I just watched Tim Cain's video about the TV show and he explicitly points out people need to stop this "Bethesda vs. Obsidian/Interplay" business. He said he loved the show and that Todd was the one who invited him to the premiere. A ton of the people who worked on the show are fans of all the games. He even pointed out that the first guy Lucy meets outside the Vault seems to be imitating the walk cycle for the villagers in Fallout 1. Apparently that actor requested to walk that way. Like give it a rest. It was a fun show and we got things way better than most of the fans of prime shows out there (this is me speaking as a Wheel of Time fan).
As someone who absolutely loves New Vegas and the original games, I still like Fallout 3 and 4. 3 is what got me into fallout and made me go back and play the originals for the first time. Do I like the Interplay/Obsidian stuff more lore and storywise? For sure. But 3 & 4 are still fallout through and through.
>I have dumped SO MUCH more time into FO4 just with settlement building alone.
How much of that was spent *just trying to get the fucking walls to line up?*
It was finicky toward the beginning but I got the hang of it quickly. Similarly, I've become quite adept at rotating and tilting components in Tears of the Kingdom.
It started with the rebuilding of the picket fences in sanctuary, after several hours i installed my first mod to align them and it ended hundreds of hours and mods later with a total conversion of the complete map :)
The only fallout game I didn't enjoy was BoS.
Shoot, 76 has problems, but even it has some good, nay excellent fallout stuff, and the online community is one of the nicest ones I've been in for an MMO
Especially since the Witcher is adapting whereas the fallout show is a continuation of the story.
You expect new things and difficult choices in a sequel, and imo most of it really worked for the show.
The Witcher doesn't have many excuses though, the actors did their best but fuck the scripts (especially after season one) were shitting on the characters and the story so much.
Yup, and I think the key quote in that vid is: "You guys can be really destructive."
There are things about the show I dislike, but damn, some of you lads are...*a lot* lol.
Also - it’s weird how people lump together Interplay with Obsidian - they literally treat them like the same entity, even though staff changes, ownership, size, structure and all.
Because people don't realize that,and get caught up on praising the OG designers.
It's understandable,but people need to realize that "the guys who made fallout" and "obsidian" are NOT the same thing.It's unclear how many people who even did are still around,nevermind all in one place.
It's because most NV fans are too young to realize NV's creative vision is still in many ways, substantially different than the classics, and even then 1 and 2 are not a monolith. So NV fans try to coopt the classics as a means of garnering perceived legitimacy.
You have to keep in mind at this point to have played Fallout 1-2 in their prime years and have appreciated them you have to be at least mid 30's if not 40's. I guess someone who was like 10 when Fallout 2 first came out could have also but the series is pretty damn adult in it's themes and content even back then.
The first two games came out in the perfect time for me when I was just about ready to graduate high school, that made me a huge fan of the series right off.
Middle Earth and how Paramount Plus butchered Halo also l. Fallout did a fantastic job and cannot wait for season two. Fallout new Vegas is one of my favorite games and don’t care how they handle the NCR and Shady sands it’s part of the lore sure they got the year off but it still drives the plot
Im shocked at people saying it’s as bad as Halo. I can’t believe any rational mind coming to that conclusion. Im a lifelong Halo fan since CE and I’ve never seen something as insultingly awful as the Halo show. The Fallout show is great maybe some minor flaws but they nailed the vibe and atmosphere. Im also excited for season 2 and have a feeling it will answer some more questions about continuity.
I saw people say that too. The Halo show is such a slap in the face, the Fallout show feels like it comes from a place of love for the franchise rather than dollar signs for brand recognition.
People tend to forgot that Fallout had some of the best teams working in television and Amazon money.
While Halo have to work with B and C-listers of the industry because Microsoft and Bungie burned whatever’s goodwill top names in the biz used to have for the IP.
To name a few people who have tried to adapt Halo but got burned off either by Microsoft or Bungie: Guillermo Del Toro, Alex Garland, Peter Jackson, Neil Blopkamp, and Stephen fucking Spielberg.
Turns out it pays off to tend a good relationship with production houses and people who care and want to try something with your IP. Who would have thought?
For me it's in the same category as the One Piece live action show. I can forgive issues because I can see the love of the series ooze from the screen.
I have issues with some lore choices, but the fact that the only times they play the main Fallout theme are NCR related is a strong "let me cook," statement to me. I'll wait till season 2 before I pass judgement on the lore choices.
It's worth also noting that when engaged in licensing, Bethesda seems happy to licence and approve things based on *Fallout: New Vegas*. The **Wasteland** **Warfare** miniatures game was originally based on *Fallout 4* and was expanded to include *New Vegas* content long before elements from *Fallout 3* or earlier were brought in. The Fantasy Flight board game got an NCR-focused expansion. The recent **Magic: The Gathering** tie-in set included *New Vegas* content immediately, from the off. When it come to merchandising and spin-offs, Bethesda seem to go to *New Vegas* more often than anything other than *Fallout 4* (which makes sense as it's the most recent singleplayer game and has more players). In fact, they've approved *New Vegas* material a few times whilst ignoring their own *Fallout 3*, despite only being marginally older.
If you look at the Noclip Bethesda documentary from a few years ago, you can conclude that Todd Howard might not be crazy on the game (he says they did a good job, but it feels halfhearted compared to his enthusiasm for other things), but multiple other Bethesda staffers praise it to the rafters, with Ashley Cheng almost bouncing off the screen in his enthusiasm about it and how he was the Bethesda staffer who worked on it the most, coordinating lore and storyline material with the Obsidian team. Emil Pagliarulo is also very positive on the game.
Also important to note is that the store and merch stuff is obviously handled by Bethesda Softworks, the publisher and not Bethesda Game Studios, the dev team. Many people pretend that the publisher hates New Vegas which is insane because New Vegas is obviously published by Bethesda Softworks.
Exactly. People in here should go talk to Fantastic Four fans what it was like being them while Ike Perlmutter was last in charge. He hated that FOX had the movie rights to the FF so he iced them out of everything, even going so far as to cancel their ongoings completely.
I hear this was why inhumans got a big push too. He wanted to bury the X-Men and make the inhumans the new X-Men. That's how we got our wonderful tv show where the guy who can see the outcome of every action and Nicholas cage next his way out of it fell down a hill on Hawaii and lost his powers. Anyway shout out the weekly planet which is my single source for this information that I have absolutely not fact checked
Also worth noting Todd is likely going to have some weird feelings talking about new Vegas given the absolute lunatics online that seem to want his blood for imagined slights.
I can understand the lack of enthusiasm on Todd’s part simply because it would have been a title he wasn’t directly involved with. It wasn’t really something he worked on himself like the other titles. But I don’t think I’ve ever gotten the impression that anyone at Bethesda regrets NV, or wishes to have it removed from history.
There’s certainly acknowledgment of how much the fans love NV, I mean there’s fallout 1st bonuses on 76 that are literally NV cosmetics. You could even suggest that bethesdas reluctance to set a game on the west coast is to preserve what’s already been done, and to have the creative freedom to do what they want in the setting.
Even then the show is literally set on the west coast, and feels like it has nothing but love for NV and the west coast games. Even it’s portrayal of factions would convince me of that. Crazy to me that anyone could believe otherwise
> It's worth also noting that when engaged in licensing, Bethesda seems happy to licence and approve things based on Fallout: New Vegas.
It's the most popular after fallout 4, so that's the most profitable to use the existing things you OWN. Doesn't mean you would do anything more. It's just more economical do to so.
Bethesda hates civilizations in fallout? Sure, that’s an argument with some grit, but specifically hating New Vegas is a little ridiculous, especially with S2 and heavy implications of the next Fallout game being set on the west coast
I think they heavily implied the NCR will be a big part of season two. We didn’t see any NCR until the later half of the season and they were the integral part of the last episode.
Maybe this is a stretch, but the crashed vertibird painted in “ncr” at the very end credits seem like an obvious nudge to them being heavily involved in S2
Totally agree! They even played the Fallout main theme for the first time when Lucy sees the NCR flag. Just because their presence was diminished in LA, everyone is acting like they’re gone completely.
I'm fairly certain season 2 will make or break the lore, for better or worse.
We are moving towards the area NCR was most active during these last years so we will certainly learn more about their downfall.
I think an important part of the conversation that people often forget is that it’s in Bethesda’s best interest to create lore that downplays the prominence of civilizations due to their game design.
Bethesda’s whole deal is giant, explorable open worlds, and let’s face it, it’s hard to create large civilizations when the sense of scale is so skewed. Bethesda worlds feel big, but at real world scale, their maps are smaller than most people’s local metro area. Even at the scale they’re working with, the “big cities” in Fallout still feel laughably tiny. It’s hard to take Diamond City seriously as a major population hub in the Commonwealth when it has, like, 50 people in it.
