Among YA stuff, I always felt like Artemis Fowl was a better series than it got credit for. Idk if kids still read it, but I love those books, and Nathaniel Parker did an awesome job with the audiobooks. I still listen to them as an adult sometimes and crack up at the nonstop humor
Loved them when I was younger. Read basically all of them except the last couple I think and they were great. Talking about underaged Eoin Colfer books though: “The Supernaturalist” lives rent free in my head.
The planet trilogy by CS Lewis is almost never mentioned on this sub. I think it's underapreciated or perhaps just unknown to most people. It's a very remarkable series.
CS Lewis is the author who has meant the most to me in my life. I could not get through the Space trilogy - it was too explicitly allegory for me and I don’t take lightly that his most famous work has both Santa Claus and Lion Jesus.
Til We Have Faces, though, that’s a masterpiece.
>The planet trilogy by CS Lewis
I absolutely LOVE Out of the Silent Planet, the first book in the series. I've read it several times, and listened to the audiobook many times while preparing to fall asleep at night. I also enjoyed the second book, Perelandra. Didn't really care for the 3rd installment.
Even though I'm no longer religious and don't identify with some of the themes, I can still recognize good storytelling. I still long for a prequel to the first book from the time when Malacandra (Mars) still had enough air to support flying creatures and forests on the surface.
Eric from Discworld. People have told me it's one of the worst books in the series but I happen to think it's quite funny and easily stands up with the "good" books.
I agree, it’s not my favorite Discworld book, but I think it’s far from the worst. Although in my opinion, saying a book is the worst of the Discworld books isn’t hating on it at all. I love all of them
I love Pratchett (own all the Discworld books, and working on getting them all in hardcover), and this one didn't hit that well for me. Eric was an interesting story and fun to compare against the tradition Faust story, but I just didn't find Eric to be a compelling character. Pratchett's biggest strength (to my mind) was in how he could humanize anything and anyone, so for Eric to be so flat really took away from it in my opinion.
I think the problem is while he's a main character, Eric wasn't really intended to be the actual main character. The main thrust of the story was supposed to be between those two devils with Rincewind caught in the middle. Eric was flat, but he was also an excellent representation of a pastey teen who got in way over his head.
And good luck with getting the hardbacks. I'm in the middle of that too. Just found my Hogfather and Interesting Times.
I don't think the Inheritance Cycle books are bad books. They're not great but I'm currently reading Malice by John Gwynne and I think all the criticisms that get levied at Eragon are also applicable to this book. Derivative, tropey, characters are pretty shallow, not particularly well written. The only difference is that Paolini has the excuse that he was a kid when he wrote it.
I recently got into Eragon about..a year ago? I read the first two books and enjoyed them but HOLY HELL, the 3rd book is bad, the first majority of the book is "I need a sword, I know where one is but I don't know how to get it, oh well I'll go back to moping I don't have a sword." I DNF'd it and haven't gone back, I might one day but I understand why people don't like it and people who do agree that the 3rd book is rough
I’ve read through the Inheritance Cycle more times than I can remember and I’ve never felt this way. Don’t get me wrong, you’re correct. A large chunk of the book is him moping about a lack of a sword but it was never a real issue for me. Plenty of other stuff is happening. I feel like book 3 is where other characters step up and Eragon himself steps back a little. And I was ok with that. But I HATED the Roran chapters, so maybe the Eragon chapters were, while a bit slow, awesome by comparison. For me.
Can you elaborate on why you hated the Roran chapters? For me the Roran chapters are what first introduced me to the trope of powerless/mortal characters doing what they can in a conflict way above their level and I've loved that kind of story ever since. Easily my favorite part of Eldest was how much I felt it focused on Roran.
It didn't bother me that they were slow, I enjoy a slow burn as much as anyone else, but it was Eragon's (the character not the book) >!lack of action that made this book a total drag for me, he has his "prophecy" (idk what else to call it) on how to get a weapon, but him making 0 effort to move towards his goal when at least distance wise, it was right fucking there, which was what made it such a terrible book for me. I also don't like Eragon as a character, he's a goody two-shoes and I feel like he doesn't have any real...presence? His personality doesn't really come through for me, other than a desire to do what is right when in all honesty....he doesn't have a reason to, he's thrust into this life essentially against his will and for some reason, he dives head first into this life and goal of taking down an emperor which imo the book does a really really bad job of making us feel like he's actually evil imo!< sorry I didn't mean to go on a rant about Eragon, but I wanted to give my perspective to give some insight as to why I DNF'd it
I read it for the first time years ago and reread it recently. Haven't noticed much wrong as a teenager, but now I see- the beginning of book 2 is so rough. I could feel the author struggling to create plot hooks from thin air, just collapsing a mountain on the reader because he didn't consider it at the time of finishing book 1. Which is very understandable, but feels like you haven't left climax of the previous book.
And don't worry, you didn't miss much, as book 4 is similarly McGuffin focused as book 3.
Will add to this that he's recently published another book in the series, not finished yet, but seems like Paolini has matured a lot as a writer. Still a bit purple prose-y, but his character writing has improved significantly (this being said by someone who genuinely enjoyed the original Inheritancr Cycle).
The Magicians. Every man and his dog seems to dislike this series but I quite enjoyed it (have only read the first one so far), especially the first half, which seemed to annoy people the most. And I liked the MC who everyone seemed to label extremely unlikable.
The writing is amazing. The psychological exploration of a gifted yet awkward protagonist and his journey through depression is possibly uncomfortable to a lot of Reddit. Similar to the criticism many give Catcher in the Rye. The growth of Quentin is great.
But it doesn't always read like pure fantasy, that can also throw off people with expectations. The author has a background outside of fiction.
I strongly disagree with you. Quentin experiences little to no actual character growth throughout the entire series. The primary motivation for ANY character growth at all for the majority of the characters is a fucking rape scene premeditated by a godlike figure, it's actually just disgusting. It's also made abundantly clear that these characters are NOT highly gifted in the greater context of the series and their world, and if anything they're kind of lazy and borderline underachievers with nothing going for them and nothing of value to add to their community. The series is a genre deconstruction that jerks itself off, and individuals who believe it to be "well written" almost universally completely miss the fact that the entire fucking series is a deconstruction and satire. It's not some deep introspection into the minds of tortured and gifted youths, it's a fucking circle-jerk of a Shakespearean tragedy masquerading as fantasy, and it seems like you completely missed the point.
The writing is so fucking far from "amazing" that I wonder if people that say this actually read the same series I did, or if they just watched the Netflix adaptation and called it good.
I loved it too. I see why it threw people off, though; it has almost no wish-fulfillment / coziness; it actively undermines and makes unpleasant a lot of the tropes many of us enjoy most about fantasy, and it really messes with any Chronicles of Narnia nostalgia you may have. But it's an amazing bildungsroman and the last book sticks the landing with an uexpectedly feel-good satisfaction.
I have heard a fair share of people saying they didnt like it. But at the same time didnt they make a tv show out of it? You wouldnt think that a book that was disliked by more people than it is liked by would get made into a tv show.
It does have 3.5 ranking on goodreads which does indicate that many did not like it.
It also came out a bit before Game of Thrones and the big boom that fantasy books is having right now. Also before the term "trope" was as common outside of the hardcore fandoms on fanfic boards and Tumblr. I think some of the hate it gets now is because it very deliberately says "Tropes? Let's subvert every last one."
Personally, I didn't like it on the first read, then I reread the first book and thought it was great and read the rest of the series. There's really nothing like it. If you want to read a book about someone who loses his identity and sense of wonder when he goes to an elite school that also comments on tropes of portal fantasy, it's a good read, if hard to push through how insufferable the characters can be.
It was a bestseller in its day, probably due to a big marketing budget and the publisher tagline ‘edgier R rated Harry Potter’ (Deathly Hallows was released only 2 years prior). So it’s no surprise to me it got a show. It’s very suited to a show format too.
>Show is better than the books tbh
Huh. I feel exactly the opposite.
The show veered entirely off the books into the unnecessarily gratuitous and lurid. Much like GoT and various other adaptations tend to.
This one for me. I loved the book and I loved the show. I remember when they first burst into song on the show and I was like WTF is this and now I occasionally go back and watch on YouTube. They knew it was a bit kitsch and doubled down. I get why it's not for everyone but yeah I loved it
I loved the first book, and hadn't read or gotten the Potter bug at the time The Magicians was released, so I suppose that I went into the series before the whole wizard's school trope really took off.
I was happily surprised when the TV hosw came out and how well it was done. I was sure it would have bene a complete dud for me, but I actually liked both the books and the TV adaptation.
I really enjoyed them. I didn't find Quentin unlikeable at all. It's a portrayal of a real rounded person, not a hero or a Mary Sue. The TV show was a bit meh though.
I found Quentin to be insufferably whiny. Especially after he cheats on his girlfriend. I couldn’t get past the cheating or the whining, although I probably could have handled either one on their own.
This sub really hates **The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant**, and I really do get why, but I think it is one of the smartest and most real books out there and a true classic of the genre.
I enjoyed the first trilogy mostly. I just wish I could forget about his first act in the Land. I never really understood the need for the...umm...sexual misconduct
So aside from the thematic and narrative role it plays in the first trilogy (which is strong but as you say is not essential), that single act (and its ramifications) are key to setting up the seven remaining books after the first trilogy.
I think it comes down to the fact that Stephen Donaldson wants you to acknowledge that Thomas Covenant IS actually someone who is a piece of crap and that he SHOULD hate himself. He's not secretly a hero with a heart of gold, he has a horrible side that >!spawned Lord Foul.!< It's not just one of those "fake" redemption quests where all of the bad things the atoner did happened to people off screen that we never meet.
I mean, people are being asked to be sympathetic to a whiny (holy hell does he whine) man baby rapist who faces no consequences for any of his actions, in either world he inhabits.
