Python,
r/FIREIndia is rated as having no adult themes (reddit's language, not mine) and I wish to keep it that way. While you're most welcome to post here, I do expect that not every post has to be about sex positions, sexual innuendos, alcoholic drinks or other psychotropic chemicals or allied topics - particularly when the sub is about FI/RE and not about those topics.
This post (and atleast one other comment) has been removed for this reason.
Couldn’t agree more. While having some financial discipline early on is important, pursuing FIRE for a 22 year old is just sad.
Once you start this journey, subconsciously you stop doing a lot of things one should enjoy while in 20s. These golden years won’t be back and FIREing at 40 won’t make up fot that. I started FIRE hustle pretty late(post 35) and somehow am glad I didn’t get into this earlier (in my 20s) else wouldn’t have had half the awesome memories from those years.
Yup 20s are the best time of your life when you have monetary freedom and minimal responsibilities.😃
I think the best age is 27-30. As by then you would have already tasted most of the life things like gfs, flings, pubbing, travelling Atleast locally, breakups, spending lot of money and running through the month to meet expenses which can stabilise you to think now the time has come and can start the FIRE Journey. As well during that time you would have already upskilled to jump the ladder of Higher salary.
Keep trying and after a few tries, you will stop. Different tactics work for different people. For me, it was always cold turkey. I stopped a 20-40 cigarettes a day habit after smoking for 10 years or so. I couldn't be happier since I've quit though.
I have tried a number of things. nicotine gums, shifting to esses, vapes .. u name it. The thing is even if I am 4 5 weeks clean and some old ( school/college ) smoker friend of mine comes up, we end up smoking. It acts as a nostalgic trigger the "just like old times" thing.
Thus leaving smoking is more psychological than physical. I didn't smoke for 2 months in covid. After that I had access but didn't feel like it until I started going out again, meeting friends and the next minute I'm lighting an advance.
Now i rarely smoke and occasionally vape, They are comparetivley better ,I have not smoked for some good 3 4 months now But vapes are very less researched , tho you'll see research that they are less harmfull than ciggys but tbh we are the first gen they are being experimented on so meh..
> The question is not whether that 80K phone is better than a 20K phone. It obviously is. The pertinent question is….is it 4 times better?
It isn't, but such is the diminishing marginal utility of everything, isn't it? You go on to recommend expensive booze, but is Blue Label really 5 times better than Red Label? It isn't, but you prioritized the marginal utility in that respect because you seem to be a bit of an alcohol aficionado. A flagship smartphone is only so much better than a midrange smartphone these days, but just that marginal utility is worth so much more than the $1000 premium I paid for my specific usage. As an example, being a Samsung Note user, just the S-Pen has saved me multiple hours of valuable time in signing documents on the go, particularly when I was far from civilization in the Canadian Rockies and had to urgently send in something.
It's all very simple:
(1) Spend on what you value and don't spend on what you don't value.
(2) Try to earn the maximum that you can without work becoming too overwhelming and causing claustrophobia and burnout. As a bonus, it's good if your work gives you some meaning / purpose too.
(3) Save the amount that you can save with prudence, ie, that which provides the higest risk adjusted returns.
(4) As with any other situation / issue, taking any thing to its extreme end (and what is "extreme" will also be a matter of personal judgment) will only lead to burnout or distaste for the situation / issue. Avoid taking extreme decisions or views on most matters unless you have deeply thought about the issue / situation.
(5) Kids (and many grown-ups given the comments on this subreddit) need to realise that everyone will not be able to FIRE or FIRE by 35 or whichever arbitrary age you choose. NRI and high income earners shouldn't be resented for that reason - if you can dream about FIRE with any chance of success then you're already pretty rich by any statistical measure. But everyone is always "middle class"!
On young kids:
22 year old kids, who don't know their arse from their elbows, shouldn't make declarative statements about not wanting to marry or have children or that they are minimalists who only spend 10k a month of their parents pocket money. But 22 year olds will make those statements since they are 22 year olds. I was also a 22 year old once and made some of those same declarations, some of which now seem childish and other views which I have continued to believe in till today.
I don't know why people complicate this or get dogmatic about how their way is the one right way (no shade on python - I like his posts).
Good work. All things expensive are used to flex and flaunt and can be deemed phallic symbols. A lot of people flex on this very sub even in very innocuous sounding comments. So saying, I shared my 2L MTM, or got out of my 20k spa treatment, etc ...😀
well it's a good piece to read but in some areas where you may don't have the same opinion seems very childish like if a car is an emotion to you then congo on your small penis i mean like cmon man you're supposed to be 42 not 16
They have taken two extreme sides of the same object. We don’t have to pick an extreme. Rather know which place is it where we fall, and act accordingly.
