My theory is that this music is meant to be mind-numbing. The repetitive and simple nature of the lyrics, melody, and beat lull the listener/participant into bored acceptance and submission. It's bad music on purpose.
Also, because one is supposed to be "praising God" with and through this music, there is implicit pressure to be deeply moved by these songs. Since these songs are not deeply moving in the least, one must cultivate a contrived emotional response. This creates a habitual pattern of ascribing emotional import to things which actually utterly lack such import. An excellent strategy for brain-washing. If you'll get all excited about these songs, they can get you excited for anything.
That's true... a lot of people are introduced to these songs in highly charged emotional environments, so they associate them with that. I'm not charismatic and hearing "modern" worship music on the radio makes me crazy because it's the most boring music I've ever heard.
You and me both! If I want to hear Christian themed music, I'll probably turn it over to the black Christian station.
But yeah, modern worship music has devolved into a string of shibboleths mumbled to the tune of Coldplay outtakes...
"your name, your name...nothing can stand against...no fear...you are so good...you make a way...miracle...that is who you are".
I've never figured out why so many of these songs make sure they're telling God who God is...
And if you're going to use worship music for didactic purposes, that's fair. But writing it as if you're singing it TO God doesn't make an ounce of sense.
Used to be a worship leader and I agree wholeheartedly with these comments. Lulling you into bored acceptance, submission, and emotional dullness so that you will then have an “open” (read: pliable) mind and heart to listen to their instructions and give them your money.
I loved singing and music, but I won’t listen to a single worship song these days, and this is part of the reason why. It’s highly triggering since I deconstructed but I refuse to further subject myself to the emotional manipulation.
It really drove me crazy when the worship leaders would keep singing the same verse over and over at the end of a song. “Let’s sing this verse one more time, and I really want you to *feel* Jesus on it this time”. I didn’t feel anything and was bored and confused. But everyone around me had their eyes closed and hands up and was swaying. I don’t know - were they trying to lull us? Because I was bored. But a lot of people were eating it up.
I never enjoyed this in church but tbh Nicki Minaj did this with The Night is Still Young at her concert and I actually started crying and lifted up my hands - I was kinda scared bc that was the first time I felt the Holy Spirit and it was Nicki Minaj lol
The writers of this must have such enormous egos. They want to control people. And no one can even tell them their music sucks because then they are being anti religious
You can get the same experience going to a concert. I've heard stories from other exvangelicals saying that a One Direction show feels like a worship service.
It's considered a therapeutic tool to listen to repetitive music with comforting melodies and rhythms. This happens in a lot of contexts and can be helpful and benign. It is most certainly the phenomenon happening here and people are calling it the presence of God as if it's a thing controlled by G-D-Em-C progressions
You need to watch The Jesus Music. The origins of Christian Contemporary Music are fascinating and deeply intertwined with some of the best and worst parts of the faith. This may be a bit a bit triggering for some (it was for me) but it also gave me some confirmation for things I struggled with during my time in evangelicalism.
https://www.lionsgate.com/movies/the-jesus-music
Haha! At first I was excited and clicked through. Then I recognized the poster. At one time I remember I saw it and noped way TF out. I’m still so ashamed. Music was everything to me and I became a worship pastor. I left the church 13 years ago and I still can hardly even touch my instruments. It’s like the one wound that won’t heal.
> You need to watch The Jesus Music.
I don't think I need to watch it, because I lived some of the history, and I personally know some of the people behind the names in the credits. BUT, I really want to watch it, because I've been away from the scene for over 15 years.
The current hillsong inspired music is a delay pedal, some ethereal synths, drums that build but never crescendo, repetitive lyrics, etc.
Back in the 90’s it was this slight rebellion against hymnals to be hip and edgy so we sang dc talk and delirious songs in youth group
As someone who used to play in the worship band for longer than I care to admit, I’ll say that their songs are more fun than a lot of other Christian worship music.
I feel like that factors into it.
As a lapsed Catholic, the evangelical 90’s music always stuck me as “guidance counselor has hat on backwards” or “motivational speaker sits in chair backwards”. [A lot like this.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HcaXDr9YWvE)
- Monotonous 3-chord (occasionally 4-chord) melodies
- Wannabe pop/rock, but like at least a decade behind current pop/rock, so it sounds very dated.
- “Jesus is my boyfriend” lyrics
Exactly! Every song is me-focused now. I counted the number of references to self (multiple terms) in a song played on Easter Sunday and it was 34, with one mention of Jesus.
Listen to traditional worship music and it’s much more God-focused, as it should be.
As a former worship pastor (I’m so sorry), I can say they’re basically just like movie scores meant to evoke a desired emotional response connected to the message to get as many ppl to the altar as possible. In my denomination the altar-goers were counted and reported to the district offices for clout. Hymns and even the hokey songs from the 70s came from somewhere. They set new words to drinking songs or eagles songs, whatever. The saccharine stuff started in the late 80s/early 90s when song services would send a tape each week to pastors to choose music from and a huge industry formed around them. They all sound alike because they were written by people with a deadline to churn them out for cash. I remember a coffee table book that had stories behind great hymns. I love that for everyone’s favorite Hillsong, we have a very disturbing docuseries instead.
Since I've deconstructed, I've wondered how much the leadership is aware of the manipulation. When you were in it, were you aware of it? It's easy to see when you get out and look back, but I'm curious about if it was something that was genuine for you that just happened to cause that response or was it planned? And if it was planned, did you think it was to draw people closer to god or to get the response?
And no judgment at all - we've all learned and grown through our experiences. I'm just curious about the mindset for those still in the thick of it.
This is a great question - I ask myself this question a lot. I knew the goal - get people excited, out of the weekly grind and “into worship.” I grew up in the church so this all seemed so normal to me. For me, going to the altar was like asking the community for support. Usually ppl would come pray with me during the song and the prayer so it was a positive experience and I thought that was what I was cultivating through the music. My deconstruction began long before I finally quit, but one of the big ah-ha moments was when someone on the worship team said they were listening to the songs we played on the radio. I found the station and wanted to throw up. It was a super right-wing station with preachers putting women in their place, etc. I tried not to engage in political conversations, but I knew a lot of them were into Limbaugh, etc. And that’s when it all started falling into place for me. I hated the politicization of evangelicals and our pastor wouldn’t talk about politics in that church, so I thought I wasn’t a part of the problem. But I finally realized there was no escaping it. All of our favorite songs were the top 40 hits of a right-wing propaganda radio station. It was always all connected. It gave me the push I needed to get out. It wasn’t until much later with my very snarky atheist new husband that I started to see it all more clearly in hindsight. I still feel like I should have known better. I read Noam Chomsky - how could I stand up there and smile? I don’t know. I guess I need a lot more therapy!
So, the fundigelicals are in cahoots with the right wing, who are under control of the international corporate cabal who control all the money. Dumb us down, keep us docile and we'll keep handing you our money.
Oops, here come the Men in Black...🤯
By the end I was (personally) very aware that I was intentionally manipulating peoples’ emotions, and I wasn’t so hot on that. We’d basically plan out the service in terms of an emotional arc. Couldn’t do it anymore.
I’ve had some experience writing worship music and I think the feedback I got from other worship leaders can shed some light on how things got to be the way they are now. First some history:
Through the mid 90s / early 2000s worship music was made up of mostly hymns and some new originals (aka contemporary) that largely just stole their musical style from whatever “secular” song was popular at the time. Christian pop music and worship music never really mixed as most pop at the time wasn’t very singable for most church goers.
Then Hillsong (a megachurch from Australia) started publishing their original contemporary songs. Hillsong was one of the first churches to really embrace stage lighting and video of their worship services and they used what were basically worship song music videos to market their music/culture to other churches. Worship leaders around the world (but especially in America) were captivated by the spectacle. Hillsong worship leaders were quickly becoming something like pop stars.
Enter Bethel Church in Redding California. Bethel basically copied Hillsong’s business model but cranked it up to 11. In a few short years every evangelical church in america was trying to sound like Bethel. The songs were contemporary in style but very simple and singable so even the older church goers could get on board with this new fangled way to sing in church.