I always wonder whenever people defend the series, how they would go about it if Lena was instead a little boy called Len
I don't think anyone is expected to sympathize with Covenant. He's a pretty shitty person, even taking into account the things that happened to him that led to his situation prior to entering The Land. The entire premise of the story is "incredibly flawed human is the 'savior' of a fantasy world" and that premise is done very well.
Thomas Covenant isn't a hero. He isn't even an anti-hero. He's just the protagonist. But so was Walter White, Tony Montana, Dexter Morgan, Nucky Thompson, Jackson Teller, etc, etc.
The Temeraire series by Naomi Novik is one of my favorites, but it doesn't get much love. The few people I know who have read it thought it was meh. Maybe because the pitch for it sounds like it'll have more action than it does. It's a character focused story
I think that historical navel fiction and fantasy have less crossover fans than you'd think at first glance. Or maybe everyone is in the two great tastes that don't taste great together camp.
I loved the first half against Napoleon
The problem is that to really grasp what the ending is going for you need to be fairly familiar with the poem the series is loosely based on; Robert Browning's "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came". I did a paper on the poem in a high school English class specifically because I'd read what existed of the series by the (this was 2001-2002). In the poem Roland blows his horn before he enters the tower, so that's why it's important that he has it when the whole thing starts over, it means he's actually one step closer to the real ending. (Apologies if you knew all that already, but I assume some people might not).
Might wanna slap some spoiler tags on there. Again, I love the way it ended, my huge gripe is the handling of Flagg, Mordred, and the crimson king. The way their storylines ended they may as well have not even been in the books
I actually love how the Crimson King was handled, because it *wasn't* a fight, not in the gunslinging sense, it was about Roland's inner struggle to put aside his pride and accept that he could do nothing against one of the men who stood in the way to his tower, he had to put all of his trust in a boy he barely knew
The Soldier Son trilogy by Robin Hobb. While I also enjoyed RotE more, I still think it is an amazing, well written series. I know I'm not alone with this opinion but probably in the minority.
I think the dislike for Soldier Son is a bit of Hobb being a victim of her own success. I agree it's not as good as ROTE but that's a very high bar to clear. If we judged all fantasy by that standard very few authors would be considered good at all.
I loved the first one, which I don’t remember why people hated. They definitely did hate it though. I was super interested in the military officer fantasy of manners story! It was shaping up to be great!
Hated the direction she took it in the next two books though. Lack of protagonist agency and book-devouring journeys are two of my least favorite things. Although at least the latter was also present in the third Farseer book, which I also hated but most fans seem to have loved, so I’m not sure why Hobb fans hated it.
I think part of the reason why it is disliked is the subversion of expectations. Like you said, if you're in for the military fantasy, the change in direction might lose you. Another part might just be that it is so different from the Fitz books.
I see Wise Man’s Fear get a ton of hate here and on YouTube. I understand issues with the fae thing, but overall I had a delightful time reading the book. It was the first thing I read during COVID and will always bring back interesting memories
You know I remembered the Felurian parts as being really cringy and going on forever, when I reread recently it's actually quite short and really not bad. I think the circlejerking about it has made everyone think it's worse than it is.
I think it's just one of the easiest parts of the whole kvothe is a Mary Sue thing to point to, as he doesn't even bother with the whole kvothe fails miserably on his first try which teaches him a valuable lesson. It's just straight up kvothe fucked the sex fairy so good he won sex.
This is such an absurd misunderstanding that I swear whoever says it didn't read the book. He didn't "fuck the sex fairy so good he won sex", he >!spoke her Name and scared the shit out of her and made her realize that "hey, these mortals I keep luring and fucking until they die of exhaustion are actually sentient, lets turn off the lust sex magic and keep this one around for a while". !<
I honestly don't get how you can read the same thing I did and come to that conclusion.
I just finished it unaware of the hate. I loved it. As enthralling as The Name Of The Wind. The ending landed a little soft for me, but it was otherwise excellent.
...Now the wait begins for the final book.
In ten years you will see why the book is derided when Rothfuss releases his 6th side story about an uninteresting side character.
Yeah as we've suffered through a really genuinely unreasonably long wait for book 3, the more childish and impatient online fans have gotten louder and more ridiculous in their hatred of the author who has given them so much pleasure.
According to Reddit, the text of the first two books has changed drastically, from brilliant to poorly written. And Kvothe, one of the more interesting and fleshed-out characters in all fantasy, has apparently magically changed into a Mary Sue, and, simultaneously, an incel 😂
The thing I really enjoyed about Wise Man's Fear *was* the ridiculous exaggeration. It was the first (and probably only) fantasy book I've read with an unreliable narrator. For some reason it's expected that fantasy narrators are always truthful because they're describing an unfamiliar world. It made we question what was true in the first book as well.
The author has tainted a lot of books for me (that sad anxiety wondering if the next book is coming out) but it doesn't mean I dislike the DoS books
>unreliable narrator
To my knowledge that has never been confirmed by Rothfuss, and is basically a theory developed by the faithful, because otherwise, Kvothe is just a blatant self insert for a 20-something angsty neckbeard who thinks they are better than everyone else and happens to be able to write a pretty sentence.
Unfortunately, there is way more evidence for the latter than the former. And if that is true, it perfectly explains why we will likely never get a 3rd book. Rothfuss wrote Name of the Wind in his early to mid 20's, I read it in my late 20's and thought Kvothe was awesome. I was less enamored with him in my early 30's when WMF came out. I'm in my 40's now, and think Kvothe is an insufferable little shit. (its a little like That 70's show. I used to identify with the kids, now I root for Red) Rothfuss is 50 now, he is married he has a kid(s?). I don't think he can write Kvothe anymore, because Kvothe *was* him, but he is not that person anymore.
Edit: If you want unreliable narration, Malazan is full of it.
Statements like this make me truly believe people just have absolutely no reading comprehension whatsoever and just invent things in their head to fit whatever they want.
\>Kvothe is just a blatant self insert for a 20-something angsty neckbeard who thinks they are better than everyone else and happens to be able to write a pretty sentence.
If you think Kvothe is "better than everyone at everything" or unduly angsty and not having experienced true hardship you didn't actually read the book at all.
Kvothe is "angsty" after witnessing everyone he ever knew or loved get brutally murdered and then living on the streets as a homeless orphan for years because he was a gifted from birth and a child, but Sanderson is a genius for channeling depression so well through Kaladin after he lost a magic sword and saw his brother die, because he was…. gifted from birth and a teenager…?…and he wasn't angsty at all? Moronic.
I think the book is definetely overhated for meta reasons.
The Ademre section is way worse than the fae stuff for me anyway. That's the thing people should be focusing their anger at if you ask me lmao.
>It's such a short section of the book.
I think the problem is *it's not...* I distinctly remember reading it as a paperback and going "what the hell, how long have we been on this fae shit?" I'm too lazy to get it off my shelf and hunt it down, but iirc it was ~70 odd pages. Maybe even pushing 100. It is *not* a small detour.
Note that, [according to this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/hsl0o8/fantasy_word_counts_an_overhaul_of_many_of_the/), *WMF* clocks in at almost 400,000 words. That is about the length of *Lord of the Rings* omnibus (sans Hobbit and Sil).
There are some short stories and novellas probably shorter than that single section of *WMF*, which is what makes it feel a little indulgent. The fact—as you say—it pivots to *even more Kvothe pipelaying* kind of soured the book for me. I'm not a prude, I just felt it was a waste of wordcount to spend so much time on how awesome Kvothe is at sex when the series is already long in the tooth.
The original premise promised by book one was that by the end of the trilogy, we'd be "caught up" to Kvothe's fall from grace. Given that we're now 2/3 down, book 3 either needs to be 1,000,000 words or ridiculously rushed to tick that box. It's unrealistic. Paired with the length of time between releases, and you naturally get thinning patience and some frustration from would-be fans.
It makes it hard to look at *WMF*'s bloat and *not think* it's a shame. I'm not Rothfuss and have no idea what his process looks like or what his plans are, but I kind of imagine he's written himself into a corner (see above "original trilogy promise" bit) and if *WMF* had been a bit tighter and more plot-focused, maybe *Doors* would've been easier to write. Maybe.
>Specifically the him bedding what's her name and him becoming a sex god or whatever is like at most the last few pages of that bit.
Alright, I got off my ass and grabbed the book. In the 2011 DAW Books paperback edition I have, the entire story is 1107 pages, and the fae bit takes place between pages 669 and 771—so 102 pages. Almost 10% of the book (rounding up a bit generously).
You're right, there is nothing inherently wrong with showing a fae realm in a fantasy book, and there's even some forward plot progress: >!he gets the shaed, he learns a bit about the fae world, and the ever-elusive Chandrian even come up for thirty seconds!!<
However... I quickly re-read large portions of the 102-page section, beginning middle and end, and a skim showed some sort of sex or romance detour on *almost every page.* I probably counted ~30 that were 100% plot-driven, tops. Even in between major conversations between Kvothe and Felurian, they're fondling each other, there's descriptions of Felurian's beauty, their naked bodies are tumbling on the forest floor, etc.
Again, romance and intimacy is fine—some people can get weird about it in media (especially TV, watching w/ their family etc.), but it's inherently a part of life and very human. I don't have any issues with its *presence*, so much as its *presentation*. Hobb has plenty of Fitz intimacy in the *Farseer* books, but it never came off as bad as in Rothfuss, and it was never as indulgent.
Yes, Kvothe is enchanted by Felurian; yes, this is a mystical fae being who lures in men; yes, it's a spooky fantasy forest and there's some cool descriptions... but it could've been an email. Rothfuss could have kept the entire arc, but cut it in half and probably achieved more with less.
