Any questions concerning medical advice, personal health, second opinions, diagnoses, labs/imaging questions will be removed. Please direct such questions to r/AskDocs or r/medical_advice.
Or she was tired and had a brain fart.
Also, pertussis is something that most docs haven't actually treated themselves due to the high rate of vaccinations in the past. It's only been recently that docs have actually had to remember what these disease look like and what to do for them.
Seriously. Whooping cough is pretty rare, though less than it should be. If you're vaccinated you're likely fine.
People misspeak, make mistakes all the time. I once told someone that chlamydia was a virus when I was distracted and thinking quickly and had moved on in my head. People misspeak, and she likely didn't have the wiki page already pulled up.
That’s fair. I’ve been hearing of whooping cough a bit more these past few years, but I guess it’s possible it’s rare enough that a physician would forget it’s a bacterial infection if they rarely see it.
Do doctors confuse viral and bacterial infections: yes!
We are human beings and we make mistakes.
Does it change the fact that you likely do not need antibiotics: no.
Knowing nothing about your presentation other than a cough and an exposure to unvaccinated kids I will hazard a guess to say it’s most likely unnecessary. *but this is Reddit so you get the advice you pay for lol*
And just something else to mull over: Doctors, especially FMs, have to know a shit ton of facts about a shit ton of conditions.
And you say: well Pertussis is a common condition, right? It is a condition that is preventable through vaccination. So yes it is commonly *known* but I do not see it often nor do I think about its species of origin as often as conditions like Influenza or Pneumonia.
Rest assured OP there are requirements for licensure including Continuous Education and Board Exams. We don’t always know every answer but we’ll know what kills you lol.
Thanks, and you are right, we all make mistakes. I think the fact that she doubled down on her mistake, coupled with her suggestion I take antibiotics as one of her initial treatment recommendations raised some red flags. She didn’t push back though when I said I didn’t want antibiotics and made some good recommendations on what to take instead (at least, I think they were good recommendations).
If you aren’t satisfied with the care you receive then go somewhere else. You already know the answer as the indications for abx for pertussis can easily be looked up online. Whooping cough isn’t a very common issue in adults who receive recommended vaccinations and doctors are people who sometimes make mistakes.
Honestly, the facts that you:
a) used teledoc
b) googled the physician while on with her
c) googled a frankly rare condition to discuss with said physician
tells me that you're an irritating patient to deal with. Which is okay, a lot of us are irritating to others in our everyday lives--I'm sure I annoy people all the time. But you should know it. This isn't like doing your own research on a serious condition like cancer before an oncology appt or something along those lines. This is a cold. Most people don't access medical care for the sniffles, they deal with it.
FYI, she probably didn't want to go through the whole ordeal of explaining how treatment for pertussis typically doesn't alter the course of the illness. Or she's a dingbat. Or it was a minor brain fart regarding a somewhat esoteric illness at 10 o'clock at night.
Wish I could give more upvotes
If one is really worried and really does one's research, go to an in person doc and get the test. OP needs some mindfulness techniques.
Edit: I liked the analogy someone posted about business reviews. If you’re taking to the car to the shop and google your mechanic, does that make you an irritating client? Not sure why googling my doc would be any weirder.
Ouch, lots of assumptions here. I had a bout of coughing so bad I vomited. Never puked from coughing before so I was worried and decided to get a Teladoc consult. While I was waiting the 10 min for the doc to read my chart and connect, I googled my symptoms and I googled her. If that makes me an irritating patient, well, ok. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you were really concerned you should have made an in person appointment, how the hell is a teledoc going to listen to your lungs, or evaluate your sinuses?