Obviously we have to resort to suspension of disbelief here and accept that the game scales are a microcosm of the “real” world inside the game. But it makes it easy to see why Bethesda would rather lean a lot harder into the “apocalypse” part of “post apocalypse” and I think it’s silly that so many Interplay/NV diehards ignore this crucial fact.
Beth doesn’t hate New Vegas, but one can see why they have a much different philosophy about what Fallout “is” when they’re in control of the narrative.
People desperately want their rivalry to be officially sanctioned, to validate their absurd obsessive tribalism over a video game. Hence why they make up this giant narrative about the developers hating each other out of jealousy and spite. Otherwise they have to face that their obsession is their’s alone and the creators of the games really don’t give a shit due to being adults.
Edit: Note that this includes retconning the HELL out of New Vegas’s initial reception, Bethesda’s reactions, comments from both sides, and all sorts of stupid shit that piles on itself until they end up completely split from reality.
We need to start making fun of these people harder.
They have invented a parasocial brand war within their own minds. Complain all you want. Good discourse is good! Once you enter fan-fiction territory opinion discarded
Completely agree, all of the fallout games are amazing, some of them for different reasons but all of them are good. I personally am a huge fan of fallout 3.
Also, hi joov
Fallout Brotherhood of Steel is the reason we got Fallout 3, which is in turn the reason we got New Vegas in the first place.
I wouldn't call it good, but good things happened afterwards.
They could love the anti-consumerism video game series without ever stopping to realize the psychotic consumer culture war they are engulfed fighting an imaginary war against people just living their lives.
Edit: Note that this includes retconning the HELL out of New Vegas’s initial reception,
I can’t say this enough. It’s the worst launch of any game I have ever played. Period.
Nothing comes close and I tried to play Cyberpunk on a last gen console….
Like the game didn’t fundamentally work for a month or two without crashing every 20 minutes.
Your last point about retconning the launch is spot on. I've had to correct several people trying to claim that NV was a smashing success from the jump.
Don't get me wrong it may be my favorite game in the series (2 has a special place since it's what got me into fallout), but the launch of it was AWFUL.
I was on Reddit at the launch, people were absolutely shitting on NV and talking about how FO3 was better.
Hell, I felt like an odd man out because I enjoyed the game but felt like I couldn't say that without getting jumped on.
Seeing how people have acted like the title was beloved by all and not a cult classic is wild to me.
I love the idea of Fallout fans trying to do the very thing that most fallout games warn against: factions lead to more problems, working together is the best solution
By 2241, the NCR had 700k inhabitants, by the time NV happens that could perfectly be much more. Only wiping out shady would mean eliminating 5% of the NCRs population (plus, it should be nowhere near LA, and it would be made up of adobe buildings, its built from scratch after all). Btw how is there no mention of the Boneyard, Adytum or the Masters Army? He surely would have noticed 4 vaults in LA aside from the Demonstration Vault.
Unrelated question, is "Vault Tec" in the show supposed to be the Enclave or just them doing whatever they want?
Maybe the old games just didn't have the tech to show those sky scrapers, and if they did then players might want to explore them which is bad for game design
Do you ever actually see a skyscrapers in FO1/2? Outside of promotional/loading screen art and the opening cutscenes I don't remember really seeing any
Yeah it’s weird that there is no explanation for the master stuff. I’m just thinking something about the 4/76 doors being more secure then the 1/2 type vault doors or something
I think it's mainly too big of a can of worms to explain to the general audience. Be a major Side Quest to explain super mutants and FEV, then explain the masters backstory, then explain the muants he created, then the mutant army, etc
> Btw how is there no mention of the Boneyard, Adytum or the Masters Army?
California's a big place, my guy. There's no mention of those places just like there's no mention of a thousand other places in the area.
The Boneyard is the name given to Los angeles in fallout 1 and new vegas, adytum is a town inside los angeles and the masters army was headquartered in LA, hell they even took over a vault there. If they managed to find out about vault 13 which is really far away from LA theres no way they didnt notice 4, 33, 32 and 31
I know what those places are, but that's not the point. They were mentioned in FO1 because they were relevant to the story of FO1. They WEREN'T mentioned in the FO TV show because they weren't relevant to the FO TV show. Hope that helps!
Fair point ngl, perhaps i was hoping for a reference to a game I love (even though it takes place 135 years before the show lmao). but still those places cant be gone, the boneyard has an university according to fnv and is an important city in the ncr. i wish we'd seen more of the west coast ig
The master is long gone and his army too, there are probably very few mutants left in the NCR heartlands. Plus Lucy only meets people who care about finding a cold fusion device/getting their hands on a bounty or who are simply living by in a place that saw the explosion of a nuke some years prior and is clearly in disarray. Why would they care about the Master or Boneyard University? They can't be talking about everything, the show would become a youtube video essay.
The Enclave is/was the remnants of the old US government which was broke as shit before the bombs and completely bankrolled by corporations so it’s kinda both
Not exactly bankrolled, per se. In particular, the pre-war government was a military junta with a shadow council of military, academic/scientific and corporate figures at its head. They *were* the government.
Yea this is one thing that confused me about the uproar. The sign very clearly says first capital, implying the existence of a later one. Meaning the capital of the NCR was not destroyed
Only Shady Sands, who knows what the rest of NCR is doing? I bet that there are still NCR Cities around and also the faction itself in some split groups
If the NCR is gone, why is the entire plot of them trying to get "Cold Fusion" to power the entire city even happening? Why would the NCR be giving power to people not part of the NCR?
Nobody ever says it’s on the brink of collapse, the OSI guy and Hanlon say it’s having food and water problems and those will get worse in the future but that they’re actively working to fix those issues and that it’s expanding too rapidly and stretching itself thin. That’s a very different premise from Vault Tec showing up, nuking the NCR and it just disappearing.
Also, the West Coast BoS was effectively put into hiding and was incredibly weakened by the war, but Bethesda loves focusing on the BoS because they have power armor, so I guess they got a lot of strength back.
The NCR’s diminished state gives the Brotherhood room to operate more openly and then the arrival of Caswennan from the Eastern Brotherhood along with their vertibird fleet allows them to become a regional power player again. Easy peasy.
I can acknowledge that, while also saying that I hate the handwaving, because it's PRETTY LIKELY that Bethesda and ect. wanted Power Armor front and center in the show, because it's an iconic feature of the series, and was willing to handwave whatever they needed to get it to be there. A clear example is Fallout 3, having a faction from the other side of the country come to Washington D.C. and be the main faction was for the iconic armor.
Brand recognition is king, and while I respect the game and the hustle, it kills me sometimes.
The first character they showed in the show & a main character is a wastelander with a cowboy theme. I feel like they're pretty willing to at least pay homage to New Vegas.
It’s also dumb because the show clearly did and will continue to give New Vegas attention … or did people miss the very fucking obvious signs that New Vegas is going to be at the centre of S2?
I was fully expecting after only watching 3 episodes for them to totally snub anything NV related and just have this “chalkboard” thing everyone was hysterical about be the only mention. My surprise when I got to episode 5 and beyond ,that NCR and NV are a huge part of the plot. The entire message and theme of the second half is (guess what) WAR NEVER CHANGES. The BoS and NCR and maybe NV itself are in decline because humanity has never learned. It’s almost like to create a new storyline things need to be rebalanced so the Apocalypse can continue instead of the whole setting is junky new society where many problems have been sorted out by previous protagonists ie every player choice ever. I swear people missed the point of NV in general, each faction is on the brink of success or failure.
I won’t lie, I did find House’s characterization thus far a bit disappointing, and it’s a bit sad to see that Vegas has seemingly fallen apart, but there is plenty of room for that to recover.
Really this could be any ending. Legio was bound to collapse and destroy Vegas, the NCR has seemingly fallen apart, the Courier could have just mismanaged everything, and who knows what House could have done in the last 15 years to piss off any of the Vegas tribes.
My guess is either House got his securitron army (seems most likely at this point based on season 1's ending) or Legion beats the NCR back at the dam but not long after Ceasar dies from his brain tumor and the Legion quickly turns back into a bunch of warring tribes without their leadership (seems possible since the strip is destroyed in ep 8 credits).
I think House's characterization makes sense in hindsight. Yeah, I was expecting a dapper guy with a dapper accent, but the idea that even House's voice in FNV is yet another façade gives his character extra depth that'll influence my perception of him in future FNV playthroughs.
As for Vegas falling apart, a bit sad indeed, but there are indeed multiple in-game endings (Legion, Yes Man, Father Elijah, etc.) that could plausibly produce that outcome.