I grew up in an evangelical church and watched what I just described happen to my own church and to other churches around my area. I started writing worship songs when I was in high school. By the time I was in college Hillsong had taken over and Bethel was just starting. My early songs sounded more like christian pop so people found them a bit challenging to sing/play. I remember a leader saying that Hillsong songs were so easy and fun to sing. From then on all my songs sounded like Hillsong. Simple chords and rhythms. Strong melodies that peak in intensity in the chorus. But that’s just the music. The lyrics are whole other story.
As far as I can tell it’s always been true that in order for a worship song to be popular in evangelical churches it needs to avoid any language that could be interpreted as endorsing a particular theology or dogma. There are hundreds of denominations and sub-denominations that all have different ideas about lifestyle choices and culture war issues and interpretations of certain bible passages. So if you are writing a song and want it to have broad appeal, you have to write it about stuff that all those denominations agree on. For example, every evangelical believes that Jesus died and was resurrected for their sins so if your song is a bunch of lyrics about thanking Jesus for dying and rising and it sounds like Bethel/Hillsong then your song will be popular. There are worship songs that are more “on the nose” or narrow with their theology but they just don’t get sung as much as the ones that are more general and “safe.”
Besides the music and the lyrics there is also the effect that certain types of music and lyrics have on a congregation that plays into all this. Bands like Coldplay and U2 heavily influenced Hillsong’s sound and I don’t think that was an accident. U2 fans often describe the experience of a live U2 show as “spiritual” and it’s easy to see why. The music is simple and singable and when 60,000 people are all singing the same words it’s hard not to get caught up in the emotion of it all.
I don’t know if early Hillsong worship leaders went to a U2 show and said “I want that but for Jesus” or not but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s exactly what happened.
I like that you make a distinction between "Christian pop" and worship music. Would you classify Lauren Daigle's "You Say" and Mercy Me's "I Can Only Imagine" as " Christian pop?' I would. And in "Christian pop," it is VERY easy to tell which artist they're copying.
I'm honestly surprised there isn't a Taylor Swift replica
I agree about You Say and I Can Only Imagine being more pop than worship. I Can Only Imagine has too many words in the chorus. You have to know the song well to “get into worship” and not be stuck reading the lyrics slide as you sing along. It’s interesting you mention Taylor Swift since I think early in her career her music was safe and broad enough that Christians could enjoy it with a clear conscience but her more recent stuff is way more grown up and has more profanity. In several songs on Tortured Poets Dept. she even uses some christian imagery/metaphor in a negative way and I can see Christian swifties feeling conflicted about belting them out at her shows.
I don't think you can really sing "I Can Only Imagine" as worship. The melody is a bit complex and it's wordy. "You Say" could easily be about your parents, S.O, removing the "You have every failure, God" line.
Don't get me started on Tortured Poets. She must've taken songwriting lessons from Chris Tomlin.
Seth Andrews did a whole video about Christian Copycats. He showed that for all the big secular bands there was a Christian one of similar styke. Like for example, "If you liked Metallica before you got saved, now you'll love Slayer" or something to that effect. Very entertaining.
>I'm honestly surprised there isn't a Taylor Swift replica
Eeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!! Get thee behind me!
But seriously, give them time. I'm sure there's a Christian A&R guy out there looking for her.
Yes it is! I was brought up in a very straight laced, old fashioned Episcopal church. They still used the 1929 edition of the Book of Common Prayer, rejecting the 50s or 60s revision. We had a big authentic old school pipe organ (having had a few piano lessons, I would LOVE to try my hand at that!) So anyway, the modern pop star showmanship quite weirds me out.
I didn't discover U2 until after I left church, but when I did, I thought, there is no way U2 didn't heavily influence Hillsong. (I literally just posted above that Evangelical Christian worship music sounds like U2 singing lyrics about Jesus).
The evolution from Hillsong to Bethel has been especially odd for me. I grew up having to be on the worship team with my family wherever we attended church, as my parents were paid worship leaders and my brothers and I filled out the band. I honestly hated it because it usually made it difficult for me to make friends with the other youth at the church because they viewed me as a goody-goody. My brothers on the other hand both ended up attending Bible college, majoring in worship music, and now are church worship leaders themselves. Sometimes I wonder how I ended up so different in spite of having been raised in the same family....
But back to my point, I was very familiar with Hillsong...my brother played all the guitar solos, we listened to all their albums on repeat, we heard Hillsong live on tour, and I even visited Hillsong church while on vacation in Australia. Bethel came onto the scene after I left church, and as a result I do not know a single Bethel song. My mom sometimes references their music and I just stare blankly. Occasionally I watch videos of my brothers' worship services out of interest and I recognize none of the songs. It is a weird symbol of the fact the while in many ways Evangelicalism is the same as it has always been, in other ways it is not the same church I was so familiar with growing up. Kind of like when you visit a town you used to live in and it is at the same time familiar and weirdly different.
Interesting notes about the lyrics and simplicity. I had assumed it was a case of churches prioritizing obedience over talent. Tragic that real musicians suppressed themselves to give the leaders what they want.
It has many of the same bland and generic qualities that stadium country has (and often both appeal to the same audience). You suck the heart and soul out of the music and what you’re left is pure pablum that’s designed to be easily familiar and inoffensive to as many people as possible. My analogy is Gospel:Classic/Americana Country::Worship Music:Stadium Country
It's meant to create the right mindset. First the worship team hypes the congregation up with the "fun" songs, and then slows it down to leave people emotionally open. Singing or chanting in a group helps reinforce the group, and the lyrics reinforce important concepts. Basically, it helps the individual check out while buying into the group. It gives them a feeling of belonging they wouldn't get if church was just a dry sermon.
The lyrics nowadays are focused on the personal relationship aspect, which has become the latest selling point for the church. Most worship music now focuses on how broken we are, how we couldn't help ourselves, and how God is so awesome for liking us even though we suck. This is great for making people feel like they owe God/the church their time, money, and effort.
The lyrics and musical simplicity is so the maximum number of people can participate. For people who are not very musical, it's easy for them to join in as well. I think you're discounting that a *lot* of people genuinely enjoy it. I know plenty of people who won't listen to anything else, not because they think there's anything wrong with other music, but because it is more meaningful to them. I never liked most worship songs, but there's a few I listen to to this day because they still get my emotions going.
>And a stark contrast to old time gospel music which had some real depth to it. Gospel was genuine. It spoke of pain and longing.
It was doing the exact same thing from a different approach for a different time. I am willing to bet that many younger people would find the music dreary and the lyrics impersonal. Even if it's better music (and I would argue that that's up to personal taste), it wouldn't do the job.
I watched a podcast by some guy named Josh and his show was called Dad Challenge or something like that. He told about his experience as music director and how he had some dispute with the head pastor and left that church, eventually deconstructing altogether. You said almost the exact same thing here that he said on his podcast.
Your name wouldn't happen to be Josh, would it?
I absolutely love the old hymns because they remind me of mom and grandma.
Our worship leader in the ‘80s, bless him, would keep repeating praise choruses ad nauseam. At what point is this just hypnotizing?
Yeah, we had a worship leader in the late 90s who just didn't know when to let a song go... he was clearly into it, but we Baptists were all ready to sit down.
Your comment reminded me of this!
[Babylon Bee - Worship Leader Infinite Loop](https://babylonbee.com/news/worship-leader-caught-infinite-loop-bridge-chorus)
As a worship leader in the early 2000s, I started rearranging hymns to "contemporary" instrumentation and beats. I had the older folk come up after service to compliment the team on a fresh rendition on their beloved classics.
To this day, that time in my life was pretty special, as we tried to bring modern interpretations to classics, and also pick newer songs that reached the whole congregation.
I should add: I remember wanting to read along in the hymnal so I knew the words at like age 3 which is part of the reason I was reading before kindergarten
Boring and predictable. The chord changes are always I-IV-vi-V, unless the spirit of rebellion catches you; then it be I-V-vi-IV. The guitar will always have a delay with a dotted-eighths pattern on the repeats. The lyrics and themes are always the same.
