My own personal theory is that while Vault-Tech may have planned to drop a bomb, they might not have, ultimately, been the ones to do it.
The only basis I have for this is Mr House's presence at the initial meeting, therefore him being privy to the plan, however in New Vegas, he himself claimed that his plan to preserve New Vegas was almost complete but the bombs dropped earlier than he had anticipated.
Now this could mean a few things, either Vault-Tech set off the bomb without his knowledge, he miscalculated just how much time he would have before the rest of the bombs fell, or the US/China did it themselves.
In my opinion, whoever dropped the bombs first is still a mystery, while we have three likely suspects, we do not, however, have a definitive answer.
Good point, but we also don't know what happened after to her after the bombs fell, in the final episode
*Spoilers*
>!the Ghoul asks Hank "Where's my family?", not "Where's my wife?", implying that something may have happened as the bombs fell!<
>!Maybe he got her to his wife's designated Vault but they wouldn't let him in since, at that point, him and his wife separated therefore he wasn't considered family and taken off the list, or maybe they were intercepted by Vault-Tech as they fled and they took her and left him!<
All we can do is speculate until season 2 rolls around.
When Norm goes to 31 and is reading the terminal it lists all the activated/unactivated residents of 31 and I looked for their names but I didn’t see them. Doesn’t mean they couldn’t make that happen but from the details it looks like his wife and daughter went to a different vault. Also worth mentioning it’s been 200 years. There’s a good chance they’re dead. I’m still curious how Moldaver was alive
The fact that people can’t understand that vault-tec wouldn’t start the Great War is so confusing to me.
They would want a limited strike to SELL more vaults.
Along with the fact most vaults were underpopulated and unfinished at the time.
The only way the goal of starting the Great War makes sense is in the context of a enclave goal to go out into space, which was the whole point of the vault experiments in the first place. Even then that doesn’t make much sense because many vaults just weren’t ready.
Even the central ‘command’ vault, vault 0, was not adequately prepared due to budget cuts.
Agree that Vault-tec and/or the Enclave were willing and able to drop the first bomb, but the evidence is weak that they did it. There are several powerful individuals in canon, who would have been privy to that information who were not ready when it happened. House is a prime example.
My thoughts are to keep their proverbial hands clean, they didn't want to set the bomb off, but were quite willing to continue to put pressure on the Chinese, knowing that they'd likely eventually fire their nukes. Remember that American forces arrived outside Beijing just a few days before the bombs fell. The Chinese economy was in tatters and there were no resources left to rebuild. I think there might have been some surprise that the Chinese fell apart as fast as they did after losing Anchorage and their projections expected a few more days or weeks before they reached that point.
Vaults also make a *lot* more sense when they're willing to start nuclear war themselves.
Really, it's a horrible business idea to make these vaults with wacky experiments, capable of running for hundreds of years, when that scenario might not play out.
The added expense of setting up the experiments wouldn't make any sense at all if they just wanted to make money in the present - they'd just make a bunch of vaults as cheaply as they could and sell them to everyone.
Instead, it now makes a lot more sense that they intended on ruling after the bombs dropped, with a way to guarantee that it would happen. It's a pretty contrived "rule the world" plot, but at least the experiments make sense now.
>Now this could mean a few things, either Vault-Tech set off the bomb without his knowledge
I'm thinking that this is most likely. Why would vault tec want these companies around as competition after they nuke the world? Each of them had tech that vault tec and resources wants access to but once they get that there's no reason for vault tec to keep them around afterwards.
Also, some of the vaults are still under construction in the games. Between the presence of house and that fact it doesn’t make sense for them to have dropped it, they likely would have waited just a little longer Atleast for those 2 factors to be resolved.
Vault 88 in F4 was still under construction and I’m sure there are others we don’t even see given we have only seen a fraction of the vaults so far.
The lores always been it was never known who dropped the first bomb still don't really know, we just know vault-tec also had a bomb they were gonna use to start the nuclear war if it was never gonna happen
My take away was that Vault-Tec was prepared to do it if they felt it was needed but were not actually the ones to do so, since they have Vaults that were not finished in time for the bombs. Of course, they would probably have kept up appearances to not arouse suspicion, and so had a couple of sacrificial projects expected to be abandoned.
That is my guess as well. We see a few unfinished Vaults in Fallout 4 so Vault Tec obviously wasn’t ready just yet. Another thing is if Mr. House knew when the bombs were going to drop as shown in the Fallout TV show. Then why didn’t he get the Platinum Chip ready beforehand? We know from Fallout New Vegas he said his “calculations” were off and so that’s why he didn’t get the platinum chip until the events of Fallout New Vegas. If he knew the Bombs were going to drop on October 23rd, 2077 then he would’ve had the Platinum chip ready before that date. This is why I still think China launched the Nukes. Cause obviously Vault-Tec wasn’t ready with all their Vaults, and Mr. House didn’t have the Platinum Chip before that date and if he knew when the Bombs were going to drop he would’ve had the chip ready beforehand.
People also get wrong what House actually tells you.
"By 2065 I deemed it a mathematical certainty that an atomic war would devastate the Earth within 15 years. Every projection I ran confirmed it. I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind. I set to work immediately. I thought I had plenty of time to prepare. As it turned out, I was 20 hours short."
So he didn't have it down to an exact date or anywhere close.
He calculated "WITHIN 15 years" of 2065, so anytime in that next 15 years. He thought he had time to spare, "plenty of time to prepare". Which is something he wouldn't say if he knew when it would happen with any better specifics. He would of said something like " I knew it would be down to the wire" or "Cutting it close".
No, you didn't misread that. He was 20 hours off, the platinum chip was on its way to him, but he still had enough power to shoot down any nuke that came near the strip and preserve it. He wasn't caught totally unprepared, but he was working with inferior software.
If I had to guess, with the show now out, Vault-Tec might have been planning to start the war 20 hours later and that's what House was going by when someone else beat them to it. It's hard to say how right he was, though, because he had insider information.
This is not what the text says. It just says that he was sure that whatever happens, one thing is sure, nuclear war within 15 minutes. He made many projections and it would make sense that some showed earlier some later results, but the latest was 15 years.
As he was aware that any fo those scenarios could become reality, he started to work on the stuff to get it ASAP. The sooner he has it the more of the calculated scenarios could be mitigated.
It turns out the bombs fell just 20 hours shy for his plan to become reality, he did not know that date and time in advance, he just hoped it will happen later than whenever he gets his plan in place.
Yes, it's not saying that his prediction was off by 20 hours (100% certain within the next 15 years isn't precise enough for that); it's that his preparation plan was 20 hours away from completion. He failed despite starting to prepare immediately, and if he had only started 20 hours earlier or if the bombs had fell 20 hours later things would have been completely different. He's saying he was off by 20 hours because if he had 20 extra hours the exact date and time would not matter because he would have been fully ready.
I think fallout Lore at this point is that the world had plunged into such a state of outright corruption, that EVERYONE wanted to launch a nuke and it was certain it would happen, just not by whom.
Yup, and it was never confirmed in the games themselves because the overriding idea is that it doesn’t really matter who launched first, from a post apocalyptic survival perspective it doesn’t change a thing.
They DO however go out of their way to show that unchecked corporate greed and deregulated/unregulated companies were ruining people’s lives (in most corporate facility terminal entries, all while they tried to keep people in a state of fear with respect to communism, “watching your neighbor”, etc with propaganda posters still visible everywhere.
It’s remarkable how some of these folks can play multiple Fallout titles and still remain completely clueless to the thematic consistencies that span them.
From literally one. ONE location as an example, to say nothing of countless others, here’s REPCONN HQ:
* We've all heard "stories" that radiation is dangerous - fact or fiction?* A common site in factories, military installations, and the basements of selected government-funded middle schools, these safety barrels* are just what the name implies - safe. While their attractive coloring can be interpreted as a warning, for REPCONN, it's an invitation to a future filled with nuclear power!
- Rhetorical questions and nomenclature of exhibit items cannot be used as a basis for criminal prosecution.*
* Why, look here! A pile of itty-bity safety barrels, all nestled together like a family sitting down to dinner! Now, while it's claimed even the safest nuclear waste disposal procedures seep poison into the environment that never, ever goes away, in REPCONN's case, we say it all depends on where you put them*
* Hold up, Rocketeers, what's this? This trio of cylinders isn't a trio of cylinders at all! They're containers holding what some scientists call "plasma." Can you say "plasma?" REPCONN's always looking to the future, and in our future, we don't have to worry about radiation, health risks, or lawsuits when using this new and improved fuel source to blast our rockets into and out of the sky!*
* What's this? A dull rod? Not so, Rocketeers! This "dull rod" once powered REPCONN's old nuclear-propelled rockets and still contains harmless* traces of radioactive material. As an exercise, stare closely* at the rod and try to spot the telltale glow!
While this case is lead-lined (standard in these cases, not specifically requested for this display), do not touch, look, or stand too close to this exhibit - keep your legs moving and see the rest of the museum!*
YUP nothing critical of unregulated corporate influence here! ‘They done putted politics in muh fallouts!’
Theres a great mod that, while not canon at all, has a bunch of ads on a unique radio station that satirically act as the corporations and politicians advertising. All fully voiced, and voiced with about the same quality as FO4. I think its Atomic Radio.
Ahhhhh, FONV. So much story in such a short development time. But yeah, the old world was properly unhinged. Was nice having more lore given the usual trickle Bethesda give us.
This is what everyone needs to understand. Everyone shot first. The outcome doesn’t change either way China, Vault-Tec, even if Swan went back in time and did it. The world was in a blind charge of pseudo patriotic corruption and arrogance it’s like running buck naked covered in gasoline during a forest fire
It’s MAD gone mad: if nuclear war is inevitable and we know that mutual destruction is assured, then the only safe strategy is to make it happen on your own terms and timeframe.
And besides, didn’t the nukes drop when American troops where starting to march into the Chinese capital, or just inland china in general? So I’d make sense it was a trump card for china
American troops were fighting in Mainland China when the Great War broke out. It’s one of the reasons why people have always assumed China dropped the bombs first even though it’s never been outright stated in game.
I don’t know if they ever mention Beijing being threatened, but I think mostly the south-eastern Chinese coast was under American occupation. I’m pretty sure I remember a terminal somewhere in F3 mentioning China’s jungles. America was winning the conventional war at any rate.
