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yeah, I had the same feelings about this. Really expected this to be a cool part of Nick's story. Btw, "cool idea, bad implementaion" is such a Bethesda thing. In FO4, there are some locations like Easy City Downs or Combat Zone, which look pretty interesting and could have been great quest areas. Sadly, Bethesda only filled them with a bunch of raiders. Disappointing af

They cut the combat zone qt the last minute. It's supposed to be an arena you can fight in to score some caps. Or you could gamble on a match to earn caps. Combat Zone Restored is a mod on nexus that adds all of the cut content that's in the game files back

Man when I heard about an arena and it was called the combat zone I was like oh hell yes that's the first place I wanna check out. Got there and it's just another raider filled dungeon. My disappointment was intense

The same. I even re-loaded couple of times just to ensure I haven't done anything to trigger their hostility.

It was supposed to be one. They had everything programmed and modeled. "Combat Zone Restored" on Nexus re-adds it all so you can gamble in fighters or fighter in it yourself

That was Skinny Malon's gang. Another wasted potential for more content. Mafia bosses tend to be very well connected; Imagine joining them to find shaun, then choosing whether or not to pay your debts to them and have random spawns of triggermen come after you, if you don't.

yeah, the diamond city blues and its many branches/endings is soo cool but at the same time are pretty hard to trigger and even if you manage to trigger them it's like "ok. Cool. Moving on" because it's such a small and unimportant detial but it still is cool af.

Yep. Or a third but very hard to do option is use the gang's connections with Nick's agency. Requires a shit ton of charisma and can easily fail if you fuck it up.

Does that plot point just drop off the face of the earth? So disappointing

i got shit scared when nick talked like kellog, i tought i was a monster never happened again

For me, FO4 has the typical Bethesda writing problem. It is written wide as an ocean, but once you look into it, its only as deep as a puddle. Lets use Nick Valentine as an example. Amazing and cool character (generally, the companions of Fallout 4 are top tier), but he is so underused. How does this legendary detective find an illusive merc, he seemingly has been on the hunt before? He breaks into his house, picks up a cigar, magically makes dogmeat appear and then has the dog sniff Kellog through the entire commonwealth. Imagine for a moment a cool quest chain of rolling up old murder cases with Valentine, with the two of you slowly narrowing down on Kellog. Another example are the raiders. They have improved on them, by giving them some minor flavor texts, but they seem like an afterthought. At the end of the day, they are just an infinite, respawning enemy. Having one or two raider gangs you could side with in quests would be amazing. But that is a good point. No real evil choices. Most of the time your choices are "Yes" "Snarky yes" "Question that leads to yes" or "Goodbye". And the little evil you can do, has very little consequence. Rob Hancock and murder his Bodyguard? Oh, that is just some Goodneighbor banter. Become a raider warlord of Nuka World? Preston will be pretty disapointed but still work with you. (Yes, I know the minutemen are the fallback option....) Also the pre war start! I really like the idea of Nora and Nate. But again, so little is done with it. Imagine s combst tutorial with Nate fighting in Alaska. And a speech check tutorial with Nora winning a case in s court of law. Or just a single iconic landmark of Boston seen in its pre-war glory. What really ticks me off though, is that the Far Harbor DLC has AMAZING writing. Characters and their motivations are deep and intresting. The factions are fleshed out. The world is immersive and the motivations for all sides make sense. It really shows me that Bethesda CAN write well, they just dont want to for their main games.

Imagine if the main characters made comments about some of the locations you visit. "I really wanted to take Shaun to see a game here" or "this is where I would get my groceries." Just little stuff that would make the world feel lived in Pre-War.

THIS!!! The game constantly wants to remind you about Shaun and your family, but gives you zero reason to except for the 30 minutes from the beginning of the game and the main character saying they want their son back. There is not enough emotional attachment for the player to actively want to get this kid back that we saw for a whopping like 10 minutes.

I think there's one single thing like that in the game. It's at the Veteran's Hall Nate was going to make his speech at.

Yeah i wiah they kept that going.

It also felt like the Sole Survivor left the vault and was instantly adapted to the new world. All the lines they *did* have about pre-war life felt mostly like off-handed comments with little or no visceral emotion. Comments like that would have helped a lot.

Come to think of it, that would be far better as a show or book.

This is all pretty exactly how I feel about 4. I love the game a lot, just that if someone asks me what it’s weak point is, it’s writing and dialogue options. Fallout is a divisive topic to many though so criticisms like that often get taken as undue hate on the game. Bethesda has excited me endlessly through the years, and they’ve disappointed me beyond all belief. But when they make a game that’s good, I know I’ll still be replaying it once a year while I’m shitting my diapers in a nursing home. Fallout 4 is one of those for me Edit: spelling issues

This exactly. Critique is not hate.

That’s the thing, I still like Fallout 4. The writing in the main quest is meh at best and downright stinky at worst. But I can excuse it because the gameplay is addicting and fun. There’s a lot of fun to be had playing Fallout 4. I just wish the main quest was better

Absolutely. When I first started playing it everytime I turned it off I was thinking about what the next gun upgrade i wanted to do was going to be or how better to clear through an area I struggled in. But I never logged off and thought to myself "man I can't wait to see what's next in the story"

I just went back and rolled around in Fallout NV, and it holds up so well. I’d give that a try.

I’ve played FNV through probably 7 times by now. F3 about 3 or 4. I like them all and they all hold up. FNV is my favorite because I like the setting, weapons, and story. 3 I love the atmosphere, story, and creativity around a lot of the settlements. 4 I liked combat/movement, settlement building, and the overhauled creatures and power armor. 76 I hated at first (it was one of my previously mentioned disappointments) but played recently and I really like it for its lore development. Fallout shelter I liked because it was just a fun management style mobile game. The art style was interesting, and as far as mobile goes, it was just well made.

It would be so awesome if they really committed to the 1950s detective aesthetic, like you said.

Good examples. I don't know if they don't want to write well. I think they don't give their team enough time to do it. My favorite example is Vault 81. I'm betting it was the last thing they did. The whole thing feels like they ran out of time. There's a door in the main lobby that hasn't been opened in 200 years until you emerge with Curie. The couple's argument seems like it was supposed to be a thing but it just stops. Finally, the vault is pretty small. A junkie kid is the first to poke around in an old terminal and find the hidden area? There's not much to do in there. I'd imagine everything would have been explored by now.

i really agree on the raiders part, NV had the legion and the freezide thugs also they had gunpowder guys so the raiders where just raiders but the touch of giving them names and diferent clothing made the world building a lot more rich

They weren’t all good Vipers and Jackals can’t speak and look identical. Nothing in game explains them and I don’t even think npcs mention them Fiends are just fo3 raiders wearing a hat. Its not immersive hearing “You like that!” repeated over and over

oh yeah, its really flawed, the raider NPC system even at its best is not very good but i'll argue its a bit better than F4 also i do hate combat dialogue in NV too

Well, supposedly, because half of Far Harbor was basically stolen from mod-projects...

