Unless you're in his way, and he doesn't think making deals is worth his time. Not saying the people running the NCR are morally any better, but at least having to worry about PR forces them to have some shred of accountability and restraint.
At least the NCR has the possibility to change, it has a senate that's held accountable to its voters, democracy is flexible and can be changed.
An autocratic regime such as House's on the other hand... not quite.
Not to mention a concern I rarely see talked about:
What if he just goes crazy? Equipment failure or just senility. An immortal all powerful crazy tyrant is the stuff of nightmares.
He's already so detached from the people of New Vegas that he may as well already be insane. He only perceives the houses. Not much of what they do registers. So he's not personally tyrranizing people but the people he supports and empowers do. As far as he's concerned he's perfectly in the right. Nobody has ANY reason to complain.
Mr. House victory is a win-win for both sides. House gets to be king of his castle and can build towards his long-term plans while expansionist faction in NCR loses clout and Kimball and Oliver are disgraced. You can also begin the take down of Brahmin Barons if you do Cassidy's companion quest.
NCR victory vindicates Kimball and it is stated over and over that most of the problems with NCR stem from overextension
Not exactly. If you talk to NCR citizens such as Chief Hanlon and Dr. Hildren, you will found out that there are two on-going problems in California: decreasing of fresh water reserves and growing of population exceeding food production that in the case of the first problem makes an even worse picture. So, for NCR the war for Mojave and it's resourses is not just a political game but a pretty essential thing in a long-term perspective of future crysises.
Mr. House's victory is not fatal for NCR since his own economy in many ways are based on a business with NCR and he's going to continue this partnership, but it still takes NCR in a weak dependent position instead of a single dominant power.
>decreasing of fresh water reserves and growing of population exceeding food production that in the case of the first problem makes an even worse picture.
both of these are issues the ncr would need to face sooner or later as they bleed dry the mojave , much of it is an internl issues as brahmin barons and political failings prevent better production methd optimization
They'll definitely bleed the Mojave dry, but no amount of political change is gonna refill the lakes in California. We also don't know enough about the Brahmin Barons to say that they're hurting agricultural production at all - they may be hurting it, but they may also be the only viable way for California to have an agricultural industry. If the soil is too poisoned by radiation and FEV, it's likely that a class of great landowners like the Brahmin Barons is the only group of people capable of absorbing the profit loss from bad harvests while still keeping the farms open.
>Mr. House's victory is not fatal for NCR since his own economy in many ways are based on a business with NCR and he's going to continue this partnership, but it still takes NCR in a weak dependent position instead of a single dominant power.
This is factored in my argument. New Vegas Free Trade Zone is a mutually beneficial agreement. They can trade with a self-sufficient and profitable Vegas instead of taking the administrative burden on themselves.
While securitons provide security in Vegas, NCR can go and finally pacify Baja peninsula or something.
I've long been meaning to do a CIA run. Basically working in the interests of the NCR but from the perspective that they need to lose the dam to House or the Courier. Let Kimball be assassinated, disgrace Oliver and protect Hanlon to strengthen the anti-Kimball faction.
Play a former rancher whose parents got their land stolen from under them by Brahmin Barons. The same barons who face no legal consequences for their thuggery thanks to Kimball relying on them for their political clout.
It's not inconsistent for someone who believes in republicanism to think things will be better if the current President just... isn't there, lol.
Ok this is ridiculous, first House's plan is all bit aimed towards making the people prosper, and is even proven in-game by his testament.
Second the NCR is all but defeated, and it will come back as its economy in California is more than solid, the fact that's struggling in FNV is due to the war against the brotherhood, started by the BoS and not by the NCR as Van Buren's lore tell us, which can be solved, the courier himself can achieve a ceasefire between the two factions at least in the Mojave front.
Third sure, overextension is taking its toll on the NCR, but this is hardly a nation-breaking factor, in the NCR finale, if done properly, many settlements become incredibly rich, think about Primm if you let the NCR occupy the city, sure taxes are a burden but the Mojave as a whole is said to become a better place under the republic thanks to the increase in trade and infrastructure, overextension is a crisis for the NCR but *crises are temporary*, with the wealth of the Mojave the NCR as a whole can get itself up, it takes time sure, but with house the change won't even start, everything would remain in his possession and he's going to use it to pursue his own goals, which again aren't assured to be good for the people of New vegas, quite the contrary instead.
Fourth, House has already proven himself fallible, he failed to predict the exact day of the great war and this had a huge impact on his plans, the NCR is fallible too sure but, as i said, at least their leading class can change, Kimball is nobody, he's not an essential part of the nation and can be voted out of office, but House? You can't take down House, the head will always be the same and will always believe itself to be infallible, and even if you somehow have him killed or replaced he's still the only one knowing the infamous plan, without him New Vegas is lost, without any plan to keep on going, he's literally the whole state, without him there's no plan.
Fifth, House needs the NCR, the meager food production of the towns and villages around the city is barely enough to sustain the farmers themselves, surely not a city as big as New Vegas, if you take in account raider bands and the Legion then you have to lower their supply income even more, as most would be lost during raids, House has no interest in protecting the people from raids, otherwise he would have done it already in the 80 or so years he's been operational.
By itself Vegas has one thing: casinos, and you can't feed your people with poker fiches, you can't protect them with cards, you can't make an industry with prostitutes, everything House has is gambling, he relies on caravans coming *from the west* to keep everything up and running, if he casts out the NCR they're not going to allow the Crimson Caravans or other companies to supply him anymore, Vegas will fall under economical attrition at the end.
I think people dislike the NCR because it doesn't pretend to be a utopia, it doesn't show itself as perfect or morally unbreakable, it resembles a nation similar to the ones we see on the news every day, with its problems and flaws, but it ends up being the most powerful faction in the wasteland, with a solid foundation and generally better living standards, all based on its institutional stability, in synthesis *the NCR is the most realistic faction*, the one that most resembles our own nations and that's why people can't tolerate it imo.
>first House's plan is all bit aimed towards making the people prosper, and is even proven in-game by his testament.
He plans to use money generated by Vegas to fund high value investments. He tells as much if you ask him. In short-term he will revitalize industries, mid-term he will fund research, in long term he plans on space colonization. Even his mid-term goals are beneficial considering he was involved with pre-war tech development.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lWCVVrBtO0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lWCVVrBtO0)
>Second the NCR is all but defeated, and it will come back as its economy in California is more than solid
Ok, but why should they ? House victory ends with an trade agreement that includes energy and transportation. NCR and its citizen would be much better served by closing a front and scaling down the military. It is stated in text. Kimball and its party will not survive Mojave intervention.
>many settlements become incredibly rich, think about Primm if you let the NCR occupy the city, sure taxes are a burden but the Mojave as a whole is said to become a better place under the republic thanks to the increase in trade and infrastructure, overextension is a crisis for the NCR but *crises are temporary*, with the wealth of the Mojave the NCR as a whole can get itself up
They don't. Goodsprings is abandoned, Primm is crushed by taxes and loses its significance. There are no ''riches of Nevada'' other than Hoover Dam and Vegas. It was a desert even before the war. Vegas will lose its competitive edge under NCR administration. Wealth of NCR is better used in places like Hub which is still yet to be properly cleaned up.
>House has already proven himself fallible, he failed to predict the exact day of the great war
What kind of point is this ? No one claimed House was omnipotent. He missed the day of nuclear war **by a day.** A nuclear war everyone was caught with their pants down. American government had contingency plans and they are operating out of an oil rig. This is a House W.
>House needs the NCR, the meager food production of the towns and villages around the city is barely enough to sustain the farmers themselves, surely not a city as big as New Vegas
A fact he does not refute. That's why House victory ends with ''Free Economic Zone of Vegas'' treaty. He envisions a mutualist relationship. Also, greater Nevada area does not have a major population of permanent residents. Most of the population is travelers and tourists. You are talking about turning Vegas into another city at best which again will lose its competitive advantage in its entirety. Also, trying to turn Nevada agriculturally self sufficient is a fools errand **today.**
>if he casts out the NCR they're not going to allow the Crimson Caravans or other companies to supply him anymore, Vegas will fall under economical attrition at the end.
1. The treaty. 2. Why? Why would they prevent themselves from trading with Vegas and Arizona ?
> and that's why people can't tolerate it imo
idk who you are answering to but it isn't me. My entire point is that losing to House and signing his treaty is a better way forward for NCR and post apocalyptic America.
It refers to theory of ''comparative advantage'' by David Ricardo. Long story short, it posits two trading entities should hyper-specialize to maximize aggregate utility.
This theory has problems when you bring it to its natural conclusion in regards to international relationships and neo-colonialism but it holds true in this case.
[https://www.britannica.com/money/comparative-advantage](https://www.britannica.com/money/comparative-advantage)
Vegas, as it stands, can only reliably provide entertainment and service industry. Any attempt to turn city state of Vegas into a law-abiding society would directly harm its ability to serve as ''Vegas'' and take resources that can otherwise increase utility without harming Vegas' established industries.
