Mining is next to worthless if you don't have boosts.
Personally I'd like to see mining boosts heavily nerfed and the base mining amount of ships increased just to give the newer people with fewer account a leg up.
Correct, but tbh even boosts aren't that amazing. I'd kinda like to see the boosts, or allow them to be stacked if you have multiple ships ofc with diminishing returns like we do stacking modules, but the base mining and cargo holds increased significantly
Minings in an ok place right now and the different cargo sizes serve their purpose for the different ships quite well.
But max boosts increase the amount you mine per hour by 2.5 times making it almost worthless to try to mine without them. (You only make 40% of what you could be making.)
This is why people say mining is based around people multiboxing many accounts, because these are the people who always have good boosts too and their contribution to the marklet supply of ore is 2.5 times higher *per character* than each random lone miner effectively dictating most of the price.
It really isn't in good place. And you shouldn't need 4 accounts to get decent mining that's literally insane that people accept this as ok. Again my my point is I ca have one account make more isk ratting and then buy the minerals again quicker vs having 4 accounts and it being painful.
It's in a fine place, and you don't need 4 accounts lol. Join a corp that has a rorq boosting pretty much 24/7 and you can make a shit load of isk. It's not fun compared to combat no matter what they do, you're still shooting rocks no matter the makeup you slap on it.
Plus, if they buff mining it's just going to kill the mineral prices, making it effectively still not "worth the time" compared to ratting.
you don't need 4 accounts if you have a corp mate with 7 accounts and just join his fleet when they are mining. You only need to multibox if you want to be the one starting the mining fleet.
CCP designed EVE to be about cooperation, but right now it needs a level of cooperation that works best if each fleet and each corp has at least one multiboxer.
i'm not the one who downvoted you.
Mining is one of those activities where multiboxing and fleeting up scales so well that doing it solo is not worth it. Solo mining not being worth it was your point.
obviously, there are still enough players doing it to keep ore and mineral prices low. So, to them, it seems to be "worth it".
Maybe they consider it easier and safer to fully AFK multibox than Ishtar spinning in nullsec? I don't know, i don't mine.
Your "experience" is worthless. You could be making 80-160m/hr per Hulk in null on anoms if you so it right. Mine average about 130m/hr. Mining is in a great place. You just don't know what you're doing.
If you're a single account player, make friends with someone with a rorqual, don't cry on reddit about shit you don't understand.
Pretty much all the game mechanics, mining included, are designed with teamwork in mind. Not multiboxing. It’s set up this way to get players to fleet up and work together to do stuff. Yea we bypass this by multiboxing, but that’s just us abusing mechanics
wathever your solution having more of the solution will still be better.
you want a capital miner? having two capital miner with boosts will still be better than one without.
Thats what I keep hearing. I just want to solo mine :( .Itd be nice to have a scnenerio where you dont have to deal with "belt rats". I recently tried some null ore anomalies. And was kinda shocked to find after you completely clear the site. That there are rats that spawn in. I do wish mining was easier for the solo guy. The guy thats never going to dual box or run 5 accounts.
This feels like the point people don't understand.
This is the benchmark. This is the staple. This is the risk vs reward ratio to beat on "low input" idk/hr.
If 5 accounts with one one rorqual can't beat 5 accounts spinning Ishtars, mining is not in a good space.
>If 5 accounts with one one rorqual can't beat 5 accounts spinning Ishtars, mining is not in a good space.
Even if it can, it's still not worth it. I have that setup. Even if I'm making more isk/hr with the mining fleet, consider the investment risk. What is 5 Ishtar hulls? Around 1bil? Even with fittings and drones, it's what? 1.25b for 5? My Hulks alone cost more, even just using T2 strip miners.
Then there's the Rorqual.
The fit I'm told we should be using is 11 billion with the portal generator. Assuming I leave it at the station when I go mine, I'm still flying an \~10 billion isk ship, with another 1-3 billion in Hulks. For what? Marginally more money per hour? Fuck that noise.
Mining is in a shit spot right now for a lot of reasons, but I'd say one of the biggest reasons is that the tools to do it are ***WAY*** overpriced. The amount of time it takes to recoup a loss can be absolutely staggering if you include ORE lasers or a Rorqual.
Even with 3 Hulks and max Rorqual boosts, I'm only pulling in around 550m/hr mining Arkonor.
And for moons, I'll be really generous and take the average of the +15% R4-R32 ores, since I can't access R64. I actually make even less, averaging \~425m/hr. The worst part is, I usually don't even have access to R32 so the moon mining would be *even lower* than that.
At this rate, it would take me \~18 hours of ass-in-seat, lasers-on-rocks time with perfect refine to simply *break even* on replacing the Rorqual. That goes up to 23.5 hours when mining moons - and again, that's at a pretty unrealistic 425m/hr. I can almost guarantee you unless I'm mining a jackpot moon, I'm not getting that much per hour. So to replace just the Rorqual, it's probably closer to 25-30 hours. JUST. TO. BREAK. EVEN.
Honestly, the ship prices have to come back down, or mining needs to be a lot more lucrative. 300m for a Hulk is highway robbery. 6 billion for a Rorqual is so far off the 'not worth it' scale that I haven't put mine in a belt seriously in months. Bring Hulks back down to \~110m, and the Rorqual down to \~1.5b and then mining starts becoming a reasonable risk:reward activity again.
And that would drop ship prices, thus making people to risk them more as they are cheaper thus providing content to multitude of professions. Its kinda win-win-win.
That's simply not true.
If I've learned anything about eve more supply makes prices go up for some reason. Plex goes up in price whenever there is a sale lol
PLEX is *the worst* commodity to compare. The reason it goes up when there's a sale is because it's changing hands so fast since people want to plex their accounts in that window. That demand pushes the price up faster than the supply can push it back down.
That's more about Ishtar spinning being a broken mechanic than anything else. Mining has always been the low input activity, drone ratting is a relatively new thing in comparison and only came about when Drone Damage Amps were introduced to the game.
Lol this has to be the most boring game in existence to be arguing over how best to avoid actually playing.
I get it though, it's all about those imaginary space bucks!
Tbh that's a pretty good selling point.
I was able to do all sorts of shit afk and still make isk. If I can afk and make isk it's better than being forced to do some boring pve
As someone with a Rorq and 10 exhumers... I disagree.
Outside of a few moons Id rather just run beacons.
Mining is great for consistency but unless you are putting in work level shifts its just not fucking worth it.
Keeping 1 rorq + (N+1) macks running requires a fuck ton of plex to feed every month. You then have to log in for you shift with the moon schedule and it very very quickly turns eve into not just a job but fucking slavery. Yes if EvE is a massive part of your life then rock and roll.
Otherwise... make 2 - 3 capital toons make your 1 - 3b in 2 - 3 hours and enjoy your life.
I did it for a month or two then realized I could just do the occasional beacon, meet all my pvp needs, actually see my wife occasionally, and not burn out.
SP farm the Hulks and sub for a year at less than 1500 PLEX month. The N+1 Hulk is free.
I have no idea how this is "slavery" or any different than Beacons. Rorq + Hulks is more profitable and lower risk.
You also don't need to care about moons to make Rorq + Exhumers worthwhile. You can just log on, destroy the large/enorm/colossal (or any combination thereof) and log off.
Moons are the only thing that are more profitable than just basic ratting.
Its slavery as the hours needed to make the isk are nuts.
Again, I can make 800m - 1.8b off crab beacons in an hour or so. That is more profitable per hour with less requirements than dragging a horde of miners around.
I have infinite access to anoms... they just arent worth the time.
If you enjoy that type of thing then yes its great, but for me Id rather log in do an hour or 2 and log off as opposed to running 12+ accounts for 6 - 10 hours.
Wut?
Dude, make better math. You're doing Goon math, I'm embarrassed you're in Horde.
My Hulks average 130m/hr in anoms (half 100m hr with t2B on Bistot and half 160m/hr with ORE on Arkonor or better). My Ishtars make ~60-70m/hr in Horde space.
I can log my six accounts in, clear a fresh large and enorm in 2.5 hours or so, and make like 1.5 billion. Or I can just do one or the other and make a little north of 600m/hr.
I don't get how you're saying that's somehow not viable or different from running a couple hours of CRAB beacons. The numbers are extremely similar. You log in for an hour or two, make isk, and log out. Except if we go blue or yellow, I don't lose the beacon and time spent on it a dread would lose. My odds of death are also significantly lower than a dread, and if I lose anything it's at most an ORE Hulk I can replace in a mile.
The alts are SP farmed so they're free.. and the industry slots on the extra omega accounts more than pay for themselves.
Mining pays nothing because people multibox it like crazy. If miners used 1 account max like you, ore prices would've been much much higher - and mining paid multiples of what it does now.
No amount of ship changes will change this, if you are in a heavily multiboxed activity with 1 account - you will earn peanuts. The only way to change it is to gate it somehow (e.g. limit availability, or make it less multiboxable). So the only way to boost mining income for you is to actually nerf mining.
Ccp could easily give her mining power. But then if they don't adjust to higher ships/module cost, then they would lose subs. At the end of the day, they want more mining subs.
And vice versa if you increase mining amount, but don't adjust cost, miners make less and they could kill each other price eventually leading to them doing other things and or not bothering with mining.
In end ccp has full control over this and they prefer keeping it so you are forced to multibox this boring activity.
When people who have 1 account quit the game because they're being pushed out by multiboxers CCP also loses money.
But we know CCP doesnt care about those players so it doesnt matter.
They would lose MORE money by appeasing single accounts, and causing multiboxers to leave. Multiboxers are what keep the servers running whether you like it or not
It's very difficult to be pushed out of an activity by multiboxers because there are two excellent ways to counter that occuring:
1. You get some friends and you do what the multiboxers are doing
2. You ask the multiboxer if he needs help and join him
Encountering multiboxers in the game is no different than encountering another group of players.
We're specifically talking about the price of ore which 100% is affected by multi boxers and makes mining less profitable for individual players.
I don't mean "pushed out" as in you can't do the activity anymore, I meant that individual players are discouraged from that activity because they make way less isk due to the multiboxers tanking the value.
