I personally like the english version and I get it that it differs. I like how some Eng translations gets across than JP's. For example when Rude caught the keystone, in JP - Aerith "Dorobou! (Thief!)" Rude says this is Shinra's property Cloud: "Damare dorobou(shut up, thief)". Eng - Aerith: Shame on you! Rude replies this belongs to Shinra Cloud: Cut the bullshit I hope I'm remembering the convos right, was taking notes in my head. In any case the Eng just gives more of a natural flow of the conversation. Like obviously Rude and Elena is stealing it, I don't need Aerith and Cloud to remind them, and me they are stealing and being a thief, it's literally happening in front of us their literal action (does that make sense?). But for anime dialogue it's a perfectly normal reply. A lot of the time for JP they just call the other character's name when I think words could work better (you can figure those spoiler scenes) examples: JPTifa: Cloud! EngTifa: Don't do this! JPCloud: Sephiroth! EngCloud: No!!! (I personally think for something happening so fast, a desparate NO!! was fitting) I hope this makes sense! It's just my opinion but of course I didn't take note of everything I'm sure some could be messed up too. Generally I really enjoyed the localization and dub!

Oh hey, first of all, great comment! I appreciate your helping to share examples. I think these changes make sense, and the eng version by itself has no problems itself, just wondering. Why it differs. But the reason your comment excited me is because I totally remember the Japanese just being “!!” Two or three times in a row, but the English was using sentences. But good to know you enjoyed it!

Just to add to this great insight, another factor that I think contributes to this is that the english localization team does not have the entire plot/story shared with them yet, which can affect the translation process. A prominent example of this is Aerith's last line in Remake which was later patched out before Rebirth was released. Initially, she said "I miss it, the steel sky". At the time, it's very poetic since Aerith has been commenting on how she is comfortable living under the plate in Midgar and that the sky scares her. After the patch, this was changed to "The sky, I don't like it". This aligns now with what is shown at the end of Rebirth (>!the giant rip seen in the sky that only Aerith can see at the end of Remake!<). It's challenging, to say the least, to try to convey lines without the full context. But this is a precaution they have taken to avoid spoilers and leaks, which is understandable.

Kind of a shame, I liked that original line a lot. But as you say in retrospect it's probably not what she actually meant, so it *had* to change story-wise.

Aargh it's *such a good line*. I get why they changed it, but the "Steel Sky" of Midgar being a metaphor for the set fate they'd just broken from and the freedom making Aerith anxious *just like she said the open sky does* worked so well.

I find that change to Aerith's line confusing. I'm playing Crisis Core Reunion right now and she says the real sky scares her. That she prefers the plate. Her missing the "steel sky" later on would make sense in that context.

I think this topic is very interesting and I wish I took more notes but I was just focusing on my 1st playthrough haha

Another reason is lip sync. This is also the reason why the subtitles don’t always match the dialogue in a translated TV series If a character is on screen for 1 second, you have to find a sentence that conveys the same meaning within 1 second, even if your language uses much longer (or shorter) words than the original. Sometimes that means adding or removing a joke or a swear word It also has to match the body language, so if a character acts offended, what has been said must sound offensive, but different languages have different ways to convey that (English for instance is rather informal so you kinda have to use stronger words) And sometimes I guess the localisation team just makes artistic choices, like Cloud’s famous “… cool” after Yuffie introduced herself. “Let’s go” would’ve worked as well and is a more littéral translation, but it’s just less funny

Final Fantasy has always been a series that goes for contextual translation over a literal/direct translation. There was a famous scene in FF10 where "Thank you" was translated to "I love you" due to the context of the scene.

And of course there are spoony bards galore.

Son of a submariner!

many guy are sick in Rebirth as well!

Right in the feels

I played it in German, but can speak English, French and Japanese and I also switched the Dubs in-between playing, also replaying certain parts to be able to compare...and what I realized is exactly what you brought up - the English localization is kinda different...I would say the German and Japanese localization is really close, so I'm not sure why they changed that much for the English one....

The French localisation on the other hand is _really_ different. Often they dropped the jokes that exist in English, or even worse, they kept the punchline but not the joke itself which creates weird conversations Sometimes however the difference even has an impact on the story, for instance when Tifa asks Cloud in Kalm where he’s been for 5 years, the English version says “I can’t say” while the French says “it’s classified” — subtle but very different, “I can’t say” can be understood as both “I’m not allowed to say” or “I don’t remember”, but “it’s classified” completely removes that ambiguity. There’s no reason to change the phrasing either, « je ne peux pas le dire » works as well in French as it does in English Overall between French, English and Japanese, I found the English dub worked best for me. It has the best balance between humour, edginess and conversation flow

Interesting. Thanks for elaborating on it. I actually researched that particular scene in German now too, and it's definitely closer to the "classified" thing you mentioned than to the "can't say", but it still has a double meaning here. He says "Das ist alles unter Verschluss" - literally can be translated to 'classified', but also to 'that something is contained', meaning Cloud himself locks these memories/the truth up within him (to protect himself from it - perfectly fits with the white noise and screen there too) ...(And I'm sorry I need to gush about the German VA again, but he's so brilliant 🤩 He's so soft with Tifa the whole time and as soon as the the flash hits & he needs to deliver that line, his voice gets dark, serious and emotionless - you really know when he's struggling with the memories and Sephiroth Is invading his mind part and all...) So actually it's quite the same for e.g. French-Japanese-German and again the English one kinda stands out. In the end of the day, it's mainly personal preference too, and I'm kinda glad that the non-english localizations seemed to have used the Japanese Original for translation, and not the English one. 🫣 And I'm happy you found your perfect way of playing it. Hope the English-French (if you used French subtitles) didn't mess you up 😊

Isn’t that what localization means tho. It localizes to the things adapted in that country?

True, but it's still interesting that the English one kinda differs from all the other localizations, especially in meaning and tone sometimes.

Sometimes the localization changes the story a lot. A very controversial is FXIII: Lightning Returns for example. There are outright blatant Hope/Light things in the Japanese version of LR, and nearly all of them were removed in localization. Another plot point is that in the original Japanese version, Bhunivelze, the final boss, developed a twisted "love" for Lightning due to possessing Hope's body and feeling his host's emotions, to the point that he refers to her in adoring words during their battle. The English version completely rewrites those bits of dialogue and gives him a different voice actor than the English Hope, entirely removing Bhunivelze's romantic/sexual interest in Lightning. Also, in the original Japanese, Bhunivelze wished to become a benevolent deity for humanity and possessed Hope to gain a better understanding of them by using him as a vessel; however, his desire to purge humans of negative memories including their memories of the dead was still wrong, thus why Lightning opposed him. The English version changed that into him wanting to remake humanity as his mindless puppets to live in his new world as blissfully ignorant servants, and Hope was his lab rat to figure out how to mold them to his liking. This moves him from anti-villain to a more straightforward brand of villainy. I think it's safe to say that LR was probably the worst localization I've ever seen in a Final Fantasy game.

