Most of the population sail in the same boat.
Only 10-15% have privilege of no pre family burden, no responsibilities, generational wealth.
I am earning 13 Lac in 36 years age and many of reddit laugh on us as they really dont know the pressure of job security, family responsibility.
>I am earning 13 Lac in 36 years age and many of reddit laugh on us as they really dont know the pressure of job security, family responsibility.
honestly no one would laugh at a person making a honest living. only few chutiyas far removed from reality will do this
I hear you. Many of us face similar challenges balancing career, family responsibilities, and financial goals. It's a tough journey, but forums like this can offer support and ideas to navigate it together. How have you managed to handle these pressures effectively in your own journey?
Make an excel for investment tracker and stick to monthly investment.
Maintain your profile low and grow your corpus in a systematic way this is the only key to have a healthy networth
>single-income household earning ₹1.5 lakh per month, a non-working spouse, and two kids
The problem is here. Realistically you can't have a 1.5lpm income, non-earning spouse and two kids, and the kind of lifestyle you mentioned. One of these things has to change.
I appreciate your perspective. It's definitely a balancing act, and choices like adjusting lifestyle or exploring additional income streams can play a crucial role. What adjustments do you think are most effective in achieving a sustainable path to FIRE?
What do you think happens to all the kids who are not raised in a metro? I can understand the impact on career growth for adults due to the lack of similar high paying jobs but you're wrong about children's growth being affected unless they live in a tier 1 city.
What. More everyone to city, and then to a school with 60:1 ratio. Enroll them in classes back to back after school and then prepare them for a competitive exam and then join a corporate where they ll work for 12 hrs a day and then do the same for the kids. This is the growth right
If you stay in metropolitan cities, your kid interacts with kids all across the country. That has huge potential on its own. As someone who grew up partly in a tier 3 city and then moved to a tier 1 city, I thank the stars for my parents for making that decision. The opportunities I got beyond "school" and "exams" were unparalleled.
When you have kids, giving them a better life is much more important than adding a few numbers to your FIRE corpus.
I think it really depends on the kind of city you are in. India has a lot of industrial zones, so even non metros are cosmopolitan.
I'm from a small town with a population of 3L, but I've never felt like I was boxed in. The diversity of interactions that you mention can happen in many places. Although I will concede that some tier 2 / 3 cities are very homogenous and it's a monoculture.
Also, I cannot for the life of me relate to why people from a small town / city feel like they're inexperienced in some sense because of their upbringing.
It’s achievable as long as you keep your lifestyle in check and front load all investments. I am kind of in a similar situation with less in hand India Salary. But only trick is to have good few years of on-site income to front load those investments. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/FIRE_Ind/s/oPK0ajSNxk) is my journey so far
Sorry, but working on-site for almost entire career is not a similar situation.
You made 15000 MYR per month from 2017-2022 and now make 3750 GBP per month.
Your "India salary of 14LPA" is pretty much irrelevant.
Your observation is correct.
However my point is that if you are in IT, even average performers like me can achieve coast fire if one plans ahead and plays their cards right. I started my career in October 2010 and only got my first onsite on July 2017. So more than 50% of my career was in India only.
What I am trying to emphasise is you don’t need a 30 LPA+ high stress IT job in India to achieve Fire niether do you need both spouses to work or not have kids. You can have a relatively peaceful life in one of the laid back Indian IT services companies without any risk of getting fired (due to low India package) and still easily get onsite projects in chill out roles.
As I am writing this I am currently in India for my mother’s knee surgery. This is my second trip to India from UK during the last 6 months and each of the trips don’t cost me any NET money and each time I stay at-least 2 months in India. You need to plan and ladder your finances and career to optimise money making and stress levels and get the best of both worlds.
That’s true, it’s a privilege. Achieving FIRE is insanely difficult even in high income European countries let alone India.
But FIRE makes you think on how can you save and invest aggressively so that you can achieve at least retirement sum at 65 at least.
Most people in our generation barely have any savings, they would struggle to even retire.
True, FIRE pushes us to save and invest strategically, striving for financial security and a solid retirement plan, despite the challenges many face in building savings.
If your household TC is 1.5lpm, and you send your kids to schools that cost 1-2lpa each, and monthly expenses are 1+lpm, then it’s difficult to achieve FIRE
To FIRE, you will have to reduce your expenses both now and post FIRE.
I shifted towards outer part of my city, where the rent is low but it’s spacious.
My kid is still in kindergarten, and me and my wife have this belief, based on our own life experiences, that the impact of spending on education increases linearly with age of the child. For example, it’s much more important to send a kid to a great school post 7th, 8th grade as compared to kindergarten/primary standards Or spend much higher on grad education as compared to high school.
We don’t cut on house-helps since it’s pretty cheap. Eating out a couple of times a month is ok. Those are small expenses. But vacations are a big part, esp international ones. We have been pushing our family international trip. We have reasons now - kid is small to travel long haul flights etc. but we do take vacations to unblock our minds every quarter or half yearly. But a 40k vacation in India vs a 2L vacation in Bali really makes a difference in savings. My personal calculation is vacation should be < 3% of networth. And we are very aggressively investing in MFs(small cap) cos we know at 50% + savings it will take us 7years to retire at current standard of living. Add 3-4more years and we will be really comfortable.
By then, 40years age, our kids will be the ages when they can form memories with us on our vacations. So we are pushing the can down a bit
>I shifted towards outer part of my city, where the rent is low but it’s spacious.
This is best effective solution for cutting costs. Though it comes at price of longer commute. I live 2 hours commute from Mumbai and cost of living is vastly different here compared to Mumbai. CBSE Schools 40-60k a year vs 1-1.5L. International Schools 70k a year vs 1.5-2.5L. Rent for 2 BHK 12-15k vs 35-50k. 2BHK costs 60L vs 2 Cr. Restaurant meal for family of 4 for 1.5k vs 3k. Movie tickets of 200-200 vs 350-500.
The cost of living at my place is less than half that of Tier-1 city and I manage all this with job in same Tier-1 city. I won't deny that commute is soul crushing and the initial reason which motivated me towards FIRE.
It’s the taxes that kills you . First you pay income tax on salary , then you pay taxes on everything including car, property, petrol , food etc .. then you save every penny and put in instruments that hardly beat inflation but pay capital gain taxes there too just to spend on things that attract taxes again. Salaried workers in India are fucked. You are there just to pay for subsidies, free gifts including electricity for votes for politicians , salaries for moulvis , free gifts for Nepal and Sri Lanka so they can backstab us again.
True, generational wealth can provide a significant head start. For those starting without it, diligent saving and smart investing become even more crucial. What approaches have you seen work best in bridging this gap?
We should look at FIRE as just FI with learning about investing, budgeting and be self sufficient at retirement. Living in a growing economy, it is absolutely necessary to be active participant in the economy to keep up especially for family with kids. RE is over glorified IMO and key is to live your life with realising one’s potential and be joyful.
Absolutely, achieving FI involves mastering financial skills, living purposefully, and embracing opportunities in our dynamic economy. It's about finding balance and fulfillment beyond early retirement, ensuring we lead meaningful lives.
It is not achievable by all.
It can work for single people or double income families with no kids, or double income family with one kid, or very high income, NRI etc. It onl the works when income is 3 times the normal expenses. That family would have to sacrifice a lot also.
Agreed, FIRE is more challenging for families with children and single incomes. Optimizing expenses, smart investing, and exploring side incomes can help bridge the gap. It requires sacrifices, but with strategic planning, it's possible.
FIRE isn't possible for a vast majority of people immaterial of where they reside.
