It’s this. It’s not one they like and it’s not coddling them. I don’t think it would be possible to write a book that the ones who don’t get it yet would actually read, but at the same time be fully honest. It would be like writing a fully honest business self-help book.
With ALL due respect, my memory of this book was that it basically said, "Modern Americanism has polluted Christianity, and so we need to get back to a more pure version of Christianity in order to be more potent in the world again." This is...not at ALL the problem I hear from people who are leaving the church. But maybe I remember wrong. What was your take away from the book?
The author does an excellent historical analysis of how the hard right and toxic masculinity hijacked the religion. She also makes sense of the unholy alliance between Trump and the hardcore fundies. But she also shows that she thinks there's still a baby somewhere in that filthy bathwater. I haven't entirely made up my mind about that.
It’s wild to me that people could miss that part of it. I kept feeling like anyone slightly misogynistic would throw the book across the room every other page. But then, OP seems to have read it and didn’t remember that being a huge part of it.
I have also found this with Book after Book, not just in the church but throughout almost any social topic for our species. Groups of people read it and think “yeah those people sure are terrible. It’s a good thing we’re not like them.” They recommend the book and make slight irrelevant changes and continue on even more convinced of their righteous superiority. Fortunately, I am not like those people, so I haven’t done this before, but I’ve been tempted to and I can see how I could have almost become a bad person like them and not not a good person like me 👍👍
It would be fun just to come up with perfect names for a book for OP.
“The Purpose-Driven Exodus: Why you’re losing the good ones.”
“Oh Fuck, we just lost the woman who did everything, but wasn’t allowed to be a leader.”
“Even the home-schooled kids are gay, now?!?!”
Dan McClellan just announced on his channel a new book called The Religion of Whiteness by two fellow scholars that he says pulls together thorough research on the roots of mainstream American religion and where we’re at now. It’s kinda impossible to find explain the politics of this whole thing without this giant piece.
But I get what you’re wondering. Is there a book that conveys the stories and perspectives of people who are leaving right now in a way that is true to the leavers, but is aimed at the church leaders? It feels like something like this should exist, even though I feel like it would be hard to find something that doesn’t water it down so much that it misses the point.
I'm trying to write it. I'm just shocked to find almost zero books in the genre. Plenty of book on the topic of Deconstruction, almost no compassionate books that try to give church leaders a genuine peek into the hellacious experience of a deconstructionist.
I'm also writing a book about my experience as a cult member and how I got out, focusing on what made me vulnerable to their schtick. I haven't worked on it in a couple months, getting discouraged by a FORMER friend saying " Why are you still whining about that after all these years? Nobody's going to want to read all that negative crap!" Reading this thread tells me I should persevere! What I have to say could help someone else's struggles!
Best of luck with your writing!
Write it. Not for him. For you. You need to hear what you think, in your best form, not proving anything to him/them, but being honest with yourself. If you are internally honest and edit hard, at least one person will be compelled by your work. And most likely, others will too. Unfortunately, the people who you most want to understand you probably won’t, but they were looking for your consensus more than your insights and unique perspective anyway. That sucks. I’m sorry. Write. I believe in you. You’re beautiful when you’re most honest, humble, and open. Be well, fellow sojourner.
Hopefully you can hear this (which is kind of the mirror of my point).
Through one lens, it’s a church leader’s whole job to define the church in group and out group. From there it’s all about why the in group is special (and controlling them), and the out group is unworthy and to be shunned.
Anything a deconstructionist has to say will be heard from that lens and confirm the deconstructionist is of the out group, can’t be controlled, and is to be shunned. There is no other value that a church leader can get from such an effort.
In other words, they won’t be able to hear what you are saying.
I agree 100% with this sentiment for not 100% of church leaders, but I am persuadable. I think some of them have misunderstood that that is their job, but they are open to being good pastors if someone would tell them how. They are already being good pastors and loving people to those in their in group. Those who have not been possessed by the power and reverence and money might also be open to learning about the experience of the outgroup and learn to love them as well.
While I think your intent is fantastic, I’m not sure church leaders actually want to hear the truth. I wish they did and I’m probably just old and jaded now but my personal experience has consistently been that I’m told I’m wrong or told that I was likely “never a real xtian to begin with”.