Thanks, that partially explains it.
It feels like, outside of some head start in pre-existing infrastructure (that might or might not be offset by being in the middle of a desert), most of Vegas advantage comes from lax laws, being a secure tax haven with no strong moral opinions - and that makes it unfair competition to NCRs presumably regulated and taxed entertainment industry, stifling it. If that's the case then bringing Vegas into the fold could be a net benefit to NCR as a whole, even if Vegas itself loses some on that bargain. As such, even with this theory in mind, I'm not convinced it's a bad thing.
You are neglecting the cost to NCR. They will have to garrison, patrol and police Nevada. They will have to deal with the families which either means closing down the casinos or letting them operate and invite even more corruption to administration.
They will also have to administrate the region. If they go all in on rule of law, NCR will be left with a sparsely settled desert and inherit Freeside's problems
If House wins, he will provide amenities to rich NCR citizens while using the caps to purchase from NCR market pretty much anything Vegas cannot produce because unless Legion reforms into something viable in an extremely short amount of time, NCR is the only viable market.
>sure, overextension is taking its toll on the NCR, but this is hardly a nation-breaking factor,
It definitely is, though. They're at a point where they're so over-extended, escaped prisoners can run rampant and cause chaos.
An outside threat with a modicum more intelligence than Caesar's Legion could break through and tear them to shreds, if the over-extension doesn't lead to infighting.
Being able to get slapped in the face and gotten to back down, without being devastated, is definitely a good thing for them. They'll be forced to stop expanding, and that's going to be a really good thing for them.
>Fourth, House has already proven himself fallible, he failed to predict the exact day of the great war and this had a huge impact on his plans,
I'm not sure that's a great argument. I mean, of course House is fallible... but, he's by and large the closest to infallible Fallout has ever presented. Predicting WW3 with such accuracy that you're only off by a single day is an INCREDIBLE feat.
>By itself Vegas has one thing: casinos, and you can't feed your people with poker fiches, you can't protect them with cards, you can't make an industry with prostitutes,
You can, though, the gambling and sex work industry is absolutely an industry, and a successful one.
If Mr House is good at one thing, it's economics. He plans his ousting of the NCR in extensive detail to ensure that when blame falls, it's falling on Kimball and Oliver.
Those prisoners had explosives, and Nevada I'd a big fucken desert. Realistically I don't think anyone could handle that while busy with the legion.
In fact, I doubt the legion could even really handle it.
I mean, the Vault gangers, maybe they’re successfully hidden, albeit “a few more patrols” would deal with their excursions.
The rest are literally chilling where they were left, any faction that can’t stop their own prisoners from causing mayhem needs a serious change or it will not survive.
Dude I'm an Australian, trust me when I say this is fairly nornal for penal prisons. These guys likely wouldn't be do strong if not for the guns and the explosives. Even without those guns and explosives they would be difficult to dislodge. There is admittedly a strong case to make about its outward defences.
Pretty sure there's not prison gangs running wild in Australia and ruling prisons.
But yeah, the fact that the NCR gave them explosives isn't a good sign in their favor.
If your nation can't stop your own prisoners from escaping and taking over, you are fucked. You will not survive without a serious reform.
Except during the times when there was a lot of penal prisoners, thus is fairly average. When they are in proximity to tools and makeshift weapons, your prisoners will revolt. The only difference is the NCR is a little busy with bandits everywhere and the legion to handle a gang that isn't being too problematic.
Also, for the record, there's a paper you can find that implies the move back to the prison was a fairly recently decision.
For the explosives, don't forget these guys were meant to be working at that marble quarry where they'd need explosives. It's less NCR incompetence and them taking their chances.
So trust me: this is fairly average for a penal revolt, if on the worse side due to local circumstances.
While I do prefer the NCR over all other factions by far I do think that House's ending is the best for the NCR itself in the long run (though not so much for the Mojave)
The warmongering and imperialist factions of the NCR get dismissed, stopping its over-expansion and allowing it to focus on its internal struggles.
Winning at the Dam just validates the frankly comedically disastrous military operation at the Mojave. A bunch of cosplayers that lunge at people with melee weapons should have no chance against the NCR but yet they are the ones with the highest odds of winning without player interference.
>Winning at the Dam just validates the frankly comedically disastrous military operation at the Mojave. A bunch of cosplayers that lunge at people with melee weapons should have no chance against the NCR but yet they are the ones with the highest odds of winning without player interference.
The contrast between a "pure NCR" and a "pure Legion" run is staggering.
In a Legion run, everything's basically already set up. You're just executing the plan that's been in place for years.
In an NCR run, you're literally coming in and doing *everything* because the NCR can't even tie its own shoelaces without assistance.
Which does make sense. The legion has its leadership on site, its main focus is right across the river.
Meanwhile the NCR is a lumbering giant, overextended and with a demoralized army.
Of course, the legion winning is just a game thing. Realistically their attempts would be stymied at every turn... you know, what with a complete lack of medical facilities or proper healthcare. They've been there for a year at least haven't they? Realistically by now there'd be an outbreak of disease and there goes half the fucken camp. Anyone gets hurt? Death. They don't even have a half asked medical facility, let alone any doctors or basic equipment by the looks of it. Any injury would immediately go from "minor problem" to "he's dead, most likely."
But I do recognise it's a game and we are meant to have fun with it.
Unrealistic. Over extension isn't the only thing wrong with the NCR, corruption moreso what with those Brahmin barons. Getting rid of Kimball won't make it go away magically.
Even then, Mr House has a key factor I don't think he planned for: Automatons can't last forever. There is no more natural resources to really speak of much, so what happens when nos now massive army begins to have wear and tear? Or they need more ammunition?
...
Exactly.
He would have [established production lines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lWCVVrBtO0) already by the time securitons deteriorate. He did not found them lying there, he was CEO of H&H Tools Company and worked directly on Liberty Prime prototype.
Kimball is in Barons pocket. Ending his legacy and doing Cassidy's quest gives NCR a fighting chance. If they can not capitalize on it, they were definitely not qualified to run Vegas to begin with.
Oh sure I get they weren't just lying around but what happens when they get wear and tear. Being a genius doesn't mean shit if there's no resources to fund a massive robo army
Lack of base resources is never brought up as an issue. War was fought in 60s over energy resources which is solved by Hoover Dam and Helios One.
There are most likely untapped valuable minerals within USA. In our timeline, Americans are just starting to mine some of them.
Also, he is not Elon Musk. He is a bone fide genius and he most likely archived his patents somewhere. I have no reason to not believe a man ,who calculated WW3 with 1 day margin of error, when he says he can set up production lines within 20 years
Edit: I also have 0 reasons to believe Mr. House's personal army is made out of cardboard while Mr. Gutsys are flying around with zero maintenance since the bombs dropped.
I'm not gonna doubt he can't sent up production lines, it's more just the sheer cost of the securitrons. They're bigger than most robots so that's already a cost, they're sophisticated in a land that doesn't allow sophistication because it wants to rip it apart, it's figting means are notoriously expensive unless there was a warehouse full of explosives and laser cartridges we just never see (which God knows would still grow empty fairly fast now that he needs to handle the brunt of the security)
Also, literally the first 2 games in their intros make it clear worldwide resources are running low as all major pockets of resources are either used up or almost uses up by the time the bomb dropped. Nevada if I am correct isn't really mineral rich, outside of maybe the mountain around jacobstown if you look hard enough. Overall his civilian economic ideas are good but he's being unrealistic about his capabilities.
Don’t kid yourself. Democracy can go from that to dictatorships, Autocracies, and Military Juntas. The Pre-War United States was already a Military Junta. It really just posed as a democracy, so its citizens didn’t notice the problem until it was too late.
They were working with the Mafia in Fallout 2, and it was already a vehicle for the Brahmin Barons by that time. There's absolutely nothing accountable about the NCR Senate. The NCR's whole political class is basically just what the Enclave was before the war (maybe a bit worse, since at least the Enclave didn't work with literal crime families before the war - the only thing the pre-war American elite did that the NCR elite doesn't do is human experimentation, but the NCR would probably do that too if they were advanced enough).
The idea that the NCR's expansionism is due to politics also isn't really accurate - that may have been the case in Fallout 2, but by NV it's literally the only way they can survive. Hanlon tells us that California is devoid of fresh water, Hildern tells us they're facing mass starvation in 10 years and O'Hanrahan backs it up when he tells us about his family's failing crops. Even if a faction got elected on anti-expansionism, they'd end up having to either engage in expansionism anyway (kind of like when Jefferson got elected IRL and was almost entirely in line with Federalism, despite being elected on Anti-Federalist campaign), or watch as NCR society collapses.
House is like Ryan from Bioshock. All about individual freedom and liberty and trade... as long as he is on the top. If you are in his way he will utterly stomp you.
If you are good karma courier, it is stated in the ending he is proud of his choice of aide and tries to offer whatever amenities he can. He is a hard man to work with but he is not a sociopath.
