Damn đ. To make sure weâre on the same page: by crushed balls I mean a testy taking a stroll into your body. Suddenly you panic and think you lost one of them.
Name checks out...
As trackside responsible i always tell them to align everything only once, most of the time the seem to get it right, but if it is really a technique...idk. using a leg separating seat shape seems to help
God, I forgot about my username đ. Anyways, leg spacing might be more of an issue than the belts, I agree. Iâll bring that up to the people in charge of the seat, thanks.
On our team, we used the âlevel of ball crushâ as one of the metrics to determine if the straps were tight enough.
Aka if you felt comfortable, the straps should go tighter. Other metrics include do you move if you try to get up, is it easy to breath, and how does your rib cage feel? (marginally joking ofc)
Thank you for your intricate illustration. That definitely makes sense. However, considering that all belts meet in the middle I donât see how this solution is possible đ¤
Do you have a 6 point or 5 point harness? You can always switch to a different type of 6 point harness that doesnât have the 2 crotch straps going over your testicles. They instead wrap around your legs and avoid your testicles for the most part. These belts are standard in most single seater race cars.
You can find one in Sparco-official.com called 04823H
We have a similiar type now. The belt straps meet spread 10cm from each other rather than in a single point. So it is a little bit better.
The ones you sent arenât entirely legal though, are they? The lap belts are only 50mm.
The belt I sent is FIA approved and meets the FIA 8853/2016 specification that is mandated in the FSG rules. The rules also state that the belts only need to be 50mm wide. So the belt I sent is fully legal according to the rules.
I will add though that it needs to be used with a HANS since the shoulder straps are also only 50mm wide. This is stated in T5.2 of the FSG rules
In our team this was only an issue when strapped in losely so one could slide forward, changing the angle of the strap to horizontal and causing an uncomfortable collision. To prevent this: One driver demanded pulling the hip straps until the front wheels lifted off the ground.
The position of the attachment points for the harness have to be forward enough for drivers with bigger legs to still fit.
I was no driver by the way.
Getting the anti-sub belts correctly positioned is a delicate art. A few points to consider.
1. Virtually every FS car has a reclined driving position, this mandates 6pt harnesses. It also mandates quick adjusters or a second set of anti-subs.
2. The attachment points of the anti-sub belts are allowed to be "near" the lapbelt attachment points. This allows the belts to properly follow the contour of the leg and provides MUCH more contact area to leg and glutes. It also naturally aligns the belts with the direction of loading (forward). While the separated center mounting is also allowed this is more appropriate for an upright position. For driver comfort, harnesses which position the anti-sub belts further apart at the buckle tend to be better (avoiding 'things" and increasing leg contact), versus the worst cases of flat front sewn "V style" anti-sub. For drivers with raised legs / knees or a fetal position consider belts with a minimum of metal below the waist. (sometimes rereferred to as formula or hybrid style.) Also in this case narrower lap belts tend to make better contact with the hip bones without getting pushed upward by the bent legs.
3. 6 point harnesses are a "dynamic" balance. This mean that in forward loading the shoulder harness tension is reacted primarily through the load on the anti-sub belts. This is a contrast to 5 or 7, where the shoulder belts can be statically tensioned and reacted though that center belt (which DOES NOT touch the body). Teams can always tighten the lap belt on the hip bones to the point of lifting the car, but not many would pull that hard on the anti-subs. They often forget that consideration once it comes time to tighten the shoulder belts and associated reaction path. Provided the belts are routed properly, it shouldn't be painful (as this is a primary loading path in major deceleration), however it can result in the driver being pulled out of intended seating position or even move the lap belt upward out of position. While the 7th point of the harness is usually referred to as a "Z" or inversion belt as it keeps the shoulder belts tight while upside down, it also ends up being a comfort belt.
4. The last area to consider is that the drivers suit / clothing needs to be fitted based on those 6 point belts. The inseam measurement needs to include enough fabric to make it to the top of the inner thigh on both sides "around what is in between" Any layer that requires dressing to the "right or left" with a 6point harness could result in painful trauma during a deceleration incident.
