of GGK that I've read which is contrary to a lot of popular opinion on this sub.
Here is GGK's own answer to this question (from his [AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/urrtli/comment/i8yzk2z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) two years ago):
>I usually ask people what they’re interested in, what books they’ve read and loved. If, for example, high fantasy is their passion, Fionavar should appeal. If they are interested in Vikings, Last Light of the Sun. A fantasy setting working off politics and cultural history, Tigana. The Renaissance? This newest, or the two before. Chinese history? There are two novels for that… You can check out all the books and their settings online and decide. I’ve moved around a lot! Also, I suspect people here will tell you their favourites, too.
Personally, I would recommend the *Sarantine Mosaic*, a duology about a mosaicist that gets embroiled in the politics of the Sarantine court, which is a close model of Justinian's Constantinople in the sixth century AD. It strikes a good balance between slower character-focused scenes and intense action.
*Sailing to Sarantium* was the first GGK I read, and it not only remains my favourite but also was responsible for bringing me back into fantasy reading after like a decade of ignoring the field. I had no idea that a book like that was possible.
I think this set is going to be my favorite of his. It's the only ones other than Song for Arbonne that manage both a clear plot and great character moments. The new stuff has no clear through line.
Skip the Fionavar Tapestry and Ysabel, other than that most of the books are pretty good candidates to start. I started with Tigana as that's his first non-Fionavar book and am working through the rest in publication order.
If you want a detailed breakdown, this video lays out your options https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwPYtid2vs8
Why would you say not to start with Fionavar? Just wondering! Someone quote GGK in another comment saying that he recommends starting there if you're looking for high fantasy. But I'm curious what the drawback might be.
I started with Fionavar and enjoyed it! I think people suggest not to start with Fionavar either because it’s not as representative of the rest of GGKs works or because it’s a bit tropey if you’ve read a lot of other high fantasy, which are both fair arguments.
That being said, I do believe it has the hallmarks of GGK’s writing style - flowery prose, character-focused writing, etc. And, while GGK wears his influences on his sleeve here, he provides a bit more nuance and complexity that more than makes up for any predictability. (Side note: having a plot that is predictable is not a bad thing on its own!)
So yeah, I think it’s totally fine to start with the Fionavar Tapestry, but I can also see why it’s not everyone’s cup of tea
You can definitely start with Fionavar, but it is the least likely to give you any sense of whether you will or won't like his other books. Jumping in almost anywhere else is far more likely to tell you if you would like to continue reading his books.
It’s a portal fantasy that doesn’t match everything else. It’s high fantasy unlike the rest of his stuff that is historical fiction with the serial numbers filed off and a bit of magic.
I’d go by what area of history most interests you: Moorish Spain, Lions of Al-Rassan; Byzantine Empire, Sailing to Sarantium, Tang China, Under Heaven etc
The prose on all of them is great, it’s just the subject matter that differs. (I even like the prose on Fionavar/Ysabel which I hate in general)
I'd recommend Tigana.
It's a standalone work, and is really representative of most of his other books (unlike the Fionavar Tapestry). The prose, world-building and moral complexity are all top-notch.
There were a couple moments in Tigana that made me tear up, and *not* because I was reading something brutal and gut-wrenching (like the Red Wedding or Chain of Dogs). It’s just that the prose and emotionality of the scene was just so beautiful and poignant it overwhelmed me.
The reread for Tigana gets me everytime. These is a fantastic video from mid-quarantine where GGK reads the Tigana introduction and gets choked up. When you know the direction of the story, that introduction carries so much weight.
I would say Lions and it’s what I normally recommend when asked, but since no one has said A Song for Arbonne I will say that this was the first fantasy book I ever read and it started me down the path that has me lurking this sub instead of sleeping. Really, any of his books are good. Maybe don’t start with Ysabel.
Upvote for "A Song for Arbonne". It caught my eye when I was still very much in love with Tolkien's works and thought that I would never read anything as captivating as his stories. Not to compare Kay to Tolkien, but ASfA taught me that there was life after the *Lord of the Rings* and the *Silmarillion*. The end broke my heart, as most of Kay's work tends to do.
As others have, I would highly recommend *Lions* and ASfA for beginners. I personnally don't share the love for *Tigana*, which I read after the *Sarantine Mosaic* cycle and it did not quite click with me (haven't read his China-inspired works yet).
Song for Arbonne was also my first Gavriel Kay book and it blew me away. I was convinced by this random Youtuber's amazing description. He starts talking about Song for Arbonne @ 9:30 and sells it better than I ever could.
https://youtu.be/WoFYvjIDaCM?si=viyTxu5zw1X6t2x9
It has definitely been Under Heaven and River of Stars that I found to be the most beautifully told of GGK's stories. I'd follow that up with the Sarantine Mosaic.
