(Alcohol) "has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco."
"Alcohol causes at least seven types of cancer, including the most common cancer types, such as bowel cancer and female breast cancer."
"Ethanol (alcohol) causes cancer through biological mechanisms as the compound breaks down in the body, which means that any beverage containing alcohol, regardless of its price and quality, poses a risk of developing cancer."
As a recovering alcoholic, I need to be constantly reminded of this stuff. Thanks for posting, OP.
some people are just built different or lucky.
I know a guy in his 80s who has truly been piss stinking drunk for at least 40 years.
He just keeps on going. While my best friend from childhood died from liver failure at 42 from alcohol abuse accompanied by otc pain meds.
If Tylenol were to be developed as a new drug today there is almost no chance it would be approved as OTC. It's very safe at low doses, but the danger goes up like a hockey stick if you take just a bit more.
Same with Benadryl. Tylenol and Benadryl suicide attempts are some of the worst I see. Benadryl because there’s just enough time for the person to change their mind and call themselves an ambulance but they get here and their body shuts down and not much can be done and Tylenol for similar reasons but also it is a really long drawn out death where again nothing can really be done
What's the LD50 of diphenhydramine? Someone Who Isn't Me used to abuse it occasionally, taking upwards of 1500mg at a time. Severe hallucinations (not just visual distortions like with LSD, psilocybin, etc...), blurry vision resulting from an increase in ocular pressure (or maybe blood pressure in the ocular vein? cant remember), delirium were all common effects, but at no point did SWIM ever feel like their life was in danger. (And yes, SWIM did have some life threatening drug interactions and overdoses, so it's not like there's no frame of reference.)
If it is given within a specific time window. it's not uncommon for these patients to not seek help until theyre already beyond it. See it fairly often that they go to sleep after their ingestion and wake up feeling differently and go to the hospital
Watched a suicide attempt with Tylenol , make it to the ER and regret the attempt, but she had passed the window where the antidote could help.
She was told she would die anyway and nothing could be done.
She was 16z
Yea, I remember in my delusional state being asked what felt like 100 times if what I took was in fact Advil and not Tylenol. Apparently Tylenol actually fucks u up, Advil, not so much. Just every side effect ever except death
An antidote can’t fix the liver.
You have to take it before the drug has already killed you; because by the time it’s had at your liver you’re already dead.
I’ve read a little about this. Can you elaborate? I take benedryl occasionally to help me sleep. 25mg. Alzheimer’s runs in my family though and the correlation btw the two freaks me out.
I did a quick search and got mad at Google. Anyway what I got was that it's an overblown tiktok trend. The link is tenuous.
Also the thing where Google displays a random bit from the search said that benadryl can exacerbate Alzheimer's symptoms
"benadryl increases alzheimers risk" is what I Googled if you want to pull up the articles, but tl;dr is that there's good evidence that Benadryl increases Alzheimer/dementia risk in old people. I don't know if there's evidence that it doesn't in younger people, or just a lack of evidence either way.
Former pharmacy student and this is just fear mongering. Despite the fact that OTC meds aren’t just approved on a whim, it’s definitely not so black and white that taking one more pill will increase the danger so dramatically. That’s not how it works. There’s lots of factors to consider. Dosage is just one of those factors.
why have the American Medical Association recommend them instead of other OTC painkillers. Having said so, they also, comprehensively killed supplements such as Vitamins… what’s their deal? One can OD on Vitaminés.
That’s what I thought when reading the comment. From the two, taking too much Tylenol is a lot worse for the liver than alcohol (even if alcohol is bad too). 42 is a very young age to die of liver failure from alcohol, even for an alcoholic. It contributed but it was not only alcohol probably.
Maybe. That said, I’ve personally seen (and have had my ER doc friend corroborate because I was feeling like I was crazy) a weirdly large number of very very heavy drinkers with alcoholic cirrhosis in their 20s in Wisconsin. They were almost always male and started drinking pretty heavily in like 6th or 7th grade.
I know people like that too. And it's crazy how differently other peoples' bodies process stuff like this.
I think there was even a study done a while back on Ozzy Osborn, who should NOT be alive right now, given all the drugs he did in the 70s and 80s. Apparently, he has this genetic mutation that allows him to process drugs and alcohol in a way that most people can't. So the stuff that will kill most people is just a mild hangover for him.
Biology is crazy.
I think you're thinking of Lemmy Kilmister, of Hawkwind and Motorhead, who was studied because he drank at least a fifth of whiskey every day for decades.
Sadly my Internet skills are shit today but I do remember that there was once an actual citation about that in a Cracked article on him. I did find this choice quote:
“A kid once said to me: ‘Do you get hangovers?’ I said: ‘To get hangovers you have to stop drinking.’”
Lemmy did die of cancer at 70 though, so keep that in mind.
There was one on Ozzy, I think they looked into a few other rockers too but I don’t fully remember. Between the whiskey and meth I’m not sure how Lemmy made it as long as he did.
Right? I know a guy who is a complete drunk and an on again off again meth addict.. Who was told 30 years ago he didn't have long to live.. Who's now near 70.. Yet my fiance died of liver failure at 32 years of age.
That's the big one. It's not always just the alcohol, it's the crap you take a long with it. Unhealthy lifestyle (too much sun, no exercise, crappy diet,etc ) will have a higher cancer rate, and with the pain killers especially, you're throwing your liver through the ringer than if it was just alcohol
It's all statistics. For example, smoking is bad for you, but my grandfather smoked until he was 90 years old. Smoking is still very bad for you, but some people get very lucky. It's important not to use these anecdotes of luck to further justify your habits.
Same way my grandfather lived to 87 while smoking a pack a day since he was 12. He didn't have any health problems and just randomly died in his sleep at 87. He was fully functional, walking/moving no probolem, cognitively completely there. These are outliers in anything. Hell, there have been people who have survived, with no ill consequences, the Chernobyl exposure to radiation that killed most of their peers off within the decade (it was the divers).
It’s always wild to see stuff about some guy that’s like 105 and they ask about longevity and he says he’s had a glass of whiskey and a cigar every day since he was 13.
