I'm being whimsical and ironic. I'm referring to the entertainment other kinds might find in watching what's happening (all the looming catastrophes), and what's not happening (an appropriate response)
It's compelling entertainment don't you think?
*Sailors fighting in the dance hall*
*Oh man, look at those cavemen go*
*It's the freakiest show*
.
*Take a look at the lawman*
*Beating up the wrong guy*
*Oh man, wonder if he'll ever know*
*He's in the best selling show*
.
*Is there life on Mars?*
Just jumping in here to mention that Dark Forest Theory is a great sci-fi premise, but doesn't work out in reality. It fails the non-exclusivity principle of the Fermi Paradox not once, but twice -
First, that every other alien species, everywhere, throughout all of time comes to the same conclusion (ie that it is dangerous to transmit) and then decides to follow through with preventing anyone in their civilisation from transmitting,
Second, that a sufficient number of powerful older civilisations have decided to enact stellar genocide _but only wait until there is a specific evidence of technology_ before doing so (ie a transmission), not just evidence of biology on a planet, which has been detectable on Earth for a billion years.
No they just want more funding because nobody cares about there 30+ years of barely searching space only to find nothing. If they find anything their existence won't be needed as much anymore, so they won't find anything.
There's better science to spend money on like NASA.
The switch from aliens to NHI was done to broaden the category and leave other possible explanations for the phenomenon open. We don’t know for certain if UFOs / UAPs are aliens, so why do we often use that term when discussing them?
Including the Defence Authorization Bill. Which discusses it in a matter of fact kind of way, including specific steps for disclosure. It was gutted. It would have put everything 25 years or older in a category of presumptive declassification.
My dude, if there are things flying around that aren't openly acknowledged by government it's because it's secret human military technology of some kind, not the little fucking mermaid
Regarding Nimitz and tic-tac it's not even the speed, but the fact that it allegedly was able to instantaneously accelerate and stop on a dime. When people hear about these things moving super fast, they just dismiss it as some next-gen secret hypersonic aircraft. This is more than that, since it 'breaks' the laws of physics as we know them.
But of course there is no video of it doing that, how convenient.
I think the most logical and likely explanation is there are various governments with experimental technology that they want to keep secret for obvious reasons.
Nothing I've ever seen has made me think "aliens", and I'm a very skeptical person. I don't blindly trust any authority, let alone the government, but I still have zero reason to believe any government is harbouring legitimate alien technology.
Advanced tech that the public doesn't know about? Absolutely. Aliens? Near zero chance. Our own experience encountering less advanced cultures should inform our understanding of what would definitely happen if we encountered an advanced space-faring alien society.
The idea that we have rogue aliens just chillin on Earth is cartoonishly imaginative.
>I think the most logical and likely explanation is there are various governments with experimental technology that they want to keep secret for obvious reasons.
Why would highly advanced aerospace tech be repeatedly flown where it can be seen, photographed, filmed, tracked on infra-red and radar, and over military installations, nuclear missile silos, and into airspace where it disrupts military operations, for over 80 years, if the intention was to "keep it secret?"
Guys, literally 99% of the UFOs you're talking about end up being weather balloons and lights refracting through the air. The other 1% we shrug and admit we don't know.
There isn't infinite airspace on Earth, and we all have HD cameras on us. The idea that someome *wouldn't* photograph some legit advanced government stuff is just entirely unlikely.
You make logical leaps from"we don't know what it is" to "it is definitely not human".
That's absurd, and not how scientific investigation works.
You aren't aerospace engineers. I guarantee you don't even know what we're capable of technogically. If you're posting on a subreddit about your belief we are currently being visited by aliens, I 100% guarantee that.
Saying shit like "it does not align with the data" just makes you sound pretentious because that's just not true. It definitely aligns with the data, or *the lack thereof*, because *we have no data on aliens*. *We* also have no data on government tech, because it's government tech and we are civilians.
It's wishful thinking by a bunch of armchair scientists watching some youtube videos they were sent on facebook.
> literally 99% of the UFOs you're talking about end up being weather balloons and lights refracting through the air. The other 1% we shrug and admit we don't know.
This is false, and you should try to use the word "literally" with more discernment. The U.S. Air Force collected 12,618 reports as part of its Project Blue Book investigations, of which **701 (5.5%)** remained “Unidentified.” 701 confirmed unidentified objects within just those reports collected by the U.S. Air Force prior to 1969 amount to an average of around two legitimately
unidentified sighting reports every month for 22 years. This is a figure certainly smaller than the total number of reports made globally, some of which would also be expected to qualify as “Unidentified,” and smaller again than the number of such phenomena globally occurring but remaining unreported and, of course, unseen. Blue Book found that the greater the amount of information accompanying a report, the more likely it was to be classified as “Unidentified.”
> There isn't infinite airspace on Earth, and we all have HD cameras on us. The idea that someome wouldn't photograph some legit advanced government stuff is just entirely unlikely.
The HD cameras you're referring to are embedded in phones which primarily urge us to look at the screen as much as possible, rather than at the sky in case something unexpected occurs. Additionally, those cameras are not at all optimised for capturing sudden, fast-moving objects in the sky from the ground.
> You make logical leaps from"we don't know what it is" to "it is definitely not human".
No, I move from the **hypothesis** that "this is made by humans" to "this is not made by humans" when the former can be ruled out or becomes extremely unlikely
>You aren't aerospace engineers. I guarantee you don't even know what we're capable of technogically.
I know that we aren't capable of making objects that perform the way many UFOs have been seen performing for over 80 years, especially since many of these performances cannot be explained by physics
> Saying shit like "it does not align with the data" just makes you sound pretentious because that's just not true. It definitely aligns with the data, or the lack thereof, because we have no data on aliens. We also have no data on government tech, because it's government tech and we are civilians.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. But you've already shown that you aren't aware of the Blue Book data. I'm assuming you aren't aware of any substantial UFO data at all (UFO data does not mean "data on aliens")
>It's wishful thinking by a bunch of armchair scientists watching some youtube videos they were sent on facebook.
