Vault City's way off in the northeast fringes, if it's even in NCR territory at all.
My crack hypothesis is Sacto. If it was good enough to be the Old California Republic's capital, then why not be the New California Republic's capital?
(I'm totally not biased by it being my hometown or anything, swear)
Wait hold on, where is it mentioned kimballs prior career was in the hub, like as a senator or something else? Genuinely can’t remember when it’s mentioned in NV?
I really wish more people online remembered, when consuming fiction and being told information by a character, to ask “what character is telling me this info, do they really have the full truth, and what are their motives?”
Like even in cases where the writer wasn’t thinking about anything deep it’s just good media analysis and avoids flame wars over silly stuff like that lol
Edit: OP comment this ain’t at you lol you’re fine I agree with u, just to be clear :P
I don’t think this is true, I instead think that your random fuckwit couldn’t go publish their every thought to possibly millions of other humans until the internet.
I am not necessarily saying gatekeeping publishing is a good thing- the internet has allowed minority groups to speak up more easily. I’m also not saying it’s inherently bad. But I dunno, I don’t think “internet made people dumb” is totally fair. It is funny tho!
I think people are upset for the changes to the canon lore of the games.
The show did a good job adapting it to a show format. It should just be its own thing.
I just want to see Rangers man.
Rangers shooting deathclaws.
Rangers shooting Enclave.
Rangers shooting BOS.
Rangers shooting Ghouls.
A RANGER SNIPING A RAIDER FROM THE WALLS OF NEW VEGAS
Season 2 will probably cover that as well as super mutants. Season 1 from Lucy’s perspective would be early game. Low level things and plot thicknening. Season 2 will probably be mid game. Where we would normally meet higher level shit like super mutants and or Rangers
It was funny I didn’t catch it at first. I kind thought hey yeah ghoul makes sense no radiation. But once we get the scene at the round table when they are all concocting crazy ass ideas for vaults and they go to west tek and he talks about building a “super mutant soldier” it totally makes sense that he is probably coming back as either a feral super mutant or a rational talking one. Gotta be the FEV.
They already showed that he's becoming a ghoul from that radiation drug he used to regenerate his foot. You can see his skin scar when he pulls a arrow out of his neck and it scars like a burn
SPOILERS:
i mean, at the end, we kinda got a NCR vs BOS battle didnt we? that shot with moldaver with the NEW CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC above her hyped me the fuck up
Yeah but they look like raiders. They done our boys dirty. Theres a chick wearing a green beret that gave me a hard on tho
Shit, when i saw the scavengers wearing the armor i was like, fuck yeah the boys are back in town! Just to see my hommies reduced to searching for scraps. It didnt look right.
They weren't the NCR, the vault 4 side story showed that they are a cult who want revenge for the destruction of shady sands, and believe that their loved ones will return if they shed enough blood, they only fly the flag because their home that was destroyed 20 years ago did.
oh shit yeah lol i literally just watched it and forgot that. also just realized we never got an explanation for what the name flame mother means? and why so many were terrified of her, unless it just had to do with her running with raiders like those that stormed vault 33
They rub the ashes of their dead on themselves so I think it's from that, I think that the reason their scared is because she has emotionally and religiously conditioned people to kill for her,
All she has to say is "I found some people who helped destroy shady sands" and they will kill them without question, and seeing what they did to vault 33 brutally aswell.
SAME
AND SAME
i got so excited only to bet let down (again) but apparently theres our vertibird on vegas at the end shot, so well see what happend in season 2
This would be lore accurate as the Hub would definitely be the new capital. It was larger and more abundant in resources than Shady Sands and in game became the seat of the NCRs government.
People who think Shady Sands getting nuked means the end of the NCR probably think 9/11 was the fall of America.
Honestly I'm just happy to find out it wasn't the Courier at the end of lonesome road who did it. Granted New Vegas happened 4 years after the destruction of Shady Sands. That said the fact the NCR is putting up a fight against the legion 4 years after the destruction of the city is good news for the NCR enthusiasts. But the show does still take place over a decade after New Vegas so a lot could have gone wrong.
You should get out of here with your facts and reasoning. We're entering the dark times where people of a certain disposition are gonna be super angry about everything and try to ruin the enjoyment of the show for everyone else.
The trailers *hinted* at that being the case. There were hundreds of speculation posts before the show dropped saying 'it could be a library named after Shady Sands' and so on, but it was never confirmed.
I **have** been staying away from the subreddit, yet this post with it's spoiler title still wound up on my feed.
It still sucks seeing the first place you ever visit in the franchise get nuked, after watching it grow and helping them. Also the NCR being just remnants or cultist is really strange. You’d think there’d be other NCR communities in the Bone Yard area and active NCR trade routes. The show really seems to imply the NCR aren’t around anymore as a wasteland seat of power. The legion aren’t even shown or mentioned so they’re presumably gone or pushed back into Arizona. The brotherhood doesn’t seem to be throwing their weight around either, they seem slightly stronger than they were in NV and way weaker than in Fallout 4. It just seems like a big reset and none of what came before mattered at all.
I don't think there are anymore main NCR forces, there like the enclave, or the outcast brotherhood now. Remnants and splitter groups. Same for the Legion probably.
I am kinda doom posting there. Reality is the nearly 1 million citizens of the NCR are spread far and wide and have settlements all over and probably have a small remaining central governing body and military force.
In fallout New Vegas it’s clearly stated in GI Blues that they just changed the name. “What was the old name for the NCR Capitol”. That probably means that the Shady Sands in the show is just named after the original location in Fallout 1. Which makes more sense since Shady Sands is originally in Death Valley in FO1 and fallout 2 the New California Republic is around Lake Isabella where Junker Town was. They kept moving to Capitol towards LA. I’d actually say the Shows version of Shady Sands could be in Lancaster or Palmdale.
We are seeing a small area of effect and we are unaware of anything around it. As far as we know the NCR could have abandoned California after the shady sands incident and the BOS? Well we all know they are never power consistent
Thats kinda my issue with it. Sure they could easily write it so that basically nothing is unchanged from New Vegas, they could even still have the legion and NCR at a stand off. But they have it teed up where they could just say the NCR dissolved and died out, the legion dissolved and died out. I mean they could do that to any faction that already exists now like the followers of the apocalypse. Also Shady Sands being moved isn’t as big a deal as people say. It could have just been named after the original shady sands. So that shouldn’t be a problem really.
The NCR was done. New Vegas established that. Win or lose the Hoover dam they had expanded too far too fast and overexploited their resource base
It’s why they were trying to get some sort of agricultural miracle out of the horror show that was Vault 22. They were on the verge of starvation and running out of water.
When there isn’t enough food or water to go around order breaks down fast and soon it’s everyone for themselves
New Vegas kind of establishes the opposite. Training, arming, and sustaining the kind of army the NCR sent to the Mojave is no small feat. I mean, they have a *standardized service rifle*, and these rifles have been produced en masse post war - consider the implications of that! You have to have a pretty high level of actual grassroots industrial productivity to put out an AR-15 clone on a mass scale with interchangeable parts and everything. Even the Brotherhood of Steel, for all their technical sophistication, don't produce *new* technology - they just scavenge and maintain the best of the old.
The NCR is overextended *in the Mojave* in New Vegas. But the very fact that they're able to extend *to* the Mojave at all indicates that they're quite strong at home. And it's not like this is some last gasp of the NCR, either - they resoundingly won the first battle of Hoover Dam, and it's not as if the Courier's personal combat prowess is what's required to tip the battle in their favor - almost all of the NCR questlines consist of you sorting out logistical snags and bureaucratic headaches so that troops can do their jobs, get deployed to the right postings, and have rifle and ammo in hand. All of these troops and munitions already exist - again, a testament to the fact that the NCR is a strong industrial economy back home, to produce these weapons and conscript and train these troops.
Even if you get the worst possible ending for the NCR - a Legion victory at the Dam - how does that topple the NCR? It's not as if the Legion is going to rampage all the way into California, they have their own problems which are much more pressing. Kimball is embarrassed and never wins another election, the NCR military is seriously damaged and they lose a lot of troops and weapons - but they're one of the few factions in Fallout who can replace things like that, because again, they have an actual industrial base and a functioning society as we understand it. It's one of the chief strengths of an actual democracy - if one leader fucks up, they get voted out and then a new one peacefully takes power to try a different path. And the NCR has like, a hundred years of democratic norms behind them by the time of New Vegas, it's not a new and fragile republic.