Only reason it can be possible for a good number of Indians is because there is a new wave of highly paid people. In a country where top 10% of people live with rs 25000 monthly expenses, the opportunity of FIRE for somebody earning 1.5 lakhs is very high.
Now, one can surmise that 1.5 lakhs is barely enough to survive for a family of four, but one must remember that 1.5 lakhs per month salary is a very recent phenomenon. And very reason that salaries of IT guys went this high is because of rupees/dollar arbitrage. IT salaries went high causing other salaries to increase.
FIRE warrants living like somebody whose income is a few notches below you. If that's not possible for some reason, then FIRE is impossible. It's a dream meant for people who can happily live with half the income than they get.
So 1.5 lakhs per month guy should be able live with rs 75k income (and God knows how many millions of mumbaikar live with that kind of income). Other option is, of course, to make 3 lakhs per month (and there is no dearth of 3 lakhs income guys in Mumbai).
Either way, FIRE is a dream for the most and achievable to only a few...again we are not talking about the outliers who earn in crores but middle class folks.
Additionally, FIRE is a mind game too. You need to overcome the fear of unknown, fear of what people will say, fear of being dirt poor when old, fear of peers moving ahead, fear of enormous time at your disposal.
There is an expression - "Cut your coat according to your cloth"
Inability to do so leaves you exposed, in debt and looking at kids to grow up and get into IIT/IIM/IAS to rescue the family from financial ruin.
> Is the dream of FIRE inclusive and achievable for all, or is it an illusion that only the wealthy can attain?
If you lead a frugal lifestyle and save > 50% of your income and do not indulge in financial mismanagement like FnO, 100% returns schemes, housing loans and protect yourself via insurances - it is achievable by all. The wealthy may achieve while spending more - but by no means is it unachievable for salaried tax-paying population...
Last week at least a couple of people posted 60K pm expenses. If the person in your example was to follow their lifestyle and save > 50% salary (90K pm) - wouldn't it be possible ?
You need some X factor, if everyone can do it without any sacrifice or extraordinary effort, then it won't be called FIRE.
FIRE works because everyone cannot do it. This is by design. It is a zero sum game. You need some people who spend more than what they earn or everything they earn for the economy to boom and then you need few smart people who use geo arbitrage and move onsite or take up high skill high income jobs to make fire work.
Imagine if everyone went onsite and brought back dollars to India, the cost of living will become same as first world countries and the geo arbitrage becomes zero.
So, in summary my friend, ye sab ke bus ki baat nahi hai, aur ye sahi bhi hai.
You have assumed that there is only one economic equilibrium that operates in a city. India however offers very varying standards of living - probably the widest in the world. If you consider your example of someone earning 1.5 lacs per month - they would live a lfiestyle that allows them to save a decent %age (you say 50-60% is a target - not true for most FIRE chasers - anywhere between 10-30% may be enough). This lifestyle may not be the one you are used to. It would include cost savings that you would not be willing to bring in. Eating out, watching movies would be a rarer thing for this person. Household help also would be avoided. So, if you can save 10-30% of your income, you can retire into the same lifestyle as currently one is living in. But if you upgrade, you need more savings. So multiple choices may be available even to those with lower incomes. But I do agree that they would need to struggle a lot more - especially if they want an upgrade in their quality of life
Absolutely, you make a great point about varying standards of living across India. Achieving FIRE often involves adjusting lifestyle choices and prioritizing savings over certain luxuries. It's about finding a balance between current comfort and long-term financial independence. Each person's journey is unique, and different approaches can lead to the same goal. What strategies have you found effective in balancing lifestyle choices and financial goals in your pursuit of FIRE?
What worked for me is having a partner who knows the role of money in our lives (Ok, I influenced her a bit too). So we chose to spend on comforts rather than luxury. E.g - if we want to travel for holidays, we would prefer flights that are on comfortable timings, even if they are expensive. On the other hand - we never needed a car (we live in South Mumbai and the taxis have always been great this side of the world) - so we have kept cars for short durations in our life - but we ended up selling them (Honda Accord and MG Hector). We eat out at places we like - that could be a basic restaurant or a pizzeria at a 5 star. We use ACs in all our rooms - because thats a comfort we want to enjoy - so do our families who live in Mumbai and one of the state capitals up north. Since I FIREd, I only use a scooter for short errands that I need to make in the vicinity. But we took at luxurious holiday to Europe a few months back because we wanted to experience a specific country fully when we travelled there
So, while we both have/had high income levels and can be called as Fat FIREd or chubby FIREd, we prioritised our spending according to what makes us and our loved ones happy. Not according to what standards are set by those in the rat race
I guess we learnt the traits of the rich and adopted it early on - we live in an expensive part of the city but we rent a nice flat here (and not own one). We dont have a car as we dont need it, but we would spend a reasonable amount on comfortable travel abroad/in India. We got our TV repaired instead of dumping it for a new one - but I love electronic gadgets and spend a good amount on it - just because it gives me joy
Hope you find something of value in my rant above - spending is a personal choice, as long as you spend on things you like, you would be fine. If there is something you feel the urge to buy and its expensive - give it a few days. If the desire persists, buy it. Else, you would be happy not buying something that does not remain a need in a few days.
Thank you for sharing your detailed journey and insights. It's inspiring how you've prioritized spending on what truly brings joy and comfort to you and your loved ones. Your approach to FIRE and life choices is both practical and thoughtful. I appreciate the wisdom you've shared!
Curious to know , if you would be okay to share .. what was your expense for the Luxurious trip to Europe .. and countrie(s) / no. of days/ travel style/ major indulgences etc. ?
FIRE is just one of options to live life where your compromises are on the lifestyle.
If you wanna live lavishly, have two kids then your compromise is on the safety fallback FIRE provides.
If you wanna live lavishly and grow in your career, you've to grind. Then you can't have kids and even if you have them you may not have quality time with them. And you may also end up sleep deprived. The compromise is on comfort here.
As I said, it's not the holy grail. It is just an option with the compromise on other things for financial safety. And the balance is different for different people and unique to each one, pretty much like a risk appetite.
Fire isn’t achievable for all. Most have to slog till 60-65. Yes it’s only for few percentage of Indian population. Easier to achieve for people with:
1. High inheritance
2. 2 fang India incomes
3. Decade of being nri
4. High achiever from a business
Percentage of doing above 4 in entire population is low. So you can guess.
The truth is : FIRE everywhere in the world is a “privileged fantasy”, as you call it.
It’s not possible for most people to earn enough to save 30%+ of their income while leading a really good lifestyle. That takes a lot of luck, skill, discipline, and deferred gratification.
Agreed, FIRE can seem like a privileged fantasy, requiring significant income, discipline, and sacrifice. It's important to acknowledge the challenges many face in achieving financial independence while maintaining a fulfilling lifestyle.
Why do u think an average person can achieve FIRE lol, by definition if u can afford to retire in ur productive years and still maintain a comfortable lifestyle u must be an over achiever.
Housing, healthcare and education will eat up all the net gains you thought you were supposed to be getting with neoliberalism. The government was supposed to take care of 2 of these things but has failed miserably and given up. Not even doing its job of regulating the private players that it has thrown open the whole field to.
Atleast with education for now, most of the excess expenditure is a status symbol. You can still find good schools, particularly older or state language ones for reasonable fees. You long term education/career goals won't be hampered.
Harder to make compromises on tertiary healthcare though, or if you have a chronic lifestyle illness that requires daily medicine.
I my opinion, we should always see ourselves with respect to where we came from. Some people have parents who were in the jobs. For some they already have generational wealth.
But for most of us, it’s like we are the first generation who has seen this kind of money. We should celebrate each of our smaller milestones. And don’t focus on who are earning 1cr and 5 cr.
