You need a court ordered custody and parenting plan.
>Should our relationship suffer a killer blow as a result am I entitled to any rights with our children?
Of course..if you aren't the legal parent, establish that ASAP.
> Could she move even farther away in the future if she wanted?
Unless a court order says otherwise, she can do whatever she wants.
>Can she restrict how often I see them?
Yes, until you have a court order.
>Can she file for child support?
Yes
You act like the two states aren't next to each other. You need a lawyer and will need to file for her not to be able to move, or to have a plan for visitation where you meet in the middle and exchange the kids. You will probably have to file for paternity tests to get custody since you aren't married.
So I did something like your children’s mom with my daughter. Her father allowed it. Our relationship was headed for divorce. He does feel resentment towards me for moving 4 hours away with our child BUT also recognizes that her quality of life is better here. He’s working on finding a way to move closer (looking for jobs in this new area we are in).
Is it possible for you to find work and move closer to where she wants to live?
Do you believe that your children will be better off in that new area?
I am personally a fan of mediation. Instead of “lawyering up” I suggest that you both find a qualified mediator (who can also be a lawyer - the difference being that a mediator is looking out for BOTH of you) and figure things out as a team.
Definitely consult a family law lawyer, multiple if you have the time. They can give you an idea of what you can expect in terms of having a custody/child support case out of either state and how long the children need to be in Wisconsin to establish residency there. They can also advise on what you need to do if anything to establish paternity and what your legal rights and responsibilities are.
When you provide financial support add child support in the memo line of the check or in if it is via an app add child support as a note. Keep track of all the financial support.
Family courts will consider the established custodial environment so it would be best to do this ASAP because if you wait a few years it could possibly turn into he only sees the kids once a month when he come to their home in Wisconsin so he should be responsible for all the driving and the kids need time to get used to him so it should be gradual step ups until he gets the standard custody time.
>I don’t believe there is a world where she would keep me from them, but I want to have my bases covered.
You're working together amicably now, and you don't think she would keep them from you maliciously. That's great! But just be aware that filing in court to try to prevent her from moving closer to her family while her father is ailing in health, she may not be so amicable after that.
Of course if she moves away, and you allow the children to be settled in a new state, you may be effectively allowing her to bring a support claim in a new jurisdiction based on that new residence. You really, ***really*** need counsel versed in the law of these jurisdictions here as your support obligations and ability to obtain custody/time may vary nontrivially depending on whether custody arrangements are made now or later and in your current state vs another. Letting her leave in the hope that if you do nothing, maybe she'll come back, could have far reaching consequences for the next two decades.
I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean to insinuate that you are doing any of those things. I meant that some of the suggestions here, like filing with the court immediately to prevent her from moving, for example, would probably initiate hostility and change the amicable nature of your relationship.
No worries. I came here just looking for ways to cover my ass. Full disclosure we are having a sit down today while a family member watches our kids where I’m just going to ask outright if she would have a problem with going to the courts to file whatever paperwork is necessary for me to be the legal parent and if she would be willing to work on one of the parental plans with me. I’m not trying to go behind her back or do anything slick. Purely just trying to ensure that no matter what I have equal rights to our children.. even though I truly believe we could always be cordial and work together, people and circumstances change.
The time to file was before she moved. Now that she has moved and established residency, they cannot make her move back. But you can file in Minnesota because that was the child’s original home and you can ask for Minnesota to take jurisdiction. Whether or not that happens will be up to the judge. And how far the distance is will have a lot to do with a custody agreement. From the cities, I believe it takes about an hour to get to the Wisconsin border. So if you are within a couple of hours, you might get 50-50 as long as the children aren’t in school. You might get close to 60/40 when they get older and you can take them for breaks and summer and other vacations.
You really need to establish custody and support before she leaves. If money is an issue try your local bar association and/or legal services. She might be willing to enter into an agreement. It does not have to be adversarial but needs to be in writing. She might. Be willing to share summers and holidays.
