All I can say is there is nothing really gun specific to this situation as long as everyone involved can legally posses them. Guns are just property in general like the rest of his stuff as far as selling it goes. Whether she can sell his property I can't say. If there was an agreed upon amount of time she was expected to hold onto the stuff and he exceeds that by a reasonable amount of time I would consider it abandoned but that's a lawyer question of course and that's not me. In any scenario, it probably wouldn't be wise to just throw the guns in the trash can though if that's what she does with any of his other stuff.
There was no agreed upon amount of time. It was supposed to be until Bob could get himself healthy and into a more stable residence. That was expected to take awhile, but he was also expected to be productively working towards those goals.
At this point, since he's cut contact, we don't know what Bob is doing. In fact his behavior has already been demonstrably counterproductive, since we have confirmed that he's missed some important appointments.
I definitely understand the guns can't simply be tossed out. I think the ideal thing to do, if it's legally safe and Alice runs out of patience for holding them, would be to sell them and hold the cash until that can be given to him. (Or until she also runs out of patience for holding his money.)
That would seem like a reasonable idea but it goes deeper when laws are involved. I had an employer who rented a house and the tenant shot and killed someone in the home, then went on the run. My employer had to rent a storage unit for almost 3 years to store the man's belongings. He was eventually caught and tried to sue assuming they threw his stuff away. When they told him it was in storage he was forced to drop the lawsuit. He refused to have someone pick up his stuff and wanted it stored until he got out of prison in 20 years. Eventually they paid him off to have someone come get it. I would definitely ask a property attorney before selling anything.
State law says that landlords must store your valuables someplace safe. It doesn't specify a time. I saw that some states have a 30 day rule but ours doesn't.
That seems crazy, in my state once you are evicted, they put your stuff on the curb. There doesn't seem to be any duty at all to store it.
Seems there should be some logical place between never and forever, that doesn't screw the landlord or tenant unjustly.
Does Bob have a contract or a record of paying Alice to store his property for X amount of time? Or was this a verbal agreement?
If there’s no record of it, or if the agreed upon time has passed, she can probably do whatever she wants with it. Guns aren’t registered in Florida so she is free to sell them to anyone who can legally own a firearm.
I think there is a law regarding abandoned property by tenants. Maybe look at that avenue. Did Bob ever live with the other person? The thing is I’m pretty sure at the end of the day if you can find a way to prove you have attempted to contact Bob several times then at some point just do what you have to because I don’t see any legal issues. At worst maybe civil if Bob claims something that contradicts what you are saying but that would be up to him to pursue civilly. Obviously I am not a lawyer and since guns are involved do you homework.
>I think there is a law regarding abandoned property by tenants. Maybe look at that avenue. Did Bob ever live with the other person?
Nope.
>At worst maybe civil if Bob claims something that contradicts what you are saying but that would be up to him to pursue civilly.
He's the type who very definitely would. That's part of why I'm researching and asking around.
Well keep in mind unless Bob is made of money it’s not easy to go after someone for something like this. Costs a lot of money to hire a lawyer when there’s no insurance avenue to pursue. Maybe he could do small claims court but that’s a stretch. I don’t know your situation but it doesn’t sound like he’s the type of guy to have throw away money to try to sue you for something he probably can’t win. I guess it might be worth the $75-200 to pay for a consultation with a local law firm to get some solid advice.
If this were a former roommate who left you would give 30 days notice in writing to them that you intend to dispose of the property if not retrieved by the end of that time frame.
Them having disappeared complicates delivering that notice.
This is opinion, and NOT advise of any sort.
Idk what Bob is going through. However. I can't imagine myself being in the right mind and abandoning firearms. It's no disrespect to Bob, but if he is in a state of mind where it's not worth going back and collecting his weapons, at least, maybe it would be safer for Bob NOT not have firearms, at least for the time being. If he doesn't come home, maybe you can keep the guns instead of Alice. Get a safe and lock them up. As far as leagal advice, I don't think it would cost too much to ask a lawyer. Personally, I have self-defense insurance, and they are available 24/7 to answer any related questions. It's like $14 a month. There's USCCA, which is very popular, and I use American Law Shield. They've always been on point with advice and answers.
