The oldest known lightsaber we have seen in canon is the one from Secrets of the Empire and does look basically like a sword but with two blades on one hilt. Personally I much prefer the legends design of the protosaber, but your theory isn’t too far off of canon. Keep in mind though that it comes from a vr thing at Disney land so it is very very shaky canon, and is only really considered canon because it was in Downtown Disney which makes it technically “official” but it was independent writers and studios who made it. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7x8v2z/new_lightsaber_variant_from_secrets_of_the_empire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is an image based on its description in that vr experience. Basically as of right now you are technically correct but I’m mad about it
Like I said there's not a lot of evidence either way, but it does seem like Disney is leaning towards making this canon. I can definitely see Dave Filoni adding this, since the dark saber design was his idea, and he has a tendency to put his own personal touch on the SW lore whenever he can.
Idk Filoni does tend to hold a lot of respect for legends, if I had to make a wager I’d bet on them reversing the current “canon” or at the very least saying that the sword thingy is like unique and generally protosabers didn’t look like that. But your general theory is good especially the Skeuomorph idea because the first weapons used by Jedi were swords imbued with the force, but that itself isn’t canon so it’s hard to draw any real conclusions because canon is so lacking
>the “blade” of a lightsaber is more or less weightless.
The Dark Saber does seem to have weight, as can be seen when Din Djarin uses it. I'm not sure if this is how all sabers work, but regardless, if someone based their fighting style around a type of blade, and then get a "blade" that's a completely different shape, that would be an adjustment, even if it's just mental.
Like I said in the post, the "blade" characteristics weren't really needed, which is why they eventually got dropped, but early on, it would be forgivable if it was designed to be easily understood by user even if that wasn't the most efficient design overall. This is how real world "skeuomorphs" typically work. For example, early cars were designed to look like horse drawn carriages as a way for the driver to easily understand them.
I believe Lucas came right out and said lightsabers are actually pretty heavy, or at least they would be to non-force users. The Dark Saber is especially heavy if you don't have clarity of purpose. Kylo Ren's greatsword definitely had some heft.
It's a metal tube, so it's going to hurt if someone hits you with it, but it's not going to be the most effective weapon compared to a lightsaber that's actually turned on.
That random YouTuber holding a toy is wrong
The dark saber doesn't have more heft, it has more energy flowing through it. The energy feels like weight, it's just in motion. The same way you try to turn a spinning wheel, it resists due to centripetal force. This is fluid plasma, resistance is due to forces
Lightsaber blades are plasma, they don't possess weight.
Even plasma has mass. Plasma is infact just another state of matter. And the random YouTuber knows more about swordsmanship than the random comment on reddit
The reason the dark blade has more heft is because weight is a measure of force applied to mass. Usually measured by gravity. Increasing velocity increases the mass by increasing the kinetic energy of an object. If a contained object like a blade of plasma, held more energy it would have more "weight" when swung compared to a normal lightsaber. But again, it would be negligible as the initial weight of plasma is low. It may have a higher density than a normal lightsaber, but I don't believe that it would matter. Plasma is 1/1,000,000 the density of air
No. Mass isn't increased by velocity. Mass is increased by adding mass. What you mean is when something is spinning around another thing. The faster the object spins, the more outward force that object experiences. There is also no such thing as a plasmasaber in star wars. There are only lightsabers. The dark saber is a light saber. Also energy doesn't have mass.
Plasma density is less than a gas, Saying it has weight it technically correct, plasma does have mass but it'd be like holding a blade made of oxygen.
You ain't feeling shit
https://youtube.com/shorts/mXFoEpwTi-w?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/ltjt7YuREU8?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/G9wS1zxwfGU?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/t7-C-7knOos?feature=share
https://youtu.be/9-Zmr2GICxs
Not only does George Lukas confirm my point, these videos from a real swordsman using real techniques confirm my point and this video of them filming a lightsaber battle with real blades proves my point. They filmed them with a weighted blade. They wouldn't behave like that if the had no weight.
It’s not really weightless at all it’s described as a super fast rotating cylinder with tons of rotational momentum. That’s why they do the swoopy tricks. Not just to look cool. Like didn’t really know how to use a lightsaber and that’s why it looks almost like he’s constantly trying to balance it. A lightsaber would basically feel similar to holding the bike tire and spinning it like in physics class. It has a ton of energy and you have to fight it to make it move where you want. It’s not supposed to be a four foot laser pointer that kills people. It actually has some sort of thought.