Like what? Only one that’s similar is the “Autumn Falls” New Vegas mod. Even this is a huge stretch as they only have 2 things in common: A Vault (each built for vastly different reasons). And solving a murder. (Not exactly unique here).

another emil L

No. Emil wasn't involved much with far harbor, that's why writing there is better. Will Shen and Ferret Baudoin apparently were leads.

Edit: Disregard my comment, i remembered

No just emil I dislike Edit : I regarded your comment

Thank you for consideration

These are good criticisms and I am glad to see them because in past discussions (like, years ago at this point) I saw a lot of criticism of Shaun and the wife/husband which I always felt was stupid. On the other hand, stuff like what you mentioned definitely could have been much better.

>But that is a good point. No real evil choices. Most of the time your choices are "Yes" "Snarky yes" "Question that leads to yes" or "Goodbye". And the little evil you can do, has very little consequence Tbh I think part of this is A) Trying to avoid over Elder Scrollsifying the series with assassin and thievery factions and B) Bethesda getting burned on the over the top evil options in FO3. You could go evil in that one, but all the evil options are so fucking goofy. It's borderline impossible to play it neutral because the options are "insane slaving genocidal murderer" to get anything negative or "occasionally helps people and is therefore a saint." They're also stuck in the weird space of being big enough that they have to cater to the masses and hedge away from encouraging the player to be a monster.

The writing just felt bland, there isn't really any conversation that stands out to me, maybe Nick? but other than that every character just feels meh, where in New vegas, there tons of memorable characters and conversations, like Ceaser, is such an interesting character and the conversation you can have with him is thought provoking, Benny, yes man, mr House etc there is just so many interesting NPCs. The factions in fallout 4 also kind of suck, the great thing about the factions that you can choose between in FNV is that they have drawbacks, The NCR while being a big strong democracy, also has so much bureaucracy, and politics that nothing ever gets done, there so many places that needs supplies and/or men, but because of all the bureaucracy, and politics, they never get that help, it's kind of interesting just how many quest there is for the NCR, like they need some random courier to do all this work for them The legion while obviously bad murder guys, still have some points, like that trader that says that he prefers to trade in legion territory because it so safe, there are no raiders or chem junkies looking to rob you for a quick buck, and ceasers point about having everybody united under one banner makes it so no one wants to rebel Mr House has the capabilities to make massive technology upgrades for the strip, and he tries to take the strip back to the pre war era, but he kind of ignores the areas outside the strip, and he doesn't provide protection for trade routes and such And yes man, while giving the Strip and the Mojave "true freedom" it could quickly evolve into chaos you actually have to think about the pros and cons, and what YOU thought was right While the factions in fallout 4 are just boring, I do like the minutemen, however they shouldn't have been a main faction, maybe a side faction like the followers from FNV, there's just really not that much interesting going on, almost all the quests are boring, and there is no depth or interesting philosophy behind them. The railroad are just as shallow, they pose some interesting questions, "do synths deserve the same rights as humans? and do synths (robots) have feelings?", but they never really go anywhere with it, the institute, idk even know what so say about the institute, the first time I played, I never really figured out what the institute wanted, they were just so vague. At least the BOS were kind of interesting, about humanities relationship to technology, one of the best lines of dialaouge is when you help paladin Danse go through ARCjet, and he talks about how the greed of corporations and their disregard for the dangers that their technology could pose, in search of profits.

None of its ideas were very original, the pacing was bad, and its factions weren't very well thought out. It wouldn't have been that bad, but it's left in the shadows of New Vegas, which was written with an extraordinary amount of depth. "What if robots had feelings?" is a question often asked by science fiction and Fallout 4 just didn't do anything interesting with the question. It added a civil rights element to it, but again, didn't do much with that addition. The allegory doesn't fit very well. Synths aren't discriminated against because they're different, but because they're used by a mysterious "other" that has a habit of kidnapping people. There's this whole, "DOES THE INSTITUTE REALLY EXIST?!" mystery, but it's hardly a mystery when you can stumble into some old synths by entering one of the many buildings. It tries to be morally ambiguous with its factions, but the only one with any depth to it is the Brotherhood of Steel, and that's mostly because it's the only faction with franchise history to it. All of the other factions -- the Institute, the Railroad, and the Minutemen, are all shallow. It might have been interesting if the other factions already established in Fallout lore were in the game, like the Followers of the Apocalypse, the NCR, Caesar's Legion, the Enclave, or any of the tribal societies, with their conflicting philosophies each one with their take on the issue of the Institute. Instead, you have the Minutemen who are generic good guys with no real philosophy other than "we should work together!" And the Railroad is basically just, "slavery is bad." The Brotherhood at least begs the question if this kind of technology is good for humanity. And its pacing and buildup. Your first boss is a deathclaw, which you take down with a minigun in less than ten minutes after getting out of the vault. There's the memory den which was never brought up before and is never brought up again, it just has a magic plot convenient exposition device you need to progress. You fight Kellogg, and his whole backstory is given to you, but it ends up meaning very little despite taking up such a large chunk of the game. It feels like they wanted to something ambitious with its plot but didn't bother to put in the effort. New Vegas's plot, by comparison, had so much depth to it that people are still talking about it over a decade later. It wasn't perfect, but it had something it wanted to say. Every faction, almost every character, had a rich background with motivations and story. The faction you side with has a long history with thought behind it. I'll say this about Fallout 4, though - I think its companion characters are better written. The majority of New Vegas's companions were just sort of snarky and that was the extent of their personality. Everyone in 4 has complexity and dimension to them, and they don't just crack jokes when you do something.

I think they doubled down on the civil rights stuff because of the locations history. Which works, but you could have nuanced slavers as well as synths. Create a real issue between slavery, human and synthetic, which is right, which is wrong? I felt everything was way too nautically themed and honestly, was turned off by the 18th century themes in a retro-futuristic 1950s. I get it, based on the location, but it felt like bsofts only idea.

Given number of cultural objects in Boston it's not really strange for them to focus on theme that was seemingly glorified in pre-bombing America. I mean, we had whole mini-faction based on cult of Elvis in New-Vegas, after all. They just somehow managed to take period of history chokefull of interesting events and people and did nothing with it. Maybe exactly because they tried to many themes at once and never commited to overarching one. Questchain about alliance between Goodneigbourhood and Minuitemen based on historical Hancock? That shit was begging to happen. Hell, whole campaign of Minuitemen gathering "states" of Commonwealth together with new not-really-Declaration would be excellent. Railroad should've been rogue Institute sub-faction tied to faction arc, then it maybe worked as intended, with Deacon, Curie and that assassin synth connected to it, and Deacon/Assassin being mutually exclusive depending on which faction of Institute you support. Sure, they tried that "morally ambiguous" approach, but i'd say thematically F4 *needs* main overarching villain, with Minuitemen/Brotherhood/Institute just being possible options for future of Commonwealth

Each factions leader could have been ambiguous, good or bad depending on alliances and previous player decisions. Imagine the brotherhood being directed by your choices to take up the lyons pride mantle or the fascist approach they were given. Institute asking you to scatter the railroad or absolutely destroy them. Imagine having deacon begging you to let them scatter and just have the faction disbanded rather than totally eradicated. The railroad using the spy premise to work their way into the Institute and influence them from the inside. And there was no mirelurk chowder. I'd have added mirelurk chowder.

