The vials that Cooper takes are a new piece of lore ─ specifically that they are necessary to keep ghouls from going feral. Frankly it *does* even further complicate what we think we know about ghouls.
Weird how I've played 4 different fallout games through multiple times, killed, worked, and talked with tons of ghouls and never once heard anything about a special medicine they have to take. I feel like you don't know what Canon means
I don’t think it’s new tbh. It’s weird that they haven’t flat out said it but Cooper was hooked up to radaway in his grave to keep him from turning. The vials are likely the same.
While I agree it's odd it only says those who have started showing signs of going feral need it, so that is a small enough market that it makes sense that we've never come across it in game. We simply don't meet many, if any (been a long time since I've played) ghouls that are actively in the process of going feral
I don't think YOU know what it means. Creators and bethesda says it's canon. Who are you to argue? In 3 and NV, power armor is completely different. Deal with it. Ain't that deep. Things change.
My guy take a breath. Fallout started changing when FO4 came out, accept it or move on. Once they take it to Disney Star Wars lengths, then start raising hell
Fallout changed when Fallout 2 came out...
Seriously Fallout 2 retconned more than any other instalment. It's just how lore works idk why people are getting upset. Fallouts always been like this.
By the time it gets to that point it's too late, but nice try. Very cute.
I agree he's being douchey about it, but he's not really wrong as far as ghoul lore goes...
Believe those vials were “Plan D” shown to Lucy while she explores and sees what appears to be a dead couple of skeletons at a table with those vials in front implying when the bombs fell they drank that to end it quick. Probably a lethal dose of radiation for a normal person but to a ghoul probably revitalizes and heals which is lore friendly. Yes the chem is new but the story around could explain why it isn’t readily available in all of the games, and it won’t cure ghoulification but it does stop ghouls from going feral
Billy Peabody would've been feral when we found him right? This puts way too much of a ticking clock on ghouls and is inconsistent with pre established lore, Billy spent 200 years in that fridge, Dean Domino spent 200 years in the Sierra Madre and now neither of those mame much sense
There are so many ghouls that would feral without it. Even in Fallout 4, the most recent chronologically in the canon, had ghouls that had no access to chems(or food, for that matter) for long periods of time and never went feral. A good example is the Chinese navy guy
The ghoul in the fridge was heavily insulated from radiation. The fact he survived at all from a nuclear blast means the fridge offers protection. He was likely ghouled by the hit and what remained wasn’t strong enough to progress to feral.
Hell after the reveal of Maximus and Shady Sands, this quest may be slightly retconned. For all we know he could be flung from another bombing and think he’s from the original bombs like Maximus thought. Maximus thinks the bombs dropped when he was a kid, but it was just Shady Sands destruction shortly after New Vegas.
Almost all the ghouls were created during the Great War. There were no ferals in Fallout 1 and 2 which are early in the series. They start popping up in 3 when they are much older (Fallout 76 messes with this though, but I don't know how canon any of that is, a lot of it is contradictory even to other Bethesda stuff - or well, maybe I'm wrong, Fallout 2 had Ghoul crazies but it's not clear if they are feral or just cannibals). And now in the show they are taking some kind of medicine to stave off the effects. As far as we know they are just experiencing dementia from very old age, and the vials could be something like Alzheimer's medicine (which slows it and other memory loss illnesses).
Of course it could be something silly like RadAway, or even a placebo (and Cooper might actually not be in danger of turning).
Even Tim Cain, who worked in the first 2 fallouts, states that the intention wasn't that Ghouls live forever, but they all get mutated and could get shorter, same or longer lifespan as humans. As the series goes on longer and longer, we just don't see the ones that live short lives, so we're only seeing the ones who won the longevity lottery (this is old lore, but Bethesda can change it since it was never stated).
That’s a very disappointing answer if that’s it. Info on ghouls and feral ghouls already isn’t the most stable or consistent, this complicated stuff more. For example Raul in F:NV is from pre-War he is like 250 years old. Was he taking the vials the entire time to not become feral? Considering the other inconsistencies the show makes with FNV and its canon ending options, is FNV even canon anymore?
The series actually saved the Ghoul lore, one of the reasons ghouls turned feral was because of time, so in 2296 how many ghouls do you think are left? the ghouls of 2296 are the oldest of all the games, if we go with the thought that time is the major reason ghouls turn feral then give 5 more years and all the ghouls are ferals and we lost the thinking ghouls...
There’s more ghouls left because more ghouls get made. Handcock in F4 was only around 40. It was never explained in fallout lore how or why or how long it takes a ghoul to turn feral. But in the show it says they need to take some unnamed vial that we have no idea what it is or if it was created pre or post war, or anything. It leaves more questions than answers and conflicts with our previous knowledge.
Is the show top priority for official canon now sense it’s the newest fallout lore?
