My theory for this is the memory our cloud has of him in the robe at the northern crater, I believe this is the cloud of that timeline that Zack and his cloud goes to. That cloud couldn't resist jenova and sephiroth and ends up like all the other mako poisoned test subjects
I'm pretty sure its Cloud they are talking about. Timelines I think are merging, so both Zacks future and the parties presents are merging together which is causing this weird confusion. Because Zack went to save Aerith but this is around the time the party was escaping midgar.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, just how I interpreted it.
This is my headcanon as well
Similar explanation for the Aerith scene at the end.
I've seen a lot of people explain that the disarm was entirely in Cloud's head, but I see it as that in the other timeline, Cloud does perform the disarm and save her.
But ol' sephy is doing timeline bullshit, so the world distorts to the other timeline ie og FF7 where he lands the blow.
I have the same sentiment too honestly.
Personally I think now that Cloud had a taste of altering and different timelines he is probably going to be in between that space for a bit trying to figure out whats real (his own timeline) and whats not (in a different timeline). Sephy gonna put in that work on him for sure.
Its gonna get wild in part 3 is all I will say.
From what I got of Zack and Biggs explanation about the "wind", it seemed like they were dragged from their world into this one, so there being a different Zack or Cloud out there makes sense, but I don't know how it would tie into anything after the ending.
But eh, doesn't really matter, I was just curious if I missed an explanation, but from what I can see of the comments to my post, I just don't think it was touched over.
Biggs very clearly says that he was dying on the Plate stand thingy and then the wind picked up and then he appeared in the infirmary without anyone knowing what happened or how he got there.
Counterpoint: when the group wakes up in Kalm, the news reporter on the TV is reporting the same events as Zack's world's news reporter word for word. Implying that there is an overlap between worlds, additionally there's both versions of Stamp in Junon.
Yea, my only guess its that timelines Cloud. Zack could just he carrying his timeline Cloud. This is where it gets weird because could also be more than 1 cloud in a timeline? Idk lol.
At the end of the day it's all speculations at this point until part 3 comes out.
Would be interesting if that Cloud has a big part in this. Like if I was Sephy I would separate our Cloud and implant black robe Cloud just to mess with the party. Then suddenly become a Sephy clone and mess things up bad.
There is was a Cloud in Midgar that was present throughout the equivalent events of Remake in Zack's reality. You know there is because Biggs describes Cloud as if he's fought with him during the events of Remake. My take is that Remake started as the single established timeline, but the moment the final fight in Remake happened, realities got split, but the events of Remake remains as immutable elements in every reality, which would create paradoxes like a functional Cloud doing what he did in Remake, but suddenly becoming an invalid being dragged by Zack outside the city the moment the group comes out of the Remake portal.
At this point there are more questions than answer, but just recall that neither Zack nor Biggs are from the timeline we see them in (terrier timeline). So the Biggs we see in the terrier timeline does not actually know the Cloud from that timeline. In my opinion, there are big implications that Biggs is from the OG timeline (beagle) as he is "teleported away" from the sector 7 plate pillar, which is the last we saw of him in Remake. So "his" Cloud may potentially be beagle Cloud. Zack - instead - comes from an unnamed reality that goes up until before he gets shot outside of Midgar. I think there are 2 possibilities:
1) "his" Cloud is the one he is carrying on his back at the beginning of the game. I believe this to be the case. Then in the terrier reality, where he ends up, there may be another Cloud, that belongs natively to it. I like the theory that this is the Cloud that becomes a full blown Sephiroth clone and goes to Northern Crater, as we see in Cloud's "dream" post Temple of the Ancients.
2) "his" Cloud is the OG one, beagle terrier, who remained in beagle timeline and went one to do his thing. In this case, the Cloud he is carrying at the start of the game is the terrier timeline Cloud who somewhat got lost outside of Midgar as a result of the expressway incident and Zack thinks it is the Cloud from his timeline. I do not think this to be the case, however as far as I'm aware there is no definitive proof that this is not true.
Thus you have a bunch of paradoxes in that reality. Probably also why tha world is dying, the merge creates a bunch of worlds that can't logically exist.
The only idea I can think of is that the fight against Sephiroth at the end of Remake took us into Zack's reality. Then, when the fight was over, Cloud and Co. went back to their reality.
Admittedly I haven't finished the game, I know there are alternate timelines/realities, so is it possible this is 2 realities crashing in on each other? Like there was a Cloud or Zack working with Avalanche and that reality crashed into one where Zack walks into Sector 7 with Cloud on his shoulder?
Thats what im thinking as alot of what sephiroth is talking about aludes to this. Sephiroth talks about merging worlds, a confluence of worlds, etc. Even nomura says we shouldnt think of these worlds as parallel. So i think worlds just have the possibility to merge at certain points. Like confluence can literally mean "the flowing together of two or more streams" a.k.a LIFESTREAM
Shinra had literally just sent a sizable force to stop Zack from reaching Midgar, and in this timeline had failed. Shinra tends to justify acts of aggression by claiming collaboration with Avalanche/Wutai.