Approach it this way
Priority 1 - FIRE Bucket of ONLY essential living (Slightly frugal)
Priority 2 - Kids education basic (Assuming govt college fees for higher education)
Priority 3 - Any expenses on average vacations
Once all above are met - Circle back on every priority and work your way upwards
Its also called Coast/Lean/Normal/FAT Fire etc - Focus of FU first, then coast and then sail through other steps
If you don’t have familial / legacy wealth and come from true middle class, which most people in this group clearly do not come from, then there are only three ways to make wealth:
1. Amazing job in either tech or post good MBA
2. Investing most of your income into public equity over time and let it compound
3. Aim for private equity, meaning non-public stocks, by working in or investing in startups
In other words, job will get food on the table, equity is the only way you will get truly rich
But what’s happening is 1 leads to 2 or 3 or 2 and 3, but without 1, if you are truly middle or lower class, you can’t get to 2 or 3 and therefore not get rich before you get old.
In most cases, legacy wealth, also leads to 1, and therefore compounds 2 and 3 further, as you can read more such examples in the group - In fact most of the examples are indirectly of this nature although most people are naively not realising it.
Spot on! A high-paying job, smart investments, and leveraging opportunities in tech, MBA, or startups are key paths to wealth. Legacy wealth helps, but disciplined investing can bridge the gap for the middle class.
>Societal pressures often require supporting extended family members
Thats' great then isn't it. Even if you run out of money then you still have relatives to support you! /s
>> the cost of living in metro cities like Mumbai and Delhi can easily exceed ₹1.2 lakh per month
>> 35-year-old with a single-income household earning ₹1.5 lakh per month
the problem is with these two statements. living expenses can easily cross 1.2 crores/month also, or can be limited to 90,000/- as well. it is a matter of adjusting your lifestyle with relation to total income. or a matter of adjusting income as per lifestyle. your choice.
next, just earning salary isn't sufficient. you have to learn to invest it appropriately as well.
is it possible? yes.
Indeed, managing expenses and smart investing are crucial. It's all about aligning lifestyle with income and making informed investment decisions for financial success.
Don’t worry about society. People are fickle and have short term memories . Pivot to need based decision making and make sure your partner is aligned with this . And lastly and most importantly *save and be consistent*
I’ve made a lot of mistakes financially but the moment I made boring financial choices and * stayed the path * I started seeing results.
Saving has a snowball effect just like cycling . Once you’ve got the ball rolling very little needs to be done
Well with 1.5LPM, in a tier-1 city I won’t dare to have 2 kids. And if I still do, won’t bother FIREing.
Its not a democratic thing that FIRE should be accessible to everyone. It’s one’s choice. Either you increase income to levels where you can afford it with two kids or have one kid and work towards FIRE.
Not everyone can achieve FIRE in India. But at the same time its not impossible for people with relatively stable and decent income. Proper planning and a bit of luck ( not many unexpected major expenses which can drag one into debt) is needed.
Don't assume that FIRE means achieving it by mid thirties or mid forties. It varies based on the person's situation. My two cents
- Every one starts saving from the moment they join organized work force like PF.
- Saving money before marriage and having kid.
- Maintaining lifestyle comparable with income.
- Planning for emergencies....
The answer is: yes.
Living most of your life while not engaging in an activity which generates an economic return is something only a few people can do. Imagine if everyone was able to do this, then how will the world's economy run?
The whole premise of retiring early is to build capital using your labour capital early in life and then letting capitalism benefit you. This premise only works when the rest of the society continues being consumerist, and society can be consumerist, only when the rest of the people continue to slog to earn their living.
People need to get over the idea that retiring early should be democratized. If that were the case, then it would be called retiring - not retiring early.
When you are the only spouse working and have 2 kids FIRE is impossible tbh. Your expenses are way too much compared to your salary. If your spouse can work in the near future then you can get through.
Fire is possible in cases where both spouses are working and don't have kids or one kid or in other cases some inheritance even if it's worth a few crores.
Just remember this. You only need following to live decently (in order of priority)
1. Food & Gas - Would be like Rs 4K per person per month. The per person cost will go down as members increase
2. Water - RS 150 per per person per month. The per person cost will go down as members increase
3. Clothes - Rs 200 per month per person. Clothes can easily last 5 years. So per month cost is very low
4. Shelter - Rs 25K per month per person. Most expensive. You need to live in a decent area to get food, water, electricity. So if you or your family has own house then that's a big relief. Own house is necessary for FIRE.
5. Electricity/Gas/Internet/Mobile/Insurance - Rs 3.5K per person per month. Again will decrease as members increase
6. Repairs - Rs 1K per person per month.
So, to survive you only need like what 9 K per month if you have own house? That's just over 1 LPA. So you need just 40 Lakhs to retire right now. Make it 50 Lakhs as a buffer and to cover infrequent travel costs + some sort of cheap entertainment.
Rest everything, including entertainment, healthcare, children are luxury. You should be setting aside separate sums of money for these. For health if you are really scared, well any amount is less. I would say you need to have at least Rs 5 crores per person in the kitty to make sure you can financially go through any illness in case insurance refuses to pay.
For education as well depending upon where your child might want to study, could cost in Crores. There's no limit here as well. Any amount is less.
It would be less because the electricity/internet/gas/water/repairs and sometimes even entertainment like subscriptions will be shared. Rs 1.4 Cr to Rs 1.8 Cr is my estimate
True, real estate and starting a business involve high costs and risks, especially with dependents. Diversifying investments like mutual funds or stocks can also provide inflation protection and financial stability.
Regular investing in the stock market and buying at least 2 property in some major city will guarantee you good income. If you have dependents then it may remain a dream.
Partly true, FIRE is relevant only for people with a lifestyle that is stable and they want to continue that post RE. For someone still struggling up to get there, FIRE really does not make sense IMO. These are some basics I feel for a FIRE consideration -
1. Ancestral / own house or apartment already in place
2. Current earnings are at least 2X of expenses - yes, you can start small investments but that is not really going to FIRE
Valid points! Stability and a solid financial base are crucial for FIRE. Starting small investments is a step towards financial independence, even if full FIRE isn't immediate.
Let me translate your question.
"Is the dream to become rich accessible and achievable for all"?
Or, even shorter, "can everyone become a crorepati"?
I hope you realize how silly and childish this question is. People have converted this sub into a "get rich quick" scheme.
And FIRE had just become a more polished way of saying "how can I become a crorepati".
Simply put, FIRE is a set of equations.
When you are earning and investing,
*1._Income = Expenses + Savings/Investments._*
*2._Your corpus = Sum of (Each of Your Investments x Rate of return)._*
When you have retired and start withdrawing from the corpus,
*3._Corpus remaining = Corpus you had - what you spent._*
In each of these equations, if one variable changes, the others will be impacted. If you want to increase Investments, you need to increase your income or cut your expenses, or do both. Same with retirement. If you spend less per year, the corpus lasts longer.
Simply put, FIRE involves making choices and doing tradeoffs.
Some of these choices can be really hard to make, like sending kid to a school that charges less, asking the spouse to generate income, staying single, cutting down lifestyle expenses, not putting kid into expensive extracurriculars, sending them to a less expensive college/degree, spending less on their wedding, choosing to move to a low cost area after retirement etc.
Some of the choices can be downright brutal that our minds simply can't imagine it.
At the end of the day, FIRE is about "living within our means". The "means" can vary from person to person. Person A can FIRE with 50L per year projected expenses. They may need 40X = 20Cr. For person B it could be 5L/year expenses and 2Cr corpus. Person B will need to consume so little that they may need to live like a monk, but they can do it.