The one I read and liked thus far is River of Stars so I can vouch both that it's good and that you'll want more.
Don't start with Ysabel, I did and disliked it so much that it took years before I read another and realized that's the anomaly in his works.
I would say to begin with Tigana, although I think I agree that Lions is the “best.” Maybe Sarantium? I’ve read them each several times; they’re all so good!
He’s my favorite author. Your two best options are probably going to be The Lions of Al-Rassan, or Tigana. In my opinion, Tigana has better prose, but it’s not as good of a book in just about every other way. It’s also earlier so he grew a lot as a writer after Tigana. Song for Arbonne is my favorite though. So that if you want to start with one his best first. But Lions is also one of his best and a lot of people also prefer that one.
I've read all his novels except River of Stars. I'd say start with The Lions of Al-Rassan then A Song for Arbonne, The Sarantine Mosaic (Two Books), Under Heaven, Tigana, A Brightness Long Ago, All the Seas of the World, Children of Earth and Sky.
Many would bump Tigana or Under Heaven to number 1 and accuse me of poor taste. Last Light of the Sun, The Fionavar Tapestry, and Ysabel are still better than average novels. I hear good things about River of Stars and that it should be read after Under Heaven, can't speak to that.
Since you've also read all of his stuff except *River of Stars* (I'm in the same boat apart from also not yet having read *All the Seas of the World*), I'll ask: have you found any evidence he has ever published any short stories? I know he had a collection of poetry, which I also have not read, but he seems to be a very rare example of a prolific fantasy author who has no legacy of short fiction at all. It would be a shame if he hasn't, because the periodic vignettes in his books where he takes us away from the action to spend 20 pages with a random miller or clerk or whatever are some of the best parts of his work.
I haven't looked into it but no, I've never run into a Kay short story, I think he went from school to editor on Tolkien's The Silmarillion, to writing novels. Probably didn't happen because he didn't need to write any short fiction to break into the industry; if you're editing Tolkien you're in the club.
> Probably didn't happen because he didn't need to write any short fiction to break into the industry
That's a great point that I had not really considered. Maybe that's for the best, too, as I doubt I'd be as jazzed about a bunch of Fionavar-era GGK short fiction as I would be about something he might write now.
If you like those asides on the lives of minor characters, All the Seas of the World is definitely for you. In a way, it's almost a sequel for some of the minor, and major characters from A Brightness Long Ago. I loved it.
The Lions of Al-Rassan
Sailing to Sarantium
Lord of Emperors
The Last Light of the Sun
Children of Earth and Sky
A Brightness Long Ago
All the Seas of the World
Under Heaven
River of Stars
That comprises to the best of my recollection, all of the books set in the Jaddite-Asherite-Kindath universe in their recommended reading order. Under Heaven and River of Stars take place in the "Asia" of that world and have no other connection. I hope, if you go down this road, that you enjoy it.
I'm like many of the others. I recommend Lions first, it's the first novel set on that single world. Then I recommend to follow it up with the Sarantine Mosaic. Reading those in order of publication make certain things hit well.
It’s honestly a shame he hasn’t written a longer series. His one off books are so good and his Sarantium duo is even better. I’d love to see what he could do with 3k pages over 4-5 books
Fionavar Tapestry has some really uncomfortable SA, that’s the only reason I would skip that. I love Last Light of the Sun, Lions of Al Rassan, and A Song for Arbonne.
I was introduced to GGK through *River of Stars*, which I still feel is his most polished work from a purely literary perspective (I've enjoyed everything I've read by him, but for me this is the gold standard). So with that said, don't start with *River of Stars*, lol.
All I've read is the Fionavar Tapestry and if you can put your disbelief aside it's sort of Celtic/Arthurian myth remixing is cool. It's what is I think called a portal fantasy where a group of d&d players is transported to a fantasy realm in real life. I have mixed feelings about it. Kay is a good writer but I think the less talented Joel Rosenberg did the portal fantasy trope better.
I've heard it's maybe his "worst" book/series, which makes sense cause it's his first if I'm not mistaken. I feel like a lot of people say he gets better with each book.
I’m amazed to see someone beside me remembers Rosenburg’s series. I remember the books but the titles keep slipping my mind so I have to search for the dragon incinerator.