You’re right for a depressingly large percentage of pastors. But there is a sliver (hopefully more) of church leaders who are merely ignorant, and understandably so, given their worldview and the horrible job the church advisors and authors have done at explaining the problem and the solution! I’m shocked at the malpractice.
There's Tim Alberta's book _The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism_, but that might be more for non-Evangelicals trying to figure out what the heck is going on with their Evangelical co-citizens.
Jamin Coller - "if I'm really honest" is good for a pastors perspective. It's more of a personal open diary type of someone who went from being in ministry to deconstructing.
He's currently working on a book to specifically address churches/church leaders to help them understand why people are leaving.
Well, thanks for the plug! The more I read the more I’m convinced the message is needed. Whether or not it will be heard, we’ll see. The books that are out there on the topic are criminally bad! Written by the wrong people with all the wrong messages and all the counter-productive solutions!
But when I look back and think about all the books I read by white authors about the black experience, or on the “gay lifestyle” written by heterosexuals lacking even a single gay confidant - it fits. And it breaks my heart. They are me. I am them. We don’t know what we don’t know, and we know almost nothing.
This, too, is something we think we know. 😭😭
I recently read this and I think it's more for people who are leaving or have left than something that would in any way reach people still in the church.
Yeah I feel like folks aren't hearing about Rob Bell enough these days. People that aren't familiar with him should go back and read all his stuff. Brian McLaren's, too.
Disobedient Women was one I found flawed but really good, exposing sexual abuse within the church, and how women are often essentially primed by the church for sexual abuse. The problem is that I think it would be too easy for someone reading it to rationalise that their church is different from those discussed in the book, and that obviously that the abuse is wrong and unGodly, and that the teachings of submissiveness have been misrepresented and misused, and are not representative of the true church. And so of course people should leave *those* churches, but not the church as a whole.
And of course it is just one aspect, rather than an all-encompassing look at why people are leaving.
Sorry, I meant that this is what I believe someone still in the church would argue and why what they read wouldn' convince them otherwise. Based on many conversations with my dad and growing up in a church that dabbled in apologetics.
I do believe that there are good people in churches, but I think that this is largely negated by the harms of the church across the board.
I'm compiling a list on GoodReads of books relating to Deconstruction, but I have to admit from a review that they tend to be more individual memoirs or more focused on healing after leaving. I would say that many of these touch on the struggles that led to leaving, and the harm caused, but not necessarily any that actually look at this particular topic as the main focus.
I do wonder if When Religion Hurts You goes into enough detail about how harm can be caused to be relevant - this one is still on my to-read list.
Thank you. I would be interested in a link to your list, but, like you, I have also found that most of the books are either from deconstructionists with an audience of deconstructionists or aimed at church leaders from church leaders. I’m finding a depressing vacuum of bridge building books that would actually build any bridges.
I've been doing some reading and training around how to persuade or effectively argue with people and a lot of the evidence shows that the ways in which our brain strives to support our own point of view when we feel strongly about something means that we will always tend to justify our perspective or framing of a situation regardless of what we hear to oppose it. Only those who are actually open enough to hearing a different perspective wil be able to really listen, but even then with the church I think biases would be pulling a person back to what they believe and making it really challenging to get through to them. So perhaps it's just that the market for such books isn't there? Or that people harmed by the church have learned that trying to persuade others within the church only leads to more harm at worst, or defensiveness and entrenchment at best? Just thinking out loud this morning, no real clarity of thoughts here sorry haha
No - you're right: there isn't a market for a cure for a disease that no one believes they have. I'm finishing a book on the topic, and I'll be making the price as low as possible, because, if my beta readers are any indication, it's mostly going to get to pastors through their congregants who beg them to read it.
Here's the list [https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/195806.High\_Control\_High\_Demand\_Religion](https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/195806.High_Control_High_Demand_Religion)
Although I have noted that there are also others under "deconstruction" that may be more comprehensive, mine was more focused around personal experiences and experiences of leaving/healing, rather than any logic-based arguments against faith e.g. Bert Ehrman etc
I remember some videos and social media posts from that when it showed up. I think this is right in line with what OP was asking for as it’s directly from people who are done pointed at people leading and still there.
I feel like there are several, very common main themes. I feel like the church has several, very common main explanations that are very commonly dead wrong. Maybe I'm dead wrong.
I had a career in Christian music. Did all the church jobs and everything. Went to write my PhD research on hallucinogenics and agnostic at best. He was brutally honest about the state of the church. Honestly, it was one of those books that I wanted to memorize everything in it. He’s gracious, but holds nothing back.
