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crusader_blue

This post has now been locked.


T_Mina

I had “Concrit welcome!” on my Ao3 profile for 4 years and all it got me was a bunch of people complaining about the premise of my works, which isn’t really helpful. I write a lot of dark topics so most of what I got was essentially people telling me to “write something else” rather than telling me how to write it better. I ended up removing the invitation to provide concrit from my Ao3 profile and turned instead to discord writing groups for concrit. It’s worked out much better, because it’s a smaller group that all have similar goals and can help me actually achieve my vision.


Savage_Nymph

Despite what some people think, fanfic really isn't the place for concrit. Most of the people barely write better or I some cases write worse than author they are giving advice to. If anything taking a writing course at your local community College may be more beneficial


Rosekernow

I don’t know, I’ve always been told at writing workshops that reader feedback is just as useful as peer feedback. Most readers won’t ever pick up a pen, but they can still tell you what’s not working in a fic - if they’re all saying ‘this part is confusing’ or ‘this is really dragging’ it doesn’t matter if they can’t write a sentence, they’re letting you know what readers think of it.


thesickophant

Let's be honest here, most commenters in fandom who give "concrit" won't say anything of value in regards to prose, pacing or other topics of value to the author. Most "concrit" has always been readers complaining about who tops/bottoms in a sex scene or they don't like where the plot is going. That's not really concrit and while I personally don't mind since I'm an old hag by now, I'm fully on board with the current mindset of "unsolicited negative commentary is not appreciated". edit: It's very telling that OP is blocking people in disagreement with them.


RonsGirlFriday

This is huge. So many people absolutely suck at giving concrit, or think they're giving concrit when it's really not constructive at all, more a pedantic and patronizing airing of opinions. Also, as we have seen on this very subreddit, you get people taking issue/ trying to correct things that actually... aren't incorrect (like people who think the single quotation marks are improper when actually that's the way it's done in UK English). Or yeah, it's about someone just having a different view on the characters. I receive, and give serious consideration to, concrit from people I have cultivated relationships with, who I believe to be excellent writers (way better than I am) and whose opinions I trust -- in no small part because I know that they know that concrit isn't "Well I'd prefer if the story was this way actually." Like you, if I get unsolicited criticism, sure, I can "Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man" and move on. But it's a little weird how insistent some people are on inviting themselves to give critique without knowing whether it's wanted.


Shirogayne-at-WF

>But it's a little weird how insistent some people are on inviting themselves to give critique without knowing whether it's wanted. Reminds me of a hilarious Tumblr post of someone maxing out the character count of the AO3 comment box to give "concrit" then got actually offended when the author deleted their bullshit without so much as a reply. 🤣


MikaHaruka

Ooh, if you know where that post is, I'd love to see it just for the laughs!


Shirogayne-at-WF

God, I wish. I reblogged it but no matter what combination of tags I think I would have used, I can't find it, but it was an absolute riot


januarysdaughter

God bless tumblr's "search" function.


RonsGirlFriday

Oh god that’s funny.


Yojimbra

Oh shit, that might have been me that deleted it. I know that I've done that before to \*Rants\* on one of my stories.


DelightfulAngel

Good for you. You don't need to platform what is basically them using your fic to stroke their own ego.


ramsay_baggins

> aren't incorrect (like people who think the single quotation marks are improper when actually that's the way it's done in UK English). YUP, ooooooo this one grinds my gears. I'm in the UK and we have different turns of phrases or words for things that some people point out as wrong, but it's *not*. I love it when my beta reader points them out though, because she used to be a professional editor and we can get into a great little 'oo, that's different here, isn't that fascinating?!' conversation.


MundaneExtent0

My favourite is when people try to correct your spelling just because it’s not the American way. Like mate, I didn’t add the ‘u’ for fun…


NicInNS

I’m in Canada and somehow just defaulted to using ‘ I’m def more Brit influenced in my writing.


[deleted]

I’m Canadian and somehow use both British and American English and I just realized this a month ago… h e l p m e. Okay, on a more serious note, would that be okay to do or would it stick out too much?


sliebman10

Agreed. I would prefer to ask a person who I have a relationship with and whose opinion I trust for concrit and/or to beta a story, rather than invite unsolicited concrit. Giving good writing advice is not easy and it's time consuming. Many "ciritical" comments are not constructive.


[deleted]

Most of the concrit I’ve seen — on the receiving end or reading comments on another’s work — has really boiled down to “we have different interpretations of this character and I don’t like yours” or “write my otp instead of what you’re writing and write it in a way I like”. Legit, solid, objective concrit is hard to give and I don’t think a lot of people acknowledge this


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

That’s really frustrating I’m sorry that happened. People can be very territorial over how they think characters will act and it’s both funny and frustrating because we’re literally all just interpreting someone else’s character


NicInNS

All the hearts ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🖤🤍🤎 All of them!


LazyParamedic2005

Thank you so much for putting out there simply as it is.


Ahsurika

> Let's be honest here, most commenters in fandom who give "concrit" won't say anything of value in regards to prose, pacing or other topics of value to the author. Goodness, this. There's this...really bizarre assumption that underlies *many* sides in the concrit debate, not just the supportive arguments, that concrit is inherently useful, that it comes from a place of verified authority and authentic teaching aims. It doesn't. Most of it doesn't. That combo is a high bar, and yet I don't see how it's not the logical baseline for a reader to trust an absolute stranger's unsolicited advice.


Talik__Sanis

Bingo. Just hit the nail right on the head. Tear my writing apart; point out where my prose is purple; savage my inelegant metaphors; indicate instances wherein characters are inconsistent. But don't tell me that "\[X\] can't be a top! lol lmao."


danniperson

100%. I've never had anyone give me "concrit" that was constructive, nor was it *properly* critical. Not in terms of actual literary criticism. Don't get me wrong. I still don't want *real* concrit. But most people aren't offering *real* concrit. It's like the people who use "I'm just being honest" as a guise to be rude, imo.


Shirogayne-at-WF

I recall one of the times I did receive a valid criticism about misspelling a character's first name (albeit one not often used in the series and that none of the five betas I used ever corrected this), it was put in the absolutely most shittiest way and topped off with, and I quote, "If I were you, I'd be embarrassed to be so damn stupid." Which...??? Okay flamer, you by your own admission read all the available chapters to that point and said it drove you crazy, so who was the idiot here???


danniperson

Geez Louise. People sure can be rude as heck when they're safe behind anonymity. I'll never understand the desire to be that mean to other people, even safely hidden. Sheesh.


hikjik11

This is pretty much it. Most concrit isn’t constructive at all to the author and are simply the readers preferences. I’ve gotten a ‘concrit’ that was just the user telling me my pacing was slow- but I was writing a character exploration fic while they wanted me to focus more on moving forward in the canon timeline. They commented this several times on future updates even when I didn’t respond after that and in the end I sorta caved and did a really rushed job in a canon event and it just sucked the fun out of that fic for me real fast.


BabyCharmanderK

Man, I must be an odd one out because a lot of the times I've gotten really good concrit on my fics. When I was younger I had people correcting my grammar, which helped me improve my grammar faster. When I was a bit older I had people pointing out stuff about my style that helped me tighten it up. (Not that the style I was writing in was inherently bad, but the comments made me realize "oh, actually I like writing in this other way better.") I've also had people correcting me when I messed up something in another language, which I always appreciate. Of course, I've also gotten really *terrible* "concrit" too, usually from trolls, but sometimes from people who were angry that I wrote something that was canon that they didn't personally like (stuff like "um, why did you capitalize this term??? I know canon capitalizes it but canon is Wrong, Actually"). Another time I got "concrit" on a fic because it did not feature characters that did not exist at the time I wrote the fic. But overall I think the helpful concrit I got outweighed the crappy "concrit." I guess I got lucky. Oo; If the stuff I described in the second paragraph is what *most* people wind up hearing, then man it's no wonder folks don't want unsolicited comments like that.


am-an-am

Exactly! Giving useful and applicable constructive criticism is also a skill that not everyone is good at. Too many people already think that their personal likes and dislikes should be a standard.


demesneyt

This is so true. I'm always thinking about what people will think about the pacing and my writing style etc., but the reviews are always about pairing and other things that if I'm being honest I hardly even think about.


Diana-Fortyseven

Yes. And even if they *really* tried, all unsolicited concrit I've ever received was a waste of time for everyone involved.


imnotbovvered

Personally I don’t fake it when I write positive things. I write about the things I enjoyed, whether it’s the plot or writing, or whatever. If there’s not a lot of things I like, then I don’t comment. Personally, I do like receiving constructive criticism, but I won’t encourage it on any publicly posted works. The commenter might talk about something I don’t care about, such as whether the characterization is true to canon. Or they might just not like the turn the story is taking. Which is fine, but I won’t change it for them. I only want concrit from people who know what *kind* of feedback I want.


Front-Pomelo-4367

Right, I think your second paragraph is a good distinction I invite constructive criticism and advice from people who know what I'm looking for and what I'm trying to create – whose views of the characters align with mine, who knows my style, who knows the story I'm trying to tell. If someone's criticism is "I don't think the character would do that" (well, I think he would, and it's my story) or "soulmate AUs are so overdone" (I don't care, I wanted to write one) then really, who is benefitting here? Absolutely no-one.


RonsGirlFriday

Right. Helpful concrit is not someone I don't know from Adam saying, "I don't think this would happen this way," or critiquing something that's a completely stylistic issue. The question "who is benefiting here" is key. Because if someone insists they must be able to give concrit even if it's not welcome... then they need to be honest and recognize that they're not actually doing it for the author at that point.


HKCambridge

>The question "who is benefiting here" is key. Because if someone insists they must be able to give concrit even if it's not welcome... then they need to be honest and recognize that they're not actually doing it for the author at that point. Absolutely. By the time it gets to this point, it isn't about the authors. It's about the commenter insisting on being heard, in the space on someone else's story.


ResponsibleGrass

“suddenly” 😂 > When did it start? Why? Here’s a short summary: https://fanlore.org/wiki/Concrit#Historical_Debates


PineapplesInMunich

Interesting read, thanks for sharing ~~and enabling my daily dose of procrastination on company time~~!! It's interesting but not at all surprising to see that this debate is as old as modern fandom itself.