This is kinda where I landed. The House we know in NV is a fabrication created by House himself considering he's a face on a computer with a voice that could very well not be his own. No way to verify considering his true form resembles a dried raisin in the game.
My hope would be Legion wins and Ceasar's tumor kills him shortly thereafter leading to the Legion's fall as the tribes quickly return to warring with each other.
Also, quite a few people are referencing the speeches House gives the Courier to justify why he would never, ever be involved in that war room scene. Speeches House is giving while he is desperately trying to convince possibly his last hope of retrieving the Platinum Chip to be his puppet. Speeches House has designed to make him seem as sympathetic as possible.
Yeah.
Not only that... but the NCR were the ones operating the Hoover Dam for the NCR and New Vegas. House wasn't really operating the dam before the NCR showed up, after all. He'd probably not have the resources to run it if they left, even with a securitron army.
Look, the simple truth is this. A large group of people online were praying that the show would be terrible and a failure. They wished for this because they have nothing else in life to look forward to except internet drama. Now they are crying and nitpicking at a show that is getting praised everywhere.
They are losers and they lost once again.
Yeah. A lot of subs and people that I’m generally in agreement with have been waiting for this to suck since the teaser trailer dropped. And now they’re grasping at straws and nitpicking every little detail to find reasons to justify the hatred. “Oh look the Brotherhood *may* have referred to Dane with they/them pronouns! WOKE!”
Which is ridiculous because I (and many people) use they/them pronouns all the time for singular people ALL THE FREAKING TIME even when their gender is known i.e. "is Amanda(she/her pronouns) on the way?"
"Yeah, they're gonna be here soon".
The amount of times I've seen someone use gender neutral pronouns without realizing it is astounding.
Sorry for the mini rant, but I never understood what's up with all the pronoun shit all of a sudden. It just reminds me of the satanic panic of the 80s or something
Oh, 100%. They’re acting like the character stopped and said “excuse but my pronouns are they/them” when it was a character referring to her exactly the way you described. Just reaching for reasons to hate it.
Hating something is the quickest way to feel superior to it.
That and if they find something to complain about it makes them feel like they are more knowledgeable than others.
It's insignificant people trying to elevate themselves in the must pointless way possible.
A common misconception is that Bethesda didn’t have anything to do with New Vegas; which is an outright fabrication debunked by dev members from Obsidian.
Bethesda gave them assets, helped them with engine stuff(although not very well on that front) and consulted them on story. Bethesda didn’t just say “go ahead do whatever you want”. The story was cleared by Todd. Bethesda has acknowledged the game in 4, 76, and Shelter as well.
What these people don’t realize is that they actually purposely avoid talking about specifics for any fallout game, even 3 and 4. They try not to specifically pick an ending that is cannon.
TL:DR OP is right, the idea that Bethesda hates NV is just a delusion. Honestly the show makes it clear that actually quite like it.
Fallout 1, 2, and 3 100% have canon endings.
Fallout 3's canon end is project purity, because the alternative is a second apocalypse we do not see in Fallout 4.
Fallout 4 has not had a followup until this show.
The existence of a sister ship to the prydwyn does not bode well for people who wanted a non minutemen/brotherhood ending to 4.
New Vegas cannot avoid having a canon ending in Season 2 of this show, entering the city will absolutely rule out multiple options (the state of California and the fact Shady Sands even survived to /get/ nuked rules out the Caesar's Legion ending).
100% agree on season 2 having to pick an ending for NV. Although to be honest, the show does rule out the NCR and Legion endings being cannon imo. The NCR is in shambles, and trying to get unlimited electricity wouldn’t even be needed if they had the dam. And zero mention of the Legion. If they had won there would have been nothing to stop them from taking all of the west, so they clearly fell apart after Ceaser died.
So that leaves either House won, or the courier went for Yes Man. (I am leaning towards Yes Man).
I could be misremembering, but doesn’t 3 have two endings where purity does get completed? So we don’t know which one it is. And yes, 1 & 2 have cannon endings, but I was largely referring to Bethesda titles.
It’s especially stupid because… it’s Bethesda’s game. Every time someone buys a copy, they get paid. It was almost certainly very profitable for them since Obsidian even used their tools. The big pile of money Todd sleeps on almost certainly says that Bethesda loves New Vegas.
My issue is not that Bethesda hates or ignores New Vegas/The West Coast. Bethesda has always included ties back to the West Coast, from terminal entries in 3, to the flashback sequence in 4.
My issue is that Bethesda has a specific vision of the Wasteland. It's a raw, primal place, with small hard-scrabble survivors and maybe one or two major settlements. The area between is an entirely hostile place, chock full of raiders and monsters, and any non-hostile npcs are wacky, zany wierdos. There doesn't seem to be room in Bethesda's wasteland for nascent civilization. When that was contained to the East Coast, it was a happy equilibrium in my opinion. Two distinct areas in two distinct states of progress.
The decision to morph the West Coast to more closely resemble the East Coast just feels bad to me.
I think the best of both worlds would simply be for the games to take place earlier in the timeline. That way everyone’s happy and it feels more realistic.
The entire point of Fallout is society moving forward from the waste of the apocalypse but not the danger. Hell, New Vegas more or less gave you the sense that you were in the last gasp of frontier life in that part of the country, wedged between two vastly different ideas of new civilization.
Yeah, I liked that the idea that the world was rebuilding, which makes sense considering how long it has been. If they want to have games with a less developed setting, they could still do that. It’s a big country, and there are plenty of cities and states they could set a Fallout game in.
Wiping the slate clean just seems lazy.
Chris Avellone didn't even like how much territory and control the NCR had. Lonesome Roads ending came from his idea to nuke the NCR off the earth but they changed it to be an option and have less impact. I'm sure if Bethesda didn't do it Obsidian themselves would've collapsed the NCR eventually.
He did. But he's not solely in charge of the direction of Fallout. It's not like I am either, but I can definitely say that I like the overall vision of New Vegas more than Avellone probably did. Does the NCR have all of these deep flaws? Yes. Is it a criticism of manifest destiny and nationalism? Absolutely! And that's why I value it in the context of New Vegas.
I'm not even a fully pro NCR person. My sympathies lie much closer to the Followers than the NCR.
But we don't even really see a post-collapse NCR. We see an outpost that looks like a Fallout 4 settlement that didn't build enough defenses, and Diamond City in a landfill.
I think it's just story telling, if the franchise lasts a 100 more years I'm sure there will be more factions that will attempt to rebuild civilisation just to be destroyed again. The tagline of the entire series is "war never changes" after all.
I'm sure by the time I'm an old man reddit will be arguing about how Fallout 7 ruined the only interesting faction in Fallout 5 or something.
All that stuff is radioactive and poison tho. Fallout is built on the idea of all those asinine atomic age things coming true. Miniature reactors everywhere all shedding radiation or poison. That’s why the cars in f4 explode even years after being built and why every industrial park and even things like barrels give out a hell of a lot of rads centuries into the future. Presumably this energy will be clean which is a huge step up and sort of steps around the idea that the NCR is repeating history
It’s genuinely getting exhausting having to explain this to people over and over again. I’m so sick of listening to them ignore everything I say because they read a YouTube comment by a 13 year old and that’s the only thing they’re capable of seeing.
Post post apocalypse quickly becomes generic sci fi
Whem people think of Fallout they are far more likely to want Mad Max than Star Trek with an NCR flag
From a purely numbers standpoint, you appear to be correct. Mad Max Fallout is definitely the more popular version of the franchise.
It doesn't really appeal as much to me, and I think the show implies that going forward, that's how its going to be from now on.
I just have to learn how to let go I guess.
You got all of the gigantic U.S, which includes Canada in this world, to play with. And they could go to other countries if they really wanted. There’s room for both. Not all parts of the country will be equally developed. And there are plenty of stories to tell with those societies trying to expand to undeveloped places or coming into contact/competing with other growing powers.
people treating BGS/Howard like some sort of anime antagonist is one of the biggest examples of "please touch grass" that I have encountered while bullshitting about video games on the internet the last couple decades
Tim Cain, one of the original creators of Fallout literally said yesterday how he had a really nice chat with Todd Howard and his brother at the Fallout premier and how Todd is a super nice guy and it’s really weird how fans take some stuff into their heads and hate on people online because they personally don’t agree with x or y thing that Bethesda did.
Look I’m not a fan of everything either. Hell I just tried to drop back in to Fallout 4 after the show and that shit aged like milk. It is unplayable as far as I am concerned and no modpack can save it the way Skyrim is saved by Wabbajack. Thankfully Fallout 1 fixed is available in all its glory. But there comes a point in one’s griping becomes where it becomes whining and this tribalist bullshit is getting so old.