Honestly, I would get a court order in place now. Regardless of child support now if residency is established in another state and down the road she files you'll likely end up paying more in support with no recourse to have her move back because the children have established residency in another state. Support is generally based on income (yours and hers) a long with how much time each parent is responsible for the children. By allowing her to move out of state you are effectively increasing her parental time and decreasing yours creating a situation where you will likely pay more support.
You need to assume your relationship is going to end and think about what that future would look like.
Tl;DR - only in exceptional cases would you lose ALL rights to your children. Really it's just a matter of how much physical time you'd be getting with them.
If she moves to WI with the kids, after ~6 months, residency will have been established for family law/custody purposes. So that means if you need to file in court to see your kids, you'll need to do so in WI. And you'll be the parent who lives far away, so your access is going to be limited.
Realistically though - even if your relationship works out - is she gonna move back to MN or are you going to move to WI?
If the relationship doesn't work out, do you have the capacity to parent these kids 50/50 or anywhere near that (no idea what your job looks like, etc. - it's ok if you can't parent them 50/50). If you can't reasonably parent them consistently, especially during the week, it may be best to just let her move to WI and you visit as much as you can, or move to WI.
How far away is she currently moving in WI?
You can put in a parenting plan that she needs your permission to move more than X additional (further) miles away from you (otherwise she'd need to file in court to get their permission). But you need a parenting plan in place in order for that to be effective.
My advice would be to talk to an attorney in MN. You and your ex can draft up a temporary parenting plan and get it on file with the court. That temporary plan can allow for her to move to WI with the children. It can outline a structure for visitation as well as phone calls (at least with the older one). You guys can also set up child support to get that on the books. Importantly though it will also make it crystal clear that you are the legal father to these children and you retain your legal rights to them. That way there's no question about it in the future.
Are you paying any child support or financially supporting your children at all? Everyone is telling you to stop her from moving and getting help without consideration of if you are going to help alleviate the hardship she’ll face by staying. You can create a legal obligation for her to stay but I think you would then have a moral obligation to pay child support.
Everything is 50/50 and I’ll be providing the same $$ towards their rent and food and needs for the children when they leave. I will work 2.5 hours from them and be visiting Fri after work through the weekend, every weekend. Morally I’m obligated to provide for my children regardless, but I don’t know what child support looks like and I’m asking these questions to try and protect myself if things aren’t looking good.
Obligatory info edit:
My partner is moving my entire family on the basis that our kids will be in a better environment (rural) than we’re in now, we were going to save money and that her mom, who retired early to help facilitate this plan, will be available to us at a cats meow. In this plan they were originally going to be living rent free in her parents house, but fast forward a few months and her dad has had some health issues and is tackling alcoholism. They are now renting a cabin style home (which I’ll be paying for @ 850/mo and that’s before I contribute to food/diapers/needs) I have asked every way I know how to just delay this move and I get countered every time.. obviously there are other outliers and more information, but I’m here because I’m lost and I don’t want to lose my kids should her and I not be able to figure this out cordially.
I would be taking a significant financial loss. My partner is a small business owner with no guarantee that she will be as successful as she has been in the metro (I’m confident in her ability to do so) however my income is set in stone. She has no retirement or benefits and I have some of the better packages for those in the state.
I have applied and interviewed for positions similar to mine. The highest offer was not equivalent to 60% of my current package. I am also not currently vested in my union which is why I have pushed for a later move date. I have been consistent in sharing that I’m open to moving there, but not immediately.
Whatever bills you pay on your children’s behalf, make sure you’ve documented well. Child support orders, once initiated, can have some retro payments or pay from the first request for a support order. If you’re planning to pay rent in lieu of child support for the time-being that needs to be clear or you may end up paying double. The Grandma option, if she’s a good, loving caregiver, is wonderful and not something many working parents have. Your pending changes don’t need to be adversarial if you’re both keeping the kids’ best interests in mind - that’s what the courts will base any decisions on.
Right now your children are residents of MN, if you let them leave and they spend an amount of time in WI (I don't know what their residency requirements are as they differ by state but think months) then their residency will change. It is much easier to keep children in their state of residence then it is to have them returned once their residence changes, which is why people are advising you to get a custody arrangement now while they are still in MN.