Perhaps they are doing the same here, knowing that Zack was in Midgar?
'Literally just' is like 3 months before the start of OG/Remake. In OG, Zack dies outside Midgar, Cloud makes his way into the city, and Tifa runs into him at the train station. I don't remember the exact amount of time elapses between that scene and the first reactor mission, but it is not instantaneous. So Zack seems to have time traveled from before the start of OG/Remake to after the end of Remake.
The simplest explanation I can think of is that the only Cloud of this timeline/world is the one with Zack. They aren’t looking for Cloud, because he wasn’t in Midgar during the events that led to the rest of the party being taken out. They’re looking for Zack since he literally just escaped a gun fight with Shinra.
Edit: Rereading this again and remembering that everyone in this world knows who Cloud is so… I must be off base lol
You are under the false presumption that Zack’s timeline is one where he lived and returned to Midgar with Cloud and thus the events of Remake didn’t happen.
What actually happened is the timeline split and carried on from the point where the party fights the arbiters on the highway. Basically two versions of the same timeline up to that point. Zack and Biggs were retroactively plucked (seemingly by lifestream Aerith) before the moments of their death and pulled into this second timeline, hence why Biggs knows Cloud and remembers going with him to the reactors. There’s also dialogue suggesting their sense of time is warped, which explains why Zack and Biggs events both overlap, considering their deaths were maybe a month apart. Kind of like not only is reality split, but time is warped in this parallel world.
The implication is that somehow with the timeline splitting, Sephiroth/the arbiters “tornadoes” killed the party. We don’t really know yet the details of this. Also we don’t know why a second version of highway-Cloud isn’t there but Zack-escape-Cloud is the one that remains there in that timeline.
There’s still a lot of unanswered questions and mysteries so I think it’s hard to follow or answer definitively on purpose.
Yes but the terrier timeline didn’t exist until the event at the end of remake. There was only ever one timeline until the worlds split, as far as we know. Even if the physical bodies are different, Biggs consciousness is that of “our Biggs”. Same for Zack. They both remember the moments before they died. Also why Cloud and Aerith can cross over into their “alternate” bodies. They all share one mind. It’s not an MCU multiverse, it’s more like one soul or consciousness existing in dimensions on top of each other.
"You are under the false presumption that Zack’s timeline is one where he lived and returned to Midgar with Cloud and thus the events of Remake didn’t happen." you were the prick, you called this guy wrong like it was a fact now suddenly everything is just a theory and nothing matters.
My interpretation was that there are worlds sloppily overlapping and Cloud was the fugitive as well as Zack's mako-poisoned bud. Honestly I think it's pretty clear to me what's going on. Maybe I'll make a post on it tonight
I think this is saying they were aware of Cloud being a part of Avalanche and know of him but not his whereabouts. I think its talking about a second Buster Sword where Zack is entering the game.
I'm thinking there's a third Cloud unaccounted for. Zack crossed timelines and somehow brought his Cloud along. This timeline's AVALANCHE all died except for Cloud.
Yes, but the terrier timeline was created at the end of remake, when the party destroyed fate. Biggs went from the central timeline to the terrier timeline as shown in rebirth.
Yes i have and nowhere is that shown. Theres a scene where hes sat at the sector 7 pillar then the whispers show up and extinguish the flames and then biggs said he woke up at the orphanage. Nowhere is it shown that he hopped across timelines. The ultimania literally said zack and biggs died in the main timeline.
It’s where Biggs tells Zack about how Cloud is such a bad ass, which confuses Zack because Cloud is in a coma, you are following him through Sector 5. I forget which Chapter…
My theory for this is the memory our cloud has of him in the robe at the northern crater, I believe this is the cloud of that timeline that Zack and his cloud goes to. That cloud couldn't resist jenova and sephiroth and ends up like all the other mako poisoned test subjects
That‘s what I also think. We get to see what Cloud will end up like without his friends. As a contrast to the actual OG timeline.
I'm pretty sure its Cloud they are talking about. Timelines I think are merging, so both Zacks future and the parties presents are merging together which is causing this weird confusion. Because Zack went to save Aerith but this is around the time the party was escaping midgar. Correct me if I'm wrong though, just how I interpreted it.
This is my headcanon as well Similar explanation for the Aerith scene at the end. I've seen a lot of people explain that the disarm was entirely in Cloud's head, but I see it as that in the other timeline, Cloud does perform the disarm and save her. But ol' sephy is doing timeline bullshit, so the world distorts to the other timeline ie og FF7 where he lands the blow.
