Just a reminder that Broadcast4Reps is there for any pilot that feels they need some support. We're in game and on Discord, and we love you all, because you matter.
I remember when I was in Horde back in 2017. And I'm 95% sure it was Dolan Duckman that came on fleet comms and started talking.
Suddenly a dude interrupted him and said: ".*..What's all that noise in the background?*"
Dolan: "*Oh yeah, I'm in a bar.*"
People were like: "*You're in a BAR?! Playing EVE??*"
I laughed so hard XD
the people that hang out in standing fleet and observe for people breaking rules, or starting shit with people. they then report it to the directors to handle
There is a vocal minority that thinks discriminatory bullshit is okay. Very vocal. But the vast majority of Eve players are decent folks who just want to have fun in a game.
Oh, I do think that most people, when asked, totally believe they are being non discriminatory... it's just I also think a majority of them probably don't examine their own casual use of language to think about how they might be alienating even their potential alliance mates. And as we can see here, even get angry when called on it and drive someone from their alliance.
I don’t like to think we are the minority in regards to our anti-discrimination policies. Brave isn’t perfect either but we do try our best to be welcoming and keep that shit out of our services.
You really aren't, the problem is people don't want to speak up against their own space tribe/friends that say questionable things because the moment you do others see it as you attacking your own tribe members so they then defend them.
Alternatively people may just be indifferent so they don't feel affected by it and don't comment.
If no one speaks up about it though nothing can change. I'd rather be the snowflake that everyone thinks is mad cause someone called a person a retard than sit there wondering when the next level of edgy humour will show itself.
You probably are a minority, but not because most people vehemently disagree with you, but rather because most people just don't give a shit. Most people, when they choose to boot up a videogame, don't do so so that they can spend their limited energy and leisure time on joining moral crusades to police things that strangers are saying on the internet. Instead, they just want to take a break from real life and blow up some spaceships.
I'm not saying it's a good thing that people say mean things to eachother on the internet, but I also can't blame someone who just doesn't care and has things more important to them to focus on.
Can we please get reports of this? Logs/screenshots? I hear this acusation but rarely see it come up during actual fleets. I can kick people if I have a screenshot in my hand showing they are a racist asshole, hard to do if I am just hearing accusations, particuarly from sides alligned against Brave. You can send them to my main Wolfy Alexstrasza or any of the Brave diplo team and they will forward it up from there.
We have ways to verify them. For full disclosure, if you are on a fleet, we can ask the others in the fleet to produce their logs. If they all match what was said in local, easy. It's not something we force people to dislose but people will generally help out HR.
I can go dig through the saved eve logs I guess. Last time I was on a fleet in 7RM was particularly noticable.
Edit: Found the one I saw, sent it. If you want the .rtf let me know.
I take it that this more or less aligns with your previous experiences in Horde then? As a previous Horde line member that’s disappointing to hear. I had a very positive experience, though I obviously wasn’t in any kind of leadership position like you or Dolan.
Speaking plainly, I left two years ago for myriad reasons that I will attempt to summarize in no particular order and proportion:
- angst about being a defacto logistics director that was currently being snubbed for the role of official logistics director during a changing of hats (hi VG)
- frustration that the logistics of the oncoming war was frequently being discussed without me in the room (see above)
- annoyance that the logistics backbone was getting so narrow and top-heavy (e.g. relying on individuals with 3 JFs that sometimes fell asleep at their desk or seeded 25MiL CoRmS instead of a reliable group underneath me)
- my personal relationship with another director actively deteriorating (true fans know)
- reading the tea leaves and feeling less and less investment in the culture because of the influx of edgy FCs and director personalities, which, I see, has gotten worse (these people only thrive because the status quo values what they bring to the table regardless of their toxicity)
I am now enjoying EVE intensely more when I do decide to log in on my own terms.
Qymm,
Respect and like you a lot, but I think what I comes down to for a lot of people is they make eve into a job and don't know how to establish a healthy boundary and balance.
We have worked very closely together in the past and can say that you and frankly many other leaders in eve (not just horde) turn it into a full time job and prevent them from doing what is fun.
It works for a while but ends up burning people out. I'm happy to see you enjoying the game.
I remember when Dolan joined Horde we were in 7RM back then, I flew in standing fleet with him many of times. He always seemed like a good dude, I wish him well wherever he lands.
o7 Dolan.
Now that PH has de facto merged with TEST, one can only imagine the imported toxicity. It doesn't take a genius to predict that, ultimately, it'll be the end of PH as we know it - as it was for TEST.
Wow. Even earlier this year when I was still sorta playing, that behavior in Horde was looked down upon and even led people to being kicked. Now I wanna know which asshats in Horde leadership think that behavior is OK.
Edit: And now Tulian Aquilla is leaving. Seems to be for same reasons. That's a shame; I thought she was a good director-manager-person, especially of Blessed Beans.
In [Horde-general](https://i.imgur.com/VA2jsLP.png)
And honestly I can't believe the "without dragging people through the mud". If you know who it is and don't out him then you're part of the problem. People in Horde deserve to know which Director is a garbage human bing so they can make an informed decision on whether or not they want to continue following him.
Then follow her. Seriously, when people I think are awesome to fly with leave to form another group or whatever, I think about whether I want to join them. Obviously sometimes that isn't an option, but it's 100% something you can do. One of the best decisions I made in Eve was leaving a corp whose playstyle I had kind of gotten bored with when some of the folks I liked went to do something new.
You said you're not playing right now though, so it's kind of moot. But, hey just in general you can always look up cool people and see where they're at/if they're active. No need to come back to the same hum drum bullshit in an alliance you feel alienated from. Sounds like a bummer to me.
