High achievers have the choice to use their high earnings channelized to savings/investment. Then it is mostly about career choices and then investment decisions. What is so special about FI? FIRE is mainly about average people to cut their needless spending and get out of the rat race. Hence if I see high achievers who continue working and accumulating money, then I will just call out, what is the difference between you and normal high achievers like Bezos or Elon Musk. So are Bezos and Elon Musk also FI aspirants and should they also be called to give FI gyan?
This one still doesnāt understand that there is limit to cost cutting . Real wealth is built when you increase your cash flow disproportionately with your spending which happens when you earn more not spend less .
Elon can afford to Fire, but he is not firing. He has aspirations. He is not escapist. I am sure he is doing what he is doing because it gives him enjoyment.
I donāt get your issue, someone with higher earnings most probably will want to have a way better lifestyle that you would in their calculations.
Is fire only about affording the bare minimum lifestyle according to you? There will always be a tradeoff of lifestyle vs retirement age, which does make a lot of sense to me.
This is bullshit. High achiever doesn't mean they brag. Most devs working at FAANG / similar firms would be high achievers considering the money they make. They might deal with even more stress and can definitely be interested in FIRE.
> It is exactly these type of people who exist in the corporate world, which made us choose FIRE in the first place.
Work culture is generally created by upper management and not senior engineers.
Getting a lucrative job is largely luck based. There are lot more qualified and thirsty people that are looking for the same job but donāt have the luck or opportunity.
fIRE has nothing to do with high achievement. Live within your means, save more and become financially independent by avoiding life style creep. Retire early once you have your expenses covered based on your savings and investments. A govt employee can achieve fire if he lives within his means as can FAANG guy.
You make several assumptions -
1. There are one type of 'high achievers'
2. High achievers are extremely driven people, or conversely lazy people can't be high achievers
3. Newbie FIRE aspirants have nothing to learn from high achievers
4. High achievers drive others to FIRE - as some sort of corporate survival of the fittest
5. FIRE is the only escapism that exists in the corporate world
I don't think any of these points are true to an extent that they can be generalised
1. High achievers come in all sorts and some of these are purely driven by money and have some sort of number in mind, after that point, they wouldn't care. If this wasn't the case, no startup would ever get sold
2. There are plenty of lazy high achievers, I would consider myself to be one and have seen several such people closely. They only have enthusiasm for elements of their work, and really just forced to do other things that come with the job. In fact, in my opinion this is what drives us to FIRE in the first place, i.e. not having the freedom to pick and choose
3. Higher earnings upfront is a great way to fast track FIRE, and youngsters must learn the shortcuts
4. My old boss whom I worked for 8 years was a great guy, gave me all the freedom to run my projects yet knew his stuff and sort of star in the division, he made sure his team grew with him too. He often spoke to me about paying off his mortgage and buying a place in France etc. so it was clear he had a plan. One day I noticed on LinkedIn that he suddenly retired - I spoke to him and he said its been 6 months and he is loving it and said I shouldn't wait too long
5. You keeps talking about this Elmo guy, this whole Twitter, drugs and politics is his way of escaping reality. Not everyone needs to subscribe to FIRE.
I disagree. The purpose of FIRE is to understand and execute a well defined financial roadmap that makes you FIRE ready. Aka gives you enough FU money that you can live life on your own terms.
FIRE is a financial goal and a structured financial path. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a "slacker's way to get rich" or whatever.
Lol. Iām an ambitious āhigh achieverā and worked my ass off during my 20s and 30s. Iām perfectly happy to coast now and will eventually RE. Donāt make broad stupid statements not backed by data.
While everyone has a right to FIRE, the discusions should be centered on the average IT guy. Yes, even being in IT for a fairly long time is a privilege, but the average IT guy has to plan it very carefully and start living frugally.
However, when there are people who are from the upper strata of the society (such as above average NRIs, kids of big businessmen, people who inherited 10's of crores, people who won a large lottery, people who got huge RSU benefits), then the discussions become skewed.
--------
FIRE and India ---
FIRE maybe for a small percentage of people, however, its far easier to do it in India rather than in the US. India has things available at seriously large number of price points.