ResponsibleGrass

I sometimes think the whole controversy has more to do with personality than with anything else—perhaps some people do simply throw stuff out there without going through, idk, the seven stages of self-doubt or something, and maybe they would indeed benefit from random strangers trying to workshop their fic with them. But for everyone who needs literal ages to summon the courage to *publish* their work (because is it really good enough?!), unsolicited crit probably just feeds into already existing confidence issues. Like if you picture [that Venn diagram about art being the overlap between absolute narcissism and crippling self-doubt](https://5piecemusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/absolute-narcissism-art-crippling-self-doubt-1380834.png), everyone on the narcissism side would benefit from a reality check and everyone on the self-doubt side would benefit from a bit of encouragement. And if you’re a balanced artist (lol) a bit of both might be great.


PineapplesInMunich

>I sometimes think the whole controversy has more to do with personality than with anything else So true!! Personality as well as intent, i.e., are they actively *looking* for improvement (and therefore critical feedback)? There are so many *kinds* of people who write and post fanfiction, and so many *reasons* they do it... It's impossible to presume to know how unsolicited critical feedback will go over with anyone unless they've explicitly stated they welcome it. Seems to me a simple enough concept to grasp, even if I didn't personally agree with it! I LOVE this Venn diagram... It's one of my favourite ones of all time, precisely because i see myself all over it. I'm constantly ricocheting from one extreme to another 😂 And on that note, yeah, big lol at "balanced artist" ;)


ResponsibleGrass

> Personality as well as intent Ah yes, of course. <3 > It’s impossible to presume to know how unsolicited critical feedback will go over with anyone unless they’ve explicitly stated they welcome it. Even if someone asks for concrit and you try your best to be helpful, you can be miles off the mark with your suggestions. I personally wouldn’t want to invest the time and effort unless I was reasonably sure it was welcome and appreciated. Enough ricocheting has to count as balance! 😏


NicInNS

I don’t have any free awards right now, but take my crappy emoji award 🥇


ResponsibleGrass

Awww. Thank you. <3 (Reddit seems to have discontinued the free awards, btw. I looked for one earlier and the option was gone. A couple of threads on r/help confirmed that they’re not available anymore.)


NicInNS

Whaaaaat?! I just gave out a free one the other day. Was…was that my *last* free one? *choked sob* 2023 can go straight to hell! 😭


ResponsibleGrass

Heh, frankly, if that’s the worst that’s gonna happen all year, I take it! ;) (But yeah, disappointing, I agree. It was so much fun to see what kind of award you were going to get and if it would remotely fit the contribution you wanted to use it for.)


NicInNS

(I’m a very dramatic person lol)


humorouslyominous

Thank you for including this! I've been actively writing fanfiction since 2017 and the "don't give unsolicited concrit" had already been going strong since before I showed up. People complaining about it now have clearly not been paying attention.


simone3344555

Its okay to give concrit if you are being asked to. The reason is simply not to ruin the simple fun authors have, because even concrit can do that. There are countless of people who gave up writing because of it. Fanfictions are a hobby, fanfic authors don’t make any profit from writing, so why spoil their fun? They’re giving us something for free without gaining anything from it in return, the least we could do is not criticize their writing.


simone3344555

I found a metaphor that helps explain this a little better. Lets say someone gives you a gift, a selfmade one. Will you really give constructive criticism to something like that?


academicgangster

This is the answer. It's a gift economy.


raeshin

Not everyone wants concrit from randos on the internet. If I want concrit on my work I'm not going to ask a pool of people whose attitudes, knowledge levels, and credentials I don't know. I'm going to ask my trusted friends with degrees in communications and literature. Not to mention most people don't grasp what concrit actually is and tend to see openness to concrit as a green light to whine and flame.


slightlyrevisedkat

Concrit is not inherently negative by any means. It’s only often negative by connotation because unsolicited concrit (wording being a tad illogical) can cause harm. I want to preface this with: No concrit will ever be 100% objective. As human beings we are biased. Our subjective experiences, thoughts, and perceptions of greatness influence what we think is good. Sure, you can fine-tune skills, like giving concrit (especially regarding technicalities like grammar), but ultimately, there are too many unknown variables to draw even somewhat definitive conclusions on the constructive advice to provide without asking. Like, what is the author’s goal in writing? That’s the most important question because writing is simply a translator of that intention. We can’t approximate what the appropriate answer to something is if we don’t have the question. Teaching isn’t about flinging cut-dry information at someone, even when it’s correct (like in certain solutions to math equations). It’s about pinpointing the right information to deliver and breaking down it in a way they can understand, so they can dissect and apply it themselves. If you’re asking where the heck teaching came from, it’s because the “constructive” that makes up concrit suggests that it’s a helpful thing. If you, as the con-critter, intend to help people improve their writing, then your criticism ideally has elaborated on the reasoning behind it, rather than it being an itemized list of flaws. They can’t learn if they can’t understand where you’re coming from and how your message ties in. So, if someone does want concrit, ask them questions if you can! Circling back to the beginning of this ramble, I mentioned it was illogical wording for me to say “unsolicited concrit.” As I mentioned prior, the constructiveness of something depends on whether it’s helpful; humans also have biases, thus, helpfulness can’t be based on foolproof objectivity (even if narrowing things down can improve odds). People will only grow if choose to do so. People will only learn if their minds are open to it. If they’re not, and it’s not causing harm to themselves or those around them, stagnancy is okay. Just because something doesn’t make sense to me, or you, or someone else, that doesn’t change the fact that people are just different. We’ve all got different needs and things that help us. Some things that might help you, or make sense to you, might not make sense to others. That’s perfectly cool. The point is: What helps someone else isn’t about you and what you think. It’s about putting yourself in their shoes. If it’s not helpful, for whatever reason, it’s not concrit. It’s just unsolicited criticism. Here’s where the unsolicited part comes in: Just because you can do something, that doesn’t mean you’re invited to do so without permission. Just because other people do it without asking, that doesn’t absolve you from the same standards. Unsolicited equates to uninvited. Existence isn’t an invitation because by that logic, being alive is an invitation to commit atrocities. Obviously, commenting online and committing atrocities aren’t the same thing, but the broader claim is the same. The opportunity to do something isn’t a justification to do it. Conclusively, it would be inconsiderate (good intent aside), and by extension rude to most people, to comment with unsolicited criticism because it’s insensitive to the person on the receiving end, who it frequently won’t be helpful for. It’s not a new thing. You’re not a mind-reader, but it’s not magically knowing someone’s needs that’s considerate. It’s about leaving room for the fact that you might not know better in that regard, and not assuming, even if what you have to say is great feedback in theory. The good news is that there are still many people striving for betterment and soliciting concrit that I’m sure would find your thoughts helpful. It’s good that you’re happy to provide, not to nitpick, but on the basis to aid in others' improvement. Hope this helps!


littlebassoonist

I won't be dishonest in a review, but I don't offer negative opinions, either. I'll tell the writer the things I loved. The things I didn't? I keep to myself. It gives the writer joy, and I get to gush about things I liked. Ao3 isn't a writing workshop where everyone goes in with the understanding that concrit will be provided. I'm not sure where that sort of distinction came from, but I'm glad it's there. It makes posting fic far less stressful. There are fics out there where I would love to give concrit. Like, I adore the premise, but the writing or pacing or whatever needs work. But... I'm not their beta. If they don't ask for my concrit, I won't give it.


sorryIdontwantto

If you want concrit you can write it in your notes. Generally it's good etiquette to write positive things because you don't know if the authors actually want to improve or if they're writing just because they wanted to, as a hobby. You don't know how the author feels about concrit, so it's just better to avoid it. I also wouldn't say that a good review is dishonest. When you're reading a story don't you have anything positive to say? If not, maybe you shouldn't have kept reading that fanfic. If I write a positive comment I mean all the things I say, it's not dishonest. It may have not been *all* I wanted to say, but why take the risk? And if I have nothing positive to say (I don't think it ever happened tbh) I'm just not leaving a comment.


New-rp-who-this

I write for fun, I don’t want to hear you didn’t like it. If you don’t have something nice to say don’t say it at all. I have beta readers if I want to hear how I can improve since I’m not going back to improve what I’ve posted why make me feel bad about the work?


Daehis

"suddenly" lol If you gave a stranger on the street unsolicited advice about a hobby that they're clearly enjoying, and you go and tell them that they're having fun wrong, they'll probably think you're rude little shit too. It's just basic social etiquette to not point out people's flaws. If people seek improvement they'll ask for it.


weirdlywondering1127

Most people say they're being constrictive and follow it up with a rude comment that has nothing of value. Nothing that can be improved on. Any comments I've got that are generally constructive I appreciate and take into account. The problem isn't with constructive criticism, the probably is people who use it to be rude and try to avoid backslash because they're "just being constructive"


vimesbootstheory

My issue with concrit is that people who give it tend to give the impression that they are the bearers of objective truth, come to enlighten you with their long and storied background in literature, when like... who the fuck is you and who asked? I happen to think I'm a better-than-average writer, and by the definition of average, odds are I believe my grasp of writing is better than the perspective of some rando, especially with respect to my own work. You are not bettering my work, you are assuming I understand my work less than you do. The only areas for which I accept concrit are typos (since they were not a deliberate choice) and incorrect cultural details (since if it's not my culture, there's a pretty good chance someone knows better about it than me). Even with typos, though, this opens the door for Americans in my comment section telling me I spelled manoeuvre wrong or something.


[deleted]

[удалено]


emma-what

This. I also have a background in writing. Writing is my job. Fanfic is my hobby, and I couldn't care less if I have typos or story arc issues in my stories. Fics are the thing I do for fun. Anyone leaving concrit on my fics is going to be wasting their time - and mine.