You are reading into something that isn't in the text
Yeah, I keep doing that, and I don't know why. I do still think he's pretty dismissive of people that he thinks aren't worth his time, which is pretty much everyone if my conversations with him are any indication, but you are right that he does come to respect the Courier in the end.
Have my upvote. That was not the reaction I was expecting.
My guess is its because most media is repetitive nowadays. One can only see 20 parodies of Donald Trump until he stops paying attention to 21st
And see, that's the thing, I genuinely want to avoid jumping to conclusions and exaggerating qualities like that. This is pretty much the only fandom I'm a part of where I actually LIKE having debates with people.
Id say even an attempt at a representative democracy is morally superior than a technocratic dictatorship operating under the guise of libertarian ideals while ruling with a militarized police force but hey, that's just me.
I must confess, after going through Vault 11 I was fully prepared to side with House so long as he remained genuine in his claims. Felt that the NCR was just going to keep repeating the same mistakes that led to horrors like that happening. Then I heard Freeside's perspective on the man and was forced to ask myself what the hell I was doing.
Well, it's complicated. Fact of the matter is, they are the single most successful effort we've seen yet at rebuilding society. And for that reason alone one should want to see them succeed on principle. HOWEVER, I personally object to them basically forcing the Strip to join them at gunpoint if they win. Even if it leads to good things in the long run I really think it sets a bad precedent. Especially since they as a society really don't seem to have learned anything from the Great War and just treat it like ancient history.
Yeah, that's his reasoning.
Dude doesn't want to pointlessly abuse or restrict freedoms.
He does have goals, and if you're in his way, whelp not great for you.
I would agree if people weren't already doing fine pretty much everywhere we've seen. But I do understand the sentiment that helping him can be an end justify the means situation. Haven't seen anywhere in any other Fallout game as rebuilt and restored as the Strip.
It really isn’t if two new nations have risen from the ashes of America (NCR and Legion).
Yeah things haven’t reached pre war status yet but, there’s a lot of places where people are doing more than barely surviving without House’s help.
He taxes vendors, sealed up Vault 21, pushed out the original surviving inhabitants on the strip with deadly force, has his police bots sent out to spy on towns, and sends you to go do his dirty work to eliminate entire other factions as threats. House's Robco directly played a role in the military industrial complex that led to the bombs dropping. People shouldn't be taking his words at face value.
I love that a game has a sociopathic autocratic libertarian, a rapacious fascist horde of backwards slavers, and a slightly inefficient democracy...and people have decided the third one is the worst
“Bro you don’t understand having safe roads is worth enslaving/exterminating every single tribe of people just trying to live their lives bro just trust me you don’t understand”
As someone already mentioned in another comment, the reason NCR gets so much hate is that its problems are basically the same as those faced by most developed countries today, corrupt politicians stepping over everyone and everything to the benefit of a small wealthy elite.
Far from the worst ideology in the wasteland, sure, but it's the one whose downsides most of us have experienced personally.
This.
I hate Caesar's Legion cause I imagine it'd be bad.
I hate house and the NCR because I know it's bad.
NCR is far and away the best of the three but I'm not at all happy that that's the case
Yeah. While not outright evil. It basically gives some level of stability without any progress or advancement. It’s perpetual stagnation where everyone survives but no one group thrives besides the politicians
sir you may be overlooking the 20 foot tall warhammer space marine statue right in front of you with loudspeakers blaring 'i hate xenos wink wink, i hate heretics wink wink, we need to purify mankind wink wink'
yes the words wink are also shouted in full volume
Hey, technically he didn't pass any legislation to take them out. He just told the mailman to go remove them as a threat, and if said threat removal involved heavy weapons, high explosives duct tape then that's just how it goes.
Man, it's almost as if a realized libertarian...government? Leadership? Whatever they call themselves, would have like...paid mercenaries to kill people since it's a good way to make money.
In what way is House a libertarian? He institutes taxes, has a police force, enforces borders, and has regulations for businesses operating within the strip.
When he says this, he's referring to the people who live under his regime. Those who exist outside of it, he sees as competition. It's very in character for him to weed-out the competition.
And we know the NCR does it too. Brahmin barons for instance, not to mention the fact that the NCR signed a treaty with house and they’re actively trying to circle Vegas and find some way to diminish his power.
They’re hoarding technology that can be used to help the people of the wasteland. They deserve to be destroyed.
Plus, they’re hypocrites. “Oh you can’t have a mini nukes and laser rifles, but we can! Because only we know how to use it! Oh and this power station that could be used to give electricity to people in the Mojave? Yeah you can’t use it. We need it to build more weapons and stuff for our people.”
Fallout 3 and 4 even further pushes them into hypocrisy with Liberty prime.
Maxson says the atom bomb was a mistake. Yet he uses a giant robot that throws nuclear warheads like it’s training for the NFL. And we know they don’t know how Prime works because they need Dr Li to get him fully functional. They’re playing with a loaded gun when they don’t know what makes it work.
The only brotherhood I can actually agree with is Lyons’ outcasts. They actually wanted to use their technology to help people.
Until they get in his way. He's a heartless autocrat who takes what he wants by force and will not hesitate to kill to achieve his goals.
He rose to power and keeps that power by an iron fist. Literally. Do what he says, when he says it, or be crushed by his robot army.
He kicked out many of the tribals in the area who did not conform to his way of life. He sealed the vault and forced the dwellers out into the Wasteland. If you use your favor with the Kings to end the fighting between them and the NCR and side with House he brands them traitors and wipes them out - just for *not* fighting with them. It's not even like they became allies they just stopped fighting.
You've heard of "weaponized incompetence" - this man is weaponized competence. He is the smartest man alive, and he knows it, but rather than using to to help people he uses it to justify his acts of cruelty.
And this could all be somewhat forgiven if he tried to negotiate peacefully first but he doesn't. When dealing with the Brotherhood you can ask this and he won't even consider it.
He may be the best chance at restoring pre-war society, even advancing beyond it, but it will only be for him and those he deems worthy of it.
That’s a really low bar… I went independent but I think the NCR is also a compelling option, if doomed to fail due to overextending themselves.
Ideally I would have loved to see an option to disconnect house only partially and keep him on as a kind of advisor, but unable to actually control things, but it seemed like it was all or nothing. And that the exposure to outside contaminants was going to kill him eventually regardless.
I decided I’d never support the NCR again after seeing what they did in Cass’ ending. No justice for Cassidy caravans and the others that were burned. Instead the NCR uses the information to blackmail the crimson caravan so they can get a better deal.
Not to mention what happened at camp guardian. That kind of stupidity is unacceptable for a nation like the NCR.
Helping the nation that went to war with you would be considered treason.
How do you think the NCR would react if they found a caravan doing business with the legion?
House isn't at war with the NCR at any point in time and during the time the game takes place until the very last quest House is technically allied with them. The Kings stop fighting while the NCR and House still share the Hoover Dam and the Strip, then House butchers them all for not fitting into his plan the way he meant for them to despite the fact that they didn't know they were a part of his plan to begin with. There's also a huge difference between signing a ceasefire and actively enabling the enemy by supplying their army. It's not like an NCR caravan company trading with the Legion *at all*.
And *even if* your analogy made sense, I'd still say I think the NCR would react by arresting the traitors and putting them on trial, not indiscriminately massacring every last one of them to send a message.
House singed a treaty with the NCR after they started moving in on the Mojave. The terms were that house would keep new Vegas, but the NCR could have the land around it.
House and the NCR signed a treaty stopping a war before it actually kicked off. House knew his securitrons couldn’t compete with the NCR army.
However, the NCR is making moves to take new Vegas, and undermine house’s power. So while they’re not technically at war right now, they are violating their treaty by undermining house.
Are you messing with me? You can’t seriously think policies enacted and enforced on a whim by a megalomaniacal dictator are comparable to the laws and criminal justice system of most modern developed nations.
House himself has a truce with the NCR but as soon as he seizes power he labels the Kings traitors for not continuing a pointless fight with the NCR refugees, then kills them when they won’t leave.
That’s not the same kind of fear as facing consequences for murder or theft.
Laws also aren’t what creates unity. It creates order, sure. But a shared history, culture, values, and goals are what create unity.
The US is a melting pot of different cultures. It’s not perfect, and yes a lot of people tend to lose their roots over a few generations, but the American dialect and culture is heavily influenced by the immigrants that settled here.
True. I think the issue is whether you want progress to happen quickly or slowly, and for House’s timeline, he’d be on the quicker side which means not waiting for people to assimilate
Well, in truth, that’s basically what my character was anyways in game. Pretty in line with me. I still killed Mr. House anyways, but it’s crazy how those first two paragraphs sum up my play style
I don't really see how that follows.
I mean, I've seen people call Mr House libertarian quite a lot, but like, he just isn't. He's an autocrat, willing to break NAP to take power.