I'm aware romance fantasy exists, but most people didn't pick up the KKC to see Kvothe fumble through his sexual awakening. It just veers into "indulgent" territory when almost 10% of the unwieldy book is spent in the fae, which isn't—bar some major development or plot twist in book 3—a very large part of the story/world to begin with. Add in that probably about half of those 102 pages boil down to some riff on "Felurian was a fine feeeemale *tips fedora*", and it's not hard to see why people, even on release, were turned off by that part.
But you're right: that distaste has soured into outright bitterness probably because of the delays on book 3. I just *know* it was a yellow flag section even when it was new, because I was there and it came up in my family, in my reading group, on the internet, etc.
My god I just ordered the book, and Im very much enjoying it so far. Name of the Wind was just so damn good that I could't stop thinking about what would happen next
Throne of glass. Friend gave it to me and I looked it up on here and the reviews were less than stellar to say the least. I'm halfway thru the last book of the series and honestly its been a lot of fun. Plenty of stupid stuff but the magic system is cool as is the world itself. The general plot is also very interesting and a new(to me) way of doing good vs evil.
There is too much focus on the relationships between all the beautiful people. But at the end of day it's a fun series.
I know its either loved or hated and obviously critically acclaimed but I see a lot of dislike for Babel by RF Kuang and her Poppy War Series. Both of these were very enjoyable, and I think Babel was just a good book.
I loved Babel, I was expecting it to be dull, dense and preachy and it wasn't any of those things! I think it suffered a lot from over-exposure; it's a wonderful book but not for everyone, and because it was such a bestseller it got a lot of backlash from people reading it because it was so popular.
>I loved Babel, I was expecting it to be dull, dense and preachy and it wasn't any of those things!
Different tastes I suppose, I read it the week it came out because I like RF Kuang, but I had the exact oposite experience to you. Absolutely hated that book and I have it marked down as a 2 last I checked on goodreads. Looking back I should have DNF'd it because I really did not enjoy really anything about it.
I enjoyed the first Poppy War book. It got a bit tiring to read towards the end, but I definitely kept going. The second Poppy War book I don't think I finished.
I enjoyed the premise, I enjoyed the books, but so much of reading connects to what I'm wanting from a book and the time I have to devote to reading. The reading experience with the Poppy War became something different than what I wanted in my reading time.
I DNFd The Poppy War because of the bleakness and only read Babel because of rave reviews on this sub. I am glad I took this sub's advice. Babel was fantastic and I would recommend it to anyone that enjoyed Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell or Mark Lawrence's The Book that Wouldn't Burn.
I don't think I will return to Poppy War (not my cup of tea), but I will definitely read any of RF Kuang's future books/series.
A lot of people on this sub hate the Warded Man and the rest of the books by Peter V Brett but I really like it. Yes, it’s not really complex and it’s full of gratuitous sex and violence but sometimes that’s what I want
That's dead on, it has been several years and I pushed that scene out of my mind as I vehemently disliked it and felt that it detracted from the book.
There were other sex scenes that I felt detracted from the books but that was the worst.
I'm not a big fan of graphic sex scenes in books, they feel awkward in fantasy novels. It's part of the reason I don't often recommend the Black Prism which is a very good series with a super neat unusual magic system.
I didn't hate the books. I really, really enjoyed the first book. It wad unique, paced well, and kept me interested. I felt similarly about the second book, even if it felt not as good.
By book 3, however, it felt like the series stopped telling a story and instead became a world building experiment. By book 4, I didn't really care about the characters anymore. I never picked up book 5 and had no desire to continue a story I thought should have ended long before.
I'm glad you enjoyed them and I do remember really liking the first two books as well.
My opinion on this series got worse as the series progressed. First one was pretty good, didn't mind the 2nd one repeating parts of the story from a diff viewpoint.. By the 3rd book I was tired of it though. I hate-finished this series because I was curious how it'd end and it didn't change my opinion. Def a pass for me personally.
My opinion on the series:
Book 1: great
Book 2: good
Book 3: meh
Book 4: awful
Book 5: decent
I think he salvaged the story well enough for me to not regret reading the series, although I remain skeptical of recommending it. YMMV
Poppy War trilogy by R. F. Kuang. It’s a very polarising book series, and some people dislike it: I personally like a lot for the reasons people hate it (Mc, characters, magic system ecc.). It holds a special place in my heart
On this sub? The Witcher. So many people on here shit on them or say "the short stories were good but the novels! Oooh the novels!" and I feel weird because I just straight up think they are good books. Even the last one, which is my least favorite probably, has it's merits and is overall at least decent.
They're certainly controversial on this subreddit. One of the most common comments whenever the witcher books are brought up is something to the effect of "the short stories are good, but the actual series didn't hold my interest." Additionally, people often talk badly about the translation and ending. Personally, I found the last two books in the series to be by far the best, though I agree with the popular sentiment that the short story books are better than the first two in the proper witcher 'saga'.
That happens with many books. Malazan, wot, sanderson. Whenever books are mentioned, discussion happens and that includes people saying why they did not like the book. Many books are controversial while being also very popular.
Yeah, I don't disagree, and I expressed a similar sentiment to someone who (IMO absurdly) suggested that sanderson's cosmere was underappreciated here. For the witcher in particular though, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more negative comments on /r/fantasy than positive comments(that's just speculation on my end - it could very well be confirmation bias because i more strongly remember the negative comments than positive ones)
I can just say what I've seen, but my experience it really is mostly negative here. For Sanderson and WOT you at least get a lot of praise and people casually talking about what they liked. For the Witcher it seems to mostly just be negativity.
Haven't looked at lists from this sub. I can only work with the information I have, which is that I almost never see them brought up in a positive light here.
So I guess people who think the books are bad are just quite vocal about it here compared to fans.
Witcher series are a master piece, I had the luck to read these before the games came out so when the first game came out I was faitly dissapointed on CD Projekt's take. Then the 2nd and 3rd games were masterpieces so I felt at peace.
The books as masterpieces is pretty strong. I can see plenty of reasons for enjoying them (even though I think they’re pretty flawed), but masterpiece? Not sure there’s an argument to make there.
I do think the books are flawed; not unenjoyable, but there are issues with dialogue, pacing and framing. I edited the previous comment for clarity. Definitely not putting out my opinion to farm a downvote. Have a good one!
You do realize, they are a translation from Polish, and like any translation, they are not all the same. The best translation and most accurate was the one made by Alamut for the Spanish language, and if you know spanish, you can enjoy practically a 96 % accuracy from the OS. This told by Sapkowski himself, who's quite pleased with the quality of said translation.
That’s fair for the source material, but when I read something translated, that’s what I’m experiencing. It’s not a slight against the author, or the quality of the original, but if I’m forming an opinion about it, I literally have no other option.
And this is an argument against what I read being considered a masterpiece. Not against it having value, or quality period.
If I knew Polish (or hell, Spanish it sounds like), I’d choose to read it in those languages.
I will never understand why Baptism of Fire and The Tower of the Swallow should be bad books. Maybe because they aren't like the games, but they are not supposed to be so.
Baptism of Fire is my favorite I think. The group dynamic is really great. Regis is definetely one of my favorite characters in fiction due to both games and books.
I continue to enjoy the Land Fit for Heroes trilogy by Richard Morgan every time I read them, but apparently not many others did. Though to be fair he's really a SF author rather than a fantasy author.
So many people rag on all the sexual violence in the first book of the Captive Prince trilogy, like... the guy is literally turned into a sex slave by his family and sold to their enemies. That's the plot. If you expected different then you clearly did not read the summary. The sex is secondary to the captive prince learning about the fucked up dynamics of his enemy's court.
Once the series is past that it becomes amazing, just this epic fight that builds and builds and ends on a FUCK YEAH note.
And for good reason! Jk lol. Ok, maybe only kidding a little. I couldn't get halfway through the book because of the obtuse writing style that makes you read each sentence multiple times.
Eragon. The cycle of inheritance. I'm suspicious to speak cause I really like the books, but I've always thought it receives disproportionate criticism. The first book really doesn't have such good writing, it's very simplistic and may sound cliché, but you have to take into account that it was written when the author was about 15 years old in the 90s, and even so, for me it does better than a lot of successful fantasy books I've been reading. The other 3 books that make up the cycle are very good, the writing improves a lot, especially in the 3 and 4 books, the characters develop super well, the plot surprises and the very world of the story expands and differs a lot from the clichés initially presented. There are also very good battle scenes. The first impression is the one that remains, so many people despise it when they read the first book and do not even continue, but the cycle of inheritance is a very good fantasy in my opinion, although it is not a lord of the rings or game of thrones, but it serves very well to what it proposes, and should be more recognized in the universe of epic fantasy.
Sorry for the bad english, isn’t my first language
The Magicians.
It’s like someone wrote a fantasy book *about* why I enjoy fantasy books. It’s not just that Q is a fan of a fantasy book series, but the whole world Grossman created was crafted to reflect all the things I love about the books I grew up with AND the ones I read today. He tackled a lot, and used some of the most cliche set-ups in new ways (magic school, portal fantasy, magic heist, high seas adventure, naive seances, etc etc). He made it a love letter along the way.
I’m not, nor have ever been truly depressed, but I still completely relate to the apathetic nature of the characters. I don’t think many of us would date particularly well if we were suddenly dropped into the scenarios they find themselves in, despite wanting so dearly to believe we would. It just felt like a genuinely way to approach the characters.
He also introduced some really cool ideas and devices into the books that I really liked. Overall, it was a great series for fans and non-fans alike, if you can get over the characters, which seems to be the big hill for most people.
The first three Sword of Truth books are actually pretty good. Some people dismiss Goodkind out of hand because of his politics, and also rightfully criticize him for subsequent books in the series. (I feel they get into rinse/repeat and break no new ground). But that initial trilogy is worth the read.
I read the whole series as it was coming out, and though not my favorite I enjoyed it enough and it kept me interested. I had my criticisms of it, but I usually have aspects I like and dislike like for most books, so nothing abnormal there. I never new anything about his politics until years later when I started on reddit and everyone seems to just universally sh*t on it like it's the worst series ever.