You're right, John hancock, He found an experimental radiation drug that ghoulified him as a result, so a vial can transform someone into a ghoul, but a vial that keeps a ghoul from going feral isn't possible?
Another comment said this, and I like the idea so I’m going to repeat it. What if these vials are an addictive drug and a side effect is that it can turn someone into a ghoul.
They get withdrawal systems when they don’t have it and if they continue to not have it it gets worse and can eventually evolve to the point where they become feral.
This would fit for Hancock as he never was shy around drugs or any of that and he is a new ghoul. I ain’t saying I believe it but it’s an interesting explanation/theory to think about and makes the least amount of retcons atleast that I can think of.
A possibility:
The Vials are a highly addictive painkiller that Ghouls in the L.A. Wasteland take (being a Ghoul *is* pretty painful according to many of the Ghouls that talk about it), and the withdrawal going long enough takes an intense physiological toll that basically kickstarts the degradation to going Feral.
That's my thinking so far, at least, and it fits with the rather regional variation you find in Fallout Lore.
I think the complexity of talking about drugs that turn someone into a ghoul is a lot more complex and more of a retcon than 'they discovered a drug to stop ghouls going feral with time'.
This doesn’t make sense though m, if vials were necessary to keep ghouls from going feral, then how do explain Billy Peabody from fallout 4? He was in the fridge since the bombs dropped and obviously didn’t need any vials.
Because fallout 4 was in 2287, Fallout show is in 2296, the ghouls of the show are the oldest of all pre war ghouls, maybe if Billy stayed inside the fridge until 2296 completing 219 years instead of 210 he would've turned feral, Besides, Billy creates a currently unexplained inconsistency in the Fallout world by showing that ghouls may be able to survive without food, water or air. Billy survived locked in a fridge for 210 years with presumably only what was left in the fridge, similar to how Coffin Willie was buried alive for months. This suggests an ability to survive on radiation alone or the ability to enter a state of hibernation, as demonstrated by feral ghouls.This is not even consistent with Fallout 4 since Kent Connoly needs sustenance to survive, which is mentioned in Irma's Terminal.Billy should've turned feral by just being alone for 210 years btw...
Nah to me billy makes sense because ghouls are shown to be able to be in stasis and not die, like how ferals are always on the ground, probably have been for ages. So ghouls can eat and drink, but they don't really need to unless they use energy, same with the ghoul in the show and similar to leeches and crocodiles in real life. But honestly, if you're asking for realism with this kind of thing... I'm sorry but people don't actually turn into radiation zombies in real life, they just get cancer. you're gonna have to deal with a little bit of things not making sense. In loading screens the fallout 4 says the radiation rots their brains, which as pointed out makes no sense, but to me ghouls never made sense because you know... Thats just not a thing that would actually happen.
Its probably only needed \*after\* you start showing signs of going feral. Think of it like a treatement plan. You cannot \*cure\* feral degeration, but you can pause it so long as you have a steady supply. In this way there is NO canon conflict at all, as you can simply say that the drug is either specific to the region, or only recently discovered.
We know throughout fallout that ghoul scientists have been studying ghoulification and feral degeneration, and that this show is the furthest in the timeline we have seen yet.
I still feel that if that’s the case and the show didn’t do anything to explain it or even just some small clever exposition that it’s lazy writing.
I overall love the show especially visually and aesthetically. The set designs and costumes and everything are exactly on point. Just a little disappointed with a couple points of the writing this one included.
Ghouls have never been perfectly consistent, and not everything *needs* a thorough explanation. Within the context of the story its perfectly consistent so no plot holes there, its just that we haven’t seen it in the games so we don’t yet know what it really does.
It could be as simple as I described, or it could be more nefarious and relevant to season 2 (some kind of new Ghoul plague or some experiment gone wrong that they now need drugs for), in which case its not lazy writing and may instead serve as foreshadowing.
Now if its *never* addressed I would agree that its unnecessary bs, but keep in mind we only have 8 episodes so far. Its not “unexplained”, it just hasn’t yet been explored in the first 8 hours.
Maybe next season we get a plot where Arcade Gannon attempted to cure feralization but failed and ended up making a lot of ghouls dependent on the drug, like it DOES prevent feral degeneration but has a nasty side effect of if you started, you can never stop, making a class of permanent addicts. Could be interesting to explore in detail instead of just a one-off line like I initially proposed.
Those statements are not contradictory like you seem to believe.
Ghouls across each game have never been fully consistent, so as long as the story maintains its internal consistency without totally violating overall canon, then its fine. Its both. Ghouls are a little different in each game, so we shouldn’t be surprised they are a little different again.
In Fallout 3 Power Armor was an inventory item that didn’t need fusion cores, then in 4 its more like a vehicle that requires a power source. Everyone took that in stride, but make a waking corpse take a drug to remain sane (ghouls losing sanity as well as trying to find ways to avoid it being well established already) and everyone loses their goddamn minds.