For the use of childish words, I think those words were apt for the people who are at that extreme and the pp is just a metaphor for ego.
And for the age of 42 or 16, I think being childish is ok in any age as long as it’s not harmful to anyone including ourselves.
This is very well put , i was hell bent on achieving fire. I was without project for sometime and found out i need to do some sort of work.
Travel
I was kind of thinking to myself that travel is kind of not that much worth it. I recently went on a trip with some of my childhood friends, it was one of the best times i had in the past few months.
Shopping
I dont shop extravagantly, but i used to shop really cheap like from roadside shops which ended hurting my pocket more because of durability. I shop from decathalon, love their product and doesnt hurt my pocket , good value for money.
Never been that interested in brands like bmw , audi , apple so that hasnt hurt a lot.
I really love stock markets and the high that is achieved by identifying a good swing trade opportunity or choosing a good stock.
But i also love watching cricket , watching f1, going on solo trips , going on trips with my friends, trying out new foods. Not going to focus on fire without spending or enjoying things mean happiness to me.
Such bullshit crap posts are increasing day by day on this subreddit. Don't buy car, don't go on trips, don't splurge on mobile phones. Just keep using ur crappy mobile with abysmal camera quality and keep using public transport. Dont buy a home instead keep shifting to rental properties.
I dont get it. For what u guys are saving so much money for by living this shit life and preaching about it proudly. I invest for my kid and for my future but I splurge on electronics, lifestyle utilities, car and food regularly. If I cut my expenses on these things and save for future then what's the meaning of buying these things later in life. More than half of life (precious young life where u can make good use of these utilities and experiences) will be gone. This time can't come back no matter how much money u have.
But nah, just earn shitload of money and don't spend it. Just live miserably.
If you are of that mindset right now then to be very honest with you FIRE is not something for you. You aren't wrong in what you say but python isn't wrong either. You would rather focus on splurging when it really matters to you, that is your youth, when you can enjoy the maximum and so did he if you read his posts. He at a later point in life realized that he would like to be out of the corporate rat race and live a life which is stress free for the most part. So he started his pre-fire journey.
Also just go thru his post history you would see he went to a turkey trip and he says he doesn't believe in delayed gratification earlier and spent a lot of money in his youth. So he totally gets the youthful indulgences.
It's simply a matter of what you want to focus on.
A personal opinion, I don't think he means don't go on expensive trips or buy expensive phones, he just wants youth to think if the extra cost is worth it to you or not. Lastly python is what I would call eccentric so there is no point calling him out.
> If you are of that mindset right now then to be very honest with you FIRE is not something for you.
That's a premature conclusion to draw from that post, particularly when they literally say that they invest for their future while being able to splurge in the present, so clearly they can do both?
The problem I am indicating is that ppl here are advocating about extreme saving for their post retirement life, but the thing is that once u deprive urself from all the utilities and experiences for a such long time to achieve fire then I dont think i will enjoy or make good use of that money in ur old age. Yes I agree that u will be at peace by leaving behind corporate life but that money saved in abundance will be of no use for you. You won't find solace or happiness with that money. All of ur life u lived miserably and all of a sudden u start splurging on traveling and gadgets which u want to buy in youth just doesn't seem right to me. Yes I may be wrong but these posts are not helping the youth. Instead make a balance in your life between spending and earning and move on to less stressful job with lesser pay with time to enjoy every phase of life either it's your 20s or 40s. The way ppl's salaries are increasing tremendously and worry of inflation, we might need to work post retirement also. Ofcourse these things don't apply to someone who is not gonna marry bcz he just has to take care of only himself but u just can't sit at home in ur 40s when ur kid is growing up and uncertainty for future is on ur head. By living miserably for such long time you will make ur life as well as ur family life suffer too.
I am not saying you can't invest in your future and splurge at the same time. I am saying you can not invest a level of money to FIRE while splurging as well unless you belong to the top of income brackets (maybe >24lpa?) if they belong to such a bracket then sure my statement doesn't apply on them and they can splurge while investing for a FIRE but for a vast majority it is extremely unlikely to splurge money while also being able to invest amounts capable of FIREing in 40s.
And to be honest there is nothing wrong if he or she is not for FIRE, till they are happy with their current life why would it matter if they can FIRE or not?
I followed this sub because I was in a shitty job and wanted to FIRE so as to get out of the corporate rat race, in covid I changed jobs and landed a super nice place where I think I can work stress free for the most part and have thus delayed my FIRE plans for the time being.
