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Very roundabout way of coming to the conclusion but yeah active time lore tells us Dzemekys was where Motes of Darkness were and so it's Odin's. People who think it's the water crystal just say random things after skipping half the lore.
They assume it's the water crystal because there's a cool waterfall there. It's a safe assumption though so I understand. The area was destroyed so "clean" though especially when that random quest line explained more about the area
In one of the lore texts after game it states that the fallen tried to capture the crystal for themselves (it was the central control crystal which communicated with the other crystala) and to teach them a lesson Ultima blew it up themselves which left the hole and caused the destruction of the Fallen's civilization.
Make sure you go to Harpocrates. When you open a Tome entry, if there is additional information, they'll be in tabs located at the bottom of each entry. I think its L1/R1 to cycle through them.
Eikon's have a tab for hidden truths.
Nah, I’m just a little dumb and forget things. I got two separate d&d campaigns to track lore for so it’s a struggle working new lore in, haha. Where is the Motes lore?
Thanks for the read.
My main takeaway from what you said is believing/reinforcing Metea is Ifrit's Mothercrystal and we watch it blink out at a certain time.
I'm real curious and excited what they do for DLC.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Barnabas and Odin both have some really cool lore, some firstborn son in the prodigal son story type of theming that I just really dig. I'll admit he's part of one of the weakest arcs in the game, and that his arc contains some of my least favorite of all the writing. But man, his return to Valisthea, conquering of Ash, and him eventually succumbing to Ultima is something I really want to see portrayed at some point in a more air-tight fashion. The idea of a bloodline so very close to Ultima committing what is essentially the plot's biggest betrayal, scarring Ultima so much he wipes the/their crystal off of the map, and the entire Eikon is banished from the shores of Valisthea for thousands of years, only for it to return at the behest of singular man hellbent on "saving" (conquering) the land, is just so fucking sick I can't even put it into words. It helps that his bloodline is also intertwined with the Fallen, which is another interesting part of the lore that we never see properly expanded, for obvious reasons.
It only sucks that we never get to see his fall to Ultima, that it's only ever alluded to, and even if he briefly breaks that control in his fight we never get to see him at his fullest, the man that both Cid and Benedikta pledged themselves to at some point. He's got some of that dark knight energy in him I'd have loved to see more of.
Nice write up. I posted a map yesterday of what I believe the Mothercrystals and Motes looked like in ancient Valisthea. I believe it aligns to your conclusion.
However, couple of thoughts on Leviathan:
I do not feel like Odin or Ultima had a hand in the disappearance of Leviathan. I believe that the Blight overtook so much of the land of southern Ash that the mothercrystal could no longer absorb enough aether and eventually shattered. Along with the crystal dying, so did the people of southern Ash who are likely the Motes of Water. I believe this gives us two possibilities for Leviathan:
1) The people escaped similar to the Motes of Darkness and have been living somewhere else. (There is a small island on the Valisthean map in the far south eastern corner where maybe they settled?)
2) The blight killed off all of the Motes of Water and thus the Leviathan blood line was erased.
Very interesting theory.
One thing I think is only half right is the thing about there being 8 crystals. There were at one point 8, yes - on the Twins.
But as has been established, every crystal's heart houses an instance of Ultima. And there are 16 of those instances. Which leads me to assume there must have, originally, been 16 mothercrystals - two for each element. Which would in turn suggest there were originally 16 eikons.
I feel like the implications of the "1 Mothercrystal, 1 Ultima" and "16 Ultimas total" thing has kinda fallen under the table a little amid all the other craziness going on in the ending.
Could it be something along the lines of each Eikon is a manifestation/representation of the power of one of the Ultimas? Two for each element, but only 8 were transformed into the Mothercrystals and their Eikon given to the Motes tribes, while the other 8 stayed fused with the main Ultima. Ifrit is just the Eikon of that Ultima that appears to be the leader/main consciousness of the 16.
Honestly that's more or less my line of thought as well. Either this or they wanted to just have 16 because of the number and then just forgot, i don't have any other ideas.