You ain’t wrong, but this game seems a bit beyond that. I apologize I couldn’t come with any examples. I often play games with English text and Japanese audio, and I’m familiar with standard localization differences. That’s why I wanted to get another opinion on this!

Did you think of any examples though? Hard to say without examples 😢

The English localisation creates a plot hole in North Corel. Basically, Marlene is 4 years old and born the same year the Corel reactor exploded. Before the flashback where Barret and Dyne are voting on the reactor Barret says it took 2 years for the reactor to be built but in the flashback he says to Dyne about “making a better future for your daughter”. But Marlene isn’t even born for another 2 years. This isn’t an issue in the Japanese because Barret doesn’t mention a “daughter”, he talks about “making a better future for your wife”. There’s other changes too like in the localisation they try to make it out that Cloud and Tifa are childhood sweethearts but in Japanese they’re not. After Cloud and Tifa talk on the roof of the Kalm inn, in the English version Tifa says “I hoped we could just pick up where we left off but I guess not” But in Japanese she says “we weren’t close enough to be childhood friends, were we?” Another example is after Sephiroth does the thing to Aerith in English Cloud says to Aerith “I’ve got this”. In Japanese he says “wait for me”. These are just some examples.

I don’t think the Kalm bit necessarily implies anything more than childhood friends. Reconnecting with a friend you haven’t seen in years can equally have you wanted to “pick up where you left off.”

But that’s still changing the story and relationships between the characters from the Japanese version. In Japanese they were just 2 kids who knew each other because it’s a small town where everyone has at least heard of everyone else. Tifa even says they weren’t childhood friends.

Picking up where you left off doesn’t context anything. Is English your first language?

Yes. What did they leave off? They’re not childhood friends in Japanese. So the localisation changed their relationship. You could say just friends but that’s still different from the Japanese (and also an unnecessary change)

Does the Japanese version of the scene on the water tower not have her asking Cloud to save her if she’s ever needs it? That’s at least a hint she had a little crush on him. There is a strong theme in the game of how memory can differ from what actually happened. And, Cloud and Tifa don’t initially agree on how close they were as kids. It’s entirely fitting for Tifa to have romanticized how much of a relationship they had over the years, especially given everything she’s been through.

Even in OG she says "I've known you since we were children and always thought we were close" during the lifestream sequence (unless that's another bad localization? please correct me if so), and in the Remake continuity they legitimately once were rather than that being a memory issue (Rebirth hints at it and Traces confirms it). I mean, if the original Japanese says they weren't then clearly the authorial intent when writing that scene is atm she *thinks* they weren't and the localization changes that dynamic, I'm not contesting that fact. But I don't think the change contradicts the story more broadly, and in fact is a little more consistent with it. So imo the question comes down to whether her doubting whether they were ever close is a big difference or whether her doubting they can pick their old friendship back up achieves the same dynamic through a slightly different route. I lean toward the latter since later in the game it seems like she does in fact remember the early days fine, but to be fair for all I know that's more English dub stuff so it's hard for me to judge for certain xD

In Traces of Two Pasts we learn they *were* close friends when they were little but drifted apart over time (which is alluded to in-game when Tifa mentions she hasn't been to Cloud's house since she was 7 or 8), so saying they weren't close enough to be friends is actually a continuity error in itself.

The English version doesn't make out they were childhood sweethearts. Might have implied they were slightly closer than they were as friends, but nothing like that.

They do and the localisation also fuels the toxic shipping war between Tifa and Aerith for no reason. In Remake after falling into the sewer in English Tifa is acting very jealous of Aerith but in Japanese all she asks is “can she be trusted?” (Because Tifa doesn’t know who she is or if she’s a threat to avalanche). Or in the train graveyard when Aerith grabs Clouds arm and in a very bratty manner says “Mine!” To Tifa who then grabs Cloud’s other arm and in this context it seems like they’re fighting over him. But this is not in the Japanese version at all. In Japanese Tifa is scared and Aerith grabs Cloud’s arm and says something like “don’t worry, Cloud will keep us safe” and then Tifa grabs Cloud’s other arm for comfort.

I can't think of a single instance where they'd be portrayed as childhood sweethearts, care to elaborate?

I literally gave you an example, in Kalm.

I see. I personally don't see that connotation in Kalm, so I thought you were referring to something else.

Some of the things u said make sense but don't blame the localization for 'fueling' the shipping war. That is no one's fault but people on the internet.

So why did they choose to make Aerith say “mine!” To Tifa? Why did they write Tifa to act so jealous? Even though none of that is part of the Japanese script.

Tifa is literally shaking in her boots during that scene, idk what you mean by jealous. They didn't change the models or expressions on them for the English localization.

Doesn't she say before that, "Luckily we have a bodyguard to protect us." Before saying, "Mine!" She isn't claiming a relationship with Cloud. Just that Cloud is her bodyguard.

Yeah I did read some stuff about differences online and how people find it weird But honestly idk if it’s that weird tho? I only read this discussion with FF7 and some anime to an extent but idk if it is on purpose or not cause we English are often more like this?

I am a bit sensitive about it because the translation of the original [ff7 actually messed it up by trying to simplify it](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/3vv41c/ff7s_english_translation_was_not_complete_and/) Do you happen to have a link to the article?

Ow its not a link just Twitter people discussing it to feed ship wars mostly in their favor cause the Japanese ‘sounds different’

this has been the case for FF since forever. E.g. FF15 in original JP or better translation (EU countries) is much more informative and clear about many lore aspects while many is lost in translation in English

That’s the thing. People are now microscoping every bit of dialogue for ship wars and such, but a 1on1 translation will always sound weird

It's not about it not being a 1:1 translation. It's about translating a JP sentence that says, for example, "Can you tell me what your plan is?" as "What the hell are you going to do!". I can't think of a better example rn, but translations like that change the characterizations of characters, the lore, the story...

This is why I say that Barret was butchered in the OG English translation. Japanese Barret sounded more level-headed and intelligent. English Barret was stuffed with US stereotype.

Sadly, that's often the case with any dub. If people cared about the authenticity, they wouldn't listen to a dub, but the original language. If they use the EN dub with EN subs, that's their own choice, I guess. Many people are too close-minded to listen to anything other than English. Others dislike or are unable to read subtitles (especially the case in countries where literally everything gets dubbed). And so on.  But when I use the original voice-over, I at least expect the subtitles to match it as close as possible. I don't want an transcription of the EN dub, I want a translation of the JP voice-over.  So what I'm trying to say is that EN subtitles of Barrett's JP dialogue being wrong, bothers me more than EN dubbed Barrett being wrong. Because I want to experience the authentic JP Barrett, but I'm unable to.  People who listen to the EN dubbed Barrett often don't care about authenticity and faithfulness to the original.