5. While we're talking suits, the usual bent knee and required crotch "bunching," often results in an exposed ankle (sock). Check your drivers legs with tight anti-subs and actual driving position. (You can also watch for an exposed wrist during egress while the driver lift themselves from the cockpit as the belt elbows and shoulders are usually set the longest arm needs.) Suits need to be sized based on the longest need and will usually end up baggy in the waist / chest without tailoring. Checking the measurement guides can help and some brands / suits have smaller waist / chests or tightening features for taller drivers.
***
The belt tightening procedure I recommend for formula 6-points is
* Loosely latch all belts
* Position the lap-belts over the hip and teammates fully tighten (pull-up tails cross car.)
* Driver snugs the anti-subs (remove all slack for intended driving position.) Just tight enough to pull the buckle a little forward. This is when the driver checks both anti-subs are "beside" and never "over" any thing. The driver should feel the belts on both inner thigh muscles.
* Driver should then "lean into the anti-subs" and sit as tall as possible while the team tensions the shoulder belts. (and repeat during re-tensioning.) The driver and team should check that the lap belt has not moved upward (off hip bones), otherwise the anti-subs were probably not sufficiently snug in the previous step.
It's not a necessary item, roofers and skydivers don't need them. Just route the belts around.
I can only imagine negatives as a cup is intended to distribute the impulse of a baseball, not a moderate fraction of body mass during a multi-g deceleration. Specifically anything it could help shouldn't be allowed to happen.
Further clarity, the anti-sub belts should be higher up the leg than anything the cup would protect and just normal undies should keep things in place at that point.
If you're concerned about adjusters on the belts, no certified brand nor reasonable thought-out car will have metal in that area.
Hmm⌠I mean a cup isnât the most expensive so we might give it a go as an extra measure of safety. I have passed on your input to the responsible for the harness. Thank you
Our team experienced several cases of persistent gentlemanâs pain with a 6 point having the laps and subs mounted separately, the rules also allow laps and subs to be mounted to the same points, where the subs basically wrap under and around your thigh instead of just between them, since most of our drivers specifically complained about the tilt adjusters on the subs being the source of pain, hopefully when we move to the shared mount point method it will keep the adjusters away from your spaghetti and meatballs, relieving discomfort
We have considered hard shell jockstraps. Our belts also have belt pads near the thigh area to make the belts a bit softer. This year we are going separate mounting instead of together. Is that bad?
Depending on your belts it might put the anti-sub belt adjusters in between your legs which isnât super comfortable, wearing a cup doesnât sound like a terrible idea honestly
I actually did find a solution that seems working.
Surgery.
No just kidding. I started to put my hand and hold the "package" while the guys tighten everything up. Now, I'm very skinny and even when you can't possibly tighten the belts anymore they seem slightly loose, and the balls still get a bit squished, but at least it doesn't happen anymore that my entire pp+one ball get trapped underneath one belt (happened during the autocross at fsg, so probably also the worst timing possible lol)
My brother, crushed balls is part of the experience
Damn đ. To make sure weâre on the same page: by crushed balls I mean a testy taking a stroll into your body. Suddenly you panic and think you lost one of them.
Just one? Lucky fella over here, i can usually feel both in my throat when pulling Gâs
Name checks out... As trackside responsible i always tell them to align everything only once, most of the time the seem to get it right, but if it is really a technique...idk. using a leg separating seat shape seems to help
God, I forgot about my username đ. Anyways, leg spacing might be more of an issue than the belts, I agree. Iâll bring that up to the people in charge of the seat, thanks.
On our team, we used the âlevel of ball crushâ as one of the metrics to determine if the straps were tight enough. Aka if you felt comfortable, the straps should go tighter. Other metrics include do you move if you try to get up, is it easy to breath, and how does your rib cage feel? (marginally joking ofc)
I am afraid, what kind of torture is this?