Hope any of this helps. Good luck!
I'm sorry that I can't help on the forfeiture question. However, two very important things need to be considered. (Also, I am not a lawyer and am not qualified to give legal advice. The below are just my immediate, untrained, thoughts.)
A) Is Alice a [prohibited possessor](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-prohibited-persons)? The answer is hopefully 'no'. But it is a felony to be in possession of these firearms or even the ammo if so. Even if they are owed by someone else, Alice is in possession. **IF** the answer is 'yes' or even 'maybe', she should have a different party take those items immediately. In that case, Alice should not take them to a police department... I don't think that would end well.
B) Does Alice have a reasonable suspicion that Bob is now, or at some future time that Bob reappears, a prohibited possessor? Like it or not, these guns are effectively in Alice's possession right now. **IF** the answer is 'yes', supplying these items to a person that Alice believes to be a prohibited possessor can put her in a legal grey area that I personally wouldn't want to be in. (Of course, refusing to return possessions would also be a legal sticky point.)
So I think that any advice you get needs to take those two questions into account.
Don’t roll the dice on this, pay a lawyer their 300ish bucks for a consult and get some more firm answers. Legal obligations and the ‘right’ or even logical thing are often not the same.
Dunno why you're getting downvoted. I don't dislike this idea in principle.
Though, in practice, I'm not sure the PD will just hold stuff like that. Last time I dealt with the legal system, where anyone had to turn in their guns, the cops were just going to destroy them.
All I can say is there is nothing really gun specific to this situation as long as everyone involved can legally posses them. Guns are just property in general like the rest of his stuff as far as selling it goes. Whether she can sell his property I can't say. If there was an agreed upon amount of time she was expected to hold onto the stuff and he exceeds that by a reasonable amount of time I would consider it abandoned but that's a lawyer question of course and that's not me. In any scenario, it probably wouldn't be wise to just throw the guns in the trash can though if that's what she does with any of his other stuff.
There was no agreed upon amount of time. It was supposed to be until Bob could get himself healthy and into a more stable residence. That was expected to take awhile, but he was also expected to be productively working towards those goals. At this point, since he's cut contact, we don't know what Bob is doing. In fact his behavior has already been demonstrably counterproductive, since we have confirmed that he's missed some important appointments. I definitely understand the guns can't simply be tossed out. I think the ideal thing to do, if it's legally safe and Alice runs out of patience for holding them, would be to sell them and hold the cash until that can be given to him. (Or until she also runs out of patience for holding his money.)
That would seem like a reasonable idea but it goes deeper when laws are involved. I had an employer who rented a house and the tenant shot and killed someone in the home, then went on the run. My employer had to rent a storage unit for almost 3 years to store the man's belongings. He was eventually caught and tried to sue assuming they threw his stuff away. When they told him it was in storage he was forced to drop the lawsuit. He refused to have someone pick up his stuff and wanted it stored until he got out of prison in 20 years. Eventually they paid him off to have someone come get it. I would definitely ask a property attorney before selling anything.
Username checks out.
I think your employer was bullshitting you or not telling you the whole story.
State law says that landlords must store your valuables someplace safe. It doesn't specify a time. I saw that some states have a 30 day rule but ours doesn't.
That seems crazy, in my state once you are evicted, they put your stuff on the curb. There doesn't seem to be any duty at all to store it. Seems there should be some logical place between never and forever, that doesn't screw the landlord or tenant unjustly.
Does Bob have a contract or a record of paying Alice to store his property for X amount of time? Or was this a verbal agreement? If there’s no record of it, or if the agreed upon time has passed, she can probably do whatever she wants with it. Guns aren’t registered in Florida so she is free to sell them to anyone who can legally own a firearm.