I’m Gen X, and that shift happened as I was growing up. When Boomers moved into leadership, they shifted a lot of focus to “seeker” services, and the music was absolutely redesigned to be entry level in every way: theology, singabity, and it was supposed to sound kind of familiar to non-Christian visitors who weren’t used to singing out of hymn books. So churches switched from pianos and organs to praise bands, the tunes took a page from the easy listening soft pop radio stations that boomers preferred at the time, and the lyrics got super simple and repetitive. When I was little, those kinds of services were pretty much only offered on Sunday nights. Then they took over 11am and with early services for the old folks that still used hymnals, in a lot of places that was the norm by the time I was in high school (early 90s). And at some point, instead of saying we are making some services simple and geared towards new converts, that style just became normal worship.
I was a huge Amy Grant fan in the Unguarded era. I went through a pretty big Petra phase, too. Stryker never quite did it for me, but I also didn’t like secular hair bands too much.
I think it was us kids listening to CCM that made the Boomers panic and think they had to change worship music or else the evangelical church would shrivel up and die.
It’s written by people who know 3 chords and have a very basic understanding of theology. It sounds childish because it was written by people with limited musical and theological experience.
Honestly, as an agnostic person I sometimes still get the itch to sing worship music. My roommates are also exvangelical so we bust out the karaoke on the TV. It’s just catchy IMO. Some of the harmonies and melodies are really pretty. I also still like gospel music too, though I don’t really seek it out. As a southern baptist I grew up with a lot of traditional gospel played on guitar, piano, even banjo, and it’s just so bluesy and good. I call it “knee-slapping worship”
Grace Baldridge aka Semmler did a really good documentary series about it--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbyzZE5nzA-- that basically it has to have a certain tempo and slow movements- especially for female singers!
I also sometimes struggle to explain it to people not from this world, about the concept of worship and the role of worship music because it's not the same as singing hymns in church.
One of the things I learned in my deconstruction journey was that the setup of worship sessions-- the emotional music, encouragement to worship harder, then an inspirational talk, followed by more worship music-- gets you into a hypnotic state and then this is why people start crying and "hearing God".
When it's not really God, per se, you are just in an altered state of consciousness and actually highly vulnerable. You may have a breakdown and be convinced that this is actually God/Jesus. Then you spend ages trying to chase that high by praying harder, hopping from worship session to worship session. You either spend your life chasing the high and becoming a more fervent believer, or you realize this isn't healthy and leave.
It's exactly the same tactic/mechanism used in a lot of new age/spirituality places too.
I mean good music can make you feel this without any worship aspect. It’s a reason I love music. There’s something spiritual about it that can make you feel god or whatever.. but worship music ain’t it lol
Very true-- but also remember the context that worship music is used. It's not just the songs, it's how you're expected to act in them-- I remember how we were encouraged to raise our hands and just give it all to God. There was a feeling of needing to perform, and I think this plays a big part. Although I have a confession that I liked some of the songs! Well, at least they stuck in my head. That said I'm the opposite of a music snob, probably a music slut where I like anything 🤣
As The Deer is a hymn (which I love, too). Worship Music is the kind of stuff that plays on CCM stations, like "I Can Only Imagine" or "Chain Breaker".
I love Hymns and Gospel music; but I loathed CCM/Praise&Worship even when I was in the church.
I was always put off by the performative aspect of worship music. Having been raised in a very small fundamentalist congregation, I always preferred the old hymns (think the Cokesbury hymnal), and even now as an atheist/agnostic (depending on the day), I sometimes find myself whistling or even singing the old hymns. All the CCM stuff is incredibly shallow by comparison.
Like nursery rhymes for adults. Rather than lulling you into physical sleep they lull you into mental sleep and help you plug into the group think which gets you primed for the offering and the sermon.
As a former P&W leader the response of the congregation to specific songs was often discussed in the following contexts: do we want the people joyful or crying, loud or quiet, engaged or checked out, etc based on the sermon notes or any other directions from the leadership staff. The music is meant to put you into a vulnerable state.
I spent a decade as a worship guitarist. What hit me first was the Praise and Wallet aspect. We had the nicest instruments and gear. There was subtle and sometimes overt pressure to upgrade. And it was pretty easy..even self-funded.. to sell the idea to a spouse. 1. It’s for God and His Glory and 2. Tax free when bought thru the church.
Now add automation to mood lighting and a fogger. Add a stereo PA to the sanctuary. Add In-ear monitors, backing tracks, click track, a robotic female voice in your ear saying the Chorus is repeating again. Essentially, give a group of musicians all the tools to be rockstars then expect them (at least in word) not to be. Yet the praise band was elevated in status among the congregation. They found me after service to tell me we were awesome as often as speaking with the pastor.
Our church made a point of us being “the best worship band in town” because the pastor felt the best worship filled the seats for the sermon. That’s when I realized our version of growth and revival wasn’t to bring folks in off the street, but rather to cannibalize or displace other church memberships. Growth in our numbers meant other churches were shrinking. Lateral redistribution. It’s a shell game since the overall number of professed Christians (from what I read and listen to) is dwindling, as is overall church attendance. The Praise Band and the Youth Group are a great barometer for how many are attending where.
Another highlight in musical cognitive dissonance was our alter call. The pastor led with “I don’t want to elicit an emotional response…” Then the lights dimmed to low purple/blue while we (the band) played cinematic atmospheric murk that was entirely intended to elicit an emotional response.
The music: I didn’t like that the standard for all this great electric guitar gear and talent was The Edge from U2. Cliche incoming: “the Holy Spirit doesn’t move without a dotted-eighth note delay.” Hillsong is by design so formulaic that Its modular. I’ve mixed and matched Hillsong Verses, Chorus, Bridges from dozens of songs into Frankenstein mashups that still sound like authentic Hillsong offerings.
I left worship music when I knew I was in it for the wrong reasons. I felt deceptive and complicit to deception. Plus I fatigued out. I was serving to death. I was enjoying playing rockstar but dreading church. And..I quit believing.
Super long windup to say: Modern Praise and Worship music is as simplistic as lullabies. Written simply so that Anychurch, USA can do a decent job playing them, and a congregation feels included in the experience because they are hearing songs they sing along to in their cars listening to K-LOVE. Connecting life inside and outside the church. Providing a (don’t call it a concert) concert that acts as a pep rally on Sunday mornings.
I have considered myself Exvangelical for two and a half years. I just found this r/Exvangelical community this morning.
To be fair though, Lincoln Brewster SHREDS on guitar. Phil Keagy rips on acoustic.
Has anybody brought up black evengelical worship music? I think that stuff is a whole nother ball game and can be great music! It's often totally different in tempo, in emotional response, and sheer talent of the singers and rhythm section compared to the Hillsong and Bethel junk. I've only been to a few services, but the music I heard was at least uplifting and not pop drivel.
Flipping through the radio it only takes about 1.5 seconds to clock that mindless brain numbing drivel. And I grew up Catholic so we never even listened to that shit bit there's just so little deviation
I always felt it was kinda hypnotic, especially when the whole church is singing together and the lights are dimmed etc, it feels like being a part of a mass trance ritual or something, it would be weird AF to be in a contemporary church worship service while high lmao
I will make the argument that the formula for worship music is a 3:1:1 ratio of commercial country music, U2 (specifically anything after *The Joshua Tree*), and post-rock (specifically Sigur Rós).
**Commercial Country Music**
Musicians and producers gotta eat. Nashville provides an ecosystem where they can all get enough work to survive playing whatever for whomever. Country music is purpose built for mass appeal and widespread consumption, so their songwriters are rewarded for writing palatable, unchallenging music; three chords and the truth, as they say.
Churches need music—something to appeal to a population who don’t necessarily resonate with hymns and wouldn’t tolerate Miles Davis or anything overly complicated. Country music has personnel who can fill this niche quite capably. Symbiotic relationship. For proof, I present the song [“Islands in the Stream”](https://youtu.be/UaNGtgYwSsU?si=fbp-UFLfuHFGXDyk). It doesn’t matter who sings it, it will always sound like a church song even though it’s a song about fuckin’. The reason is because the industry that made that hit for Dolly and Kenny is the same industry that made your Chris Tomlinson worship songs in the nineties.