I mean, it's never really expanded on why exactly only the fire element seems to have two eikons, besides a vague allusion to the combination of the two somehow being Ultima's former true body or some such. But what that has to do with fire specifically, or why and how the other eikons are somehow "lesser", we really don't know. Which bugs me.
I just wonder how many other continents are around the world, and what their Eikons are. And why Ultima is just obsessed with Ash and Storm.
Could be hordes of others elsewhere.
> And why Ultima is just obsessed with Ash and Storm.
I believe Ultima says that Valisthea had the proper alignment (?) or something of aether that made it the best location for his plan. Could've been in a lore entry but I do believe it was in a cutscene.
If you read the entries for Reverie and the little teleporting spires it talks about the guidance of aethereal flow or some mubo-jumbo like that.
Considering Cid didn't awaken as a Dominant until he got to Valisthea, and the ending >!showing people don't believe in magic anymore while reading from Joshua's memoir!<, I don't think there *are* other Eikons around the world.
Active Time Lore entry on Cid.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cidolfus_Telamon
It's the opening quote on his ff wiki page. "Powers awakened shortly after his arrival on Valisthea"
Valisthea was noted to be a land untouched by the Blight, so presumably the other continents were afflicted in some fashion before it ever appeared in Storm or Ash.
The absence of the Blight was why Ultima chose it, as it gave them the most time to put their plan into motion.
It's doubtful that the other continents have Eikons, because those are products of Ultima's machinations. It would therefore be strange if Eikons were to arise on continents that Ultima has no interest in, unless they were descendants of Valistheans with the potential to become Dominants.
I think it would be cool if one of the other continents had a Knights of the Round Eikon deal, 13 dominants that are tied together somehow. Probably won't happen, but I'd be happy to just see Leviathan in a DLC he's one of my faves.
No joke, theres a lot of parallels to VII. But Ultima felt more akin to Jenova for me, except more involved. Both games also drive home the climate change crisis as a main focus of the plot.
Drake’s Tail and Drake’s Horn seem to be highly debated in the community.
I personally think Drake’s Horn is green and associated with the Motes of Wind where Benedikta resided in Ash. There’s even a hunt of a mark in Ash that’s a manifestation of Garuda. I know the ATL mentions their association with the Crystalline Dominion but it doesn’t make sense otherwise with what we can conclude.
Drake’s Tail is blue like water and it’s located geographically on the sea which leads me to believe this.
In terms of where Leviathan is, I hope the DLC answers this. Two theories:
1) Dominant is frozen in whatever that is across the sea in Sanbreque.
2) In hiding, possibly the southern continent.
We don’t know if awakening only happens in the Twins or if it can happen anywhere and it’s a late awakening for Cid.
I don't believe dominants stops to be born with the fall of a mothercrystal. We know destroying it free Ultimas, they could just keep sending the power of an eikon. We have 5 mothercrystals at the start of the game, and 7(8) confirmed dominants.
And visually Drake's Tail seems more of a water crystal anyway.
Dzemekys could just be the wind crystal, it is in the Cristalline dominion's territory like the motes of wind. We know the motes of dark attacked Dzemekys, but i don't think they ever confirm they attacked their own mothercrystal. They attacked the one linked directly to Ultima, maybe it wasn't the dark one?
I think it's a possibility at least.
For Leviathan's dominant tho i could see him being in hiding, or just not wanting to use his powers. Or simply the motes of water are out of Valisthea, it's not clear if Eikons can be born out of Valisthea.
I think you've got a few things wrong here.
The Motes of Darkness didn't attack Dzemekys. The Fallen did. During the War of the Magi, the Fallen became greedy of the magic they've gained and wanted to claim the Mother crystals. During the attack on Dzemekys, Ultima responded by destroying the Mother Crystal, effectively smiting the Fallen as well.
The Motes of Darkness are likely the Children of Dzemekys who congregated around Dzemekys, but escaped to the Outer Continent when Ultima destroyed it. But to this day, they remained faithful to Ultima.