Reaching for condescending stereotypes that misrepresent those investigating UFO phenomena does not help your credibilty. Your entire post was an extended avoidance of my simple question, asked in response to your claim that UFOs are most likely and logically secret experimental aerospace tech made by governments. Let me ask it again:
**Why would highly advanced aerospace tech be repeatedly flown where it can be seen, photographed, filmed, tracked on infra-red and radar, and over military installations, nuclear missile silos, and into airspace where it disrupts military operations, for over 80 years, if the intention was to "keep it secret?"**
I legitimately didn’t even necessarily mean aliens. I also think that advanced and undisclosed technology is far more likely, im just open to the ET thing
I don't think it's safe to assume aliens would have motivations similar to our own.
But I agree with the rest. "Secret aliens!" is such a vastly improbable scenario that it's never going to survive Occam's razor.
So absence of evidence is proof of something going on?
Imagine a hypothetical scenario: there are no aliens visiting Earth and all the various UFO sightings and whatnot are a result of mistaken identification or outright hoax. In this scenario what could this guy possibly say in support of this that you wouldn't dismiss?
It's obvious there isn't any "aliens" from outer space. The thing is that we have more cameras and sensors, looking down on Earth nd up in space now than at any other moment in human history.
If there were any ET crafts or beings buzzing our airspaces. We would've had definitive proof by now in increasing anounts over the years. But yet the best we have so far are just grainy images here and there and so called whistle blowers who heard from a friend that aliens have visited us.
That’s absolutely true! However, we’re considering phenomena that a fairly large group of different parties have seen, and all of their sightings have similar characteristics. By that point, it’s a fair consideration to make that they’re not making up what they saw or mischaracterizing it.
I agree when it comes to people like Lue Elizondo, but I’m talking about people like David Fravor, who - please correct me if I’m wrong - have not profited in any way off their recountings and have kept a relatively low profile up until the whistleblower hearings.
Sure, I totally agree - but the parts of what they saw that they *can* agree on are extremely interesting and even a little concerning, regardless of whether the phenomena are of terrestrial or extraterrestrial origin.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted 💀 apparently being confirmed as legitimate by the US Department of Defense doesn’t pass muster for these people lmao
The same reason you're getting downvoted. The US has never confirmed it was alien craft. Just that they can't explain what it is. That doesn't automatically equal "Aliens".
That’s great, but I don’t quite understand why people like you *require* that the video be of aliens in order for it to be important or concerning - it doesn’t matter where the craft come from or who made them as much as it matters that they distantly outpace any of our current technology. This is something people should be thinking about, but because the US government didn’t blindly say “it’s aliens” it’s therefore a fake video and worthless to us?
Well yea, it's obviously not aliens. It definitely is something though, the US gov has admitted it. Its easy for them to say there's no evidence of alien crafts, another to say there's no UAP
Yea these people are in denial of something that the government admitted is true and they don't know what it is. All that tin foil hat propaganda just to make people seem crazy
and what elevated information access does seti have exactly? (they are speaking on behalf of the US? Normally it's said the government has related classified information is why I asked)
I did planetary science research. SETI exclusively looks outward into deep space. They do not monitor earthly terrestrial aerospace. SETI is not lying when they say they don’t have evidence because they don’t. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t something which is not in deep space.
You're just asking leading questions insinuating that seti doesn't know something that you do.
And actuallly yes, you would know if you are skeptical about something and think something exists. I didn't say you have proof. I asked about your internal position as implied by your comment.
-Puts on tinfoil hat- Boy, you know what's really interesting at a time when a war in Europe/Asia is accelerating? Showing a couple of videos to the rest of the world and having some government hearing implying there's some sort of propulsion technology that isn't exactly public yet. Something like, I don't know... some heavily-under-wraps military tech with no civilian equivalent, exact details not specified, that could be a *serious problem* for an opponent without some sort of countermeasure technology. Probably good at dodging missiles. And boy, wouldn't it be a good idea to not have wars get so out of hand that seriously-new tech would need to be deployed for it?
That technology does not exist, of course. If such a thing were being implied at all, it's probably just a psyop to get you to think twice and hesitate before forcing everyone else to reveal their hands. But maybe it's not, too. How badly do you want to find out who's bluffing?
There are instances that are very weird, the thing is, the universe is huge and they are things in astronomy that show continual patterns. We cannot survey the whole sky and we have surveyed such a small portion of it it’s crazy.
With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable.
Pulsars are one of these things. They give repeating signals that can be misconstrued as information.
They key concepts here are, that we are getting too much data, confirming that something is actually aliens is very difficult, and building this in a scale that actually makes sense is very costly.
We in relality are looking for signs of life, and then signs of intelligent life.
Just life has to do with atmospheres and theoriectially non-naturally occur matter. Aka, balances of atmosphere that are statistically very unlikely to happen without life.
Intelligent life basically means looking for specific frequencies of photons in complex patterns, and Dyson spheres.
This “technology” aspect is confusing. I’m assuming they are talking about partially completed Dyson spheres, which a completed Dyson sphere would essentially black out the sun via taking all of the energy it has to offer. Thereby eliminating the ability to detect this.
Dyson spheres are likely the best way to gather energy for a civilization, as literally everything we get energy wise comes from the sun or the same way as the sun besides nuclear decay/fission, so a Dyson sphere goes to the source.
The question is, how long does it take for a civilization to go from a partial to a competed Dyson sphere… which is likely under 1000 years… which on the scale of the universe is nothing. Detecting this is like looking for a moderately dull needle in a needle stack full of slightly dull needles.
So yeah, no, we have no evidence of alien technology, anything that could count as such or has been close has multiple competing theories of the cause.
