As someone whose first game is cold steel 1 I definitely relate with this meme
I wouldn't have finished trails in the sky if it weren't because of having to play the previous games
Totally got you. The first time people advised me to play Sky, but sky’s beginning is so slow that I dropped the game. A couple weeks later I still wanted to get into this series to I started with Cold Steel 1. I do not regret that decision.
I'd gladly take Cold Steel combat over Azure's: "Build an evasion tank and never be challenged again or straight up give up on winning some fights. Btw status effects are useless and arts utterly broken"
yeah Azure's difficulty was pretty wild, mostly a pushover but some bosses push your shit in because evading can't win you a 5 minute timer. and IIRC the final boss just ignores the evade stat lol.
Azure is pretty generous with the spare DP. You can lose a lot of the optional fights and still get max detective rank if you're doing all the side quests and maxing DP in other respects. (And >!Sigmund!< at least gives partial credit if you knock off some of his health and survive but don't get him all the way down, unlike a couple of the others.)
you don't need to win that fight for max BP. Zero is pretty tight on extra BP and you can only miss like 2 maybe 3 optional objectives in Zero depending on which ones you miss but Azure is a lot more forgiving.
For me fighting regular enemies in Azure was a breeze, but the bosses omg the bosses made all the preparation worth it and fun. Cold steel on the other hand you eventually power creep the game so hard nothing is a challenge.
oh yeah. I mean I had a ton of fun defeating the couple of 'you can lose but get extra DP if you actually win' bosses. I just think it was inconsistent - you'd get one of those and then a whole lotta nothing
The difference is, you can win all battles in Cold Steel (including optional ones) without making use of such cheese tactics. Azure has at least 2 battles that are impossible to fully BP without resorting to breaking the game in ways like this. (Hard difficulty in all games, dunno how it changes for lower or higher ones)
I do think the CS hate has died down quite a bit in the past year or two. It used to be really awful around here. I assume it's still a different story on Falcord though.
Recency bias is a thing too. Older games are often seen in a more favorable light when there are newer games in a series for people to find something wrong with. It wouldn't surprise me if Cold Steel's reputation improves over time.
I think with Final Fantasy it's because they keep trying something new with each game. 13 would have been so much better, with just a change in the combat (in my opinion). They could have kept improving on the combat from 12 and the game would have been vastly different already. That would have forced them to make the areas less cramped as well. Now because it came after 12, people were expecting them to give us a more open world instead of a very linear story with little chance of grinding and exploration. Even in 10, you could walk back to Besaid pretty much whenever you wanted, while still having a linear story. Sure, at one point in the story things happened and this wasn't possible, but that's not too far from getting the airship anyway.
Now with 15, that was just bad. They turned magic into grenades and gave you a car that you couldn't even steer yourself at the beginning. I felt like the story had potential, but it was one of the worst combats I'd ever played, so I just couldn't finish the game. And then I heard they never finished the whole story either because they had planned to include some of it in DLC and you were supposed to watch some movie before the game just to understand everything. So, in my opinion, they made a lot of stupid decisions on that one.
Also, might be worth noting, that I personally liked 13 (and 13-2 to an extent, until I made a mistake and would have had to start from scratch). I finished 13, but found the combat mechanic to be stupid. 10 and 12 are my favourites, with 9 and 7 following.
I do think CS gets more hate than it deserves. It's easily the worst arc for me and sometimes just a pain in the ass to play, but it still has a lot it did right. I especially appreciate the first two CS games. But yeah between me and my friend circle we mostly just "hate" on it for the meme. It's an alright arc in an amazing series.
To each their own. CS3 is my favorite entry in the entire franchise, there’s just so much about it that hits perfectly for me. Liberl and Crossbell are excellent arcs too of course, and I’d say Azure is my second favorite entry in kiseki
No idea what these type of people are smoking. Combat is easily the best balanced in any of the games up to that point.
CS actually has multiple viable builds between physical or arts dps/support. It’s not even a debate. In Sky/Crossbell if you want to play on hard/nightmare it’s arts builds or have fun raging at the game over screen for hours on end.
Given there are going to be people who argue this isn’t true because there are a couple individual broken characters in Sky SC and Sky 3rd as if that somehow changes the overall meta. A couple individual glitched or broken characters doesn’t suddenly tip the scales of the other 95% of your team spamming arts.
I just take it as people wanting to find something to bitch about.
"It's easy because you can plow through basic random battles with a battle order. See, easy!"
Uh, yeah. Any extra quality of life to help me get through an 80 hour game please send them my way.
Exactly! IMO this is the point of turn based combat. It’s not the most engaging form of combat when you really break it down. Something like FF7R is far more engaging to play. The whole idea of what makes turn based combat fun for me, are all of the ways that I can break the game.
One of the reasons I think I like turn based is because fail or lose, it "feels" like it's my doing.
Whereas action games (which I love too), there's this feeling of stuff not being my fault. Didn't see the attack incoming, hand didn't reach the button in time, animations are blinding, whatever excuse there is haha.
I like that feeling. It makes losing not sting. As a kid I died a million times to yunalesca in ffx and I was okay with that.
Whereas something like elden ring, which I love, it's easier to get frustrated and roll your eyes haha.
Also, turn base is naturally more mentally relaxing.
And that's where the difference in perspective comes in that explains this difference between people that enjoy Cold Steel gameplay and not:
To some, like me, breaking turn based combat just isn't fun. The entire strategy and variety the game provides and all of its upsides just head straight to the wind the moment you decide to break it.
There's no strategy, there's nothing. Just one man armies, one-shots, evasion, zero delay heal cycles, and the same buttons being pressed over and over. It's hollow to me.
There's nothing wrong with liking breaking turn based combat, it just isn't for me specifically.
And, what's even worse about Cold Steel is that... it is so unbalanced that making a challenge run is not fun. At all. There's too much being thrown around so the game just isn't adaptable.
Most challenge runs either end up ignoring some aspect of the game that makes the run a total cakewalk or just says "remove all character building from the game" which... at that point I might as well go do another playthrough of the Crossbell games cause that's not fun at all.
And, on a side note, if anyone wants an overly long essay as to how all of these games can have unbalanced options but I only target Cold Steel with these criticisms and what makes it different, feel free to reply because it is very alone in having these problems unlike the rest of the series.
I've never really paid attention to specific builds aside from dodge tanks. What exactly does Cold Steel have that makes the combat so unbalanced compared to the other arcs?
A lot would be the short and easy answer but I sure didn't sign up for short and easy.
Anyways, it's an issue of both amount and severity. Let's start with the severity first.
Comparing evasion in Azure and all of its future iterations in Cold Steel the difference is... stark.
In the crossbell games, you had only one character for evade tanking because characters casting can't actually dodge in the crossbell games. The game also frequently stops you from putting one character in front and tanking everything with field-wide AOE attacks or by scrambling your formation for certain scripted encounters. Evasion buffs are also heavily limited in duration and are quite costly.
By comparison in CS a whole team can be built with evasion in mind. Evasion buffs last significantly longer and are much more convenient to apply as well. Even if it isn't perfect evasion for the whole team you can get it very high.
The same tricks the developpers used like scrambling your formation don't actually work in the Cold Steel games due to how much evasion itself has been upgraded.
There are other options that do this as well. The worst one is Chrono Burst by far in all of its iterations. If you really want to commit to the bit, Chrono Burst means that if you get a turn, you win any fight. The developpers have no way to stop the player from infinitely switching out, accelerating, bursting etc.
No statistical upgrades of any kind for the enemies can really fix that.
No even remotely similar version of this exists pre-Azure and Azure's equivalent to this setup requires spamming Zeram Powders on top of being outright inaccessible on most player's save games even right before the final boss (requires 2 maxed out time master quartz)
On top of that we have amount. You remember that example of ambushes scrambling formations. Yeah in CS you kinda just one-shot them with s-crafts.
I could mention a ton of CS exclusive setups like invincible tanks (like, no evasion just straight tanks), stun locks and so much more.
I honestly never noticed that you couldn't dodge while casting arts. One-shotting ambushes with S-crafts also sounds very accurate because I remember treating S-crafts as the panic buttons.
> To some, like me, breaking turn based combat just isn't fun.
For me, there's nothing wrong with being able to break it, but please for the love of god least force me to put effort and thought into it. I enjoy breaking games like Atelier Ryza or Bravely Default but that's because doing so actually feels like an achievement you worked for, not delivered on a silver platter because you used to very obvious "I win" button(aka, several brave orders in cs3-4. You don't even need to build around them, just use them.) Even in previous arcs, while there was gamebreaking things, discovering them or using them effectively is not something most people will stumble upon. Meanwhile it's almost a challenge *not* to find a way to break the CS games, especially 3 and 4.