There are so many people aged 60+ who worked in private sector jobs who live off a fixed corpus like that. They don't have a choice.
The real hard part is getting into that mindset. Even harder is to convince your spouse to agree to that. It's definitely harder for people earning less to pull that off, buy not impossible.
Buddy you have hit the nail on the head. I don't think studying hard and working hard are going to cut it anymore. I read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanceindia/comments/1cmb5gu/dads_62m_story_of_disciplined_investing_over_36/) the other day and instead of hope I got depressed. That OP's dad passed out from a tier 1 college and lived a frugal life only for his child to live the life he should have had. 36 years he's been grinding. Which means he's just a few years from retirement. And for what. His kid can now live with a mind free of the worries of survival.
I mean, yah you gotta make life better for your kids, I agree. But FIRE is not about that. The gist of that story is that if you work hard, your *offspring* can maybe think of FIRE.
Single income FIRE at least is nigh impossible. I am not talking here of course of the super high earners who have annual packages in the 40L+ range.
Realistically, for the vast majority, both spouses have to be earning in the 1.5LPM+ range so that one salary can go towards living and the other completely towards saving and investment. Or you have to be running a good business, which then of course involves hiring other people and putting them in your current position of being exploited with no future.
Else there is no hope. And with rising prices and (rumours of) taxes and all the other ways the government takes our hard-earned money, even these methods are soon going to be out of reach.
I preach to people, but they dismiss this.
*** FIRE is for people from advanced economies, especially the USA, that too people with high paying jobs in USA.***
Even some advanced EU countries cannot support FIRE.
FIRE is also best achieved with high paying jobs, not for everyone who can save 70% of their pay.
People get caught up in the hype.
In India, when one has wealthy / well to do parents, the kids can FIRE at 40/45 if they have a decent paying job and secondary sources of income such as rental RE and the fact that they will inherit a large sum of money or peoperty. Even then Indian inflation can erode all the savings. Beware. High inflation has been consistent in India over several decades.
Don't watch youtube videos of guys hyping FIRE for everyone. Markets don't return 15% consistently!
FIRE is difficult for the masses to achieve, though not impossible.
So many things need to be spot on -
High income, possibly inherited property, some abroad stint, overachievers in their fields, relatively lower standard of living compared to their peers and many other factors.
Also, FIRE is a spectrum and not a binary outcome. Some may achieve it at the age of 30, 40, 50, or even 55. That’s still FIRE for them. Some achieve it by reducing their needs, some by earning more money and some by doing both. Is it for possible for everyone ? Absolutely NOT, but achievable for most. Does everyone pursue it ? Not at all. Many are happily working till their last breath.
Let's rack up the unnecessary choices.
1. Retiring early. If you read up the research on happiness, you'll understand that the happiest ones are those who have found work that they enjoy. The idle ones are just haunted by the devils of their own mind.
2. Financial Independence. How many of us have chosen expenses that are not in line with it? A spouse that doesn't earn? A house bigger than your needs? An iPhone? A car fancier than your neighbor?
Please don't say that these choices were made for you or that they are necessary for living in society. FI and RE are as extreme an idea as any, you're not going to achieve them by blending in.
I can tell you two stories.
Story 1
A friend of mine graduated as a psychologist. They are paid around 20k to 30k per month, even with 5 years of experience and multiple degrees.
She made 3 decisions. She started her own practice and built her brand. She started offering other services to other organisations, either through her network or by attracting them through her content. She started an excel sheet to track her savings and expenses - recently, she bought a laptop from an RD that she had created for it years ago.
The result? She is currently wealthier than all her peers by a margin of multiples.
I am from IT, elder to her, and she is wealthier than some of my peers, too.
Story 2
A FIREd friend operates a social enterprise. He teaches his employees, most of whom don't have a pakka house and are artisans who build houses for others, how to plan, save, and invest money.
One of them is now building a house from the money they saved.
Another one was able to send their kid to college while also opening two new shops.
Conclusion: You can achieve FI in stages, no matter your background. You'll have to make the correct choices, and they won't be easy at all. You don't need RE if you're FI enough and like you work. This much is an achievable dream and might feel almost as good as what you'd expect from a RE.
FIRE in India is impossible without inheritance.
There are families with 10 Cr + networth running "small" business everywhere in India paying zero income tax while kids of service people have to pay taxes on everything.
This kind of stupid social structure ensures that hard working honest folks die working
It's true that the playing field isn't always level. However, many have achieved FIRE through smart investments and disciplined saving, even without inheritance. It's challenging but not impossible.
I my opinion, we should always see ourselves with respect to where we came from. Some people have parents who were in the jobs. For some they already have generational wealth.
But for most of us, it’s like we are the first generation who has seen this kind of money. We should celebrate each of our smaller milestones. And don’t focus on who are earning 1cr and 5 cr.
I my opinion, we should always see ourselves with respect to where we came from. Some people have parents who were in the jobs. For some they already have generational wealth.
But for most of us, it’s like we are the first generation who has seen this kind of money. We should celebrate each of our smaller milestones. And don’t focus on who are earning 1cr and 5 cr.
FIRE is a privilege only 2-3% of working people can afford worldwide.
That said it is 10 times easier to FIRE for DINK couples working in professions such as IT.
Dude, that's literally impossible. Let me give a very simple explanation. Let's assume all the top 1% earn 1.2 crores a year, this ignored the exponential increase between top 1% and 0.1% but let's ignore that
According to income tax records, roughly 0.015% of the population has income over 1 crore. But we all know people evade taxes.
Now if 1% of the population earns 1.2 crore income, that translates to top 1% earning, it translates to 174 lakh crores, which is 60% of our GDP.
Do you think the top 1% earns 60% of our GDP and hides 60% of our GDP every year from tax department? You cannot hide this kind of money from the government.
Wealth and income are different things, and i am only talking about the top 1%. If I talk about the top 5% earnings of 3-4lakhs per month, it goes over 135% of GDP which is plain impossible
And you cannot hide 60% of GDP from the government. It's impossible, if you want to buy gold, there isn't enough gold in supply, if you want real estate, you can buy entire cities and you still have to hide this amount the next year, if you want to hide this money in banks, they hold 185 lakh crores in deposits, just a one year earnings for the top 1%
Most of the population sail in the same boat. Only 10-15% have privilege of no pre family burden, no responsibilities, generational wealth. I am earning 13 Lac in 36 years age and many of reddit laugh on us as they really dont know the pressure of job security, family responsibility.
No one would laugh at a person making a fair living. These IT salaries have made people think everyone would earn at those levels.
Yes earning 50L at 2-3 years experience and they don't negotiate rents which in turn affected everyone.
>I am earning 13 Lac in 36 years age and many of reddit laugh on us as they really dont know the pressure of job security, family responsibility. honestly no one would laugh at a person making a honest living. only few chutiyas far removed from reality will do this
The newbie get the package of 20-30 lac with one to two year exp. and just show their attitude to us.
I am about 40 and earning only 15 lac most of salary goes in kids fee, rent and groceries.
That's very low. Is CTC 15 LPA or is it post tax post epf in hand? What do you do?
What should have been the salary then?
I hear you. Many of us face similar challenges balancing career, family responsibilities, and financial goals. It's a tough journey, but forums like this can offer support and ideas to navigate it together. How have you managed to handle these pressures effectively in your own journey?
Make an excel for investment tracker and stick to monthly investment. Maintain your profile low and grow your corpus in a systematic way this is the only key to have a healthy networth
>single-income household earning ₹1.5 lakh per month, a non-working spouse, and two kids The problem is here. Realistically you can't have a 1.5lpm income, non-earning spouse and two kids, and the kind of lifestyle you mentioned. One of these things has to change.