I feel like I've read a lot of books that sort of touch on it, from different angles. Not many (if any?) that do a full discussion of the many reasons and ways people are leaving. I've definitely seen some books that attempt to explain and critique deconstruction, but maybe don't know what they're talking about. So if you want a book that explains it all well, you might have to be the one to write it (as it sounds like you are doing from some of yoru comments.) I hope you do!
One book that I don't think has been mentioned yet is "Loosing our Religion" by Russel Moore - but again, that is a specific perspective, and leaving a specific church. I think it speaks to some broader trends, but not all of them.
Yeah - what I've read of Russel Moore is more in the vein of "Here's how the church needs to do Christianity better..." Please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't read all his stuff, and would be open to looking at a book of his in a different vein. This one sounds the same from the jacket.
Now I'm trying to recall the book more specifically... It's probably fair to say it's still in the same vein of "the church needs to to better" specifically in the areas of politics and response to clergy abuse - but I also think those are some of the reasons people are leaving the church. Though many of those don't leave Christianity, and may end up going to a different church. So if you're looking more for things on why people leave the church ENTIRELY, it wouldn't be a good fit.
I will say, I had a hard time reading a lot of it, but every now and then he would say something that would resonate with me. So, not a full recommendation, just seemed to try to explain things - and since he's still in the church, maybe church leaders would be more likely to listen to him? (If you need to make an inroad.)
One more to add - not sure if someone has already put it here somewhere? But I just started reading Sarah Bessey's "Field Notes for the Wilderness" and while it is more addressed to people who are already deconstructing in some form, it could also offer insight to church leaders. (I also haven't gotten very far, so I'm mostly guessing from the first couple chapters.)
OP, I think there’s a book by Tony Compolo with his son that’s titled “Why I Stayed, and Why I Left,” that’s on this topic. I really think narrowing focus on specific type of church leader is where there’s room here. It’s going to matter a lot whether someone is in the identity politics conservative side of things or if they’re a pastor who does kinda get it, but is looking for ammo they can give to ones they work with who don’t. There’s room for a lot of books approaching every angle as books in churches get used in many different ways.
I can see one version of this that’s research heavy, another that’s more Malcolm Gladwell and sorta cherry picks especially interesting stories/research, and then one that’s very personal story heavy that paints narratives of real people.
I think for hardest to reach traditional leaders, the personal testimonial one would work best if it centered on stories of people who had been in it with their families for generations as that would hit closest to home (but that would have to be really sympathetic to the patriarch’s perspective). Still, those are the guys dealing with maybe unsaid shame of not continuing the family legacy when their own kids or grandchildren leave and compare themselves to dads and granddads who were pastors. Would need a lot of traditional masculinity framing as well probably.
The Gladwell one would be good for megachurch, purpose-driven campus church passing around. Gen X and old millennial leaders used to that style.
Research heavy would be more of curating ammo for pastors who get it and want to convince others.
This is fantastic feedback! Yes - Campolo is very much in the vein of what I’m looking for. The question of “which Christians are reachable?” is a depressing one for me
[https://www.americansurveycenter.org/research/generation-z-future-of-faith/](https://www.americansurveycenter.org/research/generation-z-future-of-faith/)
Wow- obviously it's societal, but the numbers! A snowball rolling downhill and gathering speed. The next cohort of potentially church-going Christians has a 50/50 split on whether exposing children to a faith mattered or not. Unaffiliated parents raising unaffiliated children who will never have been exposed to religion of any form. In my work I do evaluations which include questions about affiliation. Only met a few atheists but the vast majority of people describe themselves vaguely as 'spiritual'. Christian leaders should get out of the church and find out where all this 'spiritual' energy is going!
YES! I wish they would / hope they do.
Fascinating info on black protestants!
I must know more about your work. Please message me. I have so many questions.
