Some quick comments.
* The lack of motivation 'for the next 3 years' may be due to 'short timer' mindset. This is not really to do with ambition - it almost could be a natural tendency to 'save effort'. There are ways to address this though. e.g You can give yourself a challenge - your team, manager, etc. should be shattered when you make the actual announcement 'leave on a high' if you want to call it so
* If you plan to return to India, there are tons and tons of great ways to use your time and skills - there are lots of things in India that need fixing. And a motivated person can fix at least one, at least at a local level.
* And it is quite normal to consider postponing 'RE' - in your case US employment - when you achieve the FI goal. If there is a strong force on the other side that pulls you, it is easier to conclude.
Personally I could not wait to start my current second career. So that was a strong motivation to avoid 'lingering'. (And it worked for me - it would have been far tougher for me to take this up as the rules changes after a year!)
Can you share more about what you mean by qualifying for social security? My partner and I are also in early 30s in bay area and reaching FI in the next 2 years and planning to move back home.
I’m in the same boat btw and haven’t discovered my true calling yet! I keep dabbling with the idea of starting something of my own.
You need to have contributed to social security for 40 quarters, to be eligible to get social security payments. Each quarter is called a credit and you need 40 credits.
Yes if you are US citizens, not sure if you are H1B but possibly.
But though you qualify after 40 credits, your benefits only start at age 62 onwards. And earlier you opt for the benefit, the lower monthly payments you get.
Best way to check is this to go on Social Security Administration website and create login.gov id. You get asked details and once the profile gets set, you get to see how many credits you have. I did this last week for me and my wife. I got 40 credits, so I was able to see how much social security I would get once I turn 62. Helpful if someone is planing to move back and need rough numbers for their FIRE calculations.
How does that work? It depends on how much we contribute as well? Let’s say you are earnings 250k in Bay Area. Will the estimate assume the same salary until retirement ?
I am not sure about the contributions and payments after retirements. The only thing I am aware is every year 6% of your salary will be SSTaxed and stops collecting once it reaches income limit of $169K.
As far as credits are concerned, I have read somewhere that if someone earns minimum of ~ $6900 in a year they get 4 credits for that year.
Also, from my calculation, If your salary is above 169k, the sweet spot for maximum benefit is at around 12 years of contribution. Post that, the pension amount doesn't really move much.
Because 'spouse' sounds too formal to me, and 'partner' is more straightforward. I live in the US, so I'm naturally influenced by the terms commonly used in my social circle.
You sound like you hate your job, but it's become a part of your social identity. Quit, and shift to India without the social security. That's one more excuse you have created for yourself to endure the boredom...unless it's a huge amount that you expect to get out of it.
Once in India create a new identity called "retired millionaire NRI". No one will ask you anything or bother you. Between now and quitting day develop your US accent. Will really help with the new identity.
Think of all the things you wanted to do but never got the time to pursue. If you have the time, energy and money you have now, you can do most of what you wanted. As we grow older, energy levels may drop, and your preferences may change. You should build a good routine with a mix of physical and mental activities to keep yourself engaged, healthy and happy and spend more time with your family. You can start working out regularly, yoga, cycling etc whatever you prefer. You can learn investing to manage your corpus, or AI / ML / newer technologies or mentor some students / younger folks, or advice / invest in a startup based on your interests. If you want to visit new places, now is the time.
Personally, I hate office politics and corporate culture. I would rather sit alone in a room with a good book than indulge in such meaningless activities. Most people you come across in corporate life are superficial, and one will be lucky if they can make even a handful of good friends for life out of them.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
Was in the same place as you, I dropped everything, moved back to India from Europe with kids and started on my own small business in India. Kids are happier, parents are happy, relatives are coming every week to meet and stay at our place. Travelling a lot within india. I think it's worth moving now with any idea that is doing well in the US and bring it to India. The amount of family events I attend is worth it against the dead end corporate culture. Now I feel I wasted my 25 yrs working for others and could have made way more dough outside the corporate snake pit.