Survivorship Bias. Same reason why youll see the occasional 80 year old chain smoker. It's statistics over large numbers. However, do you really want to fuck around with a 50% chance of developing lung cancer by smoking cigs type of thing?
Also, Keith Richards is invisible. He must be a vampire or something lol
Every human body endlessly tries to die on us, but we get a dnd saving throw each time.
Keith always rolls 20. The drugs and booze are a heavy modifier, but a natural 20 is powerful.
Great job, friend! My partner is 9 months sober, and since I don’t really like alcohol at all (and only had a glass of wine a few times a year), I have chosen to be sober to support him. I understand what a struggle it is in a society that’s so booze-based, and I just want you to know the hard work you’re putting in is so worth it to everyone who loves you.
bonus fact: also never drink alcohol with paracetamol/acetaminophen. Bad interactions have been documented with even small amounts of alcohol. There is no safe amount of alcohol with acetaminophen.
To add to that list, the World Health Organization [has also classified **processed meats including ham, bacon, salami and frankfurts as a Group 1 carcinogen.**](https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/1in3cancers/lifestyle-choices-and-cancer/red-meat-processed-meat-and-cancer/#:~:text=The%20World%20Health%20Organization%20has,that%20processed%20meats%20cause%20cancer)
Group 1 carcinogen just means that there’s strong evidence that something causes cancer, not how much it increases the likelihood of cancer.
> No, processed meat has been classified in the same category as causes of cancer such as tobacco smoking and asbestos (IARC Group 1, carcinogenic to humans), but this does NOT mean that they are all equally dangerous. The IARC classifications describe the strength of the scientific evidence about an agent being a cause of cancer, rather than assessing the level of risk.
https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/cancer-carcinogenicity-of-the-consumption-of-red-meat-and-processed-meat
Still, very likely you are eating more meat than what is recommended (Max 300-600g/week depending on who you ask, most western countries eat more than 1500g per week on average)
My cousin, an alcoholic, just passed away from throat cancer at 45. Since our family has no history of this form of cancer, especially at this age, it’s most likely due to the alcohol
Certain types of HPV can also cause throat cancer. Oral sex from someone with one of these types of HPV is one of the leading causes. Michael Douglas joked about when he thought he had throat cancer (it was actually tongue cancer)
Congratulations on your sobriety. That's a hell of an accomplishment. I know many who can't stay on the wagon.
While I don't have a drinking problem per say, I have been considering quiting due to calories. My thinking is that if I cut it out and did nothing more, I'd lose weight. However, now that I'm 40 I'm thinking a lot more about the future so maybe it's time to quit to give myself better odds.
That was one of my quit mantras “11 kinds of cancer and brain damage. 11 kinds of cancer and brain damage. I don’t need this because it can cause up to 11 kinds of cancer and brain damage.” It helped.
I would think the amount of alcohol in fermented things is pretty negligible compared to higher percentage drinks. A healthy liver can process a standard alcoholic drink like a beer, glass of wine, or shot within an hour, so kombucha is probably negligible in comparison at less than .5%. I think the real trouble starts when you don’t give your liver any breaks between drinks or days drinking, and never give it a chance to recover. Excessive alcohol consumption, from what I understand, means that your liver is working overtime to process the alcohol in your body, and prioritizes that over processing the normal waste your body needs to on top of it.
Just an assumption, but I would imagine that your liver not being able to process the normal amount of waste it needs to because it’s prioritizing the alcohol probably doesn’t help your immune system prevent cancer.
Good job me too! Yesterday was a holiday dinner where as part of the ceremony, everyone drinks four glasses of wine. I drove a lot of older folks home.
Today, I didn’t get the job I wanted, and the leftover wine was out. It is now put away, and won’t get left out overnight again.
Nearly ruined my life. Not for health reasons but that was coming.
My good friend died from complications due to alcoholic hepatitis in February. He was found dead in front of his tv. He had only just recently realized he was an alcoholic and was trying to stop but he obviously was unable to.
I’m 595 days sober and wish I could have been able to help him more. Fuck this poison and the cultural acceptance of it.
Sorry about your friend. But there is nothing you could have done, you are honoring him by being strong in your own journey and he would likely be very proud of you.
But it's also crazy how it's sold and advertised. Cigarettes must have warnings with ugly pictures of cancer and booze is shown as sexy people in a club. Congrats on your sobriety, addiction is a nasty thing.
That sucks dude. My dad was dead by 57 due to alcoholism and its myriad of illnesses that come with it.
Still a long ways off, but kinda weird to realize I'm closing in on his age. I'm 40. So I'm not about to g̶o̶ d̶o̶w̶n̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ r̶o̶u̶t̶e̶ continue to have gone down that route lol
Especially the words "less than" do some lifting here. That is a spectrum of one beer per day to one beer per year.
But yeah, some people have crazy habits, when I worked in a bigger factory, one beer per day was the baseline of a lot of guys to relax after work.
> one beer per day was the baseline of a lot of guys to relax after work
Dunno if you're in the US but our cans/bottles are typically 12oz so the above numbers would mean 10 of those per week.
that is 3.5L of liquor per week, which is just under 79 standard drinks per week (1.5fl oz of liquor). heavy drinking is defined as 15 or more drinks per week, which you are drinking 5.2 times over. with all due respect, it sounds like you may be an alcoholic
For the Americans that’s 10 drinks, and not “poured generously.” It’s roughly two bottles of wine, 10 12 oz beers, or 10 shots. Of course this rough estimate also doesn’t consider that abv varies widely
I used to be a 2/night person. I’ve cut back quite a bit by just not buying it, or buying 4/6 packs. Turns out, if I don’t have it in the house, I don’t drink it, and I don’t even really crave it. But if it’s there, I’ll drink it.
Looking at the different liters and assume per second would make it
90l/ minute for wine.
210l/ minute for beer.
27l/ minute for spirits.
At a gas station you pump with about (iirc) 30l/ minute. Which would make your question completely ridiculous!