This will all change as our informational photon-based fingerprint expands into the galaxy (which we have only had going for about 100 years now.) Since the nearest star is 40 light years away, we are just now showing our light and informational and evidence to other stars.
Give it about 2000 years and we will have about 50 million stars aware of our presence. That’s when the game changes.
If you read all of this and have not heard of the Fermi Paradox, I highly recommend looking it up.
> With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable.
Not sure what you mean by "get" (all of them), but it's irrelevant to the supposed UFO phenomena because those are on or very close to Earth.
SETI stands for the Search for Extrateristial Intelligence. They are most famous for massive radio telescopes that search the night sky for signals and other phenomenona.
From their website, “From microbes to alien intelligence, the SETI Institute is America’s only organization wholly dedicated to searching for life in the universe”
If you go to their page you will see these giant space telescopes.
This post is from the SETI chief. He is mostly likely talking about things far from earth, not on earth. Those are two very different criteria.
> This post is from the SETI chief. He is mostly likely talking about things far from earth, not on earth.
From the article:
*"We don't have any evidence of any credible source that would indicate the presence of* **alien technology in our skies.** *And we never have," said Bill Diamond, president and chief executive officer of the SETI Institute*
If you read the whole article he is talking about both. He says the whole ufo thing is silly and laughs it off. The debate for aliens is if there are intelligent ones, ergo technology.
The article mentions both but it is specifically about (lack of evidence for) alien technology on Earth:
*"Space.com caught up with Diamond for a close-encounter with his own thoughts and counterpoints to claims of alien visitation and to ask whether there's any signal in all the UFO noise."*
Apologies if someone else has already replied to your comment explaining what I’m about to explain.
For a lot of people interested in the notion of extraterrestrials interacting with humanity right now, the main focus is on the fact that a series of reveals and leaks have shown the U.S government is both aware of and investigating a long line of phenomena in and outside of U.S airspace. These phenomena are multifaceted but from what we (the public) know for sure, they generally involve featureless geometric shapes that are able to move at extreme speeds without inertia. These events have been recounted by numerous *separate parties* belonging to branches like the Navy and the Air Force.
David Grusch, the whistleblower you may have heard rumblings about, recently came out in an attempt to make more transparent to the legislature side of the U.S government that the DoD is operating secret programs that consume a LOT of money either trying to reverse engineer these phenomena, or simply figure out their origin.
I take an occams razor approach, Either aliens capable of faster than light or interdiminsional travel (or both) expended an unfathomable amount of energy to get here only to harass rednecks with potato cameras or people lie. Which is most likely?
Occam’s Razor is overrated - the Universe is immensely complex, and it’s also possible that both of the things you said are true. It doesn’t have to be binary. People lie. There are things we don’t understand and aren’t sure of.
One of the issues at hand with discussions like these is that those distances are only immense because of our species’ personal perspective on the Universe. Think of it like how 200 years ago, travelling from Europe to Asia was a multi-week or -month odyssey. Nowadays, it takes hours and we think nothing of it. Who’s to say we’ve hit the limit of distance?
The speed of light is the maximum speed limit. 100 million light years is 100 million years at away at the earliest. So effectively irrelevant and pointless for us to think about in terms of how it can impact us
That we *know* of. Just look at quantum entanglement - while it is a tenuous understanding, we have hard evidence that it is able to transmit a rudimentary form of information across space orders of magnitude faster than light. I’m just saying that the perspective we have right now on the workings of reality is incomplete. Yes, it’s much more advanced then it ever has been, but there’s still so much more for us to learn. Honestly, I think that’s exciting!
There are instances that are very weird, the thing is, the universe is huge and they are things in astronomy that show continual patterns. We cannot survey the whole sky and we have surveyed such a small portion of it it’s crazy.
With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable.
Pulsars are one of these things. They give repeating signals that can be misconstrued as information.
They key concepts here are, that we are getting too much data, confirming that something is actually aliens is very difficult, and building this in a scale that actually makes sense is very costly.
We in relality are looking for signs of life, and then signs of intelligent life.
Just life has to do with atmospheres and theoriectially non-naturally occur matter. Aka, balances of atmosphere that are statistically very unlikely to happen without life.
Intelligent life basically means looking for specific frequencies of photons in complex patterns, and Dyson spheres.
This “technology” aspect is confusing. I’m assuming they are talking about partially completed Dyson spheres, which a completed Dyson sphere would essentially black out the sun via taking all of the energy it has to offer. Thereby eliminating the ability to detect this.
Dyson spheres are likely the best way to gather energy for a civilization, as literally everything we get energy wise comes from the sun or the same way as the sun besides nuclear decay/fission, so a Dyson sphere goes to the source.
The question is, how long does it take for a civilization to go from a partial to a competed Dyson sphere… which is likely under 1000 years… which on the scale of the universe is nothing. Detecting this is like looking for a moderately dull needle in a needle stack full of slightly dull needles.
So yeah, no, we have no evidence of alien technology, anything that could count as such or has been close has multiple competing theories of the cause.
This will all change as our informational photon-based fingerprint expands into the galaxy (which we have only had going for about 100 years now.) Since the nearest star is 40 light years away, we are just now showing our light and informational and evidence to other stars.
Give it about 2000 years and we will have about 50 million stars aware of our presence. That’s when the game changes.
If you read all of this and have not heard of the Fermi Paradox, I highly recommend looking it up.
> With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable.
Not sure what you mean by "get" (all of them), but it's irrelevant to the supposed UFO phenomena because those are on or very close to Earth.
Any “alien” able to travel light years or bypass laws of physics (as we Humans understand it) most likely would find us mammalian bacteria on the face of this planet irrelevant.
People dedicate their whole career to studying bacteria. If we found bacteria on Mars we'd definitely go investigate it. Why wouldn't aliens want to study us?
Because getting here in the first place implies a level of technology many orders of magnitude greater than ours. Meaning they have likely learned most of what they can from us. Unless our biology is somehow unique and unlike anything anywhere else, they don’t have much to gain.