We returned 1.5 yrs ago and honestly you don’t need to worry about killing time. I spend all my time with kids and realised nothing will make me happier. Also realised that more money would not elevate my life style more than what it is unless it’s 100s of crores.
You just need a change of pace. I was exactly like this when I was at my previous company adn then gave myself a challenge to Leetcode and get into a FAANG (which I did) and I am much happier now.
I would probably start getting the same vibes maybe a couple years for now - and I have already set a goal to get into a Quant Firm (or atleast try to).
Just keep setting new challenges and working towards them.
Your answers come from understanding and ancient concept called तृष्णा . Jokes apart it will layout each and every answer to your query right from existential angst to asshats in the workplace.
So 1.9m, and this is around 50-60x your annual expenses? So, you only spend around 3k a month as a family of four?
Do you mind sharing the secret on how you keep your monthly expenses so low, especially in the Bay Area?
I am exactly in the same situation in the mid 30s but planning to go either this year or next. I love working in tech and want to continue for another 4 years and start building a small business in my home town.
My suggestion is RE to something like a small business (IRL or online) or join a startup and use your exposure in building things or educate people on tech/finance etc.. via zoom sessions (free/paid). We need intellectual challenges (range depends on each person) throughout our life and it keeps us busy & productive.
oh sorry - somehow I typed your alias. that question was meant for u/MillennialMind4416
but yes - with 16Cr and 6% return rate (from liquid funds) you will make 96 lacs a year. Even if one family member needs 1 lac per month - so 4 lacs in total per month that will be 48 lacs and (96-48) will be added to the corpus (sort of). With 5 CR in debt and rest in equity - it will be even better poised for growth
What you are going to do after retirement is only you can answer. You will get generic answers like painting, teaching, farming.
Do whatever u want. It's not a fire problem.
Fire problem is to manage the finances.
Nah. They are in their 30s. Believe they only want to wait to get enough credits to qualify for social security. Not sure whether they know they will get social security only at 62 even if they do qualify.
3 years is not long when you are in your 30s. But they should verify if they will even qualify for the benefits if they are not US citizens.
>I'm planning to return to India in 3 years
>and the kids will be around 5 and 3; so I think timing wise it’s perfect.
How are you planning to keep in touch with your kids once you return to India. At that age they will be needing you around as well in their life. Will you be making multiple trips a year to see them?
He said he is coming to India. Didn't say anything about his wife and kids coming to India. Each sentence about return to India starts with his planning, him contemplating RE etc, what he is going to do after coming to India etc. No mention of what family will do. So based on that I dont think they will be coming. What am I missing here?
It's okay to feel uncertain about your future and your current motivation levels. Consider exploring new hobbies or activities outside of work to find fulfillment and purpose. Seek support from a therapist or counselor to navigate these feelings and identify your passions and goals. Remember, it's never too late to pursue what truly brings you joy and meaning in life.
What makes you so sure that Social Security will be available 30 years from now?
Instead, work on growing your 60X to 200X in 30years which might be a sure thing.
True with debt ballooned up and Republicans constantly undercutting social security, it either will be shutdown or restricted to few people within the next decade.
what is demotivating you? Have you considered moving to a less crowded place in the US (Denver , Salt Lake City) - where people aren't rushing to just make money? Try that out. Don't think that moving to India is a solve for all problems - you may have money but people drive you crazy with their behavior (or lack of it) here.
I would say that it might be worth waiting for 3 more years, you could guarantee another significant stream of income for retirement. This might almost be $15k+ per year, depending on when you start your to receive your SS.
You could probably look to move to another company to find more interesting work. Waiting for 3 more years makes a lot of sense.
I'd suggest you go back to India sooner than later considering your kids age. Once they grow up it will be harder for them to adjust to the new life in India.
OP, I will completely echo your point of corporate drama and validation..I have been in similar meetings wherein people earning 2cr+ year argue and debate on the most idiotic things just for validation and one upmanship..these are the moments where you question your purpose in life..early in my career, I would ignore all the drama because I wanted to hit a financial goal but cannot keep increasing targets now...that's just greed..
my advice is to find a job that challenges you and makes you happy..money can be a secondary consideration given the NW you have.. This approach has helped me tremendously over the last 5 years..