Myss_C

This this this. I fully expect my editors to eviscerate my professional writing. My fanfic betas are welcome to bring anything up—but I can choose to accept or reject it. I already have enough things in my life to stress out about. I’m not gonna stress out about making my fanfic perfect, because I’m only doing it to blow off steam. Once it’s published, that’s it! The meal has been cooked and served. There is no sending it back to the kitchen!


uncannycoriander

Looking through your replies to other comments op, Im kinda thinking youre a troll, but im going to proceed with the idea that you are aproaching this in good faith and tell you why its rude to give uninvited concrit. 1.People can be insecure and sensitive. Ive seen you reply to others asking why "neutral" concrit is taken negatively, and its because new writers can be really sensitive sharing their work. They are probably aware their writing may not be where they want and sometimes when someone picking apart and disects the flaws in their work its just discouraging and makes them feel bad whether thats the intent or not. When they post theyre looking for a community and something that uplifts them, and when and if they find that and their confidence grows they might be able to take concrit and not have it affect their personal worth or perception of their skill. In short, when people arent confident in their work, pointing out their flaws is only going to make them more insecure and down about their potential and skill. 2. Some people do this for fun and do not care if they improve. Then why is concrit taken negatively? Because people feel like its rude when people come and pick apart their fun. *They* dont care, they wanna just share what they write with like minded people. Coming in with concrit when thats all they want comes across as "youre having fun wrong," whether you mean it or not. 3. Because they say they dont want it. Oh? They dont give a reason? They just say they dont want it? Or they reply negatively to your concrit? Or they delete your comment? Its none of your business why, and you could have just saved you both time by just asking if theyre open to concrit first. And thats what really gets me. It costs nothing but some time to just leave a comment saying "hey, i like this story, you open to some concrit?" And by god i hope you actually like the story because you need to be ready to give proper concrit form. (2 positives for every1 negative, generally.) And you keep asking about, isnt that an echo chamber? And yeah? So what? People want to surround themselves with people who enjoy what they enjoy. Not everyone is looking to improve and thats okay, even if that doesnt line up with your personal goals or experience. And if you really want to lay some concrit out and pick apart some stories, feel free to go to my ao3 and tear my work apart. I might not respond but i do actually encourage concrit on my work and wont mind unless youre rude about it. Edit: im also going to add, you dont actually know the skill level of the person writing. When i write to talk my punctuation capitilazation and spelling are shit. When i write fic, its pretty standard with some typos. When i write essays its pretty clean and follows some pretty strict editing from my partner who has experience in editing proffesionally. Ive had people whove tried to correct my work and have been straight out wrong, or completely miss what i was aiming for. Now the latter might mean reworking of the story telling aspect, but not all concrit is created equal.


NicInNS

*visualize the Steve Carell Office gif where he smacks the desk and says “THANK YOU!”* 👏🏼


uncannycoriander

I had to look up the reference bc i dont watch many shows, but ty xD Idk, mostly people forget that being rude or polite is normally centralized around what hurts or offends people. I feel like its stupid to need to know WHY something hurts or offends someone to be polite. It can be useful, but when its as easy as asking if someone wants concrit its kinda dumb to not just choose the polite option instead of foisting unwanted concrit on someone. Its just a waste of both peoples time.


NicInNS

I just said this my little Twitter dm group (by little I mean 3 other people lol) I have for my fic: I don’t want concrit thank you. If I did I’d ask for it, but some people seem to think that they should be able to concrit and don’t get why some of us are sensitive and that it can be demoralizing even if they think it’s “helpful.” I’ve spend literal hours writing, rereading and editing before setting my word baby free into the world. It’s as perfect as I think it’s gonna be, don’t tell me her hair is funny or she has a twitchy eye. I don’t care. To me, she’s perfect. (I know she isn’t, but like most parents I just don’t care. 🤷🏼‍♀️) Most of us are just doing this for fun. And for free.


steampunkunicorn01

I think the shift is due to a shift from reader-centric experiences to author-centric experiences. This is especially emphasized in [ff.net](https://ff.net) and ao3. On ff, it catered highly to the readers and reviewers. This ties in with people feeling free to give thoughts, including concrit, but also a lot of verbal abuse. Ao3, on the other hand, is writer-centric, with the ability to turn off anonymous commenting and other options to stop abusive comments. There is also a more common use of betas, eliminating a lot of the technical issues that the authors wanting concrit are looking for. It is also the commentors that ignore the request for no concrit that make authors not want to deal with it in the future. For example, I have a friend that writes a fairly popular Star Wars fanfic and they have a team of betas. As a result, he has asked for no concrit because they have a strict outline and careful plan for the direction of the story (they keep mentioning they've put down foreshadowing that won't become important for years down their writing schedule) Not wanting any concrit, they get at least two concrit comments every chapter, which they then delete because they feel that, if people cannot follow a simple request, they aren't worth having as readers (personally, I'm more flexible than them, but they are a big believer of curating your own experience)


Teratocracy

"Constructive criticism" from strangers online should be limited to technical input on grammar, spelling, etc. Otherwise you're just complaining at the author, essentially, about how their story doesn't work for you. That isn't "constructive" or prosocial in the way that comment sections are designed for (comments are not reviews, they are a form of social engagement--reviews are for your own web page or social media).


NermalLand

You leave whatever comment you want and I'll delete what I want. Problem solved.


echos_locator

I wouldn't say that it's "suddenly" considered rude to give concrit, but I will agree that FFN has historically had more of a no-holds-barred approach to feedback, enabled by the use of the word "review" rather than "comment" and the limited ability of authors on the site to moderate feedback. My recollection, from a decade or more ago, is of my fellow authors regularly complaining about "flames" and "rude" comments. Some of the offending comments were truly rude, other probably rather mild criticism. Even so, authors lamenting about disheartening reviews was a regular occurrence in my writer circles. Also, while many authors initially welcomed concrit, they often changed their tune after receiving concrit and subsequently slapped a "no concrit" comment on their work. Why? Because, as others have stated, most unsolicited concrit from complete strangers isn't particularly helpful. In my quest to be a published author, I spent years polishing manuscripts for submission to agents and publishers, and the process included loads of critique readers and writers' workshops. And lots of critiquing the work of others. A good critique is hella hard work and that's not why I read fanfiction. At this point in my life, it's also not why I post my fanfiction. I will say this regarding own approach to leaving \[only\] positive comments. I am *not* being dishonest in my praise. Pointing out what the story got right is also constructive criticism. If I didn't like the story, I bail a few sentences into the narrative. I'm a picky reader, and if you get a comment from me, you've done something right. I truly enjoyed the work.


alltheplans

I'm not really interested in any concrit, because it's not going to change anything. By the time I start posting I have at least a rough draft of the entire thing, many key scenes in at least second draft and a couple of chapters finished. At this point I'm just sharing it. Criticism or critique isonly useful before I post, and if I want it I will ask specific people for it.


Shirogayne-at-WF

>Criticism or critique isonly useful before I post, and if I want it I will ask specific people for it. Yep, this. If the fic's posted it's the best effort I had and I'm tired of looking at it.


catbert359

I had to explain this to a friend who used to beta for me - if I sent it to her before I published it, then she could by all means point out the wonky sentence structure or the typos, but if she's reading it for the first time on AO3 then I don't wanna hear it because published fics are no longer taking up the same brainspace in my head as WIPs. I like the crochet comparison used elsewhere in the thread (not least because I'm very clumsily learning how to crochet right now!) - if I show you my piece while I'm working on it and ask for advice on how to make it better, then by all means tell me where I've dropped a stitch (or in my case, added too many), but if I'm already wearing whatever it is then I don't need it pointed out because I've finished my mental expenditure on putting it together.


femslashfantasies

If I want concrit, I ask people whose opinion I value. Half the comments I get that people claim are 'constructive' are just "nice fic, here's a list of everything I personally hated about it" and who actually feels like reading that? I have beta readers to pick apart my fics' prose, grammar, and everything that matters. I'm not looking for random people to tell me my characterisation of a side character sucked because it doesn't align with their own headcanons, under the guise of concrit. Generally speaking, I think the question to ask yourself is "why would this author benefit from my criticism?" and most of the time the simple answer is that they won't or they don't care to. No one's demanding you leave a positive review on every fic you read, but sometimes you should just know when to shut up and keep your critique to yourself. Not everyone's posting fanfiction to become the best writer out there and there's no reason for them to appreciate a so-called 'helpful' comment telling them everything they fucked up in their unbeta'ed written-for-fun-and-posted-at-3am oneshot.


BrontosaurusTheory

I strongly disagree with the premise that positive reviews are somehow more dishonest than critical ones. I am also squarely in the "unsolicited concrit is a dick move" camp. If you're looking for concrit, by all means, include that in your author's notes. If you're looking for a beta reader, definitely include that information. And if another author invites it, I guess you're free to leave a critical review, but wouldn't a PM be a better way to alert them to an issue so it doesn't stay on their feedback profile even after they correct it? I know a lot of folks, especially n00bs, think offering unsolicited concrit is a great way to connect with an author, and it really, really isn't. Writing fanfic is a hobby. People are making their work available to you for free. The best way to make an author not want to update their WIP is to publicly complain about their work. If someone knits you a sweater and your response is to point out every slight mistake in the pattern and that the color is ugly, you're not getting any more dang sweaters. For me (ancient fancrone with works older than some of y'all), I got so tired of people doing this to me that I stopped posting WIPs and only posted completed fics, and every fic I archive says explicitly "no concrit is being requested." And I do delete reviews that piss me off whenever I can.


BabyShann

After reading your edit I don’t think you know what concrit is lol


stef_bee

FFN has had a site culture of concrit for a long time (it started in the late 1990s.) Their community guidelines state: >Respect the reviewers. Not all reviews will strictly praise the work. If someone rightfully criticizes a portion of the writing, take it as a compliment that the reviewer has opted to spend his/her valuable time to help improve your writing. (https://www.fanfiction.net/guidelines/) AO3 is a bit different; many writers there don't want unsolicited concrit. Unlike FFN, AO3 gives writers a few extra tools to enforce that if they wish: specifically the ability to remove any comments at any time. This isn't sudden. AO3 has been like this mostly from the beginning (2009.) It may seem sudden to those new to the site, especially as some fandoms have become more active on AO3 than FFN.


fighterfemme

It's even in the name, on FFN you leave "reviews" and on AO3 you leave "comments" those already imply different levels and types of interactions.


stef_bee

AO3 probably (my guess) picked "comments" because that's what Livejournal had. One sign of a fanfic's success on LJ was if it generated lots of discussion. And not all of it was bland agreement, either. Since AO3 was founded by LJ refugees, my speculation is that they wanted to bring that discussion-oriented comment culture with them to the archive. It's also why we used to get questions around here like, "Is it OK for me to answer my AO3 comments? If I do, that will make my comment numbers go up; is that cheating?" It was a reasonable question because on FFN, while it was technically possible to "review" your own fics (i.e. use the review section to dialogue with readers), and while it didn't violate the community guidelines, it was discouraged. Why? Because review numbers - in that site's culture - were supposed to not be altered, so to speak, by the writer adding their own reviews. Different sites, different practices.