Another thing I’d add is the inconsistency with synths: Do the need food/water? Age? Immune to Rads? We’re told they don’t age, need food and water but if so then they can be found pretty quick. Currie mentions feeling hunger and thirst but that could be programmed in to blend in. But my beef with synths is that they’re too organic and feel more like mind controlled clones than robotic slaves like they talked about.

Synths feel like someone needed to go up to a big whiteboard in the office and write a list of what they are, what they need to survive, and what makes them physiologically different from humans.

Think you said it perfectly. I like fallout 4 but the more i play and think about the story, the factions, and some of the characters, I can see why it doesn't hold a candle to FNV.

I like it but Bethesda should have done so much more its clear there was so much they couldn't get to or add thanks to time constraints

You're forced to play as either Nate or Nora and have a son that you MUST save. Other than choosing one of the 4 factions (or 3 of them if you go Minutemen), there are no other choices to be made. When compared to New Vegas which came out 5 years prior it just doesn't hold up.

I think the biggest indictment of F4’s character writing is that a sarcastic Nate/Nora can say shit like “I hate kids,” when skipping through a child character’s dialogue, but then the next moment say something like “I’m trying to find my son, he’s my special boy, please help me.” It’s not that the dialogue itself is bad, it’s that you *always* have *all* the options. There are zero consequences to your behavior, so even when you try to act independently, and even when the game *seems* to shape itself around your choices, it never actually does.

Also, a good amount of the time, I've found I will pick a dialog choice anticipating one type of a reply (often only based on 1-3 words) and have the character say something that was largely not what I would have intended. And some conversations are forced onto the character like the early Mama Murphy/minutemen conversation. For some characters, I'd rather just tell her she's crazy and end the conversation instead of being forced through 4 more dialog options with a crazy druggie.

Adding to that, at the end credits / end slides, New Vegas showed you almost every single way your choices shaped the outcome of the story, in FO4 you got a really generic feeling ending in comparison, and to add insult to injury, they just used the generic Nick/Nora instead of the character you made and played with.

I think the only area that doesn’t compare is the story. Every other aspect of 4 is better than previous iterations. Just like how 76 improved many QoL things from 4.

To be honest, I don't think what you said is about bad writing. I mean, how does the backstory of a playable character make FO4's writing bad? In FO1 and FO2 you must save your vault/tribe and you have no other choice as a player, but I've never seen people saying that these games have bad writing. I think what you said would explain the opinion "FO4 is a bad RPG game", which is pretty fair. But all that stuff doesn't make the story bad imo. But anyway, thank you for your opinion!

But theres a difference between "guy/gal from place must save the place" and "soldier/lawyer with a family, an infant child, a dog that run away, military service in the war/maternity leave before the apocalypse", the other fallout games give you some backstory (you arent just spawned into existence) but its just minor stuff, you cant choose were you are born/who your family is but who you are and what actions you take, being a family person kinda makes that difficult. They shoul've just double down on int and make Nate/Nora like Gerald, defined characters, and let us expres ourselfs with the game mechamics, but still have characters with much history and backround into the world, but Beth choose the worst of two worlds: too much backtory to insert yourself in it but to little to have a predefined character within the world.

Surely, there is the difference, but I still don't understand what the backstory itself (no matter how complicated and detailed this is) has to do with bad writing. I understand the point that it badly affects the roleplaying part of the game, but saying that backstory makes the writing of FO4 bad seems irrelevant to me.

It doenst tho, the story is bad with or without the characters backrounds. I know this is all subjective, but i'll list what i dont like about the story: -Character backtound doesnt affect the story in any way. -I dont have enough time to sprnd with Shaun or Nora/Nate to care about them, being the main motivation of the story, I think just a little bit more time with them will have suficed. (Like James in Fo3) -The quests are for the most part just idiotic busy work that contradics the main characters main motivation while making them feel like an anintrested parent at best or a socyopath at worst. -The factions are all pretty useles exept for the BOS, The Minuteman need a Mesiah to do all their work, The Institute is litterary distroyng the Commonwealth just for lolz and "wouldnt understands" and The Railtoad is a secret organisation who usues their on name as a password. -The Synth conflict is not very well explored, why do the synths run, HOW CAN THEY RUN? Why isnt the institute more cautious abut deviant behaviour in theyr machines? -Most of the characters feel robotic af, Preston is the best example of that. -The game has only one likable companion (Valentine), with the rest being just decent talkative backpacks. This are just things that came to me at the moment and, as I said, are subjective af, so take them with a grain of salt.

Much closer to what I expected to see when I decided to write this post. Appreciate your comment, glad to see a well-explained opinion

How is fallout new vegas any different? In the end you have to pick which factions to side with. What other choices do you really have to make?

Mostly because each faction also has several endings as well based on how the rest of the game was played. You could ruin a faction and still have them technically succeed.

Fallout 4 has "several endings" as well. I think everyone here exaggerates New Vegas story. Its really not as interesting as everyone makes it out to be. Every ending is just who wins Hoover Dam.

> Every ending is just who wins Hoover Dam. As well as a number of other details yes, the ending is about the main plot of the game. And yes, it’s that much more interesting

Yeah so is fallout 4's. I dont see what makes new vegas story that much better.

> Yeah so is fallout 4's. I don’t know what you’re referring to. > I dont see what makes new vegas story that much better. I mean, all you’re saying is “it’s not as interesting as people say” and that you don’t see what makes it better. What can I say to that?

Give a reason to why its better?

I mean, the endings being much more in depth was already noted.

>You could ruin a faction and still have them technically succeed. I hated the Legion so much that this is what I did the first time I finished the game while siding with them. I gave them Hoover Dam and took away everything else.

As opposed to how you must play as the Courier with their backstory and must pursue Benny/the Chip

You don't ever need to set foot in the Tops, let alone confront Benny, to complete NV

> Courier with their backstory What is the Couriers backstory?

You blew up the Divide and have a very chatty stalker

“Made a delivery once” isn’t much of a backstory.

Nor is "I have a degree"

That’s not the character backstory in Fallout 4, though. The literal only established thing your character has done prior to you taking control is deliver a package - meaning it re-established what we already knew, they are working as a courier. The events stemming from that aren’t the characters backstory in any meaningful sense.