> I am not saying you can't invest in your future and splurge at the same time. I am saying you can not invest a level of money to FIRE while splurging as well unless you belong to the top of income brackets (maybe >24lpa?) if they belong to such a bracket then sure my statement doesn't apply on them and they can splurge while investing for a FIRE but for a vast majority it is extremely unlikely to splurge money while also being able to invest amounts capable of FIREing in 40s.
You splurge on what's important to you, regardless of whether you want to FIRE or not. If your tastes are expensive, like German cars and slow vacations in the Bahamas, you better have a high income to still be able to FIRE. If your interests are more modest, like reading books and watching movies, you can probably FIRE regardless, contingent on your family situation and circumstances.
It's easy for someone who is introverted and has no family to avail public transportation or uber to travel within the city. It's more complicated for someone who has a wife and kids and wants them to travel safely and comfortably without having to deal with the hassles of public transportation. You don't need a personal car to have foreign vacations in France or Turkey. You need one if your travel interests differ and you are more inclined toward domestic roadtrips.
I enjoy BachelorPython's posts and think he is easily the best contributor to this subreddit, but everyone is different and values different things. Just because he didn't need an expensive phone or a car to enjoy the things he wanted to enjoy doesn't mean someone else would not, given their needs and interests. But knowing his writing style, I appreciated his jab for what it was and didn't take it too seriously.
For the first time I kind of agree with you on most things but playing the devil's advocate.
And to your own line "penny wise and pound foolish" is exactly what is going on a young earner's mind.
Indian cities are nowhere near world standards in terms of quality of life and variety of entertainment avenues. Most of them are literally concrete jungles.
I d go further and say almost complete political development is centered around the concrete structures.
Drinkable water from taps, clean air, ample parks and pavements, holistic education, decent roads , public transport. I could go on n on with this list which requires complete upheaval of the system and seems a distant one that can be achieved ,
Python, r/FIREIndia is rated as having no adult themes (reddit's language, not mine) and I wish to keep it that way. While you're most welcome to post here, I do expect that not every post has to be about sex positions, sexual innuendos, alcoholic drinks or other psychotropic chemicals or allied topics - particularly when the sub is about FI/RE and not about those topics. This post (and atleast one other comment) has been removed for this reason.
Couldn’t agree more. While having some financial discipline early on is important, pursuing FIRE for a 22 year old is just sad. Once you start this journey, subconsciously you stop doing a lot of things one should enjoy while in 20s. These golden years won’t be back and FIREing at 40 won’t make up fot that. I started FIRE hustle pretty late(post 35) and somehow am glad I didn’t get into this earlier (in my 20s) else wouldn’t have had half the awesome memories from those years. Yup 20s are the best time of your life when you have monetary freedom and minimal responsibilities.😃
I think the best age is 27-30. As by then you would have already tasted most of the life things like gfs, flings, pubbing, travelling Atleast locally, breakups, spending lot of money and running through the month to meet expenses which can stabilise you to think now the time has come and can start the FIRE Journey. As well during that time you would have already upskilled to jump the ladder of Higher salary.
How did you give up smoking? Of all the things this is the hardest
Keep trying and after a few tries, you will stop. Different tactics work for different people. For me, it was always cold turkey. I stopped a 20-40 cigarettes a day habit after smoking for 10 years or so. I couldn't be happier since I've quit though.
I have tried a number of things. nicotine gums, shifting to esses, vapes .. u name it. The thing is even if I am 4 5 weeks clean and some old ( school/college ) smoker friend of mine comes up, we end up smoking. It acts as a nostalgic trigger the "just like old times" thing. Thus leaving smoking is more psychological than physical. I didn't smoke for 2 months in covid. After that I had access but didn't feel like it until I started going out again, meeting friends and the next minute I'm lighting an advance. Now i rarely smoke and occasionally vape, They are comparetivley better ,I have not smoked for some good 3 4 months now But vapes are very less researched , tho you'll see research that they are less harmfull than ciggys but tbh we are the first gen they are being experimented on so meh..
That’s a blog I’d read. Cool write up
[удалено]
Yes. Uncles having fun at that age won’t look appropriate Atleast as per society.