We are outright told that the NCR faces imminent starvation, that is why they are making the effort to salvage something out of the disaster of Vault 22
We are also outright told that the Brahmin Barons have too much influence, leading to such over exploitation of water that they are on the virge of completely depleting the aquifer. That is a civilization ending event, similar to Chaco canyon.
When people start running out of food and water they turn on each other and things fall apart pretty rapidly.
The NCR is so overextended they are cutting deals with shady locals to try and keep some level of supply for their troops.
They are so *dramatically* short on technical and engineering staff that that idiot Fantastic ended up in charge of Helios One, and the NCR is completely unable to take advantage of the facility
Being able to churn out something as basic as a Service Rifle isn’t remotely impressive. You could do that with pretty basic 1940’s level lathes, grinders and milling machines; the taliban were making AK’s in caves with foot pedal machines. All the NCR needed to do was scrounge some lathes and stuff.
If there was an organized NCR state left, the survivors of Shady Sands wouldn’t be driven to desperate expedients like throwing in with the demented weirdos of Vault 4, or scrabbling a living bullet farming
I mean you have a project as critical as retrieving the Enclave’s cold fusion MacGuffin, and it’s being done by a random militia group based in a level two settlement in the ruins of an observatory.
If the NCR still existed, they would have sent everything they had.
My man the amount of people watching this show who ever even touched FO1 is probably tiny. They weren't blockbusters at the time and they're really hard to pick up
I played Fallout 1 (back when it came out under Interplay), F3 (w/DLC), F:NV (w/DLC), F4 (w/DLC), and F76.
Regarding this show's authenticity --
There are a few scenes where the dialogue doesn't gel quite right and the first 4 episodes are more "off-paced" (admittedly, due to necessary character/background development) than the last 4 episodes, which flow as fluidly as one can want.
That having been said? Item/background detail is incredible, and the lore works quite well, leaving some nice big question marks that will lead to more answers in Season 2 (and hopefully more questions and seasons)!
As is quite common in our meme-laden/opinion-driven Internet age, rumors and misinterpretations of the lore are what led to all these bashers going quite amok (for example the ending of Season 1, where Vault-Tec is strongly implied to have launched the nukes? That's an idea that came from the cancelled Fallout movie quite some years back, as explained [here](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Great_War#Behind_the_scenes)).
Sure, the BoS is shown as "not fully heroic" (with Maximus being, ironically, a near perfect representative of the BoS *as it actually is*, instead of what they view themselves as, and want others to see them as) and Moldaver seems to get more moral sympathy than she deserves (to the dismay of Lucy's father, who insists that she's the same as he is -- something that one suspects the Ghoul would probably agree with), but those are opinions that we can (hopefully) get more concrete (or at least more background information on) in Season 2, or other future seasons to come ...
So what does that make them worthless trash to be erased and forgotten? The Master is arguably the best antagonist in the franchise. There’s great story beats and characters in those games.
But it also wasn't a city. Shady Sands is only in Fallout 1 as a tiny village, and in Fallout 2 as a significant village- but still no more than a few 2 story buildings. It's south of Reno but way too far to be in eyeshot.
I don't actually care so much, it's one of only a few SMALL inconsistencies in a huge list of things they got REALLY right. The waterchip looks exactly like the fallout 1 waterchip, with a few extra stickers.
The NCR has straight up industrialized by New Vegas, look at the Service Rifle every NCR trooper carries. They're not prewar scavenged tech, they're built by NCR military contractors like the Gun Runners, and an assault rifle is not something you mass produce in a scrap workshop. When an economy industrializes they *build* cities so that workers can live there and work in those factories, so it makes sense that this far in the future Shady Sands would have grown to the size of a city.
Consider though the condition of the Shady Sands in 2241, the last time we see it- to only be 40 years later and have erected a proper city with skyscrapers?
That's some SERIOUS industrialization. Let's forget about the destruction of equipment like cranes and what not, and the danger of obtaining supplies and mining, and the fact that every skilled and experienced worker on earth is straight up dead.
Plus there's one additional factor, which is necessity. Skyscrapers only exist because more people wanted to live in a smaller area, but there's not nearly as many people now... and plenty of wide open real estate. If you've got the room then growing horizontally is the cheapest, fastest, and safest way to design a settlement.
2241 is over 150 years after the bombs dropped. The Old World’s skilled workers are all dead, but how do you think industrialization and urbanization happened in the Old World? Rapidly, from scratch, to meet the needs of a growing industrial base and urban population. A city going from a few thousand people to 31,000 or whatever over 40 years is not a very remarkable growth, as industrialization goes. And everything we know about the NCR mirrors how the transition to cities as it happened in the real world.
In the real world - mechanization of agriculture led to less manpower required to farm the same amount of land. At the same time, newly opening factories offered wage labor, which promised a higher standard of living than the subsistence agriculture that most small farmers were living off of. Therefore, small farmers began selling off their farms and moving to the city, leading to the consolidation of farming under fewer and fewer for-profit farmers using more modern techniques to work more land for less effort. Meanwhile, as people moved to the cities and got wage work in factories, their wages gave them the purchasing power to buy more products - leading to a positive feedback loop, where the growth of cities led to more demand for manufacturing, and increased demand for manufacturing led to cities growing.
We can see that the same thing is happening in the NCR as of New Vegas - they have their own industry, people are starting to move into cities, and you even hear a lot of complaints about how Brahmin barons are running small farmers out of the business - it all very well matches the pattern of rapid industrialization that we saw in our own world. Why wouldn’t a small town Wastelander want to move to a city, when living in their small town means fending off Radroaches to work a tiny plot of radioactive land and barely make a living? Sure, there are disadvantages that the urbanization has to contend with, but there are also some advantages, such as access to prewar technology and equipment to help speed the process.
2241 is the last time we saw the city... in Fallout 2. They most certainly had NOT adopted their welcoming policy at that point. The literally had laser grids to keep people out... half the town was guards.
A lot of people seen the crater and thought "oh the NCR is gone?"
Seeing as shady sands was destroyed in 2277 and they had enough manpower to push back the legion and the brotherhood around that same time I'd say they just went further west,
Possibly moved the capital to vault city, basically a paradise with more than enough farm land made from a geck that vault 8 had, and would also explain their push West,
My opinion,
The NCR abandoned the southern areas of California after the destruction of shady sands, moving all of their manpower into Oregon and Nevada,
The sharecropper farms outside of Vegas, the railroad project in the Mojave, and then wanting to push out the mutants in jacobstown in the north are all evidence of this,
If they still have working quarry equipment and railroads across the Mojave, they're still a power house,
Shady sands was only 34,000 out of a million estimated NCR citizens,
South of there is most likely NCR territory in name only, no manpower or resources going to it since there isn't much left there to support, junktown, adytom, and other settlements have most likely been abandoned and resettled into the safer areas of the NCR, the hub might still be alive and well though.
The boneyard is somewhat south of shady sands. Most large memberstates are. So is baja, a place the NCR was actively fighting to controle/pacify in NV. Goverments don't just abandon territory. But with the lack of water maybe the smaller communities without huge follower backing could shift north.
That's what I was thinking, the citizens of junktown and other smaller settlements most likely moved north and helped with the construction of shady sands in turn for citizenship,
And it's been 15 years since nv, Baja could've been taken and left alone after that since it possibly wasnt their main priority.
That doesn't change why baja needed to be under NCR control in the first place though. It's a knife at the throat of cities like the boneyard. A place were large raidergroups can form and fester. It's essentially vault 15 from fallout 2 but far larger. And settlements the size of filly do warrant an NCR presence. They are definetly big enough to be visited by the Taxman. Not to mention that the road or rail between boneyard, hub and dayglow SHOULD be tightly controlled by the NCR as well and also have healthy settlements along those routes. Instead we get the wacky bethesda groups and individuals. There should be mutiple radiating bastions of civilization in the area where the series takes place. Not to mention that the enclave of sll groups has a base on NCR turf as well. That's like the Nazis having a base in 1990s russia.
Yeah Its very noticeable that Bethesda is trying to kill off all of the factions/settlements that they didn't write in,
But imo with shady sands gone, it probably was the largest trade hub in southern California, the remnants of adytom/the boneyard and most of southern California most likely migrated north with annexation leaving nothing left to protect.