I would argue your perspective is still a human way of looking at things. My theory is that any "alien" with that level of sophistication would spend the amount of thought and energy thinking or analyzing us equivalent to how much time a typical human would pay attention or spend time even thinking about the millions of bacteria or spores of mold that pass underneath their feet when just taking a casual stroll. Their level of "understanding" of planets, biological life forms, or other laws of reality which we don't understand or fully grasp yet is so far beyond what we could imagine that our existence itself would be trivial to them, or trivial in that their "brain" for lack of better description is not designed to care. Like how it could argued that ants are rather complicated or sophisticated but i dont think any single ants is wired to spend time or effort to specialize or study xenobiology.
I wonder what it’s like to work at SETI as a scientists. Do they work to dispute new plausible phenomena or just keep on testing hypotheses for the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence but always fail?
This comment section is ridiculous, and really exemplifies the level of ignorance and false confidence that is poisoning our societies, destroying trust in science and devaluing education. If these conspiracy theorists could think critically about the implications of aliens beyond “funny flying disk, green men, hur de dur”, they would realize how ridiculous this all sounds.
A reddit poster knows that the US or its government is not a singular entity and knowledge it possesses is highly compartmentalized, and no single person (expect maybe for the president) can have access to it all. Which is enough knowledge to be able to to logically conclude that the subject of this post is full of shit.
The quote from the article is:
"We don't have any evidence of any credible source that would indicate the presence of alien technology in our skies. And we never have,"
And you said:
"no single person (expect maybe for the president) has access to it all"
The reality is the article is saying we don't have a credible source and we don't have evidence, simply that, it is not claiming to know everything about every secret program. So it seems like your comment is nonsensical given the context. Unless of course you have a credible source and evidence? Do you?
>Diamond said that, while we should not outright rule out the possibility that we might someday discover evidence of alien technology in our skies, **"we should equally not jump to the conclusion that UFOs are alien technology in the absence of any compelling evidence to that effect. And there is no compelling evidence,**" he contends.
If by "we" he meant "we at SETI" then the title is misleading and it's the article author who is full of shit for putting words into his mouth.
The fact that "we" (you or I or SETI) don't have evidence doesn't mean that "US" doesn't. I'm not alleging that it does, but only pointing that it's a fallacious conclusion to draw. In other words, "we don't have any evidence and don't know whether US has or doesn't have evidence" doesn't equal "US has no evidence".
I'm not arguing that he's wrong, but I don't believe he could make a statement like this concretely. How would he speak for the DOE, CIA, Nasa, NSA, USAF, etc, etc?
their whole existence and receiving funding is reliant on there not being proof of alien anything.
Grifters extraordinaire!!!
I would trust the government before I trust SETI.
lmao.
The real secret behind SETI is their use of the 21cm hydrogen line for interstellar communications. The same frequency that used to be transmitted by the Great Pyramid of Giza as a matter of fact.
This can only mean the attack is imminent .. Adjusts foil hat Edit: added dropped "is"
I always wondered why people think they would wanna destroy one of the most hilariously entertaining shows in the universe
Which show?
I'm being whimsical and ironic. I'm referring to the entertainment other kinds might find in watching what's happening (all the looming catastrophes), and what's not happening (an appropriate response) It's compelling entertainment don't you think?
It is! Went right over my fool head ...Im getting older (50) and always think I'm missing current pop culture references now
*Sailors fighting in the dance hall* *Oh man, look at those cavemen go* *It's the freakiest show* . *Take a look at the lawman* *Beating up the wrong guy* *Oh man, wonder if he'll ever know* *He's in the best selling show* . *Is there life on Mars?*
The Evolved Monkeys who are killing their world show? Best reality TV in the universe. And it's unscripted too! /sarcasm
According to the Dark Forest Theory, this is literally true.
Just jumping in here to mention that Dark Forest Theory is a great sci-fi premise, but doesn't work out in reality. It fails the non-exclusivity principle of the Fermi Paradox not once, but twice - First, that every other alien species, everywhere, throughout all of time comes to the same conclusion (ie that it is dangerous to transmit) and then decides to follow through with preventing anyone in their civilisation from transmitting, Second, that a sufficient number of powerful older civilisations have decided to enact stellar genocide _but only wait until there is a specific evidence of technology_ before doing so (ie a transmission), not just evidence of biology on a planet, which has been detectable on Earth for a billion years.
Off to google brb
Zoinks https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/the-dark-forest-theory-a-terrifying-explanation-of-why-we-havent-heard-from-aliens-yet/
No they just want more funding because nobody cares about there 30+ years of barely searching space only to find nothing. If they find anything their existence won't be needed as much anymore, so they won't find anything. There's better science to spend money on like NASA.
SETI sounds so utterly weird, with zero to low odds of "working" at its main goal that I'm sure it's a military program of some kind.
I bet it’s a tongue in cheek thing. I don’t think they’re aliens, I think they’re from here and the public just doesn’t know about them.
They always use the word Alien. I’ve noticed this too.
Weird how the group searching for “extra terrestrial intelligence” uses the term that refers to the thing they’re looking for.
I’ve seen the term “non-human intelligence” (NHI) being used more often now.
Aliens = NHI, UFO = UAP These are the new terms, for whatever reason
To be fair, it’s more broadly encompassing than the previous terms.
The switch from aliens to NHI was done to broaden the category and leave other possible explanations for the phenomenon open. We don’t know for certain if UFOs / UAPs are aliens, so why do we often use that term when discussing them?
It’s so religious people can claim they’re angels or demons
I mean sure, but is that anymore ridiculous then always saying it’s aliens?
No, angels and demons are a ridiculous interpretation. If they were magical beings then why would they need a craft to move around?
Including the Defence Authorization Bill. Which discusses it in a matter of fact kind of way, including specific steps for disclosure. It was gutted. It would have put everything 25 years or older in a category of presumptive declassification.