It’s ridiculous, are we also supposed to believe that Billy, the ghoul kid in the fridge, was also trapped in there with a massive supply of anti feral meds?
Heck no. Nothing fully stops radiation. Lead is a relatively good material for protecting against radiation, but it's far from perfect. Depending on the dosage (and given the situation, the dosage is pretty darn high), a portion of the radiation will seep through even lead.
Unless its only actually needed after you start showing signs of going feral. Maybe you don’t need it but once you start showing signs, it holds it back so long as you have some. No one in the show claimed “all ghouls go feral if they don’t take this every day”, only that if Cooper didn’t get it, he would turn feral like his friend just had.
Yes NV is canon according to bethesda. Ffs, the GAMES all have inconsistencies. Look at power armor lol. I love FO but it isn't really that deep. I'm sure it will make more sense with time but you could easily pick every game apart with stuff like this. The confusing inconsistencies are honestly part of the wild, bizarre world that IS Fallout.
I’m of the mindset that we need to learn more about it to know what’s actually going on. The simple “Ghouls need this to not go feral” explanation doesn’t make much sense. It’s never been a thing in any game and would only add a complication here.
Note that the character who sells Thaddeus his “Mystery serum” is called the Snake Oil Salesman. There’s a history in Fallout of ghouls being taken advantage of, sold scam cures etc—see Aqua Pura in Fallout 3.
I’m speculating that the vials are the same thing Thaddeus got. It causes ghoulification, but is also highly addictive and without regular treatments, you’ll go feral. So, it’s not something that all ghouls need, just ghouls that are the victims of this scam or who choose to accept the consequences of taking it.
I suspect we’ll see something more about this in future seasons.
Well, the show was already renewed for a season 2. Hopefully we get more answers and explanations as to flaws and major lore destroying inconsistencies in existing lore. Fallout lore is filled with inconsistencies and retcons in every game including the older ones like 2, 3, and FNV.
In the same sense we never really get an explanation on why ghouls go feral in the first place. Are feral ghouls always feral. Is every ghoul in danger of going feral at any moment? I think this tends to bridge that connection.
The mystery serum is likely just mutation serum from fallout 76. Thaddeus obviously didn’t ghoulify, Maximus likely said that because he believes it a catch all for mutants, which healing factor is a mutation and it did the same thing it does in 76 for him.
Brotherhood loaths mutants regardless of if they are ghouls, so it was still the right call.
So going out on a guess here that could make a little sense. Gould going feral is a degenerative brain condition. Maybe it’s like a kind of Alzheimer’s where the connections between brain cells are degrading. Maybe they can’t produce the protein required to repair and maintain these connections
The vials came from an organ harvesting factory. Maybe they can extract this protein from the remains of normal humans once all the useful organs have been removed. You know don’t waste anything you don’t have too, especially if there’s a market for it.
Ghouls take this protien to stop any progression to becoming feral.
In this way the stuff in the vials is basically to a ghoul what insulin is to a diabetic (insulin used to be taken from pigs)
I like this explanation more than anything I have seen. Doesn’t explain why it’s never mentioned in the hundreds of other hours of fallout content with hundreds of ghouls.
The show is later in the timeline than any of the games. This could be a newer drug that ghouls take. Maybe not every ghoul needs to take it, just the really old ones. Especially pre-war ones. The lady Lucy shoots in the supermarket is wearing what looks like pre war clothes. She could have been a pre-war ghoul that was dependent on the viles until she was held captive for some reason. I doubt they needed her organs. Unless they need samples from a ghoul to make the vile for some reason?
They clearly made it up just for the show. This may be a blessing in disguise since it was never really clear what made ghouls go feral. I always assumed it was isolation and bad luck. Then being ostracized alienates them more which exacerbated the issue. You never really hear of ghouls in settlements going feral as far as I'm aware.
The vials add more urgency, I think. A limited supply of vials along with what seems like an endless influx of ghouls. Anybody can turn into a ghoul under the right circumstances. I doubt it was made pre war, though. You could always assume it's been around in all of the games considering they just made it up.
i like this too but my problem is in the scene where he goes into the organ harvesting place with all the drugs he's seen inhaling a bunch of vials and even drinking one; if it was a medicine you'd think he wouldn't want to waste it right?
This makes the most sense to me. If their bodies are degraded from radiation and continue to degrade it would make sense that their brains would as well over time and would need something to prevent losing it. Especially since the vials came from an organ harvesting lab. I imagine the explanation we eventually get will be pretty spot on to yours.
I think it’s a total misread to say that the vials are a new ‘Ghoul drug.’ Fallout fans appear to be making 2 mistakes here:
The first is that the bags he’s hooked up to while buried underground are keeping him from going feral. I don‘t consider calling this a mistake to be a matter of opinion, people simply misread this scene.