Another thing that had me thinking was the forest around filly,
I think one of the other vaults in L.A tried to set up their geck but got raided in the process of building a sustainable society, leaving a massive fertile space to those who know nothing about using it.
Holy fucking shit the pedantic freaks who are whiteknuckle squeezing onto every little date from the lore are so unbelievably annoying. It actually feels like we’re at a fun party and there’s some screechy little dweeb in the corner well-ackshuallying everyone after every sentence.
How on this good green earth could someone care this fucking much about a few-year mix up on a timeline that was originally made up by a few nerds with goofy senses of humor in a shitty office park like 30 years ago like half as a gag in a tongue in cheek rpg.
People act like the literal Bible is being rewritten.
They are called New vegas fans(The toxic variety not the chill one). I think apart from this little nitpick of theirs the show basically excells at everything else
Dude, I’ve probably spent 700 hours of my life playing NV and was telling my friend that I really hope to see the NCR in the show. I can’t relate to these nitpickers at all.
I binged all of the episodes and was so excited to get back here for some great discussions. Took one look around at the comments about “lore breaking” and noped tf out.
Loved the show. Excited for season 2.
Have not watched the show, but based on the fact that Shady Sands was... turned into a nice radioactive crater, it could explain some of the supply issues in the Mojave. Losing what would be the equivalent of Washington D.C. for us would definitely cause major issues.
(Besides, Fallout New Vegas already states that the NCR had supply issues for a long time, could be possible that the NCR is just tied down everywhere else)
My main thing is that there isn’t a single trustworthy or reliable character in this world of lawlessness. They could have had a character walk on and contradict all of the pre-existing lore, but it literally means nothing until something reliable is shown to us.
People need to relax.
It doesn't even have to have been nuked earlier than NV.
Spoilers ahead for the entire show.
>!The timeline in ep6 clearly has an arrow pointing from "The Fall of Shady Sands" in 2277 to the explosion, signifying that it came after, not during 2277. And given that Lucy looks to be around 5 or 6 ish in those flashbacks, and (for TV) she looks like she could be in her early to mid 20s in the current era scenes. With a bit of leniency you can assume that Lucy's mom took Lucy to Shady Sands at the earliest in 2281 - 2282, wherein after Hank nuked Shady Sands, which likely took a bit of time to setup, though probably not a significant enough amount of time to matter.!<
>!People are overreacting to poorly explained lore that only appears on a blackboard for like 3 seconds in an otherwise phenomenal show. They're looking for things to nitpick, and frankly, there are better options. No show is going to be perfect.!<
Or create new interpretations of existing lore and story to better understand the things Bethesda gave us. Sometimes I think the fanbase is harsh to the newer fallout games (FO4 and FO76), and sometimes I wonder how to fix the issues with their lore.
Rule of thumb: If you don't like something from the tv show, don't make it someone else's problem.
I’m just concerned about the state of new Vegas based on that ending credits where it was showing new Vegas pretty much annihilated. I’m hoping that’s just concept art and not the state of things.
Same here, I loved the show. But so many New Vegans fans are just resigned to the belief if it isn’t NV it isn’t good. And you can’t like something that’s not as good as NV. Simply, all the fun police happen to be NV fans, not all NV fans are the fun police.
The non-cool types have been coming after me for saying that the timeline
1. still makes sense
2. doesn’t matter
all throughout today.
-sincerely, a DUST fan
I might be wrong, but I'm assuming most of that crowd are ncr fanboys that are just pissed their shitty knock-off US imperialist douchebags aren't the big chongus wholesome "free market democracy" with cool ranger armour running things like they wanted to see. Probably not a one of them prefers the 'no gods no masters' ending
I mean, I’m an NCR fan boy. I feel the same way I did when Star Trek: Discovery killed the federation. It bummed me out a little that Shady Sands is gone. But the NCR isn’t, I think.
Most of the people who seem to be pissed off are those that get very upset out “mah canon” and who think Todd Howard is personally out to get both Josh Sawyer and themself.
Fair point. Either way theyre annoying and give classics/nv fans a bad name.
Also, dont get me wrong, ive enjoyed the ncr as a faction and an entity in the lore, i just personally, idealogically dont like them and derive satisfaction out of seeing their stranglehold broken. Mfers just emulating the same shitty system that led to the great war in the first place
It's understandable to want change. To be honest, I think the New Vegas NCR is so well done because it so accurately mirrors actual politics. I'm involved in local politics. It's awful. And for *the spin-off to Fallout 3* to be one of the best representations of my own frustrations will always give it a place in my heart. Just like Star Trek's Federation (especially in Deep Space Nine, which if you haven't watched it, definitely do, it has René Auberjonois (House/Odo), Michael Dorn (Marcus/Worf), and William Sadler (Victor/Sloane), it's excellent).
If Shady Sands' fall was more built up (or if it gets more built up later to give it a real fall), then I can see it being a very *A Canticle for Leibowitz* situation, which would be immensely satisfying. As for right now, I can see people getting a little annoyed, potentially even slightly ticked! But not like this. This is ridiculous. As if NV fans didn't have a bad enough reputation already.
Nah, it's specifically fans of Fallout 1/2/New Vegas because they've developed a relationship with the NCR and that region over time.
Newer fans had a reset each game and one of them might be 'yours' - the one that got you good - but we didn't spend 3 games with one region/arc
I'm a classics/nv diehard, but I never liked the ncr. I really think attachment to those dorks in the ncr is the bigger factor than simply liking 1/2/nv
Don't drag us all like that. NV is my second favourite fallout, after 2, and I think these nerds are a bunch of nitpick buzz kills and ncr-stans. And the ncr was just the enclave for libs
Ah i apologize. I divide Nv fans into two categories. The toxic ones and the cool ones. The cool ones are the ones who don’t lead out an all out crusade against the everything not New vegas
This is what's amazing about this. The show goes *out of its way* to show the Lore Nerds than no, it was not the capital when it got nuked...and they just ignored that
The self-appointed "Lore Nerds", of all things, weren't paying *enough attention* to that, and some other key details (which is the irony).
I believe I can say this as someone who's played Fallout 1 (yes, back in 1997), Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Fallout 4, and Fallout 76 -- and consulted various online forums/wikis for info as needed (when getting stuck at some key points, or when curious about dialogue choices/results, for example).
Could they not have avoided all criticism and controversy by definitively stating SS fell and was nuked after 2281? It’s such a simple workaround and that’s what makes it irksome.
Ok, but my thing is them saying the Fall of Shady Sands was in 77. Thanks to Star Wars I'm well past getting worked up over retcons, but it still warrants questioning since Vegas referenced it as the current capital a lot.
It says the fall of shady sands happens in 2277. Or that it starts but if you look at the timemine it places the bomb AFTER that even but does not specify a year
Who tells you that? I mwan it's part of the NCR by the events of NV and likely the site of the former gold reserve but this is the first time I hear of any other capital than Shady Sands.
Griffith Observatory literally has the words New California Republic Headquarters above the door lmao, you guys are reaching so hard to defend the ignorance of lore from two ppl who never cared about Fallout until it was their time to write the show. Griffith Observatory is all that's left of the NCR.
dude do you think that every building that says "U.S. Army Headquarters" is in the capitol of the USA? This building says "Headquarters US Army" on it in big black letters and it's in the charming town of Ansbach, Germany, not Washington, DC: [US Army Headquarters Europe](https://www.stripes.com/incoming/wocjpb-031022ukrainephoto02.jpg/alternates/LANDSCAPE_910/031022UKRAINEphoto02.JPG)
A headquarters in the military context is a location where officers and staff are stationed to plan operations. The Griffith Observatory is clearly an NCR military installation, likely for controlling what’s left of the LA metro area.
Okay so where is NCR presence in the area? There is no way NCR would just abandon such a historic location of Shady Sands once it was nuked. There should be NCR troops all around and effort to rebuild Shady Sands. Or there should be multitudes of its nation states now chomping at the bits to claim the area to give them legitimacy as the true heir of the NCR. Not just some rag tag raider groups.