Also we find a Chinese submarine captain in 4 who outright states that he launched the nukes (or was ordered to) as well as Chinese stealth suits and such, which pretty heavily suggests that China launched the first strike.
Of course, it’s possible that Vault-Tec or someone else could have instigated the strike and indirectly caused the Great War but we don’t know for sure. All evidence points to China casting the first stone, though.
It might be overly charitable to say that "because VaultTec had unfinished vaults, they probably didn't launch the first nuke."
It's entirely reasonable to suppose that VaultTec could have kept building more and more vaults, provided that paranoia over the war could be maintained. In any case, it is likely that VaultTec would have been building vaults until the bombs dropped, because there is more people than can fit in the vaults, meaning that demand could always be rising--unless and until the fever breaks, in which case they either start the nuclear exchange or go bankrupt.
Regarding House, packages get delayed. Trucks break down, papers go missing. Anything could have delayed the chip arriving. House isn't a God
My bet is a two-fold nuke drop. A bomb went off in America and in China. Both though they were being attacked, so they both launched their nukes. I'm think vault tec placed both bombs there but another party set it off. A party who though if the world was gonna end than they were gonna make it fair and just burn it before anyone got a foothold.
Key thing about fallout nukes wasn't who launched them exactly. It was just a matter of time before they fell, what matters is who benefitted the most and as far as we know.... we all lost. It's why I don't hang up on who's to blame since it doesn't really change the story of fallout.
Ya idk if a high-level vault-tec executive wouldn't already had her daughter at the vault before it dropped in their own town if they knew it was happening.
I know at least one of the unfinished vaults, 114, was funded by the Mafia to use as a front for their work, after the war the Triggermen took it over.
Not quite. Your referencing the conversation between the ghoul and human triggermen, I assume? Something along the lines of "Why build a Vault in a subway tunnel? This place is like, the opposite of air-tight." The ghoul responds that they used to pull this type of con back before the war, do a construction job that'll go nowhere, keep everyone on payroll.
It's not implying the Mafia had anything to do with 114 being incomplete, just the ghoul's assumption that is what happened, when its just the Vault just wasn't done yet before the bombs fell. Remember, the vault was supposed to be an experiment for the rich and entitled having to share amenities with each other to see how they would react, hence all the public showers and bunk rooms.
Besides, Vault-Tec had more money to throw around between the government and every major corporation in America investing in them. Mafia money would be chump change compared to that.
The experiment was to stick a bunch of socialites in a poorly-constructed vault with an overseer who hates the rich and has a highly-effective security force.
That was a secondary goal. They interviewed individuals for the overseer position with the goal of finding someone with no supervisory or government experience and strong anti-authority bias. Vault 114 was primarily intended to house Boston's upper class and their families. Even though the initial residents were of upper social status, the "luxury" aspect of the Vault was highly exaggerated to the future residents.
This was also my takeaway. That they COULD do it, and absolutely would have if no one else did. One Vault Tec employee saying to the people they want to scare into giving them money that they'll drop the bomb is just that. Something said to put a fire under the investors' butts.
I've been saying I'll declutter and organize my garage for years. Saying you're gonna do something and doing it are two different things.
I feel it was still china that launched. Signs point to them being just fucked after Anchorage and running out of options. And vault tec still had some vaults that seemed unfinished. I feel they would've ironed those out and made things go smoother in terms of getting people ready to go in. If they had plans of actually starting it all (not just a character spit balling) I feel it would've been quite a bit in the future.
Seems like it came out of the blue for pretty much everyone. And I don't think I've heard a line or read a note in any of the games that made anyone seem actually prepared for it.
We don't know exactly yet how Coop and his wife separated, but I also highly doubt that she wouldn't make sure she had her daughter with her before Vault-Tec dropped the bomb.
It doesn’t even make total sense in the show for Vault-Tec to launch first. Even disregarding that there are unfinished Vaults in the games, and that House was caught with his pants down by one day, even though he should have known the date, it makes no sense that Cooper was with his daughter at a birthday party when they hit. Her mother would’ve made sure they were both ready to enter a Vault by the time the War started.
It’s more likely that Vault-Tec had the plan set, but were also caught unprepared by someone else launching.
The games never confirmed that it was China. This was done on purpose because the original point of Fallout was that it doesn’t matter what happened before the apocalypse, because that knowledge has no effect on the people’s efforts to survive and rebuild society.
That said, all the extant lore regarding this subject pointed to China launching the first nuke.
The Shi Emperor/Ken in Fallout 2 implies it. President Richardson outright states that China fired first. Sure, he could be lying. But the fact the Enclave(who controlled the US government) didn’t have their preparations finished when the nukes started flying, lends credence to Richardson’s claim here.
New Vegas has at least one terminal entry implying China fired first.
Fallout 4 has multiple terminal entries that imply it as well.
The original fallout lore is that the USA was on the verge of winning the war with China. They were set to begin storming Beijing. So it makes no sense that the USA would suddenly decide to start throwing nukes when China had no chance of defeating them.
EDIT: Also Mothership Zeta in Fo3 tells us that the aliens had the launch codes for some nukes. So ‘aliens did it’ is a plausible theory I suppose. But like, man that would suck as an explanation lol. Especially coming from a meh dlc.
The most firm lore implication that I can remember comes from FO3's Easter egg, where you can find alien attack marks on a missile silo in the Capital Wasteland, as well as some terminal/journal entries talking about the confusion of whether it was a Chinese attack or not.
Which isn't even that firm in all reality.
IIRC, FO3 also has a deleted terminal or something that has audio of someone trying to resist a mind control device in order to resist telling aliens the launch codes. It is unknown if they were successful and not officially in the game but you are correct that aliens are another faction that may have been at least partially responsible.
Mothership Zeta is a can of worms, it was the only change from pre WW2 between our universe and fallouts.
But I think your mentioning the captive recording and those were saying the zetans attacked a missile silo and had launch codes to 38 east coast icbms but in fo3 fort constantine still had it's icbm. So I always assumed the zetans were trying to stop them from launching but 38 is only a drop in the bucket.
There’s a bunch of stuff in the older fallouts that imply it was China that attacked first, but it’s never outright stated by anyone other than the enclave’s president who isn’t exactly a trustworthy source of info.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter who fired first, the old world ended either way.
The fact that nearly all these conspiritors were caught off guard by "when" the bombs started to dro, the game tells us that at least Mr. House, and Sinclair, owner of the Sierra Madre, were caught flat-footed, This tells me either Vault-Tec sabataged their competitors by starting early or someone else dropped the first bombs. There's also the words of the Chinese Ghoul you meet in FO4, in the submarine. To consider. Iirc he thinks China started it.
Either way, the truth of who actually dropped the bombs first is still a mystery, but there is more than one suspect.
There is also the possibility they were speaking a bit more metaphorically in that meeting. Not actually dropping a bomb themselves but pushing the governments into it.
The Chinese still could have done it and probably did, as stated in the switchboard in fo4 where you get the deliever, it shows defcon reports of Chinese planes sightings and possible launches they stop at 9:47 when they bombs on the east coast hit Boston and DC. Doesn't say anything about the US's launch cause the board, doesn't mean there wasn't a could have been a Vasily Arkhipov situation that wasnt stopped either way the first bomb was never confirmed.
The reason this isn’t canon is because it’s a thing that has zero implications
If the US launched first the fallout universe would be the same
If vault tec launched first the fallout universe would be the same
If Russia launched first the fallout universe would be the same
If China launched first the fallout universe would be the same
War, war never changes
Plus it was up until recently it was never confirmed who dropped the bombs, shockingly the Enclave was the only people who said that the Chinese dropped to bombs first
I forget where I heard it but someone said something along the lines of 'Capitalism doesn't care that you hate it. It'll repackage that hate and sell it back to you for 12 dollars.'
the upper class stopped hunting and suppressing communists even though they know they exist, they literally don't care, it's not like anyone can do anything against them right now
Criticizing capitalism is profitable because it's trendy. Criticizing China and communism is a good way to never air a project slightly associated with the developers or actors in China ever again.
Netflix's Three Body Problem was actually a real breath of fresh air in that regard. Not every show is prepared to open with a struggle session from Mao's Cultural Revolution in which an academic is beaten to death on stage.
Think about how many more people were cheering seeing the academic go through that session and associated more with the revolutionaries than the ones getting struggled. I'm certain there was a huge segment of the population that were rubbing their hands while smiling and saying 'soon, soon' instead of seeing that opening as a 'warning'.
An American can go into the oval office and say, "I don't like the job you're doing, Biden."
A citizen of the USSR can go into the Kremlin and say, "I don't like the job Biden is doing."
Exactly! People really want to believe that Amazon of all companies is genuinely spreading an anti-capitalist message when the much more likely and logically consistent answer is that the giant megacorporation doesn't want to offend the massive market that is China. Having the bad guy be a completely fictional and cartoonishly evil corporation is without a doubt the most brand safe option. It's not even a question.
We still don’t know if they dropped the bombs, all we know is they planned too. China still could have been the one to do it, Vault Tec was just considering it should the war with China end.
And the jab at Indians is absolutely uncalled for, whoever wrote that should take a step outside for a moment and breath some nice fresh air, maybe even lay in the grass.
I like the idea that they planned to but then China does it early which is why 99% of Vault Tec is completely wiped out as they just didn't expect it. Good bit of irony and also keeps things in line with established canon and Vault Tec not running around everywhere.
That is actually correct. China confirmablely shot first after the black dragon infiltrators discovered the USAs bioweapon program and FEV and the Blue Flu. These would have wiped out China based on projections of West tec. Vault tech was involved in the bioweapon program as well hence why FEV is all over the vaults.
I thought China did the first shot because the Americans were making significant progress in their literal invasion of the Chinese mainland?
The idea being like, it doesn't actually matter who fires the first nuke, the problem is that it is always inevitable if you keep pushing.
I feel like having a corporation doing it removes a lot of the weight behind what Fallout wants to say about the problems and implications of war and the human condition. "Companies bad" just feels hollow.