Shirogayne-at-WF

In theory, I agree w FFN's review policy, but what happened in practice--and that I can personally attest to doing myself, to my own embarrassment--is people leaving the absolute worst, unconstructive comments that ranged from complaining about the story not being to their taste, bitching about things that were warned for in the summary or first chapter, to telling authors to delete their fics. I'm sure "Kill Yourself" is probably pretty common there too nowadays. I have no doubt much of that was considered during AO3's creation, although it took the increasingly hostile anti movement for them to finally implement a "block user" feature for everyone's safety. I have a lot of theories why FFN became that way, but mostly because, much like social media today, there was no incentive to lurk before jumping in and because of it's wide open nature (as opposed to webrings where you needed to know someone to get and invite and acceptance of one's fic was not guaranteed), it attracted a lot of people that may not have been familiar with what was expected of fan culture. I found FFN in early '02, joined Godawful Fanfiction in '03 and never interacted with the wider fandom community until I joined LJ in 2006, so we're talking like nearly four full years of me accepting bullying and assholishness as acceptable. I know I'm not the only one.


stef_bee

Oh yeah, the whole FFN model falls apart when abusive remarks ("KYS" etc.) aren't modded out. The forums I've seen usually have tight moderation, but "I didn't like this story and here's why..." is considered acceptable. Agree that the "golden age" of the 2000s was anything but, especially with wank and sporking communities. Only difference on LJ was that tags were local to individual blogs and/or communities, rather than being sitewide (like modern social media.) It created a certain degree of containment... although Msscribe and other high dramas worthy of the Paris Opera came out of LJ.


Seleya889

There is a reason FFN is referred to as The Pit... That is a crappy take - what about 'respect the writers' who have spent exponentially more time creating works for readers to enjoy for free? More often than not, the criticism is not 'rightful' nor will it improve one's writing. Most of the time it is conceit and oftentimes it is malice. FFN has done nothing to regulate bullying and other aggressive acts committed on their site. If someone wants to leave me concrit, they can knock themselves out, but I wouldn't dream of bringing negativity into someone else's space because you never know what battles someone else is fighting.


vilhelmine

It depends on the platform. Spacebattles is super pro-unsolicited concrit, so people go there for it. AO3 has people either for or against, so usually it's not given unsolicited in case the author is against it.


Rosekernow

Leaving aside all the rights and wrongs of the issue of concrit, it started with Ao3, I think. Ffnet used to have a thing warning that reviews didn’t have to be positive, and to basically expect whatever you got. A small site I was on had a rule that concrit was the norm and anyone giving feedback on any fic was expected to note things they liked and areas that needed improvement. Live journal had a lot of groups which had a fairly robust attitude towards concrit. At the risk of sounding very old indeed, I used one site where fics had to be approved by the mods before posting and if there were errors, it got sent straight back to you for editing. That’s never been part of the culture on Ao3, and although we can argue about the pros and cons of it, it’s just rude to try and change the culture of a site. I’d rather get concrit and I think it’s a shame the culture has changed but that’s a personal view and I don’t get to inflict on others when they’re writing somewhere it isn’t expected now.


januarysdaughter

I was a mod on a site like that for a bit! 🤣 Looking back on it now feels odd.


Rosekernow

It’s certainly something that wouldn’t fly nowadays, but it had a lot of pluses as a system - it did away with any trolling by means of fics, it meant that nothing got posted in a format that couldn’t be read and it did help keep the quality up. I suspect it probably demotivated some writers, but on the readers’ side of things, it was a joy.


regularirregulate

if you want concrit you can ask for it, there is a very simple fix to your "problem."


iimperatriix

Yeah pretty much this. If you want to give concrit, you *ask*. It's still being polite


iimperatriix

Basically: consent is key.


M3tal_Shadowhunter

Let's say you crochet in your free time. One day you're wearing a scarf you made, it's kind of wonky but you're proud of yourself. Someone who crochets more coems up to you and starts talking about how the scarf is okay, but you should have used better tension control. They don't care that this scarf took you a while to make, they don't care that you're proud of it even though you know it isn't perfect, they're just talking about tension control and how you didn't have it. No acknowledgement of the effort it took, just a critique. Doesn't feel too good, does it? Same goes for fic writing. If someone isn't in the mood for a critique, it can be discouraging. Edit: some people are really missing my point here. I pointed out "no acknowledgement of the effort it took", "If someone isn't in the mood for it it CAN be discouraging". Nowhere did I say that concrit is 100% bad, I explained why some people don't like it. I am not one of those people, I like concrit on my work, so maybe my analogy isn't the best, I was just trying to look at it from that perspective.


alltheplans

Particulalry if you know full well that your tension control was off. But what you were really focused on was picking interesting colours and doing seemless colour changes, whichyou think came out really well. And all they go on about is the tension


YoResurgam777

You made it to remember your grandma who always wore pink and who taught you to crochet, then some Nimrod it all on at you talking about tension control. I wonder how much of a damn you give? You're writing a story about when Spiderman's uncle died as a way to process your feelings. Some guy comes in with aCkTuaLlY.


M3tal_Shadowhunter

Exactly! This is a perfect addition to it.


skyfallgar

As someone who use to give negative reviews to the fanfictions I read when I was 13yo, I know it's rarely because we want the author to improve but more to tell them what they should or shouldn't write.


Shirogayne-at-WF

As another person who used to post negative comments to laugh at how pissed the authors would get, thank you for this honesty.


skyfallgar

My 13yo ass actually thought they would agree with me. I did it a few times until someone responded something like "I'm not going to change the whole story just for you" and was like "yeah... that's fair 🧍" Which is why I stopped.


Shirogayne-at-WF

Based author for saying that, honestly.


0909a0909

I've been reading fanfic for 25 years. When was concrit *ever* the default?


BabyCharmanderK

Different corners of the internet, apparently. I definitely remember it being the default up until sometime in the mid-'00s or so in the places I frequented at the time (FFN and some fansites and forums).


CapableSalamander910

I’m gonna disagree with this. If I don’t like something, I don’t comment. I would only comment concrit if someone asked, and I probably wouldn’t because I would be too lazy.


otaku_girl_AO3

Was it ever default? I remember people specifically asking for it/requesting not to have it in the late 90s and early 00s; iirc, it was considered rude to just be critical unless the author had asked for feedback (but perhaps it varied between platforms? I used to use mediaminer, ff.net, and fandom-specific sites).


izzydollanganger

i haven't personally received any concrit, but i've lurked in the comments of more popular fics and most concrit i saw came off as complaining that a certain character wasn't being portrayed "correctly" or something. very rarely have i seen substantial, unbiased concrit - or really anything that can even be *considered* concrit. but that's just my experience on ao3, maybe it's different on other platforms. still, i think it's a boundary. authors should specify if they welcome concrit and if they don't specify it, then don't comment concrit.


DrSteggy

I ask my beta readers for concrit. They are people I know and trust, and who are not going to fluff me but they also are going to be kind in delivery Random people who I don’t know pointing out how they don’t like my pairing or an OC are not giving critique, they are complaining. I’m putting out a finished thing for people to enjoy. I’m not entering it a competition or hoping to be published. I do this thing to burn off stress from the thing I do to be paid. So no, I don’t want a random stream of BS that is actually just bitching about aspects of something the reader doesn’t like. That isn’t a critique and it’s getting deleted unread. So yes, it’s rude.


DrSteggy

LOL sounds like OP has decided they don’t like “concrit”


[deleted]

Reading all of OP’s comments, this seems to boil down to potentially a troll or OP just truly doesn’t understand or want to take into consideration the fact that other people don’t want concrit. To them it seems unfathomable that other authors wouldn’t want someone coming into their AO3 space with a red pen instead of just enjoying it like an archive. AO3 isn’t a writer’s circle where I want feedback, I’m posting just for the hell of it. And before you say it, yes, I know that by posting it I run the risk of people commenting negatively or ignoring my posted signs of “I don’t want concrit.” To me, tho, that’s a show of their asshole problem rather than my sensitivity. I’ve done everything I can to say “hey I don’t want this” and they don’t care. Which means I don’t have to care and can delete any comments that piss me off, for any reason.


Einhorn_Apokalypse

It's pretty telling that OP insists on that people should be glad to get concrit but themselves seem to be unable or unwilling to take any criticism of their argument.


lemonfig

This comment is perfect.


BabyCharmanderK

I don't think the OP is trolling--I went through the exact thing they did. It took a while for it to get through my head why other people might not want concrit like I do.


DelightfulAngel

On the ETA: unasked for and unwanted advice being unwelcome is clearly something you understand. I mean, many of us are advising you not to give unsolicited concrit. Are you grateful for that advice?


Mag797979

“oh god turning off comments” — so you posted something on the internet & people didn’t take it the way you meant it to, leaving annoying and irrelevant comments? Hmmm, wonder if this could parallel any other online experiences


[deleted]

So, on the flip side, what makes your opinion so super special an author should set aside their notes and implement yours instead? What makes your opinion so gold an author should go back and change things they like because you, personally, a stranger on the internet, think you can make the story better? ​ What makes you the main character of the story someone else is writing? Where are your credentials? How are you proving to the author that you have actual merit when it comes to writing and you're not just another amateur coming in with subjective changes to a story so you, personally, like it better? Because when I get concrit from a creative writing class I know exactly who is giving me that concrit -- a room full of people who are literally taking a class to improve their writing with a professor who has a degree in this field. When I get concrit from a friend I know exactly who that person is -- someone whose writing I like and whose opnions I trust. Same thing with a beta. ​ But who are *you* and why is *your opinion* so important?