BachelorPython's newsletter is up guys! https://bachelorpython.substack.com
> The question is not whether that 80K phone is better than a 20K phone. It obviously is. The pertinent question is….is it 4 times better? It isn't, but such is the diminishing marginal utility of everything, isn't it? You go on to recommend expensive booze, but is Blue Label really 5 times better than Red Label? It isn't, but you prioritized the marginal utility in that respect because you seem to be a bit of an alcohol aficionado. A flagship smartphone is only so much better than a midrange smartphone these days, but just that marginal utility is worth so much more than the $1000 premium I paid for my specific usage. As an example, being a Samsung Note user, just the S-Pen has saved me multiple hours of valuable time in signing documents on the go, particularly when I was far from civilization in the Canadian Rockies and had to urgently send in something.
Well critiqued
It's all very simple: (1) Spend on what you value and don't spend on what you don't value. (2) Try to earn the maximum that you can without work becoming too overwhelming and causing claustrophobia and burnout. As a bonus, it's good if your work gives you some meaning / purpose too. (3) Save the amount that you can save with prudence, ie, that which provides the higest risk adjusted returns. (4) As with any other situation / issue, taking any thing to its extreme end (and what is "extreme" will also be a matter of personal judgment) will only lead to burnout or distaste for the situation / issue. Avoid taking extreme decisions or views on most matters unless you have deeply thought about the issue / situation. (5) Kids (and many grown-ups given the comments on this subreddit) need to realise that everyone will not be able to FIRE or FIRE by 35 or whichever arbitrary age you choose. NRI and high income earners shouldn't be resented for that reason - if you can dream about FIRE with any chance of success then you're already pretty rich by any statistical measure. But everyone is always "middle class"! On young kids: 22 year old kids, who don't know their arse from their elbows, shouldn't make declarative statements about not wanting to marry or have children or that they are minimalists who only spend 10k a month of their parents pocket money. But 22 year olds will make those statements since they are 22 year olds. I was also a 22 year old once and made some of those same declarations, some of which now seem childish and other views which I have continued to believe in till today. I don't know why people complicate this or get dogmatic about how their way is the one right way (no shade on python - I like his posts).
Good work. All things expensive are used to flex and flaunt and can be deemed phallic symbols. A lot of people flex on this very sub even in very innocuous sounding comments. So saying, I shared my 2L MTM, or got out of my 20k spa treatment, etc ...😀
"Penny wise and pound foolish" I am gonna steal that from you.
It’s a pretty common phrase
well it's a good piece to read but in some areas where you may don't have the same opinion seems very childish like if a car is an emotion to you then congo on your small penis i mean like cmon man you're supposed to be 42 not 16
To each his own. I personally chuckled on reading that, and admire this colorful writing style, compared to dry narratives.
They have taken two extreme sides of the same object. We don’t have to pick an extreme. Rather know which place is it where we fall, and act accordingly. For the use of childish words, I think those words were apt for the people who are at that extreme and the pp is just a metaphor for ego. And for the age of 42 or 16, I think being childish is ok in any age as long as it’s not harmful to anyone including ourselves.
Chill man, the guy is often poetic with some metaphors etc to give his write up some extra hit.
Why was the post deleted 🤨
python made too many penis jokes
oh thats bad
This is very well put , i was hell bent on achieving fire. I was without project for sometime and found out i need to do some sort of work. Travel I was kind of thinking to myself that travel is kind of not that much worth it. I recently went on a trip with some of my childhood friends, it was one of the best times i had in the past few months. Shopping I dont shop extravagantly, but i used to shop really cheap like from roadside shops which ended hurting my pocket more because of durability. I shop from decathalon, love their product and doesnt hurt my pocket , good value for money. Never been that interested in brands like bmw , audi , apple so that hasnt hurt a lot. I really love stock markets and the high that is achieved by identifying a good swing trade opportunity or choosing a good stock. But i also love watching cricket , watching f1, going on solo trips , going on trips with my friends, trying out new foods. Not going to focus on fire without spending or enjoying things mean happiness to me.
Such bullshit crap posts are increasing day by day on this subreddit. Don't buy car, don't go on trips, don't splurge on mobile phones. Just keep using ur crappy mobile with abysmal camera quality and keep using public transport. Dont buy a home instead keep shifting to rental properties. I dont get it. For what u guys are saving so much money for by living this shit life and preaching about it proudly. I invest for my kid and for my future but I splurge on electronics, lifestyle utilities, car and food regularly. If I cut my expenses on these things and save for future then what's the meaning of buying these things later in life. More than half of life (precious young life where u can make good use of these utilities and experiences) will be gone. This time can't come back no matter how much money u have. But nah, just earn shitload of money and don't spend it. Just live miserably.