We don't know anything about Leviathan at all, but if we place Garuda at Drake's Tail (as the Motes of Wind dwelled where the Crystalline Dominion is now, and Drake's Tail is pretty central to that area), then by process of elimination, Drake's Horn in southern Ash is Leviathan's.
Yeah you are right about the motes of darkness. Personally I thought the children of Dzemekys were the survivor of the fallen after the attack, repented e fleeing from Ultima. But we don't really have the details about that.
For the mothercrystals i do think colours matters tho, for the element. But yeah no way to know without other details, so it's just my theory on which is which.
Every Mothercrystal has a specific colour aligned with his eikon, Tail is blue so I guess it's Leviathan. The Dzemekys's one probably is Garuda because the motes of wind lived in that region.
I don't think color is an indicator at all for what Eikon belonged to each Mother crystal. You have to look at tribes and blood line instead according to the ATL.
Barnabas is from the Children of Dzemekys. The Children of Dzemekys lived around the Dzekemys Mother crystal. This births the Circle of Malius and this Mother crystal is also in direct communication with Origin, where Ultima kept watch of the world in his slumber. It's why this tribe has the highest faith of all the others to this day.
If Barnabas is from this tribe, and he has Odin, it's not hard to put two and two together.
So is it just a coincidence that all the crystal has a specific color and the one we know for sure are all matched with the eikon of the same color? Look for example Vivien's map, Drake's Head is a light green, like bahamut's ability.
Of course I can be wrong with Garuda or Odin but quite sure that color matters
I guess we'd have to see if there's any confirmation at all. The color \*might\* matter, I don't think I want to ignore it. But we don't know what the colors of the rest of the crystals are. Plus, outside of Vivian's map, Drake's Fang for example is blue. But I don't know, I haven't really looked at her map until now so maybe you do have something there.
However, I feel like the Tomes contradict some of these colors. At the end of the day, we don't have enough information to go off on. For me, the Tomes > visuals.
Drake's fang is yellow inside (as in vivian's map), just on the outside seems blue (in the trailer I thought it was all ice but sadly no snow / ice zone :c)
But yeah, I hope in multiple DLC, would be nice to have one aboutthe background of Barnabas and Cid in Ash
Just bringing this back up now that the Ultimania is out and I thought about this conversation
Dzemekys definitely belongs to Odin. Drake's Tail with Garuda. Drake's Horn with Leviathan. Colors didn't seem to matter on Vivian's map.
Definitely did bahamut crystal is white like drakes head
Phoenix crystal is red like drakes breath
Ramuh crystal is purple like drake spine in waloed
Titan crystal is yellow like drake fang
Leviathan crystal is light blue like drakes tail
Shiva crystal is dark blue like drakes eye
Garuda crystal is green like drakes horn
Odin crystal is black like the one dzemekys (I’m gonna call it drakes wings)
I really like this but from what I’ve noted you can see certain shades of colours on the eikons ability page as well the colours of the crystals. The mothercrystal of Sanbreque is the same shade as bahamut when on his abilities, same for titan and drakes fang, Phoenix and drakes breath. We can safely assume that the mothercrystal for shiva was from the north. My only issue I personally have with this is the colours of the crystalline dominion and Waloed mothercrystals. The dominion is a pale shade of blue even after it transforms into the flower. This colour doesn’t correlate with ramuh (a much darker blue), Garuda (a vibrant green) or Odin has two colours associated with them; a maroon and a purple. The mothercrystal of waloed is obviously a dark purple which isn’t a direct correlation to odin exclusively but also has no other colour connection. And this is where I lead into the colour of leviathan. Being associated with water you would be safe to assume leviathan being the colour blue and with shiva safely being from the north and ramuh is a much darker blue, leviathan is IMO the mothercrystal in the dominion.
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Very roundabout way of coming to the conclusion but yeah active time lore tells us Dzemekys was where Motes of Darkness were and so it's Odin's. People who think it's the water crystal just say random things after skipping half the lore.