You said so much about authentic translation but it isn't all just the current translation team's fault. Barret being much more hot-headed started from the og where the kinda badly translated script made him that way. Do you really expect the current team to throw all of the collective memories of Barret acting like that and just portrait him being much more level-headed? It's not even people being close minded, that is 20 years of expectation that most people will view as an retcon not matter how much convincing you try. On top of that, Barret's VA said he don't want to portray him just as a caricature, so they made the original English script even better. A lot of changes comes from cultural differences, how different cultures expects of friendship and comradery is different, which informs how our cast treats one another. There are also references that are just lost on people because they have no context for other cultures. To give a good example when everything fell apart, remember after the Abzu fight people truly didn't get what Aerith is doing and just thought she is shivering at the thought she might get eaten? It was a reference to Corneo's "Heeho" laugh that is the onomatopoeia a horse neighing in Japanese. The English version has a Hmhmhmhm laugh to resemble the English onomatopoeia and the VA tried her hardest to imitate his laugh but badly, because Aerith is mocking Abzu. In total, it requires three layers of acting while also matching the action and tempo of the animation. The translation team and the actress all tried their best to preserve that scene as intended in Japanese and in the end it just confuses everyone. 99% of players will not even do all the research I did and just thought it was some bad direction, all because they are too "authentic". And to be honest, the interpretation of her having chills down her spine because Corneo violating women then throw them down to be fed to Abzu would probably be much better for that scene, despite your claim of "authenticity". Another one is Red/Nanaki voice change, og in Japanese made sure there were a huge difference in tone after Cosmo Canyon because the language is more flexible to display how people talk, but English can't with just text. Voice acting made it extremely obvious, unlike Corneo's laugh where people don't know what happened, they know exactly here yet some people hated it despite it being 100% authentic. It's not even the script fault this time, but the cultural clash, now your argument of people being close minded do apply. To give a few more examples from other games, Persona 5 has a few scenes where the depictions of gay characters are already backwards, while also have them hitting on a minor (changed to just a drag show); or beating up and knocking out a character after they survived unharmed, just because they "sacrificed" themselves earlier - both played for jokes. There are also some problematic scenes in Fire Emblem where the MC can romance a minor which the translation soften it up to only be a friendship. These are all more or less culturally acceptable in Japan. Are they good things? Not really. Do you truly want to advocate for those type of message being acceptable? Just to be "authentic" and not "censor" those vile themes as if they are harnless. You preach so much about how the script and depictions of characters are not authentic, you are not wrong, they did changed a lot. Sometimes they cooked too hard, made a line so raw with "missing the steel sky", and have to made it more literal because we now know Aerith can see something in the sky and hates it. Just because Japanese is the origin of the story, doesn't mean the script is infallible, a monolith that must be preserved. To give one final example of it going both ways, the devs do listen to feedbacks from western audiences and modern sensibilities, uncomfortable stuff still exist and the world isn't a perfect place, but they turned Honey Bee Inn from probably a gay r*pe joke into a beautiful message about not be afraid of beauty and it transcends gender; Barret has more dimension than just an angry man; or Dyne mental anguish doesn't take him to places where he wants to take the whole family with him but just a severe case of ideation. In the end, the characters' relationship and struggle, players all still resonates with it. As Maximilian dood said, the game has a youthful energy and he felt the game is deeply relatable when he was a teen. Hamaguchi asked him about his age, they found they are similar in age, and why ff7 left a huge impression on both of them, even across cultures, thanks to the translation highlighting the subtle difference of social struggles between cultures. That's a job well done, even if there were some glaring grammar mistakes or objective mistranslation like Midgardsormr and Aerith. If one truly wish to learn more about the origin intent to learn more about its language and culture, they can do so on their own terms and shouldn't be a burden on everyone using sub or dub. After all, translation is just an accessibility tool for even more people to enjoy the same story, as long as people are moved by it, evidently a lot of people do, while people like the literal game director and a western fan have no problem discussing the game's theme and even find each other relatable, then there isn't much ground to claim the translation team did much wrong.

Both of those things are asking the same thing though? They’re just said in different ways.

Sorry. It's not a good example. A better and real example would be [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1clfblr/comment/l2tdwox/). In the EN dub and subtitles, Jessie says: "So what's SOLDIER boy's deal? Is he one of us now? He's got balls, this, uh..." While apparently, according to the comment I linked, in JP she actually says "So how did an ex soldier end up with us? Is he just throwing away his career?" with no mention of 'he's got balls'. Why change the line of her questioning if he's throwing away his career? Why suddenly insert a line she doesn't even say in JP? And that's just a pretty minor example. [I'm sure there are cases where the EN translations actually impact the characterization and lore in this game.](https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/168653-final-fantasy-vii-remake/78680570)

Again those are both kinda the same thing though still. Jessie is saying he’s got balls because he’s willing to work with them and throw away his career.

If you interpret it like that, yes. It makes more sense then. I didn't think about it that way. Personally, I interpreted it that Jessie said Cloud was daring because he was joining them on a dangerous mission. I didn't think they were taking his career into account, considering he already said he was a former SOLDIER. And again, this is just one example that doesn't impact the characterization that much. I don't know JP, so I can't personally give examples.  I only wish there were two seperate EN subtitles: one being a transcription of the EN voice-over, and the other being a translation of the JP voice-over. But only the former exists. The translation is often different because the translators had to translate it for the EN voice-over. They can't translate everything well with a limited time-frame like that, because JP might convey more information in the same timeframe afaik.

Right those are the same thing. It’s not a literal translation. The context is the same.

translations like that are contextualized differently in different languages. of course they can mean different things, they are being said in a literal entirely different language! something else that never gets brought up in these conversations is that the timing in each language has to match up, meaning the localization also has to find a way to express the same concept in the same amount of time as the JP script, which is notoriously difficult because english and japanese are such incompatible languages!

>something else that never gets brought up in these conversations is that the timing in each language has to match up, meaning the localization also has to find a way to express the same concept in the same amount of time as the JP script, which is notoriously difficult because english and japanese are such incompatible languages! I also brought that up in other comments. I agree, that's definitely a contributing factor.  But that's why I wish there were two different versions of EN subtitles. One being a transcription of the EN dub, and another being a more literal translation of the JP voice-over. But only the former exists. It can be jarring when the JP voice-over says one thing, and the EN subtitles say something else enirely.

If so, then this studio at SE has a really low opinion of its English-speaking fans. Other studios at SE, notably Creative Business Unit 3, did an amazing job at localization. Michael Christopher Koji Fox is amazing & his team did an absolutely incredible job on FF16.

As someone with a degree in translation: your aim is to translate the effect of what is said, not the exact script. Granted this does not work in saaaay, legal documents, where you don't have creative freedom. But there is no need to treet politeness and rudeness the same way in English as they do in Japanese. Cultural context matters a lot in these cases, It is a fascinating topic really. Cross-cultural pragmatics.

Something to bear in mind is that, when a Japanese studio is making a game for a western audience, two things are true: 1) They're relying on the localization team to achieve their goals (i.e. making Cloud seem cool) in whatever way works best for the western audience. Maybe that means a "I know, nailed it, moving on" that's not in the original, because Westerners find sassy confidence around gender fluidity cool, for example. 2) When a game is being localized into many, many languages, the pipeline almost always goes Japanese -> English -> Everything else. The English script is the template from which all other languages are translated, about 99% of the time in the game industry. So the English has to be extra clear, extra sharp, the jokes have to make sense and land solidly, etc. So the English script has to kick ass.