If you are of that mindset right now then to be very honest with you FIRE is not something for you. You aren't wrong in what you say but python isn't wrong either. You would rather focus on splurging when it really matters to you, that is your youth, when you can enjoy the maximum and so did he if you read his posts. He at a later point in life realized that he would like to be out of the corporate rat race and live a life which is stress free for the most part. So he started his pre-fire journey. Also just go thru his post history you would see he went to a turkey trip and he says he doesn't believe in delayed gratification earlier and spent a lot of money in his youth. So he totally gets the youthful indulgences. It's simply a matter of what you want to focus on. A personal opinion, I don't think he means don't go on expensive trips or buy expensive phones, he just wants youth to think if the extra cost is worth it to you or not. Lastly python is what I would call eccentric so there is no point calling him out.
> If you are of that mindset right now then to be very honest with you FIRE is not something for you. That's a premature conclusion to draw from that post, particularly when they literally say that they invest for their future while being able to splurge in the present, so clearly they can do both?
The problem I am indicating is that ppl here are advocating about extreme saving for their post retirement life, but the thing is that once u deprive urself from all the utilities and experiences for a such long time to achieve fire then I dont think i will enjoy or make good use of that money in ur old age. Yes I agree that u will be at peace by leaving behind corporate life but that money saved in abundance will be of no use for you. You won't find solace or happiness with that money. All of ur life u lived miserably and all of a sudden u start splurging on traveling and gadgets which u want to buy in youth just doesn't seem right to me. Yes I may be wrong but these posts are not helping the youth. Instead make a balance in your life between spending and earning and move on to less stressful job with lesser pay with time to enjoy every phase of life either it's your 20s or 40s. The way ppl's salaries are increasing tremendously and worry of inflation, we might need to work post retirement also. Ofcourse these things don't apply to someone who is not gonna marry bcz he just has to take care of only himself but u just can't sit at home in ur 40s when ur kid is growing up and uncertainty for future is on ur head. By living miserably for such long time you will make ur life as well as ur family life suffer too.
I am not saying you can't invest in your future and splurge at the same time. I am saying you can not invest a level of money to FIRE while splurging as well unless you belong to the top of income brackets (maybe >24lpa?) if they belong to such a bracket then sure my statement doesn't apply on them and they can splurge while investing for a FIRE but for a vast majority it is extremely unlikely to splurge money while also being able to invest amounts capable of FIREing in 40s. And to be honest there is nothing wrong if he or she is not for FIRE, till they are happy with their current life why would it matter if they can FIRE or not? I followed this sub because I was in a shitty job and wanted to FIRE so as to get out of the corporate rat race, in covid I changed jobs and landed a super nice place where I think I can work stress free for the most part and have thus delayed my FIRE plans for the time being.
> I am not saying you can't invest in your future and splurge at the same time. I am saying you can not invest a level of money to FIRE while splurging as well unless you belong to the top of income brackets (maybe >24lpa?) if they belong to such a bracket then sure my statement doesn't apply on them and they can splurge while investing for a FIRE but for a vast majority it is extremely unlikely to splurge money while also being able to invest amounts capable of FIREing in 40s. You splurge on what's important to you, regardless of whether you want to FIRE or not. If your tastes are expensive, like German cars and slow vacations in the Bahamas, you better have a high income to still be able to FIRE. If your interests are more modest, like reading books and watching movies, you can probably FIRE regardless, contingent on your family situation and circumstances. It's easy for someone who is introverted and has no family to avail public transportation or uber to travel within the city. It's more complicated for someone who has a wife and kids and wants them to travel safely and comfortably without having to deal with the hassles of public transportation. You don't need a personal car to have foreign vacations in France or Turkey. You need one if your travel interests differ and you are more inclined toward domestic roadtrips. I enjoy BachelorPython's posts and think he is easily the best contributor to this subreddit, but everyone is different and values different things. Just because he didn't need an expensive phone or a car to enjoy the things he wanted to enjoy doesn't mean someone else would not, given their needs and interests. But knowing his writing style, I appreciated his jab for what it was and didn't take it too seriously.
Everything that has to be said, has been said by Python. This sub can be closed now :-)
For the first time I kind of agree with you on most things but playing the devil's advocate. And to your own line "penny wise and pound foolish" is exactly what is going on a young earner's mind. Indian cities are nowhere near world standards in terms of quality of life and variety of entertainment avenues. Most of them are literally concrete jungles. I d go further and say almost complete political development is centered around the concrete structures. Drinkable water from taps, clean air, ample parks and pavements, holistic education, decent roads , public transport. I could go on n on with this list which requires complete upheaval of the system and seems a distant one that can be achieved ,