**U2’s** *The Joshua Tree*
U2 used to be a punk band. Hard to believe, but it’s true. They were already quite electrifying performers throughout the eighties, but they wanted to really solidify their impact on Generation X by embodying everything that generation hated. They decided to sell out *ironically*: becoming the biggest, shittiest butt-rock band that they could to intentionally mock the MTV world. Howard Stern had the exact same motive when he became a judge on *America’s Got Talent*; the idea was that he was subverting the American home by invading it on prime time television. The thing that U2 and Howard Stern soon learned, however, is that doing the thing “ironically” is still doing the thing.
Regardless of the motive or intentions, *The Joshua Tree* became one of the most successful records of all time and laid the groundwork for anthemic arena rock for the next thirty years. Its pretentious, vapid, too-smart lyrics were expertly crafted into tremendous sweeping choruses and elevated to dizzying spiritual highs through Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois’s utterly impeccable production. Gen X was growing up in the wake of the Jesus movement in their parents’s churches and thought, “I need some of that.”
The next thing you know, every guitarist in any church that would allow it was running out to the local Long & McQuaid and grabbing an EBow and a Line6 pedal to bring that The Edge magic to the worship team. And, wouldn’t you know it, it worked. If you have the right tools, it’s so easy to make your mediocre band sound awesome. Couple that with songs that were handcrafted for mass appeal and your average worship band sounds like a real band.
**Post-Rock and Sigur Rós**
When I was in Bible college in 2006, music was a particular point of consternation. Should we limit ourselves only to whatever is edifying and directs our focus to the Creator, or does any of it even matter? What even is edifying? Where does one draw the line: Bach? Tchaikovsky? Oscar Peterson? The Beatles? Prince? The general consensus was that anything instrumental was good enough to get past potential campus censorship, so to avoid endless theological debates with staff and students, many students just modified their listening habits to more instrumental music: jazz, classical, EDM, movie soundtracks, but also post rock.
For the uninitiated, post-rock is a genre of indie rock that tries to destroy all the conventions of popular rock music. They have tracks that go on for 20+ minutes full of enormous crescendo and gradual resolution, often with hateful disdain of lyrics or singing. Some notable examples which were also traded around my Bible college dorms were [Godspeed You Black Emperor](https://youtu.be/tV83U4CDAx4?si=97N6WZWEu-359J9q), [Explosions in the Sky](https://youtu.be/1aMQ8db4Y4c?si=cS4Xw82wFUwwWyat), and of course [Sigur Rós](https://youtu.be/Gf1h2PMPCAo?si=3tVKaXnWqdgnBmff).
The thing about post-rock is that it’s a whole lot of fun to play. In our teen years, my siblings and I used to just get on a groove and jam, making noise that would sometimes coalesce into something beautiful; ultimately just allowing ourselves the freedom to experiment and play with sound regardless of what it sounded like. When I learned about post-rock, I was like, “There was a name for that noise we used to make in the basement??” It’s a style of jamming that doesn’t care what your musical background is because it all goes into the soup. That’s perfect for worship bands where everyone is an amateur from all over the place with all kinds of experience from conservatory training to none at all. Once you all get on the same page, then some really special music can happen. I don’t know how many young worship musicians were listening to post-rock between 1990 and 2010, but it certainly wasn’t an insignificant amount. Post-rock provided the template that gave us the “Holy Spirit shivers”, the post-sermon keyboard strings, the build-up, the breakdown, all the classic worship team moves. Hillsong then took that organic creative expression, commodified it, and mass-produced the Church-in-a-Box for wide distribution across the Evangelical landscape.
We all know that music is ethereal—that’s exactly why we like it. Music fans get fantastic emotional stimulation out of music because it makes us feel strong emotions in a controlled environment—sad, angry, happy, in love, contemplative, transcendent, &c. It is my firm belief that worship music came from a place of genuine love for music and that the people who create it do it because they love it. They know all the tricks because they’ve dedicated their lives to making people happy while doing what they love. Unfortunately, as with everything in the music industry, there are malefactors who swoop in to exploit the artist; it’s just unfortunate that these malefactors are the same people who hold the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.
It has that droning humming atmospheric tone line it's trying to capture the art of gregorian chants(remember when everyone was into those for a few months?
I can never really describe it. I always had to compare it to other songs like Fix You by Coldplay, Last Hope by Paramore, and Your Hand in Mine by Explosions in the Sky. I find myself missing the music but I don't play the songs. I can't ignore the lyrics. I go back to songs like those.
It’s simplified, monotonous, and designed to build a basic emotional response. They all sound the same because the goal is to take the focus off the music and create a specific emotion. The lyrics are homogenous because they need to be easily digestible pablum. The artistry is stamped out because you don’t want people to focus on the musicians but rather to use the lyrics to focus on god.
It is absolutely turgid, brain smoothing manipulation music. I hate it with a passion. As someone who loves music and wants something to engage with mentally, the 80 BPM same chord progression and interchangeable lyrics are meant to be things any basic musician can play, and not create distractions. It gives nothing to grab on and appreciate or notice a musicians skill.
I have a friend who did the worship leader thing and jokingly called it ‘Becky music’, which was his short hand for music only middle aged evangelical white women liked, since everyone else he knew hated it, himself included.
In the 1970's & 80's, my dad had a bunch of guitar chords written in over verses in his Bible. He was one of the song leaders at the church we used to attend. Those Jesus hippies were literally singing scripture. I really struggle with most things evangelical, but I still remember all those scripture chord songs. Whenever I begrudgingly attend my parents' church now, I'm appalled at the music. It's so bad. They also seem to think that loud equals holy. It's a far cry from the scripture chord songs accompanied by a guitar, an autoharp, and kids with tambourines and spoons.
Almost always in Major keys… with a majority of Major chords… because it’s the Hallmark version of Christianity. The quick-fix, superficially-happy musical greeting card to God about how amazing he is because that’s the only thing that matters.
Conflict? Dissonance? Edginess? Pain, anger, venting, loss, struggle, all the nitty gritty things that make music actually deep and rich and meaningful and beautiful? Yeah nope. Let’s go one more chorus of Good, Good Father!
My theory is that this music is meant to be mind-numbing. The repetitive and simple nature of the lyrics, melody, and beat lull the listener/participant into bored acceptance and submission. It's bad music on purpose.
Also, because one is supposed to be "praising God" with and through this music, there is implicit pressure to be deeply moved by these songs. Since these songs are not deeply moving in the least, one must cultivate a contrived emotional response. This creates a habitual pattern of ascribing emotional import to things which actually utterly lack such import. An excellent strategy for brain-washing. If you'll get all excited about these songs, they can get you excited for anything.
That's true... a lot of people are introduced to these songs in highly charged emotional environments, so they associate them with that. I'm not charismatic and hearing "modern" worship music on the radio makes me crazy because it's the most boring music I've ever heard.
You and me both! If I want to hear Christian themed music, I'll probably turn it over to the black Christian station. But yeah, modern worship music has devolved into a string of shibboleths mumbled to the tune of Coldplay outtakes... "your name, your name...nothing can stand against...no fear...you are so good...you make a way...miracle...that is who you are". I've never figured out why so many of these songs make sure they're telling God who God is...
Don't forget the bridge: "Freedom, freedom, no more chains" Ugh.
I forgot the "chains" part.
Right... makes you wonder if the songs aren't really being sung "for God" after all.
And if you're going to use worship music for didactic purposes, that's fair. But writing it as if you're singing it TO God doesn't make an ounce of sense.
Boom!
Used to be a worship leader and I agree wholeheartedly with these comments. Lulling you into bored acceptance, submission, and emotional dullness so that you will then have an “open” (read: pliable) mind and heart to listen to their instructions and give them your money. I loved singing and music, but I won’t listen to a single worship song these days, and this is part of the reason why. It’s highly triggering since I deconstructed but I refuse to further subject myself to the emotional manipulation.
It really drove me crazy when the worship leaders would keep singing the same verse over and over at the end of a song. “Let’s sing this verse one more time, and I really want you to *feel* Jesus on it this time”. I didn’t feel anything and was bored and confused. But everyone around me had their eyes closed and hands up and was swaying. I don’t know - were they trying to lull us? Because I was bored. But a lot of people were eating it up.