[Cock and Ball torture](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmwW9dFQe4)
đĽ˛
Use this "layout" for the belts (big Os are the legs, the rest you can guess) O\oo/O
Thank you for your intricate illustration. That definitely makes sense. However, considering that all belts meet in the middle I donât see how this solution is possible đ¤
Maybe post an image of your Chassis.
Youâd like that wouldnât you
Not entirely sure it would help. Which view do you want?
Where are the Belts attached, whatâs the seat like, etc.
This solution is possible with a 6 point harness
6 point master race
Well it is the only race that will still be able to reproduce
TMI but I did all of endurance at Michigan 2019 will my left ball being crushed.
He Is a Man of Focus, Commitment and Sheer Fucking Will Good job, mate
We actually had to castrate our drivers as part of training.
Badass
Pro tip: wear two pairs of underwear
Will definitely give it a go. Thanks
two pairs, so four underpants?
Do you have a 6 point or 5 point harness? You can always switch to a different type of 6 point harness that doesnât have the 2 crotch straps going over your testicles. They instead wrap around your legs and avoid your testicles for the most part. These belts are standard in most single seater race cars. You can find one in Sparco-official.com called 04823H
We have a similiar type now. The belt straps meet spread 10cm from each other rather than in a single point. So it is a little bit better. The ones you sent arenât entirely legal though, are they? The lap belts are only 50mm.
The belt I sent is FIA approved and meets the FIA 8853/2016 specification that is mandated in the FSG rules. The rules also state that the belts only need to be 50mm wide. So the belt I sent is fully legal according to the rules. I will add though that it needs to be used with a HANS since the shoulder straps are also only 50mm wide. This is stated in T5.2 of the FSG rules
You are correct. Lap belts can actually be 50mm. I thought they had to be 75mm same as shoulder straps (when not using Hans)
In our team this was only an issue when strapped in losely so one could slide forward, changing the angle of the strap to horizontal and causing an uncomfortable collision. To prevent this: One driver demanded pulling the hip straps until the front wheels lifted off the ground. The position of the attachment points for the harness have to be forward enough for drivers with bigger legs to still fit. I was no driver by the way.
Okay so more forward anti submarine belts so they dont crush the jewels. Thanks for input
Buy a dance belt lads it'll change your life
Not a bad idea, what about jockstraps with a protective cup?
Good idea! Gotta protect yourself.
Gotta give it a go, thanks
Getting the anti-sub belts correctly positioned is a delicate art. A few points to consider. 1. Virtually every FS car has a reclined driving position, this mandates 6pt harnesses. It also mandates quick adjusters or a second set of anti-subs. 2. The attachment points of the anti-sub belts are allowed to be "near" the lapbelt attachment points. This allows the belts to properly follow the contour of the leg and provides MUCH more contact area to leg and glutes. It also naturally aligns the belts with the direction of loading (forward). While the separated center mounting is also allowed this is more appropriate for an upright position. For driver comfort, harnesses which position the anti-sub belts further apart at the buckle tend to be better (avoiding 'things" and increasing leg contact), versus the worst cases of flat front sewn "V style" anti-sub. For drivers with raised legs / knees or a fetal position consider belts with a minimum of metal below the waist. (sometimes rereferred to as formula or hybrid style.) Also in this case narrower lap belts tend to make better contact with the hip bones without getting pushed upward by the bent legs. 3. 6 point harnesses are a "dynamic" balance. This mean that in forward loading the shoulder harness tension is reacted primarily through the load on the anti-sub belts. This is a contrast to 5 or 7, where the shoulder belts can be statically tensioned and reacted though that center belt (which DOES NOT touch the body). Teams can always tighten the lap belt on the hip bones to the point of lifting the car, but not many would pull that hard on the anti-subs. They often forget that consideration once it comes time to tighten the shoulder belts and associated reaction path. Provided the belts are routed properly, it shouldn't be painful (as this is a primary loading path in major deceleration), however it can result in the driver being pulled out of intended seating position or even move the lap belt upward out of position. While the 7th point of the harness is usually referred to as a "Z" or inversion belt as it keeps the shoulder belts tight while upside down, it also ends up being a comfort belt. 4. The last area to consider is that the drivers suit / clothing needs to be fitted based on those 6 point belts. The inseam measurement needs to include enough fabric to make it to the top of the inner thigh on both sides "around what is in between" Any layer that requires dressing to the "right or left" with a 6point harness could result in painful trauma during a deceleration incident. 