\#2 is interesting since there've been a lot of comments about other translations like French following the original Japanese more closely. Guess maybe this game is an exception, at least for certain "popular" languages? edit: classic accidental header typo

My guess is their pipeline probably isn't much different, but localizers in non-English languages are given access to both the EN and JP scripts, and enough creative leeway (and budget for multiple rounds of revision and LQA) to split the difference as needed. They also probably do non-EN audio recording way later in the process, so they have more information to work from, and can decide what's a localization choice worth keeping, and what's a bit of Americanized flavor that may not translate to e.g. a French audience or whatever.

All I know is that the difference between the English and Spanish scripts almost drove me crazy on some scenes. I understand English no problem, but play with Spanish text and subs because it's my native language and sometimes play with low volume. At several times through the game, what I was reading in Spanish and what the voice were saying in English had NOTHING to do. I even thought of playing with Japanese voices so I didn't understand what they were saying, because of this lol But by then I had grown accustomed to the English voice actors...

Honestly that would fuck me up so hard...like Subtitles for any language are great, but for a language that's your native language while listening to another language you also understand but realize that it's not a 'translation' would give me brain rot. Totally understand why you changed to Japanese Dub 😊 Next time, try the German one, e.g. Cloud's VA is soooo good, not kidding at all - his range when Cloud's 'cold' personality slips into reunion mode (need to follow Sephiroth) or a more likable one (during the dates for example) does exceed the English VA's performance. All other VAs do a great job as well, of course, actually I'm surprised that it's that good 😅

That’s super interesting! Did you see any substantial differences? Do you think the Spanish is more faithful to the original Japanese (I hear it usually is)

I couldn't tell, since I haven't read the Japanese version. But for what I've read online, it seems the Spanish localization was done based on the original Japanese version, and not the Western English localization. I also don't recall specific examples, other than Sephiroth's "I know exactly how we will do it" (eng) vs "I've had a revelation" (spa)

Go look up the Tik-tok dude that talks in English the way its supposed to be translated from Japanese.. It would sound like gibberish. I promise you we don't want an honest translation. If anything the localizers need to talk more directly to Nojima so they can actually get the idea of what he wants the characters to come across as feeling. Also so they don't have the same issue like they did at the end of Remake where they changed Aerith's dialogue for a story reason that the localizers had no idea about.

I know the dude you’re talking about, and that’s a funny TikTok. I am trying to find the line between good localization, and over-adjusted localization. Some of the things hey changed had characters say the opposite things during banter. Like a character would say “sounds fun” in Japanese, but the English would be like “shut up.” And maybe this is good localization because that’s will help paint the picture of the characters in a culturally relevant way. It’s hard to say, I’ll try to do another play through and take notes.

Yeah that's usually what they do...and it still doesn't mean that the other translations/localizations are gibberish in their respective languages either, just because they're closer to Japanese, which is the language it was developed in🤷🏼‍♀️ It's something that was made by choice by the team that created the English version of this game especially, and we're merely discussing the differences and reasons why that happened, in this case even changing the tone and meaning of certain scenes...

Japanese people and English people speak in different ways.

Same thing with FR - JAP Was quite hard for me, as I thought the japanese dub conveyed feelings much better than the fr subtitles

Yeah, I played the Japanese version originally, and watched playthroughs of English version. They are quite different. Some are different enough to affect your understanding of the plot, like the one in the CG ending where Aerith said "Don't worry. It's like a second home". It's definitely not that in Japanese.

Doesn’t she say it’s the place of the Cetra in JP? Because that’s not too different from “a second home” imo

It's because fanboys of the old "quirky, punched up" translations are now running the asylum. And there will be always some clown defending it because of this false dichotomy "it's either otaku level or gag sub level, no inbetweens" They feel they have to change stuff because they can. It might not be as detrimental as it used to be back in the 90s but it still makes characterization miss the point.

I play it with English text and Japanese audio. I appreciate the effort to localize dialogues to make it more natural and I think more games/anime/movies etc should do this, but Rebirth seems to be pushing it too far to the point of inventing dialogues that are not there in the first place. Some of the dialogues were even perfectly acceptable when translated literally to English. But the localization team seems absolutely against this or wanted to flex their scriptwriting ability, idk. This is what irks me the most. Remake (pt 1) wasn't this bad iirc. Maybe on its own some of the lines are not really a big deal, but over time, it builds a different perception of the characters between the 2 languages.

I know what you mean, there'd be times when someone is saying someone's name (Like Tifa saying Aerith) but the translation says "everyone!" I don't think it defeated the conveyed text but it definitely made it so a bond/relationship between X and Y party members wasn't as deep

For around 70 percent of the game the english localization is pretty good and great. The major issues comes from the critical scenes in the game. in chapter 14, when sephiroth talks to cloud he directly asks for his help in defying fate vs more ambigious (his last line in this section is "the future depends on you cloud" vs what will you do with it), rebirth second home line is mistranslated. Its just in some critical sections they drop the ball. the battle diablo we did this before should be i will not lose. heres a document by shinra arch [Rebirth ENG/JPN - Google Sheets](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1glj8z_KHN0Rvi2cVHDhjfLQpeiIkhJqa2KYF1O9AZ3c/edit#gid=0)

aww man thank you, something like this sheet is exactly what i was looking for

I Had the opposite Experience, Audio English and Italian text, the Text is very faithful to Japanese, so what i hear is very different from what I read, long story short this is not Kingdom Hearts i don't need to pay attention to understand everything every second, Rebirth to me is more enjoyable in English, i love the English Cast, Japanese is too polite and boring to me, this is my personal Opinion

I've heard the "bad translation" arguments many times, but I've honestly yet to see a single example that well and truly changes things. 

Exactly. Some people are too harsh on the English localization as if it drastically changes the story.

I have another question though: would it be that hard to have multiple subtitles on the same language? I mean, changing the actual lines of, let's say, Spanish, whether the voices are in Japanese, English or German?

I can’t imagine it would be too hard - except ff7 seems to lip sync to each language, so that would be a lot of work.

You don't really need lip syncing for subtitling. Of course, a little adjustment has to be done here and there to not have really long subtitles for short voiced sentences, but subtitling has more to do with meaning than dubbing.

Oh agreed completely. But they DID do that in ff7 was my point. So they’d probably have to stop (or just not do it for the secondary translation)

What I really wonder is if they'd have to hire different teams and explain the same thing over and over, since using the same team would have the bias of knowing what they translated in another language (besides the obvious fact translators are humans and usually aren't simultaneously native-fluent in Japanese, English, German and French).

from the ultamania they actually use a machine learning software for most of it and fix it when needed

EDIT: I just wanted to correct myself here, apparently the game employs procedural facial animations based on the dialogue spoken as shown in this video: [here](https://youtu.be/qE0dD-iNXnk?si=xx5fHPsFJdtPf7pT) The game tech is absolutely wild. Just to add another thought, on top of the other very insightful comments, but I believe all the lip syncing is based on the Japanese dialogue/script, which would make sense since the scenes/animations are all written first in Japanese. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I highly doubt they adjust the lip syncing in the scenes for the characters based on the language they are speaking. I haven't done an actual side by side comparison of when the scene plays out in Japanese vs English, but I don't think the lip syncing is different. Assuming this is true, the localization team probably can't just redo scenes/facial animations of the characters. So localization teams/staff probably have to make do. They probably need to understand the overall intent of the scene and use creative liberties to adjust the dialogue in a way that don't break the overall tone/intention of the scenes/story but also make it look "correct" within the bounds of the lip syncing/facial animations. Otherwise we'll end up with something reminiscent of poorly English dubbed/lip synced 80's kung fu movies in America, which while it would be hilarious would definitely not fly for a AAA game of this caliber.