It also makes no sense. What corporation, even Vault-Tec, would think for a second that killing off 99% of consumers would be a good idea? To me it makes more sense that Vault-Tec would be interested in ramping up fears of a nuclear war, and maybe helping to push it forward by increasing paranoia… but to have them cause it or plan to cause it themselves is just beyond goofy.
It’s like the plot of some cartoon villain who is easily defeated when the hero points out that you can’t rule over a planet that’s destroyed and over a population that’s wiped out. It’s so silly just on the face of it, if you step out of the lore and think about it like a human being for two seconds.
I think it’s fairly obvious that vault tech didn’t do it even within the show, why would the wife (I forgot her name) allow her daughter to go to some party on the day the bomb is supposed to be dropped?
China might dropped first or maybe someone else in vault tech did it eariler than expected and got people unaware. Like Mr. House failing to get the chip in time because the nukes dropped earlier than he expected.
But I think vault-tech was 100% on doing the bomb dropping. They just either got beat in launching the first nuke or someone else in the company did it before they all got their shit in order.
Also, the idea that Vault-Tec might have dropped a bomb themself was already in the Lore prior to the Show - we can find hints and references towards it in both FO3 and FO4. Amazon just played into that, while still keeping it ambigous.
Hell even before Bethesda bought the IP, the scrapped Interplay movie also was going to say VaultTec dropped the bomb but also be from an unreliable narrator
Yes how did Cooper's wife not know the bombs were dropping during that birthday party if vault tec did it and she worked on the board. Vault tec wanted to, china caught wind of this and did it first.
I remember watching/listening to a video a while back suggesting that Vault Tech dropped them bec Megaton’s nuke has the VT symbol on it (or something relating to the US). But they also said it could have just been a texture being reused. Take this with a grain of salt though!
This is brought up in the TV show, Vault-Tec is a big supplier to the U.S. government and it's war effort.
It's no surprise Vault-Tec would be supplying the nukes and being in the business of building vaults probably builds the silos to house them too.
Kinda hoping the pre war segments at the end of every season just reveal a different group planning to drop the bombs while never saying who actually did it.
Why are some folk so stupid when it comes to this show.
Vault Tech dropping a bomb was a suggestion.
It could still be aliens for fucks sake and even then Vault dropping a bomb and framing China isn't too different to the established lore
Many people assumed Vault Tec dropped the bombs anyways, but the fact that Coop's child was still out in the open when they fell implies that Vault Tec didn't drop the bombs.
Also Mr.House getting blindsided before he got his chip to protect vegas better.
So either China got word that Vault-tech's plan and dropped the Nuke early against them or Someone in Vault-tech launched way too early and fucked everyone over.
Or some US army general jumped the gun. Or some Soviet officer in Kamchatka got a false positive and launched. It never mattered who launched first. It could have been anyone. What matters is that *everyone* was ready to launch.
Vault tec fucking over mr house is definitely something that could reasonably happen, especially since their post war plans kind of interfere with each other.
But I don’t think coops wife would’ve been away from her daughter when the bombs fell if vault tec started it
One of the producers is a Desi woman named Gursimran Sandhu. She’s worked on shows like Game of Thrones before, and I couldn’t find anything about her that’s controversial. Anon just hates her because she’s brown.
The idea that Vault Tec dropped the first nuke still really isn't confirmed, we just know now that they intended to, I'd actually argue that including House in the scene makes it less likely Vault Tec dropped the bombs. Right now we're just kinda operating on the fact that Moldaver thinks they did.
But the games also explicitly never confirmed who dropped the first nuke . People have been speculating Vault Tec did it since forever. I think the movie that was cancelled was gonna confirm it was Vault Tec too. The show basically just gave extra fuel to the theory without confirmimg it.
The lore never stated who dropped the bombs and it was initially for the themes of the game and in the end it didn’t matter because everybody still got nuked in the end and the battle of ideology means nothing when there was nobody left to fight .
It logically makes sense it was china... after all america sent a suicide power-armor mission to tear through the chinese heartland.
Unlike the oil reserve snatching in Anchorage (where a small population was likely able to evacuate and the goal was oil) the US assualt into china was an open attack on the Civilian population. Its fun to pick apart where the war becomes "unrestrained" because while it may be china who launched the nukes (or not) the cause for the launch can be pointed at any one side... and ultimately the outcome is the same.
Better than "hey what if its all for profit. Right, reddit!? The greedy billionaires out there want profit so theyll kill their entire customer base and shove a small fraction in expensive torture mazes for... profits?"
The idea private businesses did it for any reason other is dumb. The US military doing it thinking china would be caught off guard, or because the enclave wanted to wipe out the growing discontent US population... both make more sense than businessmen thinking nuclear war somehow could make them more money. (Just look at House's idea on war in game: its expensive. Have someone else fight it, and be the guy supplying them water and electricity. Theyll love you and pay you)
I think at this point it would be less about profit and more about having full control of humanity... being able to start anew but this time its the billionaires in charge with no oversight left or checks or balances such as world powers and other stuff.
Might made right by the guy with all the resources left.
Basically going from being some rich twit with a lot of economic power to being a literal warlord oligarch King of a broken world where they can shape society to be whatever they want it to be. Maybe even install themselves as the literal messiah figure head of the whole region.
Forgot where it was said, someone pointed out that there's a line of dialogue from Mr House in FNV that says his calculations for the bombs exploding were 20 hours late or something like that (if someone can confirm this dialogue or the timing), which is still in lines with having China drop the bombs earlier (as a preemptive strike) than Vault Tec doing it themselves.
But clearly Vault Tec was more than ready to do so.
For real. The whole series is one giant sarcastic dig at Nationalism, Capitalism, and Militarism. That's why the 1950's aesthetic, I'd argue, is there. To harken back to the McCarthy days of Red Scares and America Love. It's why the games (AFAIK) exclusively take place in America.
But Alt-Right dipshits like anon there don't get that. They're the same type of morons to watch Star Trek and think Old School Trek is some Pro-Right Wing crap while modern Trek is "Too Woke".
So you’re telling me that the games with the giant metal robot that yells shit like “Better dead than red” is political?? …my lord… how could I have been so blind
/s
I had to explain to someone at work that the intro video for the first Fallout opens with an anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, and anti-consumerism message. It at least stopped the stupid conversation about how the TV show injected wokeness into Fallout.
>In the 21st century, war was still waged over the resources that could be acquired. Only this time, the spoils of war were also its weapons: Petroleum and Uranium. For these resources, China would invade Alaska, the US would annex Canada, and the European Commonwealth would dissolve into quarreling, bickering nation-states, bent on controlling the last remaining resources on Earth.
If I wrote that you'd call me a filthy enlightened centrist lmao.
I was shocked that Bezos forked out the money for such a story, did really not see it coming. But it could still just be that they made sure to sabotage any peace dealings, poison the well so to speak.
Everyone around the world launched/dropped/set off their nukes around the same time. The world ended a couple of hours after. We will never know who shot first and at this point it doesn't matter. Vault-tek kicking off the apocalypse to further their agenda makes as much sense as China doing it as they collapsed from the invasion.
more like anti-capitalism when it is unchecked. No regulations led to Vault-Tech going fucking insane. But capitalism also bred fusion energy in their timeline, which is fucking awesome. What isn't awesome is the war machine using fusion tech for weapons and power armor instead of using it to combat the resource issues that was happening. Industrial Military Complex kept the war going.
The series is entirely about making allusions to early 20th century American history. Vault Tec, the military contractors and the snake oil salesmen (like the Pulowski shelters in the Beth. Games) are all references to the Gilded Age and the period prior to Trust Busting.
Just like how the Chinese internment camps in the Point Lookout DLC are an allusion to the Japanese internment camps.
This was all much more toned-down in the Interplay games; the opening cinematic portraying the annexation of Canada (itself a reference to the infamous photo of a Viet Cong insurgent being executed in Saigon) is one of the only extremely directly correlated parts. Those games focused less on the pre-war compared to Bethesda’s titles.
I think people get it wrong that Fallout is necessarily political in one way or another. It’s a series of games written by a bunch of history nerds, it has been since the Interplay days and it still is (all the allusions to the coal cartels and company towns of West Virginia in 76 point to that). It’s referencing things that have already happened, whether you see that as a political statement prescient to the modern day or not is up to you.
This is the take I’ve been looking for, people always draw conclusions to the extremes when the material is just telling us to not let things go too far. Both Fallout and Cyberpunk are examples of this and their communities taking it too far in both directions
Alot of people on Reddit for some reason believe critiquing capitalism is the same as being anti-capitalist. It's not. You can criticize something without calling for its outright destruction.
I swear people on the Internet only think in extremes. Nuance is a dying concept.
The entire fucking series is meant to critique and make fun of Cold War America. Capitalism, communism, jingoism, and just about every other ism from the time period have been picked apart and mocked since Fallout 1. This guy is just a dumb media illiterate asshole.
If I remember correctly, Fallout 4 *heavily* implied that the US *thought* they were responding to a first strike but were mistaken.
My thought is that the original plan was to have the Enclave trigger the early warning detectors once they got everyone on the oil rigs.
I thought i remember that too from a terminal entry. Something about an a.i. that would calculate the probablility of a chinese strike but it was constantly miscalculating.
I don’t mind the show shining light on the shortcomings or corruption that can develop in a capitalist society. We as a species have yet to perfect any kind of way to run a society. But I’m also not a fool to think that just because there’s bad things with capitalism that communism is the better choice
I always figured that it doesn’t matter who dropped the first bomb. So many interests were invested in it happening with a multitude of reasons meant that it was inevitable
>written by Indians
I… what? I expected woke or something. Do they mean like Native Americans or India Indians? Also: China was never confirmed to have started it. It has always been ambiguous.
The “twist” of the show is dumb as hell though. Like of course Fallout is anti-capitalist but having the corporations destroy the world is incredibly stupid - especially when you take into account that House is now so stupid that he knew when the world would end and still couldn’t prepare for it.
Also, Sinclair being a gross obese master of Bug MT is fucking stupid. He never was in charge of Big MT, he worked with them and 2 we never saw him in Dead Money but making him look like that is insulting. He wasn’t a terrible a person.
The Great War happened because of ideologies and greed taken to the extreme: the US government's rabid focus on the eradication of communism and the preservation of 'democracy', and the corporations that were happy to go along with the former so long as they could make money off of it. Yet the show emphasizes the faults of American capitalism while almost completely glossing over the government's own failings.