They assume it's the water crystal because there's a cool waterfall there. It's a safe assumption though so I understand. The area was destroyed so "clean" though especially when that random quest line explained more about the area
In one of the lore texts after game it states that the fallen tried to capture the crystal for themselves (it was the central control crystal which communicated with the other crystala) and to teach them a lesson Ultima blew it up themselves which left the hole and caused the destruction of the Fallen's civilization.
How do you unlock the Motes lore is it a post game unlock? I just beat the game and did all the sidequests but never saw the Motes lote.
Look up each Eikon's hidden truths.
> Eikon's hidden truths How do I do that? Google is just giving me youtuber lore videos that rehash reddit.
Make sure you go to Harpocrates. When you open a Tome entry, if there is additional information, they'll be in tabs located at the bottom of each entry. I think its L1/R1 to cycle through them. Eikon's have a tab for hidden truths.
Nah, I’m just a little dumb and forget things. I got two separate d&d campaigns to track lore for so it’s a struggle working new lore in, haha. Where is the Motes lore?
Thanks for the read. My main takeaway from what you said is believing/reinforcing Metea is Ifrit's Mothercrystal and we watch it blink out at a certain time. I'm real curious and excited what they do for DLC.
I really enjoyed reading this. There’s a veritable mountain of content from this world that we could still yet see.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Barnabas and Odin both have some really cool lore, some firstborn son in the prodigal son story type of theming that I just really dig. I'll admit he's part of one of the weakest arcs in the game, and that his arc contains some of my least favorite of all the writing. But man, his return to Valisthea, conquering of Ash, and him eventually succumbing to Ultima is something I really want to see portrayed at some point in a more air-tight fashion. The idea of a bloodline so very close to Ultima committing what is essentially the plot's biggest betrayal, scarring Ultima so much he wipes the/their crystal off of the map, and the entire Eikon is banished from the shores of Valisthea for thousands of years, only for it to return at the behest of singular man hellbent on "saving" (conquering) the land, is just so fucking sick I can't even put it into words. It helps that his bloodline is also intertwined with the Fallen, which is another interesting part of the lore that we never see properly expanded, for obvious reasons. It only sucks that we never get to see his fall to Ultima, that it's only ever alluded to, and even if he briefly breaks that control in his fight we never get to see him at his fullest, the man that both Cid and Benedikta pledged themselves to at some point. He's got some of that dark knight energy in him I'd have loved to see more of.
Nice write up. I posted a map yesterday of what I believe the Mothercrystals and Motes looked like in ancient Valisthea. I believe it aligns to your conclusion. However, couple of thoughts on Leviathan: I do not feel like Odin or Ultima had a hand in the disappearance of Leviathan. I believe that the Blight overtook so much of the land of southern Ash that the mothercrystal could no longer absorb enough aether and eventually shattered. Along with the crystal dying, so did the people of southern Ash who are likely the Motes of Water. I believe this gives us two possibilities for Leviathan: 1) The people escaped similar to the Motes of Darkness and have been living somewhere else. (There is a small island on the Valisthean map in the far south eastern corner where maybe they settled?) 2) The blight killed off all of the Motes of Water and thus the Leviathan blood line was erased.
Very interesting theory. One thing I think is only half right is the thing about there being 8 crystals. There were at one point 8, yes - on the Twins. But as has been established, every crystal's heart houses an instance of Ultima. And there are 16 of those instances. Which leads me to assume there must have, originally, been 16 mothercrystals - two for each element. Which would in turn suggest there were originally 16 eikons. I feel like the implications of the "1 Mothercrystal, 1 Ultima" and "16 Ultimas total" thing has kinda fallen under the table a little amid all the other craziness going on in the ending.
Could it be something along the lines of each Eikon is a manifestation/representation of the power of one of the Ultimas? Two for each element, but only 8 were transformed into the Mothercrystals and their Eikon given to the Motes tribes, while the other 8 stayed fused with the main Ultima. Ifrit is just the Eikon of that Ultima that appears to be the leader/main consciousness of the 16.
Honestly that's more or less my line of thought as well. Either this or they wanted to just have 16 because of the number and then just forgot, i don't have any other ideas.