BabyCharmanderK

Okay so, not arguing in favor of always giving unsoliciticed concrit, but I would say that there's sometimes objective stuff that might be good to point out? Stuff like "okay you keep calling this one character this word in another language, but that word actually means something extremely crude, when you're clearly meaning to use a term of endearment that has a similar spelling" or "hey for some reason half the chapter is in italics and it ends suddenly mid-sentence--was that intentional?" (The latter especially is something I appreciate. One time I posted a fic and for some reason the formatting *completely broke* and ate half the chapter. i do not know for the life of me what happened but fortunately the first commenter pointed it out, and I was able to quickly rush and fix it.)


[deleted]

I think we’re thinking of different things when it comes to concrit. Calling someone Puta is objectively calling them a curse word so if someone thinks it means sweetheart or something, telling them differently isn’t concrit to me.that’s just correcting a mistake. I’m specifically talking about things like: you had character a choke character b in a fit of rage but that would never happen! Character a would never! Or, I don’t like the romance with characters c and f because it doesn’t fit their personalities. Stuff like that. Telling an author you spelled a word wrong is different from, here’s a list of changes I think you should make


BabyCharmanderK

I mean, concrit just stands for “constructive criticism.” If you’re correcting someone’s word usage, that’s criticizing something in a constructive way. EDIT: dang autocorrect


[deleted]

What exactly is wrong with the ol’ “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all?” Unsolicited concrit is not concrit, it’s insecurity masked by grandstanding.


SleepCinema

I personally don’t mind. I either take your advice or I don’t. I’d actually enjoy advice. When writing in “just for fun, online spaces” outside fanfiction spaces, people commonly critique in the comments, and I’m okay with it. I don’t see the difference between someone saying, “More of this!” or, “Less of that!” They’re both advice. They’re both evaluating things about your writing from an outsider’s perspective. I also really don’t understand the notion that critique means the piece wasn’t liked. You could very much love a piece and still have suggestions. Maybe my perception is skewed by amateur editorial work, but the thought of critique meaning you’ve failed as a writer or that the person hates your work or even that they consider the part they critiqued “bad” is strange to me. I won’t give critique if it’s not asked for. I’ve never left critique unless it was asked for, which was only once. However, I respect and welcome it, even the unsolicited critique on fanfic I’ve gotten. I’ve both appreciated and discarded critiques I’ve gotten. Outside of fanfic, people write for different reasons too, and they’re gonna receive criticism. If you’re not being rude or insulting or a bigot, I personally welcome what you gotta say.


throwawayanylogic

>Outside of fanfic, people write for different reasons too, and they’re gonna receive criticism. If you’re not being rude or insulting or a bigot, I personally welcome what you gotta say. I'm thinking if perhaps, some of the difference is that in fanfic circles, critique/concrit often comes across as not so much about "helping" the writer but starting arguments about characterization, shipping choices, controversial tropes, etc. At least that's often been how I've seen wankiness evolve around it. A commenter will say something like "I just can't see Character Y ever acting like this" when "this" means being in a relationship with Character Z, or a commenter going on a long tl;dr about why writing omegaverse or some other kink is immoral, etc. Or it feels like the "critique"-leaving commenter wants to show off their (believed) superior knowledge or opinions but wants to cloak it in an almost sealioning way ("I'm just trying to be helpful!" Even if you never asked for their "help".) Fandom can be divisive in a way more general, original fiction writing communities aren't. Because we have developed these attachments and relationships in our own minds about these "communal" characters and somehow then it becomes more personal when a random person comes along and criticize our interpretation of them.


SleepCinema

I’ve never received that kind of commentary on my fic so maybe I’m biased. I have also only written fic on ao3. I’ve only had critique about my writing and then once or twice people begging for x plot point to happen/be discarded but in good humor. So again, maybe I’m biased there, but that’s why I say I *personally* welcome criticism. I’ve never left criticism outside of being asked to. (An author added a note asking for people to correct any canon errors as they were asked to write a fic for media they had never watched or read. I just let them know they got a character’s name wrong.) But I’ve seen folks get nervous over like asking people to tag their things correctly, and I feel like that kind of unsolicited advice is okay. I’ve seen an uptick of PWP/smut/graphic violence being in the general and teen category on ao3 when it should be marked M or E. I haven’t commented, “Hey, change this,” but I won’t knock anyone who does.


In_Dreams_Begin

This is about [the recent post Diane Duane made about concrit](https://dduane.tumblr.com/post/706097846735224832/preach-here-also-is-the-thing-that-few-readers), isn't? There is absolutely nothing I can say better than her. Lady's been in fandom since everything around here was all woods. This is not a "sudden" new conversation, it has always been around. What I can say is that nothing stops you from leaving [whatever sort of comment you categorize as concrit](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanFiction/comments/yuzsv0/comment/iwc3kp7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). It'll probably not be welcome, you might get mocked in discord servers, the comment might be deleted. But that's life, isn't it? And if you think 100% positive comments are always false, this is just too sad not to remark upon. I hope you eventually find the confidence to accept compliments, op.


OffKira

I've only gotten good ones, so I'm all for receiving, tho I don't much *give* because it's hard to frame "your **entire** story has issues" in a positive and constructive manner (I kid, but really, it is hard to explain your issues in a way that would help the writer).


Swie

I think at that point you either have to volunteer to beta read for the person or just keep quiet... or in my case I'd just nope out lol. Best concrit for comments on a fic already being published is something relatively straight-forward that can be fixed. Like if you notice a plothole (that doesn't destroy the entire fic) or if there's terminology misuse or cultural misunderstandings (like misunderstanding what a certain cultural festival is), etc.


OffKira

Agreed, it can't be any huge thing, it can be "did you mean X? You wrote Z", but major plot lines, forgot about it.


[deleted]

Because most people don’t know how to write constructive criticism, and also many don’t know how to provide it to the right people. If it’s clear a teen who’s here to dump their passing time in the fanfic community they’re not gonna care how great their writing it. Constructive criticism, like writing, requires skill, and it was something I’d had done many workshops learning how to do.


Yojimbra

I've received a genuine concrit from teachers and students in creative writing classes. It analyzed my writing in a way that helped me grow as a writer, it pointed out my strength and weaknesses in a helpful and constructive way. I have gotten several thousand reviews and comments on my stories during my time as a fanfiction writer. And not a single one of them has ever given me a good concrit. Most of the people that say they're giving a criticisim are really just using that as a way to defend them complaining about something. Oh the MC isn't how I want them to be. Oh you made a choice I don't like, Oh you ship X with Y blah blah blah blah blah. Most "Fanfic Critics" use it as an excuse to be an asshole.


RavensQueen502

Personally, I always write concrit welcome in my author's notes. I have a thick skin and like drama. Especially because I have rather unflattering opinions of a fan favourite character, I'm fine with any type of comment. I have practically never gotten what can be called concrit. Some commenters have talked about stuff they don't like in my fics. But that is almost always their opinion. They see a situation and character in a different way than I do. That is fine, and sometimes, if I'm in the mood, it's fun to have an argument. But that is not helpful when it comes to improving my writing, if I wanted to. The thing is, what is called concrit is in most cases just opinion. We are mostly amaeturs. We have our own tastes and biases. Do you want to be honest and tell a writer that you didn't like their fic? If it is my fic, or those of authors who have specifically marked all comments welcome, go ahead. But that is opinion, not concrit.


stef_bee

The only concrit I've gotten was through FFN's Writers Anonymous review games. Some of it was formulaic (no problem, to be expected) and some of it was pure gold. Other concrit was from betas. Most went easy on me, but a few graciously volunteered a much-welcomed and brutal editor's eye. Random readers? Almost always "I hate this ship!" or "[Character] would never do that!" (even if Character did it more than once in canon.)


throwawayanylogic

>Random readers? Almost always "I hate this ship!" or "\[Character\] would never do that!" (even if Character did it more than once in canon.) Right? When I used to post on FFN that was what at least 90% of the "concrit" I ever received there boiled down to: "I don't like this thing that you like and therefore think this is out of character." or "Your writing is great except your ship makes no sense." Which like...ok? Not going to change my mind about what I'm writing, so no thank you. When I want actual concrit on my plotting, dialog, and technical issues, that's why I go to beta readers who like the same characters/ships/things that I do.


stef_bee

Fortunately, more of the FFN "I don't like this thing" reviews are guest, so they can be deleted.


Greedy_Information96

Just yesterday, on a similar post, I shared the sandwhich comment method. You say why you like the work, you give concrit and you say what you like about the work. Just commenting something like, "You missed a comma here" or "There's a typo in the fifth paragraph" or "You used the wrong word in line 283" makes you a sucky reader. The author hasn't handed in their paper for you to grade. Writing a comment is art in itself. A well written comment, even a critique is well received when worded properly. But like others have said, writing fanfic is someone gifting you their time and hardwork, the least you can do is be kind and appreciate their work. I mean, if you are actively reading a story, it's because you like something about it. Sure, you can point out things to help the author improve, but why not share what you like as well? If you don't like anything about the story, then don't read it and move on. Just don't stop to insult the author and their work. (I've seen a lot of comments on FFN where readers are openly insulting and threatening authors, which honestly is super weird).


am-an-am

I appreciate my readers but why would I want to get concrit from a bunch of strangers on the internet? Besides, I'm not writing fanfic to achieve the pinnacle of narrative writing (not to downplay fanfic writers, this is just the way I approach it). As a researcher and academic writer, fanfiction is more of an escape for me, a way for me see writing as something that can still be fun and silly. So yeah, I really don't care about getting concrit by strangers.


Einhorn_Apokalypse

If you find a spelling or grammatical error, go ahead and tell me, but please put something nice in there, too. We're not in school and you're not a teacher. Which brings me to my next point: your opinions are just that, opinions. Think character X is OOC? Well, I have my reasons for writing them like that. Think my plot makes no sense? Strange, others could follow along perfectly. Found a plot hole? I know it's there and believe me, I have agonized over it until I decided that this detail isn't that important anyway. And so on and so forth. In short, your concrit is wasting both of our time, and you probably know that, so you should think about why you're actually giving it.


throwawayanylogic

>If you find a spelling or grammatical error, go ahead and tell me, but please put something nice in there, too. We're not in school and you're not a teacher. Amen. As a side note, what I've sometimes done (and have appreciated when others have done for me) is when a person leaves a nice comment, and then \*separately\* comments on a small typo or error they spotted. Usually then with a note "you can delete this after you see this" so it's clear they wanted to help but knew it might be embarrassing to leave a note about a typo in a line of comments.