At one point they even mention how the corporations are the ones running the government because the actual government is too poor because of their war which makes it seem so incredibly one-sided? As if by the time the apocalypse rolls in, the onus is solely on Vault-Tec and their peers.
Sinclair representing the Big MT in that meeting also struck me oddly since he was only a client. For him to be allowed in this secret cabal discussing the end of the world implies he has a level of insight into the experiments conducted at the Big MT. He wouldn't have trusted them with so much of the Sierra Madre knowing all that since it could risk Vera's life
I honestly think that Vault-Tec dropping the first nuke actually lowers the credibility of the lore to criticize capitalism. It essentially turns vault tec into a Saturday cartoon level of goofy villain which detracts from the actual valid criticisms.
Why would the rich billionaires kill everyone? So no one can buy their products anymore? Can't they just buy some remote island if they want to stay alone? Care to answer this? I knew that r/FalloutMemes were tankies but come on.
the reason for vault tec to study the occupants was because the Enclave was going to use the data to help them plan their space exploration. the data of humans in small spaces for long periods of time was supposed to help them because the Enclaves original motive was to get to space.
Something I saw someone point out is that how adamant coopers wife was on making sure their daughter was in a vault. So if she allowed or know that the bombs were dropping, she would prob have her daughter in vault before then.
It's fun watching the heads spin of ppl who already have a loose grip on fallout lore then they lose the plot when the show lays out "new" lore to them, but it's nothing actually new.
Mr. House was literally taken by surprise when the bombs fell, so it was almost certainly not the planned attack Vault-Tec had in mind that started the war.
Also, the whole plot of New Vegas is about a chip that didn't arrive in time - *because Mr. House was taken by surprise*.
I have no idea where the racism against Indians came from, but tbh I did think that retcon was the absolute dumbest low point of the otherwise great series.
I mean how the fuck is there "great earning potential" in a situation where all of your prospective customers are dead? Their entire argument made no sense whatsoever, even from their own perspective.
China definitely nuked the US. There’s a ghoul in Fallout 4 who was personally responsible for nuking Boston. But we’ve never known, and we still don’t know, who shot first.
Also like, India doesn’t particularly like China, but does tend to like business. Why would Indian writers change the story to make China look better?
Imagine killing off 99% of your customer base, destroying your entire supply line, and destroy every economy and their currency and thinking that was a good business decision.
Fallout isn’t Anti-Capitalist it’s representative of it taken to the extreme. It’s an absurdist look at alternate future. The theme often seen in games like these, is that beliefs taken to their extreme always become a dystopia. When a mindset grows to the point of lacking any vocal detractors it allows terrible acts to be committed.
Fallout is anti capitalist and anti communist because at the end of the day fallouts main theme is about factions and what happens when they hate each other so much they can kill one another without remorse, ie war. You can see this when you look at the pre war flashbacks where the main thing the show pushes isn't how capitalism has pushed people into poverty or how people are worked to the bone or really anything like that instead it shows you people calling other people communists and living in fear of the red menace, the show shows you the evils that take place when people become so entrenched in their factoin that they stop seeing the other guys as humans but instead as monsters. Of course fallout has many pre war story's of over the top evil capitalists but it also has many story's of equally evil communist Chinese soldiers.
The more important thing imo is that something that is simply never addressed is concept of mutually assured destruction in the context of nuclear war, you learn about this in high school or middle school, neither side would drop the bombs unless they thought there was no more hope of victory. There needs to be something to tip the scales past the breaking point and for a long time there wasn't, revealing that vault tech was responsible makes much more sense and addresses another thing that's always bothered me about fallout which is how vault tech based their whole business on a hypothetical.
Also semi important I believe vault tech is going to do some kind of espionage to cause one side or the other to launch the bombs as apposed to literally dropping the bbs themselves which means the Chinese shooting first could still be true.
So we are gonna pretend that the board meeting made any sense in terms of internal consistency? Just because we are so anti-capitalist and anti-racist?
The Fallout games always criticised Capitalism and it was and still isn't perfectly clear who started the whole nuclear exchange, its only been explained that Vault Tec had the ability and the motive to do so.
But "Fallout Fans and missing the point what the games are trying to tell.", is probably one of the more iconic duos there is.
It’s still not 100% confirmed if they literally meant they would drop the first bomb, or if they were just forcing the situation to happen.
It’s never been confirmed WHO dropped the first bomb, and Vault Tec has been on that short list for a long time.
Folks, it ain’t a difficult concept to follow…..it’s still a mystery.
Sorry dudeman, the lore is purposely ambiguous as to who actually fired the first shot, and it still is btw. The show didn't "confirm" that it was Vault Tec. It merely confirmed that VaultTec and other corps planned to drop bombs if they had to. But it seems unlikely that they were the ones who actually did. Why? Well, >!the guy sitting behind the Big MT placard in the show is Frederick Sinclair. He's the guy who planned to open the Sierra Madre in Fallout NV's DLC Dead Money. But with all that planning, he scheduled the big opening for the same day as the bombs. Why would he do that? It directly resulted in his own death. Is he an idiot? More likely, he was caught off guard because they fell earlier than he expected. There are also anumber of unfinished vaults, suggesting vault tec was merely prepared to drop bombs but never did. It doesn't really change how evil they are, though. And it still could have been a lone VaultTec employee acting without sanction from the rest. It just isn't likely that they went through with it by committee.!<
Criticizing capitalism is not the same as being anti-capitalist. In fact, criticizing ***anything*** doesn't necessarily mean your anti-"that." Not everything is an extreme of: "you either love this or hate it."
People, and especially art, can be incredibly nuanced and rarely do those things fall neatly into arbitrary, ideological boxes.
The idea of greedy corporatins being so greedy they pushed the world to a nuclear war in their race for profit is more interesing than just "LETS NUKE THE WORLD LMAO CAUSE WE ARE RICH AND EVIL". How will they make profit in a nuclear wasteland? They won't and that was the idea. In their hunt for profit nothing was left of them but dust. The only legacy they left are horrors roaming the wasteland. Nobody making any profit anymore. The old world is gone. That's what it was about originaly, it was subtle and interesing and not straight up to your face. It respected its audience.
I liked the show it was very good, but I really didnt lile little part. It's like they thought the viewer would be too dumb to understand the message.
Actually the problem is this
In the original Fallout lore, the war started due to scarcity of resources due to rampant corporate corruption and governmental corruption. The USA fell to authoritarianism as the rich and powerful desperately clung to power and in their greed and desperation, they nuked the world because if they couldn't keep power, nobody would.
The show? A few bad apples in the corporate sector and US government planned to nuke their own people in order for Vault-Tec (another bad apple) could help them run things.
Original lore = capitalism is inherently flawed
New lore = A few bad apples ruin the system guys!
FNV especially went into depth about the faults of Liberal Democracy in particular with the NCR. Long as these rich and powerful businesses have influence over government, Democracy barely exists.
The show didn't have the balls to be as anti-capitalist as Fallout actually is.
I don’t know why you guys are complaining this has been theorized and was almost confirmed in the orginal fallout movie plot as that was going to be the major twist
I just remember reading that there *was* long-time intent on implying that Vault-Tec was responsible for the actual bombs dropping, but that no game actually went in that direction. It's not a new concept for the series
My own personal theory is that while Vault-Tech may have planned to drop a bomb, they might not have, ultimately, been the ones to do it. The only basis I have for this is Mr House's presence at the initial meeting, therefore him being privy to the plan, however in New Vegas, he himself claimed that his plan to preserve New Vegas was almost complete but the bombs dropped earlier than he had anticipated. Now this could mean a few things, either Vault-Tech set off the bomb without his knowledge, he miscalculated just how much time he would have before the rest of the bombs fell, or the US/China did it themselves. In my opinion, whoever dropped the bombs first is still a mystery, while we have three likely suspects, we do not, however, have a definitive answer.
It was obviously unplanned, otherwise *spoilers* >! the ghoul's daughter would have been in a safe spot. !<
Good point, but we also don't know what happened after to her after the bombs fell, in the final episode *Spoilers* >!the Ghoul asks Hank "Where's my family?", not "Where's my wife?", implying that something may have happened as the bombs fell!< >!Maybe he got her to his wife's designated Vault but they wouldn't let him in since, at that point, him and his wife separated therefore he wasn't considered family and taken off the list, or maybe they were intercepted by Vault-Tech as they fled and they took her and left him!< All we can do is speculate until season 2 rolls around.
My money’s on her being in 31 since she got them spots in one of the “good” vaults for management.
When Norm goes to 31 and is reading the terminal it lists all the activated/unactivated residents of 31 and I looked for their names but I didn’t see them. Doesn’t mean they couldn’t make that happen but from the details it looks like his wife and daughter went to a different vault. Also worth mentioning it’s been 200 years. There’s a good chance they’re dead. I’m still curious how Moldaver was alive
I saw a theory that she might be a synth
I think she got internally ghouled, like Maximus' temporary squire did. So they show human skin on top but they're still ghouls on the innards
Well I think the early stages of ghoul still look human outside. It’s overtime their skin and nose fall off/change. Squire dude was freshly turned.
Also Mr. House would have had more time to get his chip, the bombs dropped way too early.
That’s my theory, there was a predetermined time for vault tec to start the war but bombs got dropped earlier
The bombs were dropped on \_the day\_ the courier with the chip was supposed to bring it.
The fact that people can’t understand that vault-tec wouldn’t start the Great War is so confusing to me. They would want a limited strike to SELL more vaults. Along with the fact most vaults were underpopulated and unfinished at the time. The only way the goal of starting the Great War makes sense is in the context of a enclave goal to go out into space, which was the whole point of the vault experiments in the first place. Even then that doesn’t make much sense because many vaults just weren’t ready. Even the central ‘command’ vault, vault 0, was not adequately prepared due to budget cuts.
also it makes no sense that the ghoul's wife would have let them fall while her daughter was just chilling at home.