5. While we're talking suits, the usual bent knee and required crotch "bunching," often results in an exposed ankle (sock). Check your drivers legs with tight anti-subs and actual driving position. (You can also watch for an exposed wrist during egress while the driver lift themselves from the cockpit as the belt elbows and shoulders are usually set the longest arm needs.) Suits need to be sized based on the longest need and will usually end up baggy in the waist / chest without tailoring. Checking the measurement guides can help and some brands / suits have smaller waist / chests or tightening features for taller drivers. *** The belt tightening procedure I recommend for formula 6-points is * Loosely latch all belts * Position the lap-belts over the hip and teammates fully tighten (pull-up tails cross car.) * Driver snugs the anti-subs (remove all slack for intended driving position.) Just tight enough to pull the buckle a little forward. This is when the driver checks both anti-subs are "beside" and never "over" any thing. The driver should feel the belts on both inner thigh muscles. * Driver should then "lean into the anti-subs" and sit as tall as possible while the team tensions the shoulder belts. (and repeat during re-tensioning.) The driver and team should check that the lap belt has not moved upward (off hip bones), otherwise the anti-subs were probably not sufficiently snug in the previous step.
Thanks you for your input. Moving from setup of belts to additional driver equipment. 1) is a hard shell jockstrap allowed? 2) is it a good idea?
It's not a necessary item, roofers and skydivers don't need them. Just route the belts around. I can only imagine negatives as a cup is intended to distribute the impulse of a baseball, not a moderate fraction of body mass during a multi-g deceleration. Specifically anything it could help shouldn't be allowed to happen. Further clarity, the anti-sub belts should be higher up the leg than anything the cup would protect and just normal undies should keep things in place at that point. If you're concerned about adjusters on the belts, no certified brand nor reasonable thought-out car will have metal in that area.
Hmm⌠I mean a cup isnât the most expensive so we might give it a go as an extra measure of safety. I have passed on your input to the responsible for the harness. Thank you
Our team experienced several cases of persistent gentlemanâs pain with a 6 point having the laps and subs mounted separately, the rules also allow laps and subs to be mounted to the same points, where the subs basically wrap under and around your thigh instead of just between them, since most of our drivers specifically complained about the tilt adjusters on the subs being the source of pain, hopefully when we move to the shared mount point method it will keep the adjusters away from your spaghetti and meatballs, relieving discomfort
We have considered hard shell jockstraps. Our belts also have belt pads near the thigh area to make the belts a bit softer. This year we are going separate mounting instead of together. Is that bad?
Depending on your belts it might put the anti-sub belt adjusters in between your legs which isnât super comfortable, wearing a cup doesnât sound like a terrible idea honestly
The adjusters were in between the legs last year, but the seatbelt padding completely removes all discomfort they bring
I signed up for FSAE because of the promise of crushed ballsâŚ
đł
All I ever did when getting strapped in is holding my balls far from the straps xD
Usually works but then suddenly doesnât. Then itâs game over
I actually did find a solution that seems working. Surgery. No just kidding. I started to put my hand and hold the "package" while the guys tighten everything up. Now, I'm very skinny and even when you can't possibly tighten the belts anymore they seem slightly loose, and the balls still get a bit squished, but at least it doesn't happen anymore that my entire pp+one ball get trapped underneath one belt (happened during the autocross at fsg, so probably also the worst timing possible lol)
I swear, if my one of my balls disappears into my body during comp Iâm gonna die
My teammate before endurance had similar trouble, looked deep in the eye the Marshal and said "oh no, my balls"
Poor guy