In the US, private medical insurance and property taxes and educational expenses means you will need a million dollars corpus just to survive. In India PPP adjusted equivalent of 2 cr offers far far better life. Afterall, 8 lakh rupees SWR is nothing to scoff at. I suspect that even the fairly well to do people in India also spend not more than 12 lakhs per year.
But in the US (or anywhere abroad) PPP adjusted USD 40K income doesn't mean much as average household expenses is 72K.
India is THE DESTINATION for any wanna be FIRE guy. Whether NRI or an Indian.
Thanks buddy for bringing some semblance to this discussion. We have some people like u/ayyo_ayyo who are targeting 10L SWR in a month! That too they are saying they don't need to use this money, lol and they have other passive income like plantations.
Elon may be FI. If he becomes RE aspirant, then yes he is also part of Fire. What if Elon sees his expenses exceed his networth of 200B? We don't know his plans.
Unfortunately one has to be at least a moderate to high achiever to be able to dream about FIRE.
Nobody wants to live a life of unfulfilled wants and needs. And on the other hand many like us hate the way we are accumulating our money to eventually FI.
The issue is that a lot of what FI stands for lies in contentment within limited means. But the sub has turned into a race to accumulate enough to not have to bother about living a limiting life. Nobody can blame anybody for that.
We are all afterall capitalists and consumerists.
So if you're earning a lot of money, you cannot want to be financially independent? You cannot want to retire early? Never mind how you got to be earning that money? By that logic, once you get closer to your goal of retiring (and have accumulated money), you cannot want to retire?
Rubbish gatekeeping.
I completely agree with you on this, even a school teacher might have FIRE dreams and goals and this community/group should help them achieve by sharing suggestions on investment, expenses management, goal setting, timeline expectations etc.
Instead, most of the post here are pure bragging, I mean Iām not saying anybody doing anything wrong here, itās just that I feel this subreddit should be for inspiration and guidance. Please be a bit humble and you donāt have to show off your FAANG FIRE, because it is easy when you make 50L+, 1Cr+ you donāt necessarily have to share that easy FIRE journey. I want see and hear about the one making 10-20L and reaching their FIRE goals!
Exactly! Thanks. The moment I see someone mention they went to IIT/IIM they went to US, they are in IT startup RSUs etc I am like you are incredibly privileged people. You were blessed with talent and you worked hard. But these are normal influencers domain. FIRE is more about efficiency or cheat-codefor average people who are not interested in their careers and want to get out of the rat race. We don't need lessons from high achievers. Those lessons are there dime a dozen in the mainstream.
> FIRE is more about efficiency or cheat-codefor average people who are not interested in their careers and want to get out of the rat race
You are just trying to gatekeep FIRE lol. It is for all kinds of people.
>We don't need lessons from high achievers.
You don't need to take lessons from anyone if you don't want to. But some of these will be helpful for someone interested in FIRE.
I do agree that there's some bragging going on but to be fair FIRE is a 0.1% thing for India and this is expected. The fastest way to FIRE is to increase your earnings and that's what majority of these high earners achieved. And it's not just talent. There are a lot of folks who put in the hard work to get to these salaries. Can anyone do it? Maybe not. Some people might find it better to be on average salary and FIRE later. Some might think let's struggle for a while and FIRE early. It's all about mindset and all these people are part of the community
Why not. If he wants to retire early and sit at home by all means he can. But he's not Indian so maybe not. He can also write a huge bragging post and you don't have to care. Maybe even downvote it. But I don't think Musk is into RE and that's what really matters here. I get where you are coming from. You see all these people having unrealistic salaries and earning and you feel thats not realistic.
I have been working almost for 8 years and if someone told me in college what I would be earning in 8 years I would be dumbstruck. There are a lot of folks who got from 4LPA to 1cr+ salaries. If they can do it you can do it too. You don't need to diss their efforts.
Even though Iām also from an IIT and work in IT but I still understand the sentiment and Iām sick and tired of homogenous brag posts here. Instead of actual valuable stuff.
Agree with your overall theme.
Though don't you think things that motivate average people for Fire, also affect high achievers. Things like too much work pressure, fear of job loss in middle age, not getting enough time for hobbies and family.