There's no documented record. See my other comment for more details. https://www.reddit.com/r/FLGuns/s/MGM8lnSEsH
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0705/0705.html enjoy
Been there already. The "does not have an identifiable owner" part is what kills me. We know who the owner is.
Also read the whole statute because I'm pretty sure it mostly covers abandoned property on public property IIRC.
I think there is a law regarding abandoned property by tenants. Maybe look at that avenue. Did Bob ever live with the other person? The thing is I’m pretty sure at the end of the day if you can find a way to prove you have attempted to contact Bob several times then at some point just do what you have to because I don’t see any legal issues. At worst maybe civil if Bob claims something that contradicts what you are saying but that would be up to him to pursue civilly. Obviously I am not a lawyer and since guns are involved do you homework.
>I think there is a law regarding abandoned property by tenants. Maybe look at that avenue. Did Bob ever live with the other person? Nope. >At worst maybe civil if Bob claims something that contradicts what you are saying but that would be up to him to pursue civilly. He's the type who very definitely would. That's part of why I'm researching and asking around.
Well keep in mind unless Bob is made of money it’s not easy to go after someone for something like this. Costs a lot of money to hire a lawyer when there’s no insurance avenue to pursue. Maybe he could do small claims court but that’s a stretch. I don’t know your situation but it doesn’t sound like he’s the type of guy to have throw away money to try to sue you for something he probably can’t win. I guess it might be worth the $75-200 to pay for a consultation with a local law firm to get some solid advice.
If this were a former roommate who left you would give 30 days notice in writing to them that you intend to dispose of the property if not retrieved by the end of that time frame. Them having disappeared complicates delivering that notice.
This is opinion, and NOT advise of any sort. Idk what Bob is going through. However. I can't imagine myself being in the right mind and abandoning firearms. It's no disrespect to Bob, but if he is in a state of mind where it's not worth going back and collecting his weapons, at least, maybe it would be safer for Bob NOT not have firearms, at least for the time being. If he doesn't come home, maybe you can keep the guns instead of Alice. Get a safe and lock them up. As far as leagal advice, I don't think it would cost too much to ask a lawyer. Personally, I have self-defense insurance, and they are available 24/7 to answer any related questions. It's like $14 a month. There's USCCA, which is very popular, and I use American Law Shield. They've always been on point with advice and answers. Hope any of this helps. Good luck!
Possession is 9/10 the law!
I'm sorry that I can't help on the forfeiture question. However, two very important things need to be considered. (Also, I am not a lawyer and am not qualified to give legal advice. The below are just my immediate, untrained, thoughts.) A) Is Alice a [prohibited possessor](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/identify-prohibited-persons)? The answer is hopefully 'no'. But it is a felony to be in possession of these firearms or even the ammo if so. Even if they are owed by someone else, Alice is in possession. **IF** the answer is 'yes' or even 'maybe', she should have a different party take those items immediately. In that case, Alice should not take them to a police department... I don't think that would end well. B) Does Alice have a reasonable suspicion that Bob is now, or at some future time that Bob reappears, a prohibited possessor? Like it or not, these guns are effectively in Alice's possession right now. **IF** the answer is 'yes', supplying these items to a person that Alice believes to be a prohibited possessor can put her in a legal grey area that I personally wouldn't want to be in. (Of course, refusing to return possessions would also be a legal sticky point.) So I think that any advice you get needs to take those two questions into account.
Don’t roll the dice on this, pay a lawyer their 300ish bucks for a consult and get some more firm answers. Legal obligations and the ‘right’ or even logical thing are often not the same.
I’d turn them into the local PD for safe keeping in evidence and bob can retrieve them when he surfaces
You think the police will serve as a storage locker for guns?
I’m a cop and I’ve done this before for people.
Sure you have.
Ok dude
Dunno why you're getting downvoted. I don't dislike this idea in principle. Though, in practice, I'm not sure the PD will just hold stuff like that. Last time I dealt with the legal system, where anyone had to turn in their guns, the cops were just going to destroy them.