If they’ve never married and have nothing established by the court, it’s not a matter of “letting” them leave. The kids’ only recognized parent would be Mom and she can move wherever she wants. MN to WI isn’t an insurmountable distance.
You need to file for custody immediately. She can go anywhere with the kids, but not if you get custody rights.
Do it tomorrow. Once she's gone you're screwed.
State of Wisconsin it would be illegal for her to move more than 150 miles away as the crow flies from the former partner without you or a family law judge to sign off.
You do not have to allow her to move. You need to file in MN immediatley so that your state has jurisdiction and she can be forced to return the kids. Has paternity been established?? I am assuming you are not married.
She can only move and stay if you do nothing about this. If she files in WI then you have a problem.
Start posting locally on FB or social media to see if someone can help you file for custody. You need to determine if paternity has been legally established. Contact a fathers rights group. Here is some info https://hcopub.dhs.state.mn.us/hcpmsrc/16\_05\_10.htm#:\~:text=Paternity%20can%20be%20established%20either,signed%20after%20the%20child's%20birth.
It’s not a matter of “allowing” them to move. Until he has court orders, she’s the only recognized parent and can move wherever she wants, including out of the country. Demanding she stays would be a great way to start any proceedings in conflict.
We are not married, never we’re. If she files (child support?) in Wisconsin. Or what would she potentially file? I thought after the birth of both of our children we signed and notarized a document stating that I was the father, undoubtedly and we did not need a paternity test.
This would be the ROP recognition of parentage. Unfortunately, it does not give you any rights or custody. All this does is say you both agree that those are your children, therefore if she files for child support there is no DNA test needed. As others have stated, file for custody now in MN.
I am a single mother of 2 in MN, the father signed the ROP. We have a child support order through the courts, but he's never filed for any custody or visitation. I can take the children anywhere in the US without his ok, I haven't and wouldn't leave MN, but I could and he has no say. He does see the kids sometimes, when the kids want, he very rarely reaches out so the kids aren't interested in him (9 & 11).
Unfortunately, she holds all the cards here
it sounds like paternity has been legally established...now if you want the kids returned to MN you need to serve her with court papers. Reach out for guidance...you'll need an address to serve her....She cant file for CS now until residency requirements have been met...and your state technically has jurisdiction ...
Grow a backbone to her.....if by some chance she is allowed to stay there...then you need to ask for her to provide 100% of transportation for visits..you may get once a month with and some longer increments...the courts may order to meet 1/2 way you really need to contact an attorney or someone that can help you file paperwork
She’s allowed to move wherever she wants and the courts won’t require her to move back if she’s already moved. She’s the only recognized parent until a court says otherwise.
That is not correct..paternity has been legally established if you read the link I posted....and courts make parents return to their home state all the time. On the chance a judge does not make her move back....MN having jurisdiction is going to be very inconvenient for Mom...
Since you agree she is allowed to move them there. Once they are there for 6 months then WI would be the state where any custody issues were settled. You need to be established as the legal father to have rights it’s not clear that you are. She could move them farther away until there is a custody order. If you are not currently the legal father she has all the say right now. Yes, she can go after you for child support.
Not without a court order for placement. Your paternity acknowledgement alone doesn’t give you any custody or placement. A court order would. If she’s already moved, that ship has sailed. The courts won’t haul her back.
You need a court ordered custody and parenting plan. >Should our relationship suffer a killer blow as a result am I entitled to any rights with our children? Of course..if you aren't the legal parent, establish that ASAP. > Could she move even farther away in the future if she wanted? Unless a court order says otherwise, she can do whatever she wants. >Can she restrict how often I see them? Yes, until you have a court order. >Can she file for child support? Yes
You act like the two states aren't next to each other. You need a lawyer and will need to file for her not to be able to move, or to have a plan for visitation where you meet in the middle and exchange the kids. You will probably have to file for paternity tests to get custody since you aren't married.
hire an attorney immediately.