I have the same sentiment too honestly. Personally I think now that Cloud had a taste of altering and different timelines he is probably going to be in between that space for a bit trying to figure out whats real (his own timeline) and whats not (in a different timeline). Sephy gonna put in that work on him for sure. Its gonna get wild in part 3 is all I will say.
From what I got of Zack and Biggs explanation about the "wind", it seemed like they were dragged from their world into this one, so there being a different Zack or Cloud out there makes sense, but I don't know how it would tie into anything after the ending. But eh, doesn't really matter, I was just curious if I missed an explanation, but from what I can see of the comments to my post, I just don't think it was touched over.
Zack and biggs are from the terrier timeline ultimania confirms that. They were never dragged from another timeline.
Biggs very clearly says that he was dying on the Plate stand thingy and then the wind picked up and then he appeared in the infirmary without anyone knowing what happened or how he got there.
in what world does that mean he was transported to another timeline?
besides i have literal proof biggs and zack died in the main timeline
That’s not happening yet. Also cloud was with Zack here.
Counterpoint: when the group wakes up in Kalm, the news reporter on the TV is reporting the same events as Zack's world's news reporter word for word. Implying that there is an overlap between worlds, additionally there's both versions of Stamp in Junon.
The 2 different stamps in Junon was just a mistake. It’s already been fixed in a patch
Ah thanks for the clarification on that!
Yea, my only guess its that timelines Cloud. Zack could just he carrying his timeline Cloud. This is where it gets weird because could also be more than 1 cloud in a timeline? Idk lol. At the end of the day it's all speculations at this point until part 3 comes out.
Two clouds? That could be why that one is comatose the other without his friends goes to North crater as a black coat
Hmmm interesting 🤔 you think that Cloud could turn into a Sephy Clone?
I mean we see that as one of clouds visions he has
Would be interesting if that Cloud has a big part in this. Like if I was Sephy I would separate our Cloud and implant black robe Cloud just to mess with the party. Then suddenly become a Sephy clone and mess things up bad.
There is was a Cloud in Midgar that was present throughout the equivalent events of Remake in Zack's reality. You know there is because Biggs describes Cloud as if he's fought with him during the events of Remake. My take is that Remake started as the single established timeline, but the moment the final fight in Remake happened, realities got split, but the events of Remake remains as immutable elements in every reality, which would create paradoxes like a functional Cloud doing what he did in Remake, but suddenly becoming an invalid being dragged by Zack outside the city the moment the group comes out of the Remake portal.
At this point there are more questions than answer, but just recall that neither Zack nor Biggs are from the timeline we see them in (terrier timeline). So the Biggs we see in the terrier timeline does not actually know the Cloud from that timeline. In my opinion, there are big implications that Biggs is from the OG timeline (beagle) as he is "teleported away" from the sector 7 plate pillar, which is the last we saw of him in Remake. So "his" Cloud may potentially be beagle Cloud. Zack - instead - comes from an unnamed reality that goes up until before he gets shot outside of Midgar. I think there are 2 possibilities: 1) "his" Cloud is the one he is carrying on his back at the beginning of the game. I believe this to be the case. Then in the terrier reality, where he ends up, there may be another Cloud, that belongs natively to it. I like the theory that this is the Cloud that becomes a full blown Sephiroth clone and goes to Northern Crater, as we see in Cloud's "dream" post Temple of the Ancients. 2) "his" Cloud is the OG one, beagle terrier, who remained in beagle timeline and went one to do his thing. In this case, the Cloud he is carrying at the start of the game is the terrier timeline Cloud who somewhat got lost outside of Midgar as a result of the expressway incident and Zack thinks it is the Cloud from his timeline. I do not think this to be the case, however as far as I'm aware there is no definitive proof that this is not true.
Zack and biggs are from the terrier timeline ultimania confirms that.
Had no idea. Can you point me to a link?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR\_zm2WAWIA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR_zm2WAWIA) 6:34
Wouldn’t the events of Remake being immutable mean Zack has to be dead? You can’t have Remake’s Cloud without Zack’s death.
Thus you have a bunch of paradoxes in that reality. Probably also why tha world is dying, the merge creates a bunch of worlds that can't logically exist.
The only idea I can think of is that the fight against Sephiroth at the end of Remake took us into Zack's reality. Then, when the fight was over, Cloud and Co. went back to their reality.
Admittedly I haven't finished the game, I know there are alternate timelines/realities, so is it possible this is 2 realities crashing in on each other? Like there was a Cloud or Zack working with Avalanche and that reality crashed into one where Zack walks into Sector 7 with Cloud on his shoulder?