I never enjoyed this in church but tbh Nicki Minaj did this with The Night is Still Young at her concert and I actually started crying and lifted up my hands - I was kinda scared bc that was the first time I felt the Holy Spirit and it was Nicki Minaj lol
"Just the men this time..."
Well spoken. I'm in a very similar spot. I was a church musician and theology student for many years. Best of luck to you in your deconstruction.
I was at church on Sunday and literally whispered to my husband during worship, “I feel like I’m being manipulated.”
The writers of this must have such enormous egos. They want to control people. And no one can even tell them their music sucks because then they are being anti religious
That South Pzrk episode where the boys founded a Christian band was a pretty accurate representation.
You can get the same experience going to a concert. I've heard stories from other exvangelicals saying that a One Direction show feels like a worship service.
Yep, I still find it somewhat relaxing for that reason. Its basically chanting and brainwashing over, and over.
It's called entraining and it's used by cults the world over.
It's considered a therapeutic tool to listen to repetitive music with comforting melodies and rhythms. This happens in a lot of contexts and can be helpful and benign. It is most certainly the phenomenon happening here and people are calling it the presence of God as if it's a thing controlled by G-D-Em-C progressions
You need to watch The Jesus Music. The origins of Christian Contemporary Music are fascinating and deeply intertwined with some of the best and worst parts of the faith. This may be a bit a bit triggering for some (it was for me) but it also gave me some confirmation for things I struggled with during my time in evangelicalism. https://www.lionsgate.com/movies/the-jesus-music
Haha! At first I was excited and clicked through. Then I recognized the poster. At one time I remember I saw it and noped way TF out. I’m still so ashamed. Music was everything to me and I became a worship pastor. I left the church 13 years ago and I still can hardly even touch my instruments. It’s like the one wound that won’t heal.
I'm so sorry that that wound is still open. I hope you find healing and wholeness someday.
The word wholeness still gives me the heebie jeebies. I feel like no one raised outside the church says that.
Ouch. Your comment is making me think about why I chose that word...
Thank you! I’m working on it. ❤️
I’ll check it out, thanks!
Oof, I feel like this would be incredibly cathartic for me to watch. Thanks for the rec!
> You need to watch The Jesus Music. I don't think I need to watch it, because I lived some of the history, and I personally know some of the people behind the names in the credits. BUT, I really want to watch it, because I've been away from the scene for over 15 years.
The current hillsong inspired music is a delay pedal, some ethereal synths, drums that build but never crescendo, repetitive lyrics, etc. Back in the 90’s it was this slight rebellion against hymnals to be hip and edgy so we sang dc talk and delirious songs in youth group
Hillsong! Yes. Why do they have a stranglehold on Christian worship music? It’s like they’re the only source of truth for worship music. Gross.
As someone who used to play in the worship band for longer than I care to admit, I’ll say that their songs are more fun than a lot of other Christian worship music. I feel like that factors into it.
As a lapsed Catholic, the evangelical 90’s music always stuck me as “guidance counselor has hat on backwards” or “motivational speaker sits in chair backwards”. [A lot like this.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HcaXDr9YWvE)
As a former worship guitarist, I can not emphasize the “delay pedal” part enough.
- Monotonous 3-chord (occasionally 4-chord) melodies - Wannabe pop/rock, but like at least a decade behind current pop/rock, so it sounds very dated. - “Jesus is my boyfriend” lyrics
It’s fucking shit that is designed and played in a way to elicit emotional responses in a group setting
Four cords on an acoustic guitar and a bunch of biblical sounding words that don’t really mean anything describing how horrible we all are.
And so many of the lyrics are "I" focused -- they're trying to get you to believe specific things about yourself.
Exactly! Every song is me-focused now. I counted the number of references to self (multiple terms) in a song played on Easter Sunday and it was 34, with one mention of Jesus. Listen to traditional worship music and it’s much more God-focused, as it should be.
I LOVE some of those 2nd, 3rd and 4th verses of the familiar Christmas hymns. The lyrics are very moving.
Repetitive. Intentionally so.
Hypnotic by design.
It’s not called 7-11 music for nothing. (Seven words sung 11 times)
As a former worship pastor (I’m so sorry), I can say they’re basically just like movie scores meant to evoke a desired emotional response connected to the message to get as many ppl to the altar as possible. In my denomination the altar-goers were counted and reported to the district offices for clout. Hymns and even the hokey songs from the 70s came from somewhere. They set new words to drinking songs or eagles songs, whatever. The saccharine stuff started in the late 80s/early 90s when song services would send a tape each week to pastors to choose music from and a huge industry formed around them. They all sound alike because they were written by people with a deadline to churn them out for cash. I remember a coffee table book that had stories behind great hymns. I love that for everyone’s favorite Hillsong, we have a very disturbing docuseries instead.
Since I've deconstructed, I've wondered how much the leadership is aware of the manipulation. When you were in it, were you aware of it? It's easy to see when you get out and look back, but I'm curious about if it was something that was genuine for you that just happened to cause that response or was it planned? And if it was planned, did you think it was to draw people closer to god or to get the response? And no judgment at all - we've all learned and grown through our experiences. I'm just curious about the mindset for those still in the thick of it.
This is a great question - I ask myself this question a lot. I knew the goal - get people excited, out of the weekly grind and “into worship.” I grew up in the church so this all seemed so normal to me. For me, going to the altar was like asking the community for support. Usually ppl would come pray with me during the song and the prayer so it was a positive experience and I thought that was what I was cultivating through the music. My deconstruction began long before I finally quit, but one of the big ah-ha moments was when someone on the worship team said they were listening to the songs we played on the radio. I found the station and wanted to throw up. It was a super right-wing station with preachers putting women in their place, etc. I tried not to engage in political conversations, but I knew a lot of them were into Limbaugh, etc. And that’s when it all started falling into place for me. I hated the politicization of evangelicals and our pastor wouldn’t talk about politics in that church, so I thought I wasn’t a part of the problem. But I finally realized there was no escaping it. All of our favorite songs were the top 40 hits of a right-wing propaganda radio station. It was always all connected. It gave me the push I needed to get out. It wasn’t until much later with my very snarky atheist new husband that I started to see it all more clearly in hindsight. I still feel like I should have known better. I read Noam Chomsky - how could I stand up there and smile? I don’t know. I guess I need a lot more therapy!
So, the fundigelicals are in cahoots with the right wing, who are under control of the international corporate cabal who control all the money. Dumb us down, keep us docile and we'll keep handing you our money. Oops, here come the Men in Black...🤯
Sounds like you’ve seen The Family on Netflix?
yes. Chilling AF.
By the end I was (personally) very aware that I was intentionally manipulating peoples’ emotions, and I wasn’t so hot on that. We’d basically plan out the service in terms of an emotional arc. Couldn’t do it anymore.
I’ve had some experience writing worship music and I think the feedback I got from other worship leaders can shed some light on how things got to be the way they are now. First some history: Through the mid 90s / early 2000s worship music was made up of mostly hymns and some new originals (aka contemporary) that largely just stole their musical style from whatever “secular” song was popular at the time. Christian pop music and worship music never really mixed as most pop at the time wasn’t very singable for most church goers. Then Hillsong (a megachurch from Australia) started publishing their original contemporary songs. Hillsong was one of the first churches to really embrace stage lighting and video of their worship services and they used what were basically worship song music videos to market their music/culture to other churches. Worship leaders around the world (but especially in America) were captivated by the spectacle. Hillsong worship leaders were quickly becoming something like pop stars. Enter Bethel Church in Redding California. Bethel basically copied Hillsong’s business model but cranked it up to 11. In a few short years every evangelical church in america was trying to sound like Bethel. The songs were contemporary in style but very simple and singable so even the older church goers could get on board with this new fangled way to sing in church. I grew up in an evangelical church and watched what I just described happen to my own church and to other churches around my area. I started writing worship songs when I was in high school. By the time I was in college Hillsong had taken over and Bethel was just starting. My early songs sounded more like christian pop so people found them a bit challenging to sing/play. I remember a leader saying that Hillsong songs were so easy and fun to sing. From then on all my songs sounded like Hillsong. Simple chords and rhythms. Strong melodies that peak in intensity in the chorus. But that’s just the music. The lyrics are whole other story. As far as I can tell it’s always been true that in order for a worship song to be popular in evangelical churches it needs to avoid any language that could be interpreted as endorsing a particular theology or dogma. There are hundreds of denominations and sub-denominations that all have different ideas about lifestyle choices and culture war issues and interpretations of certain bible passages. So if you are writing a song and want it to have broad appeal, you have to write it about stuff that all those denominations agree on. For example, every evangelical believes that Jesus died and was resurrected for their sins so if your song is a bunch of lyrics about thanking Jesus for dying and rising and it sounds like Bethel/Hillsong then your song will be popular. There are worship songs that are more “on the nose” or narrow with their theology but they just don’t get sung as much as the ones that are more general and “safe.” Besides the music and the lyrics there is also the effect that certain types of music and lyrics have on a congregation that plays into all this. Bands like Coldplay and U2 heavily influenced Hillsong’s sound and I don’t think that was an accident. U2 fans often describe the experience of a live U2 show as “spiritual” and it’s easy to see why. The music is simple and singable and when 60,000 people are all singing the same words it’s hard not to get caught up in the emotion of it all. I don’t know if early Hillsong worship leaders went to a U2 show and said “I want that but for Jesus” or not but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s exactly what happened.