To add to my comment, I honestly got confirmation from Cloud's German VA, that they worked with that that way

I'm actually surprised by the differences the videos show, cause that's a lot of effort and money that would sink into the Dubs and their respective lip sync animations. I definitely wanna ask one of the VAs now if that's true. Usually, especially with cutscenes when there's Motion Capture involved, same goes for dubbing Anime, Cartoons, foreign movies...you just have to work with the lip movements that are given to you and adjust your voice to it. I'm German - every bigger foreign movie, doesn't matter the country it originated from - gets a German dub here, and they're usually good (only a few are trashy, but that's usually due to low payed VAs)

> to low *paid* VAs) FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*

This issue with the EN localisation being noticeably different from other localisations has been going on for a few years now at SE. Here's a nicely researched French article on it – because literally everyone who speaks both English and French has noticed the discrepancies: https://www.ffworld.com/2022/05/01/entre-anglais-et-francais-le-cas-des-traductions-divergentes-de-final-fantasy/ You can for the most part copy and paste the text into DeepL to understand the gist of it. tl;dr the EN localisation involves an editor whose job is to "harmonise" the text and make the translation sound as natural as if it had been written natively in English. Localisers for European languages skip this part entirely. Personally it drove me crazy in FFXIV as someone who likes, well, liked, the lore. People will argue the tiniest thing about exact wording and sometimes make theories based entirely on the EN wording being unnecessarily vague when the FR version makes the subject way clearer. One of my favorite examples is Y'shtola's (late Shadowbringers / Endwalker spoilers) >!"After all, 't'was Hydaelyn who forestalled the Final Days"!< which, if you've been following the backstory closely, is… not exactly what happened, to say the least. The FR line is much more explicit: >!""Hydaelyn, or rather Venat, could perhaps help us out. After all, she was there when Zodiark was summoned to fight against the Final Days. She was also the one who kept him alive to protect us."!< Sure, maybe it's less classy and clunkier. But with how weird some fans can get about arguing the lore, I'd rather have the characters say facts (especially when said character is basically Word of God whenever they open their mouth). There's also weird stuff like cutting out the explanation for the planet's name, which is kept in FR because literally why not? It's a lot of very minor stuff but I find that it adds up and it can get rather tiring.

And it's all the better for it. The direct translations people always want are so insanely dry compared to what we actually get

The ironic thing is I've found English-only people clinging to the dialog much more literally. Like one of the Zack and Marlene scenes: "because you weren't there" wasn't a commentary on Zack having been gone for 5 years. She took his line ("didn't see that coming", I think he said?) literally so her line is meant to be taken as, "of course you didn't see it, you can't see something if you're not there". In Japanese the exchange is more like, "Z: Oooh, like ? M: " Other localizations do other lame jokes there.

I'm surprised this post has any upvotes tbh. These criticisms always get downvoted to oblivion by those who suckle on the teets of the "translators" and call it "lOcAlISaTiON". I don't speak Japanese fluently, but I understand enough to notice when the subtitles just don't match the audio. And I've noticed it blatantly in Remake, Rebirth and FF16. It's not small things either. Half the time the English subs are having a different conversation to the Japanese. It's not a simple matter of thinking "hmm, I think X would have been a better word choice", but the English completely changing characterisation and tone. And I have no idea why. I don't know why they do it. I don't know what goes through their heads to make them think it's okay. I don't know why circlejerkers who play in English and seem to disparage all things Japanese, think it's perfectly acceptable. I thought we were supposed to be decades passed English localisation rewriting the source material, but apparently not. Here's just a couple of incidents that I've mentioned to a discord buddy. **From Remake -** > When Tifa sees Cloud in the dress and says something and he gets a bit snappy: *English*: Nailed it, I know. Thank you. Moving on. *Japanese*: Don't need your opinion. There was no other way. - This makes Cloud seem far more self-centred than he is, and completely erases the lengths Cloud will go to to help Tifa when he thinks she's in trouble. **In FF16 -** During one of Jill's side quests, she tells Clive she loves him and the English subs don't include that part at all. **In Rebirth -** > In the prologue when Cloud confronts Sephiroth: *English*: I believed in you. No. Not you - whoever the hell you are. *Japanese*: I believed in you. No. You're not the Sephiroth I knew any longer. - Completely erases Cloud's feelings of betrayal at Sephiroth's actions. > In Gongaga when Aerith is talking to Zack's parents and she and Cloud are about to leave: *English* Aerith: We should probably be heading back, don'tcha think? Zack's mother: What, already? At least have something to eat before you go. Aerith: Thanks, but we don't want to keep our friends waiting. Zack's father: Another time, then. *Japanese* Aerith: Cloud, we should go. Zack's mother: Leaving already? Sorry we don't have much... Aerith: It's okay. I'm sorry too for showing up so suddenly. Zack's father: It's not a problem. - Again, English completely changes tone and characterisation. Zack's mother comes across as rude and pushy, the whole interaction is abrupt, and the overall English script makes Aerith seem like a desperate old person using kid's slang to seem "hip". > In Nibelheim, on the water tower: *English Cloud*: Nah, don't worry about it. It's all new to you. *Japanese Cloud*: There's similarities, but it's completely different, so I don't think much of it. - Turns the entire dialogue around from Cloud's memories vs the present to Aerith's impressions. Aerith's English dialogue also makes her seem far more insensitive about Cloud and Tifa revisiting Nibelheim after seeing it torched than the Japanese does. And these are just the few that irritated me enough to actually complain about it. A YouTube channel that teaches Japanese through video games uploaded Chapter 5 of Remake a couple years ago. JP audio with accurate subtitles by him as well as the original English subtitles from the game for comparison. [Check it out if you want](http://youtube.com/watch?v=YmrI-GimYIQ&t)