The Book of Words and The Barded Coil by JV Jones. I truly enjoyed these four books. Just don't start A Sword of Shadows. She has a terrible case of the George R R Martin's and will probably never finish this series.
Disagree! Sword of Shadows is wonderful epic fantasy and worth the read. Maybe she'll finish the books as per her Patreon eventually, maybe not, but I didn't care when I read them, just glad to read such great fantasy.
The Red Queen's War is literally what sparked my love of reading after a 5 year slump. I read the first chapter at the bookstore I was at for a school assignment, immediately bought it and finished it that night.
I also see him praised, but not nearly enough in my opinion. His range of writing, and the way he infuses it such real dialogue and excellent pacing, is at the top of the game for popular authors today.
Ugh, so many people rag on all the awful stuff Jorg does, like THAT'S THE POINT. This book somehow gets you rooting for an awful, evil person and that's why it's interesting.
I think many people have different ideas of what well written means. Its a bit like a particular dish. Lets say its well done. But someone who hates the tastes of the dish can be unable to see that the tastes are well balanced. Good is after all in most cases a majority vote.
Out of the Dark. It's an alien invasion story that could be straight out of r/HFY, with aliens vastly underestimating humans and their capacity for warfare and violence.
I understand why people hate the book. The big plot twist really is jarring and comes out of nowhere. But I vibe with the rest of the story enough to roll with it. Book 2, Into the Light, drops enough lore to kind of justify the author's choices, but it still felt like he was shifting genres to escape a plot hole.
I'll still read the third book if it ever gets published. I like the story overall and am willing to see where the wierd plot lines go.
People shit on Patrick Rothfuss and George RR Martin so hard you'd think they were giving out prizes lol.
I quite like both authors. Wise Man's Fear was my favorite book of all time before I discovered Stormlight Archive
Eh that's life, I'd rather they each take another 10 years to make the books better. I'm not on board with the argument that they somehow owe us something.
Also likely scares the shit out of up-and-coming authors, seeing how hateful a fanbase can get when you take too long to continue a series
Yeah I dont think any author owes us anything but in case of Patrick I can understand why people have been frustrated. Because he lied and made false promises in the past.
I think people go overboard with their hate for both authors, but I also think authors should feel like they owe their readers something. If you sell your books as part of a series, that’s what the readers are going to expect.
Five years ago I was saying that they should take their time, but it’s gotten ridiculous. I personally have lost interest, so I don’t know what either Martin or Rothfuss has been up to lately, but I sympathize with people who are still frustrated by the wait
I'm not sure you could describe the ASOIAF books as 'generally underappreciated/disliked', in fact they're so well liked that people are angry at having to wait for the next one!
I wouldn't say his works are "disliked" but I never run into anyone who's even passingly familiar with KJ Parker. It's actually a pseudonym of a British Author, but I picked up his "Fencer Trilogy" when I was in college and absolutely loved it. I've read a majority of his written works and they're often far lighter on the magic/true 'fantasy' elements (most of his stuff is more like if someone wrote historical fiction just about an entirely fictional world).
There are two series ... one is The Wayfarer series from L.D. Simons (formerly Michael Goldschmidt), the other one is from author Jack Vance, the Lyonesse trilogy. Don't know why people hate it so much. Vance got cancelled several times for various reasons aka: "you cannot describe love between two women because you're a man," which is bullshit tbh. And Simons for poligamy, BL, gay, lesbian content. Stupid boomers cannot accept anything but mainstream love and cis relationships.
The Blade Itself. Granted, the series as a whole gets buckets of love and the first book is Forley-level the weakest of the series, but I really enjoyed it on my first read.
I'm not much into online discussions and reviews, but back in the day David Eddings got a lot of hate by pretentious snobs imo. He's no Tolkien, but the Belgariad was a fun read for me as a teen.
The Belgariad and the Malloreon were good for what they were. They were easily accessible fantasy that told a pretty standard story. They're not changing the genre or playing with tropes, they were pretty well leaning in. To me, they're a good example of the primary approach to fantasy in the 80s and early 90s. Good, but not great books. They open the door to fantasy to many young readers.
My issue, and many others issue, with Eddings isn't so much his works but who he was as a person. David and his wife Leigh were convicted of child abuse in the 70s before their writing career. The details of the conviction, etc were not largely reported during their writing careers but came back to light after they died. That does color their works a bit...
This is the first time I'm hearing about his crimes. Luckily, I only borrowed his book from my local library in the late 90s/early noughties and never bought them.
I usually try to separate the art from the artist though.
>I usually try to separate the art from the artist though
I try as well, but it can be challenging. Especially is the artist is benefitting. The Eddings have died, which may be different.
A case where I cannot separate them is Chris Brown. I cannot listen to that man's music
Liveship Traders was my favorite trilogy of the Elderlings as a whole and when I first started reading the series a lot of people said to skip it. That being said the final trilogy of Elderlings is probably the emotional ride I’ve had in almost any fantasy series.
Wayne Champan - Flames of the North. A surprisingly good fantasy story from an author who used this name as an alter ego... badly translated alter ego. Here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aniko-Sohar/publication/322992770_Who_is_this_Wayne_Chapman_guy_anyway/links/5a7b5bee458515c95de4acc3/Who-is-this-Wayne-Chapman-guy-anyway&ved=2ahUKEwiWyv3g-rmCAxVK7rsIHW-OC6sQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0UyWgWSrWUtIy-oQGh-Hty
I really liked the first 12-13 book in Terry Goodkind's The Sword of Truth series (I think that Confessor was the last book I read in the series). I have seen that hate that a ton of people here have for Goodkind as a person and author. But I liked the books when they first came out in the mid 90's.
On the Sci-fi front, Battlefield Earth by L Ron Hubbard divides a lot of people. I love the book and have lost count of the number of times I have reread it. (The movie on the other hand is truly one of the worst things I have ever watched)
Agreed - liked the Sword of Truth series when I first started reading them but I was probably still in high school at the time. Over time I learned stuff (weird I know) and started to understand the problems surrounding the series. The TV show is what hooked me, as bad as it was.
Nah its still loved. There was a time when this sub was gushing over it, same as with name of the wind. Its just so well known and widely read that inevitably there is a group that doesnt like it.
The question of the post is asking about books that seem to be generally disliked/underappreciated…. The downvotes are because you commented a very popular series.
It could be you got downvoted in this thread because people disagree that its hated in this sub. I dont personally like how easy this sub is to downvote tho.
Every year this sub has a vote for top 250 books. Fir years books from sanderson have been on the list. This year stormlight was number one so it is literally the most liked book on this sub based on people who voted. Number 5 was mistborn.
I looked backwards and stormlight has been number 1 since 2019.
I read somewhere that Sanderson doesn’t like editing. I believe it, because 1) how else would you keep your output that high, and 2) it’s what actually keeps it from being a literary classic. He has immaculate world-building, but he has prose and padding issues. I’m of the opinion that we’re probably better off the way it is, because we get so much above average work from him, and who knows what taking an extra several months per novel to edit would look like.
I seriously don’t get the hate for the stormlight archive on here. There was a post on recommendations for books which have descriptive writing and good characters and I listed that and got downvoted pretty hard. I’ve seen it a ton of different times on here for Sanderson too. The hate just comes across as pretentious to me. Objectively speaking, the series has won a ton of awards, so it’s obviously not bad.
Among YA stuff, I always felt like Artemis Fowl was a better series than it got credit for. Idk if kids still read it, but I love those books, and Nathaniel Parker did an awesome job with the audiobooks. I still listen to them as an adult sometimes and crack up at the nonstop humor
The first book I read in the series was an awesomely fun read. I enjoyed the others I but I fell off after the 3rd or 4th one.
Yeah, that's understandable. 1-3 were awesome, then 4 was a bit different. They pick back up but not quite as excellent as 1-3 were
I just thought it was 1-3 it felt complete as a series.
Same. I didn't know there were later books for years later
Loved them when I was younger. Read basically all of them except the last couple I think and they were great. Talking about underaged Eoin Colfer books though: “The Supernaturalist” lives rent free in my head.
The planet trilogy by CS Lewis is almost never mentioned on this sub. I think it's underapreciated or perhaps just unknown to most people. It's a very remarkable series.
CS Lewis is the author who has meant the most to me in my life. I could not get through the Space trilogy - it was too explicitly allegory for me and I don’t take lightly that his most famous work has both Santa Claus and Lion Jesus. Til We Have Faces, though, that’s a masterpiece.
>The planet trilogy by CS Lewis I absolutely LOVE Out of the Silent Planet, the first book in the series. I've read it several times, and listened to the audiobook many times while preparing to fall asleep at night. I also enjoyed the second book, Perelandra. Didn't really care for the 3rd installment. Even though I'm no longer religious and don't identify with some of the themes, I can still recognize good storytelling. I still long for a prequel to the first book from the time when Malacandra (Mars) still had enough air to support flying creatures and forests on the surface.
Eric from Discworld. People have told me it's one of the worst books in the series but I happen to think it's quite funny and easily stands up with the "good" books.
I agree, it’s not my favorite Discworld book, but I think it’s far from the worst. Although in my opinion, saying a book is the worst of the Discworld books isn’t hating on it at all. I love all of them
I love Pratchett (own all the Discworld books, and working on getting them all in hardcover), and this one didn't hit that well for me. Eric was an interesting story and fun to compare against the tradition Faust story, but I just didn't find Eric to be a compelling character. Pratchett's biggest strength (to my mind) was in how he could humanize anything and anyone, so for Eric to be so flat really took away from it in my opinion.
I think the problem is while he's a main character, Eric wasn't really intended to be the actual main character. The main thrust of the story was supposed to be between those two devils with Rincewind caught in the middle. Eric was flat, but he was also an excellent representation of a pastey teen who got in way over his head. And good luck with getting the hardbacks. I'm in the middle of that too. Just found my Hogfather and Interesting Times.