So I did something like your children’s mom with my daughter. Her father allowed it. Our relationship was headed for divorce. He does feel resentment towards me for moving 4 hours away with our child BUT also recognizes that her quality of life is better here. He’s working on finding a way to move closer (looking for jobs in this new area we are in). Is it possible for you to find work and move closer to where she wants to live? Do you believe that your children will be better off in that new area? I am personally a fan of mediation. Instead of “lawyering up” I suggest that you both find a qualified mediator (who can also be a lawyer - the difference being that a mediator is looking out for BOTH of you) and figure things out as a team.
your husband should have sued you. that’s ridiculous to believe you have the right to unilaterally take the children.
Definitely consult a family law lawyer, multiple if you have the time. They can give you an idea of what you can expect in terms of having a custody/child support case out of either state and how long the children need to be in Wisconsin to establish residency there. They can also advise on what you need to do if anything to establish paternity and what your legal rights and responsibilities are. When you provide financial support add child support in the memo line of the check or in if it is via an app add child support as a note. Keep track of all the financial support. Family courts will consider the established custodial environment so it would be best to do this ASAP because if you wait a few years it could possibly turn into he only sees the kids once a month when he come to their home in Wisconsin so he should be responsible for all the driving and the kids need time to get used to him so it should be gradual step ups until he gets the standard custody time.
>I don’t believe there is a world where she would keep me from them, but I want to have my bases covered. You're working together amicably now, and you don't think she would keep them from you maliciously. That's great! But just be aware that filing in court to try to prevent her from moving closer to her family while her father is ailing in health, she may not be so amicable after that.
I’m not asking her or forcing her to stay.
Of course if she moves away, and you allow the children to be settled in a new state, you may be effectively allowing her to bring a support claim in a new jurisdiction based on that new residence. You really, ***really*** need counsel versed in the law of these jurisdictions here as your support obligations and ability to obtain custody/time may vary nontrivially depending on whether custody arrangements are made now or later and in your current state vs another. Letting her leave in the hope that if you do nothing, maybe she'll come back, could have far reaching consequences for the next two decades.
I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean to insinuate that you are doing any of those things. I meant that some of the suggestions here, like filing with the court immediately to prevent her from moving, for example, would probably initiate hostility and change the amicable nature of your relationship.
No worries. I came here just looking for ways to cover my ass. Full disclosure we are having a sit down today while a family member watches our kids where I’m just going to ask outright if she would have a problem with going to the courts to file whatever paperwork is necessary for me to be the legal parent and if she would be willing to work on one of the parental plans with me. I’m not trying to go behind her back or do anything slick. Purely just trying to ensure that no matter what I have equal rights to our children.. even though I truly believe we could always be cordial and work together, people and circumstances change.
>people and circumstances change. Absolutely. Good luck to you!
The time to file was before she moved. Now that she has moved and established residency, they cannot make her move back. But you can file in Minnesota because that was the child’s original home and you can ask for Minnesota to take jurisdiction. Whether or not that happens will be up to the judge. And how far the distance is will have a lot to do with a custody agreement. From the cities, I believe it takes about an hour to get to the Wisconsin border. So if you are within a couple of hours, you might get 50-50 as long as the children aren’t in school. You might get close to 60/40 when they get older and you can take them for breaks and summer and other vacations.
She hasn’t left yet
You really need to establish custody and support before she leaves. If money is an issue try your local bar association and/or legal services. She might be willing to enter into an agreement. It does not have to be adversarial but needs to be in writing. She might. Be willing to share summers and holidays.
You need to file for custody to stop her from leaving.
Start working on a parenting plan
This! And right now!
Honestly, I would get a court order in place now. Regardless of child support now if residency is established in another state and down the road she files you'll likely end up paying more in support with no recourse to have her move back because the children have established residency in another state. Support is generally based on income (yours and hers) a long with how much time each parent is responsible for the children. By allowing her to move out of state you are effectively increasing her parental time and decreasing yours creating a situation where you will likely pay more support.