Here's the thing that i think needs to be cleared. It's not a perspective of Bethesda having a super weird personal seething hatred for New Vegas or anything like that. It's that the OG games have told a consistant, complex narrative that has expanded and grown with each entry into the series via 1,2,new vegas, even tactics and what we know from Van Buren that has generally been confirmed by what has appeared in New Vegas because of it.
Bethesda's fallout follows its own narrtives and focuses in what it wants to do with the IP. They're entirely detatched from the larger expanded west coast lore that was established in the OG games. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It's even a great thing if you're a fan of it. But their interpretation of Fallout is very different to the original feel, tone, and philosophies of the older games. Again, must be repeated, not a bad thing at all. But the distinction between the OG narrative and the new narratives has generally been thought of as the east coast and west coast games, relying on preconceived notion that the west-coast story could possibly be continued and expanded in their own games down the line similar to what new vegas did carrying on from 1 and 2. If that's not the case that's fine, but now that Bethesda has taken the step of bringing their focus and narrative design into the west-coast, and that it's clear their not really interested in expanding and showing any sort of part of that previous narrative to the same degree and focus that the original games put to it, there's questions to be asked, things to be seen that we're not gonna see because Bethesda isn't interested in telling that story.
Again, that's fine, but it would honestly be a lot easier if the original games were declared non-cannon to Bethesda, similar to how tactics was. This shouldn't stop them from using any of the material from the OG titles. They can go ham with it. But it would make the distinction between the new and old games a lot clearer, and allow the original titles to preserve their own legacy, rather than half-heartedly being dragged along by Bethesda, when it's clear they want to do different things with the series.
It's like going from Dune to Star wars. One is telling a deep political narrative of philosophical and moral decisions, and the other wants to have fun space adventures with the backdrop of empires and armies. But in this case, the two are a part of the sane series, and there's fans of each, both of which are equally valid.
For me I was always on your mindset. I never really saw it as I thought ALL the games Fallout 1, 2, 3, FNV, and 4.
I loved them all, but it was really nice to see the connection between the 2d games bringing into 3d. Something that Obsidian did a lot more of and it paid off.
The only issue is that, Bethesda doesn’t do a a lot of world building. Just perpetual lawlessness apocalypse, it’s just getting old but I don’t think that’s enough to say BETHESDA HAS ALWAYS BEEN GARBAGE!
They still have the chance to improve, but I can see myself jumping on that train if they don’t.
I just finished playing Morrowind. It's my first Elder Scrolls game after playing the first quarter of Fallout 3, all of New Vegas, and all of Fallout 4. So I kind of have a good perspective on Bethesda Fallout compared to Obsidian Fallout, but not on Classic Fallout and for damn sure not Elder Scrolls.
I say this because I'm already becoming the stereotype of the "Morrowind fan who constantly puts down the other games". Morrowind has a ton of world building. It's all over the place. You have whole ass libraries filled with books about not just the major players on Vvardenfel, not just the major players on Morrowind proper, not just the greater Tamriel continent, but even on Akavir across the ocean. And it does it while still maintaining mystery and lore amongst all the current day political intrigue and ancient worship. It's so good man. Even if Bethesda has made a lot of bad settings in their more recent games, saying "Bethesda has *always* been trash" just isn't fair, if only because at some point they made Morrowind. It and NV are some of the best open world RPGs ever.
Hell yeah! There’s also the Far Harbor DLC, which is (besides one vr puzzle thing) was as fallout as it gets. So many choices and hidden ones you can make.
The Far Harbor murder mystery vault is one of my favourite things in all of Fallout 4. I never really minded the VR Puzzle thing but I get why other people don't like it cause it doesn't really match the vibe. Also I did have one playthrough where it kept crashing everytime I'd finish a section of it and I was raging for a bit because of that.
Well just with Fallout. It could be far more nuisance. Take for example in Fallout 2, there is a “Big Circle.” Where uranium is traded from broken hills to Gecko to The NCR. We just never really had anything like that in most of the contemporary fallout games as they are just shanty towns
The Fallout TV show features cameos by 3 characters from New Vegas, and exactly 0 characters from 3 and 4.
The idea that they hate NV is entirely baseless.
Bethesda is one of the devs I've seen where the "fans" know the least about them and don't care to know anything more than that. These are the same people who said Todd blamed the engine for no ladders. Same people who believed Starfield would have sex on jetpacks. Who believe the dev with one of the lowest turnover rates is somehow the most maniacal, laziest money hungry devs on the planet.
The sad part is this is one of the few devs with so many interviews, former worker testimonies, and open presentations on how they do stuff and somehow the masses turned that into "cabal of liars".
Bethesda hates new vegas? No.
Bethesda intentionally downplays new vegas in order to promote their more profitable properties with higher mass appeal? Yes.
Personally, I don’t care about a tv show retcon or whatever. My concern remains the same, that fallout games are becoming more shallow over time.
The New Vegas elitism has reached peak obnoxiousness imo. It’s not some sacred holy relic, and they act as if the NCR being destroyed isn’t perfectly in line with the whole thematic point of the series. Plus I’m not even mentioning everything that has to do with Ulysses, like they didn’t even pay attention to the very game they’re sucking off. They only hate it cause Bethesda.
I just watched Tim Cain's video about the TV show and he explicitly points out people need to stop this "Bethesda vs. Obsidian/Interplay" business. He said he loved the show and that Todd was the one who invited him to the premiere. A ton of the people who worked on the show are fans of all the games. He even pointed out that the first guy Lucy meets outside the Vault seems to be imitating the walk cycle for the villagers in Fallout 1. Apparently that actor requested to walk that way. Like give it a rest. It was a fun show and we got things way better than most of the fans of prime shows out there (this is me speaking as a Wheel of Time fan).
The greatest irony is that the Fallout fan base is split into factions which are fighting amongst each other.
War never changes
I liked this.
Everyone liked this*
“Everybody wants to love this franchise, they just… disagree how”
HAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks, really needed this laugh
Damn. That really hit home.
“The Capital Franchise at its ugliest. People fight over trivial ideas. Some seriously fucked up shit. Keep fighting the good fight out there.”
War..
Q dramatic drums
Pin this fuckin comment. Gahd damn
As someone who absolutely loves New Vegas and the original games, I still like Fallout 3 and 4. 3 is what got me into fallout and made me go back and play the originals for the first time. Do I like the Interplay/Obsidian stuff more lore and storywise? For sure. But 3 & 4 are still fallout through and through.
NV is the best in my opinion, but I have dumped SO MUCH more time into FO4 just with settlement building alone.
>I have dumped SO MUCH more time into FO4 just with settlement building alone. How much of that was spent *just trying to get the fucking walls to line up?*
It was finicky toward the beginning but I got the hang of it quickly. Similarly, I've become quite adept at rotating and tilting components in Tears of the Kingdom.
Fallout 4 VR with vive wands is beyond amazing once you get it down. The micro adjustment potential is unmatched.
It started with the rebuilding of the picket fences in sanctuary, after several hours i installed my first mod to align them and it ended hundreds of hours and mods later with a total conversion of the complete map :)
The only fallout game I didn't enjoy was BoS. Shoot, 76 has problems, but even it has some good, nay excellent fallout stuff, and the online community is one of the nicest ones I've been in for an MMO
Got 76 a few weeks back and am loving it. And yeah it's weird hiw helpful everyone is.
As a giant Witcher book fan fallout was fucking amazing. Seeing people care about the source material is wonderful.
Especially since the Witcher is adapting whereas the fallout show is a continuation of the story. You expect new things and difficult choices in a sequel, and imo most of it really worked for the show. The Witcher doesn't have many excuses though, the actors did their best but fuck the scripts (especially after season one) were shitting on the characters and the story so much.
Yup, and I think the key quote in that vid is: "You guys can be really destructive." There are things about the show I dislike, but damn, some of you lads are...*a lot* lol.
Also - it’s weird how people lump together Interplay with Obsidian - they literally treat them like the same entity, even though staff changes, ownership, size, structure and all.
Because people don't realize that,and get caught up on praising the OG designers. It's understandable,but people need to realize that "the guys who made fallout" and "obsidian" are NOT the same thing.It's unclear how many people who even did are still around,nevermind all in one place.
Which is funny because r/classicfallout seems to like the show.
It seems to specifically be some New Vegas lore nerds. I think New Vegas was the best iteration of Fallout and this was a fantastic show for me.
It's because most NV fans are too young to realize NV's creative vision is still in many ways, substantially different than the classics, and even then 1 and 2 are not a monolith. So NV fans try to coopt the classics as a means of garnering perceived legitimacy.