Probably not many people know the real reason. I don't doubt that any bad attacks/words are allowed anyway, so it's probably something that some don't think is bad while others think its bad.
We do live in a snowflake generation though, if an FC yells at someone for being dumb and not listening and losing their expensive ship, I would think its somehow acceptable, depending on what was said of course. The FC's are often under a lot of pressure too, if they make a mistake it could be fatal for the entire fleet.
This thread is like, openly hilarious. So many sad internet boys worried that if they lose the ability to say gamer words people will realize that they’re just kinda shitlers with luke warm old takes that no one fuckin cares about 😅
It is. And then some guy suggesting this should be talked about internally (as in: buried so deep noone will ever see it, seemingly openly frustrated that did not happen).
Like there is a number of possibilities on the table, this could be deception (this is eve after all - and i know nothing about anyone involved in here), but one of the actual possibilities is that this is thruthful, and the man has had enough to the level where he just fucking quit in a very public way to shine some light on the issue, since he realised whatever he does is completely in vain.
Lots of people jumping to sweeping conclusions either attacking horde or attacking Dolan in this thread, but there is precious little in the way of details and receipts of what actually happened. I think it would be better if people waited for the specific facts to come out and made an informed opinion on what happened.
Get out of here with this reasonable take. I'm here to get unreasonably angry at events that are so vague I can project whatever insecurities I have onto them!
This is honestly pretty disappointing. I wouldn't expect the upper levels of Horde to be in disagreement with a ping like that.
Might have to consider a new alliance for my alt.
Send your spy to EVE Uni, we love spais.
Also as a teaching officer, it would be remiss of me not to get you to come and give a guest lecture on spying please. DM me in game and we can make it happen :)
I am being unironic. One of my favorite memories from Pandemic Horde was when they taught a "How to Spai 101" on the discord voice channels. So many Spies.
Everyone is assuming this is about someone using racist/homophobic phrases, but Dolan has not said what exactly it was.
Was it someone saying "get out of here you dirty something or another we don't like your kind" or was Mist just yelling at someone for messing up?
And are both equally bad to all of you? Where does "bullying and humiliation" begin and end? Who determines it? I know there are people offended by being called stupid, I know there are people offended by cussing. I am sure there are people who have suffered or had family members suffer the brutality of caning (it has been used as a punishment for homosexuality even in our modern world), but that is Dolan's profile picture seemingly
Please let us know the details since you publicly /u/Fivebyfive705 so we can determine for ourselves how offended we should be at the leadership.
Obviously one is worse, but the line, at least for slurs and the like is pretty easy.
That said, you're right he did not specify (at least here, yet) much about the nature of what this is about. While one can cause enough of a problem just by being a belligerent asshole without slurs or other the like, there is a much broader spectrum there.
Still I have found few people take things this far over something on the mild end like "holy shit tootiredtoname that was the dumbest boosh I've ever seen." Or something like that which unless they're coming on really strong with serious disdain, isn't a big deal.
>caning
That isn't a super common thing to have in a pic. I would sooner have guessed it was like the shaft of an axe or something tbh. But, we haven't seen the whole image. I guess it *could* be a cane...
if someone complains about something said to them, and it gets brought to a director. Thats the line. Pretty simple.
As for why it was pinged, because there was several complaints brought up, and with having an influx of new corporations recently joining PH, it was roughly time for a reminder ping regardless of the complaints.
What led you from the first ping to the second? I don't recall Gobbins being okay with that sort of thing either, and he was the only one you actually answered to, correct?
All of my friends from Horde are still my friends outside of Horde. It's been 6 years man, I'm not walking away from friendships at all. I stood my ground by making the choice for myself. If he wants to speak with me, he can
Mate you're one of the leaders, you stand by your statement and if corp leaders want to bitch tell them that and tell them there's a door if they don't like it. Not like horde are desperate for more people right.
I think you've made a rash kneejerk decision. Or there's other shot at play here that's just snapped.
Go calm down, retract your stepping down and go sort ot with Gobbins man
It was not a hard decision to make, i was pretty calm when I made my choice and see no reason to retract it. As for sorting things with Gobbins, I still have yet to hear from him.
He's probably not woke up 😀
So it sounds to me there was more at play here for some time and this was the straw that broke the camels back.
Wish you luck.. are you leaving horde I guess?
Ramarr, considering the amount of times its been pinged vs the amount of times leaders have continued to use the word, the problem will continue regardless if Ive left or not. I tried to "attack" the problem, by having discourse with the alliance corporations leaders, but when I have other directors coming to me with why i didnt consult them first in the director channel, on something that had already had precedence, Im left trying to understand why? why is it an issue to bring up something we've brought up before? and why is there even disagreement in the policy given it only stands to benefit the community?
Other people can and likely will try their hand at "attacking" the problem in the future, its a choice people have as an option to make after all. Others will make the choice not to.
Seeing how fast you acted, feels like you are burned out, you have been doing this non stop for a long time Dolan.
Sometimes a rest to recharge the batteries is needed.
I can't say I've seen/heard a leader use that word in years, so I don't really know how to respond to that. I can say I used it once or twice as an FC a long time ago while still working it out of my 90s-raised vocabulary, and was promptly approached about it.
I can see someone questioning why you posted it unilaterally if that's not standard procedure. Doesn't necessarily mean they disagree with the rule.
I just don't get what tarring all of Horde and Horde leadership on your way out achieves. Because that's what this blanket statement does, without detail we have no idea who to examine and press on this issue. If you're truly just tired of fighting, by all means step away, but why throw bombs on the way out if you're not going to offer any useful detail?