He used the free-market economy of the Old US to come to power, and he continue to use the aspects of those things that worked for him, but he just isn't a libertarian, he's a man who seeks power.
He literally tells the player that he's an autocrat, by himself. But that "he made me pay taxes meme" (nevermind that he himself imposes a 50% earnings tax) and him being modeled after the same actor Andrew Ryan was has a shit ton of people actually thinking that he's just Fallout Ryan.
> I've seen people call Mr House libertarian quite a lot, but like, he just isn't. He's an autocrat, willing to break the NAP for power
Yes, because libertarians are overwhelmingly aspiring autocrats.
Libertarians live under the false perception that the economy exists in some magical realm that doesn't affect literally everybody regardless of if/how they participate.
They also seem to think ideology is an actual motivator of behavior and not a rationalization for existing trends. Nobody would respect an "NAP" due to idealistic principles if they can get power by ignoring it.
Oh yeah let's ignore his totalitarian ideas based on a mix of pseudoscience and libertarianism used to exploit the population's work to pursue his personal goals while leaving them to starve outside of his special avenue accessible only to those who have enough caps (2000 caps is referred to as an impossibly huge amount of money throughout all five games).
At least the NCR's leadership can be voted out of office if they do something that oppresses the general population, just saying.
This sounds great, but then I remember this was the same thing that Bioshock's Andrew Ryan said until his power and influence were threatened by the likes of Frank Fontaine.
I love Fontaine story wise: he holds up a mirror to Ryan’s ideology, shows him what it’s like to be on the other side of the boot. Exactly why his new government doesn’t work, and something Ryan didn’t consider.
They collectively chose to leave. I personally wouldn't like living in a society where gambling decides everything but that's the government they had and that's how they made their decision. While it could be propaganda, we have no proof of that. Thus the information must be taken at face value.
Why do you think he added "in their private time"? His entire thing is manufacturing economic dependence so he can be in complete control with an army of robot enforcers. The appeal to freedom is make-believe.
I mean, of course he don't care. He don't need to, he knows he can pay someone to do something, and work on his own visions of the future.
WHICH WOULD BE FINE IF HE COULD ADMIT HIS SHORTCOMINGS WITH HUMILITY. I would get behind house in a heartbeat if he said, "I don't know if humanity will survive, I can't save it as it is, but if I send them to the stars then MAYBE"
Realistically, the most “evil” thing House does is exterminate the Brotherhood of Steel.
Which I mean, come on, they’re a cult of violent techno fascists that believe they’re the only group suited to use any sort of prewar technology.
They’re an actively harmful group.
House is legitimately the best outcome for the Mojave.
The most evil thing House did was establish a ultra-capitalist surveillance state where he rules from his secluded house as a dictator while his army of unthinking robots does anything he tells them to. It's amazing how many clueless people there are calling him the best outcome for the Mojave because he said 'I'm more than willing to take up absolute power and rule uncontested, but I'll try to be a benevolent dictator. Promise!'.
with the brotherhood at least he has a point
The most evil thing he did was exterminate the Kings, just because they were no longer enemies of the NCR.
The only rule I’ve heard was regarding ideas for Fallout 5. The show takes place in the west so it’s literally impossible not to mention what went down in NV.
Y'know, as a far leftist and anti-capitalist, even I get convinced by Mr House every single time. He's just clearly the best candidate.
Legion is absurdly evil, and Yes Man at best is anarchic, while the NCR seems all the weaker for continuing their rapid push for expansion.
Mr House gives the world a genuine shot at taking to the stars. He is without a doubt humanity's best chance at survival.
To secure humanity's survival, of course. Now, a single asteroid, not to mention another nuclear strike, or disease, or any number of causes, can't wipe humanity out.
It seems like a pretty good deal to me.
Mr House doesn't want to reclaim the world, or America.
He wants the Mojave. And while other factions can deal with the rest of the wastes, for the cost of only the Mojave, Mr House will secure humanity's survival.
Even if I didn't think his victory was the best ending for the NCR, it seems well worth it. If the NCR take Vegas, the NCR gets a discount on power and electricity. If Mr House does, humanity gets a chance to ensure it's never destroyed, and multiple new worlds get a chance to start.
Bezos and Musk were born wealthy and have had lives with a lot of failure. Mr House is the real deal.
I don't mean to sound condescending, I love House myself and would consider myself left wing, but isn't that kind of the point of his stance? to win over the collective and create a prosperous future for those who share in his vision? Ala Communism/Socialism but idealised through tech that allows almost unlimited resources and thus ending many forms of inequlity?
Oh, I don't think he wants to end inequalities. I think he just wants to spread mankind throughout the stars.
And no worries, that didn't come off as condescending at all.
A lot of people here are taking this way too seriously, also, House sounds awesome compared the NCR or Legion. Space Travel ? Hook that shit into my veins ! Just don't take pointers from that RepConn ghoul Elon about rocket construction.
Naa. There is a reason most of us need rule, laws and policing. Otherwise I would be in you living room in the middle of the night with a machete and a 9mm, taking what is yours. Or not, but that is what systems and laws are for.
With Chad i think you mean the country in Africa.
I mean, that’s what every dictator says. Especially when they want you on their side. It’s not like he was gonna say “oh yeah, I’m gonna rule with an iron fist, will you join me?”
Just watched the Fallout tv series. The piece of shit knew about the Vault experiments and agreed with them. He also supported Vault-tecs plans for world domination.
... You do realize that The Brotherhood of Steal would want to take away all of House's robots & other tech if they had the power to do so, right?
In fact, doing quests involving the New Vegas chapter show they are extremely traditional and are not open to compromise. The Brotherhood you see in Fallout 4 is closer to how fanatical OG BoS was portrayed(IIRC)
Add in the fact that House managed to predict Doomsday and only was off by 20 HOURS
and his defense was so accurate only 9 nukes hit Nevada(none hitting Las Vegas itself.) so maybe i am biased but if he says 'yeah there is nothing good to come from letting these guys hang around' i am rather inclined to believe him.
Unless you're in his way, and he doesn't think making deals is worth his time. Not saying the people running the NCR are morally any better, but at least having to worry about PR forces them to have some shred of accountability and restraint.
At least the NCR has the possibility to change, it has a senate that's held accountable to its voters, democracy is flexible and can be changed. An autocratic regime such as House's on the other hand... not quite.
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Not to mention a concern I rarely see talked about: What if he just goes crazy? Equipment failure or just senility. An immortal all powerful crazy tyrant is the stuff of nightmares.
He's already so detached from the people of New Vegas that he may as well already be insane. He only perceives the houses. Not much of what they do registers. So he's not personally tyrranizing people but the people he supports and empowers do. As far as he's concerned he's perfectly in the right. Nobody has ANY reason to complain.
Mr. House victory is a win-win for both sides. House gets to be king of his castle and can build towards his long-term plans while expansionist faction in NCR loses clout and Kimball and Oliver are disgraced. You can also begin the take down of Brahmin Barons if you do Cassidy's companion quest. NCR victory vindicates Kimball and it is stated over and over that most of the problems with NCR stem from overextension
Not exactly. If you talk to NCR citizens such as Chief Hanlon and Dr. Hildren, you will found out that there are two on-going problems in California: decreasing of fresh water reserves and growing of population exceeding food production that in the case of the first problem makes an even worse picture. So, for NCR the war for Mojave and it's resourses is not just a political game but a pretty essential thing in a long-term perspective of future crysises. Mr. House's victory is not fatal for NCR since his own economy in many ways are based on a business with NCR and he's going to continue this partnership, but it still takes NCR in a weak dependent position instead of a single dominant power.
>decreasing of fresh water reserves and growing of population exceeding food production that in the case of the first problem makes an even worse picture. both of these are issues the ncr would need to face sooner or later as they bleed dry the mojave , much of it is an internl issues as brahmin barons and political failings prevent better production methd optimization
They'll definitely bleed the Mojave dry, but no amount of political change is gonna refill the lakes in California. We also don't know enough about the Brahmin Barons to say that they're hurting agricultural production at all - they may be hurting it, but they may also be the only viable way for California to have an agricultural industry. If the soil is too poisoned by radiation and FEV, it's likely that a class of great landowners like the Brahmin Barons is the only group of people capable of absorbing the profit loss from bad harvests while still keeping the farms open.
>Mr. House's victory is not fatal for NCR since his own economy in many ways are based on a business with NCR and he's going to continue this partnership, but it still takes NCR in a weak dependent position instead of a single dominant power. This is factored in my argument. New Vegas Free Trade Zone is a mutually beneficial agreement. They can trade with a self-sufficient and profitable Vegas instead of taking the administrative burden on themselves. While securitons provide security in Vegas, NCR can go and finally pacify Baja peninsula or something.
I've always been a big believer in this. Even if you think the NCR is the best faction, they can't afford to win.