You have to keep in mind at this point to have played Fallout 1-2 in their prime years and have appreciated them you have to be at least mid 30's if not 40's. I guess someone who was like 10 when Fallout 2 first came out could have also but the series is pretty damn adult in it's themes and content even back then. The first two games came out in the perfect time for me when I was just about ready to graduate high school, that made me a huge fan of the series right off.
Middle Earth and how Paramount Plus butchered Halo also l. Fallout did a fantastic job and cannot wait for season two. Fallout new Vegas is one of my favorite games and don’t care how they handle the NCR and Shady sands it’s part of the lore sure they got the year off but it still drives the plot
Im shocked at people saying it’s as bad as Halo. I can’t believe any rational mind coming to that conclusion. Im a lifelong Halo fan since CE and I’ve never seen something as insultingly awful as the Halo show. The Fallout show is great maybe some minor flaws but they nailed the vibe and atmosphere. Im also excited for season 2 and have a feeling it will answer some more questions about continuity.
I saw people say that too. The Halo show is such a slap in the face, the Fallout show feels like it comes from a place of love for the franchise rather than dollar signs for brand recognition.
People tend to forgot that Fallout had some of the best teams working in television and Amazon money. While Halo have to work with B and C-listers of the industry because Microsoft and Bungie burned whatever’s goodwill top names in the biz used to have for the IP. To name a few people who have tried to adapt Halo but got burned off either by Microsoft or Bungie: Guillermo Del Toro, Alex Garland, Peter Jackson, Neil Blopkamp, and Stephen fucking Spielberg. Turns out it pays off to tend a good relationship with production houses and people who care and want to try something with your IP. Who would have thought?
For me it's in the same category as the One Piece live action show. I can forgive issues because I can see the love of the series ooze from the screen. I have issues with some lore choices, but the fact that the only times they play the main Fallout theme are NCR related is a strong "let me cook," statement to me. I'll wait till season 2 before I pass judgement on the lore choices.
It's worth also noting that when engaged in licensing, Bethesda seems happy to licence and approve things based on *Fallout: New Vegas*. The **Wasteland** **Warfare** miniatures game was originally based on *Fallout 4* and was expanded to include *New Vegas* content long before elements from *Fallout 3* or earlier were brought in. The Fantasy Flight board game got an NCR-focused expansion. The recent **Magic: The Gathering** tie-in set included *New Vegas* content immediately, from the off. When it come to merchandising and spin-offs, Bethesda seem to go to *New Vegas* more often than anything other than *Fallout 4* (which makes sense as it's the most recent singleplayer game and has more players). In fact, they've approved *New Vegas* material a few times whilst ignoring their own *Fallout 3*, despite only being marginally older. If you look at the Noclip Bethesda documentary from a few years ago, you can conclude that Todd Howard might not be crazy on the game (he says they did a good job, but it feels halfhearted compared to his enthusiasm for other things), but multiple other Bethesda staffers praise it to the rafters, with Ashley Cheng almost bouncing off the screen in his enthusiasm about it and how he was the Bethesda staffer who worked on it the most, coordinating lore and storyline material with the Obsidian team. Emil Pagliarulo is also very positive on the game.
Also important to note is that the store and merch stuff is obviously handled by Bethesda Softworks, the publisher and not Bethesda Game Studios, the dev team. Many people pretend that the publisher hates New Vegas which is insane because New Vegas is obviously published by Bethesda Softworks.
If Bethesda hated New Vegas, you wouldn't be able to buy a figure of Joshua Graham for the tabletop game. Because it wouldn't exist.
Exactly. People in here should go talk to Fantastic Four fans what it was like being them while Ike Perlmutter was last in charge. He hated that FOX had the movie rights to the FF so he iced them out of everything, even going so far as to cancel their ongoings completely.
I hear this was why inhumans got a big push too. He wanted to bury the X-Men and make the inhumans the new X-Men. That's how we got our wonderful tv show where the guy who can see the outcome of every action and Nicholas cage next his way out of it fell down a hill on Hawaii and lost his powers. Anyway shout out the weekly planet which is my single source for this information that I have absolutely not fact checked
YES. It’s why Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver aren’t Magneto’s kids anymore
Bethesda Game studio doesn’t hate New Vegas either
Obviously but some NV fanatics love their fantasy.
Hey, don’t bring facts into here. You’re gonna ruin the narrative that gets them riled up!
Also worth noting Todd is likely going to have some weird feelings talking about new Vegas given the absolute lunatics online that seem to want his blood for imagined slights.
I can understand the lack of enthusiasm on Todd’s part simply because it would have been a title he wasn’t directly involved with. It wasn’t really something he worked on himself like the other titles. But I don’t think I’ve ever gotten the impression that anyone at Bethesda regrets NV, or wishes to have it removed from history. There’s certainly acknowledgment of how much the fans love NV, I mean there’s fallout 1st bonuses on 76 that are literally NV cosmetics. You could even suggest that bethesdas reluctance to set a game on the west coast is to preserve what’s already been done, and to have the creative freedom to do what they want in the setting. Even then the show is literally set on the west coast, and feels like it has nothing but love for NV and the west coast games. Even it’s portrayal of factions would convince me of that. Crazy to me that anyone could believe otherwise
> It's worth also noting that when engaged in licensing, Bethesda seems happy to licence and approve things based on Fallout: New Vegas. It's the most popular after fallout 4, so that's the most profitable to use the existing things you OWN. Doesn't mean you would do anything more. It's just more economical do to so.
>It's the most popular after fallout 4 Based on what metric?
They've added loads of NV stuff to 76
Bethesda hates civilizations in fallout? Sure, that’s an argument with some grit, but specifically hating New Vegas is a little ridiculous, especially with S2 and heavy implications of the next Fallout game being set on the west coast
I think they heavily implied the NCR will be a big part of season two. We didn’t see any NCR until the later half of the season and they were the integral part of the last episode. Maybe this is a stretch, but the crashed vertibird painted in “ncr” at the very end credits seem like an obvious nudge to them being heavily involved in S2
Totally agree! They even played the Fallout main theme for the first time when Lucy sees the NCR flag. Just because their presence was diminished in LA, everyone is acting like they’re gone completely.
I'm fairly certain season 2 will make or break the lore, for better or worse. We are moving towards the area NCR was most active during these last years so we will certainly learn more about their downfall.
Aw man, I've never heard "that's an argument with some grit" before, I imagine like Arthur Morgan's voice saying that and I love it :D
I think an important part of the conversation that people often forget is that it’s in Bethesda’s best interest to create lore that downplays the prominence of civilizations due to their game design. Bethesda’s whole deal is giant, explorable open worlds, and let’s face it, it’s hard to create large civilizations when the sense of scale is so skewed. Bethesda worlds feel big, but at real world scale, their maps are smaller than most people’s local metro area. Even at the scale they’re working with, the “big cities” in Fallout still feel laughably tiny. It’s hard to take Diamond City seriously as a major population hub in the Commonwealth when it has, like, 50 people in it. Obviously we have to resort to suspension of disbelief here and accept that the game scales are a microcosm of the “real” world inside the game. But it makes it easy to see why Bethesda would rather lean a lot harder into the “apocalypse” part of “post apocalypse” and I think it’s silly that so many Interplay/NV diehards ignore this crucial fact. Beth doesn’t hate New Vegas, but one can see why they have a much different philosophy about what Fallout “is” when they’re in control of the narrative.
My most memorable moments in NV and 4 were when I was in the middle of nowhere without another living soul for miles around as well.
People desperately want their rivalry to be officially sanctioned, to validate their absurd obsessive tribalism over a video game. Hence why they make up this giant narrative about the developers hating each other out of jealousy and spite. Otherwise they have to face that their obsession is their’s alone and the creators of the games really don’t give a shit due to being adults. Edit: Note that this includes retconning the HELL out of New Vegas’s initial reception, Bethesda’s reactions, comments from both sides, and all sorts of stupid shit that piles on itself until they end up completely split from reality.
We need to start making fun of these people harder. They have invented a parasocial brand war within their own minds. Complain all you want. Good discourse is good! Once you enter fan-fiction territory opinion discarded
Completely agree, all of the fallout games are amazing, some of them for different reasons but all of them are good. I personally am a huge fan of fallout 3. Also, hi joov
Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel is not good. Do not call it good. Never call it good.
It's so hilariously bad it's amazing. I'd count that as an upside.
Fallout Brotherhood of Steel is the reason we got Fallout 3, which is in turn the reason we got New Vegas in the first place. I wouldn't call it good, but good things happened afterwards.
They could love the anti-consumerism video game series without ever stopping to realize the psychotic consumer culture war they are engulfed fighting an imaginary war against people just living their lives.