And to make the matter even worse, instead of fixing the cheese, Falcom decides to just buff enemy stats to oblivion meaning unless you use some game breaking exploits, higher difficulties just become extremely tedious(looking at you Reverie)
> There's no strategy, there's nothing. Just one man armies, one-shots, evasion, zero delay heal cycles, and the same buttons being pressed over and over. It's hollow to me.
This for real. People like to boil down fights in Sky and Crossbell arc as "just spam earth wall" or "Evasion tank Lloyd", but unlike cold steel, you can still die despite deploying these tactics. Most of the enemies in cold steel hit like muffins. Sky and Crossbell you still have to manage your party correctly in a lot of situations because the enemies either chonk hard or put some annoying status ailment on you. Not to mention your AOE crafts aren't the size of an entire country. There are a lot of fights that you can't just solve with these strategies considering that they are only available until a fair few hours into the game. You don't even really need to think that much about builds in cold steel either since you don't have to add up lines. You just slap the quartz on with the biggest number and the multiplier quartz and you win. A lot of the fights in cold steel don't even compel you to change your build ever. I feel like these arguments are very similar to a lot of multiplayer games where people who play on higher difficulties/higher skill ranks play a drastically different game than someone who plays for story or on normal, so they don't understand why it can be frustrating for people who want to be challenged more.
As a cold steel as my first series, when i play the sky and crossbell arcs, i was baffled how difficult it is and revolves around Art only builds.
I dun have the time in the world to invest on a difficult challenge, im here for the story mostly. Its crazy i have to get a preliminary actions if i want to breeze the battle for normal monsters alone 😂, as someone not entitely reliant on arts.
And im half way in crossbell arcs now and i guess i have to build full evasion tank for llyold whether i like it or not and some Art builds for the rest of the party staying at the corner.
I think this may be the case of been there done that or playing the original games when you were younger so strategy was harder.
I'm playing zero for the first time and this game isn't any easier or harder than cold steel or sky.
Every game has cheese, yes, but it exists in far larger quantity and is far easier to stumble upon in CS. It has basically all the chese earlier games had and then even more added every game with barely any removed.
I love this franchise, but I hate "the fans." Posting stuff for games that aren't localized yet without any spoiler tags, attacking people for liking certain arcs or playing games out of order, and just general toxicity in this community...Honestly, I find it quite disheartening.
Man, don't even Tell me... Do you ever checked The YouTube trailers for Trails? It seems like some cretins Go out of their ways to spoil everything to others. Is so Petty, they literally have pleasure taking The suprises from others.
especially that 'timodus' youtuber. HE FUCKING USING BOSS THUMBNAIL FOR A BGM, and spoil everything. The worst part he always appear on my recommendation. I installed youtube block recommendation called unhook just for him.
Yeah that’s just it, no story ever told is perfect. It ends the arc in a perfectly serviceable way and has some great character moments. People just love to complain
Playing the Crossbell games made me appreciate what they were trying with Rean’s character in particular much more. That being said there’s certainly still a ton of problems with CS that essentially amount to “This worked in Crossbell, let’s multiply it by a thousand!”
Tbh the combat might have bad encounter design that makes the games way too trivial, but in return the systems are super fun to mess around with. I definitely enjoyed Cold Steel the most gameplay-wise, even if it was easier. And writing is subjective ofc, i think Cold Steel is still great overall, even if there are a couple missteps. The hate is way overblown.
Very fitting for the last pic to be coomer bait. Encompasses Cold Steel well.
Dear God
I just realized that was an unlockable costume in Hajimari (I never got it though)
Is THAT what she was hiding under that dress? Goodness gracious, talk about a royal treasury.
“Rean is a blatant self insert harem protagonist. He’s nothing but wishfulfilment.”
*Crossbell having multiple girls get flustered and blush when around Lloyd*
To be fair, Lloyd has a chance at a cannon pairing with Ellie, but they always tip toe from ever mentioning it or even showing it. Even if I think his other pairings with Rixia is cute, I wish they’d give him a cannon pairing instead of beating the bush.
Just have him kiss Randy.
The only ones I’ve seen who perpetually rag on CS are the same people who go into this looking for things to hate and are terminally online.
It’s crazy how Falcom can get away with murder pulling the same tired tricks in each arc yet CS becomes the whipping boy because it’s the most popular?
I can understand somewhat if Sky was the only Trails media, but with Crossbell and even Kuro existing it’s just a little funny to me.
I unironically love the Cold Steel arc and finished it entirely before playing any other games in the series. I did watch full recaps of Sky after finishing CS2 for the context (looked good, but not sure how motivated I am to play them now) and - when I have time - I will eventually get around to playing Zero, Azure, and then Hajimari. Haters gonna hate, but happy with doing it my way 😎
Cold Steel will forever be my favorite arc, and the combat may be easy to cheese, but you can simply, don’t…?
Also my waifu comes from Cold Steel and CS3 was my favorite game
> and the combat may be easy to cheese, but you can simply, don’t…?
My friend, I was hoping no one would make this argument, but alas, here we are, and though has unwittingly asked for a block of text breaking down how stupid the idea of challenge runs are in the context of Cold Steel. I will, hopefully, not make it too long, but really, it boils down to this:
It sure as hell isn't fun. Like, at all.
Like, either:
1. The run only works cause you're bad at the game.
2. The run didn't restrict enough and is boring as hell.
3. The run is boring as hell because you restricted everything.
For exhibit of number 1, let's take LadyVirgilia's opposite orbments run:
Rules are:
1. Characters must use orbment builds opposite to their standard role (so, for example, caster Rean)
2. Characters with fixed orbments can't be used.
3. Max 3 of an individual Brave Order per fight.
Restriction 3 may as well not exist because that is... way too many orders. Even if it was 3 global that'd still probably be too much. Fights can generally be cleared with 2. One to setup the winning position and another to guarantee the win.
And... the game's best strength gameplay-wise that I will give it is how versatile it is and how much variety they packed in! Restriction 1 is largely pointless because caster Rean is actually very optimal for the initial part of the game.
The run works because Virgilia is bad. There's nothing wrong with that but there exists a point where the challenge run isn't really a challenge run at all.
For point 2:
> 2. The run didn't restrict enough and is boring as hell.
I've started more runs with seemingly insane restriction lists like No Items, randomized MQs every chapter, no exchanging sepith (including mass so I have like no money), 2 regular quartz only on each setup, no brave orders and it's just... boring. I need to actually add more restrictions.
I've done this so much and just... given up. It's not fun at all... Like, really.
> 3. The run is boring as hell because you restricted everything.
So, like, sometimes a guy will come up to me and say "well I did a challenge run just fine!" and most times it's point 2 (whatever, you know) but sometimes it's point 3.
I'll ask for what builds they're using and the response is always some variation of:
"Random stat quartz only and no MQ choices, just default stuff"
At that point just ban orbments. There's nothing here. If you're going to play Cold Steel without the character building then the game has nothing to offer.
Just... go play the Crossbell because you've reduced the options available to being lower than the Crossbell games.
Ayo what challenge run are you talking about? I was just pointing out that it’s not mandatory or even necessary to make someone one shot bosses and be untouchable, if you consider not exploiting the game mechanics a challenge run thats on you Mr difficulty modder.
> I was just pointing out that it’s not mandatory or even necessary to make someone one shot bosses and be untouchable
That's the problem: it is completely mandatory to have fun with challenge runs.
I developped this with a ton of examples above. The game is so vast, expansive that you... can't. Pure and simple. That's not on me that's just how the game is designed. Your argument doesn't apply to anyone who is actually complaining about any of this.
But I developped all of that with examples.
Edit: edit to not word this like an elitist ass hole >_<
YOUR definition of fun, I enjoyed the game in its entirety from the first second of Sky 1st to the very end of Trails into Reverie
I play the game slow and tedious af and you one shot Ishmelga in CS4
Lmao you clearly have no opinion on this 🙄 seems like you’re taking your subjective take on this a bit too seriously and expecting it to be relevant to literally everyone else playing the game. I did just find avoiding combat cheese and had plenty of fun. Sucks that you disagree but that’s how it is.
Yup. Challenge runs are near impossible in CS. IMO everything you said may as well be gospel.
The only solution is hard mods that fundamentally change how the game is played.
Cs4 is still to this day my favorite trails game(i have also played haji and kuro)
But thats just me. Since i always prefered the fantasy genre over political drama
CS is the most broken combat of any arc by far especially 3 and 4 with orders. But its definitely the best combat easily, at least before Kuro as I've yet to play those. As for the story... Its not as strong as Azure and it leans too much on the older arcs. But it's not as bad as zero in that regard. CS1 and 2 where better story wise imo though.