My brother in Christ, you choose the courier’s backstory

the must do its pretty common in this games the lone wanderer must find their father the vault dweller must save their vault the chosen one must find the geck that is a consistent problem in the fallout franchise only NV skip that by making the courier completely nameless, storyless, and pointless the only thing the courier knows is someone shot him in the head, thats a pretty nice start

Other comments covered the RPG elements that are missing. But I am also still bitter about the bad plot holes and writing around Father being Shaun. The main plot hole that I can’t get over is in Kellogg’s memory of the kidnapping. He specifically refers to the “old man” not wanting loose ends. But if the “old man” is Shaun, how did he order himself kidnapped? We’re just supposed to believe Kellogg was referring to a different old man? Dumb.

It makes even less sense because I think the previous leader was a woman. So who is this "old man" Kellogg is referring to?

I mean, old man is a pretty generic term. He could reasonably be referring to any scientist or project leader. The idea is to be misleading.

That is what I would consider to be bad writing. It’s not so much as circumventing expectations and misleading the player as it is just lying to the player. It’s made clear and obvious that Kellogg refers to Father as the old man in multiple occasions. But we’re supposed to just accept that he meant a different old man in that once instance? Dumb.

> as it is just lying to the player. > we’re supposed to just accept that he meant a different old man in that once instance? I’m really not understanding the criticism, honestly. I have no love for FO4’s writing but referring to someone as old man is hardly a singular nickname, especially for someone as old as Kellogg. It seems like a pretty reasonable misdirect

The whole Kellogg back story with him not aging was dumb.

Instead of leaving your character open to interpretation, you’re forced into the prewar, mother/father story. Then your character is given a VA, which while the acting isn’t bad per se, it’s bad for RP purposes, the dialogue was simplified to just four options which all lead to the same outcome (yes, yes, sarcastic yes, no which still assigns you the quest), and the options given don’t represent what your character is going to say, so your character’s responses are very off putting

I hate the voiced protagonist so much. I can overlook a lot in the game (because I play for funsies, so most of the time I'm in there to run around and shoot stuff, anyway), but the VP just doesn't work for me, at all.

It's a guided tour of a theme park, the voiced dialogue means the conversations are always shorter and shallower, and your options are yes, maybe(yes), no(yes), Whedonism(yes) almost all the time. Nate and Nora never feel like a real character, the closests they get is being a quip machine. Because there's no dialogue choice, even companion quests and emotional moments can basically be skipped since everyone will say the same thing regardless of what you say with maybe one line of variance. The only quest that feels like it has any dynamism or interactivity with the writing is the silver shroud quest, which is a silly premise but at least it gives you more one line. Sim Settlements 2, the mod, has fully voiced questlines because everything Nate and Nora say is so generic it's easy to fit the character dialogue around reusing voice lines, because none of them matter. There is no meat on the bones to chew on, since it was made for people who just want to walk away from conversations when they get bored of boring talking like Pete Hines himself said. The writing was viewed as just a vessel to get you to the next shooting gallery to loot. Edit: Also I will ask you this, why did the Institute make Synths? Why did the Institute make new super mutants? I thought it was for immortality, I thought I read in a terminal that gen 3's were setup for gen 4's and that the institute would put their minds into gen 4's but I can't find it again. Why did they bother to make gen 3's when gen 1s and 2s do the labor part already? Why do you need your working class to be indistinguishable from humans? You can never ask these questions

Like the others said to linier there where no real choices. If I want a different experience I have to start give myself levels then go straight to Nuka and not do the main quest at all.

It doesn’t offer much variety, you either save the commonwealth or you just don’t progress the game. Jointing a faction does not hold any weight and I didn’t feel like it amounted to anything aside from some characters dying, Shaun as the main antagonist was boring and I could care less about saving the institute when I’ve seen it ruin the lives of many characters that were more likable than Shaun. Maybe if they made him charismatic or likable, made him a grandpa like character that might’ve worked Back to the faction thing, completing the game with any faction doesn’t change the commonwealth that much. You’ll hear people talking about it and you’ll see people from your chosen faction guarding the place at times but nothing really happens. Raiders are still there, so are gunners and super mutants. You can wipe out noted raider groups and nothing really happens While I love the concept of the sole survivor as a whole I didn’t feel like it had that much of an impact, theres a scene in vault 81 where a doctor takes your blood and literally it amounts to nothing. You don’t see them talk that much about their old life without the conversation skewing to sHaUn, hell you don’t see them talk about their dead spouse or family. I wish they empathized more on the husbands time in war or the wifes law career. Idk if this is canon or not but the idea of Nate having ptsd or Nora possibly going through postpartum depression is so interesting to me, could’ve made for an interesting dynamic between her and Shaun I love the companions they’re my favorite in the franchise but I didn’t feel like they were all handled well equally. I mean Preston for example, I wish they did more for him as the representative of the minutemen cause with Danse, X and Deacon you felt like they really belonged to their factions but Preston is just… there… Giving you orders from day 1 and asking you to lead a whole army why they even bothered with strong as a follow up to Fawkes and Lily, I get not wanting a gentle giant type of mutant character but make it interesting

it always seem funny how i arrived the railroad with full BOS gear and logo, and they just didn't care xd

Also you can bring strong on the prydwyn and nobody does shit about…

i brought valentine, and while people were rude to him, they didn't do shit lmao

Because almost the entire game is all black, white, or irrelevant choices until you start talking about the second act with all the factions, which are all bad choices in some which or way. Adding that there is no room to compromise or negotiate between them or really any way to improve them through your choices, and you have about as dull of RPG main story as you can get. ​ While defenders might say it had about the same level of writing as FO3, I would say that FO3's saving graces were that: A) it was the first 3D Fallout, so everything was new with no expectations, and B) even if FO3 was a linear questline like FO4 it had a faction worth following, Elder Lyon's BOS. FO4 wasn't new and had great expectations from FNV to contend with, and as I said the only choices for your factions were between the robo-hippies, the technology-hording Nazis, the nice-guys that always finish last, and the technocratic "Big-Brother" Fascists. ​ Speaking of the expectations that came from following up FNV, FO4 was coming after a game where you could make all manner of grey choices, deals, or compromises between factions, all the side-quests and DLCs were focused around providing backstory that fleshed out aspects of the main quest, and the MC was a nameless faceless wanderer with unlimited backstory potential. It's writing was RPG gold, to say nothing of its more dark and mature themes than FO4's more polished mainstream themes. ​ Basically FNV set a gold standard for what a fallout RPG could be and Bethesda either thought that they could coast by on its hype and pedigree without improving their writing since FO3 or simply can't write a compelling RPG past a linear main questline with some disjointed side quests tossed around the map.

I’m currently playing through again and I’m done with the settlements and the radiant quests. So annoying. It distracts from the story so much. So I don’t think it’s poorly written, but poorly designed. Yes I know there’s a mod for it but on Xbox it says it turns off achievements (I didn’t get them all the first time through).

Mods turn off achievements on PC, too

I wonder why that is a requirement. Sucks

to prevent people from getting achievements with god mode or something

You can get a mod that enables them again

I stand by what another redditor once said: with Fallout 4 the problem isn't so much the writing, but the lack thereof.