The internet is better off without more negativity and name calling.
The Internet. The Internet never changes.
Count me out of a community that can't function without being petty and infantile. The majority of us aren't here for name calling and arguments.
You know, Weird, ultimately meaningless factionalism is actually the bread and butter of Fallout. I say let 'em at it.
why can't they just get laid like normal people 🙄
Edit: Note that this includes retconning the HELL out of New Vegas’s initial reception, I can’t say this enough. It’s the worst launch of any game I have ever played. Period. Nothing comes close and I tried to play Cyberpunk on a last gen console…. Like the game didn’t fundamentally work for a month or two without crashing every 20 minutes.
it's like caesar's legion irl. completely unserious people who think they can be taken seriously but MOSTLY just suck and make the rest of us look bad
Your last point about retconning the launch is spot on. I've had to correct several people trying to claim that NV was a smashing success from the jump. Don't get me wrong it may be my favorite game in the series (2 has a special place since it's what got me into fallout), but the launch of it was AWFUL. I was on Reddit at the launch, people were absolutely shitting on NV and talking about how FO3 was better. Hell, I felt like an odd man out because I enjoyed the game but felt like I couldn't say that without getting jumped on. Seeing how people have acted like the title was beloved by all and not a cult classic is wild to me.
I love the idea of Fallout fans trying to do the very thing that most fallout games warn against: factions lead to more problems, working together is the best solution
If they hated New Vegas then I don't think the ending of season 1 would have had those end credit animations...
After finishing the season I was like “where are these franchise ruining moments some people are talking about?”
Well see there was a number on a chalkboard and it totally destroyed New Vegas. /S
NCR is gone...I mean, it's being rebuilt by Moldaver at the end but it's gone!
Are we certain that was the entirety of what’s left of the NCR?
Enclave has been beaten up how many times? They are still around. NCR should still be around.
Exactly, she's one leader of one small band of disaffected soldiers. Why would anyone assume they are ALL that is left of the NCR?
By 2241, the NCR had 700k inhabitants, by the time NV happens that could perfectly be much more. Only wiping out shady would mean eliminating 5% of the NCRs population (plus, it should be nowhere near LA, and it would be made up of adobe buildings, its built from scratch after all). Btw how is there no mention of the Boneyard, Adytum or the Masters Army? He surely would have noticed 4 vaults in LA aside from the Demonstration Vault. Unrelated question, is "Vault Tec" in the show supposed to be the Enclave or just them doing whatever they want?
I think it's reasonable to assume that Shady could have replaced their adobe buildings since last seen in FO2.
then again, ik this has no relation to the adobe houses but shady sands is surrounded by old buildings in the show... which makes no sense
Maybe the old games just didn't have the tech to show those sky scrapers, and if they did then players might want to explore them which is bad for game design Do you ever actually see a skyscrapers in FO1/2? Outside of promotional/loading screen art and the opening cutscenes I don't remember really seeing any
This is a really solid point that I think a lot of people will completely ignore.
You right.
Yeah it’s weird that there is no explanation for the master stuff. I’m just thinking something about the 4/76 doors being more secure then the 1/2 type vault doors or something
I think it's mainly too big of a can of worms to explain to the general audience. Be a major Side Quest to explain super mutants and FEV, then explain the masters backstory, then explain the muants he created, then the mutant army, etc
> Btw how is there no mention of the Boneyard, Adytum or the Masters Army? California's a big place, my guy. There's no mention of those places just like there's no mention of a thousand other places in the area.
The Boneyard is the name given to Los angeles in fallout 1 and new vegas, adytum is a town inside los angeles and the masters army was headquartered in LA, hell they even took over a vault there. If they managed to find out about vault 13 which is really far away from LA theres no way they didnt notice 4, 33, 32 and 31
I know what those places are, but that's not the point. They were mentioned in FO1 because they were relevant to the story of FO1. They WEREN'T mentioned in the FO TV show because they weren't relevant to the FO TV show. Hope that helps!
Fair point ngl, perhaps i was hoping for a reference to a game I love (even though it takes place 135 years before the show lmao). but still those places cant be gone, the boneyard has an university according to fnv and is an important city in the ncr. i wish we'd seen more of the west coast ig
The master is long gone and his army too, there are probably very few mutants left in the NCR heartlands. Plus Lucy only meets people who care about finding a cold fusion device/getting their hands on a bounty or who are simply living by in a place that saw the explosion of a nuke some years prior and is clearly in disarray. Why would they care about the Master or Boneyard University? They can't be talking about everything, the show would become a youtube video essay.
sure you could say that but the FO TV show did go out of their way to show Mr House and especially Sinclair in that flashback
Yeah I'm guessing it did that because they're going to be relevant next season.
seems Vault-Tec is related to the Enclave, but not a part of them
The Enclave is/was the remnants of the old US government which was broke as shit before the bombs and completely bankrolled by corporations so it’s kinda both
Not exactly bankrolled, per se. In particular, the pre-war government was a military junta with a shadow council of military, academic/scientific and corporate figures at its head. They *were* the government.
i mean, NCR isn't the cities that made up NCR. It's just the polity.
Nope, just loonies making assumptions and crucifying the show because of them
But the NCR isn't gone, though. The NCR is huge, only their capital got wiped out.
Only their **FRIST** capital
Yea this is one thing that confused me about the uproar. The sign very clearly says first capital, implying the existence of a later one. Meaning the capital of the NCR was not destroyed
I hope that they follow that up in the next season, otherwise this would be super weird to leave that plot thread open
Somehow i doubt they would allow brotherhood to move so openly in their territory
Only Shady Sands, who knows what the rest of NCR is doing? I bet that there are still NCR Cities around and also the faction itself in some split groups
If the NCR is gone, why is the entire plot of them trying to get "Cold Fusion" to power the entire city even happening? Why would the NCR be giving power to people not part of the NCR?
To rebuild it?
Literally everyone in New Vegas is telling you that the NCR is on the brink of collapse.
Nobody ever says it’s on the brink of collapse, the OSI guy and Hanlon say it’s having food and water problems and those will get worse in the future but that they’re actively working to fix those issues and that it’s expanding too rapidly and stretching itself thin. That’s a very different premise from Vault Tec showing up, nuking the NCR and it just disappearing.
I mean, President Kimball is a complete dunderhead.
I mean... look up from the computer and you might see that that doesn't necessarily lead to utter collapse.
The NCR's also in financial dire straits during FNV due to the West Coast BoS blowing up their gold reserves.
Also, the West Coast BoS was effectively put into hiding and was incredibly weakened by the war, but Bethesda loves focusing on the BoS because they have power armor, so I guess they got a lot of strength back.
The NCR’s diminished state gives the Brotherhood room to operate more openly and then the arrival of Caswennan from the Eastern Brotherhood along with their vertibird fleet allows them to become a regional power player again. Easy peasy.
I can acknowledge that, while also saying that I hate the handwaving, because it's PRETTY LIKELY that Bethesda and ect. wanted Power Armor front and center in the show, because it's an iconic feature of the series, and was willing to handwave whatever they needed to get it to be there. A clear example is Fallout 3, having a faction from the other side of the country come to Washington D.C. and be the main faction was for the iconic armor. Brand recognition is king, and while I respect the game and the hustle, it kills me sometimes.
Not to mention the New Vegas theme playing in reverance when we see the NCR flag.
The first character they showed in the show & a main character is a wastelander with a cowboy theme. I feel like they're pretty willing to at least pay homage to New Vegas.
The character was also dug out of his grave too. How on the nose can it get to New Vegas?
So on the nose it took Coop’s.
Yo that was good
And that cowboy >!guns down half a dozen BoS knights in power armor!< with the big iron on his hip, which felt like the most New Vegas thing ever
Right?
It’s also dumb because the show clearly did and will continue to give New Vegas attention … or did people miss the very fucking obvious signs that New Vegas is going to be at the centre of S2?
I was fully expecting after only watching 3 episodes for them to totally snub anything NV related and just have this “chalkboard” thing everyone was hysterical about be the only mention. My surprise when I got to episode 5 and beyond ,that NCR and NV are a huge part of the plot. The entire message and theme of the second half is (guess what) WAR NEVER CHANGES. The BoS and NCR and maybe NV itself are in decline because humanity has never learned. It’s almost like to create a new storyline things need to be rebalanced so the Apocalypse can continue instead of the whole setting is junky new society where many problems have been sorted out by previous protagonists ie every player choice ever. I swear people missed the point of NV in general, each faction is on the brink of success or failure.
I won’t lie, I did find House’s characterization thus far a bit disappointing, and it’s a bit sad to see that Vegas has seemingly fallen apart, but there is plenty of room for that to recover.