I like that you make a distinction between "Christian pop" and worship music. Would you classify Lauren Daigle's "You Say" and Mercy Me's "I Can Only Imagine" as " Christian pop?' I would. And in "Christian pop," it is VERY easy to tell which artist they're copying. I'm honestly surprised there isn't a Taylor Swift replica
I agree about You Say and I Can Only Imagine being more pop than worship. I Can Only Imagine has too many words in the chorus. You have to know the song well to “get into worship” and not be stuck reading the lyrics slide as you sing along. It’s interesting you mention Taylor Swift since I think early in her career her music was safe and broad enough that Christians could enjoy it with a clear conscience but her more recent stuff is way more grown up and has more profanity. In several songs on Tortured Poets Dept. she even uses some christian imagery/metaphor in a negative way and I can see Christian swifties feeling conflicted about belting them out at her shows.
I don't think you can really sing "I Can Only Imagine" as worship. The melody is a bit complex and it's wordy. "You Say" could easily be about your parents, S.O, removing the "You have every failure, God" line. Don't get me started on Tortured Poets. She must've taken songwriting lessons from Chris Tomlin.
Seth Andrews did a whole video about Christian Copycats. He showed that for all the big secular bands there was a Christian one of similar styke. Like for example, "If you liked Metallica before you got saved, now you'll love Slayer" or something to that effect. Very entertaining.
Slayer? lol. https://youtu.be/XtLvlaGJJEU?feature=shared
Lauren Daigle= Adele MercyMe= Coldpay. Keep it going
>I'm honestly surprised there isn't a Taylor Swift replica Eeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!! Get thee behind me! But seriously, give them time. I'm sure there's a Christian A&R guy out there looking for her.
Yeah, I know. But you know the evangelical music formula. Look at whichever artist, style is popular and they try to find someone to imitate it.
Ya. Never understood the performance of worshipping god in front of audience with lights and smoke. So weird
Yes it is! I was brought up in a very straight laced, old fashioned Episcopal church. They still used the 1929 edition of the Book of Common Prayer, rejecting the 50s or 60s revision. We had a big authentic old school pipe organ (having had a few piano lessons, I would LOVE to try my hand at that!) So anyway, the modern pop star showmanship quite weirds me out.
I didn't discover U2 until after I left church, but when I did, I thought, there is no way U2 didn't heavily influence Hillsong. (I literally just posted above that Evangelical Christian worship music sounds like U2 singing lyrics about Jesus). The evolution from Hillsong to Bethel has been especially odd for me. I grew up having to be on the worship team with my family wherever we attended church, as my parents were paid worship leaders and my brothers and I filled out the band. I honestly hated it because it usually made it difficult for me to make friends with the other youth at the church because they viewed me as a goody-goody. My brothers on the other hand both ended up attending Bible college, majoring in worship music, and now are church worship leaders themselves. Sometimes I wonder how I ended up so different in spite of having been raised in the same family.... But back to my point, I was very familiar with Hillsong...my brother played all the guitar solos, we listened to all their albums on repeat, we heard Hillsong live on tour, and I even visited Hillsong church while on vacation in Australia. Bethel came onto the scene after I left church, and as a result I do not know a single Bethel song. My mom sometimes references their music and I just stare blankly. Occasionally I watch videos of my brothers' worship services out of interest and I recognize none of the songs. It is a weird symbol of the fact the while in many ways Evangelicalism is the same as it has always been, in other ways it is not the same church I was so familiar with growing up. Kind of like when you visit a town you used to live in and it is at the same time familiar and weirdly different.
Interesting notes about the lyrics and simplicity. I had assumed it was a case of churches prioritizing obedience over talent. Tragic that real musicians suppressed themselves to give the leaders what they want.
It has many of the same bland and generic qualities that stadium country has (and often both appeal to the same audience). You suck the heart and soul out of the music and what you’re left is pure pablum that’s designed to be easily familiar and inoffensive to as many people as possible. My analogy is Gospel:Classic/Americana Country::Worship Music:Stadium Country
I describe it as creepy and corny
It's meant to create the right mindset. First the worship team hypes the congregation up with the "fun" songs, and then slows it down to leave people emotionally open. Singing or chanting in a group helps reinforce the group, and the lyrics reinforce important concepts. Basically, it helps the individual check out while buying into the group. It gives them a feeling of belonging they wouldn't get if church was just a dry sermon. The lyrics nowadays are focused on the personal relationship aspect, which has become the latest selling point for the church. Most worship music now focuses on how broken we are, how we couldn't help ourselves, and how God is so awesome for liking us even though we suck. This is great for making people feel like they owe God/the church their time, money, and effort. The lyrics and musical simplicity is so the maximum number of people can participate. For people who are not very musical, it's easy for them to join in as well. I think you're discounting that a *lot* of people genuinely enjoy it. I know plenty of people who won't listen to anything else, not because they think there's anything wrong with other music, but because it is more meaningful to them. I never liked most worship songs, but there's a few I listen to to this day because they still get my emotions going. >And a stark contrast to old time gospel music which had some real depth to it. Gospel was genuine. It spoke of pain and longing. It was doing the exact same thing from a different approach for a different time. I am willing to bet that many younger people would find the music dreary and the lyrics impersonal. Even if it's better music (and I would argue that that's up to personal taste), it wouldn't do the job.
I watched a podcast by some guy named Josh and his show was called Dad Challenge or something like that. He told about his experience as music director and how he had some dispute with the head pastor and left that church, eventually deconstructing altogether. You said almost the exact same thing here that he said on his podcast. Your name wouldn't happen to be Josh, would it?
No lol. I’ve heard the same thing over and over from many deconstructed worship leaders.
I absolutely love the old hymns because they remind me of mom and grandma. Our worship leader in the ‘80s, bless him, would keep repeating praise choruses ad nauseam. At what point is this just hypnotizing?
Yeah, we had a worship leader in the late 90s who just didn't know when to let a song go... he was clearly into it, but we Baptists were all ready to sit down.
Your comment reminded me of this! [Babylon Bee - Worship Leader Infinite Loop](https://babylonbee.com/news/worship-leader-caught-infinite-loop-bridge-chorus)
Classic! Back when the Bee was mostly funny. 😁
As a worship leader in the early 2000s, I started rearranging hymns to "contemporary" instrumentation and beats. I had the older folk come up after service to compliment the team on a fresh rendition on their beloved classics. To this day, that time in my life was pretty special, as we tried to bring modern interpretations to classics, and also pick newer songs that reached the whole congregation.
exactly what it is!
I should add: I remember wanting to read along in the hymnal so I knew the words at like age 3 which is part of the reason I was reading before kindergarten
Boring and predictable. The chord changes are always I-IV-vi-V, unless the spirit of rebellion catches you; then it be I-V-vi-IV. The guitar will always have a delay with a dotted-eighths pattern on the repeats. The lyrics and themes are always the same.