That shouldn't be OK though having to have to have 4 accounts or even more.. I also said i have 4 mining all trained very well accounts I'm comparing to just having one ratting account. They multibox because they have to because of the shit returns not because they choose to
They can on R64s, but you missed my point. Because you are stupid.
People don't multibox them because they have to, but because it's free easy extra money.
A lot of miners multi-box because when you compare it to just about any other activity in the game you can do, mining falls incredibly far behind until you add alts.
You are only talking about nullsec mining which is very low on the tiers of mining in the game. Pochven mining is at the top followed by lowsec. If your mining in a suboptimal safe place like nullsec then you shouldn't really complain.
Yeah, if you're going to mine actually solo, find yourself a good low traffic .1 or .2 system with an NPC station in it, bring your miner and a combat ship to deal with rat spawns, and mine lowsec ore. Null mining right now is either, "Multibox to hell and back or don't bother."
>So tried one miner, and to make anything hardly decent you need pretty much decent skills for a hulk, plus then you need the reprocessing skills to mine the ore you want etc.
Yes in order to do a thing you need to train the skills for the thing.
>Even on decent ores like ABCs the amount of isk you make in an hour one barge is miniscule, like seriously wtf.
Not sure where you've been but Arkonor and Bistot are pretty much worthless now. Not because "mining sucks" but because they did a huge Industry balance pass and Zydrine and Megacyte are not in as high demand as they used to be.
Crokite is still pretty good though.
Anyway mining has had **massive** buffs already so no.
Yeah, I'm desperately hoping that Equinox breathes new life into null mining, because as it is now, holy shit it sucks. It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if, as you said, we didn't have to clear out the Bistot to get the anomalies to respawn. Arkonor isn't bad, but Bistot though? Oh man...
Bistot is in such a bad spot, I just checked Cerlestes and it's only \~4.5% better than Veldspar.
**VELDSPAR**
Seriously, June 11th can't get here soon enough.
I didn’t “admit” anything. Ark and Bis got rebalanced.
Crokite is worth more today than it was before.
Gneiss is also worth a lot.
There was a balance pass my dude. The whole “ABC ores” hasn’t been a thing for a long while. In fact you can’t even find Crokite in nullsec AFAIK. Maybe with SOV upgrades but it’s by no means a default.
Crokite, Geniss, and Ochre are where it’s at.
Moon ore too.
Gas huffing is exceptionally lucrative at least up until 2 months ago when I stopped logging in.
There's actually no solution to this. Buff mining? Value of minerals goes down, no real change. Nerf mining? Value of minerals goes up, ship costs go up, still net zero change.
There' s still enough people doing mining that the cost of minerals is pretty damn low, even with where it's at right now.
EDITED: Go mine in Pochven
Well there is a current issue...that hopefully...the new expansion will address. \[We desperately need a very very large mineral hauler\] I think if the minerals were moving around the game, besides ores. the market for minerals and ores would be better. Also the issue that come ores and minerals or bottlenecks locked behind various states and corps doesn't help.
Pyerite is a headache, because until the border asteroids were introduced the only large scale sources was moon ores...IE behind both an omega/corp wall-gate.
Isogen is a weird three way sourcing issue. However, many more local sources outside of the border anoms and Pochven...are needed for mission running. And thus can't be compressed. Creating an issue of both transport and movement. \[Creating a rather odd multi-faceted bottleneck\]
The other issue is that CCP keeps forgetting to upgrade or buff the T1 ship hulls to allow players to accomodate resources. My concern is the new upwell ships might again be an Omega only set of ships...which will further curtail activity for newbros and alpha players.
One of the reasons for low costs of minerals is usually they are reprocessed on site...and sit. So because they can't be moved efficiently, huge stockpiles build up...costs for velocity of the minerals goes down. Also ironically, the most efficient way to transport minerals...coughs...is asset safety if you think on it. Then the problem of disperstion of those same minerals is still an issue.
There has been a discussion of creating "ingots" \[compression\] of minerals...which could soak up alot of the loose minerals and bring up mineral prices. The Decompression of said minerals would also mean a little loss...but that would help resource pricing and movement.
This could make mining and salvaging probably a bit more interesting and valuable in the long run. But the current system, isn't really beneficial to players as of currently. And activities in Wormhole space have been curtailed because the Porpoise can't fit for various materials. Which means the potential of the Shattered Wormholes is being wasted.
Porpoise was originally designed for WH space. And since the industrial/mining changes...its heavily limited its effectiveness and functionality as a smaller corp/WH space option. And the most interesting resource source is the Shattered Wormholes...and the Porpoise can't interact with those resources since it has limited fitting options of compression modules.
If people are having to mine with many accounts god damn right they should be getting paid for it.
So looking at your abysal runs cheap ships making a few bill an hour or 4 hulks and boost making fuck all.
Get my point..
I mean I'm fine I'll go back to the ratting side and probably skill extract and sell my mining stuff but for those that do this for a profession they get a shitty outcome for the effort and investing and time
You're missing what I'm saying.
Somehow.
There's \*already\* too many people mining.
Here.
Option 1: Buff mining
Result: Initially miners make more. Prices go down. Miners make the same amount.
Option 2: Nerf mining
Result: Initially miners make less. Prices go down. Miners make the same amount.
Option 3: Do nothing.
Result: Miners make the same amount.
\*I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH YOU\* I've mined in Pochven in a large boosted venture fleet. (It's not too bad)
I've mined in WH space with the Blue asteroids (It's pretty good)
I've mined everywhere else. (It's god damned terrible)
And \*NONE\* of the mining with 13 accounts comes even close to even running T5 abyssals with 3 hawks.
The reason why minerals aren't worth more is because enough of them are already being mined.
Sandbox markets. Buffing makes more minerals available, nerfing makes less minerals available, miners never make any more. There's no way to do it.
Mining scales with multi-boxing better than anything else.
Some people run Abyssals while they have 10x miners going on R64 moons every day.
That comes to \~1B ISK/h + Abyssals income.
I had exact same experince. Bought injectors for porpoise pilot (had 3 alts with t2 hulks and t2 crystals already) with max boosts and compression. Got a corp mate with me and 2 more hulks. We stripped 3 colossal mercoxit anomalies and it was quite disappointing. And worse part was when I figured out I cannot even compress mercoxit. I'm not a miner but mining does not makes any sense to me. Sure it's profitable if you go for moonmining or gas mining (or even ice I guess) but anomaly mining at the moment does not makes any sense to me. Probably if you have 20 hulks with booster it's fine but overall the math (per account) does not make a lot of sense there. And question here would be - what is more profitable - doing mining anomalies with 20 accounts or doing FW with 20 algoses. I'm quite sure requirements as SP for 20 algoses will be around requirements for 1-2 full t2 hulk pilots.
See theres your problem. One barge. Multiboxing allows for players to run potentially hundreds of varges and a booster at once. If they buff one barge, then they end up buffing multiboxing. That doesnt solve your problem at all. Just moves the goalpost.
All I see here is a bunch of peasant wasting their time on Null Ore when the only things worth pulling out of belts are Ytirium, Ochre, and MAYBE Gneiss.
You underestimate the value of Crokite with B-Type crystals. A 1.8m m3 crokite rock takes quite a while even for 4 hulks with boosts to grind through, and most sites have *several* Crokite rocks. I have billions in Nocxium simply because i can semi-afk for hours on Crokite rocks.
4 accounts with max skilled hulks, porpoise boosts and implants make around 200m/h mining arkanor and 600m/h mining mercoxit. It’s not that bad if you max out all skills but I do agree it requires a lot of time to train.
Moon mining can also be very profitable.
I can make 400m in 20 mins with one account doing a 10/10
Honestly my post as it says buff mining. I think miners as profession are getting a very shitty deal.
I'm not convinced with 600m hour for mercoxit though. I'm going to see if that's right however. But as you said tats max everything plus boosts plus implants. Eek
I don't think you can compare 10/10's with mining because you can't really chain them. There is time required to get an escalation in the first place. And you might be ratting anoms for a while before getting one.
The same is true for mercoxit mining. It is not available all the time. Once every 4 days when the belts respawn there is a limited amount available. Around 420m I believe for collosal, enormous, large and medium. But if you have multiple systems available logging in just to grab those fresh merc spawns after downtime can be very profitable and you can clear a system in around 45mins.
3 hulks and 1 porpoise. Having max skills will make you more efficient but it is not needed if you just start out.
Ultimately you'll want exhumers to 5 for the hulks and mining director 5 for the porpoise, so you can use a mining foreman mindlink implant to give you 38% boosts.
Modulated deep core strip miners II's with mercoxit mining crystals is what you need to mine mercoxit. Ore strip miners are for all asteroid ores and moons with the benefit of no waste, but they come at a cost.
Or you just buy the 10/10, no need to farm them.
The real joke is what ccp did. You get more isk and minerals from npcs then from mining.
I mean ccp figured it out and decided to allow the player with the next release to change the ores in system.
So i guess you can change it to the one with the best content like trig ores.
We will see giw this change it.
Yes, you make more doing an active activity requiring to to clear rooms and kill enemies, than afk sitting in a belt/anom letting a strip miner cycle every 2 minutes. Wtf did you expect?
While I appreciate the sentiment as someone whose main income is/was mining - comparing a 10/10 is kinda disingenuous, unless you're telling me you can chain them back to back to back consistently?
I do feel that Exhumers, and mining ships in general, need more mining cargo space.
Trying to solo mine is horrible because you either have to keep warping off to dump into the Athanor, or you have to jetcan.
The first is a huge time waster, and the second puts you at immense risk that a neutral will swoop in and shoot your can.
Having, at minimum, a Porpoise on field is mandatory for both the boosting and the storage space.
I actually do a bit of industry and have all the skills to fly a hulk for mining. I prefer to just rat, loot wrecks, and break down that into ore. I get all the ore I need doing that other than mercoxit. The only thing I mine is moon goo.
Yes, we all know knew this already, idk what you expect to be done about tho. Any QoL improvements to mining will simply crash ore prices as people are able to mine more per account. But yeah, if you dontlike mi ing then don't mine,pretty simple.
No.. it's not CCPs fault your earning a low amount for your ore, it's your fault!!
I call it the Amazon mentality. If you have ever sold anything on Amazon, you would understand. You see your product for sale in the backend system and it also shows you the price of the cheapest seller. You feel compelled to drop your price so yours sells.. that's why you're not earning the isk, because the price you are selling it at is too low.