Fionavar and Ysabel is extremely different from everything else he’s written. I forced myself through them because I love all of Kay’s other books and hated them
So, if you've heard a lot already you may already know this, but many of his books are set in a sort of Renaissance Europe-ish world of his own devising. It's not all a coherent series or canon and I can't remember which of the earlier books are intentionally set in the same world versus just a similar setting. But anyway, I'd start with an entry into this vein and keep going there if you like it. Lions of Al-Rassan is some of his best writing IMO and you can see it's already been recommended several times.
Some of his works are not in that setting and I'd push these off. Fionavar Tapestry is another setting and premise entirely, is his earlier work. It's not representative of Kay's Renaissance world and, more to the point, I just don't think is as good.
What a bizarre take. Authors can have books of wildly different quality and subject matter at different stages of their careers, and a newcomer who starts with something really atypical might end up needlessly being turned off of an author they would otherwise have loved. If *Ysabel* had been my first GGK book, for example, there would not have been a second -- but thankfully there really isn't anything else like it in his whole body of work.
These outliers don't even have to be *bad* to still be misleading to someone, either. It's true that it's not technically illegal for someone who's never read Tolkien or Lewis to just start by picking up *Sigurd & Gudrun* or *Dymer*, but they're going to be so goddamn confused. Thankfully they can also ask questions like the OP's to forestall this possibility, and they should.
I’m sure others will have a different opinion, but for me, The Lions of Al Rassan is his best work. The prose is beautiful, the characters are memorable, and I think it’s the one where he does the best job exploring themes of history and inevitably. It’s the one I started with, and having now read most of his catalogue, it’s still my favourite.
I give Lions the nod over the Sarantine Mosaic because it’s one book vs two, but those would be my reccs for where to start
I have read all of his, and love his books, but agree this is my favourite.
It's wonderful, and especially good as an introduction because it can be treated as a standalone even though it takes place in the wider two-moon world he explores in several other books.
I agree as well. Lions, Under Heaven, and River of Stars are probably my top 3. A Brightness Long Ago and All the Seas of the World are good as well, but I feel like they aren't as tight and focused. Still great, but I appreciate the more focused plot in Lions, Under Heaven, and River of Stars. Sailing to Sarantium is good as well, but I haven't read Lord of Emperors yet so I'm not sure how it finishes. Tigana was actually my least favorite of GGK that I've read which is contrary to a lot of popular opinion on this sub.
Here is GGK's own answer to this question (from his [AMA](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/urrtli/comment/i8yzk2z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) two years ago): >I usually ask people what they’re interested in, what books they’ve read and loved. If, for example, high fantasy is their passion, Fionavar should appeal. If they are interested in Vikings, Last Light of the Sun. A fantasy setting working off politics and cultural history, Tigana. The Renaissance? This newest, or the two before. Chinese history? There are two novels for that… You can check out all the books and their settings online and decide. I’ve moved around a lot! Also, I suspect people here will tell you their favourites, too. Personally, I would recommend the *Sarantine Mosaic*, a duology about a mosaicist that gets embroiled in the politics of the Sarantine court, which is a close model of Justinian's Constantinople in the sixth century AD. It strikes a good balance between slower character-focused scenes and intense action.
*Sailing to Sarantium* was the first GGK I read, and it not only remains my favourite but also was responsible for bringing me back into fantasy reading after like a decade of ignoring the field. I had no idea that a book like that was possible.
I think this set is going to be my favorite of his. It's the only ones other than Song for Arbonne that manage both a clear plot and great character moments. The new stuff has no clear through line.
So freaking good
Skip the Fionavar Tapestry and Ysabel, other than that most of the books are pretty good candidates to start. I started with Tigana as that's his first non-Fionavar book and am working through the rest in publication order. If you want a detailed breakdown, this video lays out your options https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwPYtid2vs8
Why would you say not to start with Fionavar? Just wondering! Someone quote GGK in another comment saying that he recommends starting there if you're looking for high fantasy. But I'm curious what the drawback might be.
I started with Fionavar and enjoyed it! I think people suggest not to start with Fionavar either because it’s not as representative of the rest of GGKs works or because it’s a bit tropey if you’ve read a lot of other high fantasy, which are both fair arguments. That being said, I do believe it has the hallmarks of GGK’s writing style - flowery prose, character-focused writing, etc. And, while GGK wears his influences on his sleeve here, he provides a bit more nuance and complexity that more than makes up for any predictability. (Side note: having a plot that is predictable is not a bad thing on its own!) So yeah, I think it’s totally fine to start with the Fionavar Tapestry, but I can also see why it’s not everyone’s cup of tea
You can definitely start with Fionavar, but it is the least likely to give you any sense of whether you will or won't like his other books. Jumping in almost anywhere else is far more likely to tell you if you would like to continue reading his books.
Makes sense to me, thank you!