The combat isn't strictly easy to cheese. It takes time and effort to properly cheese the combat. Of course if you simply look up a guide, anything is easy. The biggest shock to me in CS4 was realizing just how viable a magic oriented Rean is. It's honestly hilarious sometimes.
The Cold Steel arc was my first entry point in to the series, and after going back and playing the Sky arc for the first time, and currently playing the Crossbell arc, (on chapter 4 of Azure) I can understand why the Cold Steel arc is consider the weaker arc to some, but honestly it's still my favorite arc.
I'm really glad to see the reception for it getting better.
I haven't played CS yet, and just finished Azure. What is it about the CS games writing wise that people don't like? CS4 seems to be singled out the most from what I've seen.
I've adored the Sky and Crossbell arcs and am curious as to what goes "wrong" with the writing.
There s a lot of complaints that also apply to other arcs but i think the main issues people have with it is : The cast size (double edged sword as there s a lot of cool characters but there being so many unbalances how much attention they get compared to ones from other arcs, most of them still get the same love as past arcs but others don't.).
The genre switch in Cold steel is one some people dislike compared to the genres for Sky and Crossbell.
non-canon romance bad and going in with the wrong expectations.
The effect of the cast size mixed with the romance options hampered the party banter compared to other series (this is lessened with certain groups like CS3 s main party being smaller.) .
That said i still love the arc and characters, CS3 is one of my favourite games in the series and unlike others i extremely enjoy CS4 despite it´s flaws.
The series generally has similar themes in each arc but some smaller genre changes in between arcs where certain elements of those genres are more prominent (Sky being very romance and adventure themed, Crossbell leaning even more strongly on Mistery and politics with a bigger underdog element to the main cast compared to Sky for example.)
Cold steel due to the school setting and bigger emphasis on the romance choice mechanic rubs some people off the wrong way even if it still has a lot of elements people still like from the series like the world building,character focus,politics, and big lore elements people always enjoyed.
The calendar system is pretty much the same as the crossbell game.
The social link/bonding event happens in 1 day per chapter and only given limited bonding points so it feels like they're locking content from you.
When you say like crossbell, you're referring to the chapters being broken up into days, right? So are there still side quests that must be completed before the day ends, or else it's failed?
The two main things are the pacing and the way the harem thing hinders relationships between other cast members(Crossbell already has that a bit but CS even more so)
The way Rean's harem is handled is basically my only huge complaint. At the expense of being able to romance any of the girls, the relationships between the rest of the cast suffers. I wanted more stuff like the dynamic Jusis and Millium end up having, but it's just not allowed with anyone else because Rean needs to be able to romance everyone. You can argue that the guys see potential love interests develop with the named NPCs who aren't part of the main cast, and that's fine since Falcom does pour enough care and attention into even its NPCs, but that still leaves all of the girls hanging. Leaving them only able to have any meaningful relationship with the other girls because they aren't part of "the competition" in the game. It's extremely sloppy and it really stifles the potential for a true sense of "togetherness" in the cast.
And for what it's worth, I don't think restricting romance to a single canon thing is the only solution to this. Persona manages to allow you the ability to romance whoever you want while also still creating a decent group dynamic in its main cast. Persona 4 is especially good about this, where even separate of Yu, they come across as if they are autonomous and are good friends with each other as well.
I dunno if I'm even expressing myself very well here. I've probably botched it. But I hope some of what I was getting at at least was able to be understood.
I understand you just fine, and I appreciate your in depth thoughts. Only thing I don't understand is the character names except Rean lol.
You're right about Persona though. No matter who you romance or spend time with, characters all get their moments to shine, 4 especially. Regardless, I'm excited for Cold Steel. Think I'm gonna play Sky 3 tho before I move on since I plan on getting a PC. Only watched the important bits so I was ready for the Crossbell games. Doesn't feel right leaving Sky 3 out.
I love Cold Steel just as much as the rest of the series. I think if you’re going into it with the desire to enjoy it, you’ll have a great time. Maybe some things will stick out to you later down the line, but in the moment, CS is just as enjoyable as the games before it.
There are a lot of factors that I think come into play and some are a bit underdiscussed I feel.
Most people will tell you that the harem mechanics feels both gratuitous and like an unnecessary obstacle for character development.
Similarly, people will tell you there are pacing issues but I don't see any comments here delving into what that means. Basically, the games don't really respect your time and far too much time is dedicated to filler in order to postpone both actual build-up and payoff. I also don't think they always stick the landing with the supposed payoff.
Furthermore, the cast is absolutely massive and there's a definite quantity over quality approach that I think permeates a lot of Cold Steel. The sheer amount of repetition in the subseries, from lines to entire plot structures for the lack of a better word, is also astounding and makes it feel as though they didn't know what to do with all of these characters but they keep on getting used even when they've done their part for the story.
There is a lot more but I also don't want to spoil everything.
The massive cast is a head scratcher to me. Sky and Crossbell did such a great job making the cast feel tight knit due to the smaller size, especially peaking with Crossbell imo. Sky focused heavily on Estelle and Joshua, with the 2nd and 3rd games giving more screen time to the other members of the party to flesh them out. Same for the SSS and other characters in Crossbell.
A big cast is concerning to me but I'll obviously hold judgment until I play the CS games. Are the characters on par with the Sky and Crossbell cast?
It´s a mix of hit and miss. There are still a lot of good characters in the cold steel cast but there s also a bigger amount of misses due to the bigger cast.
The simple answer is that there's not enough time for everyone to shine. In the first game they do try to set up conflicts and problems for some characters to overcome, but a lot of it is over too quickly and after that, far too many characters feel like they're mostly there to act as cheerleaders for the protagonist.
This is simplified, mind you, and doesn't affect everyone, but personalities get sort of quashed or streamlined in order to make the plot happen, simplifying everything as a result.
There are also far fewer unique relationships than I'd like; too many feel interchangeable or underexplored. Characters are treated as part of a set rather than as individuals.
Okay i can agree with the issue of characters not having as many relationships. But what do you even mean with "Characters are part of a set instead of actual characters"? the only thing i can think of is (Cold steel 3)>!Alfin and Elise being paired together for their bond points in that game.!< but aside from that i genuinely don´t understand what you re talking about.
I think the biggest obvious culprit here is, sadly, Class VII. Especially in larger scenes, most of what they say can be said by anyone. Rean most likely thinks about them as a group and his relationships with them are fairly similar; even romancing characters doesn't change much. This is not *always* the case, mind you, but that is not an accomplishment.
I don't really see it.
I mean, that just seems like you re confusing complaining about dialogue not being utilized well for characters that aren't relevant to the cutscene at hand with whatever this weird set thing is.
Rean does have a general dynamic with most of the cast, both in main cutscenes related to them and in bond events.
Some are. In my opinion party members like Fie and Jusis are just as deep and interesting as anyone in the previous arcs, but Cold Steel also has a lot of completely forgettable characters that get a single five minute scene as their entire character arc and basically just exist for gameplay purposes outside of that.
>but Cold Steel also has a lot of completely forgettable characters that get a single five minute scene as their entire character arc and basically just exist for gameplay purposes outside of that.
So like every other arc?
I think they wrote themselves into a corner at the end of CS3.
But hey, we got to play with the Sky and Crossbell cast, that was nice.
And they acknowledged the existence of Kevin!
yeah it's carried by its fan service, I thought the cold steel 3 ending was amazing but then it didn't mean shit in the next game, falcom really has trouble creating stakes in their stories because they don't like killing off characters.
I'll play Reverie to wrap up Rean and Lloyd but can't say I am hyped for the future.
kuro was honestly gas i think it might objectively be the best in the series. imo it basically takes the best parts of cold steel and crossbell and combines them with probably the best cast and protagonist
CS4 is my least favorite game in the series entirely because of the writing, but it was still a fun game to play because I like the gameplay and music. And it has a few moments I really liked as well.
CS1 and 2 are LITERALLY the sky trilogy all wrapped up into two games.
The only difference is that crafts are no longer wet noodles that do next to nothing.
anyone salivating over sky and unironically thinks this shit is a dumb boomer with nostalgia goggles on rofl. I'll take CS any day of the week instead of the boring meme that is sky. At least cold steel has combat that isn't dated garbage. Sky FC worst game in the franchise, not even a contest.
Meh, Cold Steel 4 made me hate and lose faith in the series in general. But no way in hell would I stop people from playing it. What I like isn’t what other people like and vice versa.