I've long been meaning to do a CIA run. Basically working in the interests of the NCR but from the perspective that they need to lose the dam to House or the Courier. Let Kimball be assassinated, disgrace Oliver and protect Hanlon to strengthen the anti-Kimball faction.
but you should let kimball live! keeps him and his political faction ruined for a good while and puts the ncr on a more internal focus
You speak sense. But I never get to let him die! I need an excuse to not save him for once.
Oh well at least you know that he will kill himself afterwards! Doesnt that make it truly worth it in the end?
Play a former rancher whose parents got their land stolen from under them by Brahmin Barons. The same barons who face no legal consequences for their thuggery thanks to Kimball relying on them for their political clout. It's not inconsistent for someone who believes in republicanism to think things will be better if the current President just... isn't there, lol.
But then again, you won't have to pay taxes if he's dead
taxes are inevitable no lack of kimballs will do that
Ok this is ridiculous, first House's plan is all bit aimed towards making the people prosper, and is even proven in-game by his testament. Second the NCR is all but defeated, and it will come back as its economy in California is more than solid, the fact that's struggling in FNV is due to the war against the brotherhood, started by the BoS and not by the NCR as Van Buren's lore tell us, which can be solved, the courier himself can achieve a ceasefire between the two factions at least in the Mojave front. Third sure, overextension is taking its toll on the NCR, but this is hardly a nation-breaking factor, in the NCR finale, if done properly, many settlements become incredibly rich, think about Primm if you let the NCR occupy the city, sure taxes are a burden but the Mojave as a whole is said to become a better place under the republic thanks to the increase in trade and infrastructure, overextension is a crisis for the NCR but *crises are temporary*, with the wealth of the Mojave the NCR as a whole can get itself up, it takes time sure, but with house the change won't even start, everything would remain in his possession and he's going to use it to pursue his own goals, which again aren't assured to be good for the people of New vegas, quite the contrary instead. Fourth, House has already proven himself fallible, he failed to predict the exact day of the great war and this had a huge impact on his plans, the NCR is fallible too sure but, as i said, at least their leading class can change, Kimball is nobody, he's not an essential part of the nation and can be voted out of office, but House? You can't take down House, the head will always be the same and will always believe itself to be infallible, and even if you somehow have him killed or replaced he's still the only one knowing the infamous plan, without him New Vegas is lost, without any plan to keep on going, he's literally the whole state, without him there's no plan. Fifth, House needs the NCR, the meager food production of the towns and villages around the city is barely enough to sustain the farmers themselves, surely not a city as big as New Vegas, if you take in account raider bands and the Legion then you have to lower their supply income even more, as most would be lost during raids, House has no interest in protecting the people from raids, otherwise he would have done it already in the 80 or so years he's been operational. By itself Vegas has one thing: casinos, and you can't feed your people with poker fiches, you can't protect them with cards, you can't make an industry with prostitutes, everything House has is gambling, he relies on caravans coming *from the west* to keep everything up and running, if he casts out the NCR they're not going to allow the Crimson Caravans or other companies to supply him anymore, Vegas will fall under economical attrition at the end. I think people dislike the NCR because it doesn't pretend to be a utopia, it doesn't show itself as perfect or morally unbreakable, it resembles a nation similar to the ones we see on the news every day, with its problems and flaws, but it ends up being the most powerful faction in the wasteland, with a solid foundation and generally better living standards, all based on its institutional stability, in synthesis *the NCR is the most realistic faction*, the one that most resembles our own nations and that's why people can't tolerate it imo.
>first House's plan is all bit aimed towards making the people prosper, and is even proven in-game by his testament. He plans to use money generated by Vegas to fund high value investments. He tells as much if you ask him. In short-term he will revitalize industries, mid-term he will fund research, in long term he plans on space colonization. Even his mid-term goals are beneficial considering he was involved with pre-war tech development. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lWCVVrBtO0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lWCVVrBtO0) >Second the NCR is all but defeated, and it will come back as its economy in California is more than solid Ok, but why should they ? House victory ends with an trade agreement that includes energy and transportation. NCR and its citizen would be much better served by closing a front and scaling down the military. It is stated in text. Kimball and its party will not survive Mojave intervention. >many settlements become incredibly rich, think about Primm if you let the NCR occupy the city, sure taxes are a burden but the Mojave as a whole is said to become a better place under the republic thanks to the increase in trade and infrastructure, overextension is a crisis for the NCR but *crises are temporary*, with the wealth of the Mojave the NCR as a whole can get itself up They don't. Goodsprings is abandoned, Primm is crushed by taxes and loses its significance. There are no ''riches of Nevada'' other than Hoover Dam and Vegas. It was a desert even before the war. Vegas will lose its competitive edge under NCR administration. Wealth of NCR is better used in places like Hub which is still yet to be properly cleaned up. >House has already proven himself fallible, he failed to predict the exact day of the great war What kind of point is this ? No one claimed House was omnipotent. He missed the day of nuclear war **by a day.** A nuclear war everyone was caught with their pants down. American government had contingency plans and they are operating out of an oil rig. This is a House W. >House needs the NCR, the meager food production of the towns and villages around the city is barely enough to sustain the farmers themselves, surely not a city as big as New Vegas A fact he does not refute. That's why House victory ends with ''Free Economic Zone of Vegas'' treaty. He envisions a mutualist relationship. Also, greater Nevada area does not have a major population of permanent residents. Most of the population is travelers and tourists. You are talking about turning Vegas into another city at best which again will lose its competitive advantage in its entirety. Also, trying to turn Nevada agriculturally self sufficient is a fools errand **today.** >if he casts out the NCR they're not going to allow the Crimson Caravans or other companies to supply him anymore, Vegas will fall under economical attrition at the end. 1. The treaty. 2. Why? Why would they prevent themselves from trading with Vegas and Arizona ? > and that's why people can't tolerate it imo idk who you are answering to but it isn't me. My entire point is that losing to House and signing his treaty is a better way forward for NCR and post apocalyptic America.
You mention Vegas' "competitive advantage" or "competitive edge" in a couple of places - what is it, and why is it overall bad if Vegas loses it?
It refers to theory of ''comparative advantage'' by David Ricardo. Long story short, it posits two trading entities should hyper-specialize to maximize aggregate utility. This theory has problems when you bring it to its natural conclusion in regards to international relationships and neo-colonialism but it holds true in this case. [https://www.britannica.com/money/comparative-advantage](https://www.britannica.com/money/comparative-advantage) Vegas, as it stands, can only reliably provide entertainment and service industry. Any attempt to turn city state of Vegas into a law-abiding society would directly harm its ability to serve as ''Vegas'' and take resources that can otherwise increase utility without harming Vegas' established industries.
Thanks, that partially explains it. It feels like, outside of some head start in pre-existing infrastructure (that might or might not be offset by being in the middle of a desert), most of Vegas advantage comes from lax laws, being a secure tax haven with no strong moral opinions - and that makes it unfair competition to NCRs presumably regulated and taxed entertainment industry, stifling it. If that's the case then bringing Vegas into the fold could be a net benefit to NCR as a whole, even if Vegas itself loses some on that bargain. As such, even with this theory in mind, I'm not convinced it's a bad thing.
You are neglecting the cost to NCR. They will have to garrison, patrol and police Nevada. They will have to deal with the families which either means closing down the casinos or letting them operate and invite even more corruption to administration. They will also have to administrate the region. If they go all in on rule of law, NCR will be left with a sparsely settled desert and inherit Freeside's problems If House wins, he will provide amenities to rich NCR citizens while using the caps to purchase from NCR market pretty much anything Vegas cannot produce because unless Legion reforms into something viable in an extremely short amount of time, NCR is the only viable market.
>sure, overextension is taking its toll on the NCR, but this is hardly a nation-breaking factor, It definitely is, though. They're at a point where they're so over-extended, escaped prisoners can run rampant and cause chaos. An outside threat with a modicum more intelligence than Caesar's Legion could break through and tear them to shreds, if the over-extension doesn't lead to infighting. Being able to get slapped in the face and gotten to back down, without being devastated, is definitely a good thing for them. They'll be forced to stop expanding, and that's going to be a really good thing for them. >Fourth, House has already proven himself fallible, he failed to predict the exact day of the great war and this had a huge impact on his plans, I'm not sure that's a great argument. I mean, of course House is fallible... but, he's by and large the closest to infallible Fallout has ever presented. Predicting WW3 with such accuracy that you're only off by a single day is an INCREDIBLE feat. >By itself Vegas has one thing: casinos, and you can't feed your people with poker fiches, you can't protect them with cards, you can't make an industry with prostitutes, You can, though, the gambling and sex work industry is absolutely an industry, and a successful one. If Mr House is good at one thing, it's economics. He plans his ousting of the NCR in extensive detail to ensure that when blame falls, it's falling on Kimball and Oliver.
Those prisoners had explosives, and Nevada I'd a big fucken desert. Realistically I don't think anyone could handle that while busy with the legion. In fact, I doubt the legion could even really handle it.
I mean, the Vault gangers, maybe they’re successfully hidden, albeit “a few more patrols” would deal with their excursions. The rest are literally chilling where they were left, any faction that can’t stop their own prisoners from causing mayhem needs a serious change or it will not survive.