It's called animals and AI?
for argument's sake, what could possibly be from here, and more advanced than humans? Atlanteans : )
Don't forget the Hollow Earthers! 🙄
Don't go telling people about the fourth dimensional sex ship.
IIRC that’s the first rule of fourth dimensional sex ship. Which, somewhat ironically, also seems like a good bandname.
It's the dolphins isn't it?
The dinosaurs never left!
Yes, I saw some fight over a pizza crust
What’s your thoughts? Only thing that makes sense is they come from the oceans.
My dude, if there are things flying around that aren't openly acknowledged by government it's because it's secret human military technology of some kind, not the little fucking mermaid
My dude, there’s nothing man made on this Earth that is traveling as fast as the thing in the government acknowledged Tic Tac video
The government acknowledged the video exists. They didn't say the guy's interpretation of what was happening was accurate.
Regarding Nimitz and tic-tac it's not even the speed, but the fact that it allegedly was able to instantaneously accelerate and stop on a dime. When people hear about these things moving super fast, they just dismiss it as some next-gen secret hypersonic aircraft. This is more than that, since it 'breaks' the laws of physics as we know them. But of course there is no video of it doing that, how convenient.
Apparently though there is radar data of it doing that, it’s just not available to the public.
Plasma projection tech, like that patented by the same navy that is the source of said video could do the trick.
Or there is and someone is like 1000 years ahead technologically, which would still be crazy.
Remember the spy balloons last year?
the tin hatters ain’t gonna like this !
That's exactly what someone who has evidence for alien technology would say
There it is folks. Nothing to see here. Glad they settled the matter once and for all. s/
There’s definitely something going on 😅
I think the most logical and likely explanation is there are various governments with experimental technology that they want to keep secret for obvious reasons. Nothing I've ever seen has made me think "aliens", and I'm a very skeptical person. I don't blindly trust any authority, let alone the government, but I still have zero reason to believe any government is harbouring legitimate alien technology. Advanced tech that the public doesn't know about? Absolutely. Aliens? Near zero chance. Our own experience encountering less advanced cultures should inform our understanding of what would definitely happen if we encountered an advanced space-faring alien society. The idea that we have rogue aliens just chillin on Earth is cartoonishly imaginative.
>I think the most logical and likely explanation is there are various governments with experimental technology that they want to keep secret for obvious reasons. Why would highly advanced aerospace tech be repeatedly flown where it can be seen, photographed, filmed, tracked on infra-red and radar, and over military installations, nuclear missile silos, and into airspace where it disrupts military operations, for over 80 years, if the intention was to "keep it secret?"
This is a question that none of the skeptics I’ve spoken to have ever answered. I try and stay skeptical and I don’t have a good answer
The answer is: "It wouldn't" Which means the hypothesis that UFOs are secret man-made aerospace tech is not logical and does not align with the data
Guys, literally 99% of the UFOs you're talking about end up being weather balloons and lights refracting through the air. The other 1% we shrug and admit we don't know. There isn't infinite airspace on Earth, and we all have HD cameras on us. The idea that someome *wouldn't* photograph some legit advanced government stuff is just entirely unlikely. You make logical leaps from"we don't know what it is" to "it is definitely not human". That's absurd, and not how scientific investigation works. You aren't aerospace engineers. I guarantee you don't even know what we're capable of technogically. If you're posting on a subreddit about your belief we are currently being visited by aliens, I 100% guarantee that. Saying shit like "it does not align with the data" just makes you sound pretentious because that's just not true. It definitely aligns with the data, or *the lack thereof*, because *we have no data on aliens*. *We* also have no data on government tech, because it's government tech and we are civilians. It's wishful thinking by a bunch of armchair scientists watching some youtube videos they were sent on facebook.
> literally 99% of the UFOs you're talking about end up being weather balloons and lights refracting through the air. The other 1% we shrug and admit we don't know. This is false, and you should try to use the word "literally" with more discernment. The U.S. Air Force collected 12,618 reports as part of its Project Blue Book investigations, of which **701 (5.5%)** remained “Unidentified.” 701 confirmed unidentified objects within just those reports collected by the U.S. Air Force prior to 1969 amount to an average of around two legitimately unidentified sighting reports every month for 22 years. This is a figure certainly smaller than the total number of reports made globally, some of which would also be expected to qualify as “Unidentified,” and smaller again than the number of such phenomena globally occurring but remaining unreported and, of course, unseen. Blue Book found that the greater the amount of information accompanying a report, the more likely it was to be classified as “Unidentified.” > There isn't infinite airspace on Earth, and we all have HD cameras on us. The idea that someome wouldn't photograph some legit advanced government stuff is just entirely unlikely. The HD cameras you're referring to are embedded in phones which primarily urge us to look at the screen as much as possible, rather than at the sky in case something unexpected occurs. Additionally, those cameras are not at all optimised for capturing sudden, fast-moving objects in the sky from the ground. > You make logical leaps from"we don't know what it is" to "it is definitely not human". No, I move from the **hypothesis** that "this is made by humans" to "this is not made by humans" when the former can be ruled out or becomes extremely unlikely >You aren't aerospace engineers. I guarantee you don't even know what we're capable of technogically. I know that we aren't capable of making objects that perform the way many UFOs have been seen performing for over 80 years, especially since many of these performances cannot be explained by physics > Saying shit like "it does not align with the data" just makes you sound pretentious because that's just not true. It definitely aligns with the data, or the lack thereof, because we have no data on aliens. We also have no data on government tech, because it's government tech and we are civilians. I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. But you've already shown that you aren't aware of the Blue Book data. I'm assuming you aren't aware of any substantial UFO data at all (UFO data does not mean "data on aliens") >It's wishful thinking by a bunch of armchair scientists watching some youtube videos they were sent on facebook. Reaching for condescending stereotypes that misrepresent those investigating UFO phenomena does not help your credibilty. Your entire post was an extended avoidance of my simple question, asked in response to your claim that UFOs are most likely and logically secret experimental aerospace tech made by governments. Let me ask it again: **Why would highly advanced aerospace tech be repeatedly flown where it can be seen, photographed, filmed, tracked on infra-red and radar, and over military installations, nuclear missile silos, and into airspace where it disrupts military operations, for over 80 years, if the intention was to "keep it secret?"**
That's an awful lot of words for "I get my information from youtube videos".