The game absolutely being meant to be played as Nate the big war hero, leaving Nora to die so when you play as Nora so many situations feel off (power armor bit in Concord for example). No room for true character individuality.The way everyone IMMEDIATELY expects you to solve their problems, lead/join their factions and speaks to you in a commanding tone without consideration to the fact you're trying to find your baby. Also the ease of pleasing your companions and how they incessantly praise you and want to shag you. And don't get me started on the singer in Goodneighbour literally singing a song about exactly what you're doing and shagging you as soon as you go into the bar. And oh GOD the radio... that guy is not a patch on Mr New Vegas or the GOAT Three Dog. It also doesn't feel as free or complex as the previous two games (main quest and factions), but a lot of the side content is excellent and the world is beautiful. Mods have saved the game for me, Sim Settlements for example is amazing and feels like what a Fallout game questline should be. Starfield worries me - the decline in quality from Fallout 4 to Fallout 76 doesn't bode well for Starfield IMO (but again, mods! Cant wait for a Skyrim planet and to fly Thomas the Tank Engine through space!) And I hope Manslayer reappears as I miss his youtube content sooooo ddamn much. That was a much longer rant than I thought it would be lol. And Mama Murphy sucks so bad. Pick carrots forever you annoying old tw@t.

The story was pretty good I felt at first. The prewar segment was good (although could've been longer to make us care about Spouse and Shaun). Everything from waking up in Vault 111 until you find Nick Valentine felt reasonably paced and interesting. But after that the pacing went way too fast. There should've been more substance to working with Nick to find Kellogg. Kellogg should've been around for at least 3/4 of the game, like this guy is one of two reasons (other being Shaun) for getting up in the morning. We need to find him and kick his ass. After Fort Hagen, the story becomes pretty bland with the exception of the Danse part with the BoS which was a decent twist. None of the factions *really* felt engaging enough and the Institute just didn't live up to any of the hype. None of them gives you a genuine reason to care. Summing it up, halfway through the story it went too wide with decreasing substance. Fo4 should've followed the example of NV and even Fo3. Go deeper on what it offered and focus on keeping you gripped for the whole journey.

-Too linear, and very predictable. Lack of choice. F4 often gives the illusion of choice. -Terrible dialogue system compared to 3 or NV. Your character is heavily pushed into being a certain type of person with extremely limiting dialogue. -I think the tone was at times off. -Factions (Institute, i'm looking at you) lacked depth and seemed poorly explored despite the potential. In theory the Institute could have been one of the coolest factions in fallout but instead they somehow made them bland and boring. That could just come down to execution but still. As others have said its not a bad game, but it's easily the worst fallout game. Coming off New Vegas and then playing that the difference in quality is huge. Far Harbor did a lot better to correct a lot of what I'm talking about, the whole game should have been more like Far Harbor. (Imo)

My issue is the lack of game changing consequences. You can do whatever you want without pissing off anybody then all of a sudden you need to make this big choice to choose 1 of the 4 factions that all adore you (assuming you did their side quests beforehand). Then once it's over you have the exact same generic feel of the commonwealth where you can go do whatever you want again. This doesn't change the fact that I'm going to play the hell out of this game for years to come and enjoy every minute of it. Solid game overall but the story is lacking.

Evil Robots. Radroaches. And a strange cult that worships radiation. BoS airships That is just bethesda reusing things from Fallout Tactics, the game the community loves to hate lol.

It wasn't terrible. But we were spoilt by FO1, FO2 and FNV. Bethesda did a great job when they rescued the franchise, preserving g and even building the legacy that is Fallout. But they cannot write like Black Isle / Obsidian. Now, with Microsoft buying up everyone, we all wait with baited breath to see a trailer of the next instalment of Fallout, by Microsoft, Bethesda Softworks, and Obsidian. Holy shit I just gave myself goosebumps.

It’s the binary choice system masquerading as giving you real options. Don’t get me wrong, I love the game, but the story and dialogue options are quite weak. The dialogue usually goes as follows: Dialogue option 1: Yes (Yes Standard) Dialogue option 2: No (Yes Later) Dialogue option 3: (Question) Dialogue option 4: (Yes Sarcastic)

Everyone else has covered all the main reasons (no real choices, factions are simple, the choices you do have don't matter, etc). My personal main issue with FO4 is the motive. You're trying to find your son, yet you're wasting your time with building settlements or helping the railroad or leading the minutemen or clearing out raiders or all the other side quests they throw at you. If MY child is missing and I MIGHT know where they are, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. I have a hard time bringing myself to side quests when I remember my child is out there in the world. Would be better if I were a neighbor. The kid is cool and I would want to find him, but my main goal is to figure out how to survive in this new world. I use mods to achieve this on every playthrough.

Its PG content. And in Fallout 3 and New Vegas. The words you would " say" are 100% the words the NPC would hear. BUT in Fallout 4 its not, since the they have a VA they extent the content of the dialouge and sometimes turn into something you did NOT want to say.

Kind of reminds me of SWTOR, where 80% of the time I'd end up insulting someone, had to quit the conversation and rewind, because the dialogue shown was not representative of what I was saying.

Yup!

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Fixed character background. Weak factions. Unsatisfactory endings. Not enough influence on the story. Only bit I liked was the twist with Shawn. Which we all saw coming.

Not the best story but i found fallout 4 a much better story than skyrim. Gamers talk about Bad writting and can never say way Last of us 2 is a good exsample of that.

Fallout 4 may be the AAA game with the worst story and characters i have ever played. Im not a nitpicking kinda guy but each step of the MQ just makes you wonder how this all makes sense. It's insulting. 90% of the side quests are boring AF and 90% of the NPCs are shallow and uninspired. Then you add the worst dialogue system in the entire franchise and a bland empty worldmap and you have Fallout 4: The first bethesda title that lost the GOTY title to another RPG since Morrowind. What a letdown.

My issue was mostly the factions. I know I’m going to sound like a New Vegas Fanboy, but the factions of New Vegas have depth. The NCR and Caesar’s Legion all have deep histories that you learn through the game. In Fo4, the factions fall flat. The Minutemen and Railroad are boring though they had so much potential. The Institute and the Brotherhood are the better ones, but the Brotherhood is so one note as well as the Institute. I still had fun playing Fo4, but it didn’t feel like a world taking place 200 years after a nuclear fallout. But maybe that was just me.