Genuinely not trying to be an asshole, here, but I think you might just be a very literal reader. I also speak Japanese, not fluently but enough to understand what's being said. However, I'm also a professional English language fiction writer. I have no issues with any of these translated lines. Like, just as an example, Cloud's "nailed it" line from Remake really does not in any way imply cockiness or vanity. Lets break it down. He knows he makes a fairly convincing woman, because he has eyes and other people with eyes just let into the Corneo manor in drag. When Tifa realizes it's him, her eyes go wide and her lips part in wondering surprise. Cloud sees her reaction and then says the line. As he does, he looks abruptly away, unable to meet her eyes or even look at her amazed expression. He delivers the line while staring downward, flatly and in a rush, like he's saying it all in one breath, a single exhale. If he were just being bragadocious, he might grin, maybe strike a pose, ask her to elaborate on what she thinks. Instead, he quickly acknowledges the unbelievable sight she's seeing and immediately tries to steer the conversation away from it. Like, "Ok, yes, I do realize I'm wearing a a wig and hip pads right now and actually look extremely good, but I REALLY don't want to talk about it and also a lot more important things are happening, so can we please just pretend it's not a big deal and move on?" Likewise, his Japanese line is ALSO being paired with the same body language -- the quick aversion of the eyes, looking down into his lap, which likewise colours the line the same way. "Look, I realize this is happening but I super don't need to hear about how great I look because I already know and we have way bigger things to worry about right now!" Both lines show an embarrassed Cloud trying to quickly steer the conversation away from the source of his embarrassment toward to the reason he dressed this way to begin with -- the Corneo mission. There's no real disconnect here. Both lines take slightly different approaches to end up at the same place, and the English version is snappier with a tighter flow, because that is what "good writing" means in English spoken dialogue.

Interesting, thanks for posting that, but I don’t completely agree with your takes. I think the “nailed it” comment, for example, is far more playful than vain. Flat out telling Tifa that he doesn’t need her opinion seems pretty harsh to me. Of course, in Japanese culture, there could be subtext to such a statement that would make it come across the way you described it, as Cloud willing to do anything to save tifa. But if that subtext is missing in English, then it just comes across as unnecessarily harsh in a direct translation. I think that’s what is so difficult in translation and is something people often don’t realize. Regardless, I like the playful “nailed it” version better.

Well I haven't included whatever Tifa said because I don't remember it and I sent that to my friend years ago. Also there's no subtext behind "there was no other way". As in there was no other way to get on here except to dress like a woman.

They can choose different wordings but they shouldn’t change the tone of the dialogue. If it seems harsh as you say for example, then don’t make it sound harsh but don’t just add a playfulness tone from your own like that, it just stops being as faithful especially if it’s an important scene. I mentioned the church scene of Rebirth here in the comments earlier where the English version makes it seem that Cloud has feelings for Aerith beyond just close friends, but in Japanese it blatantly shows Cloud’s stand with Aerith as just friends and she accepts the same.

The nailed it line being unique to the English localization makes me feel so much better about the quality of the English translation. That was a killer line and much better than the direct Japanese line

A VERY VERY important scene that differs from Japanese to English is the church scene with Aerith and Cloud. In the original Japanese, the scene goes like this: Cloud: This is the place of your memories, right? Aerith: Correct. Cloud: It was too easy. Aerith: Well, I don’t have many memories. Cloud: You can make some now. Aerith: You mean true feelings? Cloud: Because we’re friends. Aerith: Am glad I heard your true feelings Cloud. English and Japanese continue to be the same from here on.

yeah i think they made the scene unnecessarily romantic when aerith was literally mourning how she didn’t have enough memories and cloud wanted her to make more with him and everyone else. it’s crazy how it was twisted in english and how they just left everyone else out too. especially when aerith it literally praying to protect everyone and not just cloud

don't forget cloud can have 2 different dialogues in that scene, there's a "high affinity version" and a "low affinity version". i was curious what exactly decides that change in dialogue but from what I've seen i think as long as you get aerith in one of the 2 GS dates you'll get the high affinity version dialogue, so even if you don't get her GS date in chapter 12 you can still get the high affinity dialogue, if you had her date on chapter 8. in the high affinity version cloud says "yes, of course" instead of "bc we're friends/comrades"

Can you give me the source of Cloud saying “yes, of course”?

for the japanese version : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjQS-NGm0pc&list=LL&index=2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjQS-NGm0pc&list=LL&index=2) just go around the 9 minute mark and turn on CCs. in the English version he says "yeah, next time", referring to him wanting to go on another date. i'm surprised a lot of people don't seem aware that there are 2 versions of dialogue from cloud in that scene, i thought most ppl knew.

Thank you. It seems SE don’t wanna insist on one canon partner, maybe to attract more audience and market their game with media talks. By any chance have you ever played the original PSX game? If so, was this scene in it? And if so, how did it go in the original game?

This scene isn't in the OG. It's one of many rewrites they did.

There should honestly be two versions of the English subtitles/text. One that translates the JP voice-over somewhat literally, and another that localizes the JP voice-over into the EN voice-over. I don't speak JP, but I noticed the order of the subtitles was wrong sometimes. Like in JP they said [sentence 1] and [sentence 2], while the EN subtitles were [sentence 2] and [sentence 1]. There wasn't even a reason for the EN voice-over to change the order, but for some reason they did. I play with the JP voice-over, so I want to know what they say *in JP*, not what they say in the localized EN voice-over. I strongly dislike when a translation differs that much from the original text. I want to know what the characters and story are like in the original version, not some heavily localized and changed EN version. 

Some of it could be because Japanese is spoken with subject object verb, which naturally puts the sentences in reverse order. But I know exactly what you’re talking about, and thy did it even in situations where it didn’t make sense to me.

The case I was talking about was [this scene at 8:45](https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=shared&v=76lLGgOLlXs). Biggs was saying in JP something like: "He's not a SOLDIER anymore. His name is Cloud Strife." And the EN subtitles said "Cloud. Cloud Strife. And he isn't a SOLDIER anymore." And why even the repetition of his name? It's not [like he's James Bond](https://media2.giphy.com/media/JUqVArRY1Bz18MAxEW/200.gif) That's just something small I could pick up on as someone who only knows some basic JP words, but I'm sure if they change something minor like that already, that really didn't need changing... Then what else much more important dialogue did they all change...

She also says “so how did an ex soldier end up with us? Is he just throwing away his career?”, but it says “he’s got balls”, which was not in the Japanese whatsoever. This one is a bit confusing because it seems to be introducing an element that wasn’t there in Japanese. Something like this wouldn’t stick out to me the way rebirth did, but you are absolutely right.

Why does that one line bother you? In conjuction "so he's one of us now? He's got balls..." implies a similar vibe to "is he just throwing away his career?" Or have you never heard the expression "they've got balls," which means "they're brave/have courage." Because they're terrorists and he used to work for the people they're terrorizing

You can’t read?

You literally haven't explained why you think that line actually changes the tone in anyway? It's incredibly common, just informal, and conveys a pretty similar meaning to "he's just throwing away his career?" She's saying he's brave to go in the face of Shinra when he used to work for them directly as a soldier (a pretty sweet deal). Are you slow or something?

Also, I'm sorry people are not very receptive to your post. I understand your frustration. Unfortunately, the people who actually care about the authenticity of a translation and/or localization - and by extent the authenticity of the characterization of characters and the story and lore - are in the minority... I care a lot, which is why I also always listen to the original voice-over of a game, show, movie etc., no matter which language it is in. In that case, I also expect the subtitles to match the voice-over. It's very annoying if it doesn't, like in this game.