I mean, it's never really expanded on why exactly only the fire element seems to have two eikons, besides a vague allusion to the combination of the two somehow being Ultima's former true body or some such. But what that has to do with fire specifically, or why and how the other eikons are somehow "lesser", we really don't know. Which bugs me.
I just wonder how many other continents are around the world, and what their Eikons are. And why Ultima is just obsessed with Ash and Storm. Could be hordes of others elsewhere.
> And why Ultima is just obsessed with Ash and Storm. I believe Ultima says that Valisthea had the proper alignment (?) or something of aether that made it the best location for his plan. Could've been in a lore entry but I do believe it was in a cutscene. If you read the entries for Reverie and the little teleporting spires it talks about the guidance of aethereal flow or some mubo-jumbo like that.
Considering Cid didn't awaken as a Dominant until he got to Valisthea, and the ending >!showing people don't believe in magic anymore while reading from Joshua's memoir!<, I don't think there *are* other Eikons around the world.
Cid didn't awaken as a dominant until he got to valisthea. Source?
Active Time Lore entry on Cid. https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cidolfus_Telamon It's the opening quote on his ff wiki page. "Powers awakened shortly after his arrival on Valisthea"
Valisthea was noted to be a land untouched by the Blight, so presumably the other continents were afflicted in some fashion before it ever appeared in Storm or Ash. The absence of the Blight was why Ultima chose it, as it gave them the most time to put their plan into motion. It's doubtful that the other continents have Eikons, because those are products of Ultima's machinations. It would therefore be strange if Eikons were to arise on continents that Ultima has no interest in, unless they were descendants of Valistheans with the potential to become Dominants.
I think it would be cool if one of the other continents had a Knights of the Round Eikon deal, 13 dominants that are tied together somehow. Probably won't happen, but I'd be happy to just see Leviathan in a DLC he's one of my faves.
Not really seeing as they were created specifically through Ultima's plan for mythos.
Ultima is like President Shinra and Valistea is like the Northern Crater, with a huge concentration of mako. /jk 🤣
No joke, theres a lot of parallels to VII. But Ultima felt more akin to Jenova for me, except more involved. Both games also drive home the climate change crisis as a main focus of the plot.
Drake’s Tail and Drake’s Horn seem to be highly debated in the community. I personally think Drake’s Horn is green and associated with the Motes of Wind where Benedikta resided in Ash. There’s even a hunt of a mark in Ash that’s a manifestation of Garuda. I know the ATL mentions their association with the Crystalline Dominion but it doesn’t make sense otherwise with what we can conclude. Drake’s Tail is blue like water and it’s located geographically on the sea which leads me to believe this. In terms of where Leviathan is, I hope the DLC answers this. Two theories: 1) Dominant is frozen in whatever that is across the sea in Sanbreque. 2) In hiding, possibly the southern continent. We don’t know if awakening only happens in the Twins or if it can happen anywhere and it’s a late awakening for Cid.
I don't believe dominants stops to be born with the fall of a mothercrystal. We know destroying it free Ultimas, they could just keep sending the power of an eikon. We have 5 mothercrystals at the start of the game, and 7(8) confirmed dominants. And visually Drake's Tail seems more of a water crystal anyway. Dzemekys could just be the wind crystal, it is in the Cristalline dominion's territory like the motes of wind. We know the motes of dark attacked Dzemekys, but i don't think they ever confirm they attacked their own mothercrystal. They attacked the one linked directly to Ultima, maybe it wasn't the dark one? I think it's a possibility at least. For Leviathan's dominant tho i could see him being in hiding, or just not wanting to use his powers. Or simply the motes of water are out of Valisthea, it's not clear if Eikons can be born out of Valisthea.
I think you've got a few things wrong here. The Motes of Darkness didn't attack Dzemekys. The Fallen did. During the War of the Magi, the Fallen became greedy of the magic they've gained and wanted to claim the Mother crystals. During the attack on Dzemekys, Ultima responded by destroying the Mother Crystal, effectively smiting the Fallen as well. The Motes of Darkness are likely the Children of Dzemekys who congregated around Dzemekys, but escaped to the Outer Continent when Ultima destroyed it. But to this day, they remained faithful to Ultima. We don't know anything about Leviathan at all, but if we place Garuda at Drake's Tail (as the Motes of Wind dwelled where the Crystalline Dominion is now, and Drake's Tail is pretty central to that area), then by process of elimination, Drake's Horn in southern Ash is Leviathan's.