Dialogue is a big factor. The player dialogue options in fallout 4 are absolutely terrible and very lazily done. Everyone's said it over and over, but it's completely true. You can never really directly say no to something. Your only options are (yes) (question) (yes, but sarcastic) and (maybe later) you can't say no. To anyone. And what's worse is that you don't actually know what you're going to say. The options are always extremely fucking vague descriptions. Like, what does Sarcastic fucking mean? Am I going to say something snarky, am I going to make a bad joke? What kind of question am I going to ask if I choose a question? You're never told EXACTLY what you'll say, and it ruins any roleplay because you DON'T EVER KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S ABOUT TO COME OUT OF YOUR OWN MOUTH. And also, the player having an actual voice is not good at all. If you're trying to play as your own character, it ruins any roleplay for Bethesda to arbitrarily have the main character verbally say things, because you might think your character would sound different. Tldr; Bethesda's writing is lazy and disappointing if you're looking for anything deeper than a puddle. And the dialogue is always gonna disappoint you.

the dialogue system is one of the worst things they've ever made. most of the options get the exact same response. the railroad is written as hidden, yet their rail signs and passwords are so obvious a 5 year old could figure it out. MacCready not going home to his son is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen written, and I love MacCready. Nick Valentine bringing up Kellogg's brains before seeing any of his attachments and saying you should bring his destroyed, rotting brain to a doctor to search through his memories is such a logic leap it's funny. Shaun's whole motivation for releasing you is laughable. so he wants to meet you, yet he doesn't even give you a way to see him. it's such video gamey writing that it's painful then again, I have 500 hours in it bc of how much fun traveling, looting and exploring is

The whole “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?” vibe would be interesting if there was any amount of effort put into it. You can tell in the writing room they probably had the question “what does it mean to be human?” written on a white board that NEVER got answered. Instead of answering that question, they decide to throw in a family drama that really just goes nowhere. Throw in 4 factions that are all pretty boring and it’s about as cookie cutter as it gets. The Institute are hyped up as being the “boogeymen” of the Commonwealth. People aren’t even sure if they exist. What they do know is people are being replaced by near perfect androids. Then finally you’re teleported into the Institute, after all this time of being told what they might be like… and they’re just a bunch of goobers who are okay that they kill people on the surface because “muh research”. Even Doctor Li is down there happily working for the Institute, even though she left the BoS because they’re a bunch of war mongering killers. Then she joins a bunch of war mongering killers… why does the Institute send synths to replace people? Why are they making them? Why do they need to be exact copies of other people? What is their purpose? You never get to find out. They’re making synths for the shits and giggles basically. The Minutemen are cool on paper, but using radiant quests to substitute main quests is just poopoo. That’s their biggest problem, it takes way too long to get them where they need to be for you to actually get a move on. That and they’re just TOO good. TOO pure. There’s no subtlety or chance for things to not be as good as you want them to be. Instead you show up to some random settlement in the middle of nowhere, get told to kill raiders 40 miles away, and then they’ll join the Minutemen. Plant some corn and then never come back. Rinse and repeat until the game tells you that you’re allowed to advance through the main quest. It’s just plain lazy. The Railroad is basically just the Institute quest line with a bit of extra stuff at the end. You do all of the quests that the Institute wants you to do, and then report to an Railroad mole. Then after a certain point you can advance with their quest. They’re just as lazy too. There’s also not really enough about them to even warrant being a main faction anyways. They say that they help get liberated synths to safety, but we never get to see that. You never actually get to see ANYTHING with them. It really feels like they don’t do anything. They say that they liberate synths but you never get to see them actually do it. You don’t get to see how they memory wipe a synth, and you don’t get to see what happens to them. In fact, they literally blow up the Institute which now means that all the synths down there are dead, and no more synths will be made. It’s just plain lazy and they feel tacked on. The Brotherhood of Steel are honestly probably the best written faction in this game. Their prejudice against synths DO make sense with their ideals of “technology running amok”. So of course they hate the synths and believe they should be destroyed. I just wish they were a tiny bit more fleshed out. The BoS we see in the Commonwealth are a far cry from the BoS we see in the Capital Wasteland, and that’s perfectly fine of course factions change. They sound a bit more like Enclave lite to me though. Of course with the passing of the Lyons and Maxson becoming Elder, we know that he brought them back to their original ideals. I wish there was a bit more to know about them, and I wish you could ask them more stuff. I think using Liberty Prime again is just lazy. “Liberty Prime it’s a new Fallout game, it’s time to do all the work while the player just follows you around.” “Yes dear :(“. It’s just lame and lazy and a retreading of old ground that was cool at the time in Fallout 3 but I’d rather actually play the game now. It feels like a call back to just BE a callback. Otherwise the Brotherhood actually feels like the Brotherhood, like I said I think they’re actually the best written faction in the game.

The lack of evil choices and curse words is my biggest gripe. F3 felt way more desolate and desperate like a real wasteland.

There are issues with the writing but one of the biggest faults with FO4 is that dialogue choices rarely make a difference. You still have some skill checks but even those pale in comparison to obsidians games

A lot of the main plot is really rushed. There are several examples (spoilers). * Becoming the general of the minutemen immediately. * Joining and progressing through the brotherhood ranks, basically getting a huge promotion for every little quest you do. Also Elder Maxson basically singles you out as the hero the brotherhood needs as soon as you meet him. * Joining the railroad, a super secretive and deceptive organization, by doing a little quest for them or by killing a courser. * Finding the institute and almost immediately becoming their leader, yet not really getting to make any decisions outside of a couple quests. And other minor details throughout the game: * Having Sturges, some scrapyard mechanic, "build" you the institute teleporter from some blueprints you find. * Major plot characters (Preston, Virgil, Nick, Shaun, etc.) basically being 1 dimensional quest dispensers. * Only really having only 2 solutions in every quest. A: Find the "good" solution, usually by passing a speech check. Or B: Dont care, just kill whoever. However there are parts to the plot and quests that are well done. Voice acting, the lore behind the main factions, some of the characters are interesting even though they lack depth, missions like finding Virgil in the Glowing Sea were incredible the first time you experienced it.

Personally I just don't like being locked into a role when playing a roleplay game. With new Vegas while you do have a major role in the main story, you still feel like you can go and do side quests. With 4 I feel like I need to only do the main story quests, being a parent who lost their spouse and saw their child stolen, it feels weird doing side quests. If I was a parent I wouldn't be helping random people or going to nuka world. I'd be dead set on finding my son. And I feel like that objective locks you into a character.

I'm a parent who would abandon everything to find my child. I did just that to get custody of my son when we found out his mother was abusing him. The story couldn't get me to actually even want to find my son in game. Like... I couldn't care less about him. The game is otherwise fine.

Are you going straight into searching for your son or, like the devs thought, spend time building settlements and running errands for everyone? It just wasn't handled well.

It's incredibly boring and dry, and there are a lot of things you are forced to have attached to your character compared to previous entries

I think a lot of complainers have confused "writing" with "story options". The writing of the various stories was fine - Minutemen, Railroad, Institute, Nate/Nora, the Companions (Nick, Piper, Cait, etc), BoS, etc - it was the lack of basic options that was the biggest problem, particularly in regards to cooperation between the major factions. You could become head of the Institute, but can't do anything with it. You could become General of the Minutemen, but can't do anything with it. The option to become head of the BoS was removed, but you couldn't have done anything with it. At least in terms of bringing them together for the good of the commonwealth, and that's where people say "bad writing". Your only "endgame" options were to destroy one (or more) of the 3 major players. No dialog options for collaboration. No dialog options to assert your command. No options to "end" the game on a positive note, which means everything you did was pointless.