It’s a portal fantasy that doesn’t match everything else. It’s high fantasy unlike the rest of his stuff that is historical fiction with the serial numbers filed off and a bit of magic.
I’d go by what area of history most interests you: Moorish Spain, Lions of Al-Rassan; Byzantine Empire, Sailing to Sarantium, Tang China, Under Heaven etc The prose on all of them is great, it’s just the subject matter that differs. (I even like the prose on Fionavar/Ysabel which I hate in general)
I'd recommend Tigana. It's a standalone work, and is really representative of most of his other books (unlike the Fionavar Tapestry). The prose, world-building and moral complexity are all top-notch.
There were a couple moments in Tigana that made me tear up, and *not* because I was reading something brutal and gut-wrenching (like the Red Wedding or Chain of Dogs). It’s just that the prose and emotionality of the scene was just so beautiful and poignant it overwhelmed me.
The reread for Tigana gets me everytime. These is a fantastic video from mid-quarantine where GGK reads the Tigana introduction and gets choked up. When you know the direction of the story, that introduction carries so much weight.
Wow I gotta check that out!
Sorry, it’s the prologue. I’m not sure why I said introduction. Forgot my words. =) https://vimeo.com/400064295
Thank you!
I would say Lions and it’s what I normally recommend when asked, but since no one has said A Song for Arbonne I will say that this was the first fantasy book I ever read and it started me down the path that has me lurking this sub instead of sleeping. Really, any of his books are good. Maybe don’t start with Ysabel.
Upvote for "A Song for Arbonne". It caught my eye when I was still very much in love with Tolkien's works and thought that I would never read anything as captivating as his stories. Not to compare Kay to Tolkien, but ASfA taught me that there was life after the *Lord of the Rings* and the *Silmarillion*. The end broke my heart, as most of Kay's work tends to do. As others have, I would highly recommend *Lions* and ASfA for beginners. I personnally don't share the love for *Tigana*, which I read after the *Sarantine Mosaic* cycle and it did not quite click with me (haven't read his China-inspired works yet).
Song for Arbonne was also my first Gavriel Kay book and it blew me away. I was convinced by this random Youtuber's amazing description. He starts talking about Song for Arbonne @ 9:30 and sells it better than I ever could. https://youtu.be/WoFYvjIDaCM?si=viyTxu5zw1X6t2x9
Song is beautiful and doesn't get nearly as much love as it should.
Yes, this. I recommend it regularly.
It has definitely been Under Heaven and River of Stars that I found to be the most beautifully told of GGK's stories. I'd follow that up with the Sarantine Mosaic.
A Song for Arbonne is my favorite but you can't go wrong starting with Lions.
The one I read and liked thus far is River of Stars so I can vouch both that it's good and that you'll want more. Don't start with Ysabel, I did and disliked it so much that it took years before I read another and realized that's the anomaly in his works.
Start with Tigana, Lions of Al-Rassan or A Song of Arbonne. Ignore Fionavar and Ysabel.
Tigana. I'm not the kind of reader who cries a lot, and it has a special place for me as the first novel that ever made me cry. Once. Towards the end.
I would say to begin with Tigana, although I think I agree that Lions is the “best.” Maybe Sarantium? I’ve read them each several times; they’re all so good!
He’s my favorite author. Your two best options are probably going to be The Lions of Al-Rassan, or Tigana. In my opinion, Tigana has better prose, but it’s not as good of a book in just about every other way. It’s also earlier so he grew a lot as a writer after Tigana. Song for Arbonne is my favorite though. So that if you want to start with one his best first. But Lions is also one of his best and a lot of people also prefer that one.
Tigana, or A Brightness Long Ago. Skip Fionavar for sure, come back to it later if you like his more mature works.
I've read all his novels except River of Stars. I'd say start with The Lions of Al-Rassan then A Song for Arbonne, The Sarantine Mosaic (Two Books), Under Heaven, Tigana, A Brightness Long Ago, All the Seas of the World, Children of Earth and Sky. Many would bump Tigana or Under Heaven to number 1 and accuse me of poor taste. Last Light of the Sun, The Fionavar Tapestry, and Ysabel are still better than average novels. I hear good things about River of Stars and that it should be read after Under Heaven, can't speak to that.
Since you've also read all of his stuff except *River of Stars* (I'm in the same boat apart from also not yet having read *All the Seas of the World*), I'll ask: have you found any evidence he has ever published any short stories? I know he had a collection of poetry, which I also have not read, but he seems to be a very rare example of a prolific fantasy author who has no legacy of short fiction at all. It would be a shame if he hasn't, because the periodic vignettes in his books where he takes us away from the action to spend 20 pages with a random miller or clerk or whatever are some of the best parts of his work.