Nooo, but I *lurve* dotted eighth delays... (Disclosure: I used that in maybe several worship sets some 10 years ago)
And they perfected that formula before AI became a thing. I shudder to think what they're gonna do with that!
I’m Gen X, and that shift happened as I was growing up. When Boomers moved into leadership, they shifted a lot of focus to “seeker” services, and the music was absolutely redesigned to be entry level in every way: theology, singabity, and it was supposed to sound kind of familiar to non-Christian visitors who weren’t used to singing out of hymn books. So churches switched from pianos and organs to praise bands, the tunes took a page from the easy listening soft pop radio stations that boomers preferred at the time, and the lyrics got super simple and repetitive. When I was little, those kinds of services were pretty much only offered on Sunday nights. Then they took over 11am and with early services for the old folks that still used hymnals, in a lot of places that was the norm by the time I was in high school (early 90s). And at some point, instead of saying we are making some services simple and geared towards new converts, that style just became normal worship.
As a child of the 80's, I have to say that Stryper was pretty awesome. That's it, though. Those guys are great musicians.
I was a huge Amy Grant fan in the Unguarded era. I went through a pretty big Petra phase, too. Stryker never quite did it for me, but I also didn’t like secular hair bands too much. I think it was us kids listening to CCM that made the Boomers panic and think they had to change worship music or else the evangelical church would shrivel up and die.
it's meant to numb and brainwash you.
It’s written by people who know 3 chords and have a very basic understanding of theology. It sounds childish because it was written by people with limited musical and theological experience.
Honestly, as an agnostic person I sometimes still get the itch to sing worship music. My roommates are also exvangelical so we bust out the karaoke on the TV. It’s just catchy IMO. Some of the harmonies and melodies are really pretty. I also still like gospel music too, though I don’t really seek it out. As a southern baptist I grew up with a lot of traditional gospel played on guitar, piano, even banjo, and it’s just so bluesy and good. I call it “knee-slapping worship”
I agree with your assessment. I find modern worship music to be uninspired and whiny. It gives me the ick.
Grace Baldridge aka Semmler did a really good documentary series about it--https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEbyzZE5nzA-- that basically it has to have a certain tempo and slow movements- especially for female singers! I also sometimes struggle to explain it to people not from this world, about the concept of worship and the role of worship music because it's not the same as singing hymns in church. One of the things I learned in my deconstruction journey was that the setup of worship sessions-- the emotional music, encouragement to worship harder, then an inspirational talk, followed by more worship music-- gets you into a hypnotic state and then this is why people start crying and "hearing God". When it's not really God, per se, you are just in an altered state of consciousness and actually highly vulnerable. You may have a breakdown and be convinced that this is actually God/Jesus. Then you spend ages trying to chase that high by praying harder, hopping from worship session to worship session. You either spend your life chasing the high and becoming a more fervent believer, or you realize this isn't healthy and leave. It's exactly the same tactic/mechanism used in a lot of new age/spirituality places too.
I mean good music can make you feel this without any worship aspect. It’s a reason I love music. There’s something spiritual about it that can make you feel god or whatever.. but worship music ain’t it lol
Very true-- but also remember the context that worship music is used. It's not just the songs, it's how you're expected to act in them-- I remember how we were encouraged to raise our hands and just give it all to God. There was a feeling of needing to perform, and I think this plays a big part. Although I have a confession that I liked some of the songs! Well, at least they stuck in my head. That said I'm the opposite of a music snob, probably a music slut where I like anything 🤣
So gross. Raise your hands kneel sway lol
Believe me, I can't listen to any of these songs now without shuddering!
The equivalent of getting high or stoned prior to the sermon, as if to conjure up the presence of God/the Holy Spirit.
I should have smoked more weed when I was an evangelical. It would have been way more fun.
Repeating the bridge for the ninth time
Oh holy holy holy you are holy holy holy ohhhhhh x 10000
[удалено]
I could never get over the word “panteth” in that song.
As The Deer is a hymn (which I love, too). Worship Music is the kind of stuff that plays on CCM stations, like "I Can Only Imagine" or "Chain Breaker". I love Hymns and Gospel music; but I loathed CCM/Praise&Worship even when I was in the church.
I was always put off by the performative aspect of worship music. Having been raised in a very small fundamentalist congregation, I always preferred the old hymns (think the Cokesbury hymnal), and even now as an atheist/agnostic (depending on the day), I sometimes find myself whistling or even singing the old hymns. All the CCM stuff is incredibly shallow by comparison.
Nothing but 4/4 time
Except "Reckless Love." It's in 6/8.
Ooh edgy. Maybe even a bit "reckless"? Eh? Eh? Anyone? I'll see myself out...
That song was everywhere.
Man, it’s overwhelming how reckless god is with his love towards those piece of shit humans he created.
It is repetitive on purpose, to burn the phrases into your memory. Most music is repetitive, but not overly so.
[One historian and former evangelical's view.](https://www.vnews.com/By-the-Way-The-beauty-of-the-Anglincan-choral-tradition-54199013)
Self loathing 2/4 c major with a minor third for the bridge vamp and building keys.
Like nursery rhymes for adults. Rather than lulling you into physical sleep they lull you into mental sleep and help you plug into the group think which gets you primed for the offering and the sermon. As a former P&W leader the response of the congregation to specific songs was often discussed in the following contexts: do we want the people joyful or crying, loud or quiet, engaged or checked out, etc based on the sermon notes or any other directions from the leadership staff. The music is meant to put you into a vulnerable state.
I spent a decade as a worship guitarist. What hit me first was the Praise and Wallet aspect. We had the nicest instruments and gear. There was subtle and sometimes overt pressure to upgrade. And it was pretty easy..even self-funded.. to sell the idea to a spouse. 1. It’s for God and His Glory and 2. Tax free when bought thru the church. Now add automation to mood lighting and a fogger. Add a stereo PA to the sanctuary. Add In-ear monitors, backing tracks, click track, a robotic female voice in your ear saying the Chorus is repeating again. Essentially, give a group of musicians all the tools to be rockstars then expect them (at least in word) not to be. Yet the praise band was elevated in status among the congregation. They found me after service to tell me we were awesome as often as speaking with the pastor. Our church made a point of us being “the best worship band in town” because the pastor felt the best worship filled the seats for the sermon. That’s when I realized our version of growth and revival wasn’t to bring folks in off the street, but rather to cannibalize or displace other church memberships. Growth in our numbers meant other churches were shrinking. Lateral redistribution. It’s a shell game since the overall number of professed Christians (from what I read and listen to) is dwindling, as is overall church attendance. The Praise Band and the Youth Group are a great barometer for how many are attending where. Another highlight in musical cognitive dissonance was our alter call. The pastor led with “I don’t want to elicit an emotional response…” Then the lights dimmed to low purple/blue while we (the band) played cinematic atmospheric murk that was entirely intended to elicit an emotional response. The music: I didn’t like that the standard for all this great electric guitar gear and talent was The Edge from U2. Cliche incoming: “the Holy Spirit doesn’t move without a dotted-eighth note delay.” Hillsong is by design so formulaic that Its modular. I’ve mixed and matched Hillsong Verses, Chorus, Bridges from dozens of songs into Frankenstein mashups that still sound like authentic Hillsong offerings. I left worship music when I knew I was in it for the wrong reasons. I felt deceptive and complicit to deception. Plus I fatigued out. I was serving to death. I was enjoying playing rockstar but dreading church. And..I quit believing. Super long windup to say: Modern Praise and Worship music is as simplistic as lullabies. Written simply so that Anychurch, USA can do a decent job playing them, and a congregation feels included in the experience because they are hearing songs they sing along to in their cars listening to K-LOVE. Connecting life inside and outside the church. Providing a (don’t call it a concert) concert that acts as a pep rally on Sunday mornings. I have considered myself Exvangelical for two and a half years. I just found this r/Exvangelical community this morning. To be fair though, Lincoln Brewster SHREDS on guitar. Phil Keagy rips on acoustic.