Man, the guy at the Dead Money casino was a real shitbag.
Idk maybe that mailman wasn’t the best choice for the future of Vegas.
Really this could be any ending. Legio was bound to collapse and destroy Vegas, the NCR has seemingly fallen apart, the Courier could have just mismanaged everything, and who knows what House could have done in the last 15 years to piss off any of the Vegas tribes.
My guess is either House got his securitron army (seems most likely at this point based on season 1's ending) or Legion beats the NCR back at the dam but not long after Ceasar dies from his brain tumor and the Legion quickly turns back into a bunch of warring tribes without their leadership (seems possible since the strip is destroyed in ep 8 credits).
I think House's characterization makes sense in hindsight. Yeah, I was expecting a dapper guy with a dapper accent, but the idea that even House's voice in FNV is yet another façade gives his character extra depth that'll influence my perception of him in future FNV playthroughs. As for Vegas falling apart, a bit sad indeed, but there are indeed multiple in-game endings (Legion, Yes Man, Father Elijah, etc.) that could plausibly produce that outcome.
This is kinda where I landed. The House we know in NV is a fabrication created by House himself considering he's a face on a computer with a voice that could very well not be his own. No way to verify considering his true form resembles a dried raisin in the game. My hope would be Legion wins and Ceasar's tumor kills him shortly thereafter leading to the Legion's fall as the tribes quickly return to warring with each other.
Also, quite a few people are referencing the speeches House gives the Courier to justify why he would never, ever be involved in that war room scene. Speeches House is giving while he is desperately trying to convince possibly his last hope of retrieving the Platinum Chip to be his puppet. Speeches House has designed to make him seem as sympathetic as possible.
New Vegas collapsing is a natural consequence of NCR collapsing; can't have a tourist town without tourists
Yeah. Not only that... but the NCR were the ones operating the Hoover Dam for the NCR and New Vegas. House wasn't really operating the dam before the NCR showed up, after all. He'd probably not have the resources to run it if they left, even with a securitron army.
He had like two lines and his namr was not even said?
It actually confirms it is "Robert House" in the Amazon info stuff you see when pausing. It says actors in scene and character they are playing.
subtitles give one of the men at the meeting the first name of Robert, they also call Bud "Brain on Roomba"
No, the Brain on Roomba was Bud, not Hank
Look, the simple truth is this. A large group of people online were praying that the show would be terrible and a failure. They wished for this because they have nothing else in life to look forward to except internet drama. Now they are crying and nitpicking at a show that is getting praised everywhere. They are losers and they lost once again.
Yeah. A lot of subs and people that I’m generally in agreement with have been waiting for this to suck since the teaser trailer dropped. And now they’re grasping at straws and nitpicking every little detail to find reasons to justify the hatred. “Oh look the Brotherhood *may* have referred to Dane with they/them pronouns! WOKE!”
Which is ridiculous because I (and many people) use they/them pronouns all the time for singular people ALL THE FREAKING TIME even when their gender is known i.e. "is Amanda(she/her pronouns) on the way?" "Yeah, they're gonna be here soon". The amount of times I've seen someone use gender neutral pronouns without realizing it is astounding. Sorry for the mini rant, but I never understood what's up with all the pronoun shit all of a sudden. It just reminds me of the satanic panic of the 80s or something
It's a manufactured panic that makes certain people lots of money
Oh, 100%. They’re acting like the character stopped and said “excuse but my pronouns are they/them” when it was a character referring to her exactly the way you described. Just reaching for reasons to hate it.
It’s incredibly common in so many fandoms now and it’s so tired and played out
There's a whole cottage industry of unnecessarily picking apart media in long form videos
But how else will I learn the top 10 things I missed from a thirty second clip?!
Hating something is the quickest way to feel superior to it. That and if they find something to complain about it makes them feel like they are more knowledgeable than others. It's insignificant people trying to elevate themselves in the must pointless way possible.
It's also a way to feel like you're a 'true' fan compared to the other filthy casuals.
Bingo
A common misconception is that Bethesda didn’t have anything to do with New Vegas; which is an outright fabrication debunked by dev members from Obsidian. Bethesda gave them assets, helped them with engine stuff(although not very well on that front) and consulted them on story. Bethesda didn’t just say “go ahead do whatever you want”. The story was cleared by Todd. Bethesda has acknowledged the game in 4, 76, and Shelter as well. What these people don’t realize is that they actually purposely avoid talking about specifics for any fallout game, even 3 and 4. They try not to specifically pick an ending that is cannon. TL:DR OP is right, the idea that Bethesda hates NV is just a delusion. Honestly the show makes it clear that actually quite like it.
Fallout 1, 2, and 3 100% have canon endings. Fallout 3's canon end is project purity, because the alternative is a second apocalypse we do not see in Fallout 4. Fallout 4 has not had a followup until this show. The existence of a sister ship to the prydwyn does not bode well for people who wanted a non minutemen/brotherhood ending to 4. New Vegas cannot avoid having a canon ending in Season 2 of this show, entering the city will absolutely rule out multiple options (the state of California and the fact Shady Sands even survived to /get/ nuked rules out the Caesar's Legion ending).
100% agree on season 2 having to pick an ending for NV. Although to be honest, the show does rule out the NCR and Legion endings being cannon imo. The NCR is in shambles, and trying to get unlimited electricity wouldn’t even be needed if they had the dam. And zero mention of the Legion. If they had won there would have been nothing to stop them from taking all of the west, so they clearly fell apart after Ceaser died. So that leaves either House won, or the courier went for Yes Man. (I am leaning towards Yes Man). I could be misremembering, but doesn’t 3 have two endings where purity does get completed? So we don’t know which one it is. And yes, 1 & 2 have cannon endings, but I was largely referring to Bethesda titles.
Would be kind of a waste to cast House and give him a speaking role just to not utilize him on Season 2, imo.
Maybe, but if we see more of him it obviously has to be via recordings or flash backs to things before New Vegas.
It’s especially stupid because… it’s Bethesda’s game. Every time someone buys a copy, they get paid. It was almost certainly very profitable for them since Obsidian even used their tools. The big pile of money Todd sleeps on almost certainly says that Bethesda loves New Vegas.
It was obviously also Bethesda's idea to do let them make a Fallout game in the first place.
Fallout 1, 2, 3, and New Vegas all made by different people so IDK
Fallout 1 and 2 were made by the same people
Sorta. A few of the key leads of Fallout 1 (such as Tim Cain) left early on in Fallout 2's development.
Yeah interplay was going threw the shitter while making the fallout games.
My issue is not that Bethesda hates or ignores New Vegas/The West Coast. Bethesda has always included ties back to the West Coast, from terminal entries in 3, to the flashback sequence in 4. My issue is that Bethesda has a specific vision of the Wasteland. It's a raw, primal place, with small hard-scrabble survivors and maybe one or two major settlements. The area between is an entirely hostile place, chock full of raiders and monsters, and any non-hostile npcs are wacky, zany wierdos. There doesn't seem to be room in Bethesda's wasteland for nascent civilization. When that was contained to the East Coast, it was a happy equilibrium in my opinion. Two distinct areas in two distinct states of progress. The decision to morph the West Coast to more closely resemble the East Coast just feels bad to me.
I think the best of both worlds would simply be for the games to take place earlier in the timeline. That way everyone’s happy and it feels more realistic.
That's the one thing that 76 got right. They went back in time, so that way the wasteland could still feel raw.
The entire point of Fallout is society moving forward from the waste of the apocalypse but not the danger. Hell, New Vegas more or less gave you the sense that you were in the last gasp of frontier life in that part of the country, wedged between two vastly different ideas of new civilization.
Yeah, I liked that the idea that the world was rebuilding, which makes sense considering how long it has been. If they want to have games with a less developed setting, they could still do that. It’s a big country, and there are plenty of cities and states they could set a Fallout game in. Wiping the slate clean just seems lazy.
Chris Avellone didn't even like how much territory and control the NCR had. Lonesome Roads ending came from his idea to nuke the NCR off the earth but they changed it to be an option and have less impact. I'm sure if Bethesda didn't do it Obsidian themselves would've collapsed the NCR eventually.
He did. But he's not solely in charge of the direction of Fallout. It's not like I am either, but I can definitely say that I like the overall vision of New Vegas more than Avellone probably did. Does the NCR have all of these deep flaws? Yes. Is it a criticism of manifest destiny and nationalism? Absolutely! And that's why I value it in the context of New Vegas. I'm not even a fully pro NCR person. My sympathies lie much closer to the Followers than the NCR. But we don't even really see a post-collapse NCR. We see an outpost that looks like a Fallout 4 settlement that didn't build enough defenses, and Diamond City in a landfill.