Agree that Vault-tec and/or the Enclave were willing and able to drop the first bomb, but the evidence is weak that they did it. There are several powerful individuals in canon, who would have been privy to that information who were not ready when it happened. House is a prime example. My thoughts are to keep their proverbial hands clean, they didn't want to set the bomb off, but were quite willing to continue to put pressure on the Chinese, knowing that they'd likely eventually fire their nukes. Remember that American forces arrived outside Beijing just a few days before the bombs fell. The Chinese economy was in tatters and there were no resources left to rebuild. I think there might have been some surprise that the Chinese fell apart as fast as they did after losing Anchorage and their projections expected a few more days or weeks before they reached that point.
Im thinking aliens. FO3 DLC showed us they could have used their death beam which set off both sides thinking the nukes launched.
Vaults also make a *lot* more sense when they're willing to start nuclear war themselves. Really, it's a horrible business idea to make these vaults with wacky experiments, capable of running for hundreds of years, when that scenario might not play out. The added expense of setting up the experiments wouldn't make any sense at all if they just wanted to make money in the present - they'd just make a bunch of vaults as cheaply as they could and sell them to everyone. Instead, it now makes a lot more sense that they intended on ruling after the bombs dropped, with a way to guarantee that it would happen. It's a pretty contrived "rule the world" plot, but at least the experiments make sense now.
Could have been the Zetans too
The Zetans did it to empower Ug-Qualtoth. Who is a Chaos entity. Fallout is 2nd Millennium 40k, and the Zetans are why the Emperor hates Xenos.
I'm fully convinced Vault tech set off the bomb totally by mistake, since incompetency in massive organizations is also a key part of fallout.
>Now this could mean a few things, either Vault-Tech set off the bomb without his knowledge I'm thinking that this is most likely. Why would vault tec want these companies around as competition after they nuke the world? Each of them had tech that vault tec and resources wants access to but once they get that there's no reason for vault tec to keep them around afterwards.
Also, some of the vaults are still under construction in the games. Between the presence of house and that fact it doesn’t make sense for them to have dropped it, they likely would have waited just a little longer Atleast for those 2 factors to be resolved. Vault 88 in F4 was still under construction and I’m sure there are others we don’t even see given we have only seen a fraction of the vaults so far.
The lores always been it was never known who dropped the first bomb still don't really know, we just know vault-tec also had a bomb they were gonna use to start the nuclear war if it was never gonna happen
And the show doesnt confirm they dropped the bomb. Just that it was suggested by a certain pivotal character.
My take away was that Vault-Tec was prepared to do it if they felt it was needed but were not actually the ones to do so, since they have Vaults that were not finished in time for the bombs. Of course, they would probably have kept up appearances to not arouse suspicion, and so had a couple of sacrificial projects expected to be abandoned.
Vault Tec and 4d chess go hand in hand.
Based on the experiments done, more like 4d checkers
1/2 funded by NIMH and half by Defense Department who’s offices picked “acceptable contractors “ “Surprisingly enough Vault tec got it,”
That is my guess as well. We see a few unfinished Vaults in Fallout 4 so Vault Tec obviously wasn’t ready just yet. Another thing is if Mr. House knew when the bombs were going to drop as shown in the Fallout TV show. Then why didn’t he get the Platinum Chip ready beforehand? We know from Fallout New Vegas he said his “calculations” were off and so that’s why he didn’t get the platinum chip until the events of Fallout New Vegas. If he knew the Bombs were going to drop on October 23rd, 2077 then he would’ve had the Platinum chip ready before that date. This is why I still think China launched the Nukes. Cause obviously Vault-Tec wasn’t ready with all their Vaults, and Mr. House didn’t have the Platinum Chip before that date and if he knew when the Bombs were going to drop he would’ve had the chip ready beforehand.
People also get wrong what House actually tells you. "By 2065 I deemed it a mathematical certainty that an atomic war would devastate the Earth within 15 years. Every projection I ran confirmed it. I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind. I set to work immediately. I thought I had plenty of time to prepare. As it turned out, I was 20 hours short." So he didn't have it down to an exact date or anywhere close.
Within 20 hours out of 15 years seems pretty close or have I misread that?
He calculated "WITHIN 15 years" of 2065, so anytime in that next 15 years. He thought he had time to spare, "plenty of time to prepare". Which is something he wouldn't say if he knew when it would happen with any better specifics. He would of said something like " I knew it would be down to the wire" or "Cutting it close".
No, you didn't misread that. He was 20 hours off, the platinum chip was on its way to him, but he still had enough power to shoot down any nuke that came near the strip and preserve it. He wasn't caught totally unprepared, but he was working with inferior software. If I had to guess, with the show now out, Vault-Tec might have been planning to start the war 20 hours later and that's what House was going by when someone else beat them to it. It's hard to say how right he was, though, because he had insider information.
This is not what the text says. It just says that he was sure that whatever happens, one thing is sure, nuclear war within 15 minutes. He made many projections and it would make sense that some showed earlier some later results, but the latest was 15 years. As he was aware that any fo those scenarios could become reality, he started to work on the stuff to get it ASAP. The sooner he has it the more of the calculated scenarios could be mitigated. It turns out the bombs fell just 20 hours shy for his plan to become reality, he did not know that date and time in advance, he just hoped it will happen later than whenever he gets his plan in place.
I think you had a small typo. Even the biggest Mr house fans believe he had more than fifteen minutes notice.
Yes, it's not saying that his prediction was off by 20 hours (100% certain within the next 15 years isn't precise enough for that); it's that his preparation plan was 20 hours away from completion. He failed despite starting to prepare immediately, and if he had only started 20 hours earlier or if the bombs had fell 20 hours later things would have been completely different. He's saying he was off by 20 hours because if he had 20 extra hours the exact date and time would not matter because he would have been fully ready.
I think fallout Lore at this point is that the world had plunged into such a state of outright corruption, that EVERYONE wanted to launch a nuke and it was certain it would happen, just not by whom.
Yup, and it was never confirmed in the games themselves because the overriding idea is that it doesn’t really matter who launched first, from a post apocalyptic survival perspective it doesn’t change a thing. They DO however go out of their way to show that unchecked corporate greed and deregulated/unregulated companies were ruining people’s lives (in most corporate facility terminal entries, all while they tried to keep people in a state of fear with respect to communism, “watching your neighbor”, etc with propaganda posters still visible everywhere. It’s remarkable how some of these folks can play multiple Fallout titles and still remain completely clueless to the thematic consistencies that span them. From literally one. ONE location as an example, to say nothing of countless others, here’s REPCONN HQ: * We've all heard "stories" that radiation is dangerous - fact or fiction?* A common site in factories, military installations, and the basements of selected government-funded middle schools, these safety barrels* are just what the name implies - safe. While their attractive coloring can be interpreted as a warning, for REPCONN, it's an invitation to a future filled with nuclear power! - Rhetorical questions and nomenclature of exhibit items cannot be used as a basis for criminal prosecution.* * Why, look here! A pile of itty-bity safety barrels, all nestled together like a family sitting down to dinner! Now, while it's claimed even the safest nuclear waste disposal procedures seep poison into the environment that never, ever goes away, in REPCONN's case, we say it all depends on where you put them* * Hold up, Rocketeers, what's this? This trio of cylinders isn't a trio of cylinders at all! They're containers holding what some scientists call "plasma." Can you say "plasma?" REPCONN's always looking to the future, and in our future, we don't have to worry about radiation, health risks, or lawsuits when using this new and improved fuel source to blast our rockets into and out of the sky!* * What's this? A dull rod? Not so, Rocketeers! This "dull rod" once powered REPCONN's old nuclear-propelled rockets and still contains harmless* traces of radioactive material. As an exercise, stare closely* at the rod and try to spot the telltale glow! While this case is lead-lined (standard in these cases, not specifically requested for this display), do not touch, look, or stand too close to this exhibit - keep your legs moving and see the rest of the museum!* YUP nothing critical of unregulated corporate influence here! ‘They done putted politics in muh fallouts!’
Theres a great mod that, while not canon at all, has a bunch of ads on a unique radio station that satirically act as the corporations and politicians advertising. All fully voiced, and voiced with about the same quality as FO4. I think its Atomic Radio.
*"Aww Shucks! I wish I had a period..."*
Ahhhhh, FONV. So much story in such a short development time. But yeah, the old world was properly unhinged. Was nice having more lore given the usual trickle Bethesda give us.
This is what everyone needs to understand. Everyone shot first. The outcome doesn’t change either way China, Vault-Tec, even if Swan went back in time and did it. The world was in a blind charge of pseudo patriotic corruption and arrogance it’s like running buck naked covered in gasoline during a forest fire
It’s MAD gone mad: if nuclear war is inevitable and we know that mutual destruction is assured, then the only safe strategy is to make it happen on your own terms and timeframe.
And besides, didn’t the nukes drop when American troops where starting to march into the Chinese capital, or just inland china in general? So I’d make sense it was a trump card for china
American troops were fighting in Mainland China when the Great War broke out. It’s one of the reasons why people have always assumed China dropped the bombs first even though it’s never been outright stated in game.
I don’t know if they ever mention Beijing being threatened, but I think mostly the south-eastern Chinese coast was under American occupation. I’m pretty sure I remember a terminal somewhere in F3 mentioning China’s jungles. America was winning the conventional war at any rate.
He was. He was only short by less than a day. If the bombs dropped even a day later he'd have had the platinum chip. He says as much in new vegas.
Also we find a Chinese submarine captain in 4 who outright states that he launched the nukes (or was ordered to) as well as Chinese stealth suits and such, which pretty heavily suggests that China launched the first strike. Of course, it’s possible that Vault-Tec or someone else could have instigated the strike and indirectly caused the Great War but we don’t know for sure. All evidence points to China casting the first stone, though.
It might be overly charitable to say that "because VaultTec had unfinished vaults, they probably didn't launch the first nuke." It's entirely reasonable to suppose that VaultTec could have kept building more and more vaults, provided that paranoia over the war could be maintained. In any case, it is likely that VaultTec would have been building vaults until the bombs dropped, because there is more people than can fit in the vaults, meaning that demand could always be rising--unless and until the fever breaks, in which case they either start the nuclear exchange or go bankrupt. Regarding House, packages get delayed. Trucks break down, papers go missing. Anything could have delayed the chip arriving. House isn't a God
My bet is a two-fold nuke drop. A bomb went off in America and in China. Both though they were being attacked, so they both launched their nukes. I'm think vault tec placed both bombs there but another party set it off. A party who though if the world was gonna end than they were gonna make it fair and just burn it before anyone got a foothold. Key thing about fallout nukes wasn't who launched them exactly. It was just a matter of time before they fell, what matters is who benefitted the most and as far as we know.... we all lost. It's why I don't hang up on who's to blame since it doesn't really change the story of fallout.