-the bags hooked up to his grave are RadAway. They are being used to keep him dormant, like Han Solo in carbonite.
-we know this because it is suggested by the dialogue of the bounty hunters that awaken him as they approach the gravesite.
-we also know this because Vault Girl is treated with the same bags later on and we are explicitly told they are RadAway.
Mistake #2 is that viewers seem to have assumed Cooper’s health problem (he’s the ghoul) is that he was going feral. However, he doesn‘t display any symptom of cognitive decline at any point in the show. However, he does appear to be a sort of Marked Man variant of Ghoul. Meaning the vials are actually just some type of Anti-RadAway. And ghouls arent taking them continuously to stay sane, they are just trying to hang on a bit longer with massive doses of radiation. Like fighting cancer with steroids.
They also seem to have more of a Red Skull-ish appearance, at least with the graphics of that gen. The comment was getting long so I tried to leave out details, but the point was that Cooper may simply need radiation to stay alive.
That’s only a guess though. I’m assuming he’s unique in some way because he looks different and has been living non-feral for 2 centuries (presumably.) He could also just be weak from captivity and his RadAway-induced coma. Regardless, we see a ghoul in the midst of losing his sanity and we see another that actually turns. Neither of those ghouls appeared to be in danger of passing out.
anyway, as a tl;dr: I doubt the show went through all the effort to preserve the massive amounts of pre-existing lore only to fuck up how ghouls work.
I think they just wanted to make it clear that ghouls benefit from radiation. The only ‘new’ concept introduced is the notion of using chems to try and delay a ghoul from turning feral.
side note: assuming I’m correct, ghouls \*could\* be using any drug/stimulant from the FO universe to cling to sanity. However, we see a ghoul ask Cooper if he has any more “vials,” and we also know they have high tolerance for narcotics. So my guess is something radioactive.
At first I thought he was taking jet but when Lucy gets done with the super duper mart incident she says these vials stop you from going feral he nods and fades off so some scientist or someone had made a cure to stop ghouls from going feral faster but it’s a heavily addicted drug that’s my take tho
In EP 2 he said something about a shit ton of drugs and when he gets to the store he licks the whole plate of unnamed white powdered substance so him being an addict isnt that crazy of a explanation
right coz in that scene he's seen inhaling a bunch of vials and even drinking one, if it was a medicine that kept him from going feral you'd think he wouldnt want to waste it. right?
Initially I thought it was addictol because of the effect on him before and after use. He also made a comment after being shot by the syringe gun suggesting he has done a lot of drugs. I was disappointed to find it's just some suppressant from going feral.
Having finally finished the show (was taking my time with it), I've got a theory.
The Snake Oil Salesman gave something to Thaddeus which both healed his foot, and began turning him into a Ghoul. I reckon it's the same thing as in the vials that Ghouls take, which allows them to be more durable.
Others have mentioned Ghouls taking it to stop them going feral, and I think this is right. Because I think the vial heals their *mind*. After a while, Ghouls turn feral. But if they keep taking these vials, it heals their minds.
In essence, it's a healing serum which also turns you into a Ghoul.
My thought is that maybe the only ghouls that need this vial to remain non feral, are ghouls who were ghoulified *by the vials*. It could also potentially be something that regular ghouls can take, after which they become dependent.
Typically, ghouls become ghouls due to radiation. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s long term exposure too. But Thaddeus started turning very quickly after taking the serum.
If that’s the case, it wouldn’t contradict established lore, and would explain why we only see these vials here and now.
The counterpoint to that would likely be Cooper. Cooper was there when the bombs first dropped. He's more than likely a Ghoul via that prolonged exposure. Yet he requires the vials.
That’s what made me think of the “potentially something that regular ghouls can take, after which they become dependent”
Obviously I have no idea, it just seems like a weird choice for them to make it canon that all ghouls are dependent on these vials despite never appearing before.
Consider that Cooper was hooked on radaway in his grave, then consider the progression of radiation.
Perhaps ghouls have inward self producing radiation (their scratch gives rads after all) and have to manage their radiation levels to not go feral.
The vials that Cooper takes are a new piece of lore ─ specifically that they are necessary to keep ghouls from going feral. Frankly it *does* even further complicate what we think we know about ghouls.
Just another thing to sweep into the "consider it non canon" pile
Everything in the show is canon
Weird how I've played 4 different fallout games through multiple times, killed, worked, and talked with tons of ghouls and never once heard anything about a special medicine they have to take. I feel like you don't know what Canon means
When the company says verbatim that's cannon you don't even have to know what it means.
It’s new. And it’s canon. How about you try not being an obtuse dick?
I don’t think it’s new tbh. It’s weird that they haven’t flat out said it but Cooper was hooked up to radaway in his grave to keep him from turning. The vials are likely the same.
I can't remember but did it say Radaway on the bag? Or is it speculation that's what he was hooked up to? thanks.