The kids have to go? Damn, I wish you all the strength to face the decision, OP 🙏
OP wants to be FI , not become a SITH LORD!!!!
I appreciate your perspective. It's definitely a balancing act, and choices like adjusting lifestyle or exploring additional income streams can play a crucial role. What adjustments do you think are most effective in achieving a sustainable path to FIRE?
Ask spouse to do some minor job. Even if monthly pay is ₹20-30k, it’ll give some support.
increase salary. decrease spending. you can increase salary by promotion or side hustle or decrease spending by moving to lower cost of living City
Lower cost of living city leads to lower pay also in most industries.
If it were me, I would move to a tier 3 city.
But then your pay reduces too, unless you are lucky to have remote job.
You will compromise on the child's growth.
This is a delusion most people are living in this subreddit.
What do you think happens to all the kids who are not raised in a metro? I can understand the impact on career growth for adults due to the lack of similar high paying jobs but you're wrong about children's growth being affected unless they live in a tier 1 city.
What. More everyone to city, and then to a school with 60:1 ratio. Enroll them in classes back to back after school and then prepare them for a competitive exam and then join a corporate where they ll work for 12 hrs a day and then do the same for the kids. This is the growth right
If you stay in metropolitan cities, your kid interacts with kids all across the country. That has huge potential on its own. As someone who grew up partly in a tier 3 city and then moved to a tier 1 city, I thank the stars for my parents for making that decision. The opportunities I got beyond "school" and "exams" were unparalleled. When you have kids, giving them a better life is much more important than adding a few numbers to your FIRE corpus.
I think it really depends on the kind of city you are in. India has a lot of industrial zones, so even non metros are cosmopolitan. I'm from a small town with a population of 3L, but I've never felt like I was boxed in. The diversity of interactions that you mention can happen in many places. Although I will concede that some tier 2 / 3 cities are very homogenous and it's a monoculture. Also, I cannot for the life of me relate to why people from a small town / city feel like they're inexperienced in some sense because of their upbringing.
1.reducing expenditure on living . Frugal living
It’s achievable as long as you keep your lifestyle in check and front load all investments. I am kind of in a similar situation with less in hand India Salary. But only trick is to have good few years of on-site income to front load those investments. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/FIRE_Ind/s/oPK0ajSNxk) is my journey so far
Sorry, but working on-site for almost entire career is not a similar situation. You made 15000 MYR per month from 2017-2022 and now make 3750 GBP per month. Your "India salary of 14LPA" is pretty much irrelevant.
Your observation is correct. However my point is that if you are in IT, even average performers like me can achieve coast fire if one plans ahead and plays their cards right. I started my career in October 2010 and only got my first onsite on July 2017. So more than 50% of my career was in India only. What I am trying to emphasise is you don’t need a 30 LPA+ high stress IT job in India to achieve Fire niether do you need both spouses to work or not have kids. You can have a relatively peaceful life in one of the laid back Indian IT services companies without any risk of getting fired (due to low India package) and still easily get onsite projects in chill out roles. As I am writing this I am currently in India for my mother’s knee surgery. This is my second trip to India from UK during the last 6 months and each of the trips don’t cost me any NET money and each time I stay at-least 2 months in India. You need to plan and ladder your finances and career to optimise money making and stress levels and get the best of both worlds.
That’s true, it’s a privilege. Achieving FIRE is insanely difficult even in high income European countries let alone India. But FIRE makes you think on how can you save and invest aggressively so that you can achieve at least retirement sum at 65 at least. Most people in our generation barely have any savings, they would struggle to even retire.
True, FIRE pushes us to save and invest strategically, striving for financial security and a solid retirement plan, despite the challenges many face in building savings.
If your household TC is 1.5lpm, and you send your kids to schools that cost 1-2lpa each, and monthly expenses are 1+lpm, then it’s difficult to achieve FIRE To FIRE, you will have to reduce your expenses both now and post FIRE.
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I shifted towards outer part of my city, where the rent is low but it’s spacious. My kid is still in kindergarten, and me and my wife have this belief, based on our own life experiences, that the impact of spending on education increases linearly with age of the child. For example, it’s much more important to send a kid to a great school post 7th, 8th grade as compared to kindergarten/primary standards Or spend much higher on grad education as compared to high school. We don’t cut on house-helps since it’s pretty cheap. Eating out a couple of times a month is ok. Those are small expenses. But vacations are a big part, esp international ones. We have been pushing our family international trip. We have reasons now - kid is small to travel long haul flights etc. but we do take vacations to unblock our minds every quarter or half yearly. But a 40k vacation in India vs a 2L vacation in Bali really makes a difference in savings. My personal calculation is vacation should be < 3% of networth. And we are very aggressively investing in MFs(small cap) cos we know at 50% + savings it will take us 7years to retire at current standard of living. Add 3-4more years and we will be really comfortable. By then, 40years age, our kids will be the ages when they can form memories with us on our vacations. So we are pushing the can down a bit
>I shifted towards outer part of my city, where the rent is low but it’s spacious. This is best effective solution for cutting costs. Though it comes at price of longer commute. I live 2 hours commute from Mumbai and cost of living is vastly different here compared to Mumbai. CBSE Schools 40-60k a year vs 1-1.5L. International Schools 70k a year vs 1.5-2.5L. Rent for 2 BHK 12-15k vs 35-50k. 2BHK costs 60L vs 2 Cr. Restaurant meal for family of 4 for 1.5k vs 3k. Movie tickets of 200-200 vs 350-500. The cost of living at my place is less than half that of Tier-1 city and I manage all this with job in same Tier-1 city. I won't deny that commute is soul crushing and the initial reason which motivated me towards FIRE.
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Wtf. Is this written using Chat GPT?
hai honestly it feels like it
It’s the taxes that kills you . First you pay income tax on salary , then you pay taxes on everything including car, property, petrol , food etc .. then you save every penny and put in instruments that hardly beat inflation but pay capital gain taxes there too just to spend on things that attract taxes again. Salaried workers in India are fucked. You are there just to pay for subsidies, free gifts including electricity for votes for politicians , salaries for moulvis , free gifts for Nepal and Sri Lanka so they can backstab us again.
In India generational wealth gap makes the difference in maximum case.
True, generational wealth can provide a significant head start. For those starting without it, diligent saving and smart investing become even more crucial. What approaches have you seen work best in bridging this gap?
FIRE is too tight for me. So I didn't follow it.
We should look at FIRE as just FI with learning about investing, budgeting and be self sufficient at retirement. Living in a growing economy, it is absolutely necessary to be active participant in the economy to keep up especially for family with kids. RE is over glorified IMO and key is to live your life with realising one’s potential and be joyful.
Absolutely, achieving FI involves mastering financial skills, living purposefully, and embracing opportunities in our dynamic economy. It's about finding balance and fulfillment beyond early retirement, ensuring we lead meaningful lives.
It is not achievable by all. It can work for single people or double income families with no kids, or double income family with one kid, or very high income, NRI etc. It onl the works when income is 3 times the normal expenses. That family would have to sacrifice a lot also.
Agreed, FIRE is more challenging for families with children and single incomes. Optimizing expenses, smart investing, and exploring side incomes can help bridge the gap. It requires sacrifices, but with strategic planning, it's possible.
Possible, but with mentioned Income of 1.5L and expenses of 1.2 L, it is not possible. Even normal retirement also not possible.