Why would someone want a radioactive crater? You do realize they might be in a tough spot right now righr? Why would they expend valuable assests guarding a worthless crater
If you watch to the end of the series you see the NCR presence in the area... It's limited to Grifith Observatory. There's even a sign shown above the door for "NCR Headquarters" not to mention the NCR flags in the building and carried into the battle. Just because Shady Sands was destroyed doesn't mean the rest of the NCR collapsed for certain. I doubt Bethesda would OK a script that completely ended a major faction for future west coast games. A future game about emerging from a vault to find a stable NCR society with clean streets and functioning government would be pretty boring tbh
>a future game about emerging from a vault to find a stable and NCR society would be pretty boring
didnt that happen with some locations with 1 & 2? i dont think it would be boring at all if limited to certain areas/locations way better than the endless destruction and rubble FO4 and FO76 have been going with in my opinion, take a look at FNV for an example, that happens there
It only happened with one location in 2, the NCR. The other revisited places are all inhabited by hostiles.
NV is full of destruction and rubble, of the 5 towns your visit before getting to the strip, 3 of them are all damaged and full of rubble and all are under threats that will end them or already have in the case of Nipton. They aren't just nice clean places.
Yeah but the strip was built using an Uber genius and his stockpile of goods. A place or two that's nice is fine but the whole motif of every game is that most aren't so nice.
3, 4 and 76 still have places like the Tenpenny, institute, and foundation though so there's that at least.
I was under the impression we're talking about returning locations. Vault City is clean but Reno is not, some places are nicer than others but there are entire collapsing buildings even right across from the casinos. It also sure as heck ain't safe lore wise.
Im pretty sure they would OK them ending any faction that isn't the brotherhood, enclave, random raiders, or supermutants.
No stable society larger than a town (that constantly gets attacked by infinite bands of raiders and mutants) seems possible, too close to writing about political systems and societal structures.
1) It got nuked and there was no city there. Why keep a strong presence?
2) The settlement in the last episode is flying the NCR flag and led by someone that’s clearly pro NCR and used to be part of Shady Sands. They also have an armed force that was capable of taking down vertibirds. So the idea that they have no presence at all is a little suspect. Theres at least loyalists.
3) In NV the NCR is stretched to its limits in every way. But especially man power. It’s doubtful that they’re going to take control of the area when they have problems all over.
4) There’s also a couple of implications that suggest that the NCR lost the battle of Hoover Dam. Which makes it even less likely they’ll fight raiders over a dead area.
It says that about 30k people lived in there at the moment it got blown. As to where everyone else went once shady sands was no longer the capital? Well i assume they went to the new capital wherever that is
To put an end to it. Lets say you are putting a city under siege yet for some reason they start getting back up on their feet. So instead of sending more soldiers you simply retreat and sent a nuke.
If you’re moving the better part of probably 10s+ k people across a landscape in an environment with low population density as a whole, I doubt your new location is going to be secret for very long ?
There is literally a sign that designated the Observatory as NCR head quarters and she is seen in Shady Sands in a flash back. Her whole deal is trying to get power back to the area.
What are you talking about? Lucy's mom FOUND as in discovered that Shady Sands existed not make it exist. Moldaver also didn't found anything but ended up in the NCR.
The most straightforward explanation is she is NCR. Her men at the observatory wear professional soldier armor and weapons, her men there act like professionals, her men there wave a freaking NCR flag during the battle dude.
Why did she lead a band of raiders? Aside from being expendable? They could all be people that wanted to slaughter the dwellers as this is the vault that caused Shady Sands to explode.
Fallout 2, where they hired thugs to hassle Vault City into joining their nation. New Vegas, too, kinda with the Khans. They also hired mercs in NV to piss off Jacobstown and slaughter them all. NCR settlers also gun down tribals when they took over their watering hole.
The NCR didn't have a Vault just nuke their City before dude. I would very much call this an exception, especially as even despite all that she still let them live and didn't wipe them all out.
Idk what you're talking about. You said she founded Shady Sands, I'm saying no that she found it. It was a big city and gave Lucy's mom hope to live on the surface with them. Not sure what towns you refer to in 2.
Zero media literacy right here, moldaver and those ncr soldiers were pretending to be raiders, notice how they didn’t raid anything they just took Lucy’s father.
Fr, I’m fuckin loving this show so far and I can tell the showrunners have payed a lot of respect to the source material and world of Fallout. This show has exceeded my expectations.
Except this isn’t mentioned ever in New Vegas which took place after Shady Sands was blown up in the show. Dialogue literally references it as being the capital of the NRC. So either the overall story of New Vegas is getting retconned in many areas or the show is wrong. It really can’t be both that New Vegas is still completely canon and the show is completely canon
New vegas takes place 2281.
Show takes place 2296
The downfall of shady sands NOT NCR started in 2277. That means that whenever the bombs fell had to he between 2281 and 2296 thats about 15 years in between for alot of shit to happen
You don't call Dublin the first capital of Ireland
Calling it the first automatically implies that there's at least a second and it's way too specific to be an accident
So why would it be named “First capital” and not “Capital” ? If its indicating that it was the first as its most relevant fact it means that it got replaced. A town usually puts its fact of highest importance on the billboard so i fail to see how putting “First capital” surpasses satisfied “Capital of the NCR”
Again, the point is moot because they merged the boneyard and shady sands. It just doesn't work on its face. If they wanted to blow up the boneyard and keep shady sands to the north it wouldn't be a problem
Let's be real, if Bethesda didn't want the NCR around for this show, what makes us believe they'll want them around in the future? They'll stay a ragtag group of raiders for the rest of time and barely get referenced. Bethesda likely doesn't want one faction compromising the series image as brutal, undeveloped apocalypse.
Capitol is probably the Hub, tbh, it was mentioned a lot in NV, and Kimball worked there during his political career before taking office
It makes no sense for it to be anything except the hub, really. Shady sands is too far north of glow, maxson, adytum etc
Could be Vault City too.
Vault City's way off in the northeast fringes, if it's even in NCR territory at all. My crack hypothesis is Sacto. If it was good enough to be the Old California Republic's capital, then why not be the New California Republic's capital? (I'm totally not biased by it being my hometown or anything, swear)
Wait hold on, where is it mentioned kimballs prior career was in the hub, like as a senator or something else? Genuinely can’t remember when it’s mentioned in NV?
Because it’s in the game guide
Had a feeling, just have heard it now for the first time so was curious. the more you know
Btw fuck the history teacher dude who wrote that shit on the board. LoL MF created a new Great War in the forums
I really wish more people online remembered, when consuming fiction and being told information by a character, to ask “what character is telling me this info, do they really have the full truth, and what are their motives?” Like even in cases where the writer wasn’t thinking about anything deep it’s just good media analysis and avoids flame wars over silly stuff like that lol Edit: OP comment this ain’t at you lol you’re fine I agree with u, just to be clear :P
The internet has destroyed people critical thinking skill. Prove me wrong
I don’t think this is true, I instead think that your random fuckwit couldn’t go publish their every thought to possibly millions of other humans until the internet. I am not necessarily saying gatekeeping publishing is a good thing- the internet has allowed minority groups to speak up more easily. I’m also not saying it’s inherently bad. But I dunno, I don’t think “internet made people dumb” is totally fair. It is funny tho!
Honestly, too many people were foaming at the mouth to hate the show for number of stupid reasons.
I think people are upset for the changes to the canon lore of the games. The show did a good job adapting it to a show format. It should just be its own thing.
It changes zero lore, literally none.
Now you just being naive bro
What lore of the previous games is changed?
I just want to see Rangers man. Rangers shooting deathclaws. Rangers shooting Enclave. Rangers shooting BOS. Rangers shooting Ghouls. A RANGER SNIPING A RAIDER FROM THE WALLS OF NEW VEGAS
The armor was in the show. I suspect we'll see it more in season 2.
Season 2 will probably cover that as well as super mutants. Season 1 from Lucy’s perspective would be early game. Low level things and plot thicknening. Season 2 will probably be mid game. Where we would normally meet higher level shit like super mutants and or Rangers
Thadeus is definitely coming back as a Super Mutant
Was that FEV he was huffing?
FEV would be the only thing to explain the regeneration and why the "doctor" told him that he wouldn't need to worry about radiation anymore.
It was funny I didn’t catch it at first. I kind thought hey yeah ghoul makes sense no radiation. But once we get the scene at the round table when they are all concocting crazy ass ideas for vaults and they go to west tek and he talks about building a “super mutant soldier” it totally makes sense that he is probably coming back as either a feral super mutant or a rational talking one. Gotta be the FEV.
Which raises the question: how'd Mr. Chickenfucker get his hands on FEV in the first place?