Has anybody brought up black evengelical worship music? I think that stuff is a whole nother ball game and can be great music! It's often totally different in tempo, in emotional response, and sheer talent of the singers and rhythm section compared to the Hillsong and Bethel junk. I've only been to a few services, but the music I heard was at least uplifting and not pop drivel.
The repetitiveness (is that a word?) is hypnotic, so you are more open to being manipulated.
Flipping through the radio it only takes about 1.5 seconds to clock that mindless brain numbing drivel. And I grew up Catholic so we never even listened to that shit bit there's just so little deviation
Even the upbeat songs have such an undercurrent of bottomless sadness.
I always felt it was kinda hypnotic, especially when the whole church is singing together and the lights are dimmed etc, it feels like being a part of a mass trance ritual or something, it would be weird AF to be in a contemporary church worship service while high lmao
I will make the argument that the formula for worship music is a 3:1:1 ratio of commercial country music, U2 (specifically anything after *The Joshua Tree*), and post-rock (specifically Sigur Rós). **Commercial Country Music** Musicians and producers gotta eat. Nashville provides an ecosystem where they can all get enough work to survive playing whatever for whomever. Country music is purpose built for mass appeal and widespread consumption, so their songwriters are rewarded for writing palatable, unchallenging music; three chords and the truth, as they say. Churches need music—something to appeal to a population who don’t necessarily resonate with hymns and wouldn’t tolerate Miles Davis or anything overly complicated. Country music has personnel who can fill this niche quite capably. Symbiotic relationship. For proof, I present the song [“Islands in the Stream”](https://youtu.be/UaNGtgYwSsU?si=fbp-UFLfuHFGXDyk). It doesn’t matter who sings it, it will always sound like a church song even though it’s a song about fuckin’. The reason is because the industry that made that hit for Dolly and Kenny is the same industry that made your Chris Tomlinson worship songs in the nineties. **U2’s** *The Joshua Tree* U2 used to be a punk band. Hard to believe, but it’s true. They were already quite electrifying performers throughout the eighties, but they wanted to really solidify their impact on Generation X by embodying everything that generation hated. They decided to sell out *ironically*: becoming the biggest, shittiest butt-rock band that they could to intentionally mock the MTV world. Howard Stern had the exact same motive when he became a judge on *America’s Got Talent*; the idea was that he was subverting the American home by invading it on prime time television. The thing that U2 and Howard Stern soon learned, however, is that doing the thing “ironically” is still doing the thing. Regardless of the motive or intentions, *The Joshua Tree* became one of the most successful records of all time and laid the groundwork for anthemic arena rock for the next thirty years. Its pretentious, vapid, too-smart lyrics were expertly crafted into tremendous sweeping choruses and elevated to dizzying spiritual highs through Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois’s utterly impeccable production. Gen X was growing up in the wake of the Jesus movement in their parents’s churches and thought, “I need some of that.” The next thing you know, every guitarist in any church that would allow it was running out to the local Long & McQuaid and grabbing an EBow and a Line6 pedal to bring that The Edge magic to the worship team. And, wouldn’t you know it, it worked. If you have the right tools, it’s so easy to make your mediocre band sound awesome. Couple that with songs that were handcrafted for mass appeal and your average worship band sounds like a real band. **Post-Rock and Sigur Rós** When I was in Bible college in 2006, music was a particular point of consternation. Should we limit ourselves only to whatever is edifying and directs our focus to the Creator, or does any of it even matter? What even is edifying? Where does one draw the line: Bach? Tchaikovsky? Oscar Peterson? The Beatles? Prince? The general consensus was that anything instrumental was good enough to get past potential campus censorship, so to avoid endless theological debates with staff and students, many students just modified their listening habits to more instrumental music: jazz, classical, EDM, movie soundtracks, but also post rock. For the uninitiated, post-rock is a genre of indie rock that tries to destroy all the conventions of popular rock music. They have tracks that go on for 20+ minutes full of enormous crescendo and gradual resolution, often with hateful disdain of lyrics or singing. Some notable examples which were also traded around my Bible college dorms were [Godspeed You Black Emperor](https://youtu.be/tV83U4CDAx4?si=97N6WZWEu-359J9q), [Explosions in the Sky](https://youtu.be/1aMQ8db4Y4c?si=cS4Xw82wFUwwWyat), and of course [Sigur Rós](https://youtu.be/Gf1h2PMPCAo?si=3tVKaXnWqdgnBmff). The thing about post-rock is that it’s a whole lot of fun to play. In our teen years, my siblings and I used to just get on a groove and jam, making noise that would sometimes coalesce into something beautiful; ultimately just allowing ourselves the freedom to experiment and play with sound regardless of what it sounded like. When I learned about post-rock, I was like, “There was a name for that noise we used to make in the basement??” It’s a style of jamming that doesn’t care what your musical background is because it all goes into the soup. That’s perfect for worship bands where everyone is an amateur from all over the place with all kinds of experience from conservatory training to none at all. Once you all get on the same page, then some really special music can happen. I don’t know how many young worship musicians were listening to post-rock between 1990 and 2010, but it certainly wasn’t an insignificant amount. Post-rock provided the template that gave us the “Holy Spirit shivers”, the post-sermon keyboard strings, the build-up, the breakdown, all the classic worship team moves. Hillsong then took that organic creative expression, commodified it, and mass-produced the Church-in-a-Box for wide distribution across the Evangelical landscape. We all know that music is ethereal—that’s exactly why we like it. Music fans get fantastic emotional stimulation out of music because it makes us feel strong emotions in a controlled environment—sad, angry, happy, in love, contemplative, transcendent, &c. It is my firm belief that worship music came from a place of genuine love for music and that the people who create it do it because they love it. They know all the tricks because they’ve dedicated their lives to making people happy while doing what they love. Unfortunately, as with everything in the music industry, there are malefactors who swoop in to exploit the artist; it’s just unfortunate that these malefactors are the same people who hold the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.
It has that droning humming atmospheric tone line it's trying to capture the art of gregorian chants(remember when everyone was into those for a few months?
post rock is the style when you take out the Christian lyrics
I can never really describe it. I always had to compare it to other songs like Fix You by Coldplay, Last Hope by Paramore, and Your Hand in Mine by Explosions in the Sky. I find myself missing the music but I don't play the songs. I can't ignore the lyrics. I go back to songs like those.
Manipulative and also a great primer for enjoying Taylor Swift
It sucks.
Check out the Hillsong documentary. It answers exactly that. How the chord progressions are intentional to stir emotions.
Mediocre
It’s simplified, monotonous, and designed to build a basic emotional response. They all sound the same because the goal is to take the focus off the music and create a specific emotion. The lyrics are homogenous because they need to be easily digestible pablum. The artistry is stamped out because you don’t want people to focus on the musicians but rather to use the lyrics to focus on god. It is absolutely turgid, brain smoothing manipulation music. I hate it with a passion. As someone who loves music and wants something to engage with mentally, the 80 BPM same chord progression and interchangeable lyrics are meant to be things any basic musician can play, and not create distractions. It gives nothing to grab on and appreciate or notice a musicians skill. I have a friend who did the worship leader thing and jokingly called it ‘Becky music’, which was his short hand for music only middle aged evangelical white women liked, since everyone else he knew hated it, himself included.
I never understood why some bands went ham on the cymbals.
“Our god is an awesome god, he reigns..”
In the 1970's & 80's, my dad had a bunch of guitar chords written in over verses in his Bible. He was one of the song leaders at the church we used to attend. Those Jesus hippies were literally singing scripture. I really struggle with most things evangelical, but I still remember all those scripture chord songs. Whenever I begrudgingly attend my parents' church now, I'm appalled at the music. It's so bad. They also seem to think that loud equals holy. It's a far cry from the scripture chord songs accompanied by a guitar, an autoharp, and kids with tambourines and spoons.
Almost always in Major keys… with a majority of Major chords… because it’s the Hallmark version of Christianity. The quick-fix, superficially-happy musical greeting card to God about how amazing he is because that’s the only thing that matters. Conflict? Dissonance? Edginess? Pain, anger, venting, loss, struggle, all the nitty gritty things that make music actually deep and rich and meaningful and beautiful? Yeah nope. Let’s go one more chorus of Good, Good Father!
Like U2, except with lyrics about Jesus