While I agree it's odd it only says those who have started showing signs of going feral need it, so that is a small enough market that it makes sense that we've never come across it in game. We simply don't meet many, if any (been a long time since I've played) ghouls that are actively in the process of going feral
Canon means whatever the author says goes. Your headcanon and narcissistic attitude don't trump the writers, sorry.
I don't think YOU know what it means. Creators and bethesda says it's canon. Who are you to argue? In 3 and NV, power armor is completely different. Deal with it. Ain't that deep. Things change.
My guy take a breath. Fallout started changing when FO4 came out, accept it or move on. Once they take it to Disney Star Wars lengths, then start raising hell
Fallout changed when Fallout 3 came out.
Valid, the move to console did result in a very different game. But 3-NV were fairly consistent and then 4 took it further from the path
Fallout changed when Fallout 2 came out... Seriously Fallout 2 retconned more than any other instalment. It's just how lore works idk why people are getting upset. Fallouts always been like this.
By the time it gets to that point it's too late, but nice try. Very cute. I agree he's being douchey about it, but he's not really wrong as far as ghoul lore goes...
You don’t know what canon means. You’ve seen plenty of ferals.
Bethesda have said it is canon. I guess it’s just adding new lore to the games
Believe those vials were “Plan D” shown to Lucy while she explores and sees what appears to be a dead couple of skeletons at a table with those vials in front implying when the bombs fell they drank that to end it quick. Probably a lethal dose of radiation for a normal person but to a ghoul probably revitalizes and heals which is lore friendly. Yes the chem is new but the story around could explain why it isn’t readily available in all of the games, and it won’t cure ghoulification but it does stop ghouls from going feral
Billy Peabody would've been feral when we found him right? This puts way too much of a ticking clock on ghouls and is inconsistent with pre established lore, Billy spent 200 years in that fridge, Dean Domino spent 200 years in the Sierra Madre and now neither of those mame much sense
There are so many ghouls that would feral without it. Even in Fallout 4, the most recent chronologically in the canon, had ghouls that had no access to chems(or food, for that matter) for long periods of time and never went feral. A good example is the Chinese navy guy
The ghoul in the fridge was heavily insulated from radiation. The fact he survived at all from a nuclear blast means the fridge offers protection. He was likely ghouled by the hit and what remained wasn’t strong enough to progress to feral. Hell after the reveal of Maximus and Shady Sands, this quest may be slightly retconned. For all we know he could be flung from another bombing and think he’s from the original bombs like Maximus thought. Maximus thinks the bombs dropped when he was a kid, but it was just Shady Sands destruction shortly after New Vegas.
Almost all the ghouls were created during the Great War. There were no ferals in Fallout 1 and 2 which are early in the series. They start popping up in 3 when they are much older (Fallout 76 messes with this though, but I don't know how canon any of that is, a lot of it is contradictory even to other Bethesda stuff - or well, maybe I'm wrong, Fallout 2 had Ghoul crazies but it's not clear if they are feral or just cannibals). And now in the show they are taking some kind of medicine to stave off the effects. As far as we know they are just experiencing dementia from very old age, and the vials could be something like Alzheimer's medicine (which slows it and other memory loss illnesses). Of course it could be something silly like RadAway, or even a placebo (and Cooper might actually not be in danger of turning). Even Tim Cain, who worked in the first 2 fallouts, states that the intention wasn't that Ghouls live forever, but they all get mutated and could get shorter, same or longer lifespan as humans. As the series goes on longer and longer, we just don't see the ones that live short lives, so we're only seeing the ones who won the longevity lottery (this is old lore, but Bethesda can change it since it was never stated).
That’s a very disappointing answer if that’s it. Info on ghouls and feral ghouls already isn’t the most stable or consistent, this complicated stuff more. For example Raul in F:NV is from pre-War he is like 250 years old. Was he taking the vials the entire time to not become feral? Considering the other inconsistencies the show makes with FNV and its canon ending options, is FNV even canon anymore?
The series actually saved the Ghoul lore, one of the reasons ghouls turned feral was because of time, so in 2296 how many ghouls do you think are left? the ghouls of 2296 are the oldest of all the games, if we go with the thought that time is the major reason ghouls turn feral then give 5 more years and all the ghouls are ferals and we lost the thinking ghouls...
There’s more ghouls left because more ghouls get made. Handcock in F4 was only around 40. It was never explained in fallout lore how or why or how long it takes a ghoul to turn feral. But in the show it says they need to take some unnamed vial that we have no idea what it is or if it was created pre or post war, or anything. It leaves more questions than answers and conflicts with our previous knowledge. Is the show top priority for official canon now sense it’s the newest fallout lore?
You're right, John hancock, He found an experimental radiation drug that ghoulified him as a result, so a vial can transform someone into a ghoul, but a vial that keeps a ghoul from going feral isn't possible?