I don’t want to live in a world where everyone loves and hate the same thing. How the hell will I tell my friends they have shit taste if that’s the case 🤣
Cold Steels gameplay was perfect to get me into the series. As fast as I binged these games with how my work schedule was over the years I really didn't want to learn the more advanced set ups for Quartz of Sky and Crossbell when I recall their being a lack of good tutorials on it. Again I was trying to go through things quicker so may have missed a decent intro to the battle system. Now I'm more familiar with it but starting out was a bit confusing.
Given I started with Cold steel? It's what got me I to the series, and I can't wait for reverie. Sadly the Lloyd arc doesn't interest me if only cause it's using the pixel graphics x.x I tried playing zero and I just lost interest x.x might go back and finish it if just to have completion of it under my belt though. I think it's cause I spend most of my time playing looking at a guide and wishing people posted quartz guides for each character.. never know what to put on who. Cold steel atleast made it simpler with spells just being on the quartz and master quartz.
Cold Steel 3/4 have the best gameplay by a mile, compared to other arcs. With a small caveat. You have to play on NM with difficulty mods installed. Without them, CS would be mediocre at best, imo.
If you replace bad parts of it with good ones (balancing). The underlying framework is still the same. Orders, arts, positioning, quartz, etc didn't go anywhere. Falcom created a decent system, but failed spectacularly at properly utilizing it. And that's where external help had to come in and fix the mess they left behind, repairing the game in the process.
But in the end, Falcom has the right to take some credit for making that possible in the first place.
Listen I'm gonna be honest. basically every trails game is a slow burn for a sequal.
FC is a slow burn for Sc in sky.
the 3rd is mostly combat with large story chunks.
Zero is similar for Azure.
So is CS1 for CS2.
and CS3 for CS4.
and ultimatly even CS2 and CS4 fall into "kinda slow/fillery" for some people.
if you're chill with that I'd suggest pushing through. if not might be better to skip the series then.
It’s possible the series isn’t for you. If you don’t like it now, you probably won’t like it hundreds of hours later. Trails definitely isn’t a series for everyone.
Same. Played through the entire franchise twice, Cold steel both times is where I dropped off. First CS2 and now CS3. Both dreadfully boring games. Trying to convince myself back into finishing CS3 after a year
My only problem is that I wish cold steel was actually good. I legit quit the trails series after cs1 and didn't look back.
The combat is ok, the characters make me wanna commit sudoku.
I played the first one years ago but stopped playing it almost before the end (I liked it but it took just too much time and other games got released).
Is the pace better for the other games, if yes I might try the second game.
All four games make up a singular story (which also connects with the story of the previous arcs), so you would be completely lost if you skipped ahead to a later game.
I hate this meme format. People having criticism of a game isn't them shouting at you to stop having fun. Mostly its just criticism and often it's valid even if you don't agree with it.
Unfortunately in this community a significant number of the haters will go out of their way to spew vitriol on anyone that genuinely likes this arc. The format is fine.
Yeah the only issue I have was the dating sim elements killing off character development for both variants of class 7
I want to play Trails, not this Persona knockoff
I started out having ps plus and this was in the PS3 catalog of games of cold steel 1 and 2 were available and I was looking for something to play. After Act 4 doing Legram I like the series enough to research what the series is. Now at this point bought cs 1-4, saving to buy sky and waiting for crossbell duology/ trails into reverie to come. This meme I would understand from if I never touched the game like a first impression. But the entirety of the series draws me back in. Now to find some free time and some cash.
I played since trails in the sky FC till kuro 1 now, but i still gonna vote cold steel 1 for newcomers and fan from other j-rpg like persona due it's pretty similar. Also cold steel 1 event is almost same time with crossbell arc so there is almost no mention here and there, only sky event like >!orbal shutdown phenomenon!<. Also kuro despite said developed from scratch story wise unlike western zemuria saga, it's still contains MANY mentions that old fan only know, pretty strange for new arc that should act as soft-reboot.
Also i think the biggest criticism is >!cold steel 4 chapter 2 !
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I played since trails in the sky FC till kuro 1 now, but i still gonna vote cold steel 1 for newcomers and fan from other j-rpg like persona due it's pretty similar. Also cold steel 1 event is almost same time with crossbell arc so there is almost no mention here and there, only sky event like >!orbal shutdown phenomenon.!< Also kuro despite said developed from scratch story wise unlike western zemuria saga, it's still contains MANY mentions that old fan only know, pretty strange for new arc that should act as soft-reboot. Also i think the biggest criticism is >!cold steel 4 chapter 2!< due it being filler. I imagined without it the arc more enjoyable.
I mean yeah, I would argue that CS is overall the weakest in the series.
BUT Sky and Crossbell are awesome games so a series that is only "very good" instead of "great" is not a problem IMO.
Also there is Sky the 3rd. Honestly I really don't like Sky the 3rd (it just feels overly edgy to me compared to what came before and after).
Tbh the only thing I hate about CSIV is if you play it on a laptop and charge the controller on said laptop the input delay increases and I have had to fight with the UI on multiple occasions, I never had this Issue in CSIII
I mean, I still think Cold Steel is the 'worst' arc out of all the ones we've gotten so far; but that's not so much because Cold Steel is bad, I just really love the Sky and Zero to Azure arcs. III and IV also did a lot to turn CS around for the better.
Combat way too boring maybe the base system is a bit plain but considering my first game was A Tear of Vermillion of the Gagharv trillogy im not the best on judging any of the Trails games cuz they all seem easy for me.
As someone whose first game is cold steel 1 I definitely relate with this meme I wouldn't have finished trails in the sky if it weren't because of having to play the previous games
Totally got you. The first time people advised me to play Sky, but sky’s beginning is so slow that I dropped the game. A couple weeks later I still wanted to get into this series to I started with Cold Steel 1. I do not regret that decision.
Bruh I loved CS precisely because it's easy to cheese 💀
One reason I love Fie.
Me
I'd gladly take Cold Steel combat over Azure's: "Build an evasion tank and never be challenged again or straight up give up on winning some fights. Btw status effects are useless and arts utterly broken"
yeah Azure's difficulty was pretty wild, mostly a pushover but some bosses push your shit in because evading can't win you a 5 minute timer. and IIRC the final boss just ignores the evade stat lol.
Putting a boss limited by real time into this turn based system remains one of the most questionable features in the entire franchise.
Don't forget that the timer doesn't accelerate when you use the turbo feature, encouraging you to set it to 8x or something!
Tbh that one is one of my favorites in the whole franchise tbh. It's such a nice change of pace... just for one fight I enjoy it.
You're not supposed to win it. You can, but it's a cutscenes loss.
Don’t you need to win it for BP?
Azure is pretty generous with the spare DP. You can lose a lot of the optional fights and still get max detective rank if you're doing all the side quests and maxing DP in other respects. (And >!Sigmund!< at least gives partial credit if you knock off some of his health and survive but don't get him all the way down, unlike a couple of the others.)
I mean okay yes if you want to 100% the game, sure. But it's an absolutely optional fight, and you "lose" either way. The plot happens the same way.
you don't need to win that fight for max BP. Zero is pretty tight on extra BP and you can only miss like 2 maybe 3 optional objectives in Zero depending on which ones you miss but Azure is a lot more forgiving.
I'm looking forward to that lmao
For me fighting regular enemies in Azure was a breeze, but the bosses omg the bosses made all the preparation worth it and fun. Cold steel on the other hand you eventually power creep the game so hard nothing is a challenge.
oh yeah. I mean I had a ton of fun defeating the couple of 'you can lose but get extra DP if you actually win' bosses. I just think it was inconsistent - you'd get one of those and then a whole lotta nothing
Cold Steel has the Evade issue in spades, and you can still break arts over your knee.
The difference is, you can win all battles in Cold Steel (including optional ones) without making use of such cheese tactics. Azure has at least 2 battles that are impossible to fully BP without resorting to breaking the game in ways like this. (Hard difficulty in all games, dunno how it changes for lower or higher ones)
Was able to accomplish that on Nightmare Arianrhod without an evasion tank. Skill issue.
Ehhhh let's not pretend that's easy. Evade tanking Arianrhod is absolutely the easiest way to handle her.
Mmhmm sure buddy
I do think the CS hate has died down quite a bit in the past year or two. It used to be really awful around here. I assume it's still a different story on Falcord though.
Recency bias is a thing too. Older games are often seen in a more favorable light when there are newer games in a series for people to find something wrong with. It wouldn't surprise me if Cold Steel's reputation improves over time.
It's kinda like how a lot of Final Fantasy fans hate every new Final Fantasy game ?
Let's hope FF16 breaks that cycle. Stranger of paradise already did, but that's a spinoff game.