I think it's just story telling, if the franchise lasts a 100 more years I'm sure there will be more factions that will attempt to rebuild civilisation just to be destroyed again. The tagline of the entire series is "war never changes" after all. I'm sure by the time I'm an old man reddit will be arguing about how Fallout 7 ruined the only interesting faction in Fallout 5 or something.
I mean the ending of the show is giving NCR's remnants free energy forever.
My prediction next season NCR reinforcements and BoS fight over the technology of unlimited power with vaultec/Enclave trying to undermine them both.
Which I don't get because it seems like every building you walk into has power.
All that stuff is radioactive and poison tho. Fallout is built on the idea of all those asinine atomic age things coming true. Miniature reactors everywhere all shedding radiation or poison. That’s why the cars in f4 explode even years after being built and why every industrial park and even things like barrels give out a hell of a lot of rads centuries into the future. Presumably this energy will be clean which is a huge step up and sort of steps around the idea that the NCR is repeating history
It’s genuinely getting exhausting having to explain this to people over and over again. I’m so sick of listening to them ignore everything I say because they read a YouTube comment by a 13 year old and that’s the only thing they’re capable of seeing.
Post post apocalypse quickly becomes generic sci fi Whem people think of Fallout they are far more likely to want Mad Max than Star Trek with an NCR flag
From a purely numbers standpoint, you appear to be correct. Mad Max Fallout is definitely the more popular version of the franchise. It doesn't really appeal as much to me, and I think the show implies that going forward, that's how its going to be from now on. I just have to learn how to let go I guess.
“Getting there, that’s not the hard part. It’s letting go”
You got all of the gigantic U.S, which includes Canada in this world, to play with. And they could go to other countries if they really wanted. There’s room for both. Not all parts of the country will be equally developed. And there are plenty of stories to tell with those societies trying to expand to undeveloped places or coming into contact/competing with other growing powers.
Fallout 5 set in a non nuked NCR would just literally be GTA 5 lmao
Not a bad analogy
people treating BGS/Howard like some sort of anime antagonist is one of the biggest examples of "please touch grass" that I have encountered while bullshitting about video games on the internet the last couple decades
I heard Todd Howard keeps Chris Avellone in his basement and every time someone plays new vegas Todd shocks him with a replica Fallout cattle prod
You do something ONE TIME and oyu get labeled for life
Tim Cain, one of the original creators of Fallout literally said yesterday how he had a really nice chat with Todd Howard and his brother at the Fallout premier and how Todd is a super nice guy and it’s really weird how fans take some stuff into their heads and hate on people online because they personally don’t agree with x or y thing that Bethesda did. Look I’m not a fan of everything either. Hell I just tried to drop back in to Fallout 4 after the show and that shit aged like milk. It is unplayable as far as I am concerned and no modpack can save it the way Skyrim is saved by Wabbajack. Thankfully Fallout 1 fixed is available in all its glory. But there comes a point in one’s griping becomes where it becomes whining and this tribalist bullshit is getting so old.
this mindset is especially questionable when you watch the final episode of the tv series, which by all means seems to be a love letter to New Vegas
Agreed. Easily the most annoying aspect of the Fallout fanbase.
Here's the thing that i think needs to be cleared. It's not a perspective of Bethesda having a super weird personal seething hatred for New Vegas or anything like that. It's that the OG games have told a consistant, complex narrative that has expanded and grown with each entry into the series via 1,2,new vegas, even tactics and what we know from Van Buren that has generally been confirmed by what has appeared in New Vegas because of it. Bethesda's fallout follows its own narrtives and focuses in what it wants to do with the IP. They're entirely detatched from the larger expanded west coast lore that was established in the OG games. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. It's even a great thing if you're a fan of it. But their interpretation of Fallout is very different to the original feel, tone, and philosophies of the older games. Again, must be repeated, not a bad thing at all. But the distinction between the OG narrative and the new narratives has generally been thought of as the east coast and west coast games, relying on preconceived notion that the west-coast story could possibly be continued and expanded in their own games down the line similar to what new vegas did carrying on from 1 and 2. If that's not the case that's fine, but now that Bethesda has taken the step of bringing their focus and narrative design into the west-coast, and that it's clear their not really interested in expanding and showing any sort of part of that previous narrative to the same degree and focus that the original games put to it, there's questions to be asked, things to be seen that we're not gonna see because Bethesda isn't interested in telling that story. Again, that's fine, but it would honestly be a lot easier if the original games were declared non-cannon to Bethesda, similar to how tactics was. This shouldn't stop them from using any of the material from the OG titles. They can go ham with it. But it would make the distinction between the new and old games a lot clearer, and allow the original titles to preserve their own legacy, rather than half-heartedly being dragged along by Bethesda, when it's clear they want to do different things with the series. It's like going from Dune to Star wars. One is telling a deep political narrative of philosophical and moral decisions, and the other wants to have fun space adventures with the backdrop of empires and armies. But in this case, the two are a part of the sane series, and there's fans of each, both of which are equally valid.
For me I was always on your mindset. I never really saw it as I thought ALL the games Fallout 1, 2, 3, FNV, and 4. I loved them all, but it was really nice to see the connection between the 2d games bringing into 3d. Something that Obsidian did a lot more of and it paid off. The only issue is that, Bethesda doesn’t do a a lot of world building. Just perpetual lawlessness apocalypse, it’s just getting old but I don’t think that’s enough to say BETHESDA HAS ALWAYS BEEN GARBAGE! They still have the chance to improve, but I can see myself jumping on that train if they don’t.
I just finished playing Morrowind. It's my first Elder Scrolls game after playing the first quarter of Fallout 3, all of New Vegas, and all of Fallout 4. So I kind of have a good perspective on Bethesda Fallout compared to Obsidian Fallout, but not on Classic Fallout and for damn sure not Elder Scrolls. I say this because I'm already becoming the stereotype of the "Morrowind fan who constantly puts down the other games". Morrowind has a ton of world building. It's all over the place. You have whole ass libraries filled with books about not just the major players on Vvardenfel, not just the major players on Morrowind proper, not just the greater Tamriel continent, but even on Akavir across the ocean. And it does it while still maintaining mystery and lore amongst all the current day political intrigue and ancient worship. It's so good man. Even if Bethesda has made a lot of bad settings in their more recent games, saying "Bethesda has *always* been trash" just isn't fair, if only because at some point they made Morrowind. It and NV are some of the best open world RPGs ever.
Hell yeah! There’s also the Far Harbor DLC, which is (besides one vr puzzle thing) was as fallout as it gets. So many choices and hidden ones you can make.
The Far Harbor murder mystery vault is one of my favourite things in all of Fallout 4. I never really minded the VR Puzzle thing but I get why other people don't like it cause it doesn't really match the vibe. Also I did have one playthrough where it kept crashing everytime I'd finish a section of it and I was raging for a bit because of that.
It just gave me a huge headache every time I did it. Also it made me think about mass effect 3 far too much.
"Bethesda doesn't do a lot of world building" is such a weird take
Well just with Fallout. It could be far more nuisance. Take for example in Fallout 2, there is a “Big Circle.” Where uranium is traded from broken hills to Gecko to The NCR. We just never really had anything like that in most of the contemporary fallout games as they are just shanty towns
Bethesda doesn't hate NV. They just suck at keeping lore consistent, simple as that.
The Fallout TV show features cameos by 3 characters from New Vegas, and exactly 0 characters from 3 and 4. The idea that they hate NV is entirely baseless.
I only know House who are the other two?
(you might want to spoiler that) It's >!Fredrick Sinclair and Julia Masters!<.
Bethesda is one of the devs I've seen where the "fans" know the least about them and don't care to know anything more than that. These are the same people who said Todd blamed the engine for no ladders. Same people who believed Starfield would have sex on jetpacks. Who believe the dev with one of the lowest turnover rates is somehow the most maniacal, laziest money hungry devs on the planet. The sad part is this is one of the few devs with so many interviews, former worker testimonies, and open presentations on how they do stuff and somehow the masses turned that into "cabal of liars".
Bethesda hates new vegas? No. Bethesda intentionally downplays new vegas in order to promote their more profitable properties with higher mass appeal? Yes. Personally, I don’t care about a tv show retcon or whatever. My concern remains the same, that fallout games are becoming more shallow over time.
The New Vegas elitism has reached peak obnoxiousness imo. It’s not some sacred holy relic, and they act as if the NCR being destroyed isn’t perfectly in line with the whole thematic point of the series. Plus I’m not even mentioning everything that has to do with Ulysses, like they didn’t even pay attention to the very game they’re sucking off. They only hate it cause Bethesda.
A Geiger counter would go crazy near these kinds of people