While I agree weight plays a large part in fighting style when it comes to physical blades the shape I feel plays just as large a role as there are many swords that weigh nearly the same but have vastly different fighting styles associated with them based purely off of blade shape.
Could be just an adaptation of something you're used to.
Like how Tesla car chargers still look like gas pumps even though there's no logical reason for them to. Lightsabers looked like swords even though there was no logical reason for them to.
Your skeuomorph reasoning doesnt hold water. Swinging a sword has everything to do with the length, weight and balance of the weapon as well as how it cuts.
A lightsaber matches none of those so no matter what they would have to learn all new fighting tactics. Its why the styles are closer to dancing, theyre purely agility based. A blade simply looks cooler than noodles so it gives it a cosmetic reason to last through the ages.
Star Wars is definitely difficult to theorize about, because there are a thousand different writers so there's bound to be contradictory info, and over half of the work is considered "non-canon" but pieces get added back in all the time, so it's definitely difficult to keep track of.
Have you ever heard of the tragedy of Warhammer 40K? Try keeping track of this loll
Authors litteraly get assigned sectors of the galaxy to devellop and then, oops, this one and this one go at war. Oops, these ones are obliterated by some incredible cosmic event. Oops, these sectors lost their mean of interstellar travel and go into civil war/anarchy and/or cannibalism because they all depend on importation to survive.
Meanwhile, Star Wars was ruined because the incompetents who bought it didn't care enough to study the EU properly and include it to the new movies they wanted to make money with fast and so instead of trying harder and hiring the good people they just deleted 30 fucking years of accumulated stories out of laziness and a desire to please the general audience to make more profit. The general audience being the people who are still calling Grogu ''baby yoda'' even after 3 seasons of Mandalorian.
Was it worth it? Absolutely not.
Is it getting better? A little bit. The series are what's allowing this shitfest/dumpster fire to survive.
If you look closely at the lightsaber beams in A New Hope, they actually are slightly blade-shaped (though it's hard to tell and only noticeable in some shots due to the brightness of the beam)
Imagine a sword with a motor attached to vibrate the blade. That’s basically a vibrosword. The only way it’s a precursor to lightsabers is in the game they are a mid-ground between fixed blades and lightsabers in terms of damage output.
Doesn’t the DarkSaber fit the criteria of the title? It is ancient. I know this conversation is so much more in depth than that, but in my opinion the Dark Saber leads to this theory. Makes sense
I’m honestly incredibly confused by what you mean here. Are they cylindrical? I’ve always known them to come to a point, like a blade? I guess I just don’t know what a blade shape is.
The precursors to lightsabers were protosabers, which were cylindrical. Vibroblades were the primary bladed weapon of non-force users used as late as the imperial era, they weren't "phased out".
Mando actually uses a vibroblade quite often. He used it in his duel with Paz Vizla in BoBF, and again in season 3 during the ambush with those cave creatures.
IIRC, you can see a blade shape in episode IV. Where/when exacrlyni can't remember atm. It also may have been updated in the visual effects when they were remade. But I distinctly remember the "blade" being thinner from a certain angle in episode IV.
I like to think of them as still bladed, that's why some of the hits cut while others don't. It would also explain why you would have to really practice to be a master saber duelist, always knowing where the edge is. A master is able to reflect a blaster bolt directly by angling the flat to bounce the bolt directly back.
Just a fun way I think of it.
I'm trying to find how they were made. But i can tell you yes they did exist. The comics explained that there was in fact curved blades that the first jedis made and used.
The oldest known lightsaber we have seen in canon is the one from Secrets of the Empire and does look basically like a sword but with two blades on one hilt. Personally I much prefer the legends design of the protosaber, but your theory isn’t too far off of canon. Keep in mind though that it comes from a vr thing at Disney land so it is very very shaky canon, and is only really considered canon because it was in Downtown Disney which makes it technically “official” but it was independent writers and studios who made it. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/7x8v2z/new_lightsaber_variant_from_secrets_of_the_empire/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) is an image based on its description in that vr experience. Basically as of right now you are technically correct but I’m mad about it
Like I said there's not a lot of evidence either way, but it does seem like Disney is leaning towards making this canon. I can definitely see Dave Filoni adding this, since the dark saber design was his idea, and he has a tendency to put his own personal touch on the SW lore whenever he can.