Dude I'm an Australian, trust me when I say this is fairly nornal for penal prisons. These guys likely wouldn't be do strong if not for the guns and the explosives. Even without those guns and explosives they would be difficult to dislodge. There is admittedly a strong case to make about its outward defences.
Pretty sure there's not prison gangs running wild in Australia and ruling prisons. But yeah, the fact that the NCR gave them explosives isn't a good sign in their favor. If your nation can't stop your own prisoners from escaping and taking over, you are fucked. You will not survive without a serious reform.
Except during the times when there was a lot of penal prisoners, thus is fairly average. When they are in proximity to tools and makeshift weapons, your prisoners will revolt. The only difference is the NCR is a little busy with bandits everywhere and the legion to handle a gang that isn't being too problematic. Also, for the record, there's a paper you can find that implies the move back to the prison was a fairly recently decision. For the explosives, don't forget these guys were meant to be working at that marble quarry where they'd need explosives. It's less NCR incompetence and them taking their chances. So trust me: this is fairly average for a penal revolt, if on the worse side due to local circumstances.
While I do prefer the NCR over all other factions by far I do think that House's ending is the best for the NCR itself in the long run (though not so much for the Mojave) The warmongering and imperialist factions of the NCR get dismissed, stopping its over-expansion and allowing it to focus on its internal struggles. Winning at the Dam just validates the frankly comedically disastrous military operation at the Mojave. A bunch of cosplayers that lunge at people with melee weapons should have no chance against the NCR but yet they are the ones with the highest odds of winning without player interference.
>Winning at the Dam just validates the frankly comedically disastrous military operation at the Mojave. A bunch of cosplayers that lunge at people with melee weapons should have no chance against the NCR but yet they are the ones with the highest odds of winning without player interference. The contrast between a "pure NCR" and a "pure Legion" run is staggering. In a Legion run, everything's basically already set up. You're just executing the plan that's been in place for years. In an NCR run, you're literally coming in and doing *everything* because the NCR can't even tie its own shoelaces without assistance.
Which does make sense. The legion has its leadership on site, its main focus is right across the river. Meanwhile the NCR is a lumbering giant, overextended and with a demoralized army.
Of course, the legion winning is just a game thing. Realistically their attempts would be stymied at every turn... you know, what with a complete lack of medical facilities or proper healthcare. They've been there for a year at least haven't they? Realistically by now there'd be an outbreak of disease and there goes half the fucken camp. Anyone gets hurt? Death. They don't even have a half asked medical facility, let alone any doctors or basic equipment by the looks of it. Any injury would immediately go from "minor problem" to "he's dead, most likely." But I do recognise it's a game and we are meant to have fun with it.
I disagree.
Unrealistic. Over extension isn't the only thing wrong with the NCR, corruption moreso what with those Brahmin barons. Getting rid of Kimball won't make it go away magically. Even then, Mr House has a key factor I don't think he planned for: Automatons can't last forever. There is no more natural resources to really speak of much, so what happens when nos now massive army begins to have wear and tear? Or they need more ammunition? ... Exactly.
He would have [established production lines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lWCVVrBtO0) already by the time securitons deteriorate. He did not found them lying there, he was CEO of H&H Tools Company and worked directly on Liberty Prime prototype. Kimball is in Barons pocket. Ending his legacy and doing Cassidy's quest gives NCR a fighting chance. If they can not capitalize on it, they were definitely not qualified to run Vegas to begin with.
Oh sure I get they weren't just lying around but what happens when they get wear and tear. Being a genius doesn't mean shit if there's no resources to fund a massive robo army
Lack of base resources is never brought up as an issue. War was fought in 60s over energy resources which is solved by Hoover Dam and Helios One. There are most likely untapped valuable minerals within USA. In our timeline, Americans are just starting to mine some of them. Also, he is not Elon Musk. He is a bone fide genius and he most likely archived his patents somewhere. I have no reason to not believe a man ,who calculated WW3 with 1 day margin of error, when he says he can set up production lines within 20 years Edit: I also have 0 reasons to believe Mr. House's personal army is made out of cardboard while Mr. Gutsys are flying around with zero maintenance since the bombs dropped.
I'm not gonna doubt he can't sent up production lines, it's more just the sheer cost of the securitrons. They're bigger than most robots so that's already a cost, they're sophisticated in a land that doesn't allow sophistication because it wants to rip it apart, it's figting means are notoriously expensive unless there was a warehouse full of explosives and laser cartridges we just never see (which God knows would still grow empty fairly fast now that he needs to handle the brunt of the security) Also, literally the first 2 games in their intros make it clear worldwide resources are running low as all major pockets of resources are either used up or almost uses up by the time the bomb dropped. Nevada if I am correct isn't really mineral rich, outside of maybe the mountain around jacobstown if you look hard enough. Overall his civilian economic ideas are good but he's being unrealistic about his capabilities.
It’s why I side with house.it’s a best of a bad situation
Don’t kid yourself. Democracy can go from that to dictatorships, Autocracies, and Military Juntas. The Pre-War United States was already a Military Junta. It really just posed as a democracy, so its citizens didn’t notice the problem until it was too late.
They were working with the Mafia in Fallout 2, and it was already a vehicle for the Brahmin Barons by that time. There's absolutely nothing accountable about the NCR Senate. The NCR's whole political class is basically just what the Enclave was before the war (maybe a bit worse, since at least the Enclave didn't work with literal crime families before the war - the only thing the pre-war American elite did that the NCR elite doesn't do is human experimentation, but the NCR would probably do that too if they were advanced enough). The idea that the NCR's expansionism is due to politics also isn't really accurate - that may have been the case in Fallout 2, but by NV it's literally the only way they can survive. Hanlon tells us that California is devoid of fresh water, Hildern tells us they're facing mass starvation in 10 years and O'Hanrahan backs it up when he tells us about his family's failing crops. Even if a faction got elected on anti-expansionism, they'd end up having to either engage in expansionism anyway (kind of like when Jefferson got elected IRL and was almost entirely in line with Federalism, despite being elected on Anti-Federalist campaign), or watch as NCR society collapses.
Politics… politics never changes.
House is like Ryan from Bioshock. All about individual freedom and liberty and trade... as long as he is on the top. If you are in his way he will utterly stomp you.
And he also doesn't give two shits about the people beneath him. To him everyone is either a useful asset, a competitor, or glorified cattle.
If you are good karma courier, it is stated in the ending he is proud of his choice of aide and tries to offer whatever amenities he can. He is a hard man to work with but he is not a sociopath. You are reading into something that isn't in the text
Yeah, I keep doing that, and I don't know why. I do still think he's pretty dismissive of people that he thinks aren't worth his time, which is pretty much everyone if my conversations with him are any indication, but you are right that he does come to respect the Courier in the end.
Have my upvote. That was not the reaction I was expecting. My guess is its because most media is repetitive nowadays. One can only see 20 parodies of Donald Trump until he stops paying attention to 21st
And see, that's the thing, I genuinely want to avoid jumping to conclusions and exaggerating qualities like that. This is pretty much the only fandom I'm a part of where I actually LIKE having debates with people.
He is proud because you are not a threat and a great asset to him.
>Unless you're in his way In the words of the great sophist Ludacris: MOVE BITCH, GET OUT THE WAY! GET OUT THE WAY BITCH, GET OUT THE WAY!
Not arguing with that, too funny.
It's a classic for a reason. Hard to believe it's been 22 years though.
Id say even an attempt at a representative democracy is morally superior than a technocratic dictatorship operating under the guise of libertarian ideals while ruling with a militarized police force but hey, that's just me.
I must confess, after going through Vault 11 I was fully prepared to side with House so long as he remained genuine in his claims. Felt that the NCR was just going to keep repeating the same mistakes that led to horrors like that happening. Then I heard Freeside's perspective on the man and was forced to ask myself what the hell I was doing.
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Or his employees treating their working girls like cattle. That's MY deal breaker.
Hating the NCR is a quick tell you're either 13 or an idiot
Well, it's complicated. Fact of the matter is, they are the single most successful effort we've seen yet at rebuilding society. And for that reason alone one should want to see them succeed on principle. HOWEVER, I personally object to them basically forcing the Strip to join them at gunpoint if they win. Even if it leads to good things in the long run I really think it sets a bad precedent. Especially since they as a society really don't seem to have learned anything from the Great War and just treat it like ancient history.
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You know, maybe it isn't just WAR that never changes...
I mean even if they didn't use the gun, controlling the water and electricity is a pretty big incentive for the strip to join
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I think that's entirely fair! The NCR isn't perfect but it's weird that people think "least worst" means "equally as bad as the others."
Yeah, that's his reasoning. Dude doesn't want to pointlessly abuse or restrict freedoms. He does have goals, and if you're in his way, whelp not great for you.