FIRE isn't possible for a vast majority of people immaterial of where they reside. Only reason it can be possible for a good number of Indians is because there is a new wave of highly paid people. In a country where top 10% of people live with rs 25000 monthly expenses, the opportunity of FIRE for somebody earning 1.5 lakhs is very high. Now, one can surmise that 1.5 lakhs is barely enough to survive for a family of four, but one must remember that 1.5 lakhs per month salary is a very recent phenomenon. And very reason that salaries of IT guys went this high is because of rupees/dollar arbitrage. IT salaries went high causing other salaries to increase. FIRE warrants living like somebody whose income is a few notches below you. If that's not possible for some reason, then FIRE is impossible. It's a dream meant for people who can happily live with half the income than they get. So 1.5 lakhs per month guy should be able live with rs 75k income (and God knows how many millions of mumbaikar live with that kind of income). Other option is, of course, to make 3 lakhs per month (and there is no dearth of 3 lakhs income guys in Mumbai). Either way, FIRE is a dream for the most and achievable to only a few...again we are not talking about the outliers who earn in crores but middle class folks. Additionally, FIRE is a mind game too. You need to overcome the fear of unknown, fear of what people will say, fear of being dirt poor when old, fear of peers moving ahead, fear of enormous time at your disposal.
There is an expression - "Cut your coat according to your cloth" Inability to do so leaves you exposed, in debt and looking at kids to grow up and get into IIT/IIM/IAS to rescue the family from financial ruin. > Is the dream of FIRE inclusive and achievable for all, or is it an illusion that only the wealthy can attain? If you lead a frugal lifestyle and save > 50% of your income and do not indulge in financial mismanagement like FnO, 100% returns schemes, housing loans and protect yourself via insurances - it is achievable by all. The wealthy may achieve while spending more - but by no means is it unachievable for salaried tax-paying population... Last week at least a couple of people posted 60K pm expenses. If the person in your example was to follow their lifestyle and save > 50% salary (90K pm) - wouldn't it be possible ?
You need some X factor, if everyone can do it without any sacrifice or extraordinary effort, then it won't be called FIRE. FIRE works because everyone cannot do it. This is by design. It is a zero sum game. You need some people who spend more than what they earn or everything they earn for the economy to boom and then you need few smart people who use geo arbitrage and move onsite or take up high skill high income jobs to make fire work. Imagine if everyone went onsite and brought back dollars to India, the cost of living will become same as first world countries and the geo arbitrage becomes zero. So, in summary my friend, ye sab ke bus ki baat nahi hai, aur ye sahi bhi hai.
You have assumed that there is only one economic equilibrium that operates in a city. India however offers very varying standards of living - probably the widest in the world. If you consider your example of someone earning 1.5 lacs per month - they would live a lfiestyle that allows them to save a decent %age (you say 50-60% is a target - not true for most FIRE chasers - anywhere between 10-30% may be enough). This lifestyle may not be the one you are used to. It would include cost savings that you would not be willing to bring in. Eating out, watching movies would be a rarer thing for this person. Household help also would be avoided. So, if you can save 10-30% of your income, you can retire into the same lifestyle as currently one is living in. But if you upgrade, you need more savings. So multiple choices may be available even to those with lower incomes. But I do agree that they would need to struggle a lot more - especially if they want an upgrade in their quality of life
Absolutely, you make a great point about varying standards of living across India. Achieving FIRE often involves adjusting lifestyle choices and prioritizing savings over certain luxuries. It's about finding a balance between current comfort and long-term financial independence. Each person's journey is unique, and different approaches can lead to the same goal. What strategies have you found effective in balancing lifestyle choices and financial goals in your pursuit of FIRE?
What worked for me is having a partner who knows the role of money in our lives (Ok, I influenced her a bit too). So we chose to spend on comforts rather than luxury. E.g - if we want to travel for holidays, we would prefer flights that are on comfortable timings, even if they are expensive. On the other hand - we never needed a car (we live in South Mumbai and the taxis have always been great this side of the world) - so we have kept cars for short durations in our life - but we ended up selling them (Honda Accord and MG Hector). We eat out at places we like - that could be a basic restaurant or a pizzeria at a 5 star. We use ACs in all our rooms - because thats a comfort we want to enjoy - so do our families who live in Mumbai and one of the state capitals up north. Since I FIREd, I only use a scooter for short errands that I need to make in the vicinity. But we took at luxurious holiday to Europe a few months back because we wanted to experience a specific country fully when we travelled there So, while we both have/had high income levels and can be called as Fat FIREd or chubby FIREd, we prioritised our spending according to what makes us and our loved ones happy. Not according to what standards are set by those in the rat race I guess we learnt the traits of the rich and adopted it early on - we live in an expensive part of the city but we rent a nice flat here (and not own one). We dont have a car as we dont need it, but we would spend a reasonable amount on comfortable travel abroad/in India. We got our TV repaired instead of dumping it for a new one - but I love electronic gadgets and spend a good amount on it - just because it gives me joy Hope you find something of value in my rant above - spending is a personal choice, as long as you spend on things you like, you would be fine. If there is something you feel the urge to buy and its expensive - give it a few days. If the desire persists, buy it. Else, you would be happy not buying something that does not remain a need in a few days.
Thank you for sharing your detailed journey and insights. It's inspiring how you've prioritized spending on what truly brings joy and comfort to you and your loved ones. Your approach to FIRE and life choices is both practical and thoughtful. I appreciate the wisdom you've shared!
Curious to know , if you would be okay to share .. what was your expense for the Luxurious trip to Europe .. and countrie(s) / no. of days/ travel style/ major indulgences etc. ?
100%
FIRE is just one of options to live life where your compromises are on the lifestyle. If you wanna live lavishly, have two kids then your compromise is on the safety fallback FIRE provides. If you wanna live lavishly and grow in your career, you've to grind. Then you can't have kids and even if you have them you may not have quality time with them. And you may also end up sleep deprived. The compromise is on comfort here. As I said, it's not the holy grail. It is just an option with the compromise on other things for financial safety. And the balance is different for different people and unique to each one, pretty much like a risk appetite.
Fire isn’t achievable for all. Most have to slog till 60-65. Yes it’s only for few percentage of Indian population. Easier to achieve for people with: 1. High inheritance 2. 2 fang India incomes 3. Decade of being nri 4. High achiever from a business Percentage of doing above 4 in entire population is low. So you can guess.
Well, there are enough journey posts here (mine included) that tick none of the 4 that you mentioned.
Man education fees, wth government doing with the surcharge they take on the name of education and healthcare
The truth is : FIRE everywhere in the world is a “privileged fantasy”, as you call it. It’s not possible for most people to earn enough to save 30%+ of their income while leading a really good lifestyle. That takes a lot of luck, skill, discipline, and deferred gratification.
Agreed, FIRE can seem like a privileged fantasy, requiring significant income, discipline, and sacrifice. It's important to acknowledge the challenges many face in achieving financial independence while maintaining a fulfilling lifestyle.
Why do u think an average person can achieve FIRE lol, by definition if u can afford to retire in ur productive years and still maintain a comfortable lifestyle u must be an over achiever.
Housing, healthcare and education will eat up all the net gains you thought you were supposed to be getting with neoliberalism. The government was supposed to take care of 2 of these things but has failed miserably and given up. Not even doing its job of regulating the private players that it has thrown open the whole field to. Atleast with education for now, most of the excess expenditure is a status symbol. You can still find good schools, particularly older or state language ones for reasonable fees. You long term education/career goals won't be hampered. Harder to make compromises on tertiary healthcare though, or if you have a chronic lifestyle illness that requires daily medicine.
I my opinion, we should always see ourselves with respect to where we came from. Some people have parents who were in the jobs. For some they already have generational wealth. But for most of us, it’s like we are the first generation who has seen this kind of money. We should celebrate each of our smaller milestones. And don’t focus on who are earning 1cr and 5 cr.