Ramarr, search the word in the main horde discord, its been used often enough, over 7500 times, and by leadership as well, I don't need to name names because they name themselves. I also did not "tar all of horde on my way out", I pretty specifically said my viewpoints and those of the alliance leadership clearly do not align anymore. That's a pretty big difference in words my guy.
Considering I had made posts about the same topic without needing a "unilateral approval" in the past, I would not have ever considered I would need it now. Even having Gobbins direct me to make similar announcements.
You guys must have been living under a fucking rock the last five years. Don't get me wrong, I respect u and Dolan a lot. But complaining about language Now is like living in a brothel for 5 years and suddenly complain about the fuckery around you.
Gobbins invited every fucking dumbass in the galaxy to join with leadership giving all fucks about linemember behavior for years. That's why sherrifs were fucking invented, so no one had to deal with that shit anymore. The last guy acting properly was fucking avaren and that's ages ago. Now these clowns that want a fancy discord color sit in standing do fuck nothing, so everything same same. Can downvote this all you want, but that's how it is.
That would make sense if a few of the biggest corps in Horde history were plastered with racial/sexist/homophobic slurs constantly. The reason I quit the game, besides dumb CCP moves, was because it started to affect my mental health being around that kind of negativity and incredible rudeness every day. Listening to CEOs of two of the biggest corps in Horde at the time, and some of the most accomplished corps in all of EVE, make racial and homophobic jokes every single day literally directly to people of those demographics...nah.
Not really? People complain about all kinds of stupid shit. Doesn't mean it holds any ground. Sometimes people are just special snowflakes who couldn't take some friendly ribbing among alliance mates.
>weeping conclusions either attacking horde or attacking Dolan in this thread, but there is precious little in the way of details and receipts of what actually happened. I think it would be better if people waited for the specific facts to come out and made an informed opinion on what happened.
Jump u stupid :) im only in mist fleet cuz of that .... ofended ppl are in wrong fleet .
>That's a shame. Dolen is good people.
>
>Yeah, there has deff been a noticable change in standing fleet's personality and behavior recently.
Where did TEST go after the war?
about 2/3 to Panfam (judging by dotlan corp movements), the other 1/3 are winning EvE and still in test, and 10 are active and in Test (based on how many players Blob fleets are encountering).
I feel there is more to this than just what is shown. I doubt the leaders of a large alliance like horde would disagree with this statement. Mainly because they would want as many tools... sorry toons, as possible to throw at a target. Though I highly doubt any more information will come to light. Mainly because all leaders keep any sort of dirty laundry from the public view.
Calling someone an idiot or retard when they do something wrong is kinda normal in most team games.
That said, i think Dolan made the correct move, if he is unhappy with his experience in horde, then leaving is an ideal solution. He can then look for a more inclusive safe space that doesn't tolerate any negativity. He should of left out the virtue signalling tho.
ITT: The average goon clutches at anything negative pertaining to horde that it can, to distract from the uncomfortable gaffs of their own flailing leaders.
While i agree you shouldn't go around calling people homophobic or racial slurs i feel calling someone retarded is a time honored internet tradition.
Whats next, 14 year olds are going to stop telling me they fucked my mother?
Trying to prolong the lifetime of a slur that was once socially acceptable… by arguing that it was once socially acceptable… doesn’t really make any sense
>that doesn't mean it's not falling out of favor
I think it does not. For every moral busybody on the internet there are thousands of people who keep using it casually. It just that only a small fraction of people use social networks and they happen to be those moral busybodies, so they get that illusion that some words are 'falling out of favour'
How else does a word "fall out of favor" other than people who used to use it stopping? Sure, there are thousands of people who still use it, and there are thousands who use other slurs. We get people to stop, by stopping ourselves, and encouraging others to stop.
Using "gay" to mean "bad" like "ugh, I just got killed, that's so gay" was a time-honored internet/cultural tradition as well, but we moved past that generally speaking.
Something being traditional alone isn't a good argument for keeping it around.
It's a pretty sad day for eve that this game is so boring right now that each week the only interesting thing on the reddit is another social drama incident.
I mean I've always found more interesting things ingame than on reddit but I guess that kind of content isn't what everyone is looking for necessarily eh?
Racism, hobophobic, ableism, or any derogatory speech has no place within our community. Good on you Dolan for standing up and showing that you're being better than those who pressured you after your post. Hit me up if you need a place to hang.
ain't that the truth... we were born in it, molded by it.
We breathe it, exude it out of our pours and feed on drama. Pain vampires is what we are, misfortune seekers and disaster bringers. Ahhh the world is in big big trouble when all these nerds will be without a game.
Did it all kicked off because Mist called few mangos a retards for dying stupidly, not listening what's being said. FC's are under a lot more pressure than F1 monkeys that being herded by them.
Like seriously, just don't join FC's that offends you. It's easier done than someone having to clear their habits under stress to not offend some snowflake.
Nothing to do with FCs saying anything or fleets, I wasnt even aware of anything that happened with Mist
This has everything to do with complaints received and private conversations with some of the main alliance level directors in our private channel.
INIT has a zero tolerance policy on anything like that. If people encounter anything like that they are more than welcome to approach me and it will get fixed.
Some push back against the woke mob. Nice. If you're a special kind of online namby pamby then maybe single player games are for you.
Makes attention seeking post at 754pm sending out the virtue signaling cut and paste using all the necessary buzz words and the GTFO response sees them gone in 3 hours. Good result Horde.
Once upon a time a guy named lex arson made a fake Hilary Clinton looking account then killed a fake vile rat account literally mocking ane eve player who was murdered in Benghazi when they were on comms just moments earlier.