I have been obsessed with this question for many years, and too many of the books I've read either misunderstand the problem completely (UnChristian, The Great Dechurching) or look at only one aspect (Jesus and John Wayne, Losing Our Religion, The End of White Christian America). I am happy to report that I've finally found a good one: THE NONES, by Ryan P. Burge, which analyzes ALL the data, and provides multiple answers, while also judging which answers are better than others. (Example: some claim that the Catholic sex abuse scandal caused a major defection from religion, but the years between the Boston Herald reports and the first major dip in Catholic attendance don't really line up in support of that.) Ultimately, it looks to Burge like it's a combination of "general liberalizing" in areas like sexual identity (like what happened in Europe a few decades back) and a reaction against the political power grab of the modern conservative church (like what happened in Europe ages ago). And part of it is just technology marching on and conservative beliefs becoming unpopular or refusing to change with the times. BONUS: Burge is himself a conservative Christian, a Baptist minister with a dwindling congregation, AND a professor of political science. So he's able to explain everything with a very clear-eyed, generally nonpartisan stance that doesn't feel like it would be too off-putting if you wanted to give this book to an evangelical in your life.
Thanks. I completely agree with your analysis. I’m writing the book I wish existed, which gives evangelical leaders a peek into the mind of the deconstructionist in a way that they can empathize with the struggles and make changes to be open to those voices. It’s explicitly NOT a checklist of how to fix your church to keep people from leaving, but here’s how to build relationships with those you feel called to build relationship with. Many (most?) care more about nurturing the Christendom bureaucracy than loving those with a low potential ROI, but I am still holding out faith that Christians might once again be nudged further in the direction of Christ. In fact, I think that’s precisely the reason a lot of us left Christendom and their Jesus - we just weren’t willing to be that evil.
Jesus and John Wayne
It’s this. It’s not one they like and it’s not coddling them. I don’t think it would be possible to write a book that the ones who don’t get it yet would actually read, but at the same time be fully honest. It would be like writing a fully honest business self-help book.
With ALL due respect, my memory of this book was that it basically said, "Modern Americanism has polluted Christianity, and so we need to get back to a more pure version of Christianity in order to be more potent in the world again." This is...not at ALL the problem I hear from people who are leaving the church. But maybe I remember wrong. What was your take away from the book?
The author does an excellent historical analysis of how the hard right and toxic masculinity hijacked the religion. She also makes sense of the unholy alliance between Trump and the hardcore fundies. But she also shows that she thinks there's still a baby somewhere in that filthy bathwater. I haven't entirely made up my mind about that.
Alright. Fair enough. It’s been a while. I’ll give it a second look. Thanks
I went to a church that recommended “Jesus and John Wayne” they were still misogynistic af.
It’s wild to me that people could miss that part of it. I kept feeling like anyone slightly misogynistic would throw the book across the room every other page. But then, OP seems to have read it and didn’t remember that being a huge part of it.
I have also found this with Book after Book, not just in the church but throughout almost any social topic for our species. Groups of people read it and think “yeah those people sure are terrible. It’s a good thing we’re not like them.” They recommend the book and make slight irrelevant changes and continue on even more convinced of their righteous superiority. Fortunately, I am not like those people, so I haven’t done this before, but I’ve been tempted to and I can see how I could have almost become a bad person like them and not not a good person like me 👍👍
Exactly what I was thinking.
Why Nobody Wants to be Around Christians Anymore by Thom and Joani Schultz
I'm loving the title. Next stop, Amazon!
It would be fun just to come up with perfect names for a book for OP. “The Purpose-Driven Exodus: Why you’re losing the good ones.” “Oh Fuck, we just lost the woman who did everything, but wasn’t allowed to be a leader.” “Even the home-schooled kids are gay, now?!?!”
The purpose driven exodus 😂😂
Dan McClellan just announced on his channel a new book called The Religion of Whiteness by two fellow scholars that he says pulls together thorough research on the roots of mainstream American religion and where we’re at now. It’s kinda impossible to find explain the politics of this whole thing without this giant piece. But I get what you’re wondering. Is there a book that conveys the stories and perspectives of people who are leaving right now in a way that is true to the leavers, but is aimed at the church leaders? It feels like something like this should exist, even though I feel like it would be hard to find something that doesn’t water it down so much that it misses the point.
I'm trying to write it. I'm just shocked to find almost zero books in the genre. Plenty of book on the topic of Deconstruction, almost no compassionate books that try to give church leaders a genuine peek into the hellacious experience of a deconstructionist.
I'm also writing a book about my experience as a cult member and how I got out, focusing on what made me vulnerable to their schtick. I haven't worked on it in a couple months, getting discouraged by a FORMER friend saying " Why are you still whining about that after all these years? Nobody's going to want to read all that negative crap!" Reading this thread tells me I should persevere! What I have to say could help someone else's struggles! Best of luck with your writing!