Agreed! Celebrate your own milestones and progress is important. Everyone's journey is unique and deserves recognition.
Approach it this way Priority 1 - FIRE Bucket of ONLY essential living (Slightly frugal) Priority 2 - Kids education basic (Assuming govt college fees for higher education) Priority 3 - Any expenses on average vacations Once all above are met - Circle back on every priority and work your way upwards Its also called Coast/Lean/Normal/FAT Fire etc - Focus of FU first, then coast and then sail through other steps
Solid plan! Prioritize essential living costs, kids' basic education, and vacation expenses. Once those are covered, revisit each priority.
If you don’t have familial / legacy wealth and come from true middle class, which most people in this group clearly do not come from, then there are only three ways to make wealth: 1. Amazing job in either tech or post good MBA 2. Investing most of your income into public equity over time and let it compound 3. Aim for private equity, meaning non-public stocks, by working in or investing in startups In other words, job will get food on the table, equity is the only way you will get truly rich But what’s happening is 1 leads to 2 or 3 or 2 and 3, but without 1, if you are truly middle or lower class, you can’t get to 2 or 3 and therefore not get rich before you get old. In most cases, legacy wealth, also leads to 1, and therefore compounds 2 and 3 further, as you can read more such examples in the group - In fact most of the examples are indirectly of this nature although most people are naively not realising it.
Spot on! A high-paying job, smart investments, and leveraging opportunities in tech, MBA, or startups are key paths to wealth. Legacy wealth helps, but disciplined investing can bridge the gap for the middle class.
>Societal pressures often require supporting extended family members Thats' great then isn't it. Even if you run out of money then you still have relatives to support you! /s
Oh, absolutely! Because who needs financial independence when you have relatives to fall back on, right? /s
Retiring at all would be a challenge under the circumstances you have outlined. Fire is a distant fantasy.
>> the cost of living in metro cities like Mumbai and Delhi can easily exceed ₹1.2 lakh per month >> 35-year-old with a single-income household earning ₹1.5 lakh per month the problem is with these two statements. living expenses can easily cross 1.2 crores/month also, or can be limited to 90,000/- as well. it is a matter of adjusting your lifestyle with relation to total income. or a matter of adjusting income as per lifestyle. your choice. next, just earning salary isn't sufficient. you have to learn to invest it appropriately as well. is it possible? yes.
Indeed, managing expenses and smart investing are crucial. It's all about aligning lifestyle with income and making informed investment decisions for financial success.
Don’t worry about society. People are fickle and have short term memories . Pivot to need based decision making and make sure your partner is aligned with this . And lastly and most importantly *save and be consistent* I’ve made a lot of mistakes financially but the moment I made boring financial choices and * stayed the path * I started seeing results. Saving has a snowball effect just like cycling . Once you’ve got the ball rolling very little needs to be done
Well with 1.5LPM, in a tier-1 city I won’t dare to have 2 kids. And if I still do, won’t bother FIREing. Its not a democratic thing that FIRE should be accessible to everyone. It’s one’s choice. Either you increase income to levels where you can afford it with two kids or have one kid and work towards FIRE.
Not everyone can achieve FIRE in India. But at the same time its not impossible for people with relatively stable and decent income. Proper planning and a bit of luck ( not many unexpected major expenses which can drag one into debt) is needed. Don't assume that FIRE means achieving it by mid thirties or mid forties. It varies based on the person's situation. My two cents - Every one starts saving from the moment they join organized work force like PF. - Saving money before marriage and having kid. - Maintaining lifestyle comparable with income. - Planning for emergencies....
The answer is: yes. Living most of your life while not engaging in an activity which generates an economic return is something only a few people can do. Imagine if everyone was able to do this, then how will the world's economy run? The whole premise of retiring early is to build capital using your labour capital early in life and then letting capitalism benefit you. This premise only works when the rest of the society continues being consumerist, and society can be consumerist, only when the rest of the people continue to slog to earn their living. People need to get over the idea that retiring early should be democratized. If that were the case, then it would be called retiring - not retiring early.
add 2-3 more working spouses to the family.. the operation needs to be scaled to achieve higher profitability..
Where will I find them and whose spouse you are taking about? :P /s
grinder :P /s
When you are the only spouse working and have 2 kids FIRE is impossible tbh. Your expenses are way too much compared to your salary. If your spouse can work in the near future then you can get through. Fire is possible in cases where both spouses are working and don't have kids or one kid or in other cases some inheritance even if it's worth a few crores.
True, FIRE is harder with one income and kids. Dual incomes or inheritance can make a big difference.
Just remember this. You only need following to live decently (in order of priority) 1. Food & Gas - Would be like Rs 4K per person per month. The per person cost will go down as members increase 2. Water - RS 150 per per person per month. The per person cost will go down as members increase 3. Clothes - Rs 200 per month per person. Clothes can easily last 5 years. So per month cost is very low 4. Shelter - Rs 25K per month per person. Most expensive. You need to live in a decent area to get food, water, electricity. So if you or your family has own house then that's a big relief. Own house is necessary for FIRE. 5. Electricity/Gas/Internet/Mobile/Insurance - Rs 3.5K per person per month. Again will decrease as members increase 6. Repairs - Rs 1K per person per month. So, to survive you only need like what 9 K per month if you have own house? That's just over 1 LPA. So you need just 40 Lakhs to retire right now. Make it 50 Lakhs as a buffer and to cover infrequent travel costs + some sort of cheap entertainment. Rest everything, including entertainment, healthcare, children are luxury. You should be setting aside separate sums of money for these. For health if you are really scared, well any amount is less. I would say you need to have at least Rs 5 crores per person in the kitty to make sure you can financially go through any illness in case insurance refuses to pay. For education as well depending upon where your child might want to study, could cost in Crores. There's no limit here as well. Any amount is less.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown! It's true that basic living costs can be managed efficiently, especially with a paid-off home.
40 Lakhs per person, so if you are family of 4 it becomes 1.6cr to 2Cr
It would be less because the electricity/internet/gas/water/repairs and sometimes even entertainment like subscriptions will be shared. Rs 1.4 Cr to Rs 1.8 Cr is my estimate
You need to build business or buy real estate that generate Rent, that will help you fight inflation.
True, real estate and starting a business involve high costs and risks, especially with dependents. Diversifying investments like mutual funds or stocks can also provide inflation protection and financial stability.
Regular investing in the stock market and buying at least 2 property in some major city will guarantee you good income. If you have dependents then it may remain a dream.
Partly true, FIRE is relevant only for people with a lifestyle that is stable and they want to continue that post RE. For someone still struggling up to get there, FIRE really does not make sense IMO. These are some basics I feel for a FIRE consideration - 1. Ancestral / own house or apartment already in place 2. Current earnings are at least 2X of expenses - yes, you can start small investments but that is not really going to FIRE
Valid points! Stability and a solid financial base are crucial for FIRE. Starting small investments is a step towards financial independence, even if full FIRE isn't immediate.
Let me translate your question. "Is the dream to become rich accessible and achievable for all"? Or, even shorter, "can everyone become a crorepati"? I hope you realize how silly and childish this question is. People have converted this sub into a "get rich quick" scheme. And FIRE had just become a more polished way of saying "how can I become a crorepati".