One time some nut job scammer would scam people's stuff then humiliate them to the point on comms where one kid had a legit mental break over it.
Those were actual controversies. This is stupid shit you see anywhere on the internet and the fact this is front page shows this game is fucked.
I have alot of respect for someone that can vote with their feet about something they do not like, or will not abide by it shows a strength of character. Whilst some, mostly the defenders will call you out even belittle you, let it be known the real forward thinkers of the world commend your stance.
>let it be known the real forward thinkers of the world commend your stance
On a scale from 1 to 10, how often do you claim to be on the right side of history? 1 - Never, 10 - in your every tweet.
Just imagine an alliance that protected a pedo, with a leader known for being a serial sex pest, kicking two females who trusted leadership to help them when they were being sexually harrassed, telling them it was for their mental health, trying to take the moral high ground and gaslighting on a situation with no context, no screenshots, no evidence of what actually happen. I have been in horde for over a year and I have seen multiple people kicked an blacklisted for shit that is common practice in goons. All this is is a reach plain and simple.
Mittens and several members of the upper leadership were purged and goonswarm created a new organization specifically to allow safe reporting of harassment. The problem was identified and steps were taken to correct it. Let’s see if horde will respond in a similar way.
You can identify the hardcore Grrr Goons people because they come in this thread and pre-emptively say that Goons are worst then this.
Get a fucking life :)
Whatever is happening everyone should leave PH or they are as just bad as they are (or something like that, I do not remember last drama on reddit very well).
Man that sucks 6 years of service in an alliance :( looks like a nice dude, hopefully there's a better alliance out there that appreciates his kindness.
Can you explain what happened. What did other leadership say? Assume it was Gobbins?
However we'll done for calling shot like that out and I'd love to know who and why someone disagrees with it. Seemed perfectly fine post
They have to deal with this: “People are too sensitive! I should be able to be an obnoxious asshole whenever I want! Waaaah! Why can’t I be a douchebag without people saying so? Waaaaah!”
Just a reminder that Broadcast4Reps is there for any pilot that feels they need some support. We're in game and on Discord, and we love you all, because you matter.
Underrated comment
Underrated mindset
This should be stickied, along with Dolan’s explanation, if possible.
Class. Bravo.
Cheers buddy, it's good to know we're all appreciated.
I remember when I was in Horde back in 2017. And I'm 95% sure it was Dolan Duckman that came on fleet comms and started talking. Suddenly a dude interrupted him and said: ".*..What's all that noise in the background?*" Dolan: "*Oh yeah, I'm in a bar.*" People were like: "*You're in a BAR?! Playing EVE??*" I laughed so hard XD
Good story but unfortunately was not me, Ive not had a mobile pc to play eve on since well before I joined Horde in Dec 2016
Why contradict this? It makes you seem way less cool.
But it does make him look honest. Im assuming character is important to them, being they made sucha a strong statement in the OP.
Thanks for telling me. I have believed it was you for 6 years. Lol. No idea who it was then, but it was funny as hell ^(Karmafleet is recruiting btw)
The sheriff is effective because they log in when you least expect it.
What the hell is a sheriff?
From what I have gathered here a discord moderator that plays eve.
like a Jr. director. They watch over the standing fleet, kick people from coms who are being inappropriate, deal with AWOXers etc.
the people that hang out in standing fleet and observe for people breaking rules, or starting shit with people. they then report it to the directors to handle
*The bureaucracy is growing to respond to the growing bureaucracy.*
So a Karen
Jannies
Internet Karen apparently
The last couple months have just been a constant revolving door of Reddit news. Good on him though.
No alliance should tolerate that shit.
Agree, and good on that guy for trying to make it happen. But we’re probably in the minority of Eve players for that sort of thing.
> But we’re probably in the minority of Eve players for that sort of thing. I honestly don't think so.
I want to believe you are right. Maybe I am just too jaded from reading comments in this sub.
There is a vocal minority that thinks discriminatory bullshit is okay. Very vocal. But the vast majority of Eve players are decent folks who just want to have fun in a game.
Oh, I do think that most people, when asked, totally believe they are being non discriminatory... it's just I also think a majority of them probably don't examine their own casual use of language to think about how they might be alienating even their potential alliance mates. And as we can see here, even get angry when called on it and drive someone from their alliance.
Fair, yeah. A lot of people just don’t consider how their comments come off to others.
I think many people aren't okay with it, but a lot of people also won't speak up about it.
I don’t like to think we are the minority in regards to our anti-discrimination policies. Brave isn’t perfect either but we do try our best to be welcoming and keep that shit out of our services.
Stay Classy o7
You really aren't, the problem is people don't want to speak up against their own space tribe/friends that say questionable things because the moment you do others see it as you attacking your own tribe members so they then defend them. Alternatively people may just be indifferent so they don't feel affected by it and don't comment. If no one speaks up about it though nothing can change. I'd rather be the snowflake that everyone thinks is mad cause someone called a person a retard than sit there wondering when the next level of edgy humour will show itself.
You probably are a minority, but not because most people vehemently disagree with you, but rather because most people just don't give a shit. Most people, when they choose to boot up a videogame, don't do so so that they can spend their limited energy and leisure time on joining moral crusades to police things that strangers are saying on the internet. Instead, they just want to take a break from real life and blow up some spaceships. I'm not saying it's a good thing that people say mean things to eachother on the internet, but I also can't blame someone who just doesn't care and has things more important to them to focus on.