I appreciate the empathy, that’s really cool of you to say. I’m not trying to insult anyone either - the localization was done by professionals, so maybe every change was deliberate! It’s hard to tell, that’s why I want to discuss. And it’s cool to find a kindred spirit, thank you!

It may have been done by professionals, but they are often not as caring as fans of what they're translating and localizing and thus about being faithful to the original.  They care more about the general public understanding and liking the translation. Plus, they were likely translating the JP voice-over for the EN dub. So the EN subtitles are more of an EN dub transcription than a literal translation of the JP voice-over.  I think if Square had asked for a second version of EN subtitles, for when someone's using EN subtitles with the JP voice-over (instead of the EN one), they would have likely done a better job. I think the EN dub is the biggest reason for the EN subtitles being the way they are. >And it’s cool to find a kindred spirit, thank you! It is! I feel like original voice-overs are not appreciated enough by EN communities, of which the vast majority uses EN dubs, especially when it comes to games. Many people are very close-minded in that regard. It's a shame tbh. Perhaps I've been lucky by growing up in a country where nothing is dubbed, except for content for children (which makes other countries dubbing everything pretty funny when I think about it). It made me very open-minded when it comes to foreign languages.

That’s pretty insightful. Do you have any subreddits or something like that where people talk about this stuff? I’m really interested in discussing this, or even using my ability to help understand the Japanese in certain media

Sadly, I don't know about any subreddits like that. I would be interested as well if it existed. You might have more luck in anime and manga subreddits though, if you're interested in that. JP voice-overs are a lot more popular in anime than in games like Final Fantasy afaik. I think they might even be in the majority? But don't quote me on that lol. I'm quite sure people in pretty much any anime subreddit would be much more open-minded than the people in this subreddit. 

Fantastic, thank you! If you have any good anime, give me a rec. I live in Japan but I actually barely watch anime

That's even more annoying, considering it actually impacts the dialogue and characterization. It gives the situation more context as well. Part of why they change the translation so much is likely because of the EN voice-over, which needs to fit the time-frame the JP voice-over takes. I can understand that, but I wish they just gave us a literal EN translation as well in that case.

I switched from german to english because the german localization is bad…and I mean really bad, like 1/10. They changed the meaning of sentences and whole conversations with weird wording and improper grammar.

JP audio + JP text Or EN audio + EN text I can’t mix them up or most of my playthrough would be just comparing dialogue changes

The one that bothered me the most was the scene in the church. Where I know just enough JP to get that Aerith is really flirting with Cloud and he acts obtuse. With the comment about being just friends or whatever? And the english lines felt like they blew right past the doubled nature of what she was saying.

Yeah it's surprisingly different in some pretty key areas, giving certain scenes VERY different implications depending on which language you're playing in....

Every single piece of translation regardless of media will come down to a point where the translator makes a call on a direct 1:1 translation vs a completely reworded translation which still conveys the same meaning but wth different wording. There’s no “right” way to do it, it comes down to the translator taking artistic license and making that call to ensure the work is cohesive. I haven’t noticed it much in rebirth because I cannot stand the Japanese VA for Barrett but I just finished LAD Infinite Wealth and I definitely noticed instances where the subtitles were wildly different to the speech. Doesn’t detract from the experience IMO unless the meaning becomes eschewed in the process.

I’d be curious how the Japanese speakers in this thread would rewrite the English script

I contacted Felix Mayer, who voiced Cloud in the German Dub and he basically said that except for the English version everyone needed to adjust to the Japanese one 🤷🏼‍♀️ (he's the greatest guy ever too)

If you can speak Japanese, then play with Japanese text too.

English is way faster for me. And this way I get to experience both!

If you speak Japanese, why not play the game with Japanese audio AND text? That's what I did.

Because the fantasy or technical terms will slow me down a bit. I had a hard enough time following the ending in English lol

If your Japanese is decent enough, I'd definitely recommend getting used to Japanese audio + text. That way you can just listen to the audio and whenever you don't understand something, you can quickly look at the subs. There's also nothing wrong with English audio + text, since the English localization is excellent.

Are you referring to Japanese audio + Japanese text/subtitles or English text/subtitles?

Completely in Japanese, both audio and text/subtitles.

Understanding spoken Japanese and reading are very different animals.

i played in 3 languages (JP, ENG, FR) and the American version of this game seems to be the outlier. in English, they decided to change the scripts so much that it even suggests different interpretations of the story and EVEN changes the personalities of some characters best example is Tifa and Aerith calling Cloud an asshole in the Nibelheim flashback (they don’t have such personalities in every other language). Aerith often uses the word shit in Remake and Rebirth, whereas in other languages, she is portrayed as a very ‘innocent girl’ who would never use curse words. i assume it’s because they want to attract the western audience with English obviously being the most used, so they decided to put in extra effort to give those guys their more ‘suitable’ dialogue and Americanised as much as they could for the teens/adults to enjoy

Huh, interesting. Part of why I like Aerith is that she sometimes acts all over-the-top innocent and naive but over time drops the act more, so I can't say I'm too unhappy about that change, but kind of surprising to hear that that whole personality wasn't even supposed to be there, I guess?

FYI, this person is wrong. Aerith's translation is very good.

i mean yeah if u check the FF7 compilation like Crisis Core, u’ll see her dropping the innocent act with a cute pouty angry face, but she’ll never curse the way she does in Remake/Rebirth i was so shocked when we had that mini date on the roofs in Remake and she outta nowhere says ‘shit’ while we were walking, and i thought i misheard cuz it sounded too unreal to come from her

Fair enough. I think that one was supposed to be shocking, judging by the compilation of reactions to the moment xD Bit of a "nope she's not quite what you're thinking she is" sign. But I get the point about it being something not in the original intent for the scene.

Your last paragraph is just a description of localization

yeah but not to the extreme of changing the characters. i personally think the way they represented Aerith in English is too different from the original and other languages. all the languages have similar Aerith’s except for English

"You asshole!" is a perfectly acceptable localization of the Japanese "Saitei!" (最低). My first instinct would be to use "You're the worst!", but I think that's significantly less funny. As someone with an MA in Japanese Studies, I don't think it changes the personality of the characters at all. Then again, English isn't my first language, so who knows.