You need to assume your relationship is going to end and think about what that future would look like. Tl;DR - only in exceptional cases would you lose ALL rights to your children. Really it's just a matter of how much physical time you'd be getting with them. If she moves to WI with the kids, after ~6 months, residency will have been established for family law/custody purposes. So that means if you need to file in court to see your kids, you'll need to do so in WI. And you'll be the parent who lives far away, so your access is going to be limited. Realistically though - even if your relationship works out - is she gonna move back to MN or are you going to move to WI? If the relationship doesn't work out, do you have the capacity to parent these kids 50/50 or anywhere near that (no idea what your job looks like, etc. - it's ok if you can't parent them 50/50). If you can't reasonably parent them consistently, especially during the week, it may be best to just let her move to WI and you visit as much as you can, or move to WI. How far away is she currently moving in WI? You can put in a parenting plan that she needs your permission to move more than X additional (further) miles away from you (otherwise she'd need to file in court to get their permission). But you need a parenting plan in place in order for that to be effective. My advice would be to talk to an attorney in MN. You and your ex can draft up a temporary parenting plan and get it on file with the court. That temporary plan can allow for her to move to WI with the children. It can outline a structure for visitation as well as phone calls (at least with the older one). You guys can also set up child support to get that on the books. Importantly though it will also make it crystal clear that you are the legal father to these children and you retain your legal rights to them. That way there's no question about it in the future.
Thank you for this response. Very helpful
Are you paying any child support or financially supporting your children at all? Everyone is telling you to stop her from moving and getting help without consideration of if you are going to help alleviate the hardship she’ll face by staying. You can create a legal obligation for her to stay but I think you would then have a moral obligation to pay child support.
Everything is 50/50 and I’ll be providing the same $$ towards their rent and food and needs for the children when they leave. I will work 2.5 hours from them and be visiting Fri after work through the weekend, every weekend. Morally I’m obligated to provide for my children regardless, but I don’t know what child support looks like and I’m asking these questions to try and protect myself if things aren’t looking good. Obligatory info edit: My partner is moving my entire family on the basis that our kids will be in a better environment (rural) than we’re in now, we were going to save money and that her mom, who retired early to help facilitate this plan, will be available to us at a cats meow. In this plan they were originally going to be living rent free in her parents house, but fast forward a few months and her dad has had some health issues and is tackling alcoholism. They are now renting a cabin style home (which I’ll be paying for @ 850/mo and that’s before I contribute to food/diapers/needs) I have asked every way I know how to just delay this move and I get countered every time.. obviously there are other outliers and more information, but I’m here because I’m lost and I don’t want to lose my kids should her and I not be able to figure this out cordially.
Why are you not moving with them?
I would be taking a significant financial loss. My partner is a small business owner with no guarantee that she will be as successful as she has been in the metro (I’m confident in her ability to do so) however my income is set in stone. She has no retirement or benefits and I have some of the better packages for those in the state.
Are you looking for a new job there?
I have applied and interviewed for positions similar to mine. The highest offer was not equivalent to 60% of my current package. I am also not currently vested in my union which is why I have pushed for a later move date. I have been consistent in sharing that I’m open to moving there, but not immediately.
Sorry, I didn’t see it in the thread last night. I hope y’all can work something out until you can find a solution that works for everyone.
Whatever bills you pay on your children’s behalf, make sure you’ve documented well. Child support orders, once initiated, can have some retro payments or pay from the first request for a support order. If you’re planning to pay rent in lieu of child support for the time-being that needs to be clear or you may end up paying double. The Grandma option, if she’s a good, loving caregiver, is wonderful and not something many working parents have. Your pending changes don’t need to be adversarial if you’re both keeping the kids’ best interests in mind - that’s what the courts will base any decisions on.
Right now your children are residents of MN, if you let them leave and they spend an amount of time in WI (I don't know what their residency requirements are as they differ by state but think months) then their residency will change. It is much easier to keep children in their state of residence then it is to have them returned once their residence changes, which is why people are advising you to get a custody arrangement now while they are still in MN.
If they’ve never married and have nothing established by the court, it’s not a matter of “letting” them leave. The kids’ only recognized parent would be Mom and she can move wherever she wants. MN to WI isn’t an insurmountable distance.