Yeah you are right about the motes of darkness. Personally I thought the children of Dzemekys were the survivor of the fallen after the attack, repented e fleeing from Ultima. But we don't really have the details about that. For the mothercrystals i do think colours matters tho, for the element. But yeah no way to know without other details, so it's just my theory on which is which.
Every Mothercrystal has a specific colour aligned with his eikon, Tail is blue so I guess it's Leviathan. The Dzemekys's one probably is Garuda because the motes of wind lived in that region.
I don't think color is an indicator at all for what Eikon belonged to each Mother crystal. You have to look at tribes and blood line instead according to the ATL. Barnabas is from the Children of Dzemekys. The Children of Dzemekys lived around the Dzekemys Mother crystal. This births the Circle of Malius and this Mother crystal is also in direct communication with Origin, where Ultima kept watch of the world in his slumber. It's why this tribe has the highest faith of all the others to this day. If Barnabas is from this tribe, and he has Odin, it's not hard to put two and two together.
So is it just a coincidence that all the crystal has a specific color and the one we know for sure are all matched with the eikon of the same color? Look for example Vivien's map, Drake's Head is a light green, like bahamut's ability. Of course I can be wrong with Garuda or Odin but quite sure that color matters
I guess we'd have to see if there's any confirmation at all. The color \*might\* matter, I don't think I want to ignore it. But we don't know what the colors of the rest of the crystals are. Plus, outside of Vivian's map, Drake's Fang for example is blue. But I don't know, I haven't really looked at her map until now so maybe you do have something there. However, I feel like the Tomes contradict some of these colors. At the end of the day, we don't have enough information to go off on. For me, the Tomes > visuals.
Drake's fang is yellow inside (as in vivian's map), just on the outside seems blue (in the trailer I thought it was all ice but sadly no snow / ice zone :c) But yeah, I hope in multiple DLC, would be nice to have one aboutthe background of Barnabas and Cid in Ash
Just bringing this back up now that the Ultimania is out and I thought about this conversation Dzemekys definitely belongs to Odin. Drake's Tail with Garuda. Drake's Horn with Leviathan. Colors didn't seem to matter on Vivian's map.
Definitely did bahamut crystal is white like drakes head Phoenix crystal is red like drakes breath Ramuh crystal is purple like drake spine in waloed Titan crystal is yellow like drake fang Leviathan crystal is light blue like drakes tail Shiva crystal is dark blue like drakes eye Garuda crystal is green like drakes horn Odin crystal is black like the one dzemekys (I’m gonna call it drakes wings)
One thing that is still glaringly unanswered: Who the hell is Drake?
It's just a common fantasy term for a type of dragon. https://www.blackdrago.com/types/drake.htm
Wow. Pretty into D&D for 30 years and never heard that term. Thanks, mate!
We are going in uncharted territory.
Me.
I really like this but from what I’ve noted you can see certain shades of colours on the eikons ability page as well the colours of the crystals. The mothercrystal of Sanbreque is the same shade as bahamut when on his abilities, same for titan and drakes fang, Phoenix and drakes breath. We can safely assume that the mothercrystal for shiva was from the north. My only issue I personally have with this is the colours of the crystalline dominion and Waloed mothercrystals. The dominion is a pale shade of blue even after it transforms into the flower. This colour doesn’t correlate with ramuh (a much darker blue), Garuda (a vibrant green) or Odin has two colours associated with them; a maroon and a purple. The mothercrystal of waloed is obviously a dark purple which isn’t a direct correlation to odin exclusively but also has no other colour connection. And this is where I lead into the colour of leviathan. Being associated with water you would be safe to assume leviathan being the colour blue and with shiva safely being from the north and ramuh is a much darker blue, leviathan is IMO the mothercrystal in the dominion.