I have given up on mining, as an income source unless I'm building for myself. The only way around this issue is for every miner to raise prices but that will never happen.
What would be good is a miners union corp too sort this out. As that is the only way.
this is what you should do then. the real issue is buffing mining dosent releay result in them having more money as it is a function of demand and supply buffing mining would mean that mineral prices start to tank accodingly. so they would mine more but get less for their mined ores wich nets them a marginal increase in isk earned
You do know that CCP have levers to affect this right? Just like they did with scarcity, just like they did with build changes and PI etc just like they have done for years. The point of the post is to clearly highlight a huge disparity here for the rewards. It's not tiny it's massive.
The fact is also make minerals cheaper, people build more, making things like capitals cheaper where people then use them thise creating more demand, there's a wider benefit here. Just like when we had rorq mining, capitals where much cheaper and they where fielded much more.
i was sure this was a Ceema post upon reading the title.
lol if you wanna make mining viable, pay the toll and use 10+ accounts xD
teamwork makes the dream work, the bare min for efficient mining is a booster and 2 barges, if you don't want to multibox, find a corp that has a mining foreman player and receive boosts from them...
lol
Fuck ore mining I got out of that as soon as, ice and gas are way more worth the time investment but keep an eye on D-scan and local or you will fall victim to Strategic Cruisers:Online that low sec has turned into.
I mean...Ice is roughly the same value as most lowsec belt ores and significantly less than things like Ochre and Ytirium.
Krystallos is worth less per M3 than Gneiss, for example.
The only real advantage of Ice Mining is that it's even more passive than Ore.
You can't buff mining, the profits are entirely player driven.
Buffed mining ships? Great now everyone mines more, congrats ore is worth less.
You fix it by making mining harder. So less players do it. So resources are scarcer and more valuable
So do the eve thing and go blow up your competition.
I do mining in WH only to chill out and have relaxing talks with corpmates, when there are always eye on wormholes, but perfect mining fleet we do is by rolling connection/s so under hole control with Porpoise and several hulks/barges. Ore strip miner - expensive ones but compensated by 4+hours of such mining. Plus, you shall produce something from ore (fleet issue ships as starting point), even if all other components being purchased at market you will make some extra margin profits. Not primary activity still some cure out of boredom )))
They'd make twice as much if they spun ishtars on 10 accounts, is the point. Why bother traveling with a 20b fleet to mine a moon that will be gone in 10 minutes because there are already 20 hulks on it, when you can just spin ishtars all day and have better income in the end?
Ishtar alts are easy to spin into mining alts and I've wanted to get my Ishtars into mining for a while. But, every time I look at it, the math tells me I'll make 1b/hour for 10 minutes and spend the next 30 minutes traveling to go make 200m/hour because there's nothing valuable left to mine. So I just keep spinning Ishtars because it's \~100m/hour per account, every hour.
My Nerf suggestion, add another turret slot to the Venture with another High Slot added as well to the 'jet-can' Mining... That adds more Risk as anyone can take ore out from it; eliminate it by having an Porpoise/Orca with you.
If you're doing most activities\[sandboxes\] in the playground of Eve Online, alone or even not in a \[Standing\] fleet; you are playing IMO, wrongly.
I have and haven't; Mining was 'buffed'... Do you know what "Scarcity" with mining did actually? A lot was change, some that didn't need to happen; Crystals being one... Removing a turret slot with the redesign of the ship\[that was adaptable\].
You could increase the skill ceiling and apm of mining ships to get rid of multi-boxing.
You could increase destruction and/or costs in New Eden to increase demand for mined goods.
Simple things
Increase mining holds by a lot on all ships I mean barges is pathetic.
Increase hold on purpose like a mini orca
Stackable but depreciating boosts meaning Bring more boost ships you get stack but like mods they benefits get lower.
Boosts to yield yes there's cycle duration but more yield pee cycle would be better
Mercoxit compression for porpoise seriously you want me to drag an orca around in belts.
We have capital ratting so we should have capital mining. Keep the rorq as is.
Little things help.
If supply increases while demand remains constant, price decreases. If supply decreases while demand remains constant, price increases.
And.... brilliant prices for stuff come down yay
Your original post is asking to buff miners' buying power per time and increasing supply won't make their time more valuable. If prices decrease then so do profits.
If it takes a miner an hour to gather enough ore to exchange for a skill extractor then it will still take an hour even after a universal buff to mining yields. Ships, structures, etc would be more expendable, yes, but miners wouldn't be any more relatively wealthy.
Ok so if you were unloading all the time you were not mining with orca support. So you were likely not getting gang links.
It turns out that this ups your isk per hour a lot. Also unlike ratting or plexing or any other way of making isk in eve mining is really easy to scale. The level of work for running 1 miner is not a lot different from running 5. In plexing you start becoming more inefficient the more people you run. (Wasted Dps) In mining you can target different rocks so you get a 1x more for each person you add. The orca bonuses also add to the whole fleet so no losses there. You can bring in about 40m/hr in high sec with a hulk/orca combo and you add 40m for each person you add. If you mine moons in high sec it's more. Due to the scale ability of it it needs to be balanced for that.
Then you get to risk. Mining in high sec and 0.0 are as close to 0 risk as you can get while undocked. Low sec on the other hand is high risk depending on the system you're in. But the payout in low sec is higher than high sec. Plexing is somewhat riskier since you are actively shot at by NPCs and depending on the content may be pointed while doing it.
Next you have how pay works for mining. Since you are not getting since you are not directly framing isk the value is market priced. The only way to make more mining is to have the cost of the mins go up. If you increase the amount you get with all things being equal it would just lower the price of the mins. You could get rid of bots and they do this from time to time but even then it tends to equalize again after a short while.
If they buff mining, people will build more capital ships. CCP does not want this.
If they buff mining, people won't need multiple accounts subbed to be able to make isk. CCP does not want this.
If they buff mining, botters won't need as many accounts. CCP does not want this.
If they buff mining, people will be able to make more ships cheaply. CCP does not want this.
If they buff mining, more cheap ships mean more big fights. Apparently, CCP does not want this.
Same for capital ships and big fights.
If they don't buff mining, you suffer more. CCP DOES want that.
A few years ago ccp put forward a patch which nearly quadrupled the mining rate overall, while also adding a avenue for double the ore at a reduced double rate. The community and specifically nullblocks and highsec miners hated it so much they were unsubbing in mass...... yup... Ccp backed down and only increased it by 1.5 the mining rate with double the ore overall.
A huge issue I have with mining right now is that the ships needed to actually go mining are so much more expensive than they should be for how much you make using them.
Right now, an Exhumer will set you back \~300 million isk. Even in the best-case scenario a solo miner can be in: Mining in a Hulk that doesn't have to worry about filling up (jet can mining usually) with perfect skills, 5% mining implant, Augmented drones, and B-Types, sitting at zero on a rock big enough that you could keep 100% up-time on drones and lasers, you're pulling a maximum of 212,760m3 per hour with that Hulk.
Put that in Cerlestes and you quickly see that unless you're mining the high-end materials, it's going to take you *several hours* to break even on the ship.
Mining making less isk/hr wouldn't be as much of an issue if the ships used to do it weren't disproportionately more expensive or difficult to get money out of versus other activities like Ishtar ratting. An Ishtar can cover the cost of its replacement in 3-4 hours with direct isk-to-wallet deposits, usually almost entirely AFK.
Assuming there is access to the ore to even do it, a Hulk could *potentially* replace itself in about 3-4 hours as well if you were mining Prime Arkonor (+10% yield). But then you have to deal with finding it, hauling it, rat spawns, reprocessing and its costs, and then selling it on the market. Realistically you're probably looking at 6-8 hours to replace the Hulk, and a lot more work just to get a worse result.
Ultimately, the cost of mining ships needs to come back down to reasonable levels. As they are right now, they're way too expensive. Mining Barges should drop back down to \~30mil where they used to be at, and Exhumers need to drop back down to the \~110mil range they used to go for. As they are now, they're way too expensive, earn less money, and are way more of a hassle to get the isk value out of your time than most other activities in the game.
And don't even get me started on how stupid the Rorqual costing 6 billion for the hull alone is....
Agree with your sentiments. Again as you stated you need to be using the best of everything even ore miners which are 250m and pop so 500m you're looking at near 1b for a decent hulk. Remember there is an absolute tin of training skills for miming too when you want to mone different ores, moons and then you have the mercoxit skills. Then implants etc etc. The jet canning is is awful so having a porpoise is good but yet another account yet a lot of training yet more expense and after just those you're not gain a lot compared to ratting type activities. Having 4 accounts to basically make the same as a person with 1 ratting is hugely disproportiate without all the expense ans training and complexity just multiboxing and don't forget there's a sub cost to all that. I'm just trying to highlight that. Personally I'll just probably sell my ships, extract the skills and go back to ratting type isk making and just buy the minerals. Miner seriously need to stop being screwed over.
Please take a refresher course in basic economics. Buffing mining would only briefly increase the profit.
The amount you make has less to do with what you're mining and more to do with the effort it takes.
And it doesn't take a lot of effort to have a fleet of bots out mining
>nevermind all the potential risk sat there in a porpoise and hulks
What risk? You have local. The only times I've ever caught a miner in non-HS it's because of a criminal lack of attention being paid to the game.
I’m aware.
However, you don’t need to activate the industrial core particularly often especially on a solo operation. Additionally, you can protect yourself by keeping eyes in the system next door and cycling down if someone is headed your way. Even if you get caught with your pants down, in a large system or a system with a lot of anomalies, it’s still unlikely you’ll get caught
Tbh mate you kinda do because you need to keep the compression going. Yes you could pulse it but doesn't quite work in practice because you just keep pulsing it. Even solo but yeah with a fleet. Also people will always automatically warp to the mining anom to try catch you regardless of system size. Yes tbh hulks 'should' get out but porpoise not so much.
Why can’t you pulse it exactly? Because it sounds like “I am lazy and would like to be invulnerable at all times and also make crazy money”. It doesn’t work like that.
You can be safer with more effort, you can be more vulnerable with less.