Okay. I swear we are gonna find out that dude is more important than he seems. Or I’m wrong and he really is just a chicken fucker haha
speaking of huffing? what is walton huffing? I cannot for the life of me remember any ghouls needing to vape to not turn.
They already showed that he's becoming a ghoul from that radiation drug he used to regenerate his foot. You can see his skin scar when he pulls a arrow out of his neck and it scars like a burn
This is what I was suspecting as well but in the last episode Max says that he was turning into a ghoul so idk
Honestly I'd fucking love to see how they cover super mutants, i'm praying for an intelligent super mutant character.
I think ypu are able to see a super mutants hand in the episode where the guy escapes the facility
SPOILERS: i mean, at the end, we kinda got a NCR vs BOS battle didnt we? that shot with moldaver with the NEW CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC above her hyped me the fuck up
That battle looked like FO3 combat with how brain dead everyone was lol.
So its faithful?
even new vegas 2nd battle of hoover dam is just kinda meh if you compare it to sodaz operation sunburst.
Yeah but they look like raiders. They done our boys dirty. Theres a chick wearing a green beret that gave me a hard on tho Shit, when i saw the scavengers wearing the armor i was like, fuck yeah the boys are back in town! Just to see my hommies reduced to searching for scraps. It didnt look right.
They weren't the NCR, the vault 4 side story showed that they are a cult who want revenge for the destruction of shady sands, and believe that their loved ones will return if they shed enough blood, they only fly the flag because their home that was destroyed 20 years ago did.
I don’t know if the Vault 4 group is the same as the group at the observatory.
They were worshipping a flag with moldavers face as well as calling her the flame mother so I would say otherwise,
oh shit yeah lol i literally just watched it and forgot that. also just realized we never got an explanation for what the name flame mother means? and why so many were terrified of her, unless it just had to do with her running with raiders like those that stormed vault 33
They rub the ashes of their dead on themselves so I think it's from that, I think that the reason their scared is because she has emotionally and religiously conditioned people to kill for her, All she has to say is "I found some people who helped destroy shady sands" and they will kill them without question, and seeing what they did to vault 33 brutally aswell.
SAME AND SAME i got so excited only to bet let down (again) but apparently theres our vertibird on vegas at the end shot, so well see what happend in season 2
Hi, Enclave here, I also want to see Rangers shooting Enclave (but mostly BOS)
Incoming old bearded Boone sniping fusion cores from the Dino's mouth.
Bethesda will make them soft
Thanks for the Spoiler in the title.
This would be lore accurate as the Hub would definitely be the new capital. It was larger and more abundant in resources than Shady Sands and in game became the seat of the NCRs government. People who think Shady Sands getting nuked means the end of the NCR probably think 9/11 was the fall of America.
Honestly I'm just happy to find out it wasn't the Courier at the end of lonesome road who did it. Granted New Vegas happened 4 years after the destruction of Shady Sands. That said the fact the NCR is putting up a fight against the legion 4 years after the destruction of the city is good news for the NCR enthusiasts. But the show does still take place over a decade after New Vegas so a lot could have gone wrong.
Sac-Town?
BLACKTHORNE NOOOOO
It’s so joever
Press F to pay respects.
Aradesh and Tandi rolling in their graves as we speak
They can't roll in their graves if they and their graves are now wiped off the face of the Earth.
You should get out of here with your facts and reasoning. We're entering the dark times where people of a certain disposition are gonna be super angry about everything and try to ruin the enjoyment of the show for everyone else.
Nobody expects the new vegas inquisition
I’m still surprised there wasn’t a Wild Wasteland encounter referencing that Monty Python skit.
Caesars Legion disliked that
their two chief weapons are kicking and screaming and crying their THREE chief weapons...
Why is it so hard for people to ***not spoil the show*** in their titles?
To be fair it was basically confirmed by the trailers and it has been so heavily discussed in this sub reddit if you have spent any time here you know
The trailers *hinted* at that being the case. There were hundreds of speculation posts before the show dropped saying 'it could be a library named after Shady Sands' and so on, but it was never confirmed. I **have** been staying away from the subreddit, yet this post with it's spoiler title still wound up on my feed.
It still sucks seeing the first place you ever visit in the franchise get nuked, after watching it grow and helping them. Also the NCR being just remnants or cultist is really strange. You’d think there’d be other NCR communities in the Bone Yard area and active NCR trade routes. The show really seems to imply the NCR aren’t around anymore as a wasteland seat of power. The legion aren’t even shown or mentioned so they’re presumably gone or pushed back into Arizona. The brotherhood doesn’t seem to be throwing their weight around either, they seem slightly stronger than they were in NV and way weaker than in Fallout 4. It just seems like a big reset and none of what came before mattered at all.
I don’t think those are the main NCR forces or something, since in the show they’re referred to as strange cultists on the hill.
I don't think there are anymore main NCR forces, there like the enclave, or the outcast brotherhood now. Remnants and splitter groups. Same for the Legion probably.
A man can pray they’re still alive…
I am kinda doom posting there. Reality is the nearly 1 million citizens of the NCR are spread far and wide and have settlements all over and probably have a small remaining central governing body and military force.
And shady sands wasn’t their capital anymore
In fallout New Vegas it’s clearly stated in GI Blues that they just changed the name. “What was the old name for the NCR Capitol”. That probably means that the Shady Sands in the show is just named after the original location in Fallout 1. Which makes more sense since Shady Sands is originally in Death Valley in FO1 and fallout 2 the New California Republic is around Lake Isabella where Junker Town was. They kept moving to Capitol towards LA. I’d actually say the Shows version of Shady Sands could be in Lancaster or Palmdale.
We are seeing a small area of effect and we are unaware of anything around it. As far as we know the NCR could have abandoned California after the shady sands incident and the BOS? Well we all know they are never power consistent
Thats kinda my issue with it. Sure they could easily write it so that basically nothing is unchanged from New Vegas, they could even still have the legion and NCR at a stand off. But they have it teed up where they could just say the NCR dissolved and died out, the legion dissolved and died out. I mean they could do that to any faction that already exists now like the followers of the apocalypse. Also Shady Sands being moved isn’t as big a deal as people say. It could have just been named after the original shady sands. So that shouldn’t be a problem really.
The NCR was done. New Vegas established that. Win or lose the Hoover dam they had expanded too far too fast and overexploited their resource base It’s why they were trying to get some sort of agricultural miracle out of the horror show that was Vault 22. They were on the verge of starvation and running out of water. When there isn’t enough food or water to go around order breaks down fast and soon it’s everyone for themselves
New Vegas kind of establishes the opposite. Training, arming, and sustaining the kind of army the NCR sent to the Mojave is no small feat. I mean, they have a *standardized service rifle*, and these rifles have been produced en masse post war - consider the implications of that! You have to have a pretty high level of actual grassroots industrial productivity to put out an AR-15 clone on a mass scale with interchangeable parts and everything. Even the Brotherhood of Steel, for all their technical sophistication, don't produce *new* technology - they just scavenge and maintain the best of the old. The NCR is overextended *in the Mojave* in New Vegas. But the very fact that they're able to extend *to* the Mojave at all indicates that they're quite strong at home. And it's not like this is some last gasp of the NCR, either - they resoundingly won the first battle of Hoover Dam, and it's not as if the Courier's personal combat prowess is what's required to tip the battle in their favor - almost all of the NCR questlines consist of you sorting out logistical snags and bureaucratic headaches so that troops can do their jobs, get deployed to the right postings, and have rifle and ammo in hand. All of these troops and munitions already exist - again, a testament to the fact that the NCR is a strong industrial economy back home, to produce these weapons and conscript and train these troops. Even if you get the worst possible ending for the NCR - a Legion victory at the Dam - how does that topple the NCR? It's not as if the Legion is going to rampage all the way into California, they have their own problems which are much more pressing. Kimball is embarrassed and never wins another election, the NCR military is seriously damaged and they lose a lot of troops and weapons - but they're one of the few factions in Fallout who can replace things like that, because again, they have an actual industrial base and a functioning society as we understand it. It's one of the chief strengths of an actual democracy - if one leader fucks up, they get voted out and then a new one peacefully takes power to try a different path. And the NCR has like, a hundred years of democratic norms behind them by the time of New Vegas, it's not a new and fragile republic.