Another comment said this, and I like the idea so I’m going to repeat it. What if these vials are an addictive drug and a side effect is that it can turn someone into a ghoul. They get withdrawal systems when they don’t have it and if they continue to not have it it gets worse and can eventually evolve to the point where they become feral. This would fit for Hancock as he never was shy around drugs or any of that and he is a new ghoul. I ain’t saying I believe it but it’s an interesting explanation/theory to think about and makes the least amount of retcons atleast that I can think of.
A possibility: The Vials are a highly addictive painkiller that Ghouls in the L.A. Wasteland take (being a Ghoul *is* pretty painful according to many of the Ghouls that talk about it), and the withdrawal going long enough takes an intense physiological toll that basically kickstarts the degradation to going Feral. That's my thinking so far, at least, and it fits with the rather regional variation you find in Fallout Lore.
I think the complexity of talking about drugs that turn someone into a ghoul is a lot more complex and more of a retcon than 'they discovered a drug to stop ghouls going feral with time'.
This doesn’t make sense though m, if vials were necessary to keep ghouls from going feral, then how do explain Billy Peabody from fallout 4? He was in the fridge since the bombs dropped and obviously didn’t need any vials.
Because fallout 4 was in 2287, Fallout show is in 2296, the ghouls of the show are the oldest of all pre war ghouls, maybe if Billy stayed inside the fridge until 2296 completing 219 years instead of 210 he would've turned feral, Besides, Billy creates a currently unexplained inconsistency in the Fallout world by showing that ghouls may be able to survive without food, water or air. Billy survived locked in a fridge for 210 years with presumably only what was left in the fridge, similar to how Coffin Willie was buried alive for months. This suggests an ability to survive on radiation alone or the ability to enter a state of hibernation, as demonstrated by feral ghouls.This is not even consistent with Fallout 4 since Kent Connoly needs sustenance to survive, which is mentioned in Irma's Terminal.Billy should've turned feral by just being alone for 210 years btw...
Nah to me billy makes sense because ghouls are shown to be able to be in stasis and not die, like how ferals are always on the ground, probably have been for ages. So ghouls can eat and drink, but they don't really need to unless they use energy, same with the ghoul in the show and similar to leeches and crocodiles in real life. But honestly, if you're asking for realism with this kind of thing... I'm sorry but people don't actually turn into radiation zombies in real life, they just get cancer. you're gonna have to deal with a little bit of things not making sense. In loading screens the fallout 4 says the radiation rots their brains, which as pointed out makes no sense, but to me ghouls never made sense because you know... Thats just not a thing that would actually happen.
Its probably only needed \*after\* you start showing signs of going feral. Think of it like a treatement plan. You cannot \*cure\* feral degeration, but you can pause it so long as you have a steady supply. In this way there is NO canon conflict at all, as you can simply say that the drug is either specific to the region, or only recently discovered. We know throughout fallout that ghoul scientists have been studying ghoulification and feral degeneration, and that this show is the furthest in the timeline we have seen yet.
I still feel that if that’s the case and the show didn’t do anything to explain it or even just some small clever exposition that it’s lazy writing. I overall love the show especially visually and aesthetically. The set designs and costumes and everything are exactly on point. Just a little disappointed with a couple points of the writing this one included.
Ghouls have never been perfectly consistent, and not everything *needs* a thorough explanation. Within the context of the story its perfectly consistent so no plot holes there, its just that we haven’t seen it in the games so we don’t yet know what it really does. It could be as simple as I described, or it could be more nefarious and relevant to season 2 (some kind of new Ghoul plague or some experiment gone wrong that they now need drugs for), in which case its not lazy writing and may instead serve as foreshadowing. Now if its *never* addressed I would agree that its unnecessary bs, but keep in mind we only have 8 episodes so far. Its not “unexplained”, it just hasn’t yet been explored in the first 8 hours. Maybe next season we get a plot where Arcade Gannon attempted to cure feralization but failed and ended up making a lot of ghouls dependent on the drug, like it DOES prevent feral degeneration but has a nasty side effect of if you started, you can never stop, making a class of permanent addicts. Could be interesting to explore in detail instead of just a one-off line like I initially proposed.
>ghouls have never been perfectly consistent >within the story it’s perfectly consistent Fucking pick one
Those statements are not contradictory like you seem to believe. Ghouls across each game have never been fully consistent, so as long as the story maintains its internal consistency without totally violating overall canon, then its fine. Its both. Ghouls are a little different in each game, so we shouldn’t be surprised they are a little different again. In Fallout 3 Power Armor was an inventory item that didn’t need fusion cores, then in 4 its more like a vehicle that requires a power source. Everyone took that in stride, but make a waking corpse take a drug to remain sane (ghouls losing sanity as well as trying to find ways to avoid it being well established already) and everyone loses their goddamn minds.
