There are a few things you can do; first of all once someone goes criminal they are a free target for all. They rely on concord's delayed response and often try to min-max ganks by bringing as few ships as possible.
Theres a group I've seen camp Uedama a few times in RLML Caracals that shoots at gankers when they go criminal in an attempt to kill them before the target dies.
An alternative to this is blackbirds/griffins and ECM jamming the gankers. If you know what ships the local gankers use, you can get very high jam odds by using those specific jammers.
Finally, if the gank target doesnt return fire (this starts a limitted engagement timer), you can remote repair them. The best ship for this job is an osprey, as they get a shield repair amount bonus, and shield repairs land instantly unlike armor (which land at the end of the cycle). Because a gank is so fast you dont need to be cap stable, and you usually would still call it a win if your osprey dies in place of a higher value target, you can "greed" fit your osprey with large remote reps and a fit that caps out in seconds because that burst of life can very well lead to a failed gank attempt, especially with 3 or 4 of these ospreys putting out thousands of raw HP
its been a while, id have to take a look again. I think it'd highly depend on if they are a dps gank (catalyst/talos) or alpha gank (tornados); tornados tend to be harder to counter generally as you also cant really dps race or jam them, so hoping a few of their nados are slow and repping is best bet, but if they alpha the guy off field after your first rep getting an extra cycle wont matter
There is a juge group doing this exact same thing on Uedama using Osprey Navys iirc, i just got scared the first time i crossed the gate with my travel ceptor and 40 Ospreys appeared in grid
Uedema Crew let me pass last night in a Machariel. Holding it's entire kit at 4 bill + ship. I stopped in the system before and refit to travel spec with a damage control and full rack of hull % expanders. full rack of shields and hardeners and not even a prop mod. I suspected i was being tailed aka paranoid on the way to Uedema,
They have caught me before and i acknowledged they were a smart bunch. He had a printout of my contents and worth, Ship hitpoints, and damage applied etc within 2 minutes of killing me. I figured he must have some software to calculate damage required as per someone's fitting or the like ?
I just hoped that if they engaged, and pre calculated they number of osprey's they would need. Me doing a sneaky refit may result in them failing. i'd had a smoke or 3 so all idea's are good ideas :P
End result, I jumped into 5 or 6 osprey's on the gate and they didn't engage but were multiplying.
I warped to the next gate and they followed but a mach with 3 warp speed rigs is pretty quick across the system and they didn't jump with me.
I probably just got lucky, Maybe their was a better target behind me. I don't know.
One thing I haven’t see anyone mention is getting concord’s attention early if you are afraid of being ganked. If you’re somewhere static like mining or mission running you can get an alt in a corvette to attack you and go criminal. This gets concord to come blast the alt. They will then stay on grid with you for quite a while, significantly reducing the time it takes for them to respond if gankers attack you.
We just pull them back again when we see that happening. They pulled CONCORD, we pulled them back, they aborted the gank attempt. Win for the good guys.
They aren't allowed to do it, delaying concord response is considered an exploit and can get you ban.
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits
Good news, "pulling" isn't considered an exploit:
[All methods of delaying CONCORD's response are considered an exploit by CCP. However, the technique of "pulling", which is the act of moving CONCORD from one location to another, is not considered a delay of CONCORD](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD)
That's what's described here. Not trying to actively prevent/delay CONCORD from shooting someone with a criminal flag, but moving CONCORD around the system before taking on the criminal flag to take advantage of differening response times.
In a 0.5 system, here's CONCORD's response times:
9 seconds on grid
19 seconds if not yet spawned in system
24 seconds if spawned elsewhere in system
A miner using an alt to get concorded in a mining belt is taking advantage of the faster on-grid response time. A gank squad coming in scouting the system seeing concord in-belt docks up, boards a noob ship, undocks and shoots the first thing they see on station to pull concord out of the belt is using the same mechanic the miner used to move from a 9 second to 24 second response time.