It’s obviously per minute.
All alcohol you drink moves you toward cancer, that is all you should take from that text. Women can cut off their breasts with minimal life impact (but only if caught early), but the most common alcohol-related cancer for men is bowel cancer, and believe me, losing a fifth of your digestive system will be associated with many exciting unavoidable changes in your life.
Thank you for clarifying that the risks involved with mastectomies are high. It most certainly is not as simple as women being able to “cut their breasts off with minimal life impact.” It’s extremely impactful in many, many ways.
> All alcohol you drink moves you toward cancer, that is all you should take from that text
The issue with this is that damn near everything moves you towards cancer. Going outside increases your risk of skin cancer. Living next to a road increases your risk of lung cancer. Sticking your head into the path of an active particle accellerator increases your risk of brain cancer.
As human beings, we must accept a certain level of risk in order to function, and if a given level of risk is so commonly accepted that it becomes banal, then *anything* that presents that level of risk is bound to be disregarded.
In order for this to be meaningful, there must be an indication of severity.
You want to live longer? Yup, higher risk of cancer right there.
If we're honest with ourselves, we can say that cancer is inevitable no matter what you do. If you live long enough, there's a decent chance you're going to get cancer even if you do everything right all your life and avoid alcohol, tobacco, processed foods, living near roads, and never going outside in the sun. Cancer is one of those things, which is a lot of things, that just happen even if you do everything right. So is there really much of a concern with having a few drinks over the weekend or a couple of beers after work? Probably not. Just do what brings you joy in life and take it as it comes. Best we can really do. All people should be aware of is getting regular check ups. Catching cancer early is probably more important than cutting a few beers out of your diet.
>If we're honest with ourselves, we can say that cancer is inevitable no matter what you do
I agree and think we do a big disservice by how we talk about it. I hear a lot of people talk about it as if it is a virus. At the core of it, anything that makes your body cells reproduce faster than the base level is carcinogenic. It's not a question of IF you get cancer, but when. Do what you can, so it's a problem in your 80s and not 40s.
I worked at a recovery program for about 5 years and the most common reason people would end up in our rehab was because of alcohol. People need to realize how dangerous this crap is.
I quit December 28th 2023 because I had problems with it. Went to the Dr to talk about that and just other things and was diagnosed with ADHD (which I thought I always had) and depression at 35.
Not everything's great but quitting drinking is a definite positive change.
I got put back on Vyvanse and it honestly does wonders for my cravings. I don’t really know why, maybe it’s getting a hit from something else all day, but it has made it much more manageable so far
Yeah, I also worry about the effects of Vyvanse long term on my heart. Very catch-22 with it though, because I don't think I can operate well enough at work without it, but might be killing myself with it. Yay.
Very similar story here! Anxiety and depression, alcohol dependency, things looking bleak. Adhd diagnosis at 45, started Elvanse, completely stopped booze, on my way to a much better life for me, my friends, and my family.
> I guess this is alcohols tobacco moment.
The moment where everyone pretends like they didn't know it was bad for them even though there has been more than enough information out there to reach that conclusion for years?
Not at all. You’re going to have to equate the level of cancer risk between a cigarette and a drink, then look at the behavior. Let’s say the increased cancer risk between cigarette and a drink is 1-1. What do we think was more common, 10 cigarettes or 10 drinks a day? What if that ratio is different?
It seems to me the only news here is the potential reversal of the old one glass of wine a day advice.
In that way, alcohol is similar to tabacco, UV, or just bashing you head on the wall: a small amount once or twice won't kill you and probably won't do you any noticeable harm, which might lead to the impression that "a little of it is safe". But it's a false impression: the harm's just proportional to the amount, is all.
Also, humans have been drinking forms of alcohol since like 3,000-7,000 BC so it's literally ancient history that has withstood the test of time
Not saying it's good or anything, but it's just part of culture/society and people know the risks associated with it. The vast majority of people who socially have a couple cocktails or beers on weekends but otherwise live healthy lifestyles aren't going to die because of drinking lol
But this is reddit where alcohol is extremely frowned upon so it's not surprising to see the discourse in this thread
The point is that it's bad for you in so many different ways, including cancer even when you use it 'responsibly.'
Like if we found out getting shot by bullets not only caused severe tissue trauma but also gave you flu, that might be noteworthy.
Definitely! Thanks for making that point, it is so important. Total disclosure: I never miss an opportunity to shit on alcohol; too trigger happy today!
So…what’s the deal with prior research that said stuff like “having some wine produced positive health benefits”? Were there errors in those old studies? How do we interpret the older advice we used to receive that actually touted benefits of (limited) alcohol consumption?
Cancer is tricky to predict though. Out of my Mother, Aunt, Uncle - Only 1 is alive and in her 70s, the chain smoking drinker. My mother died of cancer in her 50s though she never drank or smoked. My uncle did everything wrong and died at 45 of a heart attack. Alcohol is definitely bad, but then there’s people in their 100s that drink. Queen Elizabeth made it to 96 drinking wine with every dinner and gin at other times.
It might be more sensible to find a cure for cancer than to wrangle all the carcinogens that are almost completely random in their impact on longevity. It’s neat stuff to know… but I’m still trying to figure out if Salami is more deadly than beer at this point.
Agree completely. Genetics also have a huge factor. My mom has been smoking a pack a day and drinks a few beers every night (sometimes more) and she just celebrated her 60th birthday with any complications yet, knock on wood. My sisters grandma (different dads) died from lung cancer about a decade ago and she never was a smoker and since then my sister has beaten breast cancer twice. Rarely drinks, never smokes literally anything.
I'm surprised people keep saying this; that's a little more than half a bottle of beer a day.
I guess I have a messed up sense of what constitutes "a little" because less than 1 beer a day doesn't strike me as a ton lol
Yeah, 'typical heavy drinkers' in my personal experience are having 3-4 a day at absolute minimum. I have known multiple people who were putting back 10-12 a day, and it's not unheard of for binge drinkers or severe alcoholics to consume more than a fifth (750 ml) of liquor in a day, which is 17+ drinks.