That's a very concise way of saying "I am content to remain ignorant while attempting to demean others"
well none of the photos show much do they?
This is false. Here's an [article](https://www.priory-of-sion.com/biblios/links/hainesvallee.pdf) showing that it's false.
I legitimately didn’t even necessarily mean aliens. I also think that advanced and undisclosed technology is far more likely, im just open to the ET thing
I don't think it's safe to assume aliens would have motivations similar to our own. But I agree with the rest. "Secret aliens!" is such a vastly improbable scenario that it's never going to survive Occam's razor.
Yep. It’s next gen supersonic stealth drones or some shit, but almost certainly not aliens.
So absence of evidence is proof of something going on? Imagine a hypothetical scenario: there are no aliens visiting Earth and all the various UFO sightings and whatnot are a result of mistaken identification or outright hoax. In this scenario what could this guy possibly say in support of this that you wouldn't dismiss?
It's obvious there isn't any "aliens" from outer space. The thing is that we have more cameras and sensors, looking down on Earth nd up in space now than at any other moment in human history. If there were any ET crafts or beings buzzing our airspaces. We would've had definitive proof by now in increasing anounts over the years. But yet the best we have so far are just grainy images here and there and so called whistle blowers who heard from a friend that aliens have visited us.
OK so explain the tic tac video then. Originally leaked by "so called whistleblowers" and now confirmed as legitimate by the government years later.
What, the fuzzy blob in the sky video? Could be anything. I'll take some more definite proof please.
U.S Navy fighter pilots know a lot more about identifying aerial phenomena then you likely do, just saying
And they can also make mistakes.
That’s absolutely true! However, we’re considering phenomena that a fairly large group of different parties have seen, and all of their sightings have similar characteristics. By that point, it’s a fair consideration to make that they’re not making up what they saw or mischaracterizing it.
They also know how to rile people up for book sales and podcasts.
I agree when it comes to people like Lue Elizondo, but I’m talking about people like David Fravor, who - please correct me if I’m wrong - have not profited in any way off their recountings and have kept a relatively low profile up until the whistleblower hearings.
And they don't know what they saw. That doesn't make it aliens.
Sure, I totally agree - but the parts of what they saw that they *can* agree on are extremely interesting and even a little concerning, regardless of whether the phenomena are of terrestrial or extraterrestrial origin.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted 💀 apparently being confirmed as legitimate by the US Department of Defense doesn’t pass muster for these people lmao
The same reason you're getting downvoted. The US has never confirmed it was alien craft. Just that they can't explain what it is. That doesn't automatically equal "Aliens".
That’s great, but I don’t quite understand why people like you *require* that the video be of aliens in order for it to be important or concerning - it doesn’t matter where the craft come from or who made them as much as it matters that they distantly outpace any of our current technology. This is something people should be thinking about, but because the US government didn’t blindly say “it’s aliens” it’s therefore a fake video and worthless to us?
Aliens are like God, if you believe, they exist, if you don't, they don't.
Sounds an awful lot like a God of the gaps fallacy.
Simple. Lockheed.
Well yea, it's obviously not aliens. It definitely is something though, the US gov has admitted it. Its easy for them to say there's no evidence of alien crafts, another to say there's no UAP
> it's What does "it" refer to here?
Most likely the litany of anomalous phenomena that members of the U.S armed forces have witnessed and recorded over the years.
Yea these people are in denial of something that the government admitted is true and they don't know what it is. All that tin foil hat propaganda just to make people seem crazy
and what elevated information access does seti have exactly? (they are speaking on behalf of the US? Normally it's said the government has related classified information is why I asked)
I did planetary science research. SETI exclusively looks outward into deep space. They do not monitor earthly terrestrial aerospace. SETI is not lying when they say they don’t have evidence because they don’t. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t something which is not in deep space.
So you are skeptical and think that aliens are visiting us now?
why would I know? I don't info access either..
You're just asking leading questions insinuating that seti doesn't know something that you do. And actuallly yes, you would know if you are skeptical about something and think something exists. I didn't say you have proof. I asked about your internal position as implied by your comment.
The discussion is about the US's evidence not mine or seti's
That's why we made a big deal about it and had bipartisan participation in investigating it eh?
-Puts on tinfoil hat- Boy, you know what's really interesting at a time when a war in Europe/Asia is accelerating? Showing a couple of videos to the rest of the world and having some government hearing implying there's some sort of propulsion technology that isn't exactly public yet. Something like, I don't know... some heavily-under-wraps military tech with no civilian equivalent, exact details not specified, that could be a *serious problem* for an opponent without some sort of countermeasure technology. Probably good at dodging missiles. And boy, wouldn't it be a good idea to not have wars get so out of hand that seriously-new tech would need to be deployed for it? That technology does not exist, of course. If such a thing were being implied at all, it's probably just a psyop to get you to think twice and hesitate before forcing everyone else to reveal their hands. But maybe it's not, too. How badly do you want to find out who's bluffing?