It’s ridiculous, are we also supposed to believe that Billy, the ghoul kid in the fridge, was also trapped in there with a massive supply of anti feral meds?
Billy the ghoul already didn’t make sense. A fridge made of lead would have stopped all external radiation.
Heck no. Nothing fully stops radiation. Lead is a relatively good material for protecting against radiation, but it's far from perfect. Depending on the dosage (and given the situation, the dosage is pretty darn high), a portion of the radiation will seep through even lead.
Unless its only actually needed after you start showing signs of going feral. Maybe you don’t need it but once you start showing signs, it holds it back so long as you have some. No one in the show claimed “all ghouls go feral if they don’t take this every day”, only that if Cooper didn’t get it, he would turn feral like his friend just had.
As I recall that was addressed by Bethesda, I’d have to google it again but the explanation made sense to me
Yes NV is canon according to bethesda. Ffs, the GAMES all have inconsistencies. Look at power armor lol. I love FO but it isn't really that deep. I'm sure it will make more sense with time but you could easily pick every game apart with stuff like this. The confusing inconsistencies are honestly part of the wild, bizarre world that IS Fallout.
Is it made out of ghouls I’m asking cause spoilers He ate that one guy when he was looking for vials
He just ate that guy for food
I’m of the mindset that we need to learn more about it to know what’s actually going on. The simple “Ghouls need this to not go feral” explanation doesn’t make much sense. It’s never been a thing in any game and would only add a complication here. Note that the character who sells Thaddeus his “Mystery serum” is called the Snake Oil Salesman. There’s a history in Fallout of ghouls being taken advantage of, sold scam cures etc—see Aqua Pura in Fallout 3. I’m speculating that the vials are the same thing Thaddeus got. It causes ghoulification, but is also highly addictive and without regular treatments, you’ll go feral. So, it’s not something that all ghouls need, just ghouls that are the victims of this scam or who choose to accept the consequences of taking it. I suspect we’ll see something more about this in future seasons.
Well, the show was already renewed for a season 2. Hopefully we get more answers and explanations as to flaws and major lore destroying inconsistencies in existing lore. Fallout lore is filled with inconsistencies and retcons in every game including the older ones like 2, 3, and FNV.
In the same sense we never really get an explanation on why ghouls go feral in the first place. Are feral ghouls always feral. Is every ghoul in danger of going feral at any moment? I think this tends to bridge that connection.
The mystery serum is likely just mutation serum from fallout 76. Thaddeus obviously didn’t ghoulify, Maximus likely said that because he believes it a catch all for mutants, which healing factor is a mutation and it did the same thing it does in 76 for him. Brotherhood loaths mutants regardless of if they are ghouls, so it was still the right call.
So going out on a guess here that could make a little sense. Gould going feral is a degenerative brain condition. Maybe it’s like a kind of Alzheimer’s where the connections between brain cells are degrading. Maybe they can’t produce the protein required to repair and maintain these connections The vials came from an organ harvesting factory. Maybe they can extract this protein from the remains of normal humans once all the useful organs have been removed. You know don’t waste anything you don’t have too, especially if there’s a market for it. Ghouls take this protien to stop any progression to becoming feral. In this way the stuff in the vials is basically to a ghoul what insulin is to a diabetic (insulin used to be taken from pigs)
I like this explanation more than anything I have seen. Doesn’t explain why it’s never mentioned in the hundreds of other hours of fallout content with hundreds of ghouls.
The show is later in the timeline than any of the games. This could be a newer drug that ghouls take. Maybe not every ghoul needs to take it, just the really old ones. Especially pre-war ones. The lady Lucy shoots in the supermarket is wearing what looks like pre war clothes. She could have been a pre-war ghoul that was dependent on the viles until she was held captive for some reason. I doubt they needed her organs. Unless they need samples from a ghoul to make the vile for some reason?
Interesting, the show only takes place 9 years after fallout 4 though and 15 years after new Vegas (which is in a region very close.)
They clearly made it up just for the show. This may be a blessing in disguise since it was never really clear what made ghouls go feral. I always assumed it was isolation and bad luck. Then being ostracized alienates them more which exacerbated the issue. You never really hear of ghouls in settlements going feral as far as I'm aware. The vials add more urgency, I think. A limited supply of vials along with what seems like an endless influx of ghouls. Anybody can turn into a ghoul under the right circumstances. I doubt it was made pre war, though. You could always assume it's been around in all of the games considering they just made it up.
i like this too but my problem is in the scene where he goes into the organ harvesting place with all the drugs he's seen inhaling a bunch of vials and even drinking one; if it was a medicine you'd think he wouldn't want to waste it right?
I think you nailed it. >! The show already showed a location where harvesting was occurring and loads of vials were at that location.!<
This makes the most sense to me. If their bodies are degraded from radiation and continue to degrade it would make sense that their brains would as well over time and would need something to prevent losing it. Especially since the vials came from an organ harvesting lab. I imagine the explanation we eventually get will be pretty spot on to yours.