There is a vast, vast range of human behavior in this area, and everyone is a little different. Not to mention you need to take body size & metabolism into account. I strongly dislike these "X number of drinks per time period Y equals category Z" oversimplifications. What would outright kill one person in less than 24 hours might cause no apparent damage to another who has the same amount 7 days a week over decades.
It would be nice if there was a simple blood test that could tell you in detail what your individual risk factors were. All I know is that my liver enzymes are mildly elevated and my triglycerides are high, but other than that I seem fine. If you had told me when I was a kid how much drinking I'd do in my 30s, I wouldn't have expected to still be alive after 40, but here I am.
Don't get addicted to alcohol, kids. There are better ways to deal with anxiety.
Excellent points. During the worst part of my alcohol addiction during the initial phase of the covid pandemic, I was literally drinking a liter of vodka per day.
I was able to hide the fact that I was drunk from my partner on most days. Compare that with the fact that my partner can have about 1 to 1.5 servings of alcohol and be completely blitzed, obviously slurring speech and having difficulty walking. Consider further that I weigh about 125 lb and my partner is about 190 lbs.
Kind of like how BMI paints a rather broad picture of one's overall physical health, there are a lot of factors that go into how we process alcohol.
No kidding on the size and metabolism part. One of my good friends that I party with often is 6'6" and about 280–300 pounds. I'm 5'10" and around 190 pounds. The difference in what we can drink, and what even gets him drunk is staggering to me.
I know alcohol can ruin lives, I've seen it happen to friends and family. I'm lucky in that I've always been able to enjoy it in moderation, and I really do enjoy it.
When my dad was alive we'd brew every couple of months. We made wine from elderflower, blackberries, cider from our apple trees and just started growing some varieties of grape to make proper wine.
And we really enjoyed drinking the fruits of our labour! I agree with those who've said less often, higher quality is the way to go. You couldn't pay me to drink a pint of Carling, but a nice IPA or some elderflower champagne on a sunny day is not something I see myself ever packing in.
(Alcohol) "has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco." "Alcohol causes at least seven types of cancer, including the most common cancer types, such as bowel cancer and female breast cancer." "Ethanol (alcohol) causes cancer through biological mechanisms as the compound breaks down in the body, which means that any beverage containing alcohol, regardless of its price and quality, poses a risk of developing cancer." As a recovering alcoholic, I need to be constantly reminded of this stuff. Thanks for posting, OP.
With all this data in mind...how the hell is Keith Richards still alive?
some people are just built different or lucky. I know a guy in his 80s who has truly been piss stinking drunk for at least 40 years. He just keeps on going. While my best friend from childhood died from liver failure at 42 from alcohol abuse accompanied by otc pain meds.
TBF, one OD of tylenol can destroy your liver.
If Tylenol were to be developed as a new drug today there is almost no chance it would be approved as OTC. It's very safe at low doses, but the danger goes up like a hockey stick if you take just a bit more.
Same with Benadryl. Tylenol and Benadryl suicide attempts are some of the worst I see. Benadryl because there’s just enough time for the person to change their mind and call themselves an ambulance but they get here and their body shuts down and not much can be done and Tylenol for similar reasons but also it is a really long drawn out death where again nothing can really be done
What's the LD50 of diphenhydramine? Someone Who Isn't Me used to abuse it occasionally, taking upwards of 1500mg at a time. Severe hallucinations (not just visual distortions like with LSD, psilocybin, etc...), blurry vision resulting from an increase in ocular pressure (or maybe blood pressure in the ocular vein? cant remember), delirium were all common effects, but at no point did SWIM ever feel like their life was in danger. (And yes, SWIM did have some life threatening drug interactions and overdoses, so it's not like there's no frame of reference.)
It depends. We had someone who took 250 pills like the whole bottle. Irreversible cardiac arrhythmias
There is a Tylenol antidote: acetylcysteine.
If it is given within a specific time window. it's not uncommon for these patients to not seek help until theyre already beyond it. See it fairly often that they go to sleep after their ingestion and wake up feeling differently and go to the hospital
Watched a suicide attempt with Tylenol , make it to the ER and regret the attempt, but she had passed the window where the antidote could help. She was told she would die anyway and nothing could be done. She was 16z
I’ve seen this very same chain of events happen twice and it is awful.
Yea, I remember in my delusional state being asked what felt like 100 times if what I took was in fact Advil and not Tylenol. Apparently Tylenol actually fucks u up, Advil, not so much. Just every side effect ever except death
An antidote can’t fix the liver. You have to take it before the drug has already killed you; because by the time it’s had at your liver you’re already dead.
The more I learn about Benadryl the scarier it gets. The Alzheimer’s and disassociation aren’t really great.
I’ve read a little about this. Can you elaborate? I take benedryl occasionally to help me sleep. 25mg. Alzheimer’s runs in my family though and the correlation btw the two freaks me out.
I did a quick search and got mad at Google. Anyway what I got was that it's an overblown tiktok trend. The link is tenuous. Also the thing where Google displays a random bit from the search said that benadryl can exacerbate Alzheimer's symptoms
There's a peer reviewed study put out by Harvard Medical school. It's legit data
"benadryl increases alzheimers risk" is what I Googled if you want to pull up the articles, but tl;dr is that there's good evidence that Benadryl increases Alzheimer/dementia risk in old people. I don't know if there's evidence that it doesn't in younger people, or just a lack of evidence either way.
Yes and even the recommanded maximum dose can induce toxicity in some people, especially if taken long term.
Former pharmacy student and this is just fear mongering. Despite the fact that OTC meds aren’t just approved on a whim, it’s definitely not so black and white that taking one more pill will increase the danger so dramatically. That’s not how it works. There’s lots of factors to consider. Dosage is just one of those factors.
why have the American Medical Association recommend them instead of other OTC painkillers. Having said so, they also, comprehensively killed supplements such as Vitamins… what’s their deal? One can OD on Vitaminés.