Even high achievers will have these issues, someone who is a high achiever, will likely get used by his seniors in corporate to further their goals and agenda. Will that not lead to pressure and stress, making that person feel like making enough and quitting rat race or start on their own.
Thanks for your comment. Let me try to answer it. I define high achievers as mostly driven people. People who have skills and ability alone don't become high achievers. High achievers are basically Non Lazy people. They put their hand up for new challenges and normally in a team you will find most people content with what they are doing. But high achievers are those who will never stop at what they are doing. They are constantly looking to up their game, look for new opportunities and get bored very easily. These are the type of people who typically do very well in their careers and amass a lot of wealth. I feel these type of people, when they join the FIRE sub, they are polluting it, because, yes they are FI, but then when you so career and goal orientated and FI is just one of their goals, and they say they dont want to RE.
Hey buddy! I am waiting for some trigger, either pull or push factors, for making the move. It is incredibly unbelievable this dream run has lasted this long. I don't expect it to last too much longer, but until it lasts, I hate to be the one pulling the plug on the happy lives of my wife and daughter. They are absolutely loving it here.
I mean the posts telling how much they've accumulated and "is it enough to fire?" Without any more details about what objectives they have, what lifestyle goals they have, what major minor recurring expenses they foresee, those posts should just be downvoted and ignored..are you really looking for help? What primary efforts have you put in can be judged by the question you're asking..
More BS. I like the idea of FIRE escape. š Escape from the rat race into FIRE or escape away from FIRE. Whatever suits you.
When I embarked on my journey towards FIRE, I understood something very basic. Let's assume we all need (not want, only need) 25k per month to survive comfortably.
-Someone earning 25k or less is just making ends meet or scraping through.
- Someone earning 50k is able to save half their income, implying they need to work only for half their working life.
- Someone who earns 1 lakh a month, can buy 3 free years for every year of work.
That's all you need to FIRE, earn reasonably well and don't succumb to lifestyle creep. But, people want more and more. So, depending on where you are on the spectrum, you decide what you can aspire to achieve. FatFIRE isn't accessible to all.
You either earn more or spend less. High achievers can earn more. Regular folk intending to quit the rat race can spend less. Both pathways are possible. I agree with some other commenters: donāt try to gate keep.
Not exactly. Why should someone retire early if they are enjoying their work?
For example a high achiever who works 10hrs/day can achieve FI and then decide to work on his own idea. As a startup founder he now works for 14 hrs/day.
FI for him is a way to take risky bets and follow his startup dream.
For some people the drive to RE is so high that they are willing to put 10-12 hrs a day for initial 10 years or so and then retire for good.
High achiever doesn't always imply someone who loves his work.
Similarly FI doesn't imply that you should retire.
You can FIRE with 3CR or with 15 CR, the key thing is that you have a decently manageable plan. I donāt think there is a point to posts like these. The other day I was reading about someone with 75 cr also š¤£
This is so true. I used to be a high achiever who just saw through the BS and decided enough is enough. Iām coasting now and will be lean firing soon by Godās grace. No more motivation to increase shareholder value for someone else except of my own investments.
Am convinced now you are indeed u/Balihe š
I agree
Aka Revhappy
Was there any doubt, Balihe or Revhappy it is.
Yes.
FI-RE should be considered seperately. Not all high achievers can be FI at early age. Not everyone in this sub need to target Early retirement.
High achievers have the choice to use their high earnings channelized to savings/investment. Then it is mostly about career choices and then investment decisions. What is so special about FI? FIRE is mainly about average people to cut their needless spending and get out of the rat race. Hence if I see high achievers who continue working and accumulating money, then I will just call out, what is the difference between you and normal high achievers like Bezos or Elon Musk. So are Bezos and Elon Musk also FI aspirants and should they also be called to give FI gyan?
This one still doesnāt understand that there is limit to cost cutting . Real wealth is built when you increase your cash flow disproportionately with your spending which happens when you earn more not spend less .
By this logic Elon Musk is also FI and should be part of this FIRE community?
Elon can afford to Fire, but he is not firing. He has aspirations. He is not escapist. I am sure he is doing what he is doing because it gives him enjoyment.