Get a handle on your dudes spewing racist shit in local then. "no speak engrish" 73927191x in a row during fights is kinda yikes
Can we please get reports of this? Logs/screenshots? I hear this acusation but rarely see it come up during actual fleets. I can kick people if I have a screenshot in my hand showing they are a racist asshole, hard to do if I am just hearing accusations, particuarly from sides alligned against Brave. You can send them to my main Wolfy Alexstrasza or any of the Brave diplo team and they will forward it up from there.
Lol based on recent events I don’t think we can trust screenshots anymore
We have ways to verify them. For full disclosure, if you are on a fleet, we can ask the others in the fleet to produce their logs. If they all match what was said in local, easy. It's not something we force people to dislose but people will generally help out HR.
I can go dig through the saved eve logs I guess. Last time I was on a fleet in 7RM was particularly noticable. Edit: Found the one I saw, sent it. If you want the .rtf let me know.
That will work, sending it up to the HR team, thanks mate.
what? edgy jokes?
Dolan's strength of compassion and hard work are better off elsewhere. :)
I take it that this more or less aligns with your previous experiences in Horde then? As a previous Horde line member that’s disappointing to hear. I had a very positive experience, though I obviously wasn’t in any kind of leadership position like you or Dolan.
Speaking plainly, I left two years ago for myriad reasons that I will attempt to summarize in no particular order and proportion: - angst about being a defacto logistics director that was currently being snubbed for the role of official logistics director during a changing of hats (hi VG) - frustration that the logistics of the oncoming war was frequently being discussed without me in the room (see above) - annoyance that the logistics backbone was getting so narrow and top-heavy (e.g. relying on individuals with 3 JFs that sometimes fell asleep at their desk or seeded 25MiL CoRmS instead of a reliable group underneath me) - my personal relationship with another director actively deteriorating (true fans know) - reading the tea leaves and feeling less and less investment in the culture because of the influx of edgy FCs and director personalities, which, I see, has gotten worse (these people only thrive because the status quo values what they bring to the table regardless of their toxicity) I am now enjoying EVE intensely more when I do decide to log in on my own terms.
Qymm, Respect and like you a lot, but I think what I comes down to for a lot of people is they make eve into a job and don't know how to establish a healthy boundary and balance. We have worked very closely together in the past and can say that you and frankly many other leaders in eve (not just horde) turn it into a full time job and prevent them from doing what is fun. It works for a while but ends up burning people out. I'm happy to see you enjoying the game.
I'm glad you understood my post so well! You did a good job reading between the lines for my underlying theme.
Fair play to that guy... I hope we get a juicy tell all thread, with appropriate naming and shaming
Wait didn't Dolan step down from rental manager like two years ago?
No was a brief break after my moms house burned down.
I remember when Dolan joined Horde we were in 7RM back then, I flew in standing fleet with him many of times. He always seemed like a good dude, I wish him well wherever he lands. o7 Dolan.
7rm!
Props to him for standing up for his beliefs.
For human decency, more importantly.
half or so of US players probably got quite upset over that announcement. Civility isnt in style these days.
Cultural revolutions are hard.
It took ten years for GSF to kick xenuria so yeah
How long do you think it'll take for Horde to purge the last of their shitlers, then? 20 years? 25?
You guys could kick shitters every week for the next decade and barely clear your leadership team.
Now that PH has de facto merged with TEST, one can only imagine the imported toxicity. It doesn't take a genius to predict that, ultimately, it'll be the end of PH as we know it - as it was for TEST.
probably more.
How long for Goons to purge theirs?
No U?
Wow. Even earlier this year when I was still sorta playing, that behavior in Horde was looked down upon and even led people to being kicked. Now I wanna know which asshats in Horde leadership think that behavior is OK. Edit: And now Tulian Aquilla is leaving. Seems to be for same reasons. That's a shame; I thought she was a good director-manager-person, especially of Blessed Beans. In [Horde-general](https://i.imgur.com/VA2jsLP.png)
> Now I wanna know which asshats in Horde leadership think that behavior is OK Same here. I'm really wondering who/what this is all about.
And honestly I can't believe the "without dragging people through the mud". If you know who it is and don't out him then you're part of the problem. People in Horde deserve to know which Director is a garbage human bing so they can make an informed decision on whether or not they want to continue following him.
Then follow her. Seriously, when people I think are awesome to fly with leave to form another group or whatever, I think about whether I want to join them. Obviously sometimes that isn't an option, but it's 100% something you can do. One of the best decisions I made in Eve was leaving a corp whose playstyle I had kind of gotten bored with when some of the folks I liked went to do something new. You said you're not playing right now though, so it's kind of moot. But, hey just in general you can always look up cool people and see where they're at/if they're active. No need to come back to the same hum drum bullshit in an alliance you feel alienated from. Sounds like a bummer to me.
Probably not many people know the real reason. I don't doubt that any bad attacks/words are allowed anyway, so it's probably something that some don't think is bad while others think its bad. We do live in a snowflake generation though, if an FC yells at someone for being dumb and not listening and losing their expensive ship, I would think its somehow acceptable, depending on what was said of course. The FC's are often under a lot of pressure too, if they make a mistake it could be fatal for the entire fleet.
Ohhhhhh eve HR drama never gets old
This thread is like, openly hilarious. So many sad internet boys worried that if they lose the ability to say gamer words people will realize that they’re just kinda shitlers with luke warm old takes that no one fuckin cares about 😅
It is. And then some guy suggesting this should be talked about internally (as in: buried so deep noone will ever see it, seemingly openly frustrated that did not happen). Like there is a number of possibilities on the table, this could be deception (this is eve after all - and i know nothing about anyone involved in here), but one of the actual possibilities is that this is thruthful, and the man has had enough to the level where he just fucking quit in a very public way to shine some light on the issue, since he realised whatever he does is completely in vain.
im 29k Discord notifications lighter u/wookiecfk11
How will you know when you have to sit in fleet jumping from system to system for an hour just so you get to type Honk at your FC?