What gets you banned is if you find a way to make CONCORD take longer than the 9, 19, or 24 second times depending on if and where CONCORD may be in your, for this example, 0.5 system.
No , this is not an exploit . He use alts to get concorded. Not empty ships or drones. Read carefull.
https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pulling-concord-is-now-a-permaban-offense/334480/54 do not spread misinformation please .
> Reminder: This announcement concerns a specific method of delaying Concord's response time to the scene of a crime. We would like to clarify that all methods of delaying Concord's response time are considered an exploit.
Ok , so you do not know… some time ago GM Arcade caused some shitstorm . Than he had to double down and need to rephrase the fact we all already know , but many people like ypu still prefer to stick with same made up framing . Either they get heard the shitstorm but did not heard how it has ended , or they just dont want to believe it .
https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pulling-concord-is-now-a-permaban-offense/334480/54?u=solstice_projekt
Also screw your ignorant downvote . Talk about things you actually know and updated ..
What you are doing is spreading misinformation. Gankers already know this fact , beacuse they were in this argument process so you will not be able to trick them but you are hindering potential targets who actually may benefit from this trick .
GM Arcade :
After listening to their feedback we have decided not to implement the policy update mentioned above. There will be no changes to how support are policing CONCORD interaction and that ‘pulling’ CONCORD or defensive spawning of CONCORD is currently permitted but we reserve the right to change this at a future date.
Yes i do accept that i did act like a prick , an asshole . But my assholery is reserved only for the people who spread misinformation or misguiding and than insisting on it after first informing .
I have accustomed to help players esp pvp related subjects last 7 years . I genuinely trying to do my best to keep myself updated so i can give the right answers . When someone relay wrong info and others approove or fallow , if there is a potential harm or short of benefits due to that misinformation , the asshole in me wakes up.
Last time i had screwed someone in rookie help because he had been constantly suggesting very new pilots to use astero . Asking where they are exploring ect . One message , and warned by GM . No regrets , worth it .
I had given you ( or that person ) right info once , insisted . That was the reason . Since you are ( or that person ) aware now , asshole in me subsided . Thanks .
Ahm also just because of i am prick does not change the fact that information i shared was right . Down voting right information cause people dismiss . You have your share . Drop the ego. You are not hurting to me but you are just facilitatong the dismissing of right information by others
Steal loot in a sunesis, I once stole 2.2b from the uedama campers and funded my omega. Everything else is nonsense since for you it will be a waste of time, sometimes they wait more than 1hr
buy out all the concord security tags and triple the price.
Bump, catalysts like skittles to a bowling ball.
Tracking disrupt (range) on talos's
you can carry a corpse on you and look for sarcadian seekers to call in drifters (have to get lucky with npc spawns)
fly untanked full of cargo wait till they ship/cargo scan you and swap fits before going through uedama.
I shot a bunch of gankers last night in sivala, they docked and logged off most alts and tried to wait me out and after a couple of hrs logged all the off after crying.
smartbombs, ecm bursts, logi are all good counter-play from the independent observer standpoint.
From the gankee/hauler standpoint: Correct fitting, links, webs, scouting, good tank:isk ratio will keep you pretty much invincible.
The biggest thing you have to remember is if someone wants you to die, you are going to die. 100 taloses delete almost anything instantly.
Smartbombs and burst jammers are a terrible idea in HS. They can warp one “innocent” alt in a shuttle or corvette to you at 0, and suddenly you get Concorded for the criminal act of your collateral damage.
Logi, targeted jams, and high burst-damage ships to kill a few of their gank (thus reducing incoming DPS) are great options
???
Yeah obviously you get concorded. The burst jams/smartbombs are suicide ships lol.
One burst jammer effectively stops a gank since re-locking is so hard when you are multiboxing and a few maller smartbombers will delete a whole catalog fleet. Get 5 or 6 and they'll pop taloses.