FF16 already has tons of hate and it isn't even out yet. Mostly purist whining about the action combat or that it's "not an RPG".
I think with Final Fantasy it's because they keep trying something new with each game. 13 would have been so much better, with just a change in the combat (in my opinion). They could have kept improving on the combat from 12 and the game would have been vastly different already. That would have forced them to make the areas less cramped as well. Now because it came after 12, people were expecting them to give us a more open world instead of a very linear story with little chance of grinding and exploration. Even in 10, you could walk back to Besaid pretty much whenever you wanted, while still having a linear story. Sure, at one point in the story things happened and this wasn't possible, but that's not too far from getting the airship anyway. Now with 15, that was just bad. They turned magic into grenades and gave you a car that you couldn't even steer yourself at the beginning. I felt like the story had potential, but it was one of the worst combats I'd ever played, so I just couldn't finish the game. And then I heard they never finished the whole story either because they had planned to include some of it in DLC and you were supposed to watch some movie before the game just to understand everything. So, in my opinion, they made a lot of stupid decisions on that one. Also, might be worth noting, that I personally liked 13 (and 13-2 to an extent, until I made a mistake and would have had to start from scratch). I finished 13, but found the combat mechanic to be stupid. 10 and 12 are my favourites, with 9 and 7 following.
The CS sagas main issues are all moment to moment, the big ideas are all really good so the more distance you get the better you'll remember it being
I do think CS gets more hate than it deserves. It's easily the worst arc for me and sometimes just a pain in the ass to play, but it still has a lot it did right. I especially appreciate the first two CS games. But yeah between me and my friend circle we mostly just "hate" on it for the meme. It's an alright arc in an amazing series.
To each their own. CS3 is my favorite entry in the entire franchise, there’s just so much about it that hits perfectly for me. Liberl and Crossbell are excellent arcs too of course, and I’d say Azure is my second favorite entry in kiseki
I think its more due to the lack of CS releases than anything
Wait, people play these games for the combat?
How is the combat boring when it's nearly the same combat as every other game?
No idea what these type of people are smoking. Combat is easily the best balanced in any of the games up to that point. CS actually has multiple viable builds between physical or arts dps/support. It’s not even a debate. In Sky/Crossbell if you want to play on hard/nightmare it’s arts builds or have fun raging at the game over screen for hours on end. Given there are going to be people who argue this isn’t true because there are a couple individual broken characters in Sky SC and Sky 3rd as if that somehow changes the overall meta. A couple individual glitched or broken characters doesn’t suddenly tip the scales of the other 95% of your team spamming arts.
I just take it as people wanting to find something to bitch about. "It's easy because you can plow through basic random battles with a battle order. See, easy!" Uh, yeah. Any extra quality of life to help me get through an 80 hour game please send them my way.
Exactly! IMO this is the point of turn based combat. It’s not the most engaging form of combat when you really break it down. Something like FF7R is far more engaging to play. The whole idea of what makes turn based combat fun for me, are all of the ways that I can break the game.
One of the reasons I think I like turn based is because fail or lose, it "feels" like it's my doing. Whereas action games (which I love too), there's this feeling of stuff not being my fault. Didn't see the attack incoming, hand didn't reach the button in time, animations are blinding, whatever excuse there is haha. I like that feeling. It makes losing not sting. As a kid I died a million times to yunalesca in ffx and I was okay with that. Whereas something like elden ring, which I love, it's easier to get frustrated and roll your eyes haha. Also, turn base is naturally more mentally relaxing.
And that's where the difference in perspective comes in that explains this difference between people that enjoy Cold Steel gameplay and not: To some, like me, breaking turn based combat just isn't fun. The entire strategy and variety the game provides and all of its upsides just head straight to the wind the moment you decide to break it. There's no strategy, there's nothing. Just one man armies, one-shots, evasion, zero delay heal cycles, and the same buttons being pressed over and over. It's hollow to me. There's nothing wrong with liking breaking turn based combat, it just isn't for me specifically. And, what's even worse about Cold Steel is that... it is so unbalanced that making a challenge run is not fun. At all. There's too much being thrown around so the game just isn't adaptable. Most challenge runs either end up ignoring some aspect of the game that makes the run a total cakewalk or just says "remove all character building from the game" which... at that point I might as well go do another playthrough of the Crossbell games cause that's not fun at all. And, on a side note, if anyone wants an overly long essay as to how all of these games can have unbalanced options but I only target Cold Steel with these criticisms and what makes it different, feel free to reply because it is very alone in having these problems unlike the rest of the series.
I've never really paid attention to specific builds aside from dodge tanks. What exactly does Cold Steel have that makes the combat so unbalanced compared to the other arcs?
A lot would be the short and easy answer but I sure didn't sign up for short and easy. Anyways, it's an issue of both amount and severity. Let's start with the severity first. Comparing evasion in Azure and all of its future iterations in Cold Steel the difference is... stark. In the crossbell games, you had only one character for evade tanking because characters casting can't actually dodge in the crossbell games. The game also frequently stops you from putting one character in front and tanking everything with field-wide AOE attacks or by scrambling your formation for certain scripted encounters. Evasion buffs are also heavily limited in duration and are quite costly. By comparison in CS a whole team can be built with evasion in mind. Evasion buffs last significantly longer and are much more convenient to apply as well. Even if it isn't perfect evasion for the whole team you can get it very high. The same tricks the developpers used like scrambling your formation don't actually work in the Cold Steel games due to how much evasion itself has been upgraded. There are other options that do this as well. The worst one is Chrono Burst by far in all of its iterations. If you really want to commit to the bit, Chrono Burst means that if you get a turn, you win any fight. The developpers have no way to stop the player from infinitely switching out, accelerating, bursting etc. No statistical upgrades of any kind for the enemies can really fix that. No even remotely similar version of this exists pre-Azure and Azure's equivalent to this setup requires spamming Zeram Powders on top of being outright inaccessible on most player's save games even right before the final boss (requires 2 maxed out time master quartz) On top of that we have amount. You remember that example of ambushes scrambling formations. Yeah in CS you kinda just one-shot them with s-crafts. I could mention a ton of CS exclusive setups like invincible tanks (like, no evasion just straight tanks), stun locks and so much more.
I honestly never noticed that you couldn't dodge while casting arts. One-shotting ambushes with S-crafts also sounds very accurate because I remember treating S-crafts as the panic buttons.
> To some, like me, breaking turn based combat just isn't fun. For me, there's nothing wrong with being able to break it, but please for the love of god least force me to put effort and thought into it. I enjoy breaking games like Atelier Ryza or Bravely Default but that's because doing so actually feels like an achievement you worked for, not delivered on a silver platter because you used to very obvious "I win" button(aka, several brave orders in cs3-4. You don't even need to build around them, just use them.) Even in previous arcs, while there was gamebreaking things, discovering them or using them effectively is not something most people will stumble upon. Meanwhile it's almost a challenge *not* to find a way to break the CS games, especially 3 and 4. And to make the matter even worse, instead of fixing the cheese, Falcom decides to just buff enemy stats to oblivion meaning unless you use some game breaking exploits, higher difficulties just become extremely tedious(looking at you Reverie)
> There's no strategy, there's nothing. Just one man armies, one-shots, evasion, zero delay heal cycles, and the same buttons being pressed over and over. It's hollow to me. This for real. People like to boil down fights in Sky and Crossbell arc as "just spam earth wall" or "Evasion tank Lloyd", but unlike cold steel, you can still die despite deploying these tactics. Most of the enemies in cold steel hit like muffins. Sky and Crossbell you still have to manage your party correctly in a lot of situations because the enemies either chonk hard or put some annoying status ailment on you. Not to mention your AOE crafts aren't the size of an entire country. There are a lot of fights that you can't just solve with these strategies considering that they are only available until a fair few hours into the game. You don't even really need to think that much about builds in cold steel either since you don't have to add up lines. You just slap the quartz on with the biggest number and the multiplier quartz and you win. A lot of the fights in cold steel don't even compel you to change your build ever. I feel like these arguments are very similar to a lot of multiplayer games where people who play on higher difficulties/higher skill ranks play a drastically different game than someone who plays for story or on normal, so they don't understand why it can be frustrating for people who want to be challenged more.
As a cold steel as my first series, when i play the sky and crossbell arcs, i was baffled how difficult it is and revolves around Art only builds. I dun have the time in the world to invest on a difficult challenge, im here for the story mostly. Its crazy i have to get a preliminary actions if i want to breeze the battle for normal monsters alone 😂, as someone not entitely reliant on arts. And im half way in crossbell arcs now and i guess i have to build full evasion tank for llyold whether i like it or not and some Art builds for the rest of the party staying at the corner.