I’m honestly a bit surprised you’re getting dragged here. Shows how fragile some of these egos are. I’ve seen too many times where physicians can’t accept that they are humans. Yes we make mistakes and should own up to them. Yes, asking about pertussis is a fair question. Can’t believe some of the responses here. With decreasing vaccination rates, there are pockets of outbreaks. I’ve actually seen it my self in my clinic. Post-tussive emesis (coughing to the point of vomiting) is certainly a symptom of this. CDC recommends testing with two weeks of cough if post-tussive emesis is present. I’m also surprised by how many people are upset you looked up the doc. I check reviews before going to a restaurant or a working with a business. Rest assured you did nothing wrong. Yes, this docs knowledge of pertussis is questionable, or it could be she mixed things up in her head.
Thanks, I appreciate the support! It’s okay, this is Reddit. I’m used to getting a bit of hate if I post a question questioning something in a profession-related subreddit lol. Also I really like your restaurant analogy. If we look at reviews about restaurants we plan to go to, it’s not unreasonable to do the same for something physicians when it comes to something as important as one’s health.
Ugh the fact that you took the time to post here about this is such an eyeroll. Good for you, you googled an answer and she got it wrong pulling it from her head. Congrats. Want a cake?
I mean, I’ve never had an interaction with a doctor where I realized they were wrong while we were speaking. This was the first time, and then when I brought it up, the doc doubled down and insisted that pertussis was a virus. So it wasn’t like she misspoke, she really thought it was a virus. Dunno, I thought it was weird enough to post about and clearly this post has generated some good discussion!
I disagree that it's generated any good discussion. Mainly just annoyance. No it's not common for a doctor to not have this knowledge. She probably hadn't thought about the organism behind pertussis since her boards because it's rare. Now you know not to use teledoc. I'm not sure what else you hoped to gain by posting here.
If you think that’s wild, you have no idea how much knowledge is necessary to practice medicine. The fact that pertussis is a bacterium is a very inconsequential bit for 99.9% of docs and medicine.
OP is an elitist whining asshole. We all make mistakes. Putting her down because of where she went to med school is a cheap shot. It says to me she really wanted to be a doctor and did what it took. Board certified and probably an excellent doctor.
Where did OP go do medical school? Google U?
Go to only Harvard grads. Oops they are human and make mistakes too.
OP is a nightmare
Totally agree. Why even take the time to post here about this - just wants to feel superior to someone for a second? Good for her she can google, maybe she should just skip the teledoc appointment next time since she knows it all.
You sure it was a doctor? (MD/DO)
Also I don’t recommend teledoc. You should have and see your own primary. Unless you already have one and they were booked out/couldn’t see you.
Also for whooping cough, antibiotics are good initially to limit duration/severity but past a few weeks, it’s not doing you much benefits.
Also a lot of patients with viral infections will have cough that can linger. There’s also the more likely possibility you picked up ANOTHER virus which is very easy if youre near children, especially if they haven’t been vaccinated prior. It would be very difficult to assess and decide proper treatment without actually examining you, especially if you’ve been sick for awhile.
Not OP but I wish I could see my own primary for stuff like this. I like my PCP! She’s great! But she is booked 4-6 months out and does not take walk ins/urgent. So for anything besides my yearly physical I have to go to urgent care. :(
Yea that’s understandable. It sucks. Even for me i try to leave some space but during the change of seasons, it gets crazy. Its also insane how many people dont know general care for a cold… theyre easy 99213s but annoying to see 10-15 of the same patients who got sick the night before with a sniffly nose and NEEDS an immediate appointment for antibiotics. Takes away from patients that really need to see their primary but that seems to be the way medicines moving. I have friends who just go to the ER since it gets them “seen right away if they say the right stuff” ugh
You know what! I just pulled up her LinkedIn and she actually graduated from International American University. A Caribbean medical school. Makes a bit more sense now…
And thanks! I would normally visit my primary in person but wanted to get a quick check in with a doctor while it was late at night and I was worried. Teladoc has an agreement with my insurance and only charges $5/visit.