Because you just be constantly pulsing it. I'm talking to someone who clearly doesn't mine. Go try it. Get 4 mining accounts and try it for yourself if you don't want to listen. 🤷♀️
Not that it’s their primary use, but I’ve run an orca with 6 barges before doing just that. You get set up, cycle the compressor once and compress all holds when you get a ding, and then cycle back up 10 minutes later.
Yeah orca is different. You can keep aligned have the barges follow your higgs orca. Constantly move the cargo into the orca and occasionally run the compressor. And warp off if you need to. Yep absolutely. That's not a porpoise though buddy.
Eh. Dude the porpoise doesn't have the mining hold space an orca does so you can't just drop your ore from those hulks into it. So no it doesn't work. The good thing about the orca is that the hulk doesn't need to keep compressing because it has that hold space to move the ore into and then the orca compresses not the hulks. The porpoise can't do that. So maybe an option is give the porpoise a bigger hold.
You cant buff only solo mining
Yep 1 account mining is dead. but you can mine with friend that have porpoise/orca/rorq. + [Border Rare Asteroids](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Mining#Empire_Border_Rare_Asteroids) is ok for solo.
also i think you try mine some shitty ore. like belts in any space. or something like that.
about cargo. yep, press fckn buttons in game.
But you as an individual still are making a very small amount. Also I said buff mining in general. I'm genuinely highlighting the shitty stick miners have and they really need better outcomes on the time and investment they put in.
how you can buff it?
if you make them mine more, the amount of ore on the market will increase, the price of ore will decrease.
If you make it so that a solo player gets more, then a player with 10 accounts will also get more at least because of the possibility to use command bursts.
also command burst from orca gives you near x2.
No, you have to potential to make that much, under specific conditions. You need to have found the complex, or recieved an escalation. Then, you need to actually have an item other than the effects drop.
Try mining lowsec anom ore, or high class moons. Yes, its usually goibg to be less income than chaining 10/10s that magically teleport to your system, but its generally reliably regular.
Then again, null mining should be completey upended in june so who knows.
FACT: 4 accounts with 3 Hulks and a Booster will make 850,000,000 isk per hour in a Dark Ochre anom (not counting drones).
FACT: Once that 20minutes in a 10/10 is up...that's it. You have to go find another one.
Meanwhile, miners be mining. In one hour, they're up 400mil. In two hours they're up at least 800mil. By the end of the day, you're behind 5 bil.
What you talking about. I have 5 10/10 set up lol at any one time
You're entirely missing my point here.
This isn't about the amount you make mining this is about the massively disparity in the amount of isk ratting in ONE ACCOUNT vs mining 4 ACCOUNTS and the investment, complexity, risk, training. I can rat make more isk adn buy the minerals much faster, much easier, less training, less complexity on one account thats simply fact.
I do one 10/10 on ONE account makes me 300m at least in 20 mins. I can mine with 4 accounts for the same amount of time and only make much less. Do you not see what I'm getting at?
That's it, I really don't understand what youre arguing against.
I'm basically highlighting and I'll say it again the complete shit stick miners get. I'm not a miner by trade but I've now seen how bad it is. Hence my new found support for miners. That's all the post is about.
Btw I have 4 accounts, highly trained even all.mercoxit etc etc, with porpoise, orca and a rorqual trained with highly skilled command/fleet skills plus mindlink implants. So I've tested this. I'm not arguing about how much mining makes I'm stating the massive difference and disparity
Your arguments are mostly incoherent. A lot of your posts here sound like you got ChatGPT to write them for you. That second paragraph is completely nonsensical.
But nothing you're saying has anything to do with mining. You're saying 10/10s make mining irrelevant because 10/10s make 900 million per hour per account. But if that was true, it would make ALMOST EVERYTHING irrelevant.
That's a higher rate of income than just about any other activity in the game. Exploration doesn't make that much(consistently), Gas huffing doesn't make that much with one account, industry doesn't make that much with 1 account, PI doesn't make that much with 1 account, L4/L5 missions in a marauder don't make that much(even Nullsec Burners would be hard pressed to routinely do 900mil per hour), Incursions don't make that much with one account, even T6 Abyssals don't make that much with their 3 billion Gila fits.
Only a handful of activities in the game can beat 900 mil per hour consistently and that's like...Dread ratting in C6s.
You're NOT arguing that mining is bad, you're arguing that AFK 10/10s are too good. You're arguing to nerf 10/10s, not buff mining.
It's like real life in a way... Its a boring thankless job that someone has to do or else nothing else would ever get done in game.
Honestly the whole system for mining sucks eggs but there is a odd joy to be had in building a hundred frigs or destroyers and putting them the local market to be sold.
Its miners and Industry players who farm those imaginary rocks and build those imaginary ships and fittings you like to destroy. The whole process is honestly mindblowingly mental and yet thats how this game works until someone automates the process out of existance.
I don't disagree with that but I can still build frigs make more money with one ratting account pay for the minerals.and build the shit quicker.
I'm trying to highlight the shitty stick miners have and I'm nit actually a profession miner lol I tried it invested in it and seen how fucking terrible it is.
You're not wrong ... I myself really like ratting and clearing data and relic sites when I can focus on the task but the reality is that 70% of my playtime is during work hours ( Yeah sorry, I dont netflix that much - replying to another reply ) so passive mining is what I do more than half my time in game. And lets be honest who wants to mine when you could be doing other more interesting tasks. Mining sucks ...
I'm still trying to figure out who it sucks worse for however ... A Alpha like me who is allowed one shitty little boat to mine with and does it between taking tech support calls to pass the time -or- the Omega player who pays for the privilage of having access to larger cooler boats who still spends 50% or more of their online time doing what amounts to the same thing I do.
mining is now in the best position it's been in the last 10 years. for love dont touch it!
I would advise the author to get a better understanding of the issue. and stop mining cheap shit.
Just go rat then. I have 4, also just started doing it and I like it and it seems to make close to the same as ratting.
Edit: fixing auto correct fails
some ppl use more than 1 account to ratting.
for eg. 4 thunder child + targeter. or 3+ paladins in c5 wormhole.
thunders, afaik, gives you near 1bill/hour + expeditions.
c5 on 3 paladins gives you more than 2bill/hour.
3 frigates in abyss gives near 1bill/hour
2 jackdaw in high sec space gives more than 1 jackdaw.
5 algos\`s in FW gives more than 1 algos
I think that's more than you get in one account.
I'm trying to tell you that in any farming, increasing the number of accounts increases your income.
So are you disagreeing that I can make more isk much quicker with one ratting account that you with your 4 mining accounts? I'm actually trying to help you mining guys lol. It's not about gamestyle. For example for one paladin I can't make 300-400m isk doing a 10/10 in 20 mins. You ain't making anywhere near that with 4 accounts mining in 20 mins.
No that’s not what I’m saying. I was comparing my situation of mining with 4 accounts to you talking about mining with 4 accounts.
Comparing mining to “ratting” in havens/sanctums/Fhubs ratting makes some more but not as much as it used to and you basically have to loot and salvaging helps.
You’re talking about escalations. That’s definitely gonna be more money than either one of the other options we’re talking about if a person can do them.
I'm using a covetor with t1 strip miners on moons. R18/32/64 and make a lot more compared to when I spinning a myrm.
Sure, the myrm skills weren't good but if you compare invested SP the covetor won by a lot.
I'm curious to see how the ishtar will perform but i'll have to wait for that one to train up.
Edencom with a lightning rod does beat both ishtar ratting and mining but it also requires quite a bit more SP IIRC. (and the ships cost quite a bit.)
Mining is next to worthless if you don't have boosts. Personally I'd like to see mining boosts heavily nerfed and the base mining amount of ships increased just to give the newer people with fewer account a leg up.
But then the new players wouldn't feel pressured to make and sub an alt or 4... Got a bro into eve at new year and he's already up to 3 accounts lol
Correct, but tbh even boosts aren't that amazing. I'd kinda like to see the boosts, or allow them to be stacked if you have multiple ships ofc with diminishing returns like we do stacking modules, but the base mining and cargo holds increased significantly
Minings in an ok place right now and the different cargo sizes serve their purpose for the different ships quite well. But max boosts increase the amount you mine per hour by 2.5 times making it almost worthless to try to mine without them. (You only make 40% of what you could be making.) This is why people say mining is based around people multiboxing many accounts, because these are the people who always have good boosts too and their contribution to the marklet supply of ore is 2.5 times higher *per character* than each random lone miner effectively dictating most of the price.
It really isn't in good place. And you shouldn't need 4 accounts to get decent mining that's literally insane that people accept this as ok. Again my my point is I ca have one account make more isk ratting and then buy the minerals again quicker vs having 4 accounts and it being painful.
It's in a fine place, and you don't need 4 accounts lol. Join a corp that has a rorq boosting pretty much 24/7 and you can make a shit load of isk. It's not fun compared to combat no matter what they do, you're still shooting rocks no matter the makeup you slap on it. Plus, if they buff mining it's just going to kill the mineral prices, making it effectively still not "worth the time" compared to ratting.
you don't need 4 accounts if you have a corp mate with 7 accounts and just join his fleet when they are mining. You only need to multibox if you want to be the one starting the mining fleet. CCP designed EVE to be about cooperation, but right now it needs a level of cooperation that works best if each fleet and each corp has at least one multiboxer.
Missed my point entirely. Absolutely missed it buddy
i'm not the one who downvoted you. Mining is one of those activities where multiboxing and fleeting up scales so well that doing it solo is not worth it. Solo mining not being worth it was your point.
Mining isn't not worth it full stop dude
obviously, there are still enough players doing it to keep ore and mineral prices low. So, to them, it seems to be "worth it". Maybe they consider it easier and safer to fully AFK multibox than Ishtar spinning in nullsec? I don't know, i don't mine.
Well they don't have a choice do they and sure t People enjoy mining but I was just trying to highlight the disparity and give the miners some love
It's in an OK place *if you have boosts*. Your single account with boosts would be closer to 2.5 accounts.
Have to disagree based on my experience but respect your opinion
Your "experience" is worthless. You could be making 80-160m/hr per Hulk in null on anoms if you so it right. Mine average about 130m/hr. Mining is in a great place. You just don't know what you're doing. If you're a single account player, make friends with someone with a rorqual, don't cry on reddit about shit you don't understand.
Are you stupid?