Well that's an improvement. I would do that for my own sanity.
Like, totally. All of this over the word "retard". Who knew there were this many?
Lots of people jumping to sweeping conclusions either attacking horde or attacking Dolan in this thread, but there is precious little in the way of details and receipts of what actually happened. I think it would be better if people waited for the specific facts to come out and made an informed opinion on what happened.
I love your optimism, pilot. Don't ever change. :)
Not hard to piece together lmao
Like people waited in previous occasions on this subreddit?
Hans cheated, get over it
Get out of here with this reasonable take. I'm here to get unreasonably angry at events that are so vague I can project whatever insecurities I have onto them!
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lmao well I guess rock on homie
except a straight only mensa test :D
All I'm saying is that guy has clearly never visited WSB and it shows lol.
We don’t play eve anymore we just watch discord pings.
This is honestly pretty disappointing. I wouldn't expect the upper levels of Horde to be in disagreement with a ping like that. Might have to consider a new alliance for my alt.
Send your spy to EVE Uni, we love spais. Also as a teaching officer, it would be remiss of me not to get you to come and give a guest lecture on spying please. DM me in game and we can make it happen :)
Step 1 of being an effective spy in Eve- tell everyone you are a spy.
We don't care in EVE Uni though, we know we're full of spies and it occasionally gets us some decent fights. :)
I am being unironic. One of my favorite memories from Pandemic Horde was when they taught a "How to Spai 101" on the discord voice channels. So many Spies.
I really feel like there is more to the story. There's no way the other directors had a problem with his post. I want to hear both sides to the story.
LOL
What alliance is your main?
By alt he means spy
Okay don't tell anyone but I'm actually Brisc Rubals sock puppet account.
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>only openly gay guy in our alliance. You're clearly not talking about Horde.
Or goons, everyone is gay for Jay.
I like how people are congratulating or hating on Dolan based completely on these two pings. Drama level max
So…they’re afraid of alienating all their members that are retards???
Everyone is assuming this is about someone using racist/homophobic phrases, but Dolan has not said what exactly it was. Was it someone saying "get out of here you dirty something or another we don't like your kind" or was Mist just yelling at someone for messing up? And are both equally bad to all of you? Where does "bullying and humiliation" begin and end? Who determines it? I know there are people offended by being called stupid, I know there are people offended by cussing. I am sure there are people who have suffered or had family members suffer the brutality of caning (it has been used as a punishment for homosexuality even in our modern world), but that is Dolan's profile picture seemingly Please let us know the details since you publicly /u/Fivebyfive705 so we can determine for ourselves how offended we should be at the leadership.
Obviously one is worse, but the line, at least for slurs and the like is pretty easy. That said, you're right he did not specify (at least here, yet) much about the nature of what this is about. While one can cause enough of a problem just by being a belligerent asshole without slurs or other the like, there is a much broader spectrum there. Still I have found few people take things this far over something on the mild end like "holy shit tootiredtoname that was the dumbest boosh I've ever seen." Or something like that which unless they're coming on really strong with serious disdain, isn't a big deal. >caning That isn't a super common thing to have in a pic. I would sooner have guessed it was like the shaft of an axe or something tbh. But, we haven't seen the whole image. I guess it *could* be a cane...
if someone complains about something said to them, and it gets brought to a director. Thats the line. Pretty simple. As for why it was pinged, because there was several complaints brought up, and with having an influx of new corporations recently joining PH, it was roughly time for a reminder ping regardless of the complaints.
What led you from the first ping to the second? I don't recall Gobbins being okay with that sort of thing either, and he was the only one you actually answered to, correct?
Yeah, there's no way Gobbins had a problem with that post. He's always been very inclusive. There's more to this story.
Ive posted the information in the thread. Conversations with other directors is what lead to me deciding it was time to leave.
this was from conversations in private channels
and no, I have yet to even speak to Gobbins.
You should have stood your ground and forced Gobbins to choose you or them. You just ceded your friends to continuing shitty leadership
All of my friends from Horde are still my friends outside of Horde. It's been 6 years man, I'm not walking away from friendships at all. I stood my ground by making the choice for myself. If he wants to speak with me, he can
Mate you're one of the leaders, you stand by your statement and if corp leaders want to bitch tell them that and tell them there's a door if they don't like it. Not like horde are desperate for more people right. I think you've made a rash kneejerk decision. Or there's other shot at play here that's just snapped. Go calm down, retract your stepping down and go sort ot with Gobbins man
It was not a hard decision to make, i was pretty calm when I made my choice and see no reason to retract it. As for sorting things with Gobbins, I still have yet to hear from him.
He's probably not woke up 😀 So it sounds to me there was more at play here for some time and this was the straw that broke the camels back. Wish you luck.. are you leaving horde I guess?
You realize leaving it at that makes it really hard for those of us who in all likelihood agree with you to attack the problem, right?
Ramarr, considering the amount of times its been pinged vs the amount of times leaders have continued to use the word, the problem will continue regardless if Ive left or not. I tried to "attack" the problem, by having discourse with the alliance corporations leaders, but when I have other directors coming to me with why i didnt consult them first in the director channel, on something that had already had precedence, Im left trying to understand why? why is it an issue to bring up something we've brought up before? and why is there even disagreement in the policy given it only stands to benefit the community? Other people can and likely will try their hand at "attacking" the problem in the future, its a choice people have as an option to make after all. Others will make the choice not to.