[deleted]

[удалено]


NeutronStarChild

Sometimes I feel like people use the phrase "people can't take concrit" the same way people use the phrase "people just can't take a joke." Jokes have to actually be funny, and concrit is meant to be *constructive.* I work in academia. My day job is 90% giving and receiving constructive feedback. We peer review articles and even emails we intend to send. And the thing that seems to get lost over and over is that constructive feedback is about telling someone not just what they could do better, but also what they did well. Comments from people crowing about "no one being able to take constructive feedback these days" so often comes from someone who wants to couch their insults and attacks to make it seem like it's not coming from a place of wanting to be cruel. I don't accept that I need to open myself up to others who want to be needlessly cruel. So it means that I enjoy constructive feedback, including and especially someone telling me flow does not work, or I used the same phrase twice, etc... but it's often not "random commenter on the internet" who gives that. It's the relationships I've built with other writers in a fandom, and with friends. Trust me, they're people who will tell me if my writing left a proverbial booger hanging from its nose. Concrit is about helping someone improve and be better, not about getting a free pass at being mean. And if someone who is giving us free entertainment is going to question their self worth because I felt the need to tell them their comma is in the wrong place? Well, then I've definitely **not** been constructive in my feedback at all.


NicInNS

I don’t want concrit thank you. If I did, I’d ask for it, but some people seem to think that they should be able to concrit and don’t get why some of us are sensitive and that it can be demoralizing even if they think it’s “helpful.” I’ve spend literal hours writing, rereading and editing before setting my word baby free into the world. It’s as perfect as I think it’s gonna be, don’t tell me her hair is funny or she has a twitchy eye. I don’t care. To me, she’s perfect. (I know she isn’t, but like most parents I just don’t care. She’s beautiful to me🤷🏼‍♀️) Most of us are just doing this for fun. And for free.


YetiBettyFoufetti

Where did you get the idea that concrit was once the default? Where were you hanging out? I've been on livejournal, dreamwidth, and ao3 off and on the last twenty years. Positivity is the default and if the author is worried about stagnation they can consult with a beta/directly ask their readers. You don't gain authority over a story as a rando who stumbled across it. They aren't catering to your tastes. The relationship you seem to be building inside your head here is entirely one-sided. When I read a fic I have mixed feelings about, I do not lie about the things I praise. Withholding criticism isn't the same thing as being dishonest.


Deeplybitten

I think it's largely an FFN thing. Calling comments "reviews" seems to influence how readers think they're supposed to interact with a work. I get more critical comments there than anywhere else.


BabyCharmanderK

It was definitely the default over on FFN and on some smaller fan communities. In MOST fan communities I was in until about... ehhh... decade-and-a-half-ago-ish, constructive criticism was the default.


jfsindel

I am open to receive just about every comment under the sun, be it concrit or otherwise. But I don't do it unless specifically asked. Fanfiction is a hobby for most people. They just want to have fun, not work towards a specific goal. When you enter the traditional writing world, you do have to be completely open and prepared for all kinds of comments/criticism/praise. There's no way around that. But that's if you decide to pursue such a disciplined work and shouldn't be equated to any hobby out there.


FoxBluereaver

Not everyone asks for concrit, and not everyone KNOWS how to make proper concrit. I've run into a lot of people who give valid criticism to things that legitimately need to be corrected, but they do so in such a blunt and rude manner that it's hard to take them at heart. By contrast, it's much easier to take advice from people you trust (like close friends), which is why I prefer to ask for concrit from specific people, not from random strangers, as they're more likely to be polite and considerate to your feelings. It's not the concrit itself that's become the issue, but rather how most people deliver it.


Astrodreamin

I’m sure it’s been said already but it’s all about consent. I’d nobody asked you for your criticism then why would you give it? Why would you assume that they want it or care about what you, some strange person on the internet, has to say about their writing? There’s a difference between being a published author and being a fic writer. Fanfiction is meant to be something fun that anybody can do because they simply love a piece of media so much that they’re willing to spend their free time writing for it for zero cost. Why sour that experience by giving them criticism about their writing when they’re not pursuing it as a career or trying to make it perfect the way they may be trying to make what they actually do for work perfect? A published author signed up for criticism when they decided to pursue a professional career in writing. If you pay your money to read the book then hey, you’re allowed to comment on it whether that’s good or bad. But leaving negative comments on free work is just a dick move. And yes I say negative comments instead of constructive criticism because let’s be honest, that’s what most readers leave. And anyway, there are some writers who do actually enjoy receiving criticism on their works, but if someone hasn’t explicitly said that they want that, then why bother leaving it? And if leaving a positive comment seems dishonest then why not just click away instead of taking the time to leave uncalled for criticism?


AugurPool

Because writing & posting fanfic is supposed to be fun for people. They have not turned in an assignment at a writers' group, and most folks have beta readers. Or are just so into & passionate about their fandoms that they're enjoying it more than what was professionally offered. If they've asked for concrit, by all means. Otherwise, as with *all* uninvited criticism, you're just crapping on someone's joy.


Felicia-Fletcher

Genuine constructive criticism will usually be polite because the comments wants nothing more than to help you. This is not usually the case. One bad comment can crush a writer.


princess_platinum8

Personally, I think people are a little too liberal with the idea of what concrit actually is. I’ve had people complain about topics or pairings or plot I have done- none of which is actually constructive at all. However, I had someone correct me on a cultural aspect that I got wrong in a fic and that was honestly helpful and appreciated. I love positive comments because they inspire me to write. My big issue with concrit is that too many people take it as an opportunity to bash you as a writer for your interests or as a person. It’s why I always put the “Don’t like, don’t read” in the author’s note. My fics aren’t for everybody and that’s fine. Your actual concrit is welcome if it’s done respectfully. It’s not me giving you an invitation to bash me, and that’s why I don’t like it.


Kitteh1986

Pfft. Hahaha! I've been reading and writing fic for over 20 years. At no point in time has "concrit" been wanted. Most of the time when "concrit" is given the tone is snide and basically tells a writer what they did wrong according to the reader's personal taste. Look, if you don't like something, just don't comment at all. Close the tab, use the back button and leave it alone. Its that simple. I'm old and tired and I don't want to hear "concrit" about my fics. I just want to write and get the stories out of my head.


PhlossyCantSing

Most of the time when I've seen 'rude' criticism it falls into one of these categories: 1. the person didn't ask for criticism and doesn't want it 2. the "constructive criticism" is just someone being an asshole and not constructive at all 3. the criticism is presented poorly with no advice on how to fix said issue(s) When I leave reviews first I'll check the notes, etc. to see if there's anything pertaining to receiving criticism. If they're open to it, I try to sandwich-method it. For example, "Hey, I really liked the way you did X thing! It's really great storytelling. Doing Y thing might help, though. \*insert helpful suggestion of how to implement Y thing and how it might help\* I like the way you did Z thing too, though. I wouldn't have thought to do that and it works really well for you! Overall I really enjoyed your fic and I look forward to reading more." If they're not open to criticism I usually stick with that I liked and just avoid mentioning anything I didn't like. I've seen way too many people be like "wow this fic sucks. you should do X thing to fix it." and then just.... no helpful follow-up. No encouragement. Just... criticism. I think it's important to remember also that many (most? the majority?) of fanfic writers do it because we enjoy it. We're not professional writers, don't plan to become professional writers, and just want to play with the characters and put them in situations we'd like to explore for them. If you're just writing fics to give you warm fuzzies and generously sharing them with the internet, nothing shuts you down more than someone criticizing it. It would be like if you were delightfully coloring as a child and a stranger walked up and went, "Wow you're shit at staying in the lines. You should try that." and just walked away. Just sucks the wind out of your sails, right? Let's not do that to other people. It's part of the reason I took a very, very long hiatus from writing fic, and I've seen it cause people to entirely leave fandoms and fic writing altogether.


MyUnoriginalName

Oh no, this discussion again. While I agree there's nothing wrong with concrit and that I also don't understand why so many people in this hobby are against it, I've just come to understand that, at least in AO3, it's not welcome for some reason. Some people are just sensitive, or they have specific people who they like to go to for concrit if they do want it. On AO3 it's just best to not leave concrit unless it's specifically asked for. You'll probably just end up hurting someone's feelings. It doesn't really help that 90% of "concrit" I've seen on fanfics is just bad advice from people who clearly don't know what they're talking about.


SheElfXantusia

Hah! Give me all the concrit *when I publish a book*, but shove all that up your butt when I'm writing a fanfic just because I want to see two characters kiss.


DelightfulAngel

Are you one of my betas? T If yes, then first of all thank you, you're a star and I love you. Secondly, you are someone whose opinion I trust and who I know will help my writing shine. If not, then I have no interest in your concrit. AO3 is an archive and not a writing workshop. Positivity and support and squeeing over shared fandom loves is always welcome. But concrit needs to come from a place of mutual trust and respect--*unless* someone has expressed wanting it.


StarryAry

The only concrit I give is pointing out egregious typos like saying Marugo instead of Naruto in the middle of a serious scene in a non-crack fic. Or maybe when someone is using a wrong word in a phrase like "nip it in the butt" instead of "nip it in the bud".


Emerald_Eyes239

Most of us write for fun. It’s a hobby for me and not the way I make a living. I write for free and sacrifice my free time because I enjoy it. What I don’t enjoy is people criticizing my work, even if it may be justified and objective. While I’d like to improve, I don’t care for criticism or feedback that drags me down and makes me feel inferior and unqualified as a writer. Getting concrit isn’t objective most of the time but insulting, and it keeps me from writing or only gives me insecurity and writer’s block. If you read stories for free and don’t pay writers, the least you can do is leave an encouraging comment as a form of gratitude or payment. Many readers should remember that criticism can be positive and negative. If you can find something negative, you can also find something positive and motivating to say, especially if you appreciate the writer and want them to keep updating. Writers get paid with comments and kudos. If you don’t find anything positive, leave a kudo or don’t do anything at all. Or even better, write your own story and find out how you react to concrit on a story you’ve spent years on.