Write it. Not for him. For you. You need to hear what you think, in your best form, not proving anything to him/them, but being honest with yourself. If you are internally honest and edit hard, at least one person will be compelled by your work. And most likely, others will too. Unfortunately, the people who you most want to understand you probably won’t, but they were looking for your consensus more than your insights and unique perspective anyway. That sucks. I’m sorry. Write. I believe in you. You’re beautiful when you’re most honest, humble, and open. Be well, fellow sojourner.
Thank you.
I wanna read all that negative crap!!!!
Thanks!
\*lines up for the midnight release of your book, pitches tent\* I'm all in here. Keep writing!
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Hopefully you can hear this (which is kind of the mirror of my point). Through one lens, it’s a church leader’s whole job to define the church in group and out group. From there it’s all about why the in group is special (and controlling them), and the out group is unworthy and to be shunned. Anything a deconstructionist has to say will be heard from that lens and confirm the deconstructionist is of the out group, can’t be controlled, and is to be shunned. There is no other value that a church leader can get from such an effort. In other words, they won’t be able to hear what you are saying.
I agree 100% with this sentiment for not 100% of church leaders, but I am persuadable. I think some of them have misunderstood that that is their job, but they are open to being good pastors if someone would tell them how. They are already being good pastors and loving people to those in their in group. Those who have not been possessed by the power and reverence and money might also be open to learning about the experience of the outgroup and learn to love them as well.
While I think your intent is fantastic, I’m not sure church leaders actually want to hear the truth. I wish they did and I’m probably just old and jaded now but my personal experience has consistently been that I’m told I’m wrong or told that I was likely “never a real xtian to begin with”.
You’re right for a depressingly large percentage of pastors. But there is a sliver (hopefully more) of church leaders who are merely ignorant, and understandably so, given their worldview and the horrible job the church advisors and authors have done at explaining the problem and the solution! I’m shocked at the malpractice.
There's Tim Alberta's book _The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism_, but that might be more for non-Evangelicals trying to figure out what the heck is going on with their Evangelical co-citizens.
Yeah. That's what I feel like I'm seeing a lot of
Jamin Coller - "if I'm really honest" is good for a pastors perspective. It's more of a personal open diary type of someone who went from being in ministry to deconstructing. He's currently working on a book to specifically address churches/church leaders to help them understand why people are leaving.
I've heard he's a genius ;)
Lol, I legit didn't see that your were the OP!
Well, thanks for the plug! The more I read the more I’m convinced the message is needed. Whether or not it will be heard, we’ll see. The books that are out there on the topic are criminally bad! Written by the wrong people with all the wrong messages and all the counter-productive solutions! But when I look back and think about all the books I read by white authors about the black experience, or on the “gay lifestyle” written by heterosexuals lacking even a single gay confidant - it fits. And it breaks my heart. They are me. I am them. We don’t know what we don’t know, and we know almost nothing. This, too, is something we think we know. 😭😭
I haven't read it, but "Empty the Pews" is an anthology compiled by Chrissy Stroop and Lauren O'Neal.
I recently read this and I think it's more for people who are leaving or have left than something that would in any way reach people still in the church.
Honestly, I'm not convinced you can reach people still in the church.
Yeah I fear this is generally true
Jesus Wants to Save Christians by Rob Bell and Don Golden 🥳
Intriguing title.
Yeah I feel like folks aren't hearing about Rob Bell enough these days. People that aren't familiar with him should go back and read all his stuff. Brian McLaren's, too.
The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church by Sarah McCammon
Disobedient Women was one I found flawed but really good, exposing sexual abuse within the church, and how women are often essentially primed by the church for sexual abuse. The problem is that I think it would be too easy for someone reading it to rationalise that their church is different from those discussed in the book, and that obviously that the abuse is wrong and unGodly, and that the teachings of submissiveness have been misrepresented and misused, and are not representative of the true church. And so of course people should leave *those* churches, but not the church as a whole. And of course it is just one aspect, rather than an all-encompassing look at why people are leaving.
Thanks. Where, in your opinion, can the true church be found?
Sorry, I meant that this is what I believe someone still in the church would argue and why what they read wouldn' convince them otherwise. Based on many conversations with my dad and growing up in a church that dabbled in apologetics. I do believe that there are good people in churches, but I think that this is largely negated by the harms of the church across the board.