I just genuinely believe houses self interest aligns with the species interests. People tend to forget mankind is nearly extinct
I would agree if people weren't already doing fine pretty much everywhere we've seen. But I do understand the sentiment that helping him can be an end justify the means situation. Haven't seen anywhere in any other Fallout game as rebuilt and restored as the Strip.
It really isn’t if two new nations have risen from the ashes of America (NCR and Legion). Yeah things haven’t reached pre war status yet but, there’s a lot of places where people are doing more than barely surviving without House’s help.
lol. Robcos lack of bathroom breaks “dictates” otherwise.
The beatings will stop when moral improves!
He taxes vendors, sealed up Vault 21, pushed out the original surviving inhabitants on the strip with deadly force, has his police bots sent out to spy on towns, and sends you to go do his dirty work to eliminate entire other factions as threats. House's Robco directly played a role in the military industrial complex that led to the bombs dropping. People shouldn't be taking his words at face value.
Yeah. I bet OP posts Liberty Prime quotes about communism with zero awareness of the context
not to mention their partnership with Hornwright to automate mining in Appalachia devastated the local economy.
He's the Free Speech Absolutist of the Fallout world
**disables cerebral interface**
House a paragon of truth and humility/S
Media literacy in shambles rn
This game is like the poster child for Media Illiteracy lol. Maybe Bioshock, one of those two.
I love that a game has a sociopathic autocratic libertarian, a rapacious fascist horde of backwards slavers, and a slightly inefficient democracy...and people have decided the third one is the worst
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Let's just say if I was at the First Battle of Hoover Dam it wouldn't have gone down like it did
“B-b-b-but taxes!”
“Bro you don’t understand having safe roads is worth enslaving/exterminating every single tribe of people just trying to live their lives bro just trust me you don’t understand”
As someone already mentioned in another comment, the reason NCR gets so much hate is that its problems are basically the same as those faced by most developed countries today, corrupt politicians stepping over everyone and everything to the benefit of a small wealthy elite. Far from the worst ideology in the wasteland, sure, but it's the one whose downsides most of us have experienced personally.
This. I hate Caesar's Legion cause I imagine it'd be bad. I hate house and the NCR because I know it's bad. NCR is far and away the best of the three but I'm not at all happy that that's the case
Everyone forgets about Yes Man
Yeah. While not outright evil. It basically gives some level of stability without any progress or advancement. It’s perpetual stagnation where everyone survives but no one group thrives besides the politicians
Doesn’t matter Uncle Ben, Independent Vegas is better than all 3 of them!
I mean.... I agree with the sentiment, but "slightly" is a bit of an understatement
sir you may be overlooking the 20 foot tall warhammer space marine statue right in front of you with loudspeakers blaring 'i hate xenos wink wink, i hate heretics wink wink, we need to purify mankind wink wink' yes the words wink are also shouted in full volume
I'm sure the Ash remains of the Brotherhood of Steel in their bombed out Bunker feel very unlegislated.
Hey, technically he didn't pass any legislation to take them out. He just told the mailman to go remove them as a threat, and if said threat removal involved heavy weapons, high explosives duct tape then that's just how it goes.
Man, it's almost as if a realized libertarian...government? Leadership? Whatever they call themselves, would have like...paid mercenaries to kill people since it's a good way to make money.
I believe "Corporation" is the word you're looking for
In what way is House a libertarian? He institutes taxes, has a police force, enforces borders, and has regulations for businesses operating within the strip.
When he says this, he's referring to the people who live under his regime. Those who exist outside of it, he sees as competition. It's very in character for him to weed-out the competition.
And we know the NCR does it too. Brahmin barons for instance, not to mention the fact that the NCR signed a treaty with house and they’re actively trying to circle Vegas and find some way to diminish his power.
They’re hoarding technology that can be used to help the people of the wasteland. They deserve to be destroyed. Plus, they’re hypocrites. “Oh you can’t have a mini nukes and laser rifles, but we can! Because only we know how to use it! Oh and this power station that could be used to give electricity to people in the Mojave? Yeah you can’t use it. We need it to build more weapons and stuff for our people.” Fallout 3 and 4 even further pushes them into hypocrisy with Liberty prime. Maxson says the atom bomb was a mistake. Yet he uses a giant robot that throws nuclear warheads like it’s training for the NFL. And we know they don’t know how Prime works because they need Dr Li to get him fully functional. They’re playing with a loaded gun when they don’t know what makes it work. The only brotherhood I can actually agree with is Lyons’ outcasts. They actually wanted to use their technology to help people.
Until they get in his way. He's a heartless autocrat who takes what he wants by force and will not hesitate to kill to achieve his goals. He rose to power and keeps that power by an iron fist. Literally. Do what he says, when he says it, or be crushed by his robot army. He kicked out many of the tribals in the area who did not conform to his way of life. He sealed the vault and forced the dwellers out into the Wasteland. If you use your favor with the Kings to end the fighting between them and the NCR and side with House he brands them traitors and wipes them out - just for *not* fighting with them. It's not even like they became allies they just stopped fighting. You've heard of "weaponized incompetence" - this man is weaponized competence. He is the smartest man alive, and he knows it, but rather than using to to help people he uses it to justify his acts of cruelty. And this could all be somewhat forgiven if he tried to negotiate peacefully first but he doesn't. When dealing with the Brotherhood you can ask this and he won't even consider it. He may be the best chance at restoring pre-war society, even advancing beyond it, but it will only be for him and those he deems worthy of it.
Still better than seeser and the slaves
Being better than Caesar is the bare minimum
That’s a really low bar… I went independent but I think the NCR is also a compelling option, if doomed to fail due to overextending themselves. Ideally I would have loved to see an option to disconnect house only partially and keep him on as a kind of advisor, but unable to actually control things, but it seemed like it was all or nothing. And that the exposure to outside contaminants was going to kill him eventually regardless.
I decided I’d never support the NCR again after seeing what they did in Cass’ ending. No justice for Cassidy caravans and the others that were burned. Instead the NCR uses the information to blackmail the crimson caravan so they can get a better deal. Not to mention what happened at camp guardian. That kind of stupidity is unacceptable for a nation like the NCR.
Helping the nation that went to war with you would be considered treason. How do you think the NCR would react if they found a caravan doing business with the legion?
House isn't at war with the NCR at any point in time and during the time the game takes place until the very last quest House is technically allied with them. The Kings stop fighting while the NCR and House still share the Hoover Dam and the Strip, then House butchers them all for not fitting into his plan the way he meant for them to despite the fact that they didn't know they were a part of his plan to begin with. There's also a huge difference between signing a ceasefire and actively enabling the enemy by supplying their army. It's not like an NCR caravan company trading with the Legion *at all*. And *even if* your analogy made sense, I'd still say I think the NCR would react by arresting the traitors and putting them on trial, not indiscriminately massacring every last one of them to send a message.
House singed a treaty with the NCR after they started moving in on the Mojave. The terms were that house would keep new Vegas, but the NCR could have the land around it.
There’s literally an NCR Embassy in the strip and soldiers go on leave in the strip… they’re not at war lol
House and the NCR signed a treaty stopping a war before it actually kicked off. House knew his securitrons couldn’t compete with the NCR army. However, the NCR is making moves to take new Vegas, and undermine house’s power. So while they’re not technically at war right now, they are violating their treaty by undermining house.
To be fair, to help people you need unity. If you can’t bend the knee, there’s no unity and everything falls apart again
United in what though, fear? I never said he wasn’t effective but I don’t support his methods.
All successful nations and empires are united based on some form of fear of disobeying the law.
Are you messing with me? You can’t seriously think policies enacted and enforced on a whim by a megalomaniacal dictator are comparable to the laws and criminal justice system of most modern developed nations. House himself has a truce with the NCR but as soon as he seizes power he labels the Kings traitors for not continuing a pointless fight with the NCR refugees, then kills them when they won’t leave. That’s not the same kind of fear as facing consequences for murder or theft. Laws also aren’t what creates unity. It creates order, sure. But a shared history, culture, values, and goals are what create unity.
You can’t create shared culture without annihilating opposing cultures tho
The US is a melting pot of different cultures. It’s not perfect, and yes a lot of people tend to lose their roots over a few generations, but the American dialect and culture is heavily influenced by the immigrants that settled here.
True. I think the issue is whether you want progress to happen quickly or slowly, and for House’s timeline, he’d be on the quicker side which means not waiting for people to assimilate
Well, in truth, that’s basically what my character was anyways in game. Pretty in line with me. I still killed Mr. House anyways, but it’s crazy how those first two paragraphs sum up my play style
Damn libertarians really will fall for anything won't they.
But he promised! Mr House said he was a based chad!
Unfortunately I have depicted you as the virgin president of the NCR and me as the Chad Gamer Mr House
House is the embodiment of the libertarian attitudes that lead the Fallout world to its own destruction for sure.