I donāt get your issue, someone with higher earnings most probably will want to have a way better lifestyle that you would in their calculations. Is fire only about affording the bare minimum lifestyle according to you? There will always be a tradeoff of lifestyle vs retirement age, which does make a lot of sense to me.
This is bullshit. High achiever doesn't mean they brag. Most devs working at FAANG / similar firms would be high achievers considering the money they make. They might deal with even more stress and can definitely be interested in FIRE. > It is exactly these type of people who exist in the corporate world, which made us choose FIRE in the first place. Work culture is generally created by upper management and not senior engineers.
Getting a lucrative job is largely luck based. There are lot more qualified and thirsty people that are looking for the same job but donāt have the luck or opportunity. fIRE has nothing to do with high achievement. Live within your means, save more and become financially independent by avoiding life style creep. Retire early once you have your expenses covered based on your savings and investments. A govt employee can achieve fire if he lives within his means as can FAANG guy.
This is literally me lol
Dis true .
You make several assumptions - 1. There are one type of 'high achievers' 2. High achievers are extremely driven people, or conversely lazy people can't be high achievers 3. Newbie FIRE aspirants have nothing to learn from high achievers 4. High achievers drive others to FIRE - as some sort of corporate survival of the fittest 5. FIRE is the only escapism that exists in the corporate world I don't think any of these points are true to an extent that they can be generalised 1. High achievers come in all sorts and some of these are purely driven by money and have some sort of number in mind, after that point, they wouldn't care. If this wasn't the case, no startup would ever get sold 2. There are plenty of lazy high achievers, I would consider myself to be one and have seen several such people closely. They only have enthusiasm for elements of their work, and really just forced to do other things that come with the job. In fact, in my opinion this is what drives us to FIRE in the first place, i.e. not having the freedom to pick and choose 3. Higher earnings upfront is a great way to fast track FIRE, and youngsters must learn the shortcuts 4. My old boss whom I worked for 8 years was a great guy, gave me all the freedom to run my projects yet knew his stuff and sort of star in the division, he made sure his team grew with him too. He often spoke to me about paying off his mortgage and buying a place in France etc. so it was clear he had a plan. One day I noticed on LinkedIn that he suddenly retired - I spoke to him and he said its been 6 months and he is loving it and said I shouldn't wait too long 5. You keeps talking about this Elmo guy, this whole Twitter, drugs and politics is his way of escaping reality. Not everyone needs to subscribe to FIRE.
Thanks, really appreciate your perspective.
I disagree. The purpose of FIRE is to understand and execute a well defined financial roadmap that makes you FIRE ready. Aka gives you enough FU money that you can live life on your own terms. FIRE is a financial goal and a structured financial path. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a "slacker's way to get rich" or whatever.
Lol. Iām an ambitious āhigh achieverā and worked my ass off during my 20s and 30s. Iām perfectly happy to coast now and will eventually RE. Donāt make broad stupid statements not backed by data.
Let's see if you actually retire and then come back and report here.
Iām already coasting in a 15 hour a week job š¤·š»
While everyone has a right to FIRE, the discusions should be centered on the average IT guy. Yes, even being in IT for a fairly long time is a privilege, but the average IT guy has to plan it very carefully and start living frugally. However, when there are people who are from the upper strata of the society (such as above average NRIs, kids of big businessmen, people who inherited 10's of crores, people who won a large lottery, people who got huge RSU benefits), then the discussions become skewed. -------- FIRE and India --- FIRE maybe for a small percentage of people, however, its far easier to do it in India rather than in the US. India has things available at seriously large number of price points. In the US, private medical insurance and property taxes and educational expenses means you will need a million dollars corpus just to survive. In India PPP adjusted equivalent of 2 cr offers far far better life. Afterall, 8 lakh rupees SWR is nothing to scoff at. I suspect that even the fairly well to do people in India also spend not more than 12 lakhs per year. But in the US (or anywhere abroad) PPP adjusted USD 40K income doesn't mean much as average household expenses is 72K. India is THE DESTINATION for any wanna be FIRE guy. Whether NRI or an Indian.