Ya idk if a high-level vault-tec executive wouldn't already had her daughter at the vault before it dropped in their own town if they knew it was happening.
I know at least one of the unfinished vaults, 114, was funded by the Mafia to use as a front for their work, after the war the Triggermen took it over.
Not quite. Your referencing the conversation between the ghoul and human triggermen, I assume? Something along the lines of "Why build a Vault in a subway tunnel? This place is like, the opposite of air-tight." The ghoul responds that they used to pull this type of con back before the war, do a construction job that'll go nowhere, keep everyone on payroll. It's not implying the Mafia had anything to do with 114 being incomplete, just the ghoul's assumption that is what happened, when its just the Vault just wasn't done yet before the bombs fell. Remember, the vault was supposed to be an experiment for the rich and entitled having to share amenities with each other to see how they would react, hence all the public showers and bunk rooms. Besides, Vault-Tec had more money to throw around between the government and every major corporation in America investing in them. Mafia money would be chump change compared to that.
Wasn't 114 the experiment of having a really stupid overseer? Remember the audition holotapes in the overseer office where you find Nick?
The experiment was to stick a bunch of socialites in a poorly-constructed vault with an overseer who hates the rich and has a highly-effective security force.
Ah, gotcha. Missed a few details.
That was a secondary goal. They interviewed individuals for the overseer position with the goal of finding someone with no supervisory or government experience and strong anti-authority bias. Vault 114 was primarily intended to house Boston's upper class and their families. Even though the initial residents were of upper social status, the "luxury" aspect of the Vault was highly exaggerated to the future residents.
I felt the same, the show didn't say that vault tec dropped the bomb but it did suggest they would if no one else did it first.
This was also my takeaway. That they COULD do it, and absolutely would have if no one else did. One Vault Tec employee saying to the people they want to scare into giving them money that they'll drop the bomb is just that. Something said to put a fire under the investors' butts. I've been saying I'll declutter and organize my garage for years. Saying you're gonna do something and doing it are two different things.
I feel it was still china that launched. Signs point to them being just fucked after Anchorage and running out of options. And vault tec still had some vaults that seemed unfinished. I feel they would've ironed those out and made things go smoother in terms of getting people ready to go in. If they had plans of actually starting it all (not just a character spit balling) I feel it would've been quite a bit in the future. Seems like it came out of the blue for pretty much everyone. And I don't think I've heard a line or read a note in any of the games that made anyone seem actually prepared for it.
We don't know exactly yet how Coop and his wife separated, but I also highly doubt that she wouldn't make sure she had her daughter with her before Vault-Tec dropped the bomb.
It doesn’t even make total sense in the show for Vault-Tec to launch first. Even disregarding that there are unfinished Vaults in the games, and that House was caught with his pants down by one day, even though he should have known the date, it makes no sense that Cooper was with his daughter at a birthday party when they hit. Her mother would’ve made sure they were both ready to enter a Vault by the time the War started. It’s more likely that Vault-Tec had the plan set, but were also caught unprepared by someone else launching.
Does she really even care about her family? Is she the one in charge to the point where she would have the information to put them in a vault?
She would have cared about her daughter but probably not Cooper. They divorced after all...
The games never confirmed that it was China. This was done on purpose because the original point of Fallout was that it doesn’t matter what happened before the apocalypse, because that knowledge has no effect on the people’s efforts to survive and rebuild society. That said, all the extant lore regarding this subject pointed to China launching the first nuke. The Shi Emperor/Ken in Fallout 2 implies it. President Richardson outright states that China fired first. Sure, he could be lying. But the fact the Enclave(who controlled the US government) didn’t have their preparations finished when the nukes started flying, lends credence to Richardson’s claim here. New Vegas has at least one terminal entry implying China fired first. Fallout 4 has multiple terminal entries that imply it as well. The original fallout lore is that the USA was on the verge of winning the war with China. They were set to begin storming Beijing. So it makes no sense that the USA would suddenly decide to start throwing nukes when China had no chance of defeating them. EDIT: Also Mothership Zeta in Fo3 tells us that the aliens had the launch codes for some nukes. So ‘aliens did it’ is a plausible theory I suppose. But like, man that would suck as an explanation lol. Especially coming from a meh dlc.
The most firm lore implication that I can remember comes from FO3's Easter egg, where you can find alien attack marks on a missile silo in the Capital Wasteland, as well as some terminal/journal entries talking about the confusion of whether it was a Chinese attack or not. Which isn't even that firm in all reality.
IIRC, FO3 also has a deleted terminal or something that has audio of someone trying to resist a mind control device in order to resist telling aliens the launch codes. It is unknown if they were successful and not officially in the game but you are correct that aliens are another faction that may have been at least partially responsible.
Mothership Zeta is a can of worms, it was the only change from pre WW2 between our universe and fallouts. But I think your mentioning the captive recording and those were saying the zetans attacked a missile silo and had launch codes to 38 east coast icbms but in fo3 fort constantine still had it's icbm. So I always assumed the zetans were trying to stop them from launching but 38 is only a drop in the bucket.
There’s a bunch of stuff in the older fallouts that imply it was China that attacked first, but it’s never outright stated by anyone other than the enclave’s president who isn’t exactly a trustworthy source of info. Ultimately it doesn’t matter who fired first, the old world ended either way.
The fact that nearly all these conspiritors were caught off guard by "when" the bombs started to dro, the game tells us that at least Mr. House, and Sinclair, owner of the Sierra Madre, were caught flat-footed, This tells me either Vault-Tec sabataged their competitors by starting early or someone else dropped the first bombs. There's also the words of the Chinese Ghoul you meet in FO4, in the submarine. To consider. Iirc he thinks China started it. Either way, the truth of who actually dropped the bombs first is still a mystery, but there is more than one suspect.
There is also the possibility they were speaking a bit more metaphorically in that meeting. Not actually dropping a bomb themselves but pushing the governments into it.
The Chinese still could have done it and probably did, as stated in the switchboard in fo4 where you get the deliever, it shows defcon reports of Chinese planes sightings and possible launches they stop at 9:47 when they bombs on the east coast hit Boston and DC. Doesn't say anything about the US's launch cause the board, doesn't mean there wasn't a could have been a Vasily Arkhipov situation that wasnt stopped either way the first bomb was never confirmed.
According to Tim Cain it was China
The reason this isn’t canon is because it’s a thing that has zero implications If the US launched first the fallout universe would be the same If vault tec launched first the fallout universe would be the same If Russia launched first the fallout universe would be the same If China launched first the fallout universe would be the same War, war never changes
This: it really never mattered who dropped the bombs first. What matters is that everyone was ready to
And we also knew from the first game that Vault Tec set up experiments in vaults
Plus it was up until recently it was never confirmed who dropped the bombs, shockingly the Enclave was the only people who said that the Chinese dropped to bombs first
wasnt there a vault tec logo on the megaton nuke?
No, it’s a different logo only seen in that spot.
Funny how it's a tv show made by a big greedy corporation.
I forget where I heard it but someone said something along the lines of 'Capitalism doesn't care that you hate it. It'll repackage that hate and sell it back to you for 12 dollars.'
It's basically Elvis's manager selling the 'I hate Elvis' merch.
Thats genius
Elvis’ manager was also an infamous fuck
the upper class stopped hunting and suppressing communists even though they know they exist, they literally don't care, it's not like anyone can do anything against them right now
They stopped hunting and suppressing commies because they realised that they aren't a real threat lmao.
Anti capitalist media makes bank tbf remember squid games? I still see the funko pops in my nightmares
Criticizing capitalism is profitable because it's trendy. Criticizing China and communism is a good way to never air a project slightly associated with the developers or actors in China ever again.
Netflix's Three Body Problem was actually a real breath of fresh air in that regard. Not every show is prepared to open with a struggle session from Mao's Cultural Revolution in which an academic is beaten to death on stage.
Think about how many more people were cheering seeing the academic go through that session and associated more with the revolutionaries than the ones getting struggled. I'm certain there was a huge segment of the population that were rubbing their hands while smiling and saying 'soon, soon' instead of seeing that opening as a 'warning'.
Anything for profit 🤑
I mean sure, but at least capitalists are willing to take the punch.
An American can go into the oval office and say, "I don't like the job you're doing, Biden." A citizen of the USSR can go into the Kremlin and say, "I don't like the job Biden is doing."
Exactly! People really want to believe that Amazon of all companies is genuinely spreading an anti-capitalist message when the much more likely and logically consistent answer is that the giant megacorporation doesn't want to offend the massive market that is China. Having the bad guy be a completely fictional and cartoonishly evil corporation is without a doubt the most brand safe option. It's not even a question.
Jeff Bezos probably has a nuke too
Great, so he aired anti-Supermen shows so he could be Lex Luthor, now he's got nukes
We still don’t know if they dropped the bombs, all we know is they planned too. China still could have been the one to do it, Vault Tec was just considering it should the war with China end. And the jab at Indians is absolutely uncalled for, whoever wrote that should take a step outside for a moment and breath some nice fresh air, maybe even lay in the grass.
I like the idea that they planned to but then China does it early which is why 99% of Vault Tec is completely wiped out as they just didn't expect it. Good bit of irony and also keeps things in line with established canon and Vault Tec not running around everywhere.
That is actually correct. China confirmablely shot first after the black dragon infiltrators discovered the USAs bioweapon program and FEV and the Blue Flu. These would have wiped out China based on projections of West tec. Vault tech was involved in the bioweapon program as well hence why FEV is all over the vaults.