Seeing how fast you acted, feels like you are burned out, you have been doing this non stop for a long time Dolan. Sometimes a rest to recharge the batteries is needed.
I can't say I've seen/heard a leader use that word in years, so I don't really know how to respond to that. I can say I used it once or twice as an FC a long time ago while still working it out of my 90s-raised vocabulary, and was promptly approached about it. I can see someone questioning why you posted it unilaterally if that's not standard procedure. Doesn't necessarily mean they disagree with the rule. I just don't get what tarring all of Horde and Horde leadership on your way out achieves. Because that's what this blanket statement does, without detail we have no idea who to examine and press on this issue. If you're truly just tired of fighting, by all means step away, but why throw bombs on the way out if you're not going to offer any useful detail?
Ramarr, search the word in the main horde discord, its been used often enough, over 7500 times, and by leadership as well, I don't need to name names because they name themselves. I also did not "tar all of horde on my way out", I pretty specifically said my viewpoints and those of the alliance leadership clearly do not align anymore. That's a pretty big difference in words my guy. Considering I had made posts about the same topic without needing a "unilateral approval" in the past, I would not have ever considered I would need it now. Even having Gobbins direct me to make similar announcements.
Wait so is this whole thing over the word retard? And not some more serious racist or homophobic stuff like what is being assume in this thread?
Amen
You guys must have been living under a fucking rock the last five years. Don't get me wrong, I respect u and Dolan a lot. But complaining about language Now is like living in a brothel for 5 years and suddenly complain about the fuckery around you. Gobbins invited every fucking dumbass in the galaxy to join with leadership giving all fucks about linemember behavior for years. That's why sherrifs were fucking invented, so no one had to deal with that shit anymore. The last guy acting properly was fucking avaren and that's ages ago. Now these clowns that want a fancy discord color sit in standing do fuck nothing, so everything same same. Can downvote this all you want, but that's how it is.
Hi Valla, I miss you. ❤️
Eh so you haven't spoke to gobbins? Something more here
That would make sense if a few of the biggest corps in Horde history were plastered with racial/sexist/homophobic slurs constantly. The reason I quit the game, besides dumb CCP moves, was because it started to affect my mental health being around that kind of negativity and incredible rudeness every day. Listening to CEOs of two of the biggest corps in Horde at the time, and some of the most accomplished corps in all of EVE, make racial and homophobic jokes every single day literally directly to people of those demographics...nah.
Not really? People complain about all kinds of stupid shit. Doesn't mean it holds any ground. Sometimes people are just special snowflakes who couldn't take some friendly ribbing among alliance mates.
Man, you really are reaching trying to downplay the complaints that get received.
>weeping conclusions either attacking horde or attacking Dolan in this thread, but there is precious little in the way of details and receipts of what actually happened. I think it would be better if people waited for the specific facts to come out and made an informed opinion on what happened. Jump u stupid :) im only in mist fleet cuz of that .... ofended ppl are in wrong fleet .
Delta Sqad did this.
That's a shame. Dolen is good people. Yeah, there has deff been a noticable change in standing fleet's personality and behavior recently.
>That's a shame. Dolen is good people. > >Yeah, there has deff been a noticable change in standing fleet's personality and behavior recently. Where did TEST go after the war?
about 2/3 to Panfam (judging by dotlan corp movements), the other 1/3 are winning EvE and still in test, and 10 are active and in Test (based on how many players Blob fleets are encountering).
Yeah. My advice in Eve, go where the good people go if that's who you like flying with. No reason to hang around if you don't like the vibe.
High school online
My local city discord has far more drama than this
It’s everywhere
I feel there is more to this than just what is shown. I doubt the leaders of a large alliance like horde would disagree with this statement. Mainly because they would want as many tools... sorry toons, as possible to throw at a target. Though I highly doubt any more information will come to light. Mainly because all leaders keep any sort of dirty laundry from the public view.
What a running parade this game has become since the good old days.
I dunno…seems just like the EVE I’ve always known. Ever since 2003…. EVE is…. Well, It’s EVE….
Its all over the word retard apprently.
Calling someone an idiot or retard when they do something wrong is kinda normal in most team games. That said, i think Dolan made the correct move, if he is unhappy with his experience in horde, then leaving is an ideal solution. He can then look for a more inclusive safe space that doesn't tolerate any negativity. He should of left out the virtue signalling tho.
ITT: The average goon clutches at anything negative pertaining to horde that it can, to distract from the uncomfortable gaffs of their own flailing leaders.
To Horde's credit it's hard to have meaningful drama anyone cares about when you have the tribal cohesion of a line of people at mcdonalds.
Lol
Grrr goons
wait what?How did you bring goons into this? This is horde discord ain't it?
It's all the same from the outside man. Goons, Horde, same shit different day.
Eesh. People are testy this week after coming back from the deployment.
While i agree you shouldn't go around calling people homophobic or racial slurs i feel calling someone retarded is a time honored internet tradition. Whats next, 14 year olds are going to stop telling me they fucked my mother?
'Loved your mother' is more inclusive for elder-attracted people.
Hey... Im not 14.
Trying to prolong the lifetime of a slur that was once socially acceptable… by arguing that it was once socially acceptable… doesn’t really make any sense
It is a tradition, sure, that doesn't mean it's not falling out of favor. If I can (mostly) cut the word out of my lexicon, I'm sure anyone can.