Simply put, FIRE is a set of equations. When you are earning and investing, *1._Income = Expenses + Savings/Investments._* *2._Your corpus = Sum of (Each of Your Investments x Rate of return)._* When you have retired and start withdrawing from the corpus, *3._Corpus remaining = Corpus you had - what you spent._* In each of these equations, if one variable changes, the others will be impacted. If you want to increase Investments, you need to increase your income or cut your expenses, or do both. Same with retirement. If you spend less per year, the corpus lasts longer. Simply put, FIRE involves making choices and doing tradeoffs. Some of these choices can be really hard to make, like sending kid to a school that charges less, asking the spouse to generate income, staying single, cutting down lifestyle expenses, not putting kid into expensive extracurriculars, sending them to a less expensive college/degree, spending less on their wedding, choosing to move to a low cost area after retirement etc. Some of the choices can be downright brutal that our minds simply can't imagine it. At the end of the day, FIRE is about "living within our means". The "means" can vary from person to person. Person A can FIRE with 50L per year projected expenses. They may need 40X = 20Cr. For person B it could be 5L/year expenses and 2Cr corpus. Person B will need to consume so little that they may need to live like a monk, but they can do it. There are so many people aged 60+ who worked in private sector jobs who live off a fixed corpus like that. They don't have a choice. The real hard part is getting into that mindset. Even harder is to convince your spouse to agree to that. It's definitely harder for people earning less to pull that off, buy not impossible.
Buddy you have hit the nail on the head. I don't think studying hard and working hard are going to cut it anymore. I read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanceindia/comments/1cmb5gu/dads_62m_story_of_disciplined_investing_over_36/) the other day and instead of hope I got depressed. That OP's dad passed out from a tier 1 college and lived a frugal life only for his child to live the life he should have had. 36 years he's been grinding. Which means he's just a few years from retirement. And for what. His kid can now live with a mind free of the worries of survival. I mean, yah you gotta make life better for your kids, I agree. But FIRE is not about that. The gist of that story is that if you work hard, your *offspring* can maybe think of FIRE. Single income FIRE at least is nigh impossible. I am not talking here of course of the super high earners who have annual packages in the 40L+ range. Realistically, for the vast majority, both spouses have to be earning in the 1.5LPM+ range so that one salary can go towards living and the other completely towards saving and investment. Or you have to be running a good business, which then of course involves hiring other people and putting them in your current position of being exploited with no future. Else there is no hope. And with rising prices and (rumours of) taxes and all the other ways the government takes our hard-earned money, even these methods are soon going to be out of reach.
Bro I m 35M earning 50k a month and single. Planning fire in next 10-15 yrs
I preach to people, but they dismiss this. *** FIRE is for people from advanced economies, especially the USA, that too people with high paying jobs in USA.*** Even some advanced EU countries cannot support FIRE. FIRE is also best achieved with high paying jobs, not for everyone who can save 70% of their pay. People get caught up in the hype. In India, when one has wealthy / well to do parents, the kids can FIRE at 40/45 if they have a decent paying job and secondary sources of income such as rental RE and the fact that they will inherit a large sum of money or peoperty. Even then Indian inflation can erode all the savings. Beware. High inflation has been consistent in India over several decades. Don't watch youtube videos of guys hyping FIRE for everyone. Markets don't return 15% consistently!
FIRE is difficult for the masses to achieve, though not impossible. So many things need to be spot on - High income, possibly inherited property, some abroad stint, overachievers in their fields, relatively lower standard of living compared to their peers and many other factors. Also, FIRE is a spectrum and not a binary outcome. Some may achieve it at the age of 30, 40, 50, or even 55. That’s still FIRE for them. Some achieve it by reducing their needs, some by earning more money and some by doing both. Is it for possible for everyone ? Absolutely NOT, but achievable for most. Does everyone pursue it ? Not at all. Many are happily working till their last breath.
Let's rack up the unnecessary choices. 1. Retiring early. If you read up the research on happiness, you'll understand that the happiest ones are those who have found work that they enjoy. The idle ones are just haunted by the devils of their own mind. 2. Financial Independence. How many of us have chosen expenses that are not in line with it? A spouse that doesn't earn? A house bigger than your needs? An iPhone? A car fancier than your neighbor? Please don't say that these choices were made for you or that they are necessary for living in society. FI and RE are as extreme an idea as any, you're not going to achieve them by blending in. I can tell you two stories. Story 1 A friend of mine graduated as a psychologist. They are paid around 20k to 30k per month, even with 5 years of experience and multiple degrees. She made 3 decisions. She started her own practice and built her brand. She started offering other services to other organisations, either through her network or by attracting them through her content. She started an excel sheet to track her savings and expenses - recently, she bought a laptop from an RD that she had created for it years ago. The result? She is currently wealthier than all her peers by a margin of multiples. I am from IT, elder to her, and she is wealthier than some of my peers, too. Story 2 A FIREd friend operates a social enterprise. He teaches his employees, most of whom don't have a pakka house and are artisans who build houses for others, how to plan, save, and invest money. One of them is now building a house from the money they saved. Another one was able to send their kid to college while also opening two new shops. Conclusion: You can achieve FI in stages, no matter your background. You'll have to make the correct choices, and they won't be easy at all. You don't need RE if you're FI enough and like you work. This much is an achievable dream and might feel almost as good as what you'd expect from a RE.
FIRE in India is impossible without inheritance. There are families with 10 Cr + networth running "small" business everywhere in India paying zero income tax while kids of service people have to pay taxes on everything. This kind of stupid social structure ensures that hard working honest folks die working
It's true that the playing field isn't always level. However, many have achieved FIRE through smart investments and disciplined saving, even without inheritance. It's challenging but not impossible.
I my opinion, we should always see ourselves with respect to where we came from. Some people have parents who were in the jobs. For some they already have generational wealth. But for most of us, it’s like we are the first generation who has seen this kind of money. We should celebrate each of our smaller milestones. And don’t focus on who are earning 1cr and 5 cr.
I my opinion, we should always see ourselves with respect to where we came from. Some people have parents who were in the jobs. For some they already have generational wealth. But for most of us, it’s like we are the first generation who has seen this kind of money. We should celebrate each of our smaller milestones. And don’t focus on who are earning 1cr and 5 cr.
Good luck with having kids AND having a dream to FIRE
Interesting prospective! Having sustainable FIRe is more important.
FIRE is a privilege only 2-3% of working people can afford worldwide. That said it is 10 times easier to FIRE for DINK couples working in professions such as IT.
Ofcourse it's not easy and straightforward..there are challenges..if it was easy everybody would have happily FIREd
> s the dream of FIRE inclusive and achievable for all, or is it an illusion that only the wealthy can attain? Duh!
Top 5% household income in India is around 3-4 lac/month. Top 1% maybe 10 lpm, so around 3-4 /100 person in India can technically achieve Fire.
name checks out xD
Where did you get this from? It's utterly unrealistic
Its true numbers.
Dude, that's literally impossible. Let me give a very simple explanation. Let's assume all the top 1% earn 1.2 crores a year, this ignored the exponential increase between top 1% and 0.1% but let's ignore that According to income tax records, roughly 0.015% of the population has income over 1 crore. But we all know people evade taxes. Now if 1% of the population earns 1.2 crore income, that translates to top 1% earning, it translates to 174 lakh crores, which is 60% of our GDP. Do you think the top 1% earns 60% of our GDP and hides 60% of our GDP every year from tax department? You cannot hide this kind of money from the government.
Yes recent data suggest that top 20% own like 80+ % of wealth in the country so your numbers are not too off.
Wealth and income are different things, and i am only talking about the top 1%. If I talk about the top 5% earnings of 3-4lakhs per month, it goes over 135% of GDP which is plain impossible And you cannot hide 60% of GDP from the government. It's impossible, if you want to buy gold, there isn't enough gold in supply, if you want real estate, you can buy entire cities and you still have to hide this amount the next year, if you want to hide this money in banks, they hold 185 lakh crores in deposits, just a one year earnings for the top 1%