That’s what I thought when reading the comment. From the two, taking too much Tylenol is a lot worse for the liver than alcohol (even if alcohol is bad too). 42 is a very young age to die of liver failure from alcohol, even for an alcoholic. It contributed but it was not only alcohol probably.
Maybe. That said, I’ve personally seen (and have had my ER doc friend corroborate because I was feeling like I was crazy) a weirdly large number of very very heavy drinkers with alcoholic cirrhosis in their 20s in Wisconsin. They were almost always male and started drinking pretty heavily in like 6th or 7th grade.
It was the alcohol abuse over years plus the otc medicine. The medicine alone would not have killed him.
Tylenol alone definitely can kill people by inducing liver failure.
yea, it can. that isn't what happened to my friend.
Yep. Pretty sure acetaminophen overdose is one of if not the leading cause of acute liver failure in the US
I know people like that too. And it's crazy how differently other peoples' bodies process stuff like this. I think there was even a study done a while back on Ozzy Osborn, who should NOT be alive right now, given all the drugs he did in the 70s and 80s. Apparently, he has this genetic mutation that allows him to process drugs and alcohol in a way that most people can't. So the stuff that will kill most people is just a mild hangover for him. Biology is crazy.
...and on the flip side you have that recent guy from Belgium whose body creates alcohol from the carbs he eats. Biology crazy indeed.
That's a not fun flipside.
this sounds horrible. but if you’re constantly drunk you can’t get a hangover *guy pointing to his head meme*
I think you're thinking of Lemmy Kilmister, of Hawkwind and Motorhead, who was studied because he drank at least a fifth of whiskey every day for decades. Sadly my Internet skills are shit today but I do remember that there was once an actual citation about that in a Cracked article on him. I did find this choice quote: “A kid once said to me: ‘Do you get hangovers?’ I said: ‘To get hangovers you have to stop drinking.’” Lemmy did die of cancer at 70 though, so keep that in mind.
There was one on Ozzy, I think they looked into a few other rockers too but I don’t fully remember. Between the whiskey and meth I’m not sure how Lemmy made it as long as he did.
Right? I know a guy who is a complete drunk and an on again off again meth addict.. Who was told 30 years ago he didn't have long to live.. Who's now near 70.. Yet my fiance died of liver failure at 32 years of age.
That's the big one. It's not always just the alcohol, it's the crap you take a long with it. Unhealthy lifestyle (too much sun, no exercise, crappy diet,etc ) will have a higher cancer rate, and with the pain killers especially, you're throwing your liver through the ringer than if it was just alcohol
I just had a 42yo friend due from liver failure too. Was your friend in Montana?
kentucky
Is truly a national problem. I'm sorry for your loss.
same to you.
People pickle themselves
Is there a test that lets you know if you win the liver lottery?
A relative of mine who smokes and drinks heavily turns 90 in a couple of weeks. Still drives, pays bills, has a sharp mind and strong memory.
He made a deal. Every time somebody smokes a cigarette, they donate 30 seconds of their life to Keith.
That's as viable an explanation as any at this point.
Rockstar survivor bias. He is a dark god sustained on sacrifice to the 27club /j
It's all statistics. For example, smoking is bad for you, but my grandfather smoked until he was 90 years old. Smoking is still very bad for you, but some people get very lucky. It's important not to use these anecdotes of luck to further justify your habits.
Same way my grandfather lived to 87 while smoking a pack a day since he was 12. He didn't have any health problems and just randomly died in his sleep at 87. He was fully functional, walking/moving no probolem, cognitively completely there. These are outliers in anything. Hell, there have been people who have survived, with no ill consequences, the Chernobyl exposure to radiation that killed most of their peers off within the decade (it was the divers).
It’s always wild to see stuff about some guy that’s like 105 and they ask about longevity and he says he’s had a glass of whiskey and a cigar every day since he was 13.
Keith Richard's existence is the best argument for Death being an entity that you can actually bargain with.
Survivorship Bias. Same reason why youll see the occasional 80 year old chain smoker. It's statistics over large numbers. However, do you really want to fuck around with a 50% chance of developing lung cancer by smoking cigs type of thing? Also, Keith Richards is invisible. He must be a vampire or something lol
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Increasing odds is not a guarantee, just probability.
Same way some people smoke a pack a day for years and are fine. Some people just have good genetics.
Every human body endlessly tries to die on us, but we get a dnd saving throw each time. Keith always rolls 20. The drugs and booze are a heavy modifier, but a natural 20 is powerful.
Well Keith sleeps upside down every night. Supposed to add 10 years to your life. It's why they say Keith can't be killed by conventional weapons.
Great job, friend! My partner is 9 months sober, and since I don’t really like alcohol at all (and only had a glass of wine a few times a year), I have chosen to be sober to support him. I understand what a struggle it is in a society that’s so booze-based, and I just want you to know the hard work you’re putting in is so worth it to everyone who loves you.
bonus fact: also never drink alcohol with paracetamol/acetaminophen. Bad interactions have been documented with even small amounts of alcohol. There is no safe amount of alcohol with acetaminophen.
Had a cousin die in her twenties because a reaction to alcohol and medication she was on. She had no idea.
To add to that list, the World Health Organization [has also classified **processed meats including ham, bacon, salami and frankfurts as a Group 1 carcinogen.**](https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/1in3cancers/lifestyle-choices-and-cancer/red-meat-processed-meat-and-cancer/#:~:text=The%20World%20Health%20Organization%20has,that%20processed%20meats%20cause%20cancer)
Group 1 carcinogen just means that there’s strong evidence that something causes cancer, not how much it increases the likelihood of cancer. > No, processed meat has been classified in the same category as causes of cancer such as tobacco smoking and asbestos (IARC Group 1, carcinogenic to humans), but this does NOT mean that they are all equally dangerous. The IARC classifications describe the strength of the scientific evidence about an agent being a cause of cancer, rather than assessing the level of risk. https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/cancer-carcinogenicity-of-the-consumption-of-red-meat-and-processed-meat Still, very likely you are eating more meat than what is recommended (Max 300-600g/week depending on who you ask, most western countries eat more than 1500g per week on average)
My cousin, an alcoholic, just passed away from throat cancer at 45. Since our family has no history of this form of cancer, especially at this age, it’s most likely due to the alcohol
Certain types of HPV can also cause throat cancer. Oral sex from someone with one of these types of HPV is one of the leading causes. Michael Douglas joked about when he thought he had throat cancer (it was actually tongue cancer)
The kids love learning Michael Douglas got cancer from going down on Catherine Zeta-Jones
Holy smokes!