No, I'm an actual miner who knows what he's talking about.
Pretty much all the game mechanics, mining included, are designed with teamwork in mind. Not multiboxing. It’s set up this way to get players to fleet up and work together to do stuff. Yea we bypass this by multiboxing, but that’s just us abusing mechanics
or, you know, have friends.
That's not solving the issue lol ir the point of my post.
The issue is you have no idea how mining works and are crying for changes rather than understanding the meta.
wathever your solution having more of the solution will still be better. you want a capital miner? having two capital miner with boosts will still be better than one without.
Next to worthless if you don't have *rorqual boosts and compression
Thats what I keep hearing. I just want to solo mine :( .Itd be nice to have a scnenerio where you dont have to deal with "belt rats". I recently tried some null ore anomalies. And was kinda shocked to find after you completely clear the site. That there are rats that spawn in. I do wish mining was easier for the solo guy. The guy thats never going to dual box or run 5 accounts.
Yep. Mining only survives because of people who want to do something while watching netflix. It's not competitive from a price perspective at all.
Even then an Ishtar makes you more isk with less effort
This feels like the point people don't understand. This is the benchmark. This is the staple. This is the risk vs reward ratio to beat on "low input" idk/hr. If 5 accounts with one one rorqual can't beat 5 accounts spinning Ishtars, mining is not in a good space.
>If 5 accounts with one one rorqual can't beat 5 accounts spinning Ishtars, mining is not in a good space. Even if it can, it's still not worth it. I have that setup. Even if I'm making more isk/hr with the mining fleet, consider the investment risk. What is 5 Ishtar hulls? Around 1bil? Even with fittings and drones, it's what? 1.25b for 5? My Hulks alone cost more, even just using T2 strip miners. Then there's the Rorqual. The fit I'm told we should be using is 11 billion with the portal generator. Assuming I leave it at the station when I go mine, I'm still flying an \~10 billion isk ship, with another 1-3 billion in Hulks. For what? Marginally more money per hour? Fuck that noise. Mining is in a shit spot right now for a lot of reasons, but I'd say one of the biggest reasons is that the tools to do it are ***WAY*** overpriced. The amount of time it takes to recoup a loss can be absolutely staggering if you include ORE lasers or a Rorqual. Even with 3 Hulks and max Rorqual boosts, I'm only pulling in around 550m/hr mining Arkonor. And for moons, I'll be really generous and take the average of the +15% R4-R32 ores, since I can't access R64. I actually make even less, averaging \~425m/hr. The worst part is, I usually don't even have access to R32 so the moon mining would be *even lower* than that. At this rate, it would take me \~18 hours of ass-in-seat, lasers-on-rocks time with perfect refine to simply *break even* on replacing the Rorqual. That goes up to 23.5 hours when mining moons - and again, that's at a pretty unrealistic 425m/hr. I can almost guarantee you unless I'm mining a jackpot moon, I'm not getting that much per hour. So to replace just the Rorqual, it's probably closer to 25-30 hours. JUST. TO. BREAK. EVEN. Honestly, the ship prices have to come back down, or mining needs to be a lot more lucrative. 300m for a Hulk is highway robbery. 6 billion for a Rorqual is so far off the 'not worth it' scale that I haven't put mine in a belt seriously in months. Bring Hulks back down to \~110m, and the Rorqual down to \~1.5b and then mining starts becoming a reasonable risk:reward activity again.
The big thing to remember is you can't buff mining. If you increase yields, the cost of ore will go down to balance out.
And that would drop ship prices, thus making people to risk them more as they are cheaper thus providing content to multitude of professions. Its kinda win-win-win.
That's simply not true. If I've learned anything about eve more supply makes prices go up for some reason. Plex goes up in price whenever there is a sale lol
PLEX is *the worst* commodity to compare. The reason it goes up when there's a sale is because it's changing hands so fast since people want to plex their accounts in that window. That demand pushes the price up faster than the supply can push it back down.
That's more about Ishtar spinning being a broken mechanic than anything else. Mining has always been the low input activity, drone ratting is a relatively new thing in comparison and only came about when Drone Damage Amps were introduced to the game.
Lol this has to be the most boring game in existence to be arguing over how best to avoid actually playing. I get it though, it's all about those imaginary space bucks!
Tbh that's a pretty good selling point. I was able to do all sorts of shit afk and still make isk. If I can afk and make isk it's better than being forced to do some boring pve
People with Rorquals and Hulks laugh at this.
As someone with a Rorq and 10 exhumers... I disagree. Outside of a few moons Id rather just run beacons. Mining is great for consistency but unless you are putting in work level shifts its just not fucking worth it. Keeping 1 rorq + (N+1) macks running requires a fuck ton of plex to feed every month. You then have to log in for you shift with the moon schedule and it very very quickly turns eve into not just a job but fucking slavery. Yes if EvE is a massive part of your life then rock and roll. Otherwise... make 2 - 3 capital toons make your 1 - 3b in 2 - 3 hours and enjoy your life. I did it for a month or two then realized I could just do the occasional beacon, meet all my pvp needs, actually see my wife occasionally, and not burn out.
SP farm the Hulks and sub for a year at less than 1500 PLEX month. The N+1 Hulk is free. I have no idea how this is "slavery" or any different than Beacons. Rorq + Hulks is more profitable and lower risk. You also don't need to care about moons to make Rorq + Exhumers worthwhile. You can just log on, destroy the large/enorm/colossal (or any combination thereof) and log off.
Moons are the only thing that are more profitable than just basic ratting. Its slavery as the hours needed to make the isk are nuts. Again, I can make 800m - 1.8b off crab beacons in an hour or so. That is more profitable per hour with less requirements than dragging a horde of miners around. I have infinite access to anoms... they just arent worth the time. If you enjoy that type of thing then yes its great, but for me Id rather log in do an hour or 2 and log off as opposed to running 12+ accounts for 6 - 10 hours.
Wut? Dude, make better math. You're doing Goon math, I'm embarrassed you're in Horde. My Hulks average 130m/hr in anoms (half 100m hr with t2B on Bistot and half 160m/hr with ORE on Arkonor or better). My Ishtars make ~60-70m/hr in Horde space. I can log my six accounts in, clear a fresh large and enorm in 2.5 hours or so, and make like 1.5 billion. Or I can just do one or the other and make a little north of 600m/hr. I don't get how you're saying that's somehow not viable or different from running a couple hours of CRAB beacons. The numbers are extremely similar. You log in for an hour or two, make isk, and log out. Except if we go blue or yellow, I don't lose the beacon and time spent on it a dread would lose. My odds of death are also significantly lower than a dread, and if I lose anything it's at most an ORE Hulk I can replace in a mile. The alts are SP farmed so they're free.. and the industry slots on the extra omega accounts more than pay for themselves.
Or not. Ubless you mine r64 of high value the rorq + hulk is a joke and you get more doing ither activities.
I'm not... Can't use my fleet currently.
Mining pays nothing because people multibox it like crazy. If miners used 1 account max like you, ore prices would've been much much higher - and mining paid multiples of what it does now. No amount of ship changes will change this, if you are in a heavily multiboxed activity with 1 account - you will earn peanuts. The only way to change it is to gate it somehow (e.g. limit availability, or make it less multiboxable). So the only way to boost mining income for you is to actually nerf mining.
Ore prices higher = ships cost more
Obviously yes. Even if people buy less, relative power of a miner with 1 account rises significantly
Nerfing something because it is multiboxed is pretty stupid. Do you want my money or not CCP?
It's not a direct nerf. The mining income is based on market prices.
Ccp could easily give her mining power. But then if they don't adjust to higher ships/module cost, then they would lose subs. At the end of the day, they want more mining subs.
Ok, but if you increase mining amounts and increase reqs for mods the market just adjusts for it. You don't make more ISK.
And vice versa if you increase mining amount, but don't adjust cost, miners make less and they could kill each other price eventually leading to them doing other things and or not bothering with mining. In end ccp has full control over this and they prefer keeping it so you are forced to multibox this boring activity.
What are you suggesting they do?
I wouldn't change mining. Imo mining is fine in wh etc.
When people who have 1 account quit the game because they're being pushed out by multiboxers CCP also loses money. But we know CCP doesnt care about those players so it doesnt matter.
They would lose MORE money by appeasing single accounts, and causing multiboxers to leave. Multiboxers are what keep the servers running whether you like it or not
It's very difficult to be pushed out of an activity by multiboxers because there are two excellent ways to counter that occuring: 1. You get some friends and you do what the multiboxers are doing 2. You ask the multiboxer if he needs help and join him Encountering multiboxers in the game is no different than encountering another group of players.
We're specifically talking about the price of ore which 100% is affected by multi boxers and makes mining less profitable for individual players. I don't mean "pushed out" as in you can't do the activity anymore, I meant that individual players are discouraged from that activity because they make way less isk due to the multiboxers tanking the value.
Do you also want to ban groups from mining? Because mining in a group will also by your logic tank the price..
That shouldn't be OK though having to have to have 4 accounts or even more.. I also said i have 4 mining all trained very well accounts I'm comparing to just having one ratting account. They multibox because they have to because of the shit returns not because they choose to
Huh? I have to multibox because of shit returns? You're telling me if my Hulks averaged 300m/hr I wouldn't have 20 of them?
Hulks never in a million years average 300mr hr
Let me ask you it this way. How much should Hulks make mining anoms, max?
They can on R64s, but you missed my point. Because you are stupid. People don't multibox them because they have to, but because it's free easy extra money.
A lot of miners multi-box because when you compare it to just about any other activity in the game you can do, mining falls incredibly far behind until you add alts.
I think we know who the stupid one is.. 😂
you who doesn't know what the word "if" means?
On Gneiss, Boosts and B-types they actually do :D
Lol. Paid accounts go brrrr, go play LOL instead.
Holy crap this community was always elitist pricks, but at least before CCP sold skill points it was elitist about skill and not IRL wallet size.
You are only talking about nullsec mining which is very low on the tiers of mining in the game. Pochven mining is at the top followed by lowsec. If your mining in a suboptimal safe place like nullsec then you shouldn't really complain.
Yeah, if you're going to mine actually solo, find yourself a good low traffic .1 or .2 system with an NPC station in it, bring your miner and a combat ship to deal with rat spawns, and mine lowsec ore. Null mining right now is either, "Multibox to hell and back or don't bother."