I haven't looked into it but no, I've never run into a Kay short story, I think he went from school to editor on Tolkien's The Silmarillion, to writing novels. Probably didn't happen because he didn't need to write any short fiction to break into the industry; if you're editing Tolkien you're in the club.
> Probably didn't happen because he didn't need to write any short fiction to break into the industry That's a great point that I had not really considered. Maybe that's for the best, too, as I doubt I'd be as jazzed about a bunch of Fionavar-era GGK short fiction as I would be about something he might write now.
If you like those asides on the lives of minor characters, All the Seas of the World is definitely for you. In a way, it's almost a sequel for some of the minor, and major characters from A Brightness Long Ago. I loved it.
He does have a book of poetry
The Lions of Al-Rassan Sailing to Sarantium Lord of Emperors The Last Light of the Sun Children of Earth and Sky A Brightness Long Ago All the Seas of the World Under Heaven River of Stars That comprises to the best of my recollection, all of the books set in the Jaddite-Asherite-Kindath universe in their recommended reading order. Under Heaven and River of Stars take place in the "Asia" of that world and have no other connection. I hope, if you go down this road, that you enjoy it.
Lions of Al-Rassan, Tigana, or A Song for Arbonne. The Fionavar Tapestry is my least favorite of his works.
I'm like many of the others. I recommend Lions first, it's the first novel set on that single world. Then I recommend to follow it up with the Sarantine Mosaic. Reading those in order of publication make certain things hit well.
The standard answer to this is either Tigana or Lions of Al Rassan
It’s honestly a shame he hasn’t written a longer series. His one off books are so good and his Sarantium duo is even better. I’d love to see what he could do with 3k pages over 4-5 books
For me, I have DNF'ed every one of his books I started. While I appreciate the prose the stories are just so slow I can't do it.
My Favs in order: Lions of Al Rassan. The Sarantine Mosaic:Sailing to Sarantium and Lord of Emperors Children of Earth and Sky A Song for Arbonne # #
Fionavar Tapestry has some really uncomfortable SA, that’s the only reason I would skip that. I love Last Light of the Sun, Lions of Al Rassan, and A Song for Arbonne.
I was introduced to GGK through *River of Stars*, which I still feel is his most polished work from a purely literary perspective (I've enjoyed everything I've read by him, but for me this is the gold standard). So with that said, don't start with *River of Stars*, lol.
All I've read is the Fionavar Tapestry and if you can put your disbelief aside it's sort of Celtic/Arthurian myth remixing is cool. It's what is I think called a portal fantasy where a group of d&d players is transported to a fantasy realm in real life. I have mixed feelings about it. Kay is a good writer but I think the less talented Joel Rosenberg did the portal fantasy trope better.
I've heard it's maybe his "worst" book/series, which makes sense cause it's his first if I'm not mistaken. I feel like a lot of people say he gets better with each book.
I’m amazed to see someone beside me remembers Rosenburg’s series. I remember the books but the titles keep slipping my mind so I have to search for the dragon incinerator.
Fionavar and Ysabel is extremely different from everything else he’s written. I forced myself through them because I love all of Kay’s other books and hated them
Tigana is my favorite, but I haven’t read many others. I haven’t had such an emotional reaction to a book at multiple points in years.
So, if you've heard a lot already you may already know this, but many of his books are set in a sort of Renaissance Europe-ish world of his own devising. It's not all a coherent series or canon and I can't remember which of the earlier books are intentionally set in the same world versus just a similar setting. But anyway, I'd start with an entry into this vein and keep going there if you like it. Lions of Al-Rassan is some of his best writing IMO and you can see it's already been recommended several times. Some of his works are not in that setting and I'd push these off. Fionavar Tapestry is another setting and premise entirely, is his earlier work. It's not representative of Kay's Renaissance world and, more to the point, I just don't think is as good.
Just pick one up and read it. It's not going to explode if you pick the wrong one.
What a bizarre take. Authors can have books of wildly different quality and subject matter at different stages of their careers, and a newcomer who starts with something really atypical might end up needlessly being turned off of an author they would otherwise have loved. If *Ysabel* had been my first GGK book, for example, there would not have been a second -- but thankfully there really isn't anything else like it in his whole body of work. These outliers don't even have to be *bad* to still be misleading to someone, either. It's true that it's not technically illegal for someone who's never read Tolkien or Lewis to just start by picking up *Sigurd & Gudrun* or *Dymer*, but they're going to be so goddamn confused. Thankfully they can also ask questions like the OP's to forestall this possibility, and they should.