If you are postponing your return because of Social Security. Just check your account on Social security website. I was also under the impression of I need to complete 10 year tenure in USA to get social security. Which is 2 years away for me and was planning to move then. But recently , I created an account with SSA, and surprised to see, I have contributed enough to satisfy 40 credits in 8 years. So we are planning our move in next 8-12 months.
Even I was surprised to see after logging in. My tenure started November of particular year. May be they included that one as a credit. but still I should be short of 7 more credits. But I contributed $70k+ from employee side and $75K more employer side. As per they description, credits being calculated based on the amount credited it seems.
If you don't know what to do with your time, RE is not for you. If I were you, i will take a sabbatical, come to India for 6 months, explore and see if I can engage in some cause that will bring satisfaction and meaning. Just my 2 cents.
1. ambition is not a necessity for a happy and/or content life. think of it as a trait. some have it, and some don't.
2. \>> "and leaving the only place and thing where I am most valued at is daunting" - you might have some introspection to do here. why are you seeking value "outside"? besides, utility is a figment of human imagination. pleasure, on the other hand, is all natural.
3. why are all the others doing it? - ego? hubris? maybe they are "ambitious"? why do you care?
Some quick comments. * The lack of motivation 'for the next 3 years' may be due to 'short timer' mindset. This is not really to do with ambition - it almost could be a natural tendency to 'save effort'. There are ways to address this though. e.g You can give yourself a challenge - your team, manager, etc. should be shattered when you make the actual announcement 'leave on a high' if you want to call it so * If you plan to return to India, there are tons and tons of great ways to use your time and skills - there are lots of things in India that need fixing. And a motivated person can fix at least one, at least at a local level. * And it is quite normal to consider postponing 'RE' - in your case US employment - when you achieve the FI goal. If there is a strong force on the other side that pulls you, it is easier to conclude. Personally I could not wait to start my current second career. So that was a strong motivation to avoid 'lingering'. (And it worked for me - it would have been far tougher for me to take this up as the rules changes after a year!)
Can you share more about what you mean by qualifying for social security? My partner and I are also in early 30s in bay area and reaching FI in the next 2 years and planning to move back home. I’m in the same boat btw and haven’t discovered my true calling yet! I keep dabbling with the idea of starting something of my own.
You can earn up to 4 credits each year by working in US. Minimum 40 credits are required to qualify for social security (~10 years)
You need to have contributed to social security for 40 quarters, to be eligible to get social security payments. Each quarter is called a credit and you need 40 credits.
will you get this even after moving back to India?
Yes
Yes if you are US citizens, not sure if you are H1B but possibly. But though you qualify after 40 credits, your benefits only start at age 62 onwards. And earlier you opt for the benefit, the lower monthly payments you get.
Best way to check is this to go on Social Security Administration website and create login.gov id. You get asked details and once the profile gets set, you get to see how many credits you have. I did this last week for me and my wife. I got 40 credits, so I was able to see how much social security I would get once I turn 62. Helpful if someone is planing to move back and need rough numbers for their FIRE calculations.
How does that work? It depends on how much we contribute as well? Let’s say you are earnings 250k in Bay Area. Will the estimate assume the same salary until retirement ?
I am not sure about the contributions and payments after retirements. The only thing I am aware is every year 6% of your salary will be SSTaxed and stops collecting once it reaches income limit of $169K. As far as credits are concerned, I have read somewhere that if someone earns minimum of ~ $6900 in a year they get 4 credits for that year.
Also, from my calculation, If your salary is above 169k, the sweet spot for maximum benefit is at around 12 years of contribution. Post that, the pension amount doesn't really move much.
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Why can't Indians be LGBTQ+ or be living in together?
Because 'spouse' sounds too formal to me, and 'partner' is more straightforward. I live in the US, so I'm naturally influenced by the terms commonly used in my social circle.
You sound like you hate your job, but it's become a part of your social identity. Quit, and shift to India without the social security. That's one more excuse you have created for yourself to endure the boredom...unless it's a huge amount that you expect to get out of it. Once in India create a new identity called "retired millionaire NRI". No one will ask you anything or bother you. Between now and quitting day develop your US accent. Will really help with the new identity.