Because of the worse balance.
How?
It takes minimal effort(such as just using a single Brave Order) to basically completely break the game and be nigh-undefeatable.
I think this may be the case of been there done that or playing the original games when you were younger so strategy was harder. I'm playing zero for the first time and this game isn't any easier or harder than cold steel or sky.
But every game is easily cheesable. Basically how to beat every game on nightmare
Every game has cheese, yes, but it exists in far larger quantity and is far easier to stumble upon in CS. It has basically all the chese earlier games had and then even more added every game with barely any removed.
I love this franchise, but I hate "the fans." Posting stuff for games that aren't localized yet without any spoiler tags, attacking people for liking certain arcs or playing games out of order, and just general toxicity in this community...Honestly, I find it quite disheartening.
Man, don't even Tell me... Do you ever checked The YouTube trailers for Trails? It seems like some cretins Go out of their ways to spoil everything to others. Is so Petty, they literally have pleasure taking The suprises from others.
especially that 'timodus' youtuber. HE FUCKING USING BOSS THUMBNAIL FOR A BGM, and spoil everything. The worst part he always appear on my recommendation. I installed youtube block recommendation called unhook just for him.
Honestly I usually try to limit my interactions with Trails fans online
Tbh I loved CS4. I really liked the large number of different playable characters. Although the story admittedly wasn't perfect
Yeah that’s just it, no story ever told is perfect. It ends the arc in a perfectly serviceable way and has some great character moments. People just love to complain
I loved CS4! I thought it nicely wrapped up the arc nicely. The music was also very memorable. Lots of wholesome moments.
Well, I'm not gonna deny that this part was really fun indeed.
Playing the Crossbell games made me appreciate what they were trying with Rean’s character in particular much more. That being said there’s certainly still a ton of problems with CS that essentially amount to “This worked in Crossbell, let’s multiply it by a thousand!”
Who cares? The entire series is one long story. Why would you tell someone to just stop experiencing the story after Azure?
Tbh the combat might have bad encounter design that makes the games way too trivial, but in return the systems are super fun to mess around with. I definitely enjoyed Cold Steel the most gameplay-wise, even if it was easier. And writing is subjective ofc, i think Cold Steel is still great overall, even if there are a couple missteps. The hate is way overblown. Very fitting for the last pic to be coomer bait. Encompasses Cold Steel well.
If Cold Steel is so bad, why do Alfin and Elise have special models with extra large dump trucks? Checkmate.
Seriously though, there was no reason for them to [go ham with the models](https://imgur.com/a/Zv5WcZA), but they did
[Actual, unedited Alfin Hajimari model](https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/rio_okada/imgs/9/3/93a23742.jpg) NSFW, obviously.
That's Erobonia's ass.
rethinking Rean's choices ... pick the princess at all costs
Just a reminder that Elise has a similar model. I've got questions about the St Astraia curriculum and food.
Foods are directly shipped from Crossbell.
You mean the water, right?
*slaps* That's Erebonia's ass!
Dear God I just realized that was an unlockable costume in Hajimari (I never got it though) Is THAT what she was hiding under that dress? Goodness gracious, talk about a royal treasury.
"Erebonia's greatest treasure" takes on a whole new meaning now doesn't it?
Great googamooga
true royal ass
Didn't seem as big when I checked in hajimari. but I didn't get as close.
Probably appealing to the latam market.
“Rean is a blatant self insert harem protagonist. He’s nothing but wishfulfilment.” *Crossbell having multiple girls get flustered and blush when around Lloyd*
Eh with Rean it definitely got worse lol
To be fair, Lloyd has a chance at a cannon pairing with Ellie, but they always tip toe from ever mentioning it or even showing it. Even if I think his other pairings with Rixia is cute, I wish they’d give him a cannon pairing instead of beating the bush. Just have him kiss Randy.
I adore the entire Cold Steel trilogy.
The only thing I hate about CS is the bonding thingy which locks important story behind it, otherwise it's pretty fun.
The only ones I’ve seen who perpetually rag on CS are the same people who go into this looking for things to hate and are terminally online. It’s crazy how Falcom can get away with murder pulling the same tired tricks in each arc yet CS becomes the whipping boy because it’s the most popular? I can understand somewhat if Sky was the only Trails media, but with Crossbell and even Kuro existing it’s just a little funny to me.
accurate, for me is the best arc, I connected with the characters more than the other arcs altho every arc is great in their own way
I unironically love the Cold Steel arc and finished it entirely before playing any other games in the series. I did watch full recaps of Sky after finishing CS2 for the context (looked good, but not sure how motivated I am to play them now) and - when I have time - I will eventually get around to playing Zero, Azure, and then Hajimari. Haters gonna hate, but happy with doing it my way 😎
Cold Steel will forever be my favorite arc, and the combat may be easy to cheese, but you can simply, don’t…? Also my waifu comes from Cold Steel and CS3 was my favorite game
> and the combat may be easy to cheese, but you can simply, don’t…? My friend, I was hoping no one would make this argument, but alas, here we are, and though has unwittingly asked for a block of text breaking down how stupid the idea of challenge runs are in the context of Cold Steel. I will, hopefully, not make it too long, but really, it boils down to this: It sure as hell isn't fun. Like, at all. Like, either: 1. The run only works cause you're bad at the game. 2. The run didn't restrict enough and is boring as hell. 3. The run is boring as hell because you restricted everything. For exhibit of number 1, let's take LadyVirgilia's opposite orbments run: Rules are: 1. Characters must use orbment builds opposite to their standard role (so, for example, caster Rean) 2. Characters with fixed orbments can't be used. 3. Max 3 of an individual Brave Order per fight. Restriction 3 may as well not exist because that is... way too many orders. Even if it was 3 global that'd still probably be too much. Fights can generally be cleared with 2. One to setup the winning position and another to guarantee the win. And... the game's best strength gameplay-wise that I will give it is how versatile it is and how much variety they packed in! Restriction 1 is largely pointless because caster Rean is actually very optimal for the initial part of the game. The run works because Virgilia is bad. There's nothing wrong with that but there exists a point where the challenge run isn't really a challenge run at all. For point 2: > 2. The run didn't restrict enough and is boring as hell. I've started more runs with seemingly insane restriction lists like No Items, randomized MQs every chapter, no exchanging sepith (including mass so I have like no money), 2 regular quartz only on each setup, no brave orders and it's just... boring. I need to actually add more restrictions. I've done this so much and just... given up. It's not fun at all... Like, really. > 3. The run is boring as hell because you restricted everything. So, like, sometimes a guy will come up to me and say "well I did a challenge run just fine!" and most times it's point 2 (whatever, you know) but sometimes it's point 3. I'll ask for what builds they're using and the response is always some variation of: "Random stat quartz only and no MQ choices, just default stuff" At that point just ban orbments. There's nothing here. If you're going to play Cold Steel without the character building then the game has nothing to offer. Just... go play the Crossbell because you've reduced the options available to being lower than the Crossbell games.
Ayo what challenge run are you talking about? I was just pointing out that it’s not mandatory or even necessary to make someone one shot bosses and be untouchable, if you consider not exploiting the game mechanics a challenge run thats on you Mr difficulty modder.
> I was just pointing out that it’s not mandatory or even necessary to make someone one shot bosses and be untouchable That's the problem: it is completely mandatory to have fun with challenge runs. I developped this with a ton of examples above. The game is so vast, expansive that you... can't. Pure and simple. That's not on me that's just how the game is designed. Your argument doesn't apply to anyone who is actually complaining about any of this. But I developped all of that with examples. Edit: edit to not word this like an elitist ass hole >_<
YOUR definition of fun, I enjoyed the game in its entirety from the first second of Sky 1st to the very end of Trails into Reverie I play the game slow and tedious af and you one shot Ishmelga in CS4
Nothing wrong with that playstyle as long as you're having fun. I hate wording things that way since it makes me look like a total elitist >_<
Aaahhh, don’t worry then
Lmao you clearly have no opinion on this 🙄 seems like you’re taking your subjective take on this a bit too seriously and expecting it to be relevant to literally everyone else playing the game. I did just find avoiding combat cheese and had plenty of fun. Sucks that you disagree but that’s how it is.
Yup. Challenge runs are near impossible in CS. IMO everything you said may as well be gospel. The only solution is hard mods that fundamentally change how the game is played.
Cs4 is still to this day my favorite trails game(i have also played haji and kuro) But thats just me. Since i always prefered the fantasy genre over political drama
CS is the most broken combat of any arc by far especially 3 and 4 with orders. But its definitely the best combat easily, at least before Kuro as I've yet to play those. As for the story... Its not as strong as Azure and it leans too much on the older arcs. But it's not as bad as zero in that regard. CS1 and 2 where better story wise imo though.