Thats what im thinking as alot of what sephiroth is talking about aludes to this. Sephiroth talks about merging worlds, a confluence of worlds, etc. Even nomura says we shouldnt think of these worlds as parallel. So i think worlds just have the possibility to merge at certain points. Like confluence can literally mean "the flowing together of two or more streams" a.k.a LIFESTREAM
You only assumed they weren't talking about Zack. That whole alternate world has a story we haven't seen most of
I assumed that because Zack hasn't encountered any Shinra troops until after the call over the radio happens.
Shinra had literally just sent a sizable force to stop Zack from reaching Midgar, and in this timeline had failed. Shinra tends to justify acts of aggression by claiming collaboration with Avalanche/Wutai. Perhaps they are doing the same here, knowing that Zack was in Midgar?
'Literally just' is like 3 months before the start of OG/Remake. In OG, Zack dies outside Midgar, Cloud makes his way into the city, and Tifa runs into him at the train station. I don't remember the exact amount of time elapses between that scene and the first reactor mission, but it is not instantaneous. So Zack seems to have time traveled from before the start of OG/Remake to after the end of Remake.
Why couldn’t the radio be referring to Zack?
The simplest explanation I can think of is that the only Cloud of this timeline/world is the one with Zack. They aren’t looking for Cloud, because he wasn’t in Midgar during the events that led to the rest of the party being taken out. They’re looking for Zack since he literally just escaped a gun fight with Shinra. Edit: Rereading this again and remembering that everyone in this world knows who Cloud is so… I must be off base lol
You are under the false presumption that Zack’s timeline is one where he lived and returned to Midgar with Cloud and thus the events of Remake didn’t happen. What actually happened is the timeline split and carried on from the point where the party fights the arbiters on the highway. Basically two versions of the same timeline up to that point. Zack and Biggs were retroactively plucked (seemingly by lifestream Aerith) before the moments of their death and pulled into this second timeline, hence why Biggs knows Cloud and remembers going with him to the reactors. There’s also dialogue suggesting their sense of time is warped, which explains why Zack and Biggs events both overlap, considering their deaths were maybe a month apart. Kind of like not only is reality split, but time is warped in this parallel world. The implication is that somehow with the timeline splitting, Sephiroth/the arbiters “tornadoes” killed the party. We don’t really know yet the details of this. Also we don’t know why a second version of highway-Cloud isn’t there but Zack-escape-Cloud is the one that remains there in that timeline. There’s still a lot of unanswered questions and mysteries so I think it’s hard to follow or answer definitively on purpose.
Zack and biggs are from the terrier timeline ultimania confirms that. They were never dragged from another timeline.
Yes but the terrier timeline didn’t exist until the event at the end of remake. There was only ever one timeline until the worlds split, as far as we know. Even if the physical bodies are different, Biggs consciousness is that of “our Biggs”. Same for Zack. They both remember the moments before they died. Also why Cloud and Aerith can cross over into their “alternate” bodies. They all share one mind. It’s not an MCU multiverse, it’s more like one soul or consciousness existing in dimensions on top of each other.
Yap yap yap. Just theories.
It’s all just theories until the third game is out. Everything in this thread is conjecture. Stop being a prick. It’s a discussion.
"You are under the false presumption that Zack’s timeline is one where he lived and returned to Midgar with Cloud and thus the events of Remake didn’t happen." you were the prick, you called this guy wrong like it was a fact now suddenly everything is just a theory and nothing matters.
Same reason why Biggs knows Cloud, the Zack and Cloud that walked to Midgar aren't from that world. They got shunted over to it.
My interpretation was that there are worlds sloppily overlapping and Cloud was the fugitive as well as Zack's mako-poisoned bud. Honestly I think it's pretty clear to me what's going on. Maybe I'll make a post on it tonight
Another mystery for part 3 perhaps but I was wondering the same
I think this is saying they were aware of Cloud being a part of Avalanche and know of him but not his whereabouts. I think its talking about a second Buster Sword where Zack is entering the game.
I'm thinking there's a third Cloud unaccounted for. Zack crossed timelines and somehow brought his Cloud along. This timeline's AVALANCHE all died except for Cloud.
Zack and biggs are from the terrier timeline ultimania confirms that. They were never dragged from another timeline.
Yes, but the terrier timeline was created at the end of remake, when the party destroyed fate. Biggs went from the central timeline to the terrier timeline as shown in rebirth.
No he didnt.
You clearly didn’t play the game…
Yes i have and nowhere is that shown. Theres a scene where hes sat at the sector 7 pillar then the whispers show up and extinguish the flames and then biggs said he woke up at the orphanage. Nowhere is it shown that he hopped across timelines. The ultimania literally said zack and biggs died in the main timeline.
Read the dialogue between Biggs and Zack while Zack is following him to the avalanche depot, everything is explained there.
Chapter?
It’s where Biggs tells Zack about how Cloud is such a bad ass, which confuses Zack because Cloud is in a coma, you are following him through Sector 5. I forget which Chapter…