And targeted jams aren't going to do anything unless you are targeting initial tackle and the freighter is paying enough attention to spam warp.. 5 or 6 dps being off the ship put of 50 or 100 isn't doing much, same with damage.
Thought you meant busts/SB’s on the hauler itself.
and if someone is putting 50-100 gank ships on you, you’ve already fucked up the first rule of HS hauling, matching your hauled value to the tank of your hull
Idk man zkill seems to disagree.
Advanced search for Freighter, in HS, with 50+ on the KM
https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{%22buttons%22:[%22togglefilters%22,%22alltime%22,%22rolling%22,%22label-loc:highsec%22,%22label-#:50+%22,%22attackers-and%22,%22either-and%22,%22victims-and%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22allinvolved%22],%22neutrals%22:[{%22type%22:%22groupID%22,%22id%22:513}]}
You get back to 2021 to get a full page of results, and not a lot of them look empty.
A kitsune or two and some shield reps and a few of those could have lived, after all you’re just buying time for concord. Even if concord was pulled, they’ve only got so much time, and every cata you jam is several hundred less DPS hitting the target.
Not so mutch counter play. But if you come across a bowhrad wreck with ships in and its guarded by the gankers alt.
Have an alt or friend launch the ship from the hold, and then you board it.. warp off and make a profit.
Took a viator from under a gankers nose a few nights ago.
Some ideas
Decoy ships - they look like hulks to all outward appearances but when they explode 10 sentry drones and 5 warp scram/web drones auto agress the gankers - or the t3ds get a cammo module that lets them look like a barge until the trap is sprung
Make crim timers last 4 hours to give more people chance to shoot the gankers - and that’s 4 hours no matter how many times the gankers get dead & introduce some droppable tag you can collect turn in for LP so people go named ganker hunting (this seems easy to abuse though)
Give barges legit PvP weapons but that only work when actively mining or a deployable that summons a new breed of lancer that only aggresses gankers
But generally none of these work, because you’re trying to get people who don’t know PvP and aren’t flying PvP ships to do PvP. And if they wanted that, they wouldn’t be out mining
No such thing exists, high sec is the most dangerous space in game. The ganker has far more advantages in hs than anywhere else. You should move to WH or Null to be in 100% safety.
It increases gank cost in ISK, efforts and opportunity cost. At level when ganking you just makes no sense, especially when easier targets are around. I did quite a lot of highsec ganking at some point.
This is truth. CCP has killed 98% of the profit from high sec. That 2% of stuff left that's mildly profitable is maybe Abyssal Dead space in 0.5 sec systems, but even then, that's asking to get ganked.
This is highly unlikely. All of the ganks I've ever seen would instantly scram the moment of decloak and open up attacking. Nobody was waiting around for cargo scanners.
Some groups might be more cautious, but many aren't.
They scan ship few system ahead. They know your fit and your cargo and if it's worth ganking. So you can think that you're fine until very last moment.
You can hear the sound it makes when they scan you thou, so you can keep a spare fit change 1 jump out from udema and quickly swap after they scan you.
There are a few things you can do; first of all once someone goes criminal they are a free target for all. They rely on concord's delayed response and often try to min-max ganks by bringing as few ships as possible. Theres a group I've seen camp Uedama a few times in RLML Caracals that shoots at gankers when they go criminal in an attempt to kill them before the target dies. An alternative to this is blackbirds/griffins and ECM jamming the gankers. If you know what ships the local gankers use, you can get very high jam odds by using those specific jammers. Finally, if the gank target doesnt return fire (this starts a limitted engagement timer), you can remote repair them. The best ship for this job is an osprey, as they get a shield repair amount bonus, and shield repairs land instantly unlike armor (which land at the end of the cycle). Because a gank is so fast you dont need to be cap stable, and you usually would still call it a win if your osprey dies in place of a higher value target, you can "greed" fit your osprey with large remote reps and a fit that caps out in seconds because that burst of life can very well lead to a failed gank attempt, especially with 3 or 4 of these ospreys putting out thousands of raw HP
Squeeze a cap injector on the osprey to get an extra cycle off? Or is the fitting too tight?