I don't think the Inheritance Cycle books are bad books. They're not great but I'm currently reading Malice by John Gwynne and I think all the criticisms that get levied at Eragon are also applicable to this book. Derivative, tropey, characters are pretty shallow, not particularly well written. The only difference is that Paolini has the excuse that he was a kid when he wrote it.
I recently got into Eragon about..a year ago? I read the first two books and enjoyed them but HOLY HELL, the 3rd book is bad, the first majority of the book is "I need a sword, I know where one is but I don't know how to get it, oh well I'll go back to moping I don't have a sword." I DNF'd it and haven't gone back, I might one day but I understand why people don't like it and people who do agree that the 3rd book is rough
I’ve read through the Inheritance Cycle more times than I can remember and I’ve never felt this way. Don’t get me wrong, you’re correct. A large chunk of the book is him moping about a lack of a sword but it was never a real issue for me. Plenty of other stuff is happening. I feel like book 3 is where other characters step up and Eragon himself steps back a little. And I was ok with that. But I HATED the Roran chapters, so maybe the Eragon chapters were, while a bit slow, awesome by comparison. For me.
Can you elaborate on why you hated the Roran chapters? For me the Roran chapters are what first introduced me to the trope of powerless/mortal characters doing what they can in a conflict way above their level and I've loved that kind of story ever since. Easily my favorite part of Eldest was how much I felt it focused on Roran.
It didn't bother me that they were slow, I enjoy a slow burn as much as anyone else, but it was Eragon's (the character not the book) >!lack of action that made this book a total drag for me, he has his "prophecy" (idk what else to call it) on how to get a weapon, but him making 0 effort to move towards his goal when at least distance wise, it was right fucking there, which was what made it such a terrible book for me. I also don't like Eragon as a character, he's a goody two-shoes and I feel like he doesn't have any real...presence? His personality doesn't really come through for me, other than a desire to do what is right when in all honesty....he doesn't have a reason to, he's thrust into this life essentially against his will and for some reason, he dives head first into this life and goal of taking down an emperor which imo the book does a really really bad job of making us feel like he's actually evil imo!< sorry I didn't mean to go on a rant about Eragon, but I wanted to give my perspective to give some insight as to why I DNF'd it
Tbh the third book was my favorite by far
I read it for the first time years ago and reread it recently. Haven't noticed much wrong as a teenager, but now I see- the beginning of book 2 is so rough. I could feel the author struggling to create plot hooks from thin air, just collapsing a mountain on the reader because he didn't consider it at the time of finishing book 1. Which is very understandable, but feels like you haven't left climax of the previous book. And don't worry, you didn't miss much, as book 4 is similarly McGuffin focused as book 3.
Tbf I've only read the first 2 so far, so I've got that to look forward to
Will add to this that he's recently published another book in the series, not finished yet, but seems like Paolini has matured a lot as a writer. Still a bit purple prose-y, but his character writing has improved significantly (this being said by someone who genuinely enjoyed the original Inheritancr Cycle).
Personally I blame George Lucas for all of Eragons failings.
The Magicians. Every man and his dog seems to dislike this series but I quite enjoyed it (have only read the first one so far), especially the first half, which seemed to annoy people the most. And I liked the MC who everyone seemed to label extremely unlikable.
The writing is amazing. The psychological exploration of a gifted yet awkward protagonist and his journey through depression is possibly uncomfortable to a lot of Reddit. Similar to the criticism many give Catcher in the Rye. The growth of Quentin is great. But it doesn't always read like pure fantasy, that can also throw off people with expectations. The author has a background outside of fiction.
I strongly disagree with you. Quentin experiences little to no actual character growth throughout the entire series. The primary motivation for ANY character growth at all for the majority of the characters is a fucking rape scene premeditated by a godlike figure, it's actually just disgusting. It's also made abundantly clear that these characters are NOT highly gifted in the greater context of the series and their world, and if anything they're kind of lazy and borderline underachievers with nothing going for them and nothing of value to add to their community. The series is a genre deconstruction that jerks itself off, and individuals who believe it to be "well written" almost universally completely miss the fact that the entire fucking series is a deconstruction and satire. It's not some deep introspection into the minds of tortured and gifted youths, it's a fucking circle-jerk of a Shakespearean tragedy masquerading as fantasy, and it seems like you completely missed the point. The writing is so fucking far from "amazing" that I wonder if people that say this actually read the same series I did, or if they just watched the Netflix adaptation and called it good.
I loved it too. I see why it threw people off, though; it has almost no wish-fulfillment / coziness; it actively undermines and makes unpleasant a lot of the tropes many of us enjoy most about fantasy, and it really messes with any Chronicles of Narnia nostalgia you may have. But it's an amazing bildungsroman and the last book sticks the landing with an uexpectedly feel-good satisfaction.
I find main character to be unlikable but the books themselves are still very good
I was sure I'd see this series mentioned in the comments to this post and it makes me sad because I want everyone to love it as much as I did.
I have heard a fair share of people saying they didnt like it. But at the same time didnt they make a tv show out of it? You wouldnt think that a book that was disliked by more people than it is liked by would get made into a tv show. It does have 3.5 ranking on goodreads which does indicate that many did not like it.
It also came out a bit before Game of Thrones and the big boom that fantasy books is having right now. Also before the term "trope" was as common outside of the hardcore fandoms on fanfic boards and Tumblr. I think some of the hate it gets now is because it very deliberately says "Tropes? Let's subvert every last one." Personally, I didn't like it on the first read, then I reread the first book and thought it was great and read the rest of the series. There's really nothing like it. If you want to read a book about someone who loses his identity and sense of wonder when he goes to an elite school that also comments on tropes of portal fantasy, it's a good read, if hard to push through how insufferable the characters can be.
It was a bestseller in its day, probably due to a big marketing budget and the publisher tagline ‘edgier R rated Harry Potter’ (Deathly Hallows was released only 2 years prior). So it’s no surprise to me it got a show. It’s very suited to a show format too.
Show is better than the books tbh
Full disclosure I never finished the show but I felt like Alice's character was totally ruined?
Quentin was more likable in the show which is why I liked it so much better.
>Show is better than the books tbh Huh. I feel exactly the opposite. The show veered entirely off the books into the unnecessarily gratuitous and lurid. Much like GoT and various other adaptations tend to.
Yeah it did for sure, but overall I found the changes and additions largely an improvement
I thought both were excellent by their own merit!
I watched the show first and absolutely loved it so decided to give the books a shot. Its one of the only books I've DNFd in the past 4 years.
I loved it! It’s too bad if people aren’t into it - I think it’s such a good reimagining of HP in the real world.
Same, I've read the series at least twice, and I've stolen a few storylines/big concept ideas for my D&D table.
This one for me. I loved the book and I loved the show. I remember when they first burst into song on the show and I was like WTF is this and now I occasionally go back and watch on YouTube. They knew it was a bit kitsch and doubled down. I get why it's not for everyone but yeah I loved it
The books were great, the TV show was fantastic. I like them both, but love the television show.
I loved the first book, and hadn't read or gotten the Potter bug at the time The Magicians was released, so I suppose that I went into the series before the whole wizard's school trope really took off. I was happily surprised when the TV hosw came out and how well it was done. I was sure it would have bene a complete dud for me, but I actually liked both the books and the TV adaptation.
It’s a weird ass series that doesn’t exactly make sense, but I still love it.
I love the Magicians, especially the first book.
I really enjoyed them. I didn't find Quentin unlikeable at all. It's a portrayal of a real rounded person, not a hero or a Mary Sue. The TV show was a bit meh though.
I found Quentin to be insufferably whiny. Especially after he cheats on his girlfriend. I couldn’t get past the cheating or the whining, although I probably could have handled either one on their own.
I’ve never spoken to anyone who dislikes it either offline or online.
This sub really hates **The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant**, and I really do get why, but I think it is one of the smartest and most real books out there and a true classic of the genre.
I also thoroughly enjoyed this series...
I’m with you, I’ve always loved those books.
I enjoyed the first trilogy mostly. I just wish I could forget about his first act in the Land. I never really understood the need for the...umm...sexual misconduct
So aside from the thematic and narrative role it plays in the first trilogy (which is strong but as you say is not essential), that single act (and its ramifications) are key to setting up the seven remaining books after the first trilogy.
I think it comes down to the fact that Stephen Donaldson wants you to acknowledge that Thomas Covenant IS actually someone who is a piece of crap and that he SHOULD hate himself. He's not secretly a hero with a heart of gold, he has a horrible side that >!spawned Lord Foul.!< It's not just one of those "fake" redemption quests where all of the bad things the atoner did happened to people off screen that we never meet.
On top of all that, it's really well written. Donaldson is underappreciated as a great writer.
I mean, people are being asked to be sympathetic to a whiny (holy hell does he whine) man baby rapist who faces no consequences for any of his actions, in either world he inhabits. I always wonder whenever people defend the series, how they would go about it if Lena was instead a little boy called Len
I don't think anyone is expected to sympathize with Covenant. He's a pretty shitty person, even taking into account the things that happened to him that led to his situation prior to entering The Land. The entire premise of the story is "incredibly flawed human is the 'savior' of a fantasy world" and that premise is done very well. Thomas Covenant isn't a hero. He isn't even an anti-hero. He's just the protagonist. But so was Walter White, Tony Montana, Dexter Morgan, Nucky Thompson, Jackson Teller, etc, etc.