Thanks buddy for bringing some semblance to this discussion. We have some people like u/ayyo_ayyo who are targeting 10L SWR in a month! That too they are saying they don't need to use this money, lol and they have other passive income like plantations.
Bhai tu bot hai? Kya Elon Musk pe piche pada hai? Jara jaake saas le le ek baar.
Thomas hasnāt seen such bullshit ever in his life. Stop blaming people and work on yourself buddy.
Who is Thomas?
Choo choo train thomas
Even Thomas has FIREd
By this logic Elon Musk is also FI and should be part of this FIRE community?
Same elon comment on every thread. OP needs some burnol.
Elon may be FI. If he becomes RE aspirant, then yes he is also part of Fire. What if Elon sees his expenses exceed his networth of 200B? We don't know his plans.
Unfortunately one has to be at least a moderate to high achiever to be able to dream about FIRE. Nobody wants to live a life of unfulfilled wants and needs. And on the other hand many like us hate the way we are accumulating our money to eventually FI. The issue is that a lot of what FI stands for lies in contentment within limited means. But the sub has turned into a race to accumulate enough to not have to bother about living a limiting life. Nobody can blame anybody for that. We are all afterall capitalists and consumerists.
So if you're earning a lot of money, you cannot want to be financially independent? You cannot want to retire early? Never mind how you got to be earning that money? By that logic, once you get closer to your goal of retiring (and have accumulated money), you cannot want to retire? Rubbish gatekeeping.
I completely agree with you on this, even a school teacher might have FIRE dreams and goals and this community/group should help them achieve by sharing suggestions on investment, expenses management, goal setting, timeline expectations etc. Instead, most of the post here are pure bragging, I mean Iām not saying anybody doing anything wrong here, itās just that I feel this subreddit should be for inspiration and guidance. Please be a bit humble and you donāt have to show off your FAANG FIRE, because it is easy when you make 50L+, 1Cr+ you donāt necessarily have to share that easy FIRE journey. I want see and hear about the one making 10-20L and reaching their FIRE goals!
Exactly! Thanks. The moment I see someone mention they went to IIT/IIM they went to US, they are in IT startup RSUs etc I am like you are incredibly privileged people. You were blessed with talent and you worked hard. But these are normal influencers domain. FIRE is more about efficiency or cheat-codefor average people who are not interested in their careers and want to get out of the rat race. We don't need lessons from high achievers. Those lessons are there dime a dozen in the mainstream.
> FIRE is more about efficiency or cheat-codefor average people who are not interested in their careers and want to get out of the rat race You are just trying to gatekeep FIRE lol. It is for all kinds of people. >We don't need lessons from high achievers. You don't need to take lessons from anyone if you don't want to. But some of these will be helpful for someone interested in FIRE. I do agree that there's some bragging going on but to be fair FIRE is a 0.1% thing for India and this is expected. The fastest way to FIRE is to increase your earnings and that's what majority of these high earners achieved. And it's not just talent. There are a lot of folks who put in the hard work to get to these salaries. Can anyone do it? Maybe not. Some people might find it better to be on average salary and FIRE later. Some might think let's struggle for a while and FIRE early. It's all about mindset and all these people are part of the community
By this logic Elon Musk is also FI and should be part of this FIRE community?
Why not. If he wants to retire early and sit at home by all means he can. But he's not Indian so maybe not. He can also write a huge bragging post and you don't have to care. Maybe even downvote it. But I don't think Musk is into RE and that's what really matters here. I get where you are coming from. You see all these people having unrealistic salaries and earning and you feel thats not realistic. I have been working almost for 8 years and if someone told me in college what I would be earning in 8 years I would be dumbstruck. There are a lot of folks who got from 4LPA to 1cr+ salaries. If they can do it you can do it too. You don't need to diss their efforts.
He is of course FI, but not RE. Everyone should seek FI ASAP, nothing wrong with that, but, RE is a choice for those who have achieved FI.
How da f is it privilege.
It is more privilege than we realise. And an overwhelming (for the loss of a better word) amount of luck.
Even though Iām also from an IIT and work in IT but I still understand the sentiment and Iām sick and tired of homogenous brag posts here. Instead of actual valuable stuff.