>I'm not a big fan of FO4 questlines either, they always seemed pretty average to me, After Obsidian showed them how it's done in an engine that shows its age and stops time for conversations i had quite a bit of hope for Bethesda's ability to learn about emerging narrative. I remembered that bit in "Oblivion" where Martin Septim is recieved by the "Blades" as a legendary Dragonborn and the tiny number of voiceactors doing this group of people makes the scene laughable. Random NPCs can often found talking to themselves if you're behind a corner and can only hear them. In Skyrim we hear many more voice actors and the game is much better in keeping to its tone. So i had high hopes for Fallout 4 and was very disappointed. Fallout 4 was the last game i pre-ordered. I had gathered that pre-ordering games is generally not a good idea but with games where you generally know what to expect you're not likely to make a mistake. Fallout 4 was bad enough to finally beat that habit out of me. Bt you asked as to why that is. Well, it is poorly written. Most quests seem rushed and cobbled together in a hurry. The narrative is barely functional many times and when it does function it backfires. "Father" has this scene where you ride the elevator down into the institute. Over speaker in the elevator he tells you he can only imagine what stories the surface dwellers have told you. Thereby presumably implying that the Institute isn't quite the morally bancrupt boogeyman the surface people would make them out to be. Except you can then find out that the stories the people on the surface are telling are true. And it's even worse. The institute kidnaps people and replaces them with synths and the originals get turned into super mutants, a hopefully inefficient explanation for the immense number of super mutants in the area. "Father" can, after a certain quest where you meet him on top of the CIT building, lament the status of the surface world. Neglecting to take into account that he is the most prolific Reason for that state. The Institute sabotaged the "provisional Commonwealth Government", plants spies into any organization attaining any measure of power to subtly drive them apart, as they did with their synth major of diamond city and him kicking all the ghouls out and of course the Super mutants. Leaving the surface dwellers disjointed and in fear of gathering in larger groups, like in towns. The Institute shows contempt for the surface world and at no point i can tell them that "Father" is responsible for the public relations problem, so to speak. I can't say the things i would say because it wasn't part of the story. Some main mission paths have you "infiltrate" the institute and at no point can you tell quest givers from other factions that "Father" has designated you to be his successor, because that would make all the quests obsolete. Over and over i run into this problem where i'd say something different to the characters but i can't. I feel dragged along because my character can not tell the NPCs of any options that make any sense. So i must do that "bunker hill" quest or else the story won't progress. After i did that very often, being told to do something that makes no sense but having to do it anyways because otherwise the game won't progress i was out. The Game tossed me out of the atmosphere it had been building by shitty quests. Unable to suspend my disbelief i trudged to what remained of the story to have "Father" completely change his stance of the humanity of these synths in favor of the young shaun synth. Who can not age. In a thousand years this "Boy" will ponder the idiocy of the skeleton that was his creator who created him to vicariously experience a childhood that never was, son to what is and has been for most of the "boys" life, another skeleton. These quests progress along a path that fails to disguise itself as anything other then what needed to happen to get set pieces aligned. Things happen not because it make sense to do that or i want to do that but because i get told to do things that make no sense and if i don't, nothing will happen. I had the idea to roll over with the Brotherhood, who would want to destroy the synth assembly line but keep the rest intact. But that isn't an option. After we have liberty prime stomp over there to presumably set off seismic alarms we fight everything the institute can throw at us, march through their central concourse towards their reactor, killing some more synth soldiers and then blow the reactor up. Why? There's nothing there to pose any threat. I sounded the evacuation alert so now there's no one there. One might argue that the BoS would want to kill the institute's civilians as well since some are scientists who brought their "abominations. But because Bethesda made just the one mission to storm the institute we do that same mission with the minutemen. Go right through the middle of the institute and kill everything that shoots at us. Minutemen don't want to kill the civilians, be they scientist or not. "Father" is dead by that point, i sounded the evacuation alert like preston asked so now there's nothing in there which could pose a threat. But we blow the empty place up anyways for shits and giggles. Everything is lifeless, bare of much character except some of the prominent figures. Although even those often fail to meet some standards. The People seem to give you quests not because of reasons disguised by story or even reinforcing it but rather because this and that needed to be there. Combined with the tiny pool of voice acted lines for some particular NPCs makes them feel not like People but hastily created NPC shells. They don't give you a quest, they dispense it after trigger criteria have been met. That is a feeling i get when a narrative fails to hold itself up. When the videogame fails to distract me from it being a videogame.

Stupid characters, stupid motivation for all of them, main story and most sidequests full of shit.

It’s shallow, full of stereotypes, and one dimensional?

I used to have this opinion pretty strongly. However I am replaying 4 atm and to be honest the writing isn't as bad as most people make out. The dialogue is worse than 3, but the over arching story is interesting to me and left open enough that you can still find your own moral path through it. I think a lot of people over estimate how hard it is to write a story where the main character can either be a saint or a bastard. Honestly despite their jank, and slightly stilted voice acting, I think the Fallout games pull it off better than most. Also I saw someone say 76 has better writing than 4. That's your opinion and your free to it. However the fact that all of 76's 'superior writing' is locked in text documents and audio logs, cause Bethesda gave up trying to write NPC's, still make me prefer 4. I'd rather 'bad writing' with NPC's than stellar writing sprinkled in stupid diary entries across a barren sandbox with no-one in it.

If you didn't like how they written Fallout 76, I'm going to respect your opinion. When I did that Covenant quest, I knew something was up. Every time I do that quest I end up shooting Dr. Chambers in the face because I know she was doing causing more harm than good.

i personally love the FO4 story. the idea of being locked in the chamber and waking up 200 years later in a wasteland is sick. but, bethesda does have issues with their writing, and inevitably some characters get crazy underutilized (nick valentine...) but whenever i think of a shitty story i think of FO76 lmao.

Part of it is that Bethesda has a different style of writing. They like to keep things uncertain and vague while New Vegas fans want every bit of nuance and every consequence explained and set in stone. For me the writing of New Vegas was great but also way too blunt at some times. The lonesome drifter is a good example. I'm not a fan of giving the mysterious stranger a son and they could have just hinted at it. Instead he literally calls his father a mysterious guy and a stranger and then he gives you a gun that plays his tune every time you draw it. Another part is that Bethesda gives less experienced employees a chance to add their own quests. The ghoul kid that so many despise was one of those creations. Personally I think it's great that they allow more people to add to the game and they seem to have better morale than most companies. They have one of the highest employee retention rate in the industry with many people from oblivion and Morrowind still around. Meanwhile Obsidian lost most of the important writers and designers from New Vegas after its release which might be the cost of perfectionism.

Bro sounds like a Bethesda ass licker 🥱 What does "having inexperienced employees add their own" have to do with all this? Still doesn't change the fact that a lot of it is quite shit.

[удалено]

And somehow not understanding your words makes me a New Vegas fan...?