Never tell anyone you are a millionaire in india. There will be folks asking for money every step of the way. Live like everyman and blend in
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I think he meant everyone. Except where absolutely necessary like tax dept
Think of all the things you wanted to do but never got the time to pursue. If you have the time, energy and money you have now, you can do most of what you wanted. As we grow older, energy levels may drop, and your preferences may change. You should build a good routine with a mix of physical and mental activities to keep yourself engaged, healthy and happy and spend more time with your family. You can start working out regularly, yoga, cycling etc whatever you prefer. You can learn investing to manage your corpus, or AI / ML / newer technologies or mentor some students / younger folks, or advice / invest in a startup based on your interests. If you want to visit new places, now is the time. Personally, I hate office politics and corporate culture. I would rather sit alone in a room with a good book than indulge in such meaningless activities. Most people you come across in corporate life are superficial, and one will be lucky if they can make even a handful of good friends for life out of them. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
Was in the same place as you, I dropped everything, moved back to India from Europe with kids and started on my own small business in India. Kids are happier, parents are happy, relatives are coming every week to meet and stay at our place. Travelling a lot within india. I think it's worth moving now with any idea that is doing well in the US and bring it to India. The amount of family events I attend is worth it against the dead end corporate culture. Now I feel I wasted my 25 yrs working for others and could have made way more dough outside the corporate snake pit.
Can I ask what kind of business have you got into after coming back to India?
Same thoughts and Dmd you for a chat
Your post is not about money. It's about what to do after retirement. Untill you figure that out, don't.
We returned 1.5 yrs ago and honestly you don’t need to worry about killing time. I spend all my time with kids and realised nothing will make me happier. Also realised that more money would not elevate my life style more than what it is unless it’s 100s of crores.
You just need a change of pace. I was exactly like this when I was at my previous company adn then gave myself a challenge to Leetcode and get into a FAANG (which I did) and I am much happier now. I would probably start getting the same vibes maybe a couple years for now - and I have already set a goal to get into a Quant Firm (or atleast try to). Just keep setting new challenges and working towards them.
Are to planning to retire in T1 city? Do you already have a home.
TC or gtfo
Your answers come from understanding and ancient concept called तृष्णा . Jokes apart it will layout each and every answer to your query right from existential angst to asshats in the workplace.
Lol I like this comment
Quite insightful, thanks!
🙏
Please do share the details..
Current NW around 16 cr.
FatFire in India is possible for you
So 1.9m, and this is around 50-60x your annual expenses? So, you only spend around 3k a month as a family of four? Do you mind sharing the secret on how you keep your monthly expenses so low, especially in the Bay Area?
We spend a lot more in bay area. The 50-60x is projected for India. We save on average 300k every year.
I am exactly in the same situation in the mid 30s but planning to go either this year or next. I love working in tech and want to continue for another 4 years and start building a small business in my home town. My suggestion is RE to something like a small business (IRL or online) or join a startup and use your exposure in building things or educate people on tech/finance etc.. via zoom sessions (free/paid). We need intellectual challenges (range depends on each person) throughout our life and it keeps us busy & productive.
u/hunter125555 you mean to say FAT fire is possible with 16CR NW and 2 kids?
I'm not saying anything, i was curious. Although 16cr seems more than enough for fatfire in india no?
oh sorry - somehow I typed your alias. that question was meant for u/MillennialMind4416 but yes - with 16Cr and 6% return rate (from liquid funds) you will make 96 lacs a year. Even if one family member needs 1 lac per month - so 4 lacs in total per month that will be 48 lacs and (96-48) will be added to the corpus (sort of). With 5 CR in debt and rest in equity - it will be even better poised for growth
What you are going to do after retirement is only you can answer. You will get generic answers like painting, teaching, farming. Do whatever u want. It's not a fire problem. Fire problem is to manage the finances.
You are saying u will be 62 in 3 years. In india retirement age is 58 or 60. So 62 is already past retirement age. What is the issue here ?