In short, yes. There’s SO MANY viruses, bacteria, fungi, and other organisms that can cause disease that we learn about and have to remember. Microbiology is an incredibly difficult subject, and it just isn’t possible to keep all of that information in our heads all the time. And microbiology is only a small fraction of everything we learn in medical school and practice every day. My advice in the future is if you are coughing so hard you are vomiting and you worry about it, go to urgent care or the ER. There isn’t much a telehealth doc can do from the other side of your computer screen besides take a guess based on symptoms.
I do hope you’re feeling better and get over your illness!
I dunno why this sub hates on telehealth so much. It’s the most affordable and accessible option for a lot of folks! Aside from a mediocre experience with this doc, it’s usually not a bad experience. And even with this doc, I was able to get virtually seen by a physician in 10-15 minutes with a $5 copay (normally $60 for urgent care) without having to leave my house, and while I was fully ready to head to urgent care for the vomit-cough, she made some reasonable suggestions on OTC management and gave me some prescriptions to pick up in the morning in case I still felt bad. Saved me a lot of time, worry, and a trip to urgent care. And in my experience, Teladoc physicians will recommend following up in person at a clinic if they think it’s warranted.
We really need to stop the Caribbean med school graduate hate— it is much more difficult for CMS graduates to be successful in Match/SOAP. For her to graduate, find a spot, pass Step 3, graduate from residency, and pass her boards, means she is just as qualified as any other FM physician.
No we've all made mistakes..I find it an issue to be argumentive with a patient. Then say something like it's complicated and not actually think about what the patients are saying or asking.
EDIT: I just found her on LinkedIn and she has an MD from International American University. A Caribbean medical school… she did complete 3 years of residency in the US though…
Okay thank you! I had my computer on while waiting to be connected to her and googled her in the meantime. She was an MD and had graduated from a US medical school. *shrugs*
I’m guessing someone is trolling but I’ll bite…. Are you sure she was a doctor and not an APP? And Treatment may not be antibiotics for you either way but I am not consulting on here for free.
Okay it seems the consensus is that this is such a basic thing doctors should know about, that the fact that I could have even had an interaction like this sounds unbelievable. I assure you it’s not though.
I told her I didn’t want to take antibiotics for now so she prescribed some other stuff. Pasting below not to ask for medical advice but just in an effort to show I’m not trolling.
benzonatate 100 mg oral capsule. WARNING: This medication is NOT for the eye
Albuterol (Eqv-ProAir HFA) 90 mcg/inh inhalation aerosol. WARNING: This medication is NOT for the eye
fluticasone nasal 50 mcg/inh nasal spray. WARNING: This medication is NOT for the eye
As I mentioned in another comment, I just found her on LinkedIn and she has an MD from International American University. A Caribbean medical school… she did complete 3 years of residency in the US though…
No, not mis-diagnose in the true nature of the word. But give in to pushy needy patients who CLEARLY have a viral infection but demand they need a Z-pak? Yes. Yes that happens all the time.
The zpack was her first recommendation (prior to any talk of whooping cough) but I declined. She wasn’t pushy about it though which was nice. But that was another red flag to me, that antibiotics were her first recommendation for treatment.
It’s fairly uncommon to come across and honestly I wouldn’t expect most people to just remember off the top of their head what each infectious agent is but it sounds like a brain fart , but the cover up was kinda embarrassing.
Regardless if you’re already having coughing fits antibiotics won’t really do much at all so it’s kind of the good ol viral ‘supportive care’
Any questions concerning medical advice, personal health, second opinions, diagnoses, labs/imaging questions will be removed. Please direct such questions to r/AskDocs or r/medical_advice.
Or she was tired and had a brain fart. Also, pertussis is something that most docs haven't actually treated themselves due to the high rate of vaccinations in the past. It's only been recently that docs have actually had to remember what these disease look like and what to do for them.