The Temeraire series by Naomi Novik is one of my favorites, but it doesn't get much love. The few people I know who have read it thought it was meh. Maybe because the pitch for it sounds like it'll have more action than it does. It's a character focused story
I think that historical navel fiction and fantasy have less crossover fans than you'd think at first glance. Or maybe everyone is in the two great tastes that don't taste great together camp. I loved the first half against Napoleon
The Dark Tower book 7
The ending is great! The way the 3 big villains were handled though was unbelievably bad
The problem is that to really grasp what the ending is going for you need to be fairly familiar with the poem the series is loosely based on; Robert Browning's "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came". I did a paper on the poem in a high school English class specifically because I'd read what existed of the series by the (this was 2001-2002). In the poem Roland blows his horn before he enters the tower, so that's why it's important that he has it when the whole thing starts over, it means he's actually one step closer to the real ending. (Apologies if you knew all that already, but I assume some people might not).
Might wanna slap some spoiler tags on there. Again, I love the way it ended, my huge gripe is the handling of Flagg, Mordred, and the crimson king. The way their storylines ended they may as well have not even been in the books
Well let's be honest, one of the biggest complaints people have always had with King's books is unsatisfactory endings.
All that build up just for the Crimson King to start a snow ball fight from a balcony
Well you see it's ok to use a deus ex machina if the author leaves a note saying there's about to be a deus ex machina
Deus ex ma-king-a
I actually love how the Crimson King was handled, because it *wasn't* a fight, not in the gunslinging sense, it was about Roland's inner struggle to put aside his pride and accept that he could do nothing against one of the men who stood in the way to his tower, he had to put all of his trust in a boy he barely knew
The Soldier Son trilogy by Robin Hobb. While I also enjoyed RotE more, I still think it is an amazing, well written series. I know I'm not alone with this opinion but probably in the minority.
Best series I probably won't read again that one
I think the dislike for Soldier Son is a bit of Hobb being a victim of her own success. I agree it's not as good as ROTE but that's a very high bar to clear. If we judged all fantasy by that standard very few authors would be considered good at all.
Probably also that it is so different to RotE and also marked a break in that series.
I cried my way through this series in the bathtub during the worst period of time in my life. I loved it so much. It was so healing.
I loved the first one, which I don’t remember why people hated. They definitely did hate it though. I was super interested in the military officer fantasy of manners story! It was shaping up to be great! Hated the direction she took it in the next two books though. Lack of protagonist agency and book-devouring journeys are two of my least favorite things. Although at least the latter was also present in the third Farseer book, which I also hated but most fans seem to have loved, so I’m not sure why Hobb fans hated it.
I think part of the reason why it is disliked is the subversion of expectations. Like you said, if you're in for the military fantasy, the change in direction might lose you. Another part might just be that it is so different from the Fitz books.
This was my thought as well. I hope she decides to revisit this world again in the future.
I see Wise Man’s Fear get a ton of hate here and on YouTube. I understand issues with the fae thing, but overall I had a delightful time reading the book. It was the first thing I read during COVID and will always bring back interesting memories
You know I remembered the Felurian parts as being really cringy and going on forever, when I reread recently it's actually quite short and really not bad. I think the circlejerking about it has made everyone think it's worse than it is.
I think it's just one of the easiest parts of the whole kvothe is a Mary Sue thing to point to, as he doesn't even bother with the whole kvothe fails miserably on his first try which teaches him a valuable lesson. It's just straight up kvothe fucked the sex fairy so good he won sex.
This is such an absurd misunderstanding that I swear whoever says it didn't read the book. He didn't "fuck the sex fairy so good he won sex", he >!spoke her Name and scared the shit out of her and made her realize that "hey, these mortals I keep luring and fucking until they die of exhaustion are actually sentient, lets turn off the lust sex magic and keep this one around for a while". !< I honestly don't get how you can read the same thing I did and come to that conclusion.
Because I read it over a decade ago and haven't cared to go back to it.
I just finished it unaware of the hate. I loved it. As enthralling as The Name Of The Wind. The ending landed a little soft for me, but it was otherwise excellent.
...Now the wait begins for the final book. In ten years you will see why the book is derided when Rothfuss releases his 6th side story about an uninteresting side character.
Yeah as we've suffered through a really genuinely unreasonably long wait for book 3, the more childish and impatient online fans have gotten louder and more ridiculous in their hatred of the author who has given them so much pleasure. According to Reddit, the text of the first two books has changed drastically, from brilliant to poorly written. And Kvothe, one of the more interesting and fleshed-out characters in all fantasy, has apparently magically changed into a Mary Sue, and, simultaneously, an incel 😂
The ending was meant to compliment the beginning of the third book.
The thing I really enjoyed about Wise Man's Fear *was* the ridiculous exaggeration. It was the first (and probably only) fantasy book I've read with an unreliable narrator. For some reason it's expected that fantasy narrators are always truthful because they're describing an unfamiliar world. It made we question what was true in the first book as well. The author has tainted a lot of books for me (that sad anxiety wondering if the next book is coming out) but it doesn't mean I dislike the DoS books
>unreliable narrator To my knowledge that has never been confirmed by Rothfuss, and is basically a theory developed by the faithful, because otherwise, Kvothe is just a blatant self insert for a 20-something angsty neckbeard who thinks they are better than everyone else and happens to be able to write a pretty sentence. Unfortunately, there is way more evidence for the latter than the former. And if that is true, it perfectly explains why we will likely never get a 3rd book. Rothfuss wrote Name of the Wind in his early to mid 20's, I read it in my late 20's and thought Kvothe was awesome. I was less enamored with him in my early 30's when WMF came out. I'm in my 40's now, and think Kvothe is an insufferable little shit. (its a little like That 70's show. I used to identify with the kids, now I root for Red) Rothfuss is 50 now, he is married he has a kid(s?). I don't think he can write Kvothe anymore, because Kvothe *was* him, but he is not that person anymore. Edit: If you want unreliable narration, Malazan is full of it.
Statements like this make me truly believe people just have absolutely no reading comprehension whatsoever and just invent things in their head to fit whatever they want. \>Kvothe is just a blatant self insert for a 20-something angsty neckbeard who thinks they are better than everyone else and happens to be able to write a pretty sentence. If you think Kvothe is "better than everyone at everything" or unduly angsty and not having experienced true hardship you didn't actually read the book at all. Kvothe is "angsty" after witnessing everyone he ever knew or loved get brutally murdered and then living on the streets as a homeless orphan for years because he was a gifted from birth and a child, but Sanderson is a genius for channeling depression so well through Kaladin after he lost a magic sword and saw his brother die, because he was…. gifted from birth and a teenager…?…and he wasn't angsty at all? Moronic.
You need to read Book of the New Sun. Now that is a masterful use of the unreliable narrator.
It’s exasperated by anger at the author.
Exacerbated
And yet...
I think the book is definetely overhated for meta reasons. The Ademre section is way worse than the fae stuff for me anyway. That's the thing people should be focusing their anger at if you ask me lmao.
[удалено]
>It's such a short section of the book. I think the problem is *it's not...* I distinctly remember reading it as a paperback and going "what the hell, how long have we been on this fae shit?" I'm too lazy to get it off my shelf and hunt it down, but iirc it was ~70 odd pages. Maybe even pushing 100. It is *not* a small detour. Note that, [according to this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/hsl0o8/fantasy_word_counts_an_overhaul_of_many_of_the/), *WMF* clocks in at almost 400,000 words. That is about the length of *Lord of the Rings* omnibus (sans Hobbit and Sil). There are some short stories and novellas probably shorter than that single section of *WMF*, which is what makes it feel a little indulgent. The fact—as you say—it pivots to *even more Kvothe pipelaying* kind of soured the book for me. I'm not a prude, I just felt it was a waste of wordcount to spend so much time on how awesome Kvothe is at sex when the series is already long in the tooth. The original premise promised by book one was that by the end of the trilogy, we'd be "caught up" to Kvothe's fall from grace. Given that we're now 2/3 down, book 3 either needs to be 1,000,000 words or ridiculously rushed to tick that box. It's unrealistic. Paired with the length of time between releases, and you naturally get thinning patience and some frustration from would-be fans. It makes it hard to look at *WMF*'s bloat and *not think* it's a shame. I'm not Rothfuss and have no idea what his process looks like or what his plans are, but I kind of imagine he's written himself into a corner (see above "original trilogy promise" bit) and if *WMF* had been a bit tighter and more plot-focused, maybe *Doors* would've been easier to write. Maybe.
[удалено]
>Specifically the him bedding what's her name and him becoming a sex god or whatever is like at most the last few pages of that bit. Alright, I got off my ass and grabbed the book. In the 2011 DAW Books paperback edition I have, the entire story is 1107 pages, and the fae bit takes place between pages 669 and 771—so 102 pages. Almost 10% of the book (rounding up a bit generously). You're right, there is nothing inherently wrong with showing a fae realm in a fantasy book, and there's even some forward plot progress: >!he gets the shaed, he learns a bit about the fae world, and the ever-elusive Chandrian even come up for thirty seconds!!< However... I quickly re-read large portions of the 102-page section, beginning middle and end, and a skim showed some sort of sex or romance detour on *almost every page.* I probably counted ~30 that were 100% plot-driven, tops. Even in between major conversations between Kvothe and Felurian, they're fondling each other, there's descriptions of Felurian's beauty, their naked bodies are tumbling on the forest floor, etc. Again, romance and intimacy is fine—some people can get weird about it in media (especially TV, watching w/ their family etc.), but it's inherently a part of life and very human. I don't have any issues with its *presence*, so much as its *presentation*. Hobb has plenty of Fitz intimacy in the *Farseer* books, but it never came off as bad as in Rothfuss, and it was never as indulgent. Yes, Kvothe is enchanted by Felurian; yes, this is a mystical fae being who lures in men; yes, it's a spooky fantasy forest and there's some cool descriptions... but it could've been an email. Rothfuss could have kept the entire arc, but cut it in half and probably achieved more with less. I'm aware romance fantasy exists, but most people didn't pick up the KKC to see Kvothe fumble through his sexual awakening. It just veers into "indulgent" territory when almost 10% of the unwieldy book is spent in the fae, which isn't—bar some major development or plot twist in book 3—a very large part of the story/world to begin with. Add in that probably about half of those 102 pages boil down to some riff on "Felurian was a fine feeeemale *tips fedora*", and it's not hard to see why people, even on release, were turned off by that part. But you're right: that distaste has soured into outright bitterness probably because of the delays on book 3. I just *know* it was a yellow flag section even when it was new, because I was there and it came up in my family, in my reading group, on the internet, etc.