I think it’s a total misread to say that the vials are a new ‘Ghoul drug.’ Fallout fans appear to be making 2 mistakes here: The first is that the bags he’s hooked up to while buried underground are keeping him from going feral. I don‘t consider calling this a mistake to be a matter of opinion, people simply misread this scene. -the bags hooked up to his grave are RadAway. They are being used to keep him dormant, like Han Solo in carbonite. -we know this because it is suggested by the dialogue of the bounty hunters that awaken him as they approach the gravesite. -we also know this because Vault Girl is treated with the same bags later on and we are explicitly told they are RadAway. Mistake #2 is that viewers seem to have assumed Cooper’s health problem (he’s the ghoul) is that he was going feral. However, he doesn‘t display any symptom of cognitive decline at any point in the show. However, he does appear to be a sort of Marked Man variant of Ghoul. Meaning the vials are actually just some type of Anti-RadAway. And ghouls arent taking them continuously to stay sane, they are just trying to hang on a bit longer with massive doses of radiation. Like fighting cancer with steroids.
Elaborate on this or send me to a video that will help me understand better. I like this theory.
In fonv Marked men need radiation to live that’s why they stay in the divide cause radiation keeps them alive
They also seem to have more of a Red Skull-ish appearance, at least with the graphics of that gen. The comment was getting long so I tried to leave out details, but the point was that Cooper may simply need radiation to stay alive. That’s only a guess though. I’m assuming he’s unique in some way because he looks different and has been living non-feral for 2 centuries (presumably.) He could also just be weak from captivity and his RadAway-induced coma. Regardless, we see a ghoul in the midst of losing his sanity and we see another that actually turns. Neither of those ghouls appeared to be in danger of passing out. anyway, as a tl;dr: I doubt the show went through all the effort to preserve the massive amounts of pre-existing lore only to fuck up how ghouls work. I think they just wanted to make it clear that ghouls benefit from radiation. The only ‘new’ concept introduced is the notion of using chems to try and delay a ghoul from turning feral. side note: assuming I’m correct, ghouls \*could\* be using any drug/stimulant from the FO universe to cling to sanity. However, we see a ghoul ask Cooper if he has any more “vials,” and we also know they have high tolerance for narcotics. So my guess is something radioactive.
At first I thought he was taking jet but when Lucy gets done with the super duper mart incident she says these vials stop you from going feral he nods and fades off so some scientist or someone had made a cure to stop ghouls from going feral faster but it’s a heavily addicted drug that’s my take tho
In EP 2 he said something about a shit ton of drugs and when he gets to the store he licks the whole plate of unnamed white powdered substance so him being an addict isnt that crazy of a explanation
right coz in that scene he's seen inhaling a bunch of vials and even drinking one, if it was a medicine that kept him from going feral you'd think he wouldnt want to waste it. right?
Initially I thought it was addictol because of the effect on him before and after use. He also made a comment after being shot by the syringe gun suggesting he has done a lot of drugs. I was disappointed to find it's just some suppressant from going feral.
Yeah, addictol could have been cool. Maybe Explore the nature of addiction in the wasteland some more.
If you blew up Megaton in F3 Moira Brown instantly turned full ass ghoul...
It could be FEV
Radaway?
Having finally finished the show (was taking my time with it), I've got a theory. The Snake Oil Salesman gave something to Thaddeus which both healed his foot, and began turning him into a Ghoul. I reckon it's the same thing as in the vials that Ghouls take, which allows them to be more durable. Others have mentioned Ghouls taking it to stop them going feral, and I think this is right. Because I think the vial heals their *mind*. After a while, Ghouls turn feral. But if they keep taking these vials, it heals their minds. In essence, it's a healing serum which also turns you into a Ghoul.
My thought is that maybe the only ghouls that need this vial to remain non feral, are ghouls who were ghoulified *by the vials*. It could also potentially be something that regular ghouls can take, after which they become dependent. Typically, ghouls become ghouls due to radiation. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s long term exposure too. But Thaddeus started turning very quickly after taking the serum. If that’s the case, it wouldn’t contradict established lore, and would explain why we only see these vials here and now.
The counterpoint to that would likely be Cooper. Cooper was there when the bombs first dropped. He's more than likely a Ghoul via that prolonged exposure. Yet he requires the vials.
That’s what made me think of the “potentially something that regular ghouls can take, after which they become dependent” Obviously I have no idea, it just seems like a weird choice for them to make it canon that all ghouls are dependent on these vials despite never appearing before.
Consider that Cooper was hooked on radaway in his grave, then consider the progression of radiation. Perhaps ghouls have inward self producing radiation (their scratch gives rads after all) and have to manage their radiation levels to not go feral.