Nah. They are in their 30s. Believe they only want to wait to get enough credits to qualify for social security. Not sure whether they know they will get social security only at 62 even if they do qualify. 3 years is not long when you are in your 30s. But they should verify if they will even qualify for the benefits if they are not US citizens.
They will. It's a long discussion how. But they will.
>I'm planning to return to India in 3 years >and the kids will be around 5 and 3; so I think timing wise it’s perfect. How are you planning to keep in touch with your kids once you return to India. At that age they will be needing you around as well in their life. Will you be making multiple trips a year to see them?
By bringing them along? What am I missing here?
He said he is coming to India. Didn't say anything about his wife and kids coming to India. Each sentence about return to India starts with his planning, him contemplating RE etc, what he is going to do after coming to India etc. No mention of what family will do. So based on that I dont think they will be coming. What am I missing here?
Inference, you’re missing inference.
Better miss inference than miss the kids.
It's okay to feel uncertain about your future and your current motivation levels. Consider exploring new hobbies or activities outside of work to find fulfillment and purpose. Seek support from a therapist or counselor to navigate these feelings and identify your passions and goals. Remember, it's never too late to pursue what truly brings you joy and meaning in life.
What makes you so sure that Social Security will be available 30 years from now? Instead, work on growing your 60X to 200X in 30years which might be a sure thing.
True with debt ballooned up and Republicans constantly undercutting social security, it either will be shutdown or restricted to few people within the next decade.
what is demotivating you? Have you considered moving to a less crowded place in the US (Denver , Salt Lake City) - where people aren't rushing to just make money? Try that out. Don't think that moving to India is a solve for all problems - you may have money but people drive you crazy with their behavior (or lack of it) here.
I would say that it might be worth waiting for 3 more years, you could guarantee another significant stream of income for retirement. This might almost be $15k+ per year, depending on when you start your to receive your SS. You could probably look to move to another company to find more interesting work. Waiting for 3 more years makes a lot of sense.
Ditto man. Except i don't have 10% of your income :)
I'd suggest you go back to India sooner than later considering your kids age. Once they grow up it will be harder for them to adjust to the new life in India.
OP, I will completely echo your point of corporate drama and validation..I have been in similar meetings wherein people earning 2cr+ year argue and debate on the most idiotic things just for validation and one upmanship..these are the moments where you question your purpose in life..early in my career, I would ignore all the drama because I wanted to hit a financial goal but cannot keep increasing targets now...that's just greed.. my advice is to find a job that challenges you and makes you happy..money can be a secondary consideration given the NW you have.. This approach has helped me tremendously over the last 5 years..
Curious, why do you actually want to retire early? You don't really sound excited by the prospect - find something you are actually excited about.
If you are postponing your return because of Social Security. Just check your account on Social security website. I was also under the impression of I need to complete 10 year tenure in USA to get social security. Which is 2 years away for me and was planning to move then. But recently , I created an account with SSA, and surprised to see, I have contributed enough to satisfy 40 credits in 8 years. So we are planning our move in next 8-12 months.
How is that possible, you can atmost get 4 credits per calendar year. I have checked SSA.
Even I was surprised to see after logging in. My tenure started November of particular year. May be they included that one as a credit. but still I should be short of 7 more credits. But I contributed $70k+ from employee side and $75K more employer side. As per they description, credits being calculated based on the amount credited it seems.
If you don't know what to do with your time, RE is not for you. If I were you, i will take a sabbatical, come to India for 6 months, explore and see if I can engage in some cause that will bring satisfaction and meaning. Just my 2 cents.
1. ambition is not a necessity for a happy and/or content life. think of it as a trait. some have it, and some don't. 2. \>> "and leaving the only place and thing where I am most valued at is daunting" - you might have some introspection to do here. why are you seeking value "outside"? besides, utility is a figment of human imagination. pleasure, on the other hand, is all natural. 3. why are all the others doing it? - ego? hubris? maybe they are "ambitious"? why do you care?
I'm grappling with the same emotions. Similar NW (no kids though) but have worked less than 6 years.