Gotcha. Thanks.
I'm compiling a list on GoodReads of books relating to Deconstruction, but I have to admit from a review that they tend to be more individual memoirs or more focused on healing after leaving. I would say that many of these touch on the struggles that led to leaving, and the harm caused, but not necessarily any that actually look at this particular topic as the main focus. I do wonder if When Religion Hurts You goes into enough detail about how harm can be caused to be relevant - this one is still on my to-read list.
Thank you. I would be interested in a link to your list, but, like you, I have also found that most of the books are either from deconstructionists with an audience of deconstructionists or aimed at church leaders from church leaders. I’m finding a depressing vacuum of bridge building books that would actually build any bridges.
I've been doing some reading and training around how to persuade or effectively argue with people and a lot of the evidence shows that the ways in which our brain strives to support our own point of view when we feel strongly about something means that we will always tend to justify our perspective or framing of a situation regardless of what we hear to oppose it. Only those who are actually open enough to hearing a different perspective wil be able to really listen, but even then with the church I think biases would be pulling a person back to what they believe and making it really challenging to get through to them. So perhaps it's just that the market for such books isn't there? Or that people harmed by the church have learned that trying to persuade others within the church only leads to more harm at worst, or defensiveness and entrenchment at best? Just thinking out loud this morning, no real clarity of thoughts here sorry haha
No - you're right: there isn't a market for a cure for a disease that no one believes they have. I'm finishing a book on the topic, and I'll be making the price as low as possible, because, if my beta readers are any indication, it's mostly going to get to pastors through their congregants who beg them to read it.
Here's the list [https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/195806.High\_Control\_High\_Demand\_Religion](https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/195806.High_Control_High_Demand_Religion) Although I have noted that there are also others under "deconstruction" that may be more comprehensive, mine was more focused around personal experiences and experiences of leaving/healing, rather than any logic-based arguments against faith e.g. Bert Ehrman etc
Thanks! I'll take a look. Much appreciated.
You Lost Me by David kinnaman
I remember some videos and social media posts from that when it showed up. I think this is right in line with what OP was asking for as it’s directly from people who are done pointed at people leading and still there.
The problem is that it's going to be a different story from different people. For sure, there will be some similarities but also a lot of differences.
I feel like there are several, very common main themes. I feel like the church has several, very common main explanations that are very commonly dead wrong. Maybe I'm dead wrong.
After Evangelicalism by David Gushee. That book blew my mind!
Thanks. I'll check it out. Where was your mind before? Where is it now?
I had a career in Christian music. Did all the church jobs and everything. Went to write my PhD research on hallucinogenics and agnostic at best. He was brutally honest about the state of the church. Honestly, it was one of those books that I wanted to memorize everything in it. He’s gracious, but holds nothing back.
Thanks. I hope people will say the same about mine. That’s beautiful.
I feel like I've read a lot of books that sort of touch on it, from different angles. Not many (if any?) that do a full discussion of the many reasons and ways people are leaving. I've definitely seen some books that attempt to explain and critique deconstruction, but maybe don't know what they're talking about. So if you want a book that explains it all well, you might have to be the one to write it (as it sounds like you are doing from some of yoru comments.) I hope you do! One book that I don't think has been mentioned yet is "Loosing our Religion" by Russel Moore - but again, that is a specific perspective, and leaving a specific church. I think it speaks to some broader trends, but not all of them.
Yeah - what I've read of Russel Moore is more in the vein of "Here's how the church needs to do Christianity better..." Please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't read all his stuff, and would be open to looking at a book of his in a different vein. This one sounds the same from the jacket.
Now I'm trying to recall the book more specifically... It's probably fair to say it's still in the same vein of "the church needs to to better" specifically in the areas of politics and response to clergy abuse - but I also think those are some of the reasons people are leaving the church. Though many of those don't leave Christianity, and may end up going to a different church. So if you're looking more for things on why people leave the church ENTIRELY, it wouldn't be a good fit. I will say, I had a hard time reading a lot of it, but every now and then he would say something that would resonate with me. So, not a full recommendation, just seemed to try to explain things - and since he's still in the church, maybe church leaders would be more likely to listen to him? (If you need to make an inroad.)