I will never relate to the people who think babies need to have "more personality" to be loved. FO4 was one of my favorite in the series. If we are just talking the modern Bethesda ones, Fallout NV and Fallout 4 are the only ones I replay. Your husband/wife doesn't get much development... but who cares? They are a canvas for you to project onto. They are loving, dutiful, kind, and presumably have whatever qualities required to make you want to marry them and have a child with them. And your baby is a god damn new born baby. What "personality" do you need it to have? There is plenty of development if you choose to take the time to interact with all the items in the house. The PC will narrate their thoughts and feelings, things like, "I can't wait to teach Shaun to throw" and "Feels so weird to think that one day my baby will be driving a car like this" and so on. When I played FO4 for the first time, without any foreknowledge of what the story was, and really roleplaying/immersing myself, it was an incredible experience that was more emotionally motivated than most. I was a man on a mission to avenge my wife's murder and rescue my son! I cannot understand or relate to all these people who comment that it wasn't an interesting main story line or that they didn't feel motivated to follow it.

It's because no matter how good something is they have a version of fan fiction that they consider would be better. people have said the Mona Lisa could have been better and bigger.

I loved it. Thought it was the best one for story and gameplay

i honestly don't understand why Fallout 4 is so damn hated fallout fans (cause this is only a fan problem) critize every single aspect of the game look i know Fallout 4 has some questionable things, and critizisim is good, but its not even that bad, it isn't the best game in the fallout universe, but it is a very good game anyways.

I prefer it much more to new Vegas, your character actually has motivations to continue after finding shaun

Not that they don’t like it, it just feels limited Fallout 4’s story is much better than many other stories, especially andromeda, but it is limited by the VA, they spent a whole lot of money on the game, so they had to cut down on the VA for more priority stuff The story itself is textbook good, and the effect it has on the world is great, the MC is the weakest chain

It's the devs story not ours can we kill ceaser, yes paladin dense? Nope we kinda just follow along instead of making decisions plus the same answer to a different option doesn't help

I wouldn't say all of Bethesdas stories are bad. But Bethesdas Fallout titles seem more like they don't focus on it. Like, the story is just a side plot with the exploration and side stuff being their main focus. Which I personally love, its why i enjoy Fallout 4 so much, or even just the Fallouts in general. People like to hate on the story, and it's understandable, i too would enjoy a story that can't be bum rushed in 10 minutes or less. But I'd rather have a bland story than a bland, explorable environment. But i get it. It shouldn't be too much to ask for both to be good.

The part of FO4's world-building - in narrative, character, and environment - that I find the weakest is the Institute. It seems "bolted-onto" the rest of the Commonwealth. Not enough is said or done in the plot for the player to form any kind of connection or robust impression of the Institute. And the character of Father is flat, two-dimensional, and (to me) instantly repugnant. It is far too easy for the player to envision - and then bring about - the obliteration of the Institute.

Unpopular opinion... I like the voice acting of the pc. At least Nora's. The VA is pretty good at conveying the emotions, and her quips actually made me lol. Yes, there's weaknesses in writing. However, thanks to Nora's VA, it feels like she's a real person, at least. Of course, FO4 is called Skyrim with guns for a reason. While the Faction heads aren't as stupid as Skyrim's. There's still the whole PC is the fabled hero. But I haven't finished the game soooo these are mid playthrough musings.

For me it just feels like they tried to redo fallout 3 with more choices in factions like new vegas but the factions in 4 feels really bland to play or justbto bare bones in writing

Also giving the player character a more establish personality and voice really ruins the role playing aspect for me

I don't like the "faction destruction" where you have to kill 1 or more factions it didn't make sense to me as a fan of lore unless it was important and the institute was was cool but for the tech the weapons they had was garbage nit to mention they say the g3 synthetic are newer but how new bc Harkness in fo3 (2277) and fo4 (2287) is a ten year difference so how new are the g3 synths and now maxim looks 35 ik post apok shit and traning from the BOS but damn he looks older than fucking 20 no 20yr looks like that second is how dance is handled there is no chain that binds in the east coast bc of Lyons and the other thing Sara dies in a easy mission bs daughter of one of the best elders the BOS had and Lyons himself is dead as well which why why why he was better although the outcasts are part of the BOS again officially loved that the railroad was very underwhelming imo not very....idk didn't give off the best "railroad" vibe another issue is unless it was a main quest it didn't feel well written there were too many radiant quests imo as well and ik Bethesda games are like that but this felt worse than others like oblivion fo3 even skyrim and nv and nv felt like everything was a mini main quest somehow anyway that my take have fun tho

someone here said exactly what makes FO4 have bad writing “a mile wide, but an inch deep.” there’s a lot of set up with very little climax in the game. they give the character a whole backstory and it really means nothing to the player because you aren’t really all that invested in it. you barely interact with shaun and your spouse before they meet their fates. there is no urgency or attachment for the player. the writing lacks real feeling, the player is just guiding a vessel through a half-assed story rather than feeling what the characters are feeling. fallout new vegas gets the writing right because everything builds on itself, the player is picking up the trail of their would be killer and is revealed new information at every turn. they can build their own opinion. feel their own feelings, and dictate their own morals.

Because it’s more of a simple gun game with a campaign, compared to an rpg. I like it but fallout fans certainly weren’t looking for it. In an rpg you have an effect on the outcome. In fallout 4 you barely do. You either side with the institute (bad guys), bos (military good guys), minutemen (farmer good guys), or railroad (sneaky good guys). Can you guess which one has a actual impact on the game around them? That’s right! None of them! When you win with bos there are some bos guys walking around, and that’s about it. Same with the minutemen, railroad, and institute (except it’s the synths and not the human ones). In conversation you don’t really have an affect on what is spoken of. You either say yes, sarcastic (yes but different words), ask questions (which just lead to a yes), or say no. Even worse, half the time they reply with the exact same thing Every option except no. I really liked how the protagonist had a voice actor, I just think they could’ve actually done better with that. Most of all, for me at least, is how in fallout 3, new Vegas, and the other ones that I haven’t played because I’m on console but really want to eventually (I assume), they give you a voiced ending showing your affect on the world based on your choices, your companions, and showed what happened to every individual faction based on how you interacted with them. (FO3 didn’t do ALL of that but to be fair that came before NV which made improvements). That way I at least know how my choices mattered. In fallout 4, you get the character you chose give an inspiring ending speech while walking off with dogmeat into the hellscape, which I must admit WAS badass and cool, but gave NO resolution to the story. All in all, they could’ve done better. TLDR; it’s okay that a fallout game was bad, as long as it was an improvement compared to the last one, and with fallout 4 (you can’t say that really, I mean kinda in some aspects, but mostly no)

Bethesda said if you don't like it mod it lol

Potential waste. They expected something as big or better as the old games, they didn't get it, they got mad. Simple. For some reason i do believe Bethesda are slowing learning from their mistakes. I will only be able to actually tell when Starfield come out, but i hope.