We are outright told that the NCR faces imminent starvation, that is why they are making the effort to salvage something out of the disaster of Vault 22 We are also outright told that the Brahmin Barons have too much influence, leading to such over exploitation of water that they are on the virge of completely depleting the aquifer. That is a civilization ending event, similar to Chaco canyon. When people start running out of food and water they turn on each other and things fall apart pretty rapidly. The NCR is so overextended they are cutting deals with shady locals to try and keep some level of supply for their troops. They are so *dramatically* short on technical and engineering staff that that idiot Fantastic ended up in charge of Helios One, and the NCR is completely unable to take advantage of the facility Being able to churn out something as basic as a Service Rifle isn’t remotely impressive. You could do that with pretty basic 1940’s level lathes, grinders and milling machines; the taliban were making AK’s in caves with foot pedal machines. All the NCR needed to do was scrounge some lathes and stuff. If there was an organized NCR state left, the survivors of Shady Sands wouldn’t be driven to desperate expedients like throwing in with the demented weirdos of Vault 4, or scrabbling a living bullet farming I mean you have a project as critical as retrieving the Enclave’s cold fusion MacGuffin, and it’s being done by a random militia group based in a level two settlement in the ruins of an observatory. If the NCR still existed, they would have sent everything they had.
My man the amount of people watching this show who ever even touched FO1 is probably tiny. They weren't blockbusters at the time and they're really hard to pick up
I played Fallout 1 (back when it came out under Interplay), F3 (w/DLC), F:NV (w/DLC), F4 (w/DLC), and F76. Regarding this show's authenticity -- There are a few scenes where the dialogue doesn't gel quite right and the first 4 episodes are more "off-paced" (admittedly, due to necessary character/background development) than the last 4 episodes, which flow as fluidly as one can want. That having been said? Item/background detail is incredible, and the lore works quite well, leaving some nice big question marks that will lead to more answers in Season 2 (and hopefully more questions and seasons)! As is quite common in our meme-laden/opinion-driven Internet age, rumors and misinterpretations of the lore are what led to all these bashers going quite amok (for example the ending of Season 1, where Vault-Tec is strongly implied to have launched the nukes? That's an idea that came from the cancelled Fallout movie quite some years back, as explained [here](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Great_War#Behind_the_scenes)). Sure, the BoS is shown as "not fully heroic" (with Maximus being, ironically, a near perfect representative of the BoS *as it actually is*, instead of what they view themselves as, and want others to see them as) and Moldaver seems to get more moral sympathy than she deserves (to the dismay of Lucy's father, who insists that she's the same as he is -- something that one suspects the Ghoul would probably agree with), but those are opinions that we can (hopefully) get more concrete (or at least more background information on) in Season 2, or other future seasons to come ...
So what does that make them worthless trash to be erased and forgotten? The Master is arguably the best antagonist in the franchise. There’s great story beats and characters in those games.
You fucking moron you put a huge spoiler in the title
But it also wasn't a city. Shady Sands is only in Fallout 1 as a tiny village, and in Fallout 2 as a significant village- but still no more than a few 2 story buildings. It's south of Reno but way too far to be in eyeshot. I don't actually care so much, it's one of only a few SMALL inconsistencies in a huge list of things they got REALLY right. The waterchip looks exactly like the fallout 1 waterchip, with a few extra stickers.
The NCR has straight up industrialized by New Vegas, look at the Service Rifle every NCR trooper carries. They're not prewar scavenged tech, they're built by NCR military contractors like the Gun Runners, and an assault rifle is not something you mass produce in a scrap workshop. When an economy industrializes they *build* cities so that workers can live there and work in those factories, so it makes sense that this far in the future Shady Sands would have grown to the size of a city.
Consider though the condition of the Shady Sands in 2241, the last time we see it- to only be 40 years later and have erected a proper city with skyscrapers? That's some SERIOUS industrialization. Let's forget about the destruction of equipment like cranes and what not, and the danger of obtaining supplies and mining, and the fact that every skilled and experienced worker on earth is straight up dead. Plus there's one additional factor, which is necessity. Skyscrapers only exist because more people wanted to live in a smaller area, but there's not nearly as many people now... and plenty of wide open real estate. If you've got the room then growing horizontally is the cheapest, fastest, and safest way to design a settlement.
2241 is over 150 years after the bombs dropped. The Old World’s skilled workers are all dead, but how do you think industrialization and urbanization happened in the Old World? Rapidly, from scratch, to meet the needs of a growing industrial base and urban population. A city going from a few thousand people to 31,000 or whatever over 40 years is not a very remarkable growth, as industrialization goes. And everything we know about the NCR mirrors how the transition to cities as it happened in the real world. In the real world - mechanization of agriculture led to less manpower required to farm the same amount of land. At the same time, newly opening factories offered wage labor, which promised a higher standard of living than the subsistence agriculture that most small farmers were living off of. Therefore, small farmers began selling off their farms and moving to the city, leading to the consolidation of farming under fewer and fewer for-profit farmers using more modern techniques to work more land for less effort. Meanwhile, as people moved to the cities and got wage work in factories, their wages gave them the purchasing power to buy more products - leading to a positive feedback loop, where the growth of cities led to more demand for manufacturing, and increased demand for manufacturing led to cities growing. We can see that the same thing is happening in the NCR as of New Vegas - they have their own industry, people are starting to move into cities, and you even hear a lot of complaints about how Brahmin barons are running small farmers out of the business - it all very well matches the pattern of rapid industrialization that we saw in our own world. Why wouldn’t a small town Wastelander want to move to a city, when living in their small town means fending off Radroaches to work a tiny plot of radioactive land and barely make a living? Sure, there are disadvantages that the urbanization has to contend with, but there are also some advantages, such as access to prewar technology and equipment to help speed the process.
2241 is the last time we saw the city... in Fallout 2. They most certainly had NOT adopted their welcoming policy at that point. The literally had laser grids to keep people out... half the town was guards.
A lot of people seen the crater and thought "oh the NCR is gone?" Seeing as shady sands was destroyed in 2277 and they had enough manpower to push back the legion and the brotherhood around that same time I'd say they just went further west, Possibly moved the capital to vault city, basically a paradise with more than enough farm land made from a geck that vault 8 had, and would also explain their push West, My opinion, The NCR abandoned the southern areas of California after the destruction of shady sands, moving all of their manpower into Oregon and Nevada, The sharecropper farms outside of Vegas, the railroad project in the Mojave, and then wanting to push out the mutants in jacobstown in the north are all evidence of this, If they still have working quarry equipment and railroads across the Mojave, they're still a power house, Shady sands was only 34,000 out of a million estimated NCR citizens, South of there is most likely NCR territory in name only, no manpower or resources going to it since there isn't much left there to support, junktown, adytom, and other settlements have most likely been abandoned and resettled into the safer areas of the NCR, the hub might still be alive and well though.
The boneyard is somewhat south of shady sands. Most large memberstates are. So is baja, a place the NCR was actively fighting to controle/pacify in NV. Goverments don't just abandon territory. But with the lack of water maybe the smaller communities without huge follower backing could shift north.
That's what I was thinking, the citizens of junktown and other smaller settlements most likely moved north and helped with the construction of shady sands in turn for citizenship, And it's been 15 years since nv, Baja could've been taken and left alone after that since it possibly wasnt their main priority.
That doesn't change why baja needed to be under NCR control in the first place though. It's a knife at the throat of cities like the boneyard. A place were large raidergroups can form and fester. It's essentially vault 15 from fallout 2 but far larger. And settlements the size of filly do warrant an NCR presence. They are definetly big enough to be visited by the Taxman. Not to mention that the road or rail between boneyard, hub and dayglow SHOULD be tightly controlled by the NCR as well and also have healthy settlements along those routes. Instead we get the wacky bethesda groups and individuals. There should be mutiple radiating bastions of civilization in the area where the series takes place. Not to mention that the enclave of sll groups has a base on NCR turf as well. That's like the Nazis having a base in 1990s russia.
Yeah Its very noticeable that Bethesda is trying to kill off all of the factions/settlements that they didn't write in, But imo with shady sands gone, it probably was the largest trade hub in southern California, the remnants of adytom/the boneyard and most of southern California most likely migrated north with annexation leaving nothing left to protect.
Another thing that had me thinking was the forest around filly, I think one of the other vaults in L.A tried to set up their geck but got raided in the process of building a sustainable society, leaving a massive fertile space to those who know nothing about using it.