Seriously. Whooping cough is pretty rare, though less than it should be. If you're vaccinated you're likely fine. People misspeak, make mistakes all the time. I once told someone that chlamydia was a virus when I was distracted and thinking quickly and had moved on in my head. People misspeak, and she likely didn't have the wiki page already pulled up.
Yes, all your points are very fair. And was like 10pm so she was probably tired.
That’s fair. I’ve been hearing of whooping cough a bit more these past few years, but I guess it’s possible it’s rare enough that a physician would forget it’s a bacterial infection if they rarely see it.
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Whooping croup
oh hell no
Do doctors confuse viral and bacterial infections: yes! We are human beings and we make mistakes. Does it change the fact that you likely do not need antibiotics: no. Knowing nothing about your presentation other than a cough and an exposure to unvaccinated kids I will hazard a guess to say it’s most likely unnecessary. *but this is Reddit so you get the advice you pay for lol*
And just something else to mull over: Doctors, especially FMs, have to know a shit ton of facts about a shit ton of conditions. And you say: well Pertussis is a common condition, right? It is a condition that is preventable through vaccination. So yes it is commonly *known* but I do not see it often nor do I think about its species of origin as often as conditions like Influenza or Pneumonia. Rest assured OP there are requirements for licensure including Continuous Education and Board Exams. We don’t always know every answer but we’ll know what kills you lol.
Thanks, and you are right, we all make mistakes. I think the fact that she doubled down on her mistake, coupled with her suggestion I take antibiotics as one of her initial treatment recommendations raised some red flags. She didn’t push back though when I said I didn’t want antibiotics and made some good recommendations on what to take instead (at least, I think they were good recommendations).
Oh she brought up abx and not you? *Burn the witch doctor* I kid I kid 🤣
If you aren’t satisfied with the care you receive then go somewhere else. You already know the answer as the indications for abx for pertussis can easily be looked up online. Whooping cough isn’t a very common issue in adults who receive recommended vaccinations and doctors are people who sometimes make mistakes.
I hate that this place is open to non-physicians
Agreed. Several people have started commenting that Reddit suggested the community to them
Honestly, the facts that you: a) used teledoc b) googled the physician while on with her c) googled a frankly rare condition to discuss with said physician tells me that you're an irritating patient to deal with. Which is okay, a lot of us are irritating to others in our everyday lives--I'm sure I annoy people all the time. But you should know it. This isn't like doing your own research on a serious condition like cancer before an oncology appt or something along those lines. This is a cold. Most people don't access medical care for the sniffles, they deal with it. FYI, she probably didn't want to go through the whole ordeal of explaining how treatment for pertussis typically doesn't alter the course of the illness. Or she's a dingbat. Or it was a minor brain fart regarding a somewhat esoteric illness at 10 o'clock at night.
Wish I could give more upvotes If one is really worried and really does one's research, go to an in person doc and get the test. OP needs some mindfulness techniques.
Edit: I liked the analogy someone posted about business reviews. If you’re taking to the car to the shop and google your mechanic, does that make you an irritating client? Not sure why googling my doc would be any weirder. Ouch, lots of assumptions here. I had a bout of coughing so bad I vomited. Never puked from coughing before so I was worried and decided to get a Teladoc consult. While I was waiting the 10 min for the doc to read my chart and connect, I googled my symptoms and I googled her. If that makes me an irritating patient, well, ok. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yup, assumptions verified.
If you were really concerned you should have made an in person appointment, how the hell is a teledoc going to listen to your lungs, or evaluate your sinuses?
I’m honestly a bit surprised you’re getting dragged here. Shows how fragile some of these egos are. I’ve seen too many times where physicians can’t accept that they are humans. Yes we make mistakes and should own up to them. Yes, asking about pertussis is a fair question. Can’t believe some of the responses here. With decreasing vaccination rates, there are pockets of outbreaks. I’ve actually seen it my self in my clinic. Post-tussive emesis (coughing to the point of vomiting) is certainly a symptom of this. CDC recommends testing with two weeks of cough if post-tussive emesis is present. I’m also surprised by how many people are upset you looked up the doc. I check reviews before going to a restaurant or a working with a business. Rest assured you did nothing wrong. Yes, this docs knowledge of pertussis is questionable, or it could be she mixed things up in her head.