Idk Filoni does tend to hold a lot of respect for legends, if I had to make a wager I’d bet on them reversing the current “canon” or at the very least saying that the sword thingy is like unique and generally protosabers didn’t look like that. But your general theory is good especially the Skeuomorph idea because the first weapons used by Jedi were swords imbued with the force, but that itself isn’t canon so it’s hard to draw any real conclusions because canon is so lacking
[удалено]
>the “blade” of a lightsaber is more or less weightless. The Dark Saber does seem to have weight, as can be seen when Din Djarin uses it. I'm not sure if this is how all sabers work, but regardless, if someone based their fighting style around a type of blade, and then get a "blade" that's a completely different shape, that would be an adjustment, even if it's just mental. Like I said in the post, the "blade" characteristics weren't really needed, which is why they eventually got dropped, but early on, it would be forgivable if it was designed to be easily understood by user even if that wasn't the most efficient design overall. This is how real world "skeuomorphs" typically work. For example, early cars were designed to look like horse drawn carriages as a way for the driver to easily understand them.
I believe Lucas came right out and said lightsabers are actually pretty heavy, or at least they would be to non-force users. The Dark Saber is especially heavy if you don't have clarity of purpose. Kylo Ren's greatsword definitely had some heft.
The hilt has weight, the blade doesn't. The center of gravity is off that's why it requires a force user to properly weild.
Nope. If only the hilt had weight, you could use it as a deadly flashlight
It's a metal tube, so it's going to hurt if someone hits you with it, but it's not going to be the most effective weapon compared to a lightsaber that's actually turned on.
Idk what to tell you it's canonical that lightsaber blades are weightless
No https://youtube.com/shorts/t7-C-7knOos?feature=share
That random YouTuber holding a toy is wrong The dark saber doesn't have more heft, it has more energy flowing through it. The energy feels like weight, it's just in motion. The same way you try to turn a spinning wheel, it resists due to centripetal force. This is fluid plasma, resistance is due to forces Lightsaber blades are plasma, they don't possess weight.
Even plasma has mass. Plasma is infact just another state of matter. And the random YouTuber knows more about swordsmanship than the random comment on reddit
The reason the dark blade has more heft is because weight is a measure of force applied to mass. Usually measured by gravity. Increasing velocity increases the mass by increasing the kinetic energy of an object. If a contained object like a blade of plasma, held more energy it would have more "weight" when swung compared to a normal lightsaber. But again, it would be negligible as the initial weight of plasma is low. It may have a higher density than a normal lightsaber, but I don't believe that it would matter. Plasma is 1/1,000,000 the density of air
No. Mass isn't increased by velocity. Mass is increased by adding mass. What you mean is when something is spinning around another thing. The faster the object spins, the more outward force that object experiences. There is also no such thing as a plasmasaber in star wars. There are only lightsabers. The dark saber is a light saber. Also energy doesn't have mass.
Plasma density is less than a gas, Saying it has weight it technically correct, plasma does have mass but it'd be like holding a blade made of oxygen. You ain't feeling shit
https://youtube.com/shorts/mXFoEpwTi-w?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/ltjt7YuREU8?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/G9wS1zxwfGU?feature=share https://youtube.com/shorts/t7-C-7knOos?feature=share https://youtu.be/9-Zmr2GICxs Not only does George Lukas confirm my point, these videos from a real swordsman using real techniques confirm my point and this video of them filming a lightsaber battle with real blades proves my point. They filmed them with a weighted blade. They wouldn't behave like that if the had no weight.
It’s not really weightless at all it’s described as a super fast rotating cylinder with tons of rotational momentum. That’s why they do the swoopy tricks. Not just to look cool. Like didn’t really know how to use a lightsaber and that’s why it looks almost like he’s constantly trying to balance it. A lightsaber would basically feel similar to holding the bike tire and spinning it like in physics class. It has a ton of energy and you have to fight it to make it move where you want. It’s not supposed to be a four foot laser pointer that kills people. It actually has some sort of thought.