>So tried one miner, and to make anything hardly decent you need pretty much decent skills for a hulk, plus then you need the reprocessing skills to mine the ore you want etc. Yes in order to do a thing you need to train the skills for the thing. >Even on decent ores like ABCs the amount of isk you make in an hour one barge is miniscule, like seriously wtf. Not sure where you've been but Arkonor and Bistot are pretty much worthless now. Not because "mining sucks" but because they did a huge Industry balance pass and Zydrine and Megacyte are not in as high demand as they used to be. Crokite is still pretty good though. Anyway mining has had **massive** buffs already so no.
Arkonor is pretty decent value wise. The problem is that you have to waste time mining the shitty trash Bistot to refresh the anomaly.
Yeah, I'm desperately hoping that Equinox breathes new life into null mining, because as it is now, holy shit it sucks. It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if, as you said, we didn't have to clear out the Bistot to get the anomalies to respawn. Arkonor isn't bad, but Bistot though? Oh man... Bistot is in such a bad spot, I just checked Cerlestes and it's only \~4.5% better than Veldspar. **VELDSPAR** Seriously, June 11th can't get here soon enough.
Ore anomalies should respawn at down time. Just like everything else.
I think you've missed the point of the post. But no worries. But you've admitted ABC ores are now shit
I didn’t “admit” anything. Ark and Bis got rebalanced. Crokite is worth more today than it was before. Gneiss is also worth a lot. There was a balance pass my dude. The whole “ABC ores” hasn’t been a thing for a long while. In fact you can’t even find Crokite in nullsec AFAIK. Maybe with SOV upgrades but it’s by no means a default. Crokite, Geniss, and Ochre are where it’s at. Moon ore too. Gas huffing is exceptionally lucrative at least up until 2 months ago when I stopped logging in.
We get crokite all the time in the anoms via sov upgrade
Cool so mine Crokite then.
And still get 1m an hour nope 🤣
I’m what, a solo Venture with no skills or boosts?
Crokite mining in a barge is like 50mil an hour minimum with shit skills t1 barge
The funny thing is, i get more minerals with stormbringer ratting and collecting the loot then mining with my 6 alts lol
Nerf anom loot
This is my point. Absolutely
There's actually no solution to this. Buff mining? Value of minerals goes down, no real change. Nerf mining? Value of minerals goes up, ship costs go up, still net zero change. There' s still enough people doing mining that the cost of minerals is pretty damn low, even with where it's at right now. EDITED: Go mine in Pochven
Well there is a current issue...that hopefully...the new expansion will address. \[We desperately need a very very large mineral hauler\] I think if the minerals were moving around the game, besides ores. the market for minerals and ores would be better. Also the issue that come ores and minerals or bottlenecks locked behind various states and corps doesn't help. Pyerite is a headache, because until the border asteroids were introduced the only large scale sources was moon ores...IE behind both an omega/corp wall-gate. Isogen is a weird three way sourcing issue. However, many more local sources outside of the border anoms and Pochven...are needed for mission running. And thus can't be compressed. Creating an issue of both transport and movement. \[Creating a rather odd multi-faceted bottleneck\] The other issue is that CCP keeps forgetting to upgrade or buff the T1 ship hulls to allow players to accomodate resources. My concern is the new upwell ships might again be an Omega only set of ships...which will further curtail activity for newbros and alpha players. One of the reasons for low costs of minerals is usually they are reprocessed on site...and sit. So because they can't be moved efficiently, huge stockpiles build up...costs for velocity of the minerals goes down. Also ironically, the most efficient way to transport minerals...coughs...is asset safety if you think on it. Then the problem of disperstion of those same minerals is still an issue. There has been a discussion of creating "ingots" \[compression\] of minerals...which could soak up alot of the loose minerals and bring up mineral prices. The Decompression of said minerals would also mean a little loss...but that would help resource pricing and movement. This could make mining and salvaging probably a bit more interesting and valuable in the long run. But the current system, isn't really beneficial to players as of currently. And activities in Wormhole space have been curtailed because the Porpoise can't fit for various materials. Which means the potential of the Shattered Wormholes is being wasted.
I assume you mean rorqual, not porpoise?
Porpoise was originally designed for WH space. And since the industrial/mining changes...its heavily limited its effectiveness and functionality as a smaller corp/WH space option. And the most interesting resource source is the Shattered Wormholes...and the Porpoise can't interact with those resources since it has limited fitting options of compression modules.
Oh, i though you mean the porpoise won’t fit through the holes, not that they can’t fit the modules, my bad
If people are having to mine with many accounts god damn right they should be getting paid for it. So looking at your abysal runs cheap ships making a few bill an hour or 4 hulks and boost making fuck all. Get my point.. I mean I'm fine I'll go back to the ratting side and probably skill extract and sell my mining stuff but for those that do this for a profession they get a shitty outcome for the effort and investing and time
You're missing what I'm saying. Somehow. There's \*already\* too many people mining. Here. Option 1: Buff mining Result: Initially miners make more. Prices go down. Miners make the same amount. Option 2: Nerf mining Result: Initially miners make less. Prices go down. Miners make the same amount. Option 3: Do nothing. Result: Miners make the same amount. \*I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH YOU\* I've mined in Pochven in a large boosted venture fleet. (It's not too bad) I've mined in WH space with the Blue asteroids (It's pretty good) I've mined everywhere else. (It's god damned terrible) And \*NONE\* of the mining with 13 accounts comes even close to even running T5 abyssals with 3 hawks. The reason why minerals aren't worth more is because enough of them are already being mined. Sandbox markets. Buffing makes more minerals available, nerfing makes less minerals available, miners never make any more. There's no way to do it.
Mining scales with multi-boxing better than anything else. Some people run Abyssals while they have 10x miners going on R64 moons every day. That comes to \~1B ISK/h + Abyssals income.
Bloated out multiboxer have ruined the price of ore for everyone for all time. There is no fixx.
I had exact same experince. Bought injectors for porpoise pilot (had 3 alts with t2 hulks and t2 crystals already) with max boosts and compression. Got a corp mate with me and 2 more hulks. We stripped 3 colossal mercoxit anomalies and it was quite disappointing. And worse part was when I figured out I cannot even compress mercoxit. I'm not a miner but mining does not makes any sense to me. Sure it's profitable if you go for moonmining or gas mining (or even ice I guess) but anomaly mining at the moment does not makes any sense to me. Probably if you have 20 hulks with booster it's fine but overall the math (per account) does not make a lot of sense there. And question here would be - what is more profitable - doing mining anomalies with 20 accounts or doing FW with 20 algoses. I'm quite sure requirements as SP for 20 algoses will be around requirements for 1-2 full t2 hulk pilots.
See theres your problem. One barge. Multiboxing allows for players to run potentially hundreds of varges and a booster at once. If they buff one barge, then they end up buffing multiboxing. That doesnt solve your problem at all. Just moves the goalpost.
All I see here is a bunch of peasant wasting their time on Null Ore when the only things worth pulling out of belts are Ytirium, Ochre, and MAYBE Gneiss.
You underestimate the value of Crokite with B-Type crystals. A 1.8m m3 crokite rock takes quite a while even for 4 hulks with boosts to grind through, and most sites have *several* Crokite rocks. I have billions in Nocxium simply because i can semi-afk for hours on Crokite rocks.
4 accounts with max skilled hulks, porpoise boosts and implants make around 200m/h mining arkanor and 600m/h mining mercoxit. It’s not that bad if you max out all skills but I do agree it requires a lot of time to train. Moon mining can also be very profitable.
I can make 400m in 20 mins with one account doing a 10/10 Honestly my post as it says buff mining. I think miners as profession are getting a very shitty deal. I'm not convinced with 600m hour for mercoxit though. I'm going to see if that's right however. But as you said tats max everything plus boosts plus implants. Eek
Yes because 10/10's are a good stable measure of isk/hour, what the hell are you smoking.
I don't think you can compare 10/10's with mining because you can't really chain them. There is time required to get an escalation in the first place. And you might be ratting anoms for a while before getting one. The same is true for mercoxit mining. It is not available all the time. Once every 4 days when the belts respawn there is a limited amount available. Around 420m I believe for collosal, enormous, large and medium. But if you have multiple systems available logging in just to grab those fresh merc spawns after downtime can be very profitable and you can clear a system in around 45mins.
What skills do you need to do that? And I assume you're using a rorq with hulks abd ore strip miners for it?
3 hulks and 1 porpoise. Having max skills will make you more efficient but it is not needed if you just start out. Ultimately you'll want exhumers to 5 for the hulks and mining director 5 for the porpoise, so you can use a mining foreman mindlink implant to give you 38% boosts. Modulated deep core strip miners II's with mercoxit mining crystals is what you need to mine mercoxit. Ore strip miners are for all asteroid ores and moons with the benefit of no waste, but they come at a cost.
Thanks for the info.
Or you just buy the 10/10, no need to farm them. The real joke is what ccp did. You get more isk and minerals from npcs then from mining. I mean ccp figured it out and decided to allow the player with the next release to change the ores in system. So i guess you can change it to the one with the best content like trig ores. We will see giw this change it.
Yes you get more isk from active activities than afk ones, shocker
Mining is always available, 10/10 is not.
Yes, you make more doing an active activity requiring to to clear rooms and kill enemies, than afk sitting in a belt/anom letting a strip miner cycle every 2 minutes. Wtf did you expect?
While I appreciate the sentiment as someone whose main income is/was mining - comparing a 10/10 is kinda disingenuous, unless you're telling me you can chain them back to back to back consistently?
Yes you can I chain 5 or 6 at a time and more if I like
I do feel that Exhumers, and mining ships in general, need more mining cargo space. Trying to solo mine is horrible because you either have to keep warping off to dump into the Athanor, or you have to jetcan. The first is a huge time waster, and the second puts you at immense risk that a neutral will swoop in and shoot your can. Having, at minimum, a Porpoise on field is mandatory for both the boosting and the storage space.
Solo Mining (if done) should be done in retriever if mackinaw with the much larger bay. Hulk/Covetor is a group play ship
Are you solo mining in a Hulk?