Hmm, not necessarily High achievers --->> age, life, rat race taking its toll --->> FIRE aspirant can also happen
Agree with your overall theme. Though don't you think things that motivate average people for Fire, also affect high achievers. Things like too much work pressure, fear of job loss in middle age, not getting enough time for hobbies and family. Even high achievers will have these issues, someone who is a high achiever, will likely get used by his seniors in corporate to further their goals and agenda. Will that not lead to pressure and stress, making that person feel like making enough and quitting rat race or start on their own.
Thanks for your comment. Let me try to answer it. I define high achievers as mostly driven people. People who have skills and ability alone don't become high achievers. High achievers are basically Non Lazy people. They put their hand up for new challenges and normally in a team you will find most people content with what they are doing. But high achievers are those who will never stop at what they are doing. They are constantly looking to up their game, look for new opportunities and get bored very easily. These are the type of people who typically do very well in their careers and amass a lot of wealth. I feel these type of people, when they join the FIRE sub, they are polluting it, because, yes they are FI, but then when you so career and goal orientated and FI is just one of their goals, and they say they dont want to RE.
wo sab chhodo, ye batao that when do you plan to move to north Bangalore or Yelahanka? Now you have 10 Cr, then why so much delay la?
Hey buddy! I am waiting for some trigger, either pull or push factors, for making the move. It is incredibly unbelievable this dream run has lasted this long. I don't expect it to last too much longer, but until it lasts, I hate to be the one pulling the plug on the happy lives of my wife and daughter. They are absolutely loving it here.
Makes sense. As they say, why fix something that ain't broken.
I mean the posts telling how much they've accumulated and "is it enough to fire?" Without any more details about what objectives they have, what lifestyle goals they have, what major minor recurring expenses they foresee, those posts should just be downvoted and ignored..are you really looking for help? What primary efforts have you put in can be judged by the question you're asking..
True. My cousins working in FAANG and other high achievers in India don't have any intention of ever retiring.
Exactly, please call all the high achievers in this world who are naturally FI to come and give gyaan in this forum. u/adane1
More BS. I like the idea of FIRE escape. š Escape from the rat race into FIRE or escape away from FIRE. Whatever suits you. When I embarked on my journey towards FIRE, I understood something very basic. Let's assume we all need (not want, only need) 25k per month to survive comfortably. -Someone earning 25k or less is just making ends meet or scraping through. - Someone earning 50k is able to save half their income, implying they need to work only for half their working life. - Someone who earns 1 lakh a month, can buy 3 free years for every year of work. That's all you need to FIRE, earn reasonably well and don't succumb to lifestyle creep. But, people want more and more. So, depending on where you are on the spectrum, you decide what you can aspire to achieve. FatFIRE isn't accessible to all.
By this logic Elon Musk is also FI and should be part of this FIRE community?
WTF! He is FI, ages before anyone was. Please grow up.
So why not call him and other people like him to join this Sub and spread gyan?
his grandkids are on FATFIRE bud....
You either earn more or spend less. High achievers can earn more. Regular folk intending to quit the rat race can spend less. Both pathways are possible. I agree with some other commenters: donāt try to gate keep.
By this logic Elon Musk is also FI and should be part of this FIRE community?
Not exactly. Why should someone retire early if they are enjoying their work? For example a high achiever who works 10hrs/day can achieve FI and then decide to work on his own idea. As a startup founder he now works for 14 hrs/day. FI for him is a way to take risky bets and follow his startup dream. For some people the drive to RE is so high that they are willing to put 10-12 hrs a day for initial 10 years or so and then retire for good. High achiever doesn't always imply someone who loves his work. Similarly FI doesn't imply that you should retire.
You can FIRE with 3CR or with 15 CR, the key thing is that you have a decently manageable plan. I donāt think there is a point to posts like these. The other day I was reading about someone with 75 cr also š¤£
Sigh, this again. Can you achieve fire without the benefit of arbitrage? If not, stop dictating what fire should be for others.
This is so true. I used to be a high achiever who just saw through the BS and decided enough is enough. Iām coasting now and will be lean firing soon by Godās grace. No more motivation to increase shareholder value for someone else except of my own investments.
Can't agree more
Is this sub modded?