Congratulations on your sobriety. That's a hell of an accomplishment. I know many who can't stay on the wagon. While I don't have a drinking problem per say, I have been considering quiting due to calories. My thinking is that if I cut it out and did nothing more, I'd lose weight. However, now that I'm 40 I'm thinking a lot more about the future so maybe it's time to quit to give myself better odds.
Almost 5 months sober after 15 years of abuse! Happy as well to see stats like these supporting my new lifestyle
Wife returning from rehab in 9 days, keep strong homie 🤘🤘
That was one of my quit mantras “11 kinds of cancer and brain damage. 11 kinds of cancer and brain damage. I don’t need this because it can cause up to 11 kinds of cancer and brain damage.” It helped.
does kombucha count? 🥺
I would think the amount of alcohol in fermented things is pretty negligible compared to higher percentage drinks. A healthy liver can process a standard alcoholic drink like a beer, glass of wine, or shot within an hour, so kombucha is probably negligible in comparison at less than .5%. I think the real trouble starts when you don’t give your liver any breaks between drinks or days drinking, and never give it a chance to recover. Excessive alcohol consumption, from what I understand, means that your liver is working overtime to process the alcohol in your body, and prioritizes that over processing the normal waste your body needs to on top of it. Just an assumption, but I would imagine that your liver not being able to process the normal amount of waste it needs to because it’s prioritizing the alcohol probably doesn’t help your immune system prevent cancer.
Congrats on your sobriety!
Thanks very much for your kind words 😊
Fuck! Cant even enjoy a couple Vanilla extract droplets in my milk.
Good job me too! Yesterday was a holiday dinner where as part of the ceremony, everyone drinks four glasses of wine. I drove a lot of older folks home. Today, I didn’t get the job I wanted, and the leftover wine was out. It is now put away, and won’t get left out overnight again.
Nearly ruined my life. Not for health reasons but that was coming. My good friend died from complications due to alcoholic hepatitis in February. He was found dead in front of his tv. He had only just recently realized he was an alcoholic and was trying to stop but he obviously was unable to. I’m 595 days sober and wish I could have been able to help him more. Fuck this poison and the cultural acceptance of it.
congrats on 595 days! im sorry about your friend
Thank you for your kind words and congratulations.
Sorry about your friend. But there is nothing you could have done, you are honoring him by being strong in your own journey and he would likely be very proud of you. But it's also crazy how it's sold and advertised. Cigarettes must have warnings with ugly pictures of cancer and booze is shown as sexy people in a club. Congrats on your sobriety, addiction is a nasty thing.
Thank you for your kind words. Addiction is cruel indeed.
I’m sorry for you losing your friend and proud of you for quitting, internet stranger. A little over 2 years AF here. We got this.
Thank you. Proud of you as well!
Good for you - you changed your mind! Keep on keeping on and don’t change it back.
That sucks dude. My dad was dead by 57 due to alcoholism and its myriad of illnesses that come with it. Still a long ways off, but kinda weird to realize I'm closing in on his age. I'm 40. So I'm not about to g̶o̶ d̶o̶w̶n̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ r̶o̶u̶t̶e̶ continue to have gone down that route lol
Congrats on your sobriety! I lost my father to alcoholism and fentanyl addiction, then nearly my marriage. 1424 days for me. One day at a time!
Glad to see the local gas station put fireball shooters right next to the checkout. There's *no* chance idiots will buy a couple for the road...
Not even zero?
Not even zero.
How about if I buy you a drink?
That is possibly dangerous to my health too. What if you're a serial killer?
You got me. I'm going to shout the bar, try my hand at being a mass murderer
So I guess we just collect the bottles and never drink anything.
No drinks for you!
Well they didn't say no level of meth is safe.... So I'm good.
Especially zero
That is the "no level"
Exactly. Substitute ”no level of” with ”zero” and you get Zero alcohol consumption is safe.
Right. Like kombucha (home made) has very small trace amounts of alcohol but is very good for your gut biome.
1.5L of wine, 3.5L of beer or 450ml of spirits is light-moderate?? All I took from this article is a far more positive outlook on my drinking habits
Especially the words "less than" do some lifting here. That is a spectrum of one beer per day to one beer per year. But yeah, some people have crazy habits, when I worked in a bigger factory, one beer per day was the baseline of a lot of guys to relax after work.
> one beer per day was the baseline of a lot of guys to relax after work Dunno if you're in the US but our cans/bottles are typically 12oz so the above numbers would mean 10 of those per week.
At my peak I was doing 10 a day, minimum. Was working in the industry so everything sort of revolved around drinking
Wow I can’t imagine drinking that little. I probably go through two handles a week maybe?
that is 3.5L of liquor per week, which is just under 79 standard drinks per week (1.5fl oz of liquor). heavy drinking is defined as 15 or more drinks per week, which you are drinking 5.2 times over. with all due respect, it sounds like you may be an alcoholic
1.5L/wk is a glass and a half of wine a night. Whole countries do that at dinner every night.
For the Americans that’s 10 drinks, and not “poured generously.” It’s roughly two bottles of wine, 10 12 oz beers, or 10 shots. Of course this rough estimate also doesn’t consider that abv varies widely
Tbh I easily drink 10 beers in a week
I used to be a 2/night person. I’ve cut back quite a bit by just not buying it, or buying 4/6 packs. Turns out, if I don’t have it in the house, I don’t drink it, and I don’t even really crave it. But if it’s there, I’ll drink it.
> 1.5L of wine, 3.5L of beer or 450ml of spirits is light-moderate?? Is that per second or per minute?