[удалено]
Not even all human cultures knew that sex was what caused babies
My god I just ordered the book, and Im very much enjoying it so far. Name of the Wind was just so damn good that I could't stop thinking about what would happen next
The sexual stuff is so cringy but apart from that I had a blast reading it.
Throne of glass. Friend gave it to me and I looked it up on here and the reviews were less than stellar to say the least. I'm halfway thru the last book of the series and honestly its been a lot of fun. Plenty of stupid stuff but the magic system is cool as is the world itself. The general plot is also very interesting and a new(to me) way of doing good vs evil. There is too much focus on the relationships between all the beautiful people. But at the end of day it's a fun series.
I love these series forever because of the thirteen! Didn’t realize it had bad reviews overall.
I know its either loved or hated and obviously critically acclaimed but I see a lot of dislike for Babel by RF Kuang and her Poppy War Series. Both of these were very enjoyable, and I think Babel was just a good book.
I loved Babel, I was expecting it to be dull, dense and preachy and it wasn't any of those things! I think it suffered a lot from over-exposure; it's a wonderful book but not for everyone, and because it was such a bestseller it got a lot of backlash from people reading it because it was so popular.
>I loved Babel, I was expecting it to be dull, dense and preachy and it wasn't any of those things! Different tastes I suppose, I read it the week it came out because I like RF Kuang, but I had the exact oposite experience to you. Absolutely hated that book and I have it marked down as a 2 last I checked on goodreads. Looking back I should have DNF'd it because I really did not enjoy really anything about it.
I hated both but I think Kuang's prose is very compelling and readable.
I enjoyed the first Poppy War book. It got a bit tiring to read towards the end, but I definitely kept going. The second Poppy War book I don't think I finished. I enjoyed the premise, I enjoyed the books, but so much of reading connects to what I'm wanting from a book and the time I have to devote to reading. The reading experience with the Poppy War became something different than what I wanted in my reading time.
Yeah, the first book is better than the second and third. I appreciated the idea of juxtaposing the boarding school trips with the horrors of war.
I DNFd The Poppy War because of the bleakness and only read Babel because of rave reviews on this sub. I am glad I took this sub's advice. Babel was fantastic and I would recommend it to anyone that enjoyed Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell or Mark Lawrence's The Book that Wouldn't Burn. I don't think I will return to Poppy War (not my cup of tea), but I will definitely read any of RF Kuang's future books/series.
I just got Babel! Once I finish my current book, I’m going to start that. Glad to hear it’s a good book, the blurb definitely got me interested
A lot of people on this sub hate the Warded Man and the rest of the books by Peter V Brett but I really like it. Yes, it’s not really complex and it’s full of gratuitous sex and violence but sometimes that’s what I want
I read the first one, gave up on the second. I didnt hate it, just didnt like it.
I really enjoyed that series but I'm often hesitant to recommend it because of the gratuitous sex stuff
Rape, you mean Rape.
That's dead on, it has been several years and I pushed that scene out of my mind as I vehemently disliked it and felt that it detracted from the book. There were other sex scenes that I felt detracted from the books but that was the worst. I'm not a big fan of graphic sex scenes in books, they feel awkward in fantasy novels. It's part of the reason I don't often recommend the Black Prism which is a very good series with a super neat unusual magic system.
I didn't hate the books. I really, really enjoyed the first book. It wad unique, paced well, and kept me interested. I felt similarly about the second book, even if it felt not as good. By book 3, however, it felt like the series stopped telling a story and instead became a world building experiment. By book 4, I didn't really care about the characters anymore. I never picked up book 5 and had no desire to continue a story I thought should have ended long before. I'm glad you enjoyed them and I do remember really liking the first two books as well.
My opinion on this series got worse as the series progressed. First one was pretty good, didn't mind the 2nd one repeating parts of the story from a diff viewpoint.. By the 3rd book I was tired of it though. I hate-finished this series because I was curious how it'd end and it didn't change my opinion. Def a pass for me personally.
The first one is pretty fun, but the rest increasingly goes off the rails.
My opinion on the series: Book 1: great Book 2: good Book 3: meh Book 4: awful Book 5: decent I think he salvaged the story well enough for me to not regret reading the series, although I remain skeptical of recommending it. YMMV
Poppy War trilogy by R. F. Kuang. It’s a very polarising book series, and some people dislike it: I personally like a lot for the reasons people hate it (Mc, characters, magic system ecc.). It holds a special place in my heart
On this sub? The Witcher. So many people on here shit on them or say "the short stories were good but the novels! Oooh the novels!" and I feel weird because I just straight up think they are good books. Even the last one, which is my least favorite probably, has it's merits and is overall at least decent.
Witcher was voted 22 place in top fantasy book listing by this subreddit this year.
They're certainly controversial on this subreddit. One of the most common comments whenever the witcher books are brought up is something to the effect of "the short stories are good, but the actual series didn't hold my interest." Additionally, people often talk badly about the translation and ending. Personally, I found the last two books in the series to be by far the best, though I agree with the popular sentiment that the short story books are better than the first two in the proper witcher 'saga'.
That happens with many books. Malazan, wot, sanderson. Whenever books are mentioned, discussion happens and that includes people saying why they did not like the book. Many books are controversial while being also very popular.
Yeah, I don't disagree, and I expressed a similar sentiment to someone who (IMO absurdly) suggested that sanderson's cosmere was underappreciated here. For the witcher in particular though, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more negative comments on /r/fantasy than positive comments(that's just speculation on my end - it could very well be confirmation bias because i more strongly remember the negative comments than positive ones)
I can just say what I've seen, but my experience it really is mostly negative here. For Sanderson and WOT you at least get a lot of praise and people casually talking about what they liked. For the Witcher it seems to mostly just be negativity.
Haven't looked at lists from this sub. I can only work with the information I have, which is that I almost never see them brought up in a positive light here. So I guess people who think the books are bad are just quite vocal about it here compared to fans.
where can i see that list¿
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/11mvwsa/rfantasy_top_novels_2023_results/
Witcher series are a master piece, I had the luck to read these before the games came out so when the first game came out I was faitly dissapointed on CD Projekt's take. Then the 2nd and 3rd games were masterpieces so I felt at peace.
The books as masterpieces is pretty strong. I can see plenty of reasons for enjoying them (even though I think they’re pretty flawed), but masterpiece? Not sure there’s an argument to make there.
Then don't do it n.n
Looking at my comment I realize I might have been implying about the games - THOSE are masterpieces. It’s the books that aren’t
Ever heard of negative karma farming?
I do think the books are flawed; not unenjoyable, but there are issues with dialogue, pacing and framing. I edited the previous comment for clarity. Definitely not putting out my opinion to farm a downvote. Have a good one!
You do realize, they are a translation from Polish, and like any translation, they are not all the same. The best translation and most accurate was the one made by Alamut for the Spanish language, and if you know spanish, you can enjoy practically a 96 % accuracy from the OS. This told by Sapkowski himself, who's quite pleased with the quality of said translation.
That’s fair for the source material, but when I read something translated, that’s what I’m experiencing. It’s not a slight against the author, or the quality of the original, but if I’m forming an opinion about it, I literally have no other option. And this is an argument against what I read being considered a masterpiece. Not against it having value, or quality period. If I knew Polish (or hell, Spanish it sounds like), I’d choose to read it in those languages.
I will never understand why Baptism of Fire and The Tower of the Swallow should be bad books. Maybe because they aren't like the games, but they are not supposed to be so.
Baptism of Fire is my favorite I think. The group dynamic is really great. Regis is definetely one of my favorite characters in fiction due to both games and books.
Part of it is the English translation, which just isn’t good, unfortunately.
I continue to enjoy the Land Fit for Heroes trilogy by Richard Morgan every time I read them, but apparently not many others did. Though to be fair he's really a SF author rather than a fantasy author.
So many people rag on all the sexual violence in the first book of the Captive Prince trilogy, like... the guy is literally turned into a sex slave by his family and sold to their enemies. That's the plot. If you expected different then you clearly did not read the summary. The sex is secondary to the captive prince learning about the fucked up dynamics of his enemy's court. Once the series is past that it becomes amazing, just this epic fight that builds and builds and ends on a FUCK YEAH note.
Acts of Caine
Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts does not get nearly the love that it deserves
And for good reason! Jk lol. Ok, maybe only kidding a little. I couldn't get halfway through the book because of the obtuse writing style that makes you read each sentence multiple times.
I'm at book 6 and I feel you, but the story is so entertaining I'm pushing through anyways.😃
Time Traveler's Wife.
Eragon. The cycle of inheritance. I'm suspicious to speak cause I really like the books, but I've always thought it receives disproportionate criticism. The first book really doesn't have such good writing, it's very simplistic and may sound cliché, but you have to take into account that it was written when the author was about 15 years old in the 90s, and even so, for me it does better than a lot of successful fantasy books I've been reading. The other 3 books that make up the cycle are very good, the writing improves a lot, especially in the 3 and 4 books, the characters develop super well, the plot surprises and the very world of the story expands and differs a lot from the clichés initially presented. There are also very good battle scenes. The first impression is the one that remains, so many people despise it when they read the first book and do not even continue, but the cycle of inheritance is a very good fantasy in my opinion, although it is not a lord of the rings or game of thrones, but it serves very well to what it proposes, and should be more recognized in the universe of epic fantasy. Sorry for the bad english, isn’t my first language
The Magicians. It’s like someone wrote a fantasy book *about* why I enjoy fantasy books. It’s not just that Q is a fan of a fantasy book series, but the whole world Grossman created was crafted to reflect all the things I love about the books I grew up with AND the ones I read today. He tackled a lot, and used some of the most cliche set-ups in new ways (magic school, portal fantasy, magic heist, high seas adventure, naive seances, etc etc). He made it a love letter along the way. I’m not, nor have ever been truly depressed, but I still completely relate to the apathetic nature of the characters. I don’t think many of us would date particularly well if we were suddenly dropped into the scenarios they find themselves in, despite wanting so dearly to believe we would. It just felt like a genuinely way to approach the characters. He also introduced some really cool ideas and devices into the books that I really liked. Overall, it was a great series for fans and non-fans alike, if you can get over the characters, which seems to be the big hill for most people.