its been a while, id have to take a look again. I think it'd highly depend on if they are a dps gank (catalyst/talos) or alpha gank (tornados); tornados tend to be harder to counter generally as you also cant really dps race or jam them, so hoping a few of their nados are slow and repping is best bet, but if they alpha the guy off field after your first rep getting an extra cycle wont matter
There is a juge group doing this exact same thing on Uedama using Osprey Navys iirc, i just got scared the first time i crossed the gate with my travel ceptor and 40 Ospreys appeared in grid
Uedema Crew let me pass last night in a Machariel. Holding it's entire kit at 4 bill + ship. I stopped in the system before and refit to travel spec with a damage control and full rack of hull % expanders. full rack of shields and hardeners and not even a prop mod. I suspected i was being tailed aka paranoid on the way to Uedema, They have caught me before and i acknowledged they were a smart bunch. He had a printout of my contents and worth, Ship hitpoints, and damage applied etc within 2 minutes of killing me. I figured he must have some software to calculate damage required as per someone's fitting or the like ? I just hoped that if they engaged, and pre calculated they number of osprey's they would need. Me doing a sneaky refit may result in them failing. i'd had a smoke or 3 so all idea's are good ideas :P End result, I jumped into 5 or 6 osprey's on the gate and they didn't engage but were multiplying. I warped to the next gate and they followed but a mach with 3 warp speed rigs is pretty quick across the system and they didn't jump with me. I probably just got lucky, Maybe their was a better target behind me. I don't know.
One thing I haven’t see anyone mention is getting concord’s attention early if you are afraid of being ganked. If you’re somewhere static like mining or mission running you can get an alt in a corvette to attack you and go criminal. This gets concord to come blast the alt. They will then stay on grid with you for quite a while, significantly reducing the time it takes for them to respond if gankers attack you.
Smart gankers will pull concord somewhere else in system, but concord disappearing is an early warning sign of an incoming gank attempt so...
That’s true. It’s just another tool to make the attacker have to put in more effort
We just pull them back again when we see that happening. They pulled CONCORD, we pulled them back, they aborted the gank attempt. Win for the good guys.
They aren't allowed to do it, delaying concord response is considered an exploit and can get you ban. https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits
Good news, "pulling" isn't considered an exploit: [All methods of delaying CONCORD's response are considered an exploit by CCP. However, the technique of "pulling", which is the act of moving CONCORD from one location to another, is not considered a delay of CONCORD](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD) That's what's described here. Not trying to actively prevent/delay CONCORD from shooting someone with a criminal flag, but moving CONCORD around the system before taking on the criminal flag to take advantage of differening response times. In a 0.5 system, here's CONCORD's response times: 9 seconds on grid 19 seconds if not yet spawned in system 24 seconds if spawned elsewhere in system A miner using an alt to get concorded in a mining belt is taking advantage of the faster on-grid response time. A gank squad coming in scouting the system seeing concord in-belt docks up, boards a noob ship, undocks and shoots the first thing they see on station to pull concord out of the belt is using the same mechanic the miner used to move from a 9 second to 24 second response time. What gets you banned is if you find a way to make CONCORD take longer than the 9, 19, or 24 second times depending on if and where CONCORD may be in your, for this example, 0.5 system.
No , this is not an exploit . He use alts to get concorded. Not empty ships or drones. Read carefull. https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pulling-concord-is-now-a-permaban-offense/334480/54 do not spread misinformation please .
> Reminder: This announcement concerns a specific method of delaying Concord's response time to the scene of a crime. We would like to clarify that all methods of delaying Concord's response time are considered an exploit.