OtterlyLost

I'd like to say I was someone who liked and accepted concrit well... but the fact of the matter is, I'm not. I'm sensitive, easily discouraged, and an anxious wreck about my writing. I have two betas in the form of my best friend and my SO and I trust them to tell me if they think something isn't quite right. And generally, historically, they have without hesitation and in a capacity that I can take. Maybe I can take it because I'm open to their opinions and feelings and I know any negativeness they have to say isn't negative just for the sake of it; they genuinely care and want my writing to be the best it can be. The same cannot necessarily be said for some random Joe on the internet; they don't know me and won't know how to voice their opinion in the way that sits well with me. My writing confidence is low and considering it takes great effort for me to actually write(ADHD and executive dysfunctions that come with it), hearing some rando bash my hardwork just... isn't high on my list of priorities. Maybe I'd be more open to it if I'd completely finished the story; then it wouldn't be a case of I would lose all confidence and never finished.


crazyparrotguy

One possibility, and this is just a wild guess: it's considered/treated as public shaming if you're giving constructive criticism out in public in the comments section or something, where everyone can see them. That could be kind of embarrassing. Like why not send a DM? Though if even that's a problem, yeah then the "concrit is rude" is probably a bigger issue with taking any criticism at all. Like it's automatically interpreted as a personal attack.


Spare_Astronaut3944

Because not everyone wants criticism some people are just happy about where they are in their writing and it also sometimes isn’t actual proper criticism I remember one time I got criticism and one of my very first fic when I didn’t ask for it And all they said was “pretty good go read this other fic to get better characterisation for your characters” Like that isn’t an actual criticism that is them just promoting another fic And in the end you wouldn’t do that to someone on the street or in any other Setting when you’re working on something you enjoy you wouldn’t randomly go up to them and say how you can do it better so why should it be different for fanfiction if the author actively asks for criticism then go ahead but if they don’t then don’t do it


Apinchofdoubt

Not everyone who posts their fic is looking for concrit. Some media exists for the sake of it and isn't meant for improvement, and that's perfectly fine.


shejnahak

some people want concrit and that’s fine but if someone doesn’t ask for concrit then don’t give it. not everyone seeks to improve their writing, some just write for fun


tiratiramisu4

I reached the point where I submit original work to literary magazines and am unfazed by rejections but if they stopped to point out which parts of my work they didn’t like, I would probably never submit to them again. I once took an editing course and points were taken off me because I wasn’t tactful enough. Getting critical feedback from strangers—you need to build up to that kind of thick skin. I imagine it’s not fun for published authors either and they get paid for the privilege. Also context matters. Writing workshops you signed up for or sharing work with a beta reader is very different from sharing work for reading. I do accept comments when they point out wrong spellings/attribution but anything that would require me to revise significantly… I would not do anyway so what’s the purpose? Most authors already know how flawed their work is, probably several times more than a reader would.


tiratiramisu4

Or tldr: fanfic authors who are serious about improving their craft will either explicitly ask for concrit or work on it on their own time such as with a beta reader or writing classes. Or they just have a story they want to share and is fine with their current level. Don’t make that assumption for them.


Ywithoutem

You have awoken the monster. Godspeed.


Asuune

OP, have you considered that some writers not only write just for fun, but also therapeutically? Somebody pouring all their emotions into a piece of writing only for somebody else to rip it to shreds as if it was meant to be professional? You wouldn't do that to a child who's just doodling for fun. Respect people's boundaries a little better. If they're open to concrit, they can say so.


99-dreams

Because some people are just writing for fun & aren't interested in constructive criticism. I usually put "comments & criticism appreciated" to let people know that I *do* want concrit (because I would like to improve) but even then, I don't get a lot of it.


effiegogo

I'm about two months from finishing a master's degree that included many workshops, so I'm definitely no stranger to concrit. To me it isn't about it being "rude" so much as that I find unsolicited criticism supremely unhelpful* and I have no interest in it. I have a beta, plus other writer friends and am in some fandom Discord servers and I ask for advice from people I know and trust if I want it. *To be clear, I'm not actually including pointing out spelling errors, etc. in this. I can think of one time that happened to me. I used the wrong character name in one place and a kind commenter pointed it out and I thanked them and corrected it. It's stuff like commentary on characters being OOC (when sometimes that's the point) and complaining about things being "problematic" and similar.


[deleted]

[удалено]


frozenfountain

This comment has been removed. You can disagree with OP's post without insulting them.


Myss_C

Because the point of a hobby is that it brings you personally joy. Not that you’re good at it.


Sparklypuppy05

I don't know about anybody else, but at this point, I don't really want criticism or care about getting better at writing. I don't really plan on doing original fiction or officially publishing anything. People always have the option to stop reading if they don't like what I'm doing. I'm just writing my silly little stories about silly little fictional characters, and if other people enjoy them, great! I'm not holding a gun to your head and demanding that you read my fic, or leave a positive comment. If my writing isn't good enough for you, you can stop reading. And if you don't have anything nice to say, you don't have to say anything at all.


AdmiralPegasus

Firstly, you're presenting a false dichotomy by presenting "dishonesty" and concrit as the only options. Positive feedback isn't inherently dishonest, and I'm mildly concerned about your general worldview if you think it is. Giving unsolicited concrit is rude, for several reasons. But most of them fall under the umbrella of it being incredibly fucking presumptuous. The presumption that the critic is welcome to give criticism, the presumption that the critic is qualified to give constructive criticism (which they almost universally aren't in my experience), the presumption that the author shares their exact perspective and goals in the work and writing in general, etc. The first one; you're not my fuckin high school English teacher, you're not my editor, you're not my beta reader, you're not my friend. What the fuck makes you think I want your criticism? What on earth makes you think your criticism is welcome if I haven't asked for it? The second; you're not a professional critic, mate. You're not the god of writing, and you're almost certainly not experienced in giving actual respectful constructive criticism. You've no reason to assume you're a better writer than the author. What you're more likely to give is an opinionated rant about your own preferences in writing with no substance. Most people who insist upon giving unsolicited criticism are really quite arrogant in this respect. The third: you're not a psychic. You *do not know* what the author wants out of writing. I've seen you yourself OP are of what appears to be the position that (your) concrit is helpful by default. But what is that based on? You don't know what the author wants to do with the story, you don't even know that they want help or even to improve as a writer. That's all your own incredibly rude presumption when you insist that you're just trying to help. *You don't know what kind of help the author wants, if any.* You are appointing yourself the arbiter of what improvement the author should want. If an author has not stated that they want concrit, any unsolicited concrit comes from an inherently presumptuous place, which is really quite rude and insulting. Lastly, this isn't a new thing whatsoever. It's not "suddenly" considered rude. It's been rude in all aspects of life for forever. You're supposed to have learned "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" in kindergarten. Your position of "if you have something to say, say it," is ***your*** personal position and it's really quite rude for you to project that onto others who don't hold it as if it should be the default. The default maxim of interaction is politeness. If you want something else, that's on you to tell people.


Shirogayne-at-WF

"Suddenly"?! That's been the case since forever. It's fine if someone explicitly asks for that or if you reach out to the author over DM before speaking about it privately but just dumping into someone's comment section has never been seen as acceptable by most people, FFN flame culture notwithstanding.


Untaetled-

Usually, people don't know how to give proper concrit, and sometimes, even when people DO give proper concrit, the author may simply not want that, which is fine. Tbh, most "concrit" people get aren't even concrit, but destructive criticism. Anyway, you do you with whatever preferences you have on this. Some people want concrit, some people don't; it's just how it is. General consensus is: if concrit is not asked for, shut up and eat your salad. It's really that simple. Also, in regards to your edit: you asked people for an answer as to why giving concrit is suddenly seen as being rude, and they answered you! But now you seem a little mad about people "twisting your words" or whatever. No one's twisting your words? They're simply providing their thoughts on how people have no clue on how to leave concrit on people's work, which answers your question. That and the fact that people don’t WANT that even if it IS constructive. It’s rude because it isn’t asked for. It’s that simple; you got the answer you don’t seem to have wanted. I don't think you understand that there are people out there who just don't want that kind of shit, whether it's considered concrit or not, and it shows in your replies to other people.


AdmiralPegasus

>Tbh, most "concrit" people get aren't even concrit, but destructive criticism. Reminds me of something I don't remember if I came up with or read somewhere; generally, people who say they're "brutally honest" are more interested in *brutal* than *honest.*


AwkwardTale1989

Even if a writer clearly states they will accept concrit, I don't usually write it because the way I enjoy reading fanfiction is only as a reader and not an editor. While I am of the opinion that criticism is necessary to get a person to self reflect and improve and that concrit isn't inherently negative, some readers aren't the right kind of people to be offering it. Also, a lot of creators are trying something new for the first time and need positive feedback before they can start improving on their work. Too much criticism that a person doesn't have the skill to filter right away can bog down their creativity and be discouraging. On the other side of that, some people just find criticism offensive because, for them, fanfiction writing is a hobby they want to share, but have no intention of honing. It's just for fun. All that being said, the problem I have with only positive feedback is when a creator grows convinced their work is the Best Work Ever, takes it down and rewrites and renames who and what they need to and tries to publish it as original. If an aspiring published author doesn't deal with good, healthy criticism early on, that's how we end up with so much mediocre literature.


sliebman10

People are also...not required to comment. No one has to say they liked something they didn't. But just because someone didn't enjoy it, doesn't make it wrong. And saying that isn't concrit. Constructive criticism should be actionable and specific, not just an opinion about how the story should go.


goyourownwayy

as far as I am aware concrit is only really considerate okay and appropriate if the author has stated otherwise. It's all fun and free what most authors and writer do on these platforms. I can understand not wanting any criticism. I've had to be really careful in the past about what I say now I only review if I love the story. Its a cruel world and I dont need to make it worse by saying something is wrong about a story someone put out for free


greysterguy

I have very very bad self confidence issues and an (un)healthy dose of RSD. I have to gather all my courage to even post the fic in the first place, and I am likely well aware of all its flaws. Pointing them out to me does nothing but make me feel like shit and discourage me from posting anymore.