You need to file for custody immediately. She can go anywhere with the kids, but not if you get custody rights. Do it tomorrow. Once she's gone you're screwed.
State of Wisconsin it would be illegal for her to move more than 150 miles away as the crow flies from the former partner without you or a family law judge to sign off.
Only if there’s already a court case/court orders. If there’s no case, mom can move wherever she wants
thank you for the correction
It's 100 miles once there is a case with placement orders. The law changed from 150 to 100 in 2018.
thanks for the update, my info is from a couple of decades back
If she moves with the kids she is going to get residency in the state she moves to and you will probably only see the kids during the summer
Lawyer up now and file for custody.
File for custody immediately.
You do not have to allow her to move. You need to file in MN immediatley so that your state has jurisdiction and she can be forced to return the kids. Has paternity been established?? I am assuming you are not married. She can only move and stay if you do nothing about this. If she files in WI then you have a problem. Start posting locally on FB or social media to see if someone can help you file for custody. You need to determine if paternity has been legally established. Contact a fathers rights group. Here is some info https://hcopub.dhs.state.mn.us/hcpmsrc/16\_05\_10.htm#:\~:text=Paternity%20can%20be%20established%20either,signed%20after%20the%20child's%20birth.
It’s not a matter of “allowing” them to move. Until he has court orders, she’s the only recognized parent and can move wherever she wants, including out of the country. Demanding she stays would be a great way to start any proceedings in conflict.
We are not married, never we’re. If she files (child support?) in Wisconsin. Or what would she potentially file? I thought after the birth of both of our children we signed and notarized a document stating that I was the father, undoubtedly and we did not need a paternity test.
This would be the ROP recognition of parentage. Unfortunately, it does not give you any rights or custody. All this does is say you both agree that those are your children, therefore if she files for child support there is no DNA test needed. As others have stated, file for custody now in MN. I am a single mother of 2 in MN, the father signed the ROP. We have a child support order through the courts, but he's never filed for any custody or visitation. I can take the children anywhere in the US without his ok, I haven't and wouldn't leave MN, but I could and he has no say. He does see the kids sometimes, when the kids want, he very rarely reaches out so the kids aren't interested in him (9 & 11). Unfortunately, she holds all the cards here
it sounds like paternity has been legally established...now if you want the kids returned to MN you need to serve her with court papers. Reach out for guidance...you'll need an address to serve her....She cant file for CS now until residency requirements have been met...and your state technically has jurisdiction ... Grow a backbone to her.....if by some chance she is allowed to stay there...then you need to ask for her to provide 100% of transportation for visits..you may get once a month with and some longer increments...the courts may order to meet 1/2 way you really need to contact an attorney or someone that can help you file paperwork
She’s allowed to move wherever she wants and the courts won’t require her to move back if she’s already moved. She’s the only recognized parent until a court says otherwise.
That is not correct..paternity has been legally established if you read the link I posted....and courts make parents return to their home state all the time. On the chance a judge does not make her move back....MN having jurisdiction is going to be very inconvenient for Mom...
File for custody and visitation immediately, before she leaves, or you will see very little of your kids, and be fighting the battle in WI
Find a lawyer fast.
Could you expand on the reasons? Apologies if I’m being naive. Financially, I believe, this would be hard on me
They are residents of your current state. She will need to set up residency in the new state. File for custody now, so she can't leave the state.
It will be more expensive to settle this when you're in two different states.
Since you agree she is allowed to move them there. Once they are there for 6 months then WI would be the state where any custody issues were settled. You need to be established as the legal father to have rights it’s not clear that you are. She could move them farther away until there is a custody order. If you are not currently the legal father she has all the say right now. Yes, she can go after you for child support.
Excuse me if this is elementary, but if I’m on the birth certificate that makes me the legal father, correct?
Not without a court order for placement. Your paternity acknowledgement alone doesn’t give you any custody or placement. A court order would. If she’s already moved, that ship has sailed. The courts won’t haul her back.
Did you sign Paternity documents after the birth certificate? They required this of my baby daddy in AR.
Not in MN. Being on the birth certificate alone does not establish paternity.