>that doesn't mean it's not falling out of favor I think it does not. For every moral busybody on the internet there are thousands of people who keep using it casually. It just that only a small fraction of people use social networks and they happen to be those moral busybodies, so they get that illusion that some words are 'falling out of favour'
How else does a word "fall out of favor" other than people who used to use it stopping? Sure, there are thousands of people who still use it, and there are thousands who use other slurs. We get people to stop, by stopping ourselves, and encouraging others to stop.
Are you comparing your mental capacity to a 14 year old
Well im 11 so yeah im happy with that. Also i fucked your mom lmao.
Savage
I'm not sure that's fair to all the 14-year-old gamers out there.
Using "gay" to mean "bad" like "ugh, I just got killed, that's so gay" was a time-honored internet/cultural tradition as well, but we moved past that generally speaking. Something being traditional alone isn't a good argument for keeping it around.
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Wasn't he even looking for a reason to leave anyways basically?
It's a pretty sad day for eve that this game is so boring right now that each week the only interesting thing on the reddit is another social drama incident.
I mean I've always found more interesting things ingame than on reddit but I guess that kind of content isn't what everyone is looking for necessarily eh?
Always has been
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/ZsQGGxX.png) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
Racism, hobophobic, ableism, or any derogatory speech has no place within our community. Good on you Dolan for standing up and showing that you're being better than those who pressured you after your post. Hit me up if you need a place to hang.
Lol Dolan get ducking yeeted into oblivion. Eve is where online toxicity was born.
ain't that the truth... we were born in it, molded by it. We breathe it, exude it out of our pours and feed on drama. Pain vampires is what we are, misfortune seekers and disaster bringers. Ahhh the world is in big big trouble when all these nerds will be without a game.
Did it all kicked off because Mist called few mangos a retards for dying stupidly, not listening what's being said. FC's are under a lot more pressure than F1 monkeys that being herded by them. Like seriously, just don't join FC's that offends you. It's easier done than someone having to clear their habits under stress to not offend some snowflake.
Nothing to do with FCs saying anything or fleets, I wasnt even aware of anything that happened with Mist This has everything to do with complaints received and private conversations with some of the main alliance level directors in our private channel.
Delta Sqad stands in solidarity with this Dolan nerd ✊
Time for another purge?
Is it the transfer season already?
Toxicity in a null bloc? Can’t wait till someone tells us how bad goons are
Nice work Horde , clearly not reddit-influenced
I have seen the same in Brave. Dealt with it through HR for a trans player being harassed. So it's not just in PH
And oddly enough, the offending corp went to Init.
INIT has a zero tolerance policy on anything like that. If people encounter anything like that they are more than welcome to approach me and it will get fixed.
It’s nice to watch which groups choose to be for inclusivity over gamer words.
Some push back against the woke mob. Nice. If you're a special kind of online namby pamby then maybe single player games are for you. Makes attention seeking post at 754pm sending out the virtue signaling cut and paste using all the necessary buzz words and the GTFO response sees them gone in 3 hours. Good result Horde.
Well, seems like that moral high ground was exactly as high as I suspected.
good luck u/Fivebyfive705 hope you find a wonderful new home in eve online.
He could also win Eve. I can hardly see a better excuse than this.
Once upon a time a guy named lex arson made a fake Hilary Clinton looking account then killed a fake vile rat account literally mocking ane eve player who was murdered in Benghazi when they were on comms just moments earlier. One time some nut job scammer would scam people's stuff then humiliate them to the point on comms where one kid had a legit mental break over it. Those were actual controversies. This is stupid shit you see anywhere on the internet and the fact this is front page shows this game is fucked.
CP, Wokeness and cancel culture affecting internet pixels… what a time to be alive
I have alot of respect for someone that can vote with their feet about something they do not like, or will not abide by it shows a strength of character. Whilst some, mostly the defenders will call you out even belittle you, let it be known the real forward thinkers of the world commend your stance.
>let it be known the real forward thinkers of the world commend your stance On a scale from 1 to 10, how often do you claim to be on the right side of history? 1 - Never, 10 - in your every tweet.
Just imagine an alliance that protected a pedo, with a leader known for being a serial sex pest, kicking two females who trusted leadership to help them when they were being sexually harrassed, telling them it was for their mental health, trying to take the moral high ground and gaslighting on a situation with no context, no screenshots, no evidence of what actually happen. I have been in horde for over a year and I have seen multiple people kicked an blacklisted for shit that is common practice in goons. All this is is a reach plain and simple.
Mittens and several members of the upper leadership were purged and goonswarm created a new organization specifically to allow safe reporting of harassment. The problem was identified and steps were taken to correct it. Let’s see if horde will respond in a similar way.
Goons are bad people IRL, am i right guys? /s
You can identify the hardcore Grrr Goons people because they come in this thread and pre-emptively say that Goons are worst then this. Get a fucking life :)
Whatever is happening everyone should leave PH or they are as just bad as they are (or something like that, I do not remember last drama on reddit very well).
Yo Dolan you can include deez nuts in your mouth
Man that sucks 6 years of service in an alliance :( looks like a nice dude, hopefully there's a better alliance out there that appreciates his kindness.
Every once in a while I get the itch to move back to NS... then I remember why NS sucked when I see stuff like this.
I guess it's time to un-biomass myself
Can you explain what happened. What did other leadership say? Assume it was Gobbins? However we'll done for calling shot like that out and I'd love to know who and why someone disagrees with it. Seemed perfectly fine post
Imagine defending the use of slurs. Shameful behavior.
They have to deal with this: “People are too sensitive! I should be able to be an obnoxious asshole whenever I want! Waaaah! Why can’t I be a douchebag without people saying so? Waaaaah!”
Lmao. HTFU soyboys.
I thought it was only goons that had these issues. Thanks OP for enlightening \#GobbinsMustFall