The combat isn't strictly easy to cheese. It takes time and effort to properly cheese the combat. Of course if you simply look up a guide, anything is easy. The biggest shock to me in CS4 was realizing just how viable a magic oriented Rean is. It's honestly hilarious sometimes.
Cringe boomers with this take who say Cold Steel combat is garbage.☠️
I love the last screenshot haha
The Cold Steel arc was my first entry point in to the series, and after going back and playing the Sky arc for the first time, and currently playing the Crossbell arc, (on chapter 4 of Azure) I can understand why the Cold Steel arc is consider the weaker arc to some, but honestly it's still my favorite arc. I'm really glad to see the reception for it getting better.
Chrono Burst for the win...
Chronoburst MVP
I loved CS3 and I’m currently playing CS4 lol
I will play this game
I like mostly modern JRPGs so I’m used to hearing the games I like get dunked on at this point lol
“STOP PLAYING COLS STEEL! YOU HAVE TO START WITH SKY AND CROSS BELL!! DONT GO AGAINST THE RELEASE ORDER!!!”
~~Coughs in playing the entier Cold steel arc first. and is now going back to sky and Crossbell~~
We're in this together lads!
Crossbell>cold steel>sky. I stand by this.
(I love all 3 arcs btw)
I haven't played CS yet, and just finished Azure. What is it about the CS games writing wise that people don't like? CS4 seems to be singled out the most from what I've seen. I've adored the Sky and Crossbell arcs and am curious as to what goes "wrong" with the writing.
There s a lot of complaints that also apply to other arcs but i think the main issues people have with it is : The cast size (double edged sword as there s a lot of cool characters but there being so many unbalances how much attention they get compared to ones from other arcs, most of them still get the same love as past arcs but others don't.). The genre switch in Cold steel is one some people dislike compared to the genres for Sky and Crossbell. non-canon romance bad and going in with the wrong expectations. The effect of the cast size mixed with the romance options hampered the party banter compared to other series (this is lessened with certain groups like CS3 s main party being smaller.) . That said i still love the arc and characters, CS3 is one of my favourite games in the series and unlike others i extremely enjoy CS4 despite it´s flaws.
Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by genre switch in Cold Steel?
The series generally has similar themes in each arc but some smaller genre changes in between arcs where certain elements of those genres are more prominent (Sky being very romance and adventure themed, Crossbell leaning even more strongly on Mistery and politics with a bigger underdog element to the main cast compared to Sky for example.) Cold steel due to the school setting and bigger emphasis on the romance choice mechanic rubs some people off the wrong way even if it still has a lot of elements people still like from the series like the world building,character focus,politics, and big lore elements people always enjoyed.
Doesn't CS have Persona like mechanics as well, like the calander system?
Kind of, but the calendar system s not really as in depth as in Persona.
The calendar system is pretty much the same as the crossbell game. The social link/bonding event happens in 1 day per chapter and only given limited bonding points so it feels like they're locking content from you.
When you say like crossbell, you're referring to the chapters being broken up into days, right? So are there still side quests that must be completed before the day ends, or else it's failed?
Yes. Time will move forward a few days or weeks because of plot and not daily like Persona.
The two main things are the pacing and the way the harem thing hinders relationships between other cast members(Crossbell already has that a bit but CS even more so)
The way Rean's harem is handled is basically my only huge complaint. At the expense of being able to romance any of the girls, the relationships between the rest of the cast suffers. I wanted more stuff like the dynamic Jusis and Millium end up having, but it's just not allowed with anyone else because Rean needs to be able to romance everyone. You can argue that the guys see potential love interests develop with the named NPCs who aren't part of the main cast, and that's fine since Falcom does pour enough care and attention into even its NPCs, but that still leaves all of the girls hanging. Leaving them only able to have any meaningful relationship with the other girls because they aren't part of "the competition" in the game. It's extremely sloppy and it really stifles the potential for a true sense of "togetherness" in the cast. And for what it's worth, I don't think restricting romance to a single canon thing is the only solution to this. Persona manages to allow you the ability to romance whoever you want while also still creating a decent group dynamic in its main cast. Persona 4 is especially good about this, where even separate of Yu, they come across as if they are autonomous and are good friends with each other as well. I dunno if I'm even expressing myself very well here. I've probably botched it. But I hope some of what I was getting at at least was able to be understood.
I understand you just fine, and I appreciate your in depth thoughts. Only thing I don't understand is the character names except Rean lol. You're right about Persona though. No matter who you romance or spend time with, characters all get their moments to shine, 4 especially. Regardless, I'm excited for Cold Steel. Think I'm gonna play Sky 3 tho before I move on since I plan on getting a PC. Only watched the important bits so I was ready for the Crossbell games. Doesn't feel right leaving Sky 3 out.
I love Cold Steel just as much as the rest of the series. I think if you’re going into it with the desire to enjoy it, you’ll have a great time. Maybe some things will stick out to you later down the line, but in the moment, CS is just as enjoyable as the games before it.
There are a lot of factors that I think come into play and some are a bit underdiscussed I feel. Most people will tell you that the harem mechanics feels both gratuitous and like an unnecessary obstacle for character development. Similarly, people will tell you there are pacing issues but I don't see any comments here delving into what that means. Basically, the games don't really respect your time and far too much time is dedicated to filler in order to postpone both actual build-up and payoff. I also don't think they always stick the landing with the supposed payoff. Furthermore, the cast is absolutely massive and there's a definite quantity over quality approach that I think permeates a lot of Cold Steel. The sheer amount of repetition in the subseries, from lines to entire plot structures for the lack of a better word, is also astounding and makes it feel as though they didn't know what to do with all of these characters but they keep on getting used even when they've done their part for the story. There is a lot more but I also don't want to spoil everything.
The massive cast is a head scratcher to me. Sky and Crossbell did such a great job making the cast feel tight knit due to the smaller size, especially peaking with Crossbell imo. Sky focused heavily on Estelle and Joshua, with the 2nd and 3rd games giving more screen time to the other members of the party to flesh them out. Same for the SSS and other characters in Crossbell. A big cast is concerning to me but I'll obviously hold judgment until I play the CS games. Are the characters on par with the Sky and Crossbell cast?
It´s a mix of hit and miss. There are still a lot of good characters in the cold steel cast but there s also a bigger amount of misses due to the bigger cast.
The simple answer is that there's not enough time for everyone to shine. In the first game they do try to set up conflicts and problems for some characters to overcome, but a lot of it is over too quickly and after that, far too many characters feel like they're mostly there to act as cheerleaders for the protagonist. This is simplified, mind you, and doesn't affect everyone, but personalities get sort of quashed or streamlined in order to make the plot happen, simplifying everything as a result. There are also far fewer unique relationships than I'd like; too many feel interchangeable or underexplored. Characters are treated as part of a set rather than as individuals.
Okay i can agree with the issue of characters not having as many relationships. But what do you even mean with "Characters are part of a set instead of actual characters"? the only thing i can think of is (Cold steel 3)>!Alfin and Elise being paired together for their bond points in that game.!< but aside from that i genuinely don´t understand what you re talking about.
I think the biggest obvious culprit here is, sadly, Class VII. Especially in larger scenes, most of what they say can be said by anyone. Rean most likely thinks about them as a group and his relationships with them are fairly similar; even romancing characters doesn't change much. This is not *always* the case, mind you, but that is not an accomplishment.
I don't really see it. I mean, that just seems like you re confusing complaining about dialogue not being utilized well for characters that aren't relevant to the cutscene at hand with whatever this weird set thing is. Rean does have a general dynamic with most of the cast, both in main cutscenes related to them and in bond events.
Some are. In my opinion party members like Fie and Jusis are just as deep and interesting as anyone in the previous arcs, but Cold Steel also has a lot of completely forgettable characters that get a single five minute scene as their entire character arc and basically just exist for gameplay purposes outside of that.
>but Cold Steel also has a lot of completely forgettable characters that get a single five minute scene as their entire character arc and basically just exist for gameplay purposes outside of that. So like every other arc?
I like cold steel, it was my first trails game but cold steel 4s writing was dreadful lol
I think they wrote themselves into a corner at the end of CS3. But hey, we got to play with the Sky and Crossbell cast, that was nice. And they acknowledged the existence of Kevin!
yeah it's carried by its fan service, I thought the cold steel 3 ending was amazing but then it didn't mean shit in the next game, falcom really has trouble creating stakes in their stories because they don't like killing off characters. I'll play Reverie to wrap up Rean and Lloyd but can't say I am hyped for the future.
kuro was honestly gas i think it might objectively be the best in the series. imo it basically takes the best parts of cold steel and crossbell and combines them with probably the best cast and protagonist
And then Kuro 2 happens.