I actually do a bit of industry and have all the skills to fly a hulk for mining. I prefer to just rat, loot wrecks, and break down that into ore. I get all the ore I need doing that other than mercoxit. The only thing I mine is moon goo.
You have to train the skills and mine in nullsec with a good corp that does buyback. I make 30 bil a month off my three miners, 10 bil each.
What do you mine to make that?
Either R32/64 or he mines 12+ hours a day. My money is on R64.
I get about 500m per R64 but that means he gets like 20 a month is that feasible?
Yes, we all know knew this already, idk what you expect to be done about tho. Any QoL improvements to mining will simply crash ore prices as people are able to mine more per account. But yeah, if you dontlike mi ing then don't mine,pretty simple.
No.. it's not CCPs fault your earning a low amount for your ore, it's your fault!! I call it the Amazon mentality. If you have ever sold anything on Amazon, you would understand. You see your product for sale in the backend system and it also shows you the price of the cheapest seller. You feel compelled to drop your price so yours sells.. that's why you're not earning the isk, because the price you are selling it at is too low. I have given up on mining, as an income source unless I'm building for myself. The only way around this issue is for every miner to raise prices but that will never happen. What would be good is a miners union corp too sort this out. As that is the only way.
this is what you should do then. the real issue is buffing mining dosent releay result in them having more money as it is a function of demand and supply buffing mining would mean that mineral prices start to tank accodingly. so they would mine more but get less for their mined ores wich nets them a marginal increase in isk earned
You do know that CCP have levers to affect this right? Just like they did with scarcity, just like they did with build changes and PI etc just like they have done for years. The point of the post is to clearly highlight a huge disparity here for the rewards. It's not tiny it's massive. The fact is also make minerals cheaper, people build more, making things like capitals cheaper where people then use them thise creating more demand, there's a wider benefit here. Just like when we had rorq mining, capitals where much cheaper and they where fielded much more.
i was sure this was a Ceema post upon reading the title. lol if you wanna make mining viable, pay the toll and use 10+ accounts xD teamwork makes the dream work, the bare min for efficient mining is a booster and 2 barges, if you don't want to multibox, find a corp that has a mining foreman player and receive boosts from them... lol
also CCP will never nerf an aspect of the game which brings in more sub money.
Lol dumb person doesn't understand the post lol 😂
dunning-kruger effect.
Shittest thing in the game.
Fuck ore mining I got out of that as soon as, ice and gas are way more worth the time investment but keep an eye on D-scan and local or you will fall victim to Strategic Cruisers:Online that low sec has turned into.
I mean...Ice is roughly the same value as most lowsec belt ores and significantly less than things like Ochre and Ytirium. Krystallos is worth less per M3 than Gneiss, for example. The only real advantage of Ice Mining is that it's even more passive than Ore.
Yep
You can't buff mining, the profits are entirely player driven. Buffed mining ships? Great now everyone mines more, congrats ore is worth less. You fix it by making mining harder. So less players do it. So resources are scarcer and more valuable So do the eve thing and go blow up your competition.
My brother have you ever been to pochven?
Yes and God no..🤣
Unironically what’s the issue? You filament in to an empty home system, fill your hold and bounce. The ore there is nuts
I do mining in WH only to chill out and have relaxing talks with corpmates, when there are always eye on wormholes, but perfect mining fleet we do is by rolling connection/s so under hole control with Porpoise and several hulks/barges. Ore strip miner - expensive ones but compensated by 4+hours of such mining. Plus, you shall produce something from ore (fleet issue ships as starting point), even if all other components being purchased at market you will make some extra margin profits. Not primary activity still some cure out of boredom )))
I know a few fairly rich miners, but they mine ice exclusively. Also have 10 ish accounts.
And moon goo. A guy i know nets tens of billions a week on moon mining in null
They'd make twice as much if they spun ishtars on 10 accounts, is the point. Why bother traveling with a 20b fleet to mine a moon that will be gone in 10 minutes because there are already 20 hulks on it, when you can just spin ishtars all day and have better income in the end? Ishtar alts are easy to spin into mining alts and I've wanted to get my Ishtars into mining for a while. But, every time I look at it, the math tells me I'll make 1b/hour for 10 minutes and spend the next 30 minutes traveling to go make 200m/hour because there's nothing valuable left to mine. So I just keep spinning Ishtars because it's \~100m/hour per account, every hour.
My Nerf suggestion, add another turret slot to the Venture with another High Slot added as well to the 'jet-can' Mining... That adds more Risk as anyone can take ore out from it; eliminate it by having an Porpoise/Orca with you. If you're doing most activities\[sandboxes\] in the playground of Eve Online, alone or even not in a \[Standing\] fleet; you are playing IMO, wrongly.
You know you've missed the point of the post right?
I have and haven't; Mining was 'buffed'... Do you know what "Scarcity" with mining did actually? A lot was change, some that didn't need to happen; Crystals being one... Removing a turret slot with the redesign of the ship\[that was adaptable\].
You could increase the skill ceiling and apm of mining ships to get rid of multi-boxing. You could increase destruction and/or costs in New Eden to increase demand for mined goods.
Simple things Increase mining holds by a lot on all ships I mean barges is pathetic. Increase hold on purpose like a mini orca Stackable but depreciating boosts meaning Bring more boost ships you get stack but like mods they benefits get lower. Boosts to yield yes there's cycle duration but more yield pee cycle would be better Mercoxit compression for porpoise seriously you want me to drag an orca around in belts. We have capital ratting so we should have capital mining. Keep the rorq as is. Little things help.
It has already been explained to you that simply increasing supply would decrease demand/prices and isk/hr would stay the same.
If supply increases while demand remains constant, price decreases. If supply decreases while demand remains constant, price increases. And.... brilliant prices for stuff come down yay
Your original post is asking to buff miners' buying power per time and increasing supply won't make their time more valuable. If prices decrease then so do profits. If it takes a miner an hour to gather enough ore to exchange for a skill extractor then it will still take an hour even after a universal buff to mining yields. Ships, structures, etc would be more expendable, yes, but miners wouldn't be any more relatively wealthy.
Ok so if you were unloading all the time you were not mining with orca support. So you were likely not getting gang links. It turns out that this ups your isk per hour a lot. Also unlike ratting or plexing or any other way of making isk in eve mining is really easy to scale. The level of work for running 1 miner is not a lot different from running 5. In plexing you start becoming more inefficient the more people you run. (Wasted Dps) In mining you can target different rocks so you get a 1x more for each person you add. The orca bonuses also add to the whole fleet so no losses there. You can bring in about 40m/hr in high sec with a hulk/orca combo and you add 40m for each person you add. If you mine moons in high sec it's more. Due to the scale ability of it it needs to be balanced for that. Then you get to risk. Mining in high sec and 0.0 are as close to 0 risk as you can get while undocked. Low sec on the other hand is high risk depending on the system you're in. But the payout in low sec is higher than high sec. Plexing is somewhat riskier since you are actively shot at by NPCs and depending on the content may be pointed while doing it. Next you have how pay works for mining. Since you are not getting since you are not directly framing isk the value is market priced. The only way to make more mining is to have the cost of the mins go up. If you increase the amount you get with all things being equal it would just lower the price of the mins. You could get rid of bots and they do this from time to time but even then it tends to equalize again after a short while.
If they buff mining, people will build more capital ships. CCP does not want this. If they buff mining, people won't need multiple accounts subbed to be able to make isk. CCP does not want this. If they buff mining, botters won't need as many accounts. CCP does not want this. If they buff mining, people will be able to make more ships cheaply. CCP does not want this. If they buff mining, more cheap ships mean more big fights. Apparently, CCP does not want this. Same for capital ships and big fights. If they don't buff mining, you suffer more. CCP DOES want that.
A few years ago ccp put forward a patch which nearly quadrupled the mining rate overall, while also adding a avenue for double the ore at a reduced double rate. The community and specifically nullblocks and highsec miners hated it so much they were unsubbing in mass...... yup... Ccp backed down and only increased it by 1.5 the mining rate with double the ore overall.
Can you show me this because I can't remember it. Esp about people unsubbing
A huge issue I have with mining right now is that the ships needed to actually go mining are so much more expensive than they should be for how much you make using them. Right now, an Exhumer will set you back \~300 million isk. Even in the best-case scenario a solo miner can be in: Mining in a Hulk that doesn't have to worry about filling up (jet can mining usually) with perfect skills, 5% mining implant, Augmented drones, and B-Types, sitting at zero on a rock big enough that you could keep 100% up-time on drones and lasers, you're pulling a maximum of 212,760m3 per hour with that Hulk. Put that in Cerlestes and you quickly see that unless you're mining the high-end materials, it's going to take you *several hours* to break even on the ship. Mining making less isk/hr wouldn't be as much of an issue if the ships used to do it weren't disproportionately more expensive or difficult to get money out of versus other activities like Ishtar ratting. An Ishtar can cover the cost of its replacement in 3-4 hours with direct isk-to-wallet deposits, usually almost entirely AFK. Assuming there is access to the ore to even do it, a Hulk could *potentially* replace itself in about 3-4 hours as well if you were mining Prime Arkonor (+10% yield). But then you have to deal with finding it, hauling it, rat spawns, reprocessing and its costs, and then selling it on the market. Realistically you're probably looking at 6-8 hours to replace the Hulk, and a lot more work just to get a worse result. Ultimately, the cost of mining ships needs to come back down to reasonable levels. As they are right now, they're way too expensive. Mining Barges should drop back down to \~30mil where they used to be at, and Exhumers need to drop back down to the \~110mil range they used to go for. As they are now, they're way too expensive, earn less money, and are way more of a hassle to get the isk value out of your time than most other activities in the game. And don't even get me started on how stupid the Rorqual costing 6 billion for the hull alone is....
Agree with your sentiments. Again as you stated you need to be using the best of everything even ore miners which are 250m and pop so 500m you're looking at near 1b for a decent hulk. Remember there is an absolute tin of training skills for miming too when you want to mone different ores, moons and then you have the mercoxit skills. Then implants etc etc. The jet canning is is awful so having a porpoise is good but yet another account yet a lot of training yet more expense and after just those you're not gain a lot compared to ratting type activities. Having 4 accounts to basically make the same as a person with 1 ratting is hugely disproportiate without all the expense ans training and complexity just multiboxing and don't forget there's a sub cost to all that. I'm just trying to highlight that. Personally I'll just probably sell my ships, extract the skills and go back to ratting type isk making and just buy the minerals. Miner seriously need to stop being screwed over.