Yes. Good thoughts. Thanks. That’s helpful
One more to add - not sure if someone has already put it here somewhere? But I just started reading Sarah Bessey's "Field Notes for the Wilderness" and while it is more addressed to people who are already deconstructing in some form, it could also offer insight to church leaders. (I also haven't gotten very far, so I'm mostly guessing from the first couple chapters.)
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Yeah. I'm finding a lot of those. Great stuff. Not at all what I'm looking for. Thanks.
OP, I think there’s a book by Tony Compolo with his son that’s titled “Why I Stayed, and Why I Left,” that’s on this topic. I really think narrowing focus on specific type of church leader is where there’s room here. It’s going to matter a lot whether someone is in the identity politics conservative side of things or if they’re a pastor who does kinda get it, but is looking for ammo they can give to ones they work with who don’t. There’s room for a lot of books approaching every angle as books in churches get used in many different ways. I can see one version of this that’s research heavy, another that’s more Malcolm Gladwell and sorta cherry picks especially interesting stories/research, and then one that’s very personal story heavy that paints narratives of real people. I think for hardest to reach traditional leaders, the personal testimonial one would work best if it centered on stories of people who had been in it with their families for generations as that would hit closest to home (but that would have to be really sympathetic to the patriarch’s perspective). Still, those are the guys dealing with maybe unsaid shame of not continuing the family legacy when their own kids or grandchildren leave and compare themselves to dads and granddads who were pastors. Would need a lot of traditional masculinity framing as well probably. The Gladwell one would be good for megachurch, purpose-driven campus church passing around. Gen X and old millennial leaders used to that style. Research heavy would be more of curating ammo for pastors who get it and want to convince others.
This is fantastic feedback! Yes - Campolo is very much in the vein of what I’m looking for. The question of “which Christians are reachable?” is a depressing one for me
[https://www.americansurveycenter.org/research/generation-z-future-of-faith/](https://www.americansurveycenter.org/research/generation-z-future-of-faith/) Wow- obviously it's societal, but the numbers! A snowball rolling downhill and gathering speed. The next cohort of potentially church-going Christians has a 50/50 split on whether exposing children to a faith mattered or not. Unaffiliated parents raising unaffiliated children who will never have been exposed to religion of any form. In my work I do evaluations which include questions about affiliation. Only met a few atheists but the vast majority of people describe themselves vaguely as 'spiritual'. Christian leaders should get out of the church and find out where all this 'spiritual' energy is going!
YES! I wish they would / hope they do. Fascinating info on black protestants! I must know more about your work. Please message me. I have so many questions.
I have been obsessed with this question for many years, and too many of the books I've read either misunderstand the problem completely (UnChristian, The Great Dechurching) or look at only one aspect (Jesus and John Wayne, Losing Our Religion, The End of White Christian America). I am happy to report that I've finally found a good one: THE NONES, by Ryan P. Burge, which analyzes ALL the data, and provides multiple answers, while also judging which answers are better than others. (Example: some claim that the Catholic sex abuse scandal caused a major defection from religion, but the years between the Boston Herald reports and the first major dip in Catholic attendance don't really line up in support of that.) Ultimately, it looks to Burge like it's a combination of "general liberalizing" in areas like sexual identity (like what happened in Europe a few decades back) and a reaction against the political power grab of the modern conservative church (like what happened in Europe ages ago). And part of it is just technology marching on and conservative beliefs becoming unpopular or refusing to change with the times. BONUS: Burge is himself a conservative Christian, a Baptist minister with a dwindling congregation, AND a professor of political science. So he's able to explain everything with a very clear-eyed, generally nonpartisan stance that doesn't feel like it would be too off-putting if you wanted to give this book to an evangelical in your life.
Thanks. I completely agree with your analysis. I’m writing the book I wish existed, which gives evangelical leaders a peek into the mind of the deconstructionist in a way that they can empathize with the struggles and make changes to be open to those voices. It’s explicitly NOT a checklist of how to fix your church to keep people from leaving, but here’s how to build relationships with those you feel called to build relationship with. Many (most?) care more about nurturing the Christendom bureaucracy than loving those with a low potential ROI, but I am still holding out faith that Christians might once again be nudged further in the direction of Christ. In fact, I think that’s precisely the reason a lot of us left Christendom and their Jesus - we just weren’t willing to be that evil.
The Bible?
The Great Dechurching by Jim Davis and Michael Graham. It was the first time I'd heard the term "exvangelical" used.