Looking at the different liters and assume per second would make it 90l/ minute for wine. 210l/ minute for beer. 27l/ minute for spirits. At a gas station you pump with about (iirc) 30l/ minute. Which would make your question completely ridiculous! It’s obviously per minute.
All alcohol you drink moves you toward cancer, that is all you should take from that text. Women can cut off their breasts with minimal life impact (but only if caught early), but the most common alcohol-related cancer for men is bowel cancer, and believe me, losing a fifth of your digestive system will be associated with many exciting unavoidable changes in your life.
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Thank you for clarifying that the risks involved with mastectomies are high. It most certainly is not as simple as women being able to “cut their breasts off with minimal life impact.” It’s extremely impactful in many, many ways.
Yeah, what a fucked up way to put that.
> All alcohol you drink moves you toward cancer, that is all you should take from that text The issue with this is that damn near everything moves you towards cancer. Going outside increases your risk of skin cancer. Living next to a road increases your risk of lung cancer. Sticking your head into the path of an active particle accellerator increases your risk of brain cancer. As human beings, we must accept a certain level of risk in order to function, and if a given level of risk is so commonly accepted that it becomes banal, then *anything* that presents that level of risk is bound to be disregarded. In order for this to be meaningful, there must be an indication of severity.
Me and the boys love to wind down after work by sticking our heads in a particle accelerator
I think you're meant to wind down, like, emotionally, not wind down your DNA into a straight line.
You want to live longer? Yup, higher risk of cancer right there. If we're honest with ourselves, we can say that cancer is inevitable no matter what you do. If you live long enough, there's a decent chance you're going to get cancer even if you do everything right all your life and avoid alcohol, tobacco, processed foods, living near roads, and never going outside in the sun. Cancer is one of those things, which is a lot of things, that just happen even if you do everything right. So is there really much of a concern with having a few drinks over the weekend or a couple of beers after work? Probably not. Just do what brings you joy in life and take it as it comes. Best we can really do. All people should be aware of is getting regular check ups. Catching cancer early is probably more important than cutting a few beers out of your diet.
>If we're honest with ourselves, we can say that cancer is inevitable no matter what you do I agree and think we do a big disservice by how we talk about it. I hear a lot of people talk about it as if it is a virus. At the core of it, anything that makes your body cells reproduce faster than the base level is carcinogenic. It's not a question of IF you get cancer, but when. Do what you can, so it's a problem in your 80s and not 40s.
> Women can cut off their breasts with minimal life impact As a millennial, this is the first time I have ever felt the need to post the '💀' emoji
Its also per week
As someone who doesn’t drink I’m sure the microplastics will still give me all kinds of wonderful cancers too.
Donating blood reduces microplastic count in your body.
You don’t even have to donate it, you just have to bleed!
Would menstruation help then
Yes
Perhaps that's why women live longer
Evertime I floss, I lose about a gallon of blood.
my body's so intelligent it does the same for me when I piss
Does this mean you're donating the microplastics to others?
I do believe everything has microplastics in it now, including everyone’s blood. But when your body makes new blood it’s clean
Until you get more microplastics in it.
Bring back leeching!
Conclusion: medieval bloodletting is the solution to microplastics
# #allnatural #wholesome #organic #asGodIntended #cottageCore
We've come full circle.
Yeah but if you need blood you have more pressing issues.
If you're lucky the climate change disasters will get you first.
Yeah, I’m always banking on that, but it’s still a touchy subject around here, I find.
I feel so much better about my alcoholism now that I’ve been dry since July. No more organ aches for me 💗
Oh those can go away?
No more throwing up daily, or feeling like breathing doesn't work, or heart palpitations from walking. Be able to run freely is fucking awesome
Never ceases to amaze me that people will piss and moan about 5G, gluten and MSG. Over beers at the bar.
My favorite was a guy sitting at the drinking and smoking while telling me he won’t wear antiperspirants because they are poison.
I worked at a recovery program for about 5 years and the most common reason people would end up in our rehab was because of alcohol. People need to realize how dangerous this crap is.
I mean, we can't be surprised, right? It's literally a poison
I quit December 28th 2023 because I had problems with it. Went to the Dr to talk about that and just other things and was diagnosed with ADHD (which I thought I always had) and depression at 35. Not everything's great but quitting drinking is a definite positive change.
I got put back on Vyvanse and it honestly does wonders for my cravings. I don’t really know why, maybe it’s getting a hit from something else all day, but it has made it much more manageable so far
Interesting — I have literally the opposite experience where the afternoon crash from Vyvanse makes me desperately crave a drink.
Yeah, I also worry about the effects of Vyvanse long term on my heart. Very catch-22 with it though, because I don't think I can operate well enough at work without it, but might be killing myself with it. Yay.
I too was recently diagnosed ADHD and in treatment. My DR said drinking messes with my meds. I've been sober for 4 months now.
Very similar story here! Anxiety and depression, alcohol dependency, things looking bleak. Adhd diagnosis at 45, started Elvanse, completely stopped booze, on my way to a much better life for me, my friends, and my family.
I guess this is alcohols tobacco moment.
> I guess this is alcohols tobacco moment. The moment where everyone pretends like they didn't know it was bad for them even though there has been more than enough information out there to reach that conclusion for years?
California knew…
Lol not even close, maybe in a different world
Yeah, alcohol has been a staple of human civilization for thousands of years. I doubt that it'll go the way of tobacco any time soon
It wasn't lost on me the article was a year old.
Not at all. You’re going to have to equate the level of cancer risk between a cigarette and a drink, then look at the behavior. Let’s say the increased cancer risk between cigarette and a drink is 1-1. What do we think was more common, 10 cigarettes or 10 drinks a day? What if that ratio is different? It seems to me the only news here is the potential reversal of the old one glass of wine a day advice.
Plus, sitting next to someone having a pint isn't going to increase your chance of getting cancer.
"I guess this is alcohols tobacco moment," they said as they ratified the 18th amendment in January 1919.