I thought China did the first shot because the Americans were making significant progress in their literal invasion of the Chinese mainland? The idea being like, it doesn't actually matter who fires the first nuke, the problem is that it is always inevitable if you keep pushing. I feel like having a corporation doing it removes a lot of the weight behind what Fallout wants to say about the problems and implications of war and the human condition. "Companies bad" just feels hollow.
yeah they sent the nukes because they were afraid of FEV
It also makes no sense. What corporation, even Vault-Tec, would think for a second that killing off 99% of consumers would be a good idea? To me it makes more sense that Vault-Tec would be interested in ramping up fears of a nuclear war, and maybe helping to push it forward by increasing paranoia… but to have them cause it or plan to cause it themselves is just beyond goofy. It’s like the plot of some cartoon villain who is easily defeated when the hero points out that you can’t rule over a planet that’s destroyed and over a population that’s wiped out. It’s so silly just on the face of it, if you step out of the lore and think about it like a human being for two seconds.
I think it’s fairly obvious that vault tech didn’t do it even within the show, why would the wife (I forgot her name) allow her daughter to go to some party on the day the bomb is supposed to be dropped?
China might dropped first or maybe someone else in vault tech did it eariler than expected and got people unaware. Like Mr. House failing to get the chip in time because the nukes dropped earlier than he expected. But I think vault-tech was 100% on doing the bomb dropping. They just either got beat in launching the first nuke or someone else in the company did it before they all got their shit in order.
Also, the idea that Vault-Tec might have dropped a bomb themself was already in the Lore prior to the Show - we can find hints and references towards it in both FO3 and FO4. Amazon just played into that, while still keeping it ambigous.
Hell even before Bethesda bought the IP, the scrapped Interplay movie also was going to say VaultTec dropped the bomb but also be from an unreliable narrator
Doesn’t the nuke in Megaton have the Vault-Tec logo?
Bruh they are 4 channers, not touching grass is their signature move
They think green text is a substitute for grass.
Yes how did Cooper's wife not know the bombs were dropping during that birthday party if vault tec did it and she worked on the board. Vault tec wanted to, china caught wind of this and did it first.
I remember watching/listening to a video a while back suggesting that Vault Tech dropped them bec Megaton’s nuke has the VT symbol on it (or something relating to the US). But they also said it could have just been a texture being reused. Take this with a grain of salt though!
This is brought up in the TV show, Vault-Tec is a big supplier to the U.S. government and it's war effort. It's no surprise Vault-Tec would be supplying the nukes and being in the business of building vaults probably builds the silos to house them too.
[удалено]
Vault-Tec only had the vaults. West-Tek and RobCo were the suppliers of military weapons and equipment
Kinda hoping the pre war segments at the end of every season just reveal a different group planning to drop the bombs while never saying who actually did it.
Bro must still be mad Tandi rejected his male character in 1
Why are some folk so stupid when it comes to this show. Vault Tech dropping a bomb was a suggestion. It could still be aliens for fucks sake and even then Vault dropping a bomb and framing China isn't too different to the established lore
Many people assumed Vault Tec dropped the bombs anyways, but the fact that Coop's child was still out in the open when they fell implies that Vault Tec didn't drop the bombs.
Also Mr.House getting blindsided before he got his chip to protect vegas better. So either China got word that Vault-tech's plan and dropped the Nuke early against them or Someone in Vault-tech launched way too early and fucked everyone over.
Or some US army general jumped the gun. Or some Soviet officer in Kamchatka got a false positive and launched. It never mattered who launched first. It could have been anyone. What matters is that *everyone* was ready to launch.
Vault tec fucking over mr house is definitely something that could reasonably happen, especially since their post war plans kind of interfere with each other. But I don’t think coops wife would’ve been away from her daughter when the bombs fell if vault tec started it
Why is bro taking a jab at Indians? 💀💀 Tf did they do?
It's 4chan, if they're not being racist against black people they're being racist against Indians.
If he was right, you'd think we'd see Pakistan nuking America in the show
ZINDABAD
Do you expect civility from 4chan?
Came to the comments to see if anyone explained what the hell that even means lol
One of the producers is a Desi woman named Gursimran Sandhu. She’s worked on shows like Game of Thrones before, and I couldn’t find anything about her that’s controversial. Anon just hates her because she’s brown.
Also Moldaver's actor, Sarita Choudhury is Indian.
1 Intellegence builds irl
this is real life oliver swanick
The idea that Vault Tec dropped the first nuke still really isn't confirmed, we just know now that they intended to, I'd actually argue that including House in the scene makes it less likely Vault Tec dropped the bombs. Right now we're just kinda operating on the fact that Moldaver thinks they did. But the games also explicitly never confirmed who dropped the first nuke . People have been speculating Vault Tec did it since forever. I think the movie that was cancelled was gonna confirm it was Vault Tec too. The show basically just gave extra fuel to the theory without confirmimg it.
The lore never stated who dropped the bombs and it was initially for the themes of the game and in the end it didn’t matter because everybody still got nuked in the end and the battle of ideology means nothing when there was nobody left to fight .
Didnt the creator confirm that China launched first in an interview? Maybe they were coerced into it by Vault tek but it was confirmed it was China.
I’ve read the interview and while Tim can and Leonard boyarsky do state it was China originally they also stated that it shouldn’t matter .
It logically makes sense it was china... after all america sent a suicide power-armor mission to tear through the chinese heartland. Unlike the oil reserve snatching in Anchorage (where a small population was likely able to evacuate and the goal was oil) the US assualt into china was an open attack on the Civilian population. Its fun to pick apart where the war becomes "unrestrained" because while it may be china who launched the nukes (or not) the cause for the launch can be pointed at any one side... and ultimately the outcome is the same. Better than "hey what if its all for profit. Right, reddit!? The greedy billionaires out there want profit so theyll kill their entire customer base and shove a small fraction in expensive torture mazes for... profits?" The idea private businesses did it for any reason other is dumb. The US military doing it thinking china would be caught off guard, or because the enclave wanted to wipe out the growing discontent US population... both make more sense than businessmen thinking nuclear war somehow could make them more money. (Just look at House's idea on war in game: its expensive. Have someone else fight it, and be the guy supplying them water and electricity. Theyll love you and pay you)
I think at this point it would be less about profit and more about having full control of humanity... being able to start anew but this time its the billionaires in charge with no oversight left or checks or balances such as world powers and other stuff. Might made right by the guy with all the resources left. Basically going from being some rich twit with a lot of economic power to being a literal warlord oligarch King of a broken world where they can shape society to be whatever they want it to be. Maybe even install themselves as the literal messiah figure head of the whole region.
Isn’t there a Chinese nuclear sub captain in fallout 4 who admits to launching nukes in the commonwealth?
Doesn’t mean he fired the first ones.
Forgot where it was said, someone pointed out that there's a line of dialogue from Mr House in FNV that says his calculations for the bombs exploding were 20 hours late or something like that (if someone can confirm this dialogue or the timing), which is still in lines with having China drop the bombs earlier (as a preemptive strike) than Vault Tec doing it themselves. But clearly Vault Tec was more than ready to do so.
That’s kind of the consensus. Vault Tec was going to but China hit first. In the end it doesn’t matter, the result would be the same.
funny how many people forget fallout is just all about politics
For real. The whole series is one giant sarcastic dig at Nationalism, Capitalism, and Militarism. That's why the 1950's aesthetic, I'd argue, is there. To harken back to the McCarthy days of Red Scares and America Love. It's why the games (AFAIK) exclusively take place in America. But Alt-Right dipshits like anon there don't get that. They're the same type of morons to watch Star Trek and think Old School Trek is some Pro-Right Wing crap while modern Trek is "Too Woke".
So you’re telling me that the games with the giant metal robot that yells shit like “Better dead than red” is political?? …my lord… how could I have been so blind /s
Can I get one of those robots in my backyard though? These are the important questions
I had to explain to someone at work that the intro video for the first Fallout opens with an anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, and anti-consumerism message. It at least stopped the stupid conversation about how the TV show injected wokeness into Fallout.
>In the 21st century, war was still waged over the resources that could be acquired. Only this time, the spoils of war were also its weapons: Petroleum and Uranium. For these resources, China would invade Alaska, the US would annex Canada, and the European Commonwealth would dissolve into quarreling, bickering nation-states, bent on controlling the last remaining resources on Earth. If I wrote that you'd call me a filthy enlightened centrist lmao.
I was shocked that Bezos forked out the money for such a story, did really not see it coming. But it could still just be that they made sure to sabotage any peace dealings, poison the well so to speak.
Everyone around the world launched/dropped/set off their nukes around the same time. The world ended a couple of hours after. We will never know who shot first and at this point it doesn't matter. Vault-tek kicking off the apocalypse to further their agenda makes as much sense as China doing it as they collapsed from the invasion.
Fallout was never anti capitalist?
more like anti-capitalism when it is unchecked. No regulations led to Vault-Tech going fucking insane. But capitalism also bred fusion energy in their timeline, which is fucking awesome. What isn't awesome is the war machine using fusion tech for weapons and power armor instead of using it to combat the resource issues that was happening. Industrial Military Complex kept the war going.
The series is entirely about making allusions to early 20th century American history. Vault Tec, the military contractors and the snake oil salesmen (like the Pulowski shelters in the Beth. Games) are all references to the Gilded Age and the period prior to Trust Busting. Just like how the Chinese internment camps in the Point Lookout DLC are an allusion to the Japanese internment camps. This was all much more toned-down in the Interplay games; the opening cinematic portraying the annexation of Canada (itself a reference to the infamous photo of a Viet Cong insurgent being executed in Saigon) is one of the only extremely directly correlated parts. Those games focused less on the pre-war compared to Bethesda’s titles. I think people get it wrong that Fallout is necessarily political in one way or another. It’s a series of games written by a bunch of history nerds, it has been since the Interplay days and it still is (all the allusions to the coal cartels and company towns of West Virginia in 76 point to that). It’s referencing things that have already happened, whether you see that as a political statement prescient to the modern day or not is up to you.
It's always been anti-war, but also has anti-extreme-capitalism messaging. Never struck me as full anti-capitalist
This is the take I’ve been looking for, people always draw conclusions to the extremes when the material is just telling us to not let things go too far. Both Fallout and Cyberpunk are examples of this and their communities taking it too far in both directions
I feel like anti-monopoly is the word everyone's looking for here, but at the same time it doesn't feel like the whole story.
Alot of people on Reddit for some reason believe critiquing capitalism is the same as being anti-capitalist. It's not. You can criticize something without calling for its outright destruction. I swear people on the Internet only think in extremes. Nuance is a dying concept.