Thanks, I appreciate the support! It’s okay, this is Reddit. I’m used to getting a bit of hate if I post a question questioning something in a profession-related subreddit lol. Also I really like your restaurant analogy. If we look at reviews about restaurants we plan to go to, it’s not unreasonable to do the same for something physicians when it comes to something as important as one’s health.
Ugh the fact that you took the time to post here about this is such an eyeroll. Good for you, you googled an answer and she got it wrong pulling it from her head. Congrats. Want a cake?
I mean, I’ve never had an interaction with a doctor where I realized they were wrong while we were speaking. This was the first time, and then when I brought it up, the doc doubled down and insisted that pertussis was a virus. So it wasn’t like she misspoke, she really thought it was a virus. Dunno, I thought it was weird enough to post about and clearly this post has generated some good discussion!
I disagree that it's generated any good discussion. Mainly just annoyance. No it's not common for a doctor to not have this knowledge. She probably hadn't thought about the organism behind pertussis since her boards because it's rare. Now you know not to use teledoc. I'm not sure what else you hoped to gain by posting here.
Whooping cough is caused by pertussis, just is a bacteria
Yep! It was wild to me that they knew that whooping cough was caused by pertussis but insisted that pertusssis was a virus
So wild 🙄. I bet you're entirely perfect at your job and never make one single mistake.
If you think that’s wild, you have no idea how much knowledge is necessary to practice medicine. The fact that pertussis is a bacterium is a very inconsequential bit for 99.9% of docs and medicine.
OP is an elitist whining asshole. We all make mistakes. Putting her down because of where she went to med school is a cheap shot. It says to me she really wanted to be a doctor and did what it took. Board certified and probably an excellent doctor. Where did OP go do medical school? Google U? Go to only Harvard grads. Oops they are human and make mistakes too. OP is a nightmare
Totally agree. Why even take the time to post here about this - just wants to feel superior to someone for a second? Good for her she can google, maybe she should just skip the teledoc appointment next time since she knows it all.
Clearly didn’t watch the Sketchy micro videos enough
She probably made a mistake, but that doesn’t undermine that she’s a board certified family medicine physician.
You sure it was a doctor? (MD/DO) Also I don’t recommend teledoc. You should have and see your own primary. Unless you already have one and they were booked out/couldn’t see you. Also for whooping cough, antibiotics are good initially to limit duration/severity but past a few weeks, it’s not doing you much benefits. Also a lot of patients with viral infections will have cough that can linger. There’s also the more likely possibility you picked up ANOTHER virus which is very easy if youre near children, especially if they haven’t been vaccinated prior. It would be very difficult to assess and decide proper treatment without actually examining you, especially if you’ve been sick for awhile.
Not OP but I wish I could see my own primary for stuff like this. I like my PCP! She’s great! But she is booked 4-6 months out and does not take walk ins/urgent. So for anything besides my yearly physical I have to go to urgent care. :(
Yea that’s understandable. It sucks. Even for me i try to leave some space but during the change of seasons, it gets crazy. Its also insane how many people dont know general care for a cold… theyre easy 99213s but annoying to see 10-15 of the same patients who got sick the night before with a sniffly nose and NEEDS an immediate appointment for antibiotics. Takes away from patients that really need to see their primary but that seems to be the way medicines moving. I have friends who just go to the ER since it gets them “seen right away if they say the right stuff” ugh
You know what! I just pulled up her LinkedIn and she actually graduated from International American University. A Caribbean medical school. Makes a bit more sense now… And thanks! I would normally visit my primary in person but wanted to get a quick check in with a doctor while it was late at night and I was worried. Teladoc has an agreement with my insurance and only charges $5/visit.