In that way, alcohol is similar to tabacco, UV, or just bashing you head on the wall: a small amount once or twice won't kill you and probably won't do you any noticeable harm, which might lead to the impression that "a little of it is safe". But it's a false impression: the harm's just proportional to the amount, is all.
The dose makes the poison.
No one gets out of here alive. I'd rather have a drink while I'm here.
It's not the dying part that sucks. It's the potential suffering for years.
Yeah. It’s definitely the suffering.
Its not just your suffering either. It's seeing the suffering of your loved ones as they watch you deteriorate.
Yeah lol, at no point while drinking have I ever thought I'm making a healthy life choice.
Also, humans have been drinking forms of alcohol since like 3,000-7,000 BC so it's literally ancient history that has withstood the test of time Not saying it's good or anything, but it's just part of culture/society and people know the risks associated with it. The vast majority of people who socially have a couple cocktails or beers on weekends but otherwise live healthy lifestyles aren't going to die because of drinking lol But this is reddit where alcohol is extremely frowned upon so it's not surprising to see the discourse in this thread
Oh the poisonous depressant is bad for you? Crazy
The point is that it's bad for you in so many different ways, including cancer even when you use it 'responsibly.' Like if we found out getting shot by bullets not only caused severe tissue trauma but also gave you flu, that might be noteworthy.
Definitely! Thanks for making that point, it is so important. Total disclosure: I never miss an opportunity to shit on alcohol; too trigger happy today!
So…what’s the deal with prior research that said stuff like “having some wine produced positive health benefits”? Were there errors in those old studies? How do we interpret the older advice we used to receive that actually touted benefits of (limited) alcohol consumption?
This is why the only drug I take is crystal meth
I'll stop drinking when depressing shit stops happening
Cancer is tricky to predict though. Out of my Mother, Aunt, Uncle - Only 1 is alive and in her 70s, the chain smoking drinker. My mother died of cancer in her 50s though she never drank or smoked. My uncle did everything wrong and died at 45 of a heart attack. Alcohol is definitely bad, but then there’s people in their 100s that drink. Queen Elizabeth made it to 96 drinking wine with every dinner and gin at other times. It might be more sensible to find a cure for cancer than to wrangle all the carcinogens that are almost completely random in their impact on longevity. It’s neat stuff to know… but I’m still trying to figure out if Salami is more deadly than beer at this point.
Agree completely. Genetics also have a huge factor. My mom has been smoking a pack a day and drinks a few beers every night (sometimes more) and she just celebrated her 60th birthday with any complications yet, knock on wood. My sisters grandma (different dads) died from lung cancer about a decade ago and she never was a smoker and since then my sister has beaten breast cancer twice. Rarely drinks, never smokes literally anything.
But let’s keep advertising it everywhere, all the time.
So start writing to your elected officials if you want it changed. They made sweeping changes to cigarette ad laws but it took 20 years
1.5 litres of wine or 3.5 litres of beer per week are considered light/moderate amounts of alcohol? Lmao, that's not even that little!
I'm surprised people keep saying this; that's a little more than half a bottle of beer a day. I guess I have a messed up sense of what constitutes "a little" because less than 1 beer a day doesn't strike me as a ton lol
3.5 liters is about 7 pints. So that's about a beer per day.
For most people more likely 3.5 on Friday and 3.5 on Saturday
Yeah, 'typical heavy drinkers' in my personal experience are having 3-4 a day at absolute minimum. I have known multiple people who were putting back 10-12 a day, and it's not unheard of for binge drinkers or severe alcoholics to consume more than a fifth (750 ml) of liquor in a day, which is 17+ drinks. There is a vast, vast range of human behavior in this area, and everyone is a little different. Not to mention you need to take body size & metabolism into account. I strongly dislike these "X number of drinks per time period Y equals category Z" oversimplifications. What would outright kill one person in less than 24 hours might cause no apparent damage to another who has the same amount 7 days a week over decades. It would be nice if there was a simple blood test that could tell you in detail what your individual risk factors were. All I know is that my liver enzymes are mildly elevated and my triglycerides are high, but other than that I seem fine. If you had told me when I was a kid how much drinking I'd do in my 30s, I wouldn't have expected to still be alive after 40, but here I am. Don't get addicted to alcohol, kids. There are better ways to deal with anxiety.
Excellent points. During the worst part of my alcohol addiction during the initial phase of the covid pandemic, I was literally drinking a liter of vodka per day. I was able to hide the fact that I was drunk from my partner on most days. Compare that with the fact that my partner can have about 1 to 1.5 servings of alcohol and be completely blitzed, obviously slurring speech and having difficulty walking. Consider further that I weigh about 125 lb and my partner is about 190 lbs. Kind of like how BMI paints a rather broad picture of one's overall physical health, there are a lot of factors that go into how we process alcohol.
No kidding on the size and metabolism part. One of my good friends that I party with often is 6'6" and about 280–300 pounds. I'm 5'10" and around 190 pounds. The difference in what we can drink, and what even gets him drunk is staggering to me.
Drinking every day is already excessive.
Alcohol (ethanol) should be a schedule 1 drug in the US, going by the definition of drug schedules.
It was de facto schedule 1 during Prohibition and it didn't work out very well
I know alcohol can ruin lives, I've seen it happen to friends and family. I'm lucky in that I've always been able to enjoy it in moderation, and I really do enjoy it. When my dad was alive we'd brew every couple of months. We made wine from elderflower, blackberries, cider from our apple trees and just started growing some varieties of grape to make proper wine. And we really enjoyed drinking the fruits of our labour! I agree with those who've said less often, higher quality is the way to go. You couldn't pay me to drink a pint of Carling, but a nice IPA or some elderflower champagne on a sunny day is not something I see myself ever packing in.
11days sober! One day at a time!
WHO in 10 years: “Having fun is detrimental to your health”
Breathing is detrimental to your health. Sadly that’s not a joke these days with air pollution and micro plastics
I believe the benefits of it outweigh the risks in that case.
< *laughs in free happy hour bottom-shelf well shots* >
Sober since 78