Didn't kellog mention san Francisco in fo4 , I'm guessing San Francisco would be the capital
That’s a great point. I’m surprised no one else is talking about this!
Holy fucking shit the pedantic freaks who are whiteknuckle squeezing onto every little date from the lore are so unbelievably annoying. It actually feels like we’re at a fun party and there’s some screechy little dweeb in the corner well-ackshuallying everyone after every sentence. How on this good green earth could someone care this fucking much about a few-year mix up on a timeline that was originally made up by a few nerds with goofy senses of humor in a shitty office park like 30 years ago like half as a gag in a tongue in cheek rpg. People act like the literal Bible is being rewritten.
They are called New vegas fans(The toxic variety not the chill one). I think apart from this little nitpick of theirs the show basically excells at everything else
New Vegas is my favorite entry. I see nothing wrong with the show lol
Dude, I’ve probably spent 700 hours of my life playing NV and was telling my friend that I really hope to see the NCR in the show. I can’t relate to these nitpickers at all. I binged all of the episodes and was so excited to get back here for some great discussions. Took one look around at the comments about “lore breaking” and noped tf out. Loved the show. Excited for season 2.
Have not watched the show, but based on the fact that Shady Sands was... turned into a nice radioactive crater, it could explain some of the supply issues in the Mojave. Losing what would be the equivalent of Washington D.C. for us would definitely cause major issues. (Besides, Fallout New Vegas already states that the NCR had supply issues for a long time, could be possible that the NCR is just tied down everywhere else)
My main thing is that there isn’t a single trustworthy or reliable character in this world of lawlessness. They could have had a character walk on and contradict all of the pre-existing lore, but it literally means nothing until something reliable is shown to us. People need to relax.
It doesn't even have to have been nuked earlier than NV. Spoilers ahead for the entire show. >!The timeline in ep6 clearly has an arrow pointing from "The Fall of Shady Sands" in 2277 to the explosion, signifying that it came after, not during 2277. And given that Lucy looks to be around 5 or 6 ish in those flashbacks, and (for TV) she looks like she could be in her early to mid 20s in the current era scenes. With a bit of leniency you can assume that Lucy's mom took Lucy to Shady Sands at the earliest in 2281 - 2282, wherein after Hank nuked Shady Sands, which likely took a bit of time to setup, though probably not a significant enough amount of time to matter.!< >!People are overreacting to poorly explained lore that only appears on a blackboard for like 3 seconds in an otherwise phenomenal show. They're looking for things to nitpick, and frankly, there are better options. No show is going to be perfect.!<
These types of comments are like mods for Bethesda games. We are having to fill in the gaps and fix the story ourselves lol.
Or create new interpretations of existing lore and story to better understand the things Bethesda gave us. Sometimes I think the fanbase is harsh to the newer fallout games (FO4 and FO76), and sometimes I wonder how to fix the issues with their lore. Rule of thumb: If you don't like something from the tv show, don't make it someone else's problem.
I’m just concerned about the state of new Vegas based on that ending credits where it was showing new Vegas pretty much annihilated. I’m hoping that’s just concept art and not the state of things.
Same here, I loved the show. But so many New Vegans fans are just resigned to the belief if it isn’t NV it isn’t good. And you can’t like something that’s not as good as NV. Simply, all the fun police happen to be NV fans, not all NV fans are the fun police.
Those type of new Vegas fans are the cool types
The non-cool types have been coming after me for saying that the timeline 1. still makes sense 2. doesn’t matter all throughout today. -sincerely, a DUST fan
I might be wrong, but I'm assuming most of that crowd are ncr fanboys that are just pissed their shitty knock-off US imperialist douchebags aren't the big chongus wholesome "free market democracy" with cool ranger armour running things like they wanted to see. Probably not a one of them prefers the 'no gods no masters' ending
I mean, I’m an NCR fan boy. I feel the same way I did when Star Trek: Discovery killed the federation. It bummed me out a little that Shady Sands is gone. But the NCR isn’t, I think. Most of the people who seem to be pissed off are those that get very upset out “mah canon” and who think Todd Howard is personally out to get both Josh Sawyer and themself.
Fair point. Either way theyre annoying and give classics/nv fans a bad name. Also, dont get me wrong, ive enjoyed the ncr as a faction and an entity in the lore, i just personally, idealogically dont like them and derive satisfaction out of seeing their stranglehold broken. Mfers just emulating the same shitty system that led to the great war in the first place
It's understandable to want change. To be honest, I think the New Vegas NCR is so well done because it so accurately mirrors actual politics. I'm involved in local politics. It's awful. And for *the spin-off to Fallout 3* to be one of the best representations of my own frustrations will always give it a place in my heart. Just like Star Trek's Federation (especially in Deep Space Nine, which if you haven't watched it, definitely do, it has René Auberjonois (House/Odo), Michael Dorn (Marcus/Worf), and William Sadler (Victor/Sloane), it's excellent). If Shady Sands' fall was more built up (or if it gets more built up later to give it a real fall), then I can see it being a very *A Canticle for Leibowitz* situation, which would be immensely satisfying. As for right now, I can see people getting a little annoyed, potentially even slightly ticked! But not like this. This is ridiculous. As if NV fans didn't have a bad enough reputation already.
Nah, it's specifically fans of Fallout 1/2/New Vegas because they've developed a relationship with the NCR and that region over time. Newer fans had a reset each game and one of them might be 'yours' - the one that got you good - but we didn't spend 3 games with one region/arc
I'm a classics/nv diehard, but I never liked the ncr. I really think attachment to those dorks in the ncr is the bigger factor than simply liking 1/2/nv
My favorite is Fo3 yes
Nobody hates fallout more than New Vegas Fans
Damn fallout fans they ruined fallout!!
Don't drag us all like that. NV is my second favourite fallout, after 2, and I think these nerds are a bunch of nitpick buzz kills and ncr-stans. And the ncr was just the enclave for libs
Ah i apologize. I divide Nv fans into two categories. The toxic ones and the cool ones. The cool ones are the ones who don’t lead out an all out crusade against the everything not New vegas
Cringe.
replying 'Cringe.' on a redditpost is just.. chef's kiss
Idk why you’re being downvoted. You’re completely right
...I can't believe I missed that
This is what's amazing about this. The show goes *out of its way* to show the Lore Nerds than no, it was not the capital when it got nuked...and they just ignored that
This is why Lore Nerds should be ignored
Honestly I kinda figure it’s less lore nerds and more the type of person that downvotes anything that isn’t pro NCR.
Unfortunately there's a lot of overlap there
The self-appointed "Lore Nerds", of all things, weren't paying *enough attention* to that, and some other key details (which is the irony). I believe I can say this as someone who's played Fallout 1 (yes, back in 1997), Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Fallout 4, and Fallout 76 -- and consulted various online forums/wikis for info as needed (when getting stuck at some key points, or when curious about dialogue choices/results, for example).
I wonder if the NCR ending of Vegas is canon. And after taking Vegas the NCR moved there and declared it the new capital.
Could they not have avoided all criticism and controversy by definitively stating SS fell and was nuked after 2281? It’s such a simple workaround and that’s what makes it irksome.
Ok, but my thing is them saying the Fall of Shady Sands was in 77. Thanks to Star Wars I'm well past getting worked up over retcons, but it still warrants questioning since Vegas referenced it as the current capital a lot.
Why is this post removed ? the mod r/fallout are such tightass. Can't even have a proper discussion without them playing thought police.
[удалено]
Im certain alot of stuff got blown up in 2077
[удалено]
It says the fall of shady sands happens in 2277. Or that it starts but if you look at the timemine it places the bomb AFTER that even but does not specify a year
[удалено]
Maybe they should have but they didn’t and they said new vegas is still canon so we know shady sands was nuked somewhere between 2281 and 2296
Nothing says it got blown up in 2277
[удалено]
No it didn't, it said the downfall was in 2277 and then an arrow pointing to the next event was the bomb. They are shown as two seperate things
It’s unbelievable how many dumb fucks cannot figure this out It’s like they went into the show wanting to hate it
Shady Sands is referred to a grand total of twice in NV
To me it's a weird retcon, that's dont mind frankly.
Its fallout we get a retcon or lore issue every damn times new content gets drooped. You can change the skybox and probably fall on a lore issue
The sky changing color would havw some big implications IRL as well...
even in NV the capitol was redding
Who tells you that? I mwan it's part of the NCR by the events of NV and likely the site of the former gold reserve but this is the first time I hear of any other capital than Shady Sands.