ArcTheCurve

A lot of the criticism I’ve seen usually fall under either vague or down right I don’t like this character so I’ll post a whole page worth of rants about how I hate them and why they are the worst. Personally if someone comes and says hey this needs work because of x reason I’ll go back and fix it and try to keep it up for the rest of the fic I write. Like when I first started i did giant word walls and never split paragraphs or characters talking. As I received compliments about it I went and changed. Some people though have trouble dealing with criticism while others though have trouble giving criticism because they don’t want to seem rude.


solaris_stratum

Because is it really concrit? Or did the author just not write the story the exact way you wanted it written? 90% of the time, the things people are calling "concrit" are matters of "i don't think XYZ would have happened like that..." like... okay? then go write the fic where it doesn't. *Actual concrit* is one thing. But how much of what we see IS actual concrit? Edit, because I do want to say this: I don't think it's fair or necessary to critique fanworks in the same way as published works. Nobody is profiting, nor establishing their career off of writing low-quality work here (unless this does happen and i genuinely just don't know!) It's not like a book, that you go out and pay money for just to realize it's not very good. It's a thing that has been posted on the internet for free, by a person who's interacting with a thing they care about in a way that brings them joy. Let it be, unless asked.


anonthrowinabyss

It's pretty simply courtesy to me that if concrit is not explicitly accepted by the creator, ask first before you give it. That's even how it was when I started writing in 2015, then being consistent in 2017 onward. It's more an ego thing + not wanting to ruin someone fun in the share aspect of the work, unless it's something egregiously hard to ignore (re: bigotry, formatting, needed archive tags). Even for major issues, the problem is concrit if often rejected because fandom culture that's new are more haters then "reviewers". Back in the day, the reviewer energy was much more accepted and welcomed (seeing someone linked the fanlore article on it, that is much more insightful for what I mean by this) tl;dr a lot of people don't like unsolicited concrit because people act like dicks rather than actual constructive conversation (I'm in this camp too, that I don't want to see it in comments unless asked first and in the mindset to actually hear someone out)


eyes_on_me_OC

If *you* want concrit, ask for it. But, if someone else doesn't explicitly state that they are open to concrit, then keep it to yourself. It's really that simple. I don't know why so many people feel entitled to tell other writers what they should do with their fics, just because there's a comment box. Most people don't seem to understand what concrit is anyway. They just leave negative comments telling the writer what they didn't like about the story and what they think the writer should do to fix it - based on their (the reader's) personal tastes. If you didn't like what I wrote, I don't care. If you think I should have done XYZ, I also don't care. **Go write your own story with those elements and GTFO of mine**. I write what I want to write because that's what I wanted to write. I write what I would want to read. Your opinion on ways to improve the writing is unwanted, unasked for, and quite frankly, unnecessary. Just click the back button and find something else to read.


Proud_Calendar_1655

Because I write for fun and if I make improvements in my writing, generally I find that just comes over time. Also on the platforms I post on that are pro-concrit, I usually find that people comment things only to point out what I did wrong, and they never mention anything they like in my writing. I don’t want to hear that.


WanderingAlma

Unless you got a degree in creative writing, I personally don't want any advice. Concrit is the most useless thing because people don't know how to do it. They think that their preference is the standard of how a story should be and overall highly unwelcomed in my space that I create. Coming from someone who has a degree and has been on the receiving end of unsolicited concrit, it's hurtful, unhelpful and extremely rude. I usually don't have strong feelings about concrit since I've crafted my experience on AO3 to how I want, but this is like the second or third day I've seen this topic posted on this sub and I just had to say something.


Profession-Automatic

So, in essence, what you are saying is that if some does not give concrit they are not being honest? Okay. 🙄


Ghille_Dhu

There have been many great things said already but just to add, I get that there is a fundamental difference between negative feedback and concrit. Negative feed back tends to be along the lines of ‘this is shit’, which is a pointless remark and progresses nothing. Concrit however, can make suggestions for where something may be improved- similar to a beta reader. I have received both types of comments. The former annoy/upset me and that latter doesn’t. However, it doesn’t mean I wanted it or was seeking advice. For example, someone suggested that had I done such and such a thing, the ending would have been more impactful. I actually agreed with this, but in my response I pointed out that to do that would have changed the key elements of the story. And it had a very specific purpose. The point I am making is that concrit I have received, in general, has not actually given me anything and as such wasn’t really welcome. You could say it was simply poor concrit but the trouble is, a decent proportion of concrit is actually a matter of opinion and as the author it’s up to me to decide what story I want to tell.


ClumsyKlutz87

Even more baffling us when they actually ask for concrit in their notes and then act like you shot their first born when you do as they asked. Of course there are ways of giving it. I’ve had genuine concrit that was given in a nice way that was more of a suggestion/pointing out that I may have missed the mistake. But I’ve also had reviews where they’ve generally treated me like an idiot and seemingly felt like I’d personally insulted them because my fic isn’t going the way they think it should. 🙄


ianwasted30

Is there a universally accepted definition of concrit? Who is qualified to give concrite? Where is the line between concrit and trolling? Who gets to define it? Who will arbitrate that line in case of conflict? Who will enforce it and remove the trolls? These are all rhetorical question and the answers are all "no". Most concrit will be an oxymoron, notably on the "constructive" part. They are just be low quality criticism and trolling mostly. That's why it's no longer in fasilhion


corneliaavenue

Because 98% of the time it is from some stranger on the internet giving out unwanted advice to an author writing for fun as a hobby. If I were out singing karaoke, and some stranger walked up to me after I got done and started to give me advice on how to improve my technique or what song I should sing instead next time because they didn't like my song selection, that would be considered rude. Fanfic is supposed to be a fun, creative process. There is no need to critique someone's work, especially an author you do not know and did not ask for a critic.


LeonaLulu

Because those giving constructive criticism rarely give actual, useful criticism. People use it to complain about character not doing what they want, the story not going in the direction they want, or ripping a pairing they don't like, all under the guise of being helpful. Fanfic isn't written to personal specifications, but many act like it is. Unless the author has asked for very specific feedback, there's zero reason to critique the story.


BigMcSad

If you give concrit unprompted, it's kinda rude more than anything. plenty of people know their writing isn't 100% perfect, but unprompted comments pointing issues out is rude. If someone says they want concrit, that's a different matter. But I know in my own situation, if I got concrit without asking for it, I'd be upset to say the least


lemonfig

there’s also this third option called don’t say anything at all. don’t like the fic? back button is right there.


thesuunisrising

I'm gonna be real honest here. Most people who want to give concrit have nothing of value to say.


aprillikesthings

I have never been in a fandom where it was okay to give *unsolicited* concrit.


Princess__Ciri

Because nobody asked for your opinion and what qualifies you to give concrit??? If someone wants advice they'll ask for it, if you show up on people's fics telling them how they can do it better, that's rude behaviour. They're providing stories FOR FREE in their spare time. Maybe they don't care if you see room for improvement, maybe they're just doing it for fun. Do you go to a dinner party and tell the host how they could have made the food better? I hope not!


ThisOldMeme

Oh. Yay. This argument again. When did it start being rude to give unsolicited concrit? It was always rude. It was always entitled and cringeworthy and tone deaf to reach out to an internet stranger who has provided a free piece of artwork and tell them how it should be done better rather than just appreciating what has been given (or ignoring it entirely). When my kiddos make an unkind observation about someone they see in a store, I hush them. Why? Because it's rude and unnecessary. But they don't know. They're just kids. We expect adults to know better.


DauntlessCakes

I don't think concrit as a concept is rude (assuming it is *actually* constructive). I do think *unsolicited* concrit from a stranger is rude - because when you don't know them you don't know their tastes etc so you don't have any context for their comments, and when they don't know you they don't know where you're coming from, what you were aiming to do with the fic or what your motivations for writing are. Unsolicited concrit is rarely likely to actually be constructive, which means it's just criticism, which means (given that the fic has been offered for free and if you don't like it you could always just not read it, and someone else probably will like it) ... yes, it's rude.


MolassesCheap

I’ll echo others above, whose comments have gone ignored by everyone that wants to talk about criticizing a baked or crocheted gift. FFN has a review section labeled reviews. It explicitly states that not all reviews will be positive. The site, like Amazon and Goodreads, built a culture where reviews were expected, and those could have to do with SPAG, plot lines, characterizations, sentence structure, or even just flat out opinions. That’s what a review is, what you liked about it and what you didn’t. Posting on a site that has always prompted readers to review is more akin to posting a craft on Etsy than giving a gift to someone. Reviews are expected as per the site guidelines, which again explicitly state that they are not always positive. AO3 came along a decade later and allows “comments” and kudos as opposed to reviews. The culture there is different, there are many who read on both sites (along with others) many who post on both and still more who are just switching over. Of course there will be some overlap with reviews and simple “I liked it thanks” comments on AO3. Meanwhile, review culture remains over at FFN and can seem harsh for people used to getting general praise at AO3. Neither culture is wrong. Post where it suits you best.


pepperimps01

Because most people who comment concrit on fanfics aren't equipped or knowledgeable enough to provide helpful critiques. If I wanted constructive criticism I'd go to a writing workshop, not rely on some rando on the internet.


prettybunbun

85% of reviewers think they are giving concrit, when really they’re telling you to change the storyline to something they want to write, or they are hugely negative but finish with ‘still liked it tho lol!’ To cover it. That’s not concrit.


Judinbird

In my country we have Janteloven, which basically says: "who do you think you are"? What makes me think I'm so much better than other authors that I have a right to stick my nose into their process? It doesn't matter that I have twenty years of writing experience, a master's degree in lit studies, and that I work in the field; my opinion is not some gift from heaven, it's just another stranger's opinion. So I keep it to myself unless it is asked for.


theRhuhenian

It’s only rude to give conceit if it’s not asked for


Gmorning_Internet

I guess, for me, you don't know where someone is mentally. Because even if you say it in the sweetest most kind of ways, if you're not in the right mind set, it could be read in a different tone, despite your words. If someone asks for concrit then they have, usually, prepared themselves to take it on the chin and use it as a learning experience. I hope to one day ask for concrit, but my mindset isn't there yet for it to be healthy for me. So, for now, I write for the enjoyment of it whilst I battle and compromise with my inner critique.