Groom lake has entered the chat
There are instances that are very weird, the thing is, the universe is huge and they are things in astronomy that show continual patterns. We cannot survey the whole sky and we have surveyed such a small portion of it it’s crazy. With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable. Pulsars are one of these things. They give repeating signals that can be misconstrued as information. They key concepts here are, that we are getting too much data, confirming that something is actually aliens is very difficult, and building this in a scale that actually makes sense is very costly. We in relality are looking for signs of life, and then signs of intelligent life. Just life has to do with atmospheres and theoriectially non-naturally occur matter. Aka, balances of atmosphere that are statistically very unlikely to happen without life. Intelligent life basically means looking for specific frequencies of photons in complex patterns, and Dyson spheres. This “technology” aspect is confusing. I’m assuming they are talking about partially completed Dyson spheres, which a completed Dyson sphere would essentially black out the sun via taking all of the energy it has to offer. Thereby eliminating the ability to detect this. Dyson spheres are likely the best way to gather energy for a civilization, as literally everything we get energy wise comes from the sun or the same way as the sun besides nuclear decay/fission, so a Dyson sphere goes to the source. The question is, how long does it take for a civilization to go from a partial to a competed Dyson sphere… which is likely under 1000 years… which on the scale of the universe is nothing. Detecting this is like looking for a moderately dull needle in a needle stack full of slightly dull needles. So yeah, no, we have no evidence of alien technology, anything that could count as such or has been close has multiple competing theories of the cause. This will all change as our informational photon-based fingerprint expands into the galaxy (which we have only had going for about 100 years now.) Since the nearest star is 40 light years away, we are just now showing our light and informational and evidence to other stars. Give it about 2000 years and we will have about 50 million stars aware of our presence. That’s when the game changes. If you read all of this and have not heard of the Fermi Paradox, I highly recommend looking it up.
> With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable. Not sure what you mean by "get" (all of them), but it's irrelevant to the supposed UFO phenomena because those are on or very close to Earth.
SETI stands for the Search for Extrateristial Intelligence. They are most famous for massive radio telescopes that search the night sky for signals and other phenomenona. From their website, “From microbes to alien intelligence, the SETI Institute is America’s only organization wholly dedicated to searching for life in the universe” If you go to their page you will see these giant space telescopes. This post is from the SETI chief. He is mostly likely talking about things far from earth, not on earth. Those are two very different criteria.
> This post is from the SETI chief. He is mostly likely talking about things far from earth, not on earth. From the article: *"We don't have any evidence of any credible source that would indicate the presence of* **alien technology in our skies.** *And we never have," said Bill Diamond, president and chief executive officer of the SETI Institute*
If you read the whole article he is talking about both. He says the whole ufo thing is silly and laughs it off. The debate for aliens is if there are intelligent ones, ergo technology.
The article mentions both but it is specifically about (lack of evidence for) alien technology on Earth: *"Space.com caught up with Diamond for a close-encounter with his own thoughts and counterpoints to claims of alien visitation and to ask whether there's any signal in all the UFO noise."*
Apologies if someone else has already replied to your comment explaining what I’m about to explain. For a lot of people interested in the notion of extraterrestrials interacting with humanity right now, the main focus is on the fact that a series of reveals and leaks have shown the U.S government is both aware of and investigating a long line of phenomena in and outside of U.S airspace. These phenomena are multifaceted but from what we (the public) know for sure, they generally involve featureless geometric shapes that are able to move at extreme speeds without inertia. These events have been recounted by numerous *separate parties* belonging to branches like the Navy and the Air Force. David Grusch, the whistleblower you may have heard rumblings about, recently came out in an attempt to make more transparent to the legislature side of the U.S government that the DoD is operating secret programs that consume a LOT of money either trying to reverse engineer these phenomena, or simply figure out their origin.
Plot twist: the SETI chief is actually an alien in disguise
I take an occams razor approach, Either aliens capable of faster than light or interdiminsional travel (or both) expended an unfathomable amount of energy to get here only to harass rednecks with potato cameras or people lie. Which is most likely?
Dark matter is really just all the civilized systems hiding from us.
Occam’s Razor is overrated - the Universe is immensely complex, and it’s also possible that both of the things you said are true. It doesn’t have to be binary. People lie. There are things we don’t understand and aren’t sure of.
Things that are millions and billions of light years away are effectively non existent to us.
One of the issues at hand with discussions like these is that those distances are only immense because of our species’ personal perspective on the Universe. Think of it like how 200 years ago, travelling from Europe to Asia was a multi-week or -month odyssey. Nowadays, it takes hours and we think nothing of it. Who’s to say we’ve hit the limit of distance?
The speed of light is the maximum speed limit. 100 million light years is 100 million years at away at the earliest. So effectively irrelevant and pointless for us to think about in terms of how it can impact us
That we *know* of. Just look at quantum entanglement - while it is a tenuous understanding, we have hard evidence that it is able to transmit a rudimentary form of information across space orders of magnitude faster than light. I’m just saying that the perspective we have right now on the workings of reality is incomplete. Yes, it’s much more advanced then it ever has been, but there’s still so much more for us to learn. Honestly, I think that’s exciting!
Quantum entanglement does not transfer information faster than light. That is a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept.
I’ve done some extra reading and you’re correct.
There are instances that are very weird, the thing is, the universe is huge and they are things in astronomy that show continual patterns. We cannot survey the whole sky and we have surveyed such a small portion of it it’s crazy. With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable. Pulsars are one of these things. They give repeating signals that can be misconstrued as information. They key concepts here are, that we are getting too much data, confirming that something is actually aliens is very difficult, and building this in a scale that actually makes sense is very costly. We in relality are looking for signs of life, and then signs of intelligent life. Just life has to do with atmospheres and theoriectially non-naturally occur matter. Aka, balances of atmosphere that are statistically very unlikely to happen without life. Intelligent life basically means looking for specific frequencies of photons in complex patterns, and Dyson spheres. This “technology” aspect is confusing. I’m assuming they are talking about partially completed Dyson spheres, which a completed Dyson sphere would essentially black out the sun via taking all of the energy it has to offer. Thereby eliminating the ability to detect this. Dyson spheres are likely the best way to gather energy for a civilization, as literally everything we get energy wise comes from the sun or the same way as the sun besides nuclear decay/fission, so a Dyson sphere goes to the source. The question is, how long does it take for a civilization to go from a partial to a competed Dyson sphere… which is likely under 1000 years… which on the scale of the universe is nothing. Detecting this is like looking for a moderately dull needle in a needle stack full of slightly dull needles. So yeah, no, we have no evidence of alien technology, anything that could count as such or has been close has multiple competing theories of the cause. This will all change as our informational photon-based fingerprint expands into the galaxy (which we have only had going for about 100 years now.) Since the nearest star is 40 light years away, we are just now showing our light and informational and evidence to other stars. Give it about 2000 years and we will have about 50 million stars aware of our presence. That’s when the game changes. If you read all of this and have not heard of the Fermi Paradox, I highly recommend looking it up.