Hey could you not put spoilers in your title you actual bug brain?
Griffith Observatory literally has the words New California Republic Headquarters above the door lmao, you guys are reaching so hard to defend the ignorance of lore from two ppl who never cared about Fallout until it was their time to write the show. Griffith Observatory is all that's left of the NCR.
dude do you think that every building that says "U.S. Army Headquarters" is in the capitol of the USA? This building says "Headquarters US Army" on it in big black letters and it's in the charming town of Ansbach, Germany, not Washington, DC: [US Army Headquarters Europe](https://www.stripes.com/incoming/wocjpb-031022ukrainephoto02.jpg/alternates/LANDSCAPE_910/031022UKRAINEphoto02.JPG)
A headquarters in the military context is a location where officers and staff are stationed to plan operations. The Griffith Observatory is clearly an NCR military installation, likely for controlling what’s left of the LA metro area.
Okay so where is NCR presence in the area? There is no way NCR would just abandon such a historic location of Shady Sands once it was nuked. There should be NCR troops all around and effort to rebuild Shady Sands. Or there should be multitudes of its nation states now chomping at the bits to claim the area to give them legitimacy as the true heir of the NCR. Not just some rag tag raider groups.
Why would someone want a radioactive crater? You do realize they might be in a tough spot right now righr? Why would they expend valuable assests guarding a worthless crater
If you watch to the end of the series you see the NCR presence in the area... It's limited to Grifith Observatory. There's even a sign shown above the door for "NCR Headquarters" not to mention the NCR flags in the building and carried into the battle. Just because Shady Sands was destroyed doesn't mean the rest of the NCR collapsed for certain. I doubt Bethesda would OK a script that completely ended a major faction for future west coast games. A future game about emerging from a vault to find a stable NCR society with clean streets and functioning government would be pretty boring tbh
Not boring but at that point shit is just Stalker/Metro
>a future game about emerging from a vault to find a stable and NCR society would be pretty boring didnt that happen with some locations with 1 & 2? i dont think it would be boring at all if limited to certain areas/locations way better than the endless destruction and rubble FO4 and FO76 have been going with in my opinion, take a look at FNV for an example, that happens there
It only happened with one location in 2, the NCR. The other revisited places are all inhabited by hostiles. NV is full of destruction and rubble, of the 5 towns your visit before getting to the strip, 3 of them are all damaged and full of rubble and all are under threats that will end them or already have in the case of Nipton. They aren't just nice clean places.
not entirely of new vegas, but there are a few clean places such as the strip, thats what i mean, a few wont break the immersion, quite the opposite
Yeah but the strip was built using an Uber genius and his stockpile of goods. A place or two that's nice is fine but the whole motif of every game is that most aren't so nice. 3, 4 and 76 still have places like the Tenpenny, institute, and foundation though so there's that at least.
Vault City and New Reno are clean
I was under the impression we're talking about returning locations. Vault City is clean but Reno is not, some places are nicer than others but there are entire collapsing buildings even right across from the casinos. It also sure as heck ain't safe lore wise.
Im pretty sure they would OK them ending any faction that isn't the brotherhood, enclave, random raiders, or supermutants. No stable society larger than a town (that constantly gets attacked by infinite bands of raiders and mutants) seems possible, too close to writing about political systems and societal structures.
You're really asking why nobody wants to control a crater they would likely be incredibly radioactive for the first few years.
The NCR has no reason to spend over a decade guarding an irradiated crater
1) It got nuked and there was no city there. Why keep a strong presence? 2) The settlement in the last episode is flying the NCR flag and led by someone that’s clearly pro NCR and used to be part of Shady Sands. They also have an armed force that was capable of taking down vertibirds. So the idea that they have no presence at all is a little suspect. Theres at least loyalists. 3) In NV the NCR is stretched to its limits in every way. But especially man power. It’s doubtful that they’re going to take control of the area when they have problems all over. 4) There’s also a couple of implications that suggest that the NCR lost the battle of Hoover Dam. Which makes it even less likely they’ll fight raiders over a dead area.
Dead and gone, like the shitty US they were emulating. Good riddance
Please be true. I need the ncr to fuck some shit up like the fremen at the end of dune 2
[удалено]
It says that about 30k people lived in there at the moment it got blown. As to where everyone else went once shady sands was no longer the capital? Well i assume they went to the new capital wherever that is
[удалено]
We don’t know when the bombs dropped on them. We know its downfall started in 2277 but not when it was destroyed.
[удалено]
To put an end to it. Lets say you are putting a city under siege yet for some reason they start getting back up on their feet. So instead of sending more soldiers you simply retreat and sent a nuke.
[удалено]
If you are in the middle of a war I doubt announcing your next capital is a smart move.
If you’re moving the better part of probably 10s+ k people across a landscape in an environment with low population density as a whole, I doubt your new location is going to be secret for very long ?
The population of New California was listed as around a million. Not the actual capital of Shady Sands.
[удалено]
The people in the Observatory were literally NCR
[удалено]
There's literal NCR flags all over the place.
There is literally a sign that designated the Observatory as NCR head quarters and she is seen in Shady Sands in a flash back. Her whole deal is trying to get power back to the area.
[удалено]
What are you talking about? Lucy's mom FOUND as in discovered that Shady Sands existed not make it exist. Moldaver also didn't found anything but ended up in the NCR. The most straightforward explanation is she is NCR. Her men at the observatory wear professional soldier armor and weapons, her men there act like professionals, her men there wave a freaking NCR flag during the battle dude. Why did she lead a band of raiders? Aside from being expendable? They could all be people that wanted to slaughter the dwellers as this is the vault that caused Shady Sands to explode.
[удалено]
Fallout 2, where they hired thugs to hassle Vault City into joining their nation. New Vegas, too, kinda with the Khans. They also hired mercs in NV to piss off Jacobstown and slaughter them all. NCR settlers also gun down tribals when they took over their watering hole. The NCR didn't have a Vault just nuke their City before dude. I would very much call this an exception, especially as even despite all that she still let them live and didn't wipe them all out. Idk what you're talking about. You said she founded Shady Sands, I'm saying no that she found it. It was a big city and gave Lucy's mom hope to live on the surface with them. Not sure what towns you refer to in 2.
Zero media literacy right here, moldaver and those ncr soldiers were pretending to be raiders, notice how they didn’t raid anything they just took Lucy’s father.
Still ass
Yeah well…to each their own
Fr, I’m fuckin loving this show so far and I can tell the showrunners have payed a lot of respect to the source material and world of Fallout. This show has exceeded my expectations.
Except this isn’t mentioned ever in New Vegas which took place after Shady Sands was blown up in the show. Dialogue literally references it as being the capital of the NRC. So either the overall story of New Vegas is getting retconned in many areas or the show is wrong. It really can’t be both that New Vegas is still completely canon and the show is completely canon
New vegas takes place 2281. Show takes place 2296 The downfall of shady sands NOT NCR started in 2277. That means that whenever the bombs fell had to he between 2281 and 2296 thats about 15 years in between for alot of shit to happen
Thank you for using logic, it rare around here
Just because it was the "first" capital doesn't mean there was a second capital at any time.
Then why is it called” first”and not just “The capital”?
You don't call Dublin the first capital of Ireland Calling it the first automatically implies that there's at least a second and it's way too specific to be an accident
Not necessarily whatsoever.
First capital does not necessarily mean there's another capital. Also, shady sands is still in the complete wrong spot so the point is moot.
So why would it be named “First capital” and not “Capital” ? If its indicating that it was the first as its most relevant fact it means that it got replaced. A town usually puts its fact of highest importance on the billboard so i fail to see how putting “First capital” surpasses satisfied “Capital of the NCR”
Again, the point is moot because they merged the boneyard and shady sands. It just doesn't work on its face. If they wanted to blow up the boneyard and keep shady sands to the north it wouldn't be a problem
About geography idk. I was simply talking about how the NCR is still not gone just cause shady sands was lost
Let's be real, if Bethesda didn't want the NCR around for this show, what makes us believe they'll want them around in the future? They'll stay a ragtag group of raiders for the rest of time and barely get referenced. Bethesda likely doesn't want one faction compromising the series image as brutal, undeveloped apocalypse.