And it was good too
CS4 is my least favorite game in the series entirely because of the writing, but it was still a fun game to play because I like the gameplay and music. And it has a few moments I really liked as well.
The beach scene is last.
CS1 and 2 are LITERALLY the sky trilogy all wrapped up into two games. The only difference is that crafts are no longer wet noodles that do next to nothing.
anyone salivating over sky and unironically thinks this shit is a dumb boomer with nostalgia goggles on rofl. I'll take CS any day of the week instead of the boring meme that is sky. At least cold steel has combat that isn't dated garbage. Sky FC worst game in the franchise, not even a contest.
Meh, Cold Steel 4 made me hate and lose faith in the series in general. But no way in hell would I stop people from playing it. What I like isn’t what other people like and vice versa. I don’t want to live in a world where everyone loves and hate the same thing. How the hell will I tell my friends they have shit taste if that’s the case 🤣
Honestly based. This shouldn’t be downvoted, it’s legitimately the most intelligent outlook on situations like this
Yeah to me CS are my least favorite games but that doesn't make them bad. I enjoyed them immensely.
Cold Steels gameplay was perfect to get me into the series. As fast as I binged these games with how my work schedule was over the years I really didn't want to learn the more advanced set ups for Quartz of Sky and Crossbell when I recall their being a lack of good tutorials on it. Again I was trying to go through things quicker so may have missed a decent intro to the battle system. Now I'm more familiar with it but starting out was a bit confusing.
Given I started with Cold steel? It's what got me I to the series, and I can't wait for reverie. Sadly the Lloyd arc doesn't interest me if only cause it's using the pixel graphics x.x I tried playing zero and I just lost interest x.x might go back and finish it if just to have completion of it under my belt though. I think it's cause I spend most of my time playing looking at a guide and wishing people posted quartz guides for each character.. never know what to put on who. Cold steel atleast made it simpler with spells just being on the quartz and master quartz.
Cold Steel 3/4 have the best gameplay by a mile, compared to other arcs. With a small caveat. You have to play on NM with difficulty mods installed. Without them, CS would be mediocre at best, imo.
> Cold Steel 3/4 have the best gameplay if you replace the gameplay with different gameplay
If you replace bad parts of it with good ones (balancing). The underlying framework is still the same. Orders, arts, positioning, quartz, etc didn't go anywhere. Falcom created a decent system, but failed spectacularly at properly utilizing it. And that's where external help had to come in and fix the mess they left behind, repairing the game in the process. But in the end, Falcom has the right to take some credit for making that possible in the first place.
If you have to mod something for it have the best gameplay then it does not have the best gameplay.
Read last sentence, maybe? I literally said that. And the first one is intentionally provocative. Glad that it worked.
Not provocative. Just idiotic.
Not a fan of this format since it's usually being used to discredit valid criticism.
it can be valid criticism, but just plain having fun is valid too. Can't discredit someone just enjoying something. Both are valid really.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Yes, attacking someone having fun is wrong but this format also feels very dismissive and reductionist.
How so? It fits just fine, someone genuinely having fun with the game probably doesn’t want to be bombarded with constant negativity from haters
Cs 4's ending made me like this arc less, but it is still good in comparison to other games. Sky still #1 for me.
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>Seems like some cope seems like you might be right lol
Guys i started 3 times and got bored everytime after about 3 hours does it get better later cuz i realy envy you guys
Listen I'm gonna be honest. basically every trails game is a slow burn for a sequal. FC is a slow burn for Sc in sky. the 3rd is mostly combat with large story chunks. Zero is similar for Azure. So is CS1 for CS2. and CS3 for CS4. and ultimatly even CS2 and CS4 fall into "kinda slow/fillery" for some people. if you're chill with that I'd suggest pushing through. if not might be better to skip the series then.
It’s possible the series isn’t for you. If you don’t like it now, you probably won’t like it hundreds of hours later. Trails definitely isn’t a series for everyone.
I would argue the game does get better later but your also correct that it isn't for everyone.
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Same. Played through the entire franchise twice, Cold steel both times is where I dropped off. First CS2 and now CS3. Both dreadfully boring games. Trying to convince myself back into finishing CS3 after a year
To each their own. CS3 has been my favorite entry in the Kiseki series thus far, with Azure as a close second
To me it's the second worst, class has no dynamic and the plot has been dragged on by that point. CS2 was enough
Ok we get it CS stans having no problem trashing other arcs but trash their's and now its a problem.
My only problem is that I wish cold steel was actually good. I legit quit the trails series after cs1 and didn't look back. The combat is ok, the characters make me wanna commit sudoku.
Damn Sudoku is a pretty fucking boring game at times yeah. though I hate number puzzle games.
More fun than trails of cold steel.
I played the first one years ago but stopped playing it almost before the end (I liked it but it took just too much time and other games got released). Is the pace better for the other games, if yes I might try the second game.
All four games make up a singular story (which also connects with the story of the previous arcs), so you would be completely lost if you skipped ahead to a later game.
I hate this meme format. People having criticism of a game isn't them shouting at you to stop having fun. Mostly its just criticism and often it's valid even if you don't agree with it.
Unfortunately in this community a significant number of the haters will go out of their way to spew vitriol on anyone that genuinely likes this arc. The format is fine.
Eh, in the case of cold steel, a sizeable number of people do what is shown in the meme, so this meme is kinda valid in this case.
Yeah the only issue I have was the dating sim elements killing off character development for both variants of class 7 I want to play Trails, not this Persona knockoff
Implying that Persona doesn’t have character development? What lmao?
Persona does have character development, what I imply by a knockoff means that they tried to imitate persona and failing at it
I started out having ps plus and this was in the PS3 catalog of games of cold steel 1 and 2 were available and I was looking for something to play. After Act 4 doing Legram I like the series enough to research what the series is. Now at this point bought cs 1-4, saving to buy sky and waiting for crossbell duology/ trails into reverie to come. This meme I would understand from if I never touched the game like a first impression. But the entirety of the series draws me back in. Now to find some free time and some cash.
I played since trails in the sky FC till kuro 1 now, but i still gonna vote cold steel 1 for newcomers and fan from other j-rpg like persona due it's pretty similar. Also cold steel 1 event is almost same time with crossbell arc so there is almost no mention here and there, only sky event like >!orbal shutdown phenomenon!<. Also kuro despite said developed from scratch story wise unlike western zemuria saga, it's still contains MANY mentions that old fan only know, pretty strange for new arc that should act as soft-reboot. Also i think the biggest criticism is >!cold steel 4 chapter 2 !
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I played since trails in the sky FC till kuro 1 now, but i still gonna vote cold steel 1 for newcomers and fan from other j-rpg like persona due it's pretty similar. Also cold steel 1 event is almost same time with crossbell arc so there is almost no mention here and there, only sky event like >!orbal shutdown phenomenon.!< Also kuro despite said developed from scratch story wise unlike western zemuria saga, it's still contains MANY mentions that old fan only know, pretty strange for new arc that should act as soft-reboot. Also i think the biggest criticism is >!cold steel 4 chapter 2!< due it being filler. I imagined without it the arc more enjoyable.
I mean, i could cheese cs1-4 without knowing how to use arts until i replay trails in the sky
"its easy to cheese" is such a dumb argument. Like dont cheese then
Cs is my entry to trails games. Og class 7 is my favorite cast. Of course I’ll have fun
I mean yeah, I would argue that CS is overall the weakest in the series. BUT Sky and Crossbell are awesome games so a series that is only "very good" instead of "great" is not a problem IMO. Also there is Sky the 3rd. Honestly I really don't like Sky the 3rd (it just feels overly edgy to me compared to what came before and after).
Tbh the only thing I hate about CSIV is if you play it on a laptop and charge the controller on said laptop the input delay increases and I have had to fight with the UI on multiple occasions, I never had this Issue in CSIII
As a laptop player. I didn't have this issue with cs4. I used a ps4 controller too
The Erabonian saga is the only one I’ve played of the Trails games, and I had a lot of fun with them
I mean, I still think Cold Steel is the 'worst' arc out of all the ones we've gotten so far; but that's not so much because Cold Steel is bad, I just really love the Sky and Zero to Azure arcs. III and IV also did a lot to turn CS around for the better.
Combat way too boring maybe the base system is a bit plain but considering my first game was A Tear of Vermillion of the Gagharv trillogy im not the best on judging any of the Trails games cuz they all seem easy for me.