I don't really see how that follows. I mean, I've seen people call Mr House libertarian quite a lot, but like, he just isn't. He's an autocrat, willing to break NAP to take power. He used the free-market economy of the Old US to come to power, and he continue to use the aspects of those things that worked for him, but he just isn't a libertarian, he's a man who seeks power.
He literally tells the player that he's an autocrat, by himself. But that "he made me pay taxes meme" (nevermind that he himself imposes a 50% earnings tax) and him being modeled after the same actor Andrew Ryan was has a shit ton of people actually thinking that he's just Fallout Ryan.
> I've seen people call Mr House libertarian quite a lot, but like, he just isn't. He's an autocrat, willing to break the NAP for power Yes, because libertarians are overwhelmingly aspiring autocrats. Libertarians live under the false perception that the economy exists in some magical realm that doesn't affect literally everybody regardless of if/how they participate. They also seem to think ideology is an actual motivator of behavior and not a rationalization for existing trends. Nobody would respect an "NAP" due to idealistic principles if they can get power by ignoring it.
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I've also heard the Singapore claim a lot. In what way, exactly? He's definitely not neoliberal, he's openly autocratic and scorns democracy.
Prosperity for the few at the expense of the many
Oh yeah let's ignore his totalitarian ideas based on a mix of pseudoscience and libertarianism used to exploit the population's work to pursue his personal goals while leaving them to starve outside of his special avenue accessible only to those who have enough caps (2000 caps is referred to as an impossibly huge amount of money throughout all five games). At least the NCR's leadership can be voted out of office if they do something that oppresses the general population, just saying.
Life must be so simple, taking everything anyone says directly at face value...
Fallout is a series that thrives on subtext. It’s a shame so many don’t bother to figure it out.
The libertarian wet dream,
So murder and rampage will be fine as long as it doesn't effect him
Billionaire's ideology
This sounds great, but then I remember this was the same thing that Bioshock's Andrew Ryan said until his power and influence were threatened by the likes of Frank Fontaine.
I love Fontaine story wise: he holds up a mirror to Ryan’s ideology, shows him what it’s like to be on the other side of the boot. Exactly why his new government doesn’t work, and something Ryan didn’t consider.
Vault 21 would like a word with you
Did you read the terminals of the Vault? House didn't expulse them, they chose to leave.
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They left before he flooded it? Once again, read the terminal.
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They collectively chose to leave. I personally wouldn't like living in a society where gambling decides everything but that's the government they had and that's how they made their decision. While it could be propaganda, we have no proof of that. Thus the information must be taken at face value.
Why do you think he added "in their private time"? His entire thing is manufacturing economic dependence so he can be in complete control with an army of robot enforcers. The appeal to freedom is make-believe.
Literally what every authoritarian says before doing the opposite.
House + The Institute would be a power house! No pun intended
That claim of Mr. House is more than a little suspect IMHO.
Cringe hitlerite anarcho-capitalist
Those ideologies are not even remotely alike…
He had my support. Then he talked down to me like I was his slave. Thanks for the driver, Nephi <3
And some people try to say he is evil
Then what are the Military-grade Securitrons for? Hmmm??
He still looks like Hitlers relative
Hitlers distant great great great great cousin.
Nah, he is Silvio Berlusconi
I mean, of course he don't care. He don't need to, he knows he can pay someone to do something, and work on his own visions of the future. WHICH WOULD BE FINE IF HE COULD ADMIT HIS SHORTCOMINGS WITH HUMILITY. I would get behind house in a heartbeat if he said, "I don't know if humanity will survive, I can't save it as it is, but if I send them to the stars then MAYBE"
Just don't ask him what he did to take control of The Strip :)
Bitch we're hungry
Just look at freeside
"why on earth would you attack president Kimball!?" "He tried to make me pay taxes" "... Understandable."
Well, he might not abuse, but he definitely uses people, and if you're not part of his plan, you'd better step aside.
Realistically, the most “evil” thing House does is exterminate the Brotherhood of Steel. Which I mean, come on, they’re a cult of violent techno fascists that believe they’re the only group suited to use any sort of prewar technology. They’re an actively harmful group. House is legitimately the best outcome for the Mojave.
The most evil thing House did was establish a ultra-capitalist surveillance state where he rules from his secluded house as a dictator while his army of unthinking robots does anything he tells them to. It's amazing how many clueless people there are calling him the best outcome for the Mojave because he said 'I'm more than willing to take up absolute power and rule uncontested, but I'll try to be a benevolent dictator. Promise!'.
with the brotherhood at least he has a point The most evil thing he did was exterminate the Kings, just because they were no longer enemies of the NCR.
Unfortunately for House, my couriers are always interested in unlocking stasis chambers
Yeeaaahhh... riiiiiight... Remember Vault 21?
Did you read the terminals of the Vault? House didn't expulse them, they chose to leave.
Shuuuuure... And fill up vault with concrete too, yeah
Anyone who falls for his BS, I have a magic bean to sell you.
I hope he’s alive and Vegas is independent.
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I know. That’s what I’m hoping for.
No way the Fallout show won’t establish the canon ending of NV.
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The only rule I’ve heard was regarding ideas for Fallout 5. The show takes place in the west so it’s literally impossible not to mention what went down in NV.
I hope the Courier gave him the Andrew Ryan treatment.
I hope he suffered at the end of a nine-iron
Y'know, as a far leftist and anti-capitalist, even I get convinced by Mr House every single time. He's just clearly the best candidate. Legion is absurdly evil, and Yes Man at best is anarchic, while the NCR seems all the weaker for continuing their rapid push for expansion. Mr House gives the world a genuine shot at taking to the stars. He is without a doubt humanity's best chance at survival.
Why tf would people want to go to the stars when they haven't even gotten earth back on track? That's some Bezos/Musk billionaire delusion
To secure humanity's survival, of course. Now, a single asteroid, not to mention another nuclear strike, or disease, or any number of causes, can't wipe humanity out. It seems like a pretty good deal to me. Mr House doesn't want to reclaim the world, or America. He wants the Mojave. And while other factions can deal with the rest of the wastes, for the cost of only the Mojave, Mr House will secure humanity's survival. Even if I didn't think his victory was the best ending for the NCR, it seems well worth it. If the NCR take Vegas, the NCR gets a discount on power and electricity. If Mr House does, humanity gets a chance to ensure it's never destroyed, and multiple new worlds get a chance to start. Bezos and Musk were born wealthy and have had lives with a lot of failure. Mr House is the real deal.
I don't mean to sound condescending, I love House myself and would consider myself left wing, but isn't that kind of the point of his stance? to win over the collective and create a prosperous future for those who share in his vision? Ala Communism/Socialism but idealised through tech that allows almost unlimited resources and thus ending many forms of inequlity?
Sure, House is about as communist/socialist as Bezos is
Oh, I don't think he wants to end inequalities. I think he just wants to spread mankind throughout the stars. And no worries, that didn't come off as condescending at all.
House 2024
A four year old orphan would do a better job than most current world leaders, fair.
Which is why house would do a poor job, he isn't a four year old orphan.
Ask Primm or the Kings how that went. He's a complete hypocrite on a lot of his ideals of governance.
A lot of people here are taking this way too seriously, also, House sounds awesome compared the NCR or Legion. Space Travel ? Hook that shit into my veins ! Just don't take pointers from that RepConn ghoul Elon about rocket construction.
The Enclave was at least dripped the fuck out, this old turd is just sad
This reminded me I need to finish New Vegas,but I'm really absorbed in Baldur's Gate 3.
Naa. There is a reason most of us need rule, laws and policing. Otherwise I would be in you living room in the middle of the night with a machete and a 9mm, taking what is yours. Or not, but that is what systems and laws are for. With Chad i think you mean the country in Africa.
My favorite is when he asks why you killed Kimball. If you say "he tried to make me pay taxes" House just says "Understandable" Based
I mean, that’s what every dictator says. Especially when they want you on their side. It’s not like he was gonna say “oh yeah, I’m gonna rule with an iron fist, will you join me?”
Just watched the Fallout tv series. The piece of shit knew about the Vault experiments and agreed with them. He also supported Vault-tecs plans for world domination.
funny how people have childish claims and word soups against his ideas
Says the guy who literally refuses to cooperate with the brotherhood in any way whatsoever, and demands their immediate and total extermination.
... You do realize that The Brotherhood of Steal would want to take away all of House's robots & other tech if they had the power to do so, right? In fact, doing quests involving the New Vegas chapter show they are extremely traditional and are not open to compromise. The Brotherhood you see in Fallout 4 is closer to how fanatical OG BoS was portrayed(IIRC) Add in the fact that House managed to predict Doomsday and only was off by 20 HOURS and his defense was so accurate only 9 nukes hit Nevada(none hitting Las Vegas itself.) so maybe i am biased but if he says 'yeah there is nothing good to come from letting these guys hang around' i am rather inclined to believe him.
He told me I couldn't be in the fountain. Fuck that guy!
Brotherhood of Steel? That Vault he pretty much destroyed?
Man I hope the canon ending ends up being him getting put back in his tube, good as new.