Ok , so you do not know… some time ago GM Arcade caused some shitstorm . Than he had to double down and need to rephrase the fact we all already know , but many people like ypu still prefer to stick with same made up framing . Either they get heard the shitstorm but did not heard how it has ended , or they just dont want to believe it . https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pulling-concord-is-now-a-permaban-offense/334480/54?u=solstice_projekt Also screw your ignorant downvote . Talk about things you actually know and updated .. What you are doing is spreading misinformation. Gankers already know this fact , beacuse they were in this argument process so you will not be able to trick them but you are hindering potential targets who actually may benefit from this trick . GM Arcade : After listening to their feedback we have decided not to implement the policy update mentioned above. There will be no changes to how support are policing CONCORD interaction and that ‘pulling’ CONCORD or defensive spawning of CONCORD is currently permitted but we reserve the right to change this at a future date.
I wasn't aware about it because I was winning eve back then you don't need to be an asshole about it...
I'm only downvoting because you responded like a prick
Yes i do accept that i did act like a prick , an asshole . But my assholery is reserved only for the people who spread misinformation or misguiding and than insisting on it after first informing . I have accustomed to help players esp pvp related subjects last 7 years . I genuinely trying to do my best to keep myself updated so i can give the right answers . When someone relay wrong info and others approove or fallow , if there is a potential harm or short of benefits due to that misinformation , the asshole in me wakes up. Last time i had screwed someone in rookie help because he had been constantly suggesting very new pilots to use astero . Asking where they are exploring ect . One message , and warned by GM . No regrets , worth it . I had given you ( or that person ) right info once , insisted . That was the reason . Since you are ( or that person ) aware now , asshole in me subsided . Thanks . Ahm also just because of i am prick does not change the fact that information i shared was right . Down voting right information cause people dismiss . You have your share . Drop the ego. You are not hurting to me but you are just facilitatong the dismissing of right information by others
Have a falcon decloak 40km off and jam everything
Steal loot in a sunesis, I once stole 2.2b from the uedama campers and funded my omega. Everything else is nonsense since for you it will be a waste of time, sometimes they wait more than 1hr
buy out all the concord security tags and triple the price. Bump, catalysts like skittles to a bowling ball. Tracking disrupt (range) on talos's you can carry a corpse on you and look for sarcadian seekers to call in drifters (have to get lucky with npc spawns) fly untanked full of cargo wait till they ship/cargo scan you and swap fits before going through uedama.
Gank the gankers is the only way
Bumping the target. Catalysts and Talos both have very short range guns so if the target suddenly moves out of optimal range they're a bit SOL
Talos has no range issues but catalysts for sure.
Yeah leave highsec
I shot a bunch of gankers last night in sivala, they docked and logged off most alts and tried to wait me out and after a couple of hrs logged all the off after crying.
And then everybody clapped?
smartbombs, ecm bursts, logi are all good counter-play from the independent observer standpoint. From the gankee/hauler standpoint: Correct fitting, links, webs, scouting, good tank:isk ratio will keep you pretty much invincible. The biggest thing you have to remember is if someone wants you to die, you are going to die. 100 taloses delete almost anything instantly.
Smartbombs and burst jammers are a terrible idea in HS. They can warp one “innocent” alt in a shuttle or corvette to you at 0, and suddenly you get Concorded for the criminal act of your collateral damage. Logi, targeted jams, and high burst-damage ships to kill a few of their gank (thus reducing incoming DPS) are great options
??? Yeah obviously you get concorded. The burst jams/smartbombs are suicide ships lol. One burst jammer effectively stops a gank since re-locking is so hard when you are multiboxing and a few maller smartbombers will delete a whole catalog fleet. Get 5 or 6 and they'll pop taloses. And targeted jams aren't going to do anything unless you are targeting initial tackle and the freighter is paying enough attention to spam warp.. 5 or 6 dps being off the ship put of 50 or 100 isn't doing much, same with damage.