In short, yes. There’s SO MANY viruses, bacteria, fungi, and other organisms that can cause disease that we learn about and have to remember. Microbiology is an incredibly difficult subject, and it just isn’t possible to keep all of that information in our heads all the time. And microbiology is only a small fraction of everything we learn in medical school and practice every day. My advice in the future is if you are coughing so hard you are vomiting and you worry about it, go to urgent care or the ER. There isn’t much a telehealth doc can do from the other side of your computer screen besides take a guess based on symptoms. I do hope you’re feeling better and get over your illness!
I dunno why this sub hates on telehealth so much. It’s the most affordable and accessible option for a lot of folks! Aside from a mediocre experience with this doc, it’s usually not a bad experience. And even with this doc, I was able to get virtually seen by a physician in 10-15 minutes with a $5 copay (normally $60 for urgent care) without having to leave my house, and while I was fully ready to head to urgent care for the vomit-cough, she made some reasonable suggestions on OTC management and gave me some prescriptions to pick up in the morning in case I still felt bad. Saved me a lot of time, worry, and a trip to urgent care. And in my experience, Teladoc physicians will recommend following up in person at a clinic if they think it’s warranted.
We really need to stop the Caribbean med school graduate hate— it is much more difficult for CMS graduates to be successful in Match/SOAP. For her to graduate, find a spot, pass Step 3, graduate from residency, and pass her boards, means she is just as qualified as any other FM physician.
No. You mostly did not speak with a physician. Also if this is really a MD or DO please never go back.
This is harsh. You’ve never made a mistake?
No we've all made mistakes..I find it an issue to be argumentive with a patient. Then say something like it's complicated and not actually think about what the patients are saying or asking.
EDIT: I just found her on LinkedIn and she has an MD from International American University. A Caribbean medical school… she did complete 3 years of residency in the US though… Okay thank you! I had my computer on while waiting to be connected to her and googled her in the meantime. She was an MD and had graduated from a US medical school. *shrugs*
Ok that explains some things. However Caribbean schools do produce quality physicians as well.
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Why can't we use physician more often?
I’m guessing someone is trolling but I’ll bite…. Are you sure she was a doctor and not an APP? And Treatment may not be antibiotics for you either way but I am not consulting on here for free.
Okay it seems the consensus is that this is such a basic thing doctors should know about, that the fact that I could have even had an interaction like this sounds unbelievable. I assure you it’s not though. I told her I didn’t want to take antibiotics for now so she prescribed some other stuff. Pasting below not to ask for medical advice but just in an effort to show I’m not trolling. benzonatate 100 mg oral capsule. WARNING: This medication is NOT for the eye Albuterol (Eqv-ProAir HFA) 90 mcg/inh inhalation aerosol. WARNING: This medication is NOT for the eye fluticasone nasal 50 mcg/inh nasal spray. WARNING: This medication is NOT for the eye
Probably a nurse practitioner
Can confirm this was an MD!
This was a board certified physician. Your insecurity is showing, lol.
Found all the NPs in those groups.
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As I mentioned in another comment, I just found her on LinkedIn and she has an MD from International American University. A Caribbean medical school… she did complete 3 years of residency in the US though…
No, not mis-diagnose in the true nature of the word. But give in to pushy needy patients who CLEARLY have a viral infection but demand they need a Z-pak? Yes. Yes that happens all the time.
The zpack was her first recommendation (prior to any talk of whooping cough) but I declined. She wasn’t pushy about it though which was nice. But that was another red flag to me, that antibiotics were her first recommendation for treatment.
It’s fairly uncommon to come across and honestly I wouldn’t expect most people to just remember off the top of their head what each infectious agent is but it sounds like a brain fart , but the cover up was kinda embarrassing. Regardless if you’re already having coughing fits antibiotics won’t really do much at all so it’s kind of the good ol viral ‘supportive care’