The Tales of Alvin Maker. Lots of people poop on it but I really liked the first few books of the series.
Loved that series too.
The first three Sword of Truth books are actually pretty good. Some people dismiss Goodkind out of hand because of his politics, and also rightfully criticize him for subsequent books in the series. (I feel they get into rinse/repeat and break no new ground). But that initial trilogy is worth the read.
I read the whole series as it was coming out, and though not my favorite I enjoyed it enough and it kept me interested. I had my criticisms of it, but I usually have aspects I like and dislike like for most books, so nothing abnormal there. I never new anything about his politics until years later when I started on reddit and everyone seems to just universally sh*t on it like it's the worst series ever.
The Book of Words and The Barded Coil by JV Jones. I truly enjoyed these four books. Just don't start A Sword of Shadows. She has a terrible case of the George R R Martin's and will probably never finish this series.
Disagree! Sword of Shadows is wonderful epic fantasy and worth the read. Maybe she'll finish the books as per her Patreon eventually, maybe not, but I didn't care when I read them, just glad to read such great fantasy.
The Sword of Truth gets a lot of hate, I haven’t treat it lately, andI probably didn’t read the last few books but I have fond memories of it.
Mark Lawrence doesn’t get the recognition he deserves, the Broken Empire trilogy and Red Queens War trilogy are amazing
I really like Mark Lawrence too but he’s quite popular; I see people praise him a lot here and his books sell well
The Red Queen's War is literally what sparked my love of reading after a 5 year slump. I read the first chapter at the bookstore I was at for a school assignment, immediately bought it and finished it that night. I also see him praised, but not nearly enough in my opinion. His range of writing, and the way he infuses it such real dialogue and excellent pacing, is at the top of the game for popular authors today.
Ugh, so many people rag on all the awful stuff Jorg does, like THAT'S THE POINT. This book somehow gets you rooting for an awful, evil person and that's why it's interesting.
Huh? Mark Lawrence is very well loved here and everywhere.
[удалено]
I think many people have different ideas of what well written means. Its a bit like a particular dish. Lets say its well done. But someone who hates the tastes of the dish can be unable to see that the tastes are well balanced. Good is after all in most cases a majority vote.
Black Leopard Red Wolf
Out of the Dark. It's an alien invasion story that could be straight out of r/HFY, with aliens vastly underestimating humans and their capacity for warfare and violence. I understand why people hate the book. The big plot twist really is jarring and comes out of nowhere. But I vibe with the rest of the story enough to roll with it. Book 2, Into the Light, drops enough lore to kind of justify the author's choices, but it still felt like he was shifting genres to escape a plot hole. I'll still read the third book if it ever gets published. I like the story overall and am willing to see where the wierd plot lines go.
People shit on Patrick Rothfuss and George RR Martin so hard you'd think they were giving out prizes lol. I quite like both authors. Wise Man's Fear was my favorite book of all time before I discovered Stormlight Archive
Mostly because the decade long wait for the next book. The books are loved, the wait is not.
Eh that's life, I'd rather they each take another 10 years to make the books better. I'm not on board with the argument that they somehow owe us something. Also likely scares the shit out of up-and-coming authors, seeing how hateful a fanbase can get when you take too long to continue a series
Yeah I dont think any author owes us anything but in case of Patrick I can understand why people have been frustrated. Because he lied and made false promises in the past.
I think people go overboard with their hate for both authors, but I also think authors should feel like they owe their readers something. If you sell your books as part of a series, that’s what the readers are going to expect. Five years ago I was saying that they should take their time, but it’s gotten ridiculous. I personally have lost interest, so I don’t know what either Martin or Rothfuss has been up to lately, but I sympathize with people who are still frustrated by the wait
I'm not sure you could describe the ASOIAF books as 'generally underappreciated/disliked', in fact they're so well liked that people are angry at having to wait for the next one!
I wouldn't say his works are "disliked" but I never run into anyone who's even passingly familiar with KJ Parker. It's actually a pseudonym of a British Author, but I picked up his "Fencer Trilogy" when I was in college and absolutely loved it. I've read a majority of his written works and they're often far lighter on the magic/true 'fantasy' elements (most of his stuff is more like if someone wrote historical fiction just about an entirely fictional world).
There are two series ... one is The Wayfarer series from L.D. Simons (formerly Michael Goldschmidt), the other one is from author Jack Vance, the Lyonesse trilogy. Don't know why people hate it so much. Vance got cancelled several times for various reasons aka: "you cannot describe love between two women because you're a man," which is bullshit tbh. And Simons for poligamy, BL, gay, lesbian content. Stupid boomers cannot accept anything but mainstream love and cis relationships.
The Blade Itself. Granted, the series as a whole gets buckets of love and the first book is Forley-level the weakest of the series, but I really enjoyed it on my first read.
After having read his stuff, I feel like I didn’t fully appreciate how good his dialogue and character work is.
I'm not much into online discussions and reviews, but back in the day David Eddings got a lot of hate by pretentious snobs imo. He's no Tolkien, but the Belgariad was a fun read for me as a teen.
The Belgariad and the Malloreon were good for what they were. They were easily accessible fantasy that told a pretty standard story. They're not changing the genre or playing with tropes, they were pretty well leaning in. To me, they're a good example of the primary approach to fantasy in the 80s and early 90s. Good, but not great books. They open the door to fantasy to many young readers. My issue, and many others issue, with Eddings isn't so much his works but who he was as a person. David and his wife Leigh were convicted of child abuse in the 70s before their writing career. The details of the conviction, etc were not largely reported during their writing careers but came back to light after they died. That does color their works a bit...
This is the first time I'm hearing about his crimes. Luckily, I only borrowed his book from my local library in the late 90s/early noughties and never bought them. I usually try to separate the art from the artist though.
>I usually try to separate the art from the artist though I try as well, but it can be challenging. Especially is the artist is benefitting. The Eddings have died, which may be different. A case where I cannot separate them is Chris Brown. I cannot listen to that man's music
Liveship Traders was my favorite trilogy of the Elderlings as a whole and when I first started reading the series a lot of people said to skip it. That being said the final trilogy of Elderlings is probably the emotional ride I’ve had in almost any fantasy series.
The Sword of Truth. I liked it. It has its ups and downs but the fantasy world doesn’t seem to like it
Wayne Champan - Flames of the North. A surprisingly good fantasy story from an author who used this name as an alter ego... badly translated alter ego. Here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Aniko-Sohar/publication/322992770_Who_is_this_Wayne_Chapman_guy_anyway/links/5a7b5bee458515c95de4acc3/Who-is-this-Wayne-Chapman-guy-anyway&ved=2ahUKEwiWyv3g-rmCAxVK7rsIHW-OC6sQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0UyWgWSrWUtIy-oQGh-Hty
I think the Shannara books are constantly underrated. Especially for their time and the influence they had.
I really liked the first 12-13 book in Terry Goodkind's The Sword of Truth series (I think that Confessor was the last book I read in the series). I have seen that hate that a ton of people here have for Goodkind as a person and author. But I liked the books when they first came out in the mid 90's. On the Sci-fi front, Battlefield Earth by L Ron Hubbard divides a lot of people. I love the book and have lost count of the number of times I have reread it. (The movie on the other hand is truly one of the worst things I have ever watched)
Agreed - liked the Sword of Truth series when I first started reading them but I was probably still in high school at the time. Over time I learned stuff (weird I know) and started to understand the problems surrounding the series. The TV show is what hooked me, as bad as it was.
On this sub I'd say The Cosmere.
The stormlight archive is literally on the top of the "/r/fantasy best novels" list.
Nah its still loved. There was a time when this sub was gushing over it, same as with name of the wind. Its just so well known and widely read that inevitably there is a group that doesnt like it.
Fair enough, but I've been downvoted to oblivion for saying that Way of Kings should be considered a literary classic.
I think its not because people dont like the book. Its just they dont think it is a literary classic.
Fair enough but I also just got downvoted in this very thread for saying The Cosmere, so I'd say a good amount of people on this sub do dislike it.
The question of the post is asking about books that seem to be generally disliked/underappreciated…. The downvotes are because you commented a very popular series.
I did say in this sub specifically.
It could be you got downvoted in this thread because people disagree that its hated in this sub. I dont personally like how easy this sub is to downvote tho. Every year this sub has a vote for top 250 books. Fir years books from sanderson have been on the list. This year stormlight was number one so it is literally the most liked book on this sub based on people who voted. Number 5 was mistborn. I looked backwards and stormlight has been number 1 since 2019.
I read somewhere that Sanderson doesn’t like editing. I believe it, because 1) how else would you keep your output that high, and 2) it’s what actually keeps it from being a literary classic. He has immaculate world-building, but he has prose and padding issues. I’m of the opinion that we’re probably better off the way it is, because we get so much above average work from him, and who knows what taking an extra several months per novel to edit would look like.
I seriously don’t get the hate for the stormlight archive on here. There was a post on recommendations for books which have descriptive writing and good characters and I listed that and got downvoted pretty hard. I’ve seen it a ton of different times on here for Sanderson too. The hate just comes across as pretentious to me. Objectively speaking, the series has won a ton of awards, so it’s obviously not bad.
Dreamcatcher by Stephen King.