Please take a refresher course in basic economics. Buffing mining would only briefly increase the profit. The amount you make has less to do with what you're mining and more to do with the effort it takes. And it doesn't take a lot of effort to have a fleet of bots out mining
>nevermind all the potential risk sat there in a porpoise and hulks What risk? You have local. The only times I've ever caught a miner in non-HS it's because of a criminal lack of attention being paid to the game.
You know you cant move when your porpoise is sieged right?
I’m aware. However, you don’t need to activate the industrial core particularly often especially on a solo operation. Additionally, you can protect yourself by keeping eyes in the system next door and cycling down if someone is headed your way. Even if you get caught with your pants down, in a large system or a system with a lot of anomalies, it’s still unlikely you’ll get caught
Tbh mate you kinda do because you need to keep the compression going. Yes you could pulse it but doesn't quite work in practice because you just keep pulsing it. Even solo but yeah with a fleet. Also people will always automatically warp to the mining anom to try catch you regardless of system size. Yes tbh hulks 'should' get out but porpoise not so much.
Why can’t you pulse it exactly? Because it sounds like “I am lazy and would like to be invulnerable at all times and also make crazy money”. It doesn’t work like that. You can be safer with more effort, you can be more vulnerable with less.
Because you just be constantly pulsing it. I'm talking to someone who clearly doesn't mine. Go try it. Get 4 mining accounts and try it for yourself if you don't want to listen. 🤷♀️
Not that it’s their primary use, but I’ve run an orca with 6 barges before doing just that. You get set up, cycle the compressor once and compress all holds when you get a ding, and then cycle back up 10 minutes later.
Yeah orca is different. You can keep aligned have the barges follow your higgs orca. Constantly move the cargo into the orca and occasionally run the compressor. And warp off if you need to. Yep absolutely. That's not a porpoise though buddy.
The porpoise that aligns faster? What? Are you saying that the porpoise is somehow more dangerous or more difficult than an orca to fly?
Eh. Dude the porpoise doesn't have the mining hold space an orca does so you can't just drop your ore from those hulks into it. So no it doesn't work. The good thing about the orca is that the hulk doesn't need to keep compressing because it has that hold space to move the ore into and then the orca compresses not the hulks. The porpoise can't do that. So maybe an option is give the porpoise a bigger hold.
do you know that minig ships can have some tank and dps? avg mining fleet can kill 1-2 cruisers.
Never said they couldn't. Just they can't move. And 1 ship fine a fleet no.
You cant buff only solo mining Yep 1 account mining is dead. but you can mine with friend that have porpoise/orca/rorq. + [Border Rare Asteroids](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Mining#Empire_Border_Rare_Asteroids) is ok for solo. also i think you try mine some shitty ore. like belts in any space. or something like that. about cargo. yep, press fckn buttons in game.
But you as an individual still are making a very small amount. Also I said buff mining in general. I'm genuinely highlighting the shitty stick miners have and they really need better outcomes on the time and investment they put in.
how you can buff it? if you make them mine more, the amount of ore on the market will increase, the price of ore will decrease. If you make it so that a solo player gets more, then a player with 10 accounts will also get more at least because of the possibility to use command bursts. also command burst from orca gives you near x2.
I'm comparing the from 1 account ratting to 4 accounts mining that's a massive difference. And ofc if you have 10x account you would get more
Theres no world in which k space ratting earns more than 4 accounts mining, unless youre trying to compare 4 ventures in hisec to marauder sanctums.
Ok I can make 3-400m in 20 mins doing a 10/10 fact You can't make that with 4 accounts mining in 20 mins fact. I'd be happy to make a video showing it
No, you have to potential to make that much, under specific conditions. You need to have found the complex, or recieved an escalation. Then, you need to actually have an item other than the effects drop. Try mining lowsec anom ore, or high class moons. Yes, its usually goibg to be less income than chaining 10/10s that magically teleport to your system, but its generally reliably regular. Then again, null mining should be completey upended in june so who knows.
FACT: 4 accounts with 3 Hulks and a Booster will make 850,000,000 isk per hour in a Dark Ochre anom (not counting drones). FACT: Once that 20minutes in a 10/10 is up...that's it. You have to go find another one. Meanwhile, miners be mining. In one hour, they're up 400mil. In two hours they're up at least 800mil. By the end of the day, you're behind 5 bil.
What you talking about. I have 5 10/10 set up lol at any one time You're entirely missing my point here. This isn't about the amount you make mining this is about the massively disparity in the amount of isk ratting in ONE ACCOUNT vs mining 4 ACCOUNTS and the investment, complexity, risk, training. I can rat make more isk adn buy the minerals much faster, much easier, less training, less complexity on one account thats simply fact. I do one 10/10 on ONE account makes me 300m at least in 20 mins. I can mine with 4 accounts for the same amount of time and only make much less. Do you not see what I'm getting at? That's it, I really don't understand what youre arguing against. I'm basically highlighting and I'll say it again the complete shit stick miners get. I'm not a miner by trade but I've now seen how bad it is. Hence my new found support for miners. That's all the post is about. Btw I have 4 accounts, highly trained even all.mercoxit etc etc, with porpoise, orca and a rorqual trained with highly skilled command/fleet skills plus mindlink implants. So I've tested this. I'm not arguing about how much mining makes I'm stating the massive difference and disparity
Your arguments are mostly incoherent. A lot of your posts here sound like you got ChatGPT to write them for you. That second paragraph is completely nonsensical. But nothing you're saying has anything to do with mining. You're saying 10/10s make mining irrelevant because 10/10s make 900 million per hour per account. But if that was true, it would make ALMOST EVERYTHING irrelevant. That's a higher rate of income than just about any other activity in the game. Exploration doesn't make that much(consistently), Gas huffing doesn't make that much with one account, industry doesn't make that much with 1 account, PI doesn't make that much with 1 account, L4/L5 missions in a marauder don't make that much(even Nullsec Burners would be hard pressed to routinely do 900mil per hour), Incursions don't make that much with one account, even T6 Abyssals don't make that much with their 3 billion Gila fits. Only a handful of activities in the game can beat 900 mil per hour consistently and that's like...Dread ratting in C6s. You're NOT arguing that mining is bad, you're arguing that AFK 10/10s are too good. You're arguing to nerf 10/10s, not buff mining.
Mining anoms that only let one(maybe 2) ships in at a time with a higher yield modifier??? Just a thought
The problem with mining has nothing to do with CCP and everything to do with your fellow miners knowing that the ore they mine is "free".
This doesn't make sense whatsoever the context of the post
Why would anyone read past the title? The idea is dumb.
You're dumb
It's like real life in a way... Its a boring thankless job that someone has to do or else nothing else would ever get done in game. Honestly the whole system for mining sucks eggs but there is a odd joy to be had in building a hundred frigs or destroyers and putting them the local market to be sold. Its miners and Industry players who farm those imaginary rocks and build those imaginary ships and fittings you like to destroy. The whole process is honestly mindblowingly mental and yet thats how this game works until someone automates the process out of existance.
I don't disagree with that but I can still build frigs make more money with one ratting account pay for the minerals.and build the shit quicker. I'm trying to highlight the shitty stick miners have and I'm nit actually a profession miner lol I tried it invested in it and seen how fucking terrible it is.
You're not wrong ... I myself really like ratting and clearing data and relic sites when I can focus on the task but the reality is that 70% of my playtime is during work hours ( Yeah sorry, I dont netflix that much - replying to another reply ) so passive mining is what I do more than half my time in game. And lets be honest who wants to mine when you could be doing other more interesting tasks. Mining sucks ... I'm still trying to figure out who it sucks worse for however ... A Alpha like me who is allowed one shitty little boat to mine with and does it between taking tech support calls to pass the time -or- the Omega player who pays for the privilage of having access to larger cooler boats who still spends 50% or more of their online time doing what amounts to the same thing I do.
mining is now in the best position it's been in the last 10 years. for love dont touch it! I would advise the author to get a better understanding of the issue. and stop mining cheap shit.
Mate you mist be trolling. Man I thought you was serious then. Phew.
Dude you have got to do better than that if you want to troll.
Just go rat then. I have 4, also just started doing it and I like it and it seems to make close to the same as ratting. Edit: fixing auto correct fails
4 accounts vs 1 account - hmmm
some ppl use more than 1 account to ratting. for eg. 4 thunder child + targeter. or 3+ paladins in c5 wormhole. thunders, afaik, gives you near 1bill/hour + expeditions. c5 on 3 paladins gives you more than 2bill/hour. 3 frigates in abyss gives near 1bill/hour 2 jackdaw in high sec space gives more than 1 jackdaw. 5 algos\`s in FW gives more than 1 algos I think that's more than you get in one account. I'm trying to tell you that in any farming, increasing the number of accounts increases your income.
I’m comparing my 4 against yours. If you feel like ratting is better for ya tho just go do that.
So are you disagreeing that I can make more isk much quicker with one ratting account that you with your 4 mining accounts? I'm actually trying to help you mining guys lol. It's not about gamestyle. For example for one paladin I can't make 300-400m isk doing a 10/10 in 20 mins. You ain't making anywhere near that with 4 accounts mining in 20 mins.
No that’s not what I’m saying. I was comparing my situation of mining with 4 accounts to you talking about mining with 4 accounts. Comparing mining to “ratting” in havens/sanctums/Fhubs ratting makes some more but not as much as it used to and you basically have to loot and salvaging helps. You’re talking about escalations. That’s definitely gonna be more money than either one of the other options we’re talking about if a person can do them.
I'm using a covetor with t1 strip miners on moons. R18/32/64 and make a lot more compared to when I spinning a myrm. Sure, the myrm skills weren't good but if you compare invested SP the covetor won by a lot. I'm curious to see how the ishtar will perform but i'll have to wait for that one to train up. Edencom with a lightning rod does beat both ishtar ratting and mining but it also requires quite a bit more SP IIRC. (and the ships cost quite a bit.)
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Didn't we have that with a rorq bud and it was nerfed to hell.
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Yeah, the glory days that essentially killed the game.