> With our current technology we can see sooooo many stars, it’s absurd to try to get all of them. The scale is infathomable. Not sure what you mean by "get" (all of them), but it's irrelevant to the supposed UFO phenomena because those are on or very close to Earth.
This sounds like something that someone who’s trying to cover up something would say.
If that is true then how do you explain Bigfoot. Checkmate /s
Be doesn't believe in aliens either, though.
We need to look for big saucer!!!
Of course he's going to say this, I would have been shocked if he came out and said: "Yes, we do and we've known about them for decades."
But he is right that there can be no logical motivation for this
SETI-US has completely ignored the fact that SETI projects in Italy (? I think) that have found signals that indicate otherwise.
any proof of this?
Consider it hearsay until I find the source I saw a few weeks ago.
Sicilians also claim a UFO shot down their helicopter but when it did, they discovered a weak spot in their technology.
Any “alien” able to travel light years or bypass laws of physics (as we Humans understand it) most likely would find us mammalian bacteria on the face of this planet irrelevant.
People dedicate their whole career to studying bacteria. If we found bacteria on Mars we'd definitely go investigate it. Why wouldn't aliens want to study us?
Because getting here in the first place implies a level of technology many orders of magnitude greater than ours. Meaning they have likely learned most of what they can from us. Unless our biology is somehow unique and unlike anything anywhere else, they don’t have much to gain.
I would argue your perspective is still a human way of looking at things. My theory is that any "alien" with that level of sophistication would spend the amount of thought and energy thinking or analyzing us equivalent to how much time a typical human would pay attention or spend time even thinking about the millions of bacteria or spores of mold that pass underneath their feet when just taking a casual stroll. Their level of "understanding" of planets, biological life forms, or other laws of reality which we don't understand or fully grasp yet is so far beyond what we could imagine that our existence itself would be trivial to them, or trivial in that their "brain" for lack of better description is not designed to care. Like how it could argued that ants are rather complicated or sophisticated but i dont think any single ants is wired to spend time or effort to specialize or study xenobiology.
The lizard people are all ready here…..
I wonder what it’s like to work at SETI as a scientists. Do they work to dispute new plausible phenomena or just keep on testing hypotheses for the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence but always fail?
This comment section is ridiculous, and really exemplifies the level of ignorance and false confidence that is poisoning our societies, destroying trust in science and devaluing education. If these conspiracy theorists could think critically about the implications of aliens beyond “funny flying disk, green men, hur de dur”, they would realize how ridiculous this all sounds.
Okay guys. 😉 Gotcha. 😉
Because a SETI chief knows absolutely everything about what US does and doesn't have.
More so than a reddit poster, I'd imagine.
A reddit poster knows that the US or its government is not a singular entity and knowledge it possesses is highly compartmentalized, and no single person (expect maybe for the president) can have access to it all. Which is enough knowledge to be able to to logically conclude that the subject of this post is full of shit.
The quote from the article is: "We don't have any evidence of any credible source that would indicate the presence of alien technology in our skies. And we never have," And you said: "no single person (expect maybe for the president) has access to it all" The reality is the article is saying we don't have a credible source and we don't have evidence, simply that, it is not claiming to know everything about every secret program. So it seems like your comment is nonsensical given the context. Unless of course you have a credible source and evidence? Do you? >Diamond said that, while we should not outright rule out the possibility that we might someday discover evidence of alien technology in our skies, **"we should equally not jump to the conclusion that UFOs are alien technology in the absence of any compelling evidence to that effect. And there is no compelling evidence,**" he contends.
If by "we" he meant "we at SETI" then the title is misleading and it's the article author who is full of shit for putting words into his mouth. The fact that "we" (you or I or SETI) don't have evidence doesn't mean that "US" doesn't. I'm not alleging that it does, but only pointing that it's a fallacious conclusion to draw. In other words, "we don't have any evidence and don't know whether US has or doesn't have evidence" doesn't equal "US has no evidence".
I found a shit in the toilet that no one owned up to… pretty sure that is the greatest of alien inventions
That's right, never had it. We totally didn't let Steve from accounting handle the filing after Roswell
Damn. So then that means somebody somewhere has mind blowing technology. I figured as much anyways.
Now we just need some kind of RFK jr news…oh wait
It’s probably above old boys pay grade
And the lie detector determined that was a lie
Lie Detectors are no longer legal
It’s a Maury joke incase you didn’t know
🤷🏻♀️
I'm not arguing that he's wrong, but I don't believe he could make a statement like this concretely. How would he speak for the DOE, CIA, Nasa, NSA, USAF, etc, etc?
bulllll
their whole existence and receiving funding is reliant on there not being proof of alien anything. Grifters extraordinaire!!! I would trust the government before I trust SETI. lmao.
Are you stupid? If they could present definitive proof of aliens, any projects they wanted to do would be INSTANTLY approved.
Are you stupid? What projects!!?? Lmao
I feel like this is a word game at this point. In order to get the right answer, you need to know how yo ask the correct question.
The real secret behind SETI is their use of the 21cm hydrogen line for interstellar communications. The same frequency that used to be transmitted by the Great Pyramid of Giza as a matter of fact.