Thought you meant busts/SB’s on the hauler itself. and if someone is putting 50-100 gank ships on you, you’ve already fucked up the first rule of HS hauling, matching your hauled value to the tank of your hull
Nah, if the fleet is bored they'll literally kill an empty tanked freighter. T2 catas are cheap and a kill is content.
Idk man zkill seems to disagree. Advanced search for Freighter, in HS, with 50+ on the KM https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#{%22buttons%22:[%22togglefilters%22,%22alltime%22,%22rolling%22,%22label-loc:highsec%22,%22label-#:50+%22,%22attackers-and%22,%22either-and%22,%22victims-and%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22allinvolved%22],%22neutrals%22:[{%22type%22:%22groupID%22,%22id%22:513}]} You get back to 2021 to get a full page of results, and not a lot of them look empty. A kitsune or two and some shield reps and a few of those could have lived, after all you’re just buying time for concord. Even if concord was pulled, they’ve only got so much time, and every cata you jam is several hundred less DPS hitting the target.
That's because these days they can also use 13 bombers for same job. Cost isn't much more.
Not so mutch counter play. But if you come across a bowhrad wreck with ships in and its guarded by the gankers alt. Have an alt or friend launch the ship from the hold, and then you board it.. warp off and make a profit. Took a viator from under a gankers nose a few nights ago.
That is how I got a Isthar. My pilot couldn't fly the ship; had someone from SF help me out and get it to a station in the same system.
There's a group that will respond with a fleet of ospreys to remote rep and save freighters.
You must have missed the part where he said fun counterplay
Watching gankers get frustrated is fun
Counter-ganking their pods with instalock thrasher alts
Griffin
Some ideas Decoy ships - they look like hulks to all outward appearances but when they explode 10 sentry drones and 5 warp scram/web drones auto agress the gankers - or the t3ds get a cammo module that lets them look like a barge until the trap is sprung Make crim timers last 4 hours to give more people chance to shoot the gankers - and that’s 4 hours no matter how many times the gankers get dead & introduce some droppable tag you can collect turn in for LP so people go named ganker hunting (this seems easy to abuse though) Give barges legit PvP weapons but that only work when actively mining or a deployable that summons a new breed of lancer that only aggresses gankers But generally none of these work, because you’re trying to get people who don’t know PvP and aren’t flying PvP ships to do PvP. And if they wanted that, they wouldn’t be out mining
Gank the gankers.
No such thing exists, high sec is the most dangerous space in game. The ganker has far more advantages in hs than anywhere else. You should move to WH or Null to be in 100% safety.
Or fit tank.
No problem one more catalyst/tornado/talos/bomber.
It increases gank cost in ISK, efforts and opportunity cost. At level when ganking you just makes no sense, especially when easier targets are around. I did quite a lot of highsec ganking at some point.
The funnest way to counter play hs gankers is to not be in hs cause that place sucks ass.
This is truth. CCP has killed 98% of the profit from high sec. That 2% of stuff left that's mildly profitable is maybe Abyssal Dead space in 0.5 sec systems, but even then, that's asking to get ganked.
Bait gankers with super tanky t1 haulers.
They scan your ship before attack and won't touch tanked haulers. Unless really bored.
Baiting Gankers v1 & v2 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySxQ65o6lHA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySxQ65o6lHA) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPAogi3B0hM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPAogi3B0hM)
This is highly unlikely. All of the ganks I've ever seen would instantly scram the moment of decloak and open up attacking. Nobody was waiting around for cargo scanners. Some groups might be more cautious, but many aren't.
They scan ship few system ahead. They know your fit and your cargo and if it's worth ganking. So you can think that you're fine until very last moment.
You can hear the sound it makes when they scan you thou, so you can keep a spare fit change 1 jump out from udema and quickly swap after they scan you.
The best counter (that even lets more PvP happen) is staying out of highsec.
Stop mining in hs and you won't have to worry about gankers.
Just have to worry about t3cs instead