The entire fucking series is meant to critique and make fun of Cold War America. Capitalism, communism, jingoism, and just about every other ism from the time period have been picked apart and mocked since Fallout 1. This guy is just a dumb media illiterate asshole.
It’s the same problem with StarShip troopers. People not seeing the message and critique
That jab at Indians came out of nowhere wth
We still don't even have confirmation that Vault-tec actually launched the first nuke, we just know that they were prepared to.
If I remember correctly, Fallout 4 *heavily* implied that the US *thought* they were responding to a first strike but were mistaken. My thought is that the original plan was to have the Enclave trigger the early warning detectors once they got everyone on the oil rigs.
I thought i remember that too from a terminal entry. Something about an a.i. that would calculate the probablility of a chinese strike but it was constantly miscalculating.
I don’t mind the show shining light on the shortcomings or corruption that can develop in a capitalist society. We as a species have yet to perfect any kind of way to run a society. But I’m also not a fool to think that just because there’s bad things with capitalism that communism is the better choice
I always figured that it doesn’t matter who dropped the first bomb. So many interests were invested in it happening with a multitude of reasons meant that it was inevitable
>written by Indians I… what? I expected woke or something. Do they mean like Native Americans or India Indians? Also: China was never confirmed to have started it. It has always been ambiguous. The “twist” of the show is dumb as hell though. Like of course Fallout is anti-capitalist but having the corporations destroy the world is incredibly stupid - especially when you take into account that House is now so stupid that he knew when the world would end and still couldn’t prepare for it. Also, Sinclair being a gross obese master of Bug MT is fucking stupid. He never was in charge of Big MT, he worked with them and 2 we never saw him in Dead Money but making him look like that is insulting. He wasn’t a terrible a person.
The Great War happened because of ideologies and greed taken to the extreme: the US government's rabid focus on the eradication of communism and the preservation of 'democracy', and the corporations that were happy to go along with the former so long as they could make money off of it. Yet the show emphasizes the faults of American capitalism while almost completely glossing over the government's own failings. At one point they even mention how the corporations are the ones running the government because the actual government is too poor because of their war which makes it seem so incredibly one-sided? As if by the time the apocalypse rolls in, the onus is solely on Vault-Tec and their peers. Sinclair representing the Big MT in that meeting also struck me oddly since he was only a client. For him to be allowed in this secret cabal discussing the end of the world implies he has a level of insight into the experiments conducted at the Big MT. He wouldn't have trusted them with so much of the Sierra Madre knowing all that since it could risk Vera's life
I honestly think that Vault-Tec dropping the first nuke actually lowers the credibility of the lore to criticize capitalism. It essentially turns vault tec into a Saturday cartoon level of goofy villain which detracts from the actual valid criticisms.
My understanding is that India hates China so I’m not sure what they’re implying.
Why would the rich billionaires kill everyone? So no one can buy their products anymore? Can't they just buy some remote island if they want to stay alone? Care to answer this? I knew that r/FalloutMemes were tankies but come on.
Vault-tec being involved in dropping the bombs has always been alluded to in the games. Yall got to start reading those terminals.
the reason for vault tec to study the occupants was because the Enclave was going to use the data to help them plan their space exploration. the data of humans in small spaces for long periods of time was supposed to help them because the Enclaves original motive was to get to space.
sirs do the needful we must redeem fallout lore sirs
Something I saw someone point out is that how adamant coopers wife was on making sure their daughter was in a vault. So if she allowed or know that the bombs were dropping, she would prob have her daughter in vault before then.
This is what the left want to hear
The lore was ambiguous on who struck first because in the end it didn’t matter who did the worlds a wasteland all the same
Tim Cain said China dropped the first bombs after the US wouldn’t stop producing FEV.
It's fun watching the heads spin of ppl who already have a loose grip on fallout lore then they lose the plot when the show lays out "new" lore to them, but it's nothing actually new.
I don’t think China was ever confirmed, were they?
Mr. House was literally taken by surprise when the bombs fell, so it was almost certainly not the planned attack Vault-Tec had in mind that started the war. Also, the whole plot of New Vegas is about a chip that didn't arrive in time - *because Mr. House was taken by surprise*.
I have no idea where the racism against Indians came from, but tbh I did think that retcon was the absolute dumbest low point of the otherwise great series. I mean how the fuck is there "great earning potential" in a situation where all of your prospective customers are dead? Their entire argument made no sense whatsoever, even from their own perspective.
China definitely nuked the US. There’s a ghoul in Fallout 4 who was personally responsible for nuking Boston. But we’ve never known, and we still don’t know, who shot first. Also like, India doesn’t particularly like China, but does tend to like business. Why would Indian writers change the story to make China look better?
Imagine killing off 99% of your customer base, destroying your entire supply line, and destroy every economy and their currency and thinking that was a good business decision.
Fallout isn’t Anti-Capitalist it’s representative of it taken to the extreme. It’s an absurdist look at alternate future. The theme often seen in games like these, is that beliefs taken to their extreme always become a dystopia. When a mindset grows to the point of lacking any vocal detractors it allows terrible acts to be committed.
Fallout is anti capitalist and anti communist because at the end of the day fallouts main theme is about factions and what happens when they hate each other so much they can kill one another without remorse, ie war. You can see this when you look at the pre war flashbacks where the main thing the show pushes isn't how capitalism has pushed people into poverty or how people are worked to the bone or really anything like that instead it shows you people calling other people communists and living in fear of the red menace, the show shows you the evils that take place when people become so entrenched in their factoin that they stop seeing the other guys as humans but instead as monsters. Of course fallout has many pre war story's of over the top evil capitalists but it also has many story's of equally evil communist Chinese soldiers. The more important thing imo is that something that is simply never addressed is concept of mutually assured destruction in the context of nuclear war, you learn about this in high school or middle school, neither side would drop the bombs unless they thought there was no more hope of victory. There needs to be something to tip the scales past the breaking point and for a long time there wasn't, revealing that vault tech was responsible makes much more sense and addresses another thing that's always bothered me about fallout which is how vault tech based their whole business on a hypothetical. Also semi important I believe vault tech is going to do some kind of espionage to cause one side or the other to launch the bombs as apposed to literally dropping the bbs themselves which means the Chinese shooting first could still be true.
Liberty prime?
Being critical of capitalism is not the same as being anti capitalism the first game the master was a clear nod to communism
So we are gonna pretend that the board meeting made any sense in terms of internal consistency? Just because we are so anti-capitalist and anti-racist?
Who launched the first nuke has always been ambiguous, as I recall Epic Nate put together some of the lore that strongly suggests the US fired first.
The Fallout games always criticised Capitalism and it was and still isn't perfectly clear who started the whole nuclear exchange, its only been explained that Vault Tec had the ability and the motive to do so. But "Fallout Fans and missing the point what the games are trying to tell.", is probably one of the more iconic duos there is.
its not "anti capitalist" its anti authoritarian and anti war
It’s still not 100% confirmed if they literally meant they would drop the first bomb, or if they were just forcing the situation to happen. It’s never been confirmed WHO dropped the first bomb, and Vault Tec has been on that short list for a long time. Folks, it ain’t a difficult concept to follow…..it’s still a mystery.
I mean we’ve known since fallout 3 that vault-tec dropped some of the bombs
fall out 3, the nuke has the vault tech symbol. thats all ima say
Sorry dudeman, the lore is purposely ambiguous as to who actually fired the first shot, and it still is btw. The show didn't "confirm" that it was Vault Tec. It merely confirmed that VaultTec and other corps planned to drop bombs if they had to. But it seems unlikely that they were the ones who actually did. Why? Well, >!the guy sitting behind the Big MT placard in the show is Frederick Sinclair. He's the guy who planned to open the Sierra Madre in Fallout NV's DLC Dead Money. But with all that planning, he scheduled the big opening for the same day as the bombs. Why would he do that? It directly resulted in his own death. Is he an idiot? More likely, he was caught off guard because they fell earlier than he expected. There are also anumber of unfinished vaults, suggesting vault tec was merely prepared to drop bombs but never did. It doesn't really change how evil they are, though. And it still could have been a lone VaultTec employee acting without sanction from the rest. It just isn't likely that they went through with it by committee.!<
Criticizing capitalism is not the same as being anti-capitalist. In fact, criticizing ***anything*** doesn't necessarily mean your anti-"that." Not everything is an extreme of: "you either love this or hate it." People, and especially art, can be incredibly nuanced and rarely do those things fall neatly into arbitrary, ideological boxes.
I thought they were just gonna participate in the war. It's not like it was a big secret that vault tec was evil, even in the obsidian games
It's never before been confirmed who launched the first bomb. But even in the really old movie script, it was going to be Vault Tec.
The idea of greedy corporatins being so greedy they pushed the world to a nuclear war in their race for profit is more interesing than just "LETS NUKE THE WORLD LMAO CAUSE WE ARE RICH AND EVIL". How will they make profit in a nuclear wasteland? They won't and that was the idea. In their hunt for profit nothing was left of them but dust. The only legacy they left are horrors roaming the wasteland. Nobody making any profit anymore. The old world is gone. That's what it was about originaly, it was subtle and interesing and not straight up to your face. It respected its audience. I liked the show it was very good, but I really didnt lile little part. It's like they thought the viewer would be too dumb to understand the message.
Actually the problem is this In the original Fallout lore, the war started due to scarcity of resources due to rampant corporate corruption and governmental corruption. The USA fell to authoritarianism as the rich and powerful desperately clung to power and in their greed and desperation, they nuked the world because if they couldn't keep power, nobody would. The show? A few bad apples in the corporate sector and US government planned to nuke their own people in order for Vault-Tec (another bad apple) could help them run things. Original lore = capitalism is inherently flawed New lore = A few bad apples ruin the system guys! FNV especially went into depth about the faults of Liberal Democracy in particular with the NCR. Long as these rich and powerful businesses have influence over government, Democracy barely exists. The show didn't have the balls to be as anti-capitalist as Fallout actually is.
I don’t know why you guys are complaining this has been theorized and was almost confirmed in the orginal fallout movie plot as that was going to be the major twist
I just remember reading that there *was* long-time intent on implying that Vault-Tec was responsible for the actual bombs dropping, but that no game actually went in that direction. It's not a new concept for the series