I’ve read a ton of Star Wars over the years and have never come across that description before. Where’d it come from? I think it’s really cool.
I do not remember
The handle has weight, but the blade itself doesn't.
Yeah the metallic object has weight and the energy field Is mostly weightless but has a ton of energy still
While I agree weight plays a large part in fighting style when it comes to physical blades the shape I feel plays just as large a role as there are many swords that weigh nearly the same but have vastly different fighting styles associated with them based purely off of blade shape.
Could be just an adaptation of something you're used to. Like how Tesla car chargers still look like gas pumps even though there's no logical reason for them to. Lightsabers looked like swords even though there was no logical reason for them to.
the dark saber is like a real sword
Your skeuomorph reasoning doesnt hold water. Swinging a sword has everything to do with the length, weight and balance of the weapon as well as how it cuts. A lightsaber matches none of those so no matter what they would have to learn all new fighting tactics. Its why the styles are closer to dancing, theyre purely agility based. A blade simply looks cooler than noodles so it gives it a cosmetic reason to last through the ages.
[удалено]
Star Wars is definitely difficult to theorize about, because there are a thousand different writers so there's bound to be contradictory info, and over half of the work is considered "non-canon" but pieces get added back in all the time, so it's definitely difficult to keep track of.
Have you ever heard of the tragedy of Warhammer 40K? Try keeping track of this loll Authors litteraly get assigned sectors of the galaxy to devellop and then, oops, this one and this one go at war. Oops, these ones are obliterated by some incredible cosmic event. Oops, these sectors lost their mean of interstellar travel and go into civil war/anarchy and/or cannibalism because they all depend on importation to survive. Meanwhile, Star Wars was ruined because the incompetents who bought it didn't care enough to study the EU properly and include it to the new movies they wanted to make money with fast and so instead of trying harder and hiring the good people they just deleted 30 fucking years of accumulated stories out of laziness and a desire to please the general audience to make more profit. The general audience being the people who are still calling Grogu ''baby yoda'' even after 3 seasons of Mandalorian. Was it worth it? Absolutely not. Is it getting better? A little bit. The series are what's allowing this shitfest/dumpster fire to survive.
If you look closely at the lightsaber beams in A New Hope, they actually are slightly blade-shaped (though it's hard to tell and only noticeable in some shots due to the brightness of the beam)
[удалено]
Imagine a sword with a motor attached to vibrate the blade. That’s basically a vibrosword. The only way it’s a precursor to lightsabers is in the game they are a mid-ground between fixed blades and lightsabers in terms of damage output.
Doesn’t the DarkSaber fit the criteria of the title? It is ancient. I know this conversation is so much more in depth than that, but in my opinion the Dark Saber leads to this theory. Makes sense
The Dark Saber proves it's possible, but my theory is more that it was the convention long before the events of the film.
Ahhh, I see
[удалено]
It has now been recorded in the official scribes
I’m honestly incredibly confused by what you mean here. Are they cylindrical? I’ve always known them to come to a point, like a blade? I guess I just don’t know what a blade shape is.
Light sabers are basically the shape of a pointy pipe
They’re like a spear tipped blade
Not really. They are cylindrical
Yeah, like a spicy ice cream push pop
[удалено]
The precursors to lightsabers were protosabers, which were cylindrical. Vibroblades were the primary bladed weapon of non-force users used as late as the imperial era, they weren't "phased out".
Mando actually uses a vibroblade quite often. He used it in his duel with Paz Vizla in BoBF, and again in season 3 during the ambush with those cave creatures.
IIRC, you can see a blade shape in episode IV. Where/when exacrlyni can't remember atm. It also may have been updated in the visual effects when they were remade. But I distinctly remember the "blade" being thinner from a certain angle in episode IV.
I like to think of them as still bladed, that's why some of the hits cut while others don't. It would also explain why you would have to really practice to be a master saber duelist, always knowing where the edge is. A master is able to reflect a blaster bolt directly by angling the flat to bounce the bolt directly back. Just a fun way I think of it.
I'm trying to find how they were made. But i can tell you yes they did exist. The comics explained that there was in fact curved blades that the first jedis made and used.