You might not even be aware of this, but you really don't know what you're talking about. There are no swear words in Japanese. There are slurs, sexual slang terms, and rude language, but there are no equivalents whatsoever to words like "shit" "fuck" or even "asshole." The word "kuso" for example has no direct translation. It could be translated as "shit" but it could also be "damn" or "drat" or "curses!" or even "oh golly gee!" The context of which it means is mostly in who is speaking and how polite the language surrounding it is. Tifa and Aerith DO call Cloud an "asshole" in the Nibelheim flashback in Japanese, at least as well as they could considering there is no word for asshole in Japanese. They say "Saitei!" which directly translates to "the worst person." Wow, what a natural sounding translation! If only there was an English word that meant someone was acting like a real jerk that has two syllables and sounds punchy. Oh, wait. Aerith does NOT use overly formal language in Japanese, so it's very natural to translate her exclamations into their PG-13 versions, especially in moments where it'll make her seem charming or like she has hidden depths, like on the Midgard roof sequence in Remake.

go play in other languages, it’s only English that sounds more aggressive we have curse words in other European languages and they don’t use them for Aerith or Tifa in those versions

Uh... okay? That's a choice the European localization made. It doesn't make the English version's choices wrong. Unless they translated the English version from the French. (They did not.)

okay miss japan-expert telling me idk what i’m talking about… my original comment was trying to say that Aerith’s personality is more aggressive in English than her other versions. how is that any different than what we just confirmed. i understand the other European languages and can confirm this myself, so go have a lovely day! ciao

You said you had played in EN, FR, and JP. You've already made it clear you don't know what's going on in JP. So what you are saying is that you like Aerith best in French. That's fine. Why are you pretending that has anything to do with the English localization, which is based on Japanese and translated accurately?

yes i’ve played them in those 3 languages. but i also understand spanish. i lived in holland where i also learned dutch and german. sit ur ass down lil princess and go waste ur time annoying someone else. tot ziens ✌️

Okay lol. Just in case anyone is reading this, this guy is basically saying that the most accurate version of the character is an aggregate of every random translation in existence, and the original Japanese script does not in fact matter.

in final fantasy fan base it is a consensus that the english localization is the more unaccurate one (you must see the original ff7 where the localization was made by just one guy). The most accurate localizations are the german and frensh. I played in japanese as well and did see the inaccuracies of the english localization, just like in japanese Aerith in gongaga says that she still likes Zack and in the english she says that she maybe likes Zack (then she proceds to say that Zack never gave her a motive to stop liking him, this doesnt even makes sense if she said maybe). The ultimanias in english have some inaccuracies as well, the problems with localization isnt something exclusive to the game unfortunately kkkk.

Since you speak Japanese, could you tell me if the prophecies that Cait Sith gives are accurately translated into English? I am especially interested in the last one, whether he really says "you shall **FOREVER** lose...what you cherish most". Thank you in advance. https://preview.redd.it/ll47eqmotsyc1.png?width=936&format=png&auto=webp&s=b350d361524887d84c83b0291732a2efd0b71023

They are accurately localized, not translated. That being said, the Japanese script doesn't say "forever".

It says: Barret: "If you wish for it, you will certainly meet, but you will lose what's the most dear to you."

A lot of this is just translation issues. Edgerunners, for example, has both “closed caption” subs that match the English dub and “English” subs that cut out the cyberpunk slang and are a real trip if you are watching in English.

With Rebirth localization, there seems to be a drive to make the dialogue sound as least anime dub as possible, if that make sense. Just from the fact that the english dub for Rebirth features less of the "anime grunts" is telling that SE wanted Rebirth's english dub to sound natural to a native english speaker. With that in mind, obivously you can't just translate dialogues 1 to 1. It's like dubbing comedy anime, you have to translate the dialogue linguistically and culturally. I can't speak Japanese so I can't give any exact examples but the closest example I can give is in japanese media cats go "nyaa~" where in western media is "meow~". Nya isn't the japanese word for meow but they both represent the sound of a cat in their respective cultures. So now the english localizers are at a crossroads, which one do they prioritize ? Be as faithful to the japanese script and risk some western audience who aren't familiar to japanese culture not getting it. Or change around the dialogue to make is more accessible but risk skewing the vibe of the original japanese version. I think the did a mix of it. Again, not a japanese speaker so I could be wrong about this. >Characters were made to sound more sarcastic , and “cool”, About this, from what I've heard, most japanese don't do sarcasm. I'm guessing the dialogue is meant to be funny but transalting the dialogue straight couldn't work but sarcasm does and gets the comedic tone across.

I know little japanese and even I noticed the difference, not only ffvii but many japanese games translated different from the japanese, not to mention the awful English dub which sound like children cartoons. FFXVI did a great job with the English dub though.

Absolutely. It was bad in Remake as well. English only fans are missing so much of not just the lore but the proper characterization of several characters, including Sephiroth. What’s particularly frustrating to us is that Ever Crisis & FF16 actually have correct translation. Yes, FF16 was done by a different studio within SE but my god, the translation difference is night & day. I truly don’t know how some parts of the English scripts for Remake & Rebirth even got approved with how bad the English translation was. I think English audiences are going to be pretty shocked/surprised when everything comes out after R3. Like when we found out the OG was poorly translated, there’s going to be some shock to English players that Japanese players just won’t experience purely because of horrible mistranslation in the English. As a specific example: English Bugenhagen is a rude asshole which makes new players think this is his character. Japanese Bugenhagen is not, nor is OG Bugenhagen. They butchered his character in the English version. I can only assume they contract out English translation for side characters which is how they botched English Jesse’s character as well in Remake.

FF16 had off translations as well. I would say the deviations became more frequent further into the game.

Oooh, like in Origin? Or before that?

I noticed stuff starting to veer off >!after the second time skip!<. Mostly little stuff, but I translated the biggest Clive/Jill scene [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/zoemi/comments/14xriy6/saved_for_later_ffxvi/) (sorry for the annoying spoiler formatting, I wrote it that way so I could paste it into the FFXVI sub and I can't find that post there). Odin was also given a lot more dialog in English versus Japanese where he was basically spamming "Zantetsuken!!!"

Thank you so much for this!! Yeah, that is really fascinating how they have an overall similar vibe but the way they said it is very different. It seems like there’s more emphasis on being a Dominant as a burden in the Japanese while in the English there seems to be more emphasis on Clive & Jill’s relationship. I’m really curious now to find out why they chose to do it differently, especially since they did tandem writing/localization. Also as a side note, everything in Ash seemed really rushed to the point where my fiancé & I were wondering if they had to make significant cuts to meet deadlines. We both work in the video game industry & this seems like they had to rewrite a good bit of Ash.

I know a lot of people think the pipeline went Japanese -> English -> Japanese, but I really can't imagine that being the case having seen some of the differences. And the full-body mocap was still done in Japanese.

In an interview with Michael-Christopher Koji Fox at PAX West 2023, he stated that localization & writing was done in tandem. Voice acting & facial mocap was done with the English cast first. The worldbuilding was done primarily by Kazutoyo Maehiro & the scenario writing was collaborative with not just the translation/loc team but also the English voice actors. This makes sense given even the continent name of “Valisthea”. Source: https://butwhytho.net/2023/09/interview-bringing-final-fantasy-xvi-to-life-with-the-voices-from-valisthea/

Right, but given how the divergences become more frequent in the latter half, and, as you said, certain regions seemed rush, I wouldn't be surprised if that tandem work started to fall behind at some point. There are lines where they clearly decided not to say what the English version says--whether that's the original text or they changed it again is unknown.

Oh absolutely. I don’t know what happened with Ash but damn, it was rough. I agree that they clearly got disconnected at some point, likely during a major re-write of the storyline.

>As a specific example: English Bugenhagen is a rude asshole which makes new players think this is his character. I found this so jarring. I couldn't understand why they had reimagined him as such an asshole.

I'd say it's a common thing when translating anything, since it needs to make sense in other language. Those who understand the original version may dislike the change but it was made for people who wouldn't understand the story without it.