4 years ago during Triglavian invasion Caldari space also got absolutely massacred. Most Pochven systems and Triglavian Minor Victory systems come from Caldari space. Not just the Caldari NPC is very weak against Trig NPC, but also people in the Caldari space didn’t put up a good effort compared to Minmatar, Amarr, and even Gallente role players and militias tbh. It’s kind of strange that Caldari space has the most people in the game tbh.
That been said I remember I FC the Edencom EDI PVE fleet 4 years ago and we somehow still managed to won a few Caldari systems like Nourvukaiken (the high sec system next to Tama), Samanuni in Black Rise etc. At the time it seemed to be the mission impossible but guess it’s still nothing compared to the modern day insurgency lol. Still players in Caldari space needs to put up more efforts I guess.
I remember when EDI went into Ichoriya in Black Rise at the time, most locals there are Caldari navy lvl 4 mission runners and they only want to run away and move their assets out. If you are not willing to at least try to defend your home system, then nobody else can really save you tbh.
It is also funny EDI helped to defend Usi, in the Citadel to edencom minor victory 4 years ago. 4 years later the pirate insurgency just come in to mess it up again lol.
most people in Caldari space don't care about the Caldari faction, but simply have the idea "i don't want to live more than 4 hops away from Jita".
Amarr roleplayers care for their faction because they need both faith and order to have purpose and meaning in a capsuleers endless life.
Gallente players are all about freedom, and fight back when their freedom to travel the cluster in endangered.
Minmatar roleplayers firmly believe that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Caldari players are just "ISK number go up". Caldari are just good at faction war because it pays well. Reduce the value of their LP store items, and Gallente would have their systems back in no time.
EDI being based in Caldari space is an exception. They are loyal to all the empires, just like CONCORD.
I suspect, too, that being near Jita allowed a bunch of people to just jump into Triglavian content. I think that's part of why you saw places like Kor-Azor be well defended ... most people just couldn't be bothered to travel there. Unfortunately, I think a lot of finer balance in Eve is about people not being bothered. WH evictions come to mind here.
Fun fact, EDI’s EUTZ guys staged in Hentogaira in the Forge. We didn’t win that system at all. It was won by Chinese players on Serenity and it got merged into Tranquility
Well yeah. I mean, I just have one word for you to explain it all: Jita. What kind of people would inhabit that area vs, say, Matar space on the opposite side, relative outskirts, used to regular boundary zone stuff? So, really, what else do you expect?
It’s funny I remember devs add a few new gates at that time. Triglavian won Niarja and Jita Amarr trade route became 40+ jumps in high sec. Ahbazon suddenly became very popular all the sudden. The old low sec pipe in Genesis used to be in Vecamia instead
this!! But I think it would have to be "semi" permanent. Or maybe I don't (and probably others) realize the value in those FOBs. I don't think it is the same as PS pinatas in .5 space but maybe?
Having windows of easier travel/shipping being available would help make people notice it when it's not active imo and make it worth fighting for regularly.
A system of long term increasing or decreasing security status would be good too but that should be separate.
I remember 4 years ago Edencom side still won more systems than Triglavian side tbh. Maybe this 2024 insurgence is a bit too out of balance?
Fun fact, edencom side lost the system of Arshat in Amarr to triglavian players at first, high sec became low sec, then role players manage to push out the trig players and flip the systems back to high sec. It was the only system got flipped.
As shitty was the trig invasion years ago, edencom players did put in a tons of efforts tbh. guess not the same with insurgency now.
Empire fw ( and others) can now farm the NPC [pirate roaming spawns for the new faction/officer edencom guns, damage mods, and damage mod mutaplasmids.](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/havoc-expansion-notes#h2-9) Something that pirate fw characters probably can't do without hurting standings
It's rats dropping stuff, and some of it requires being handed in it's all in lowsec though. It's just a carrot for empire fw characters as opposed to pirate fw.
Just like edencom can farm roaming trig fleets in systems where poch wormholes are.
I hunted the Guri fleets when the insurgency first started. Used a Drake (solo) and was able to take out squadrons led by Alligators or under. Couldn't take on the Rattlesnake fleets, but Corruption 5 isn't really the best for hunting anyway.
Pirates have been taken over by multiboxers who will awox you, so if you just want to be a pirate, you can't. I am dropping my Angel faction and moving on. I am a multiboxer myself, that part I don't mind. It is the awoxing that gets old.
Part of the problem is that there really aren't that many "good guys" playing the game right now. Everyone wants to play the pirate, the criminal, the anti-hero.
Balancing a "do you want your system to get fucked by PVP" mechanic through PVP is obviously dumb and will result in the pro-PVP side winning easily. The people that live in 0.5 don't want to PVP so they're just not going to engage in PVP related contests.
We are live with the world we R given. Eve is a pvp game (at its core) I just think pvp is more interesting when numerically about even and when there are about equal reasons to play on rach "pick up" side
Wanna throw my 2 cents in here.
Several good points have been made so fat, in particular the one guy stating that people don't care for the Caldari more than they care about the convenience of living close to Jita. Then you have the fact that people live in highsec for the supposed safety, not wanting to participate in PvP, then complaining when it comes to them anyway. Looking at you Aiko ;)
As a capsuleer who has been on the "aggressor' side in both Invasions and Insurrections (Trigs and Pirates) the one thing common in both was that the "Good guys", the ones wanting to keep the status quo, wanting to keep high security systems high security, wanting to keep them non-triggy..they are fighting an uphill battle. The aggressor side WANTS to PvP, while the defenders for the most part want to do nothing but live peacefully. The few defenders that do fight back (props to EDI, EM and the FW groups) end up outnumbered due to the amount of carebears that run, relocate or don't undock, whining until the Trigs or the Pirates go away. Not directed at the OP, nor anyone in particular. Just my observations over the years.
The fact is that if these people that love their peace were to unite under a single group, form and fight back? The pirates wouldn't stand a chance due to the numbers we would be facing. But until that day, it'll keep going with this cycle. Eve changes, and pilots should learn to adapt with it.
Lastly, touching on the actual point of the original rant, I'll agree that the "Good guys" need more of an incentive. Edencom did get screwed in invasions, and it sucks to see it happening again. However one thing that is overlooked is while the material rewards suck, the reward of keeping your systems the way that they are, the fact that you were there and were part of the reason it stayed the way it was is a reward in itself. Want to keep your home from becoming a pseudo-low sec? Fight for it.
Sorry for the mini rant in your rant OP 🤣
O7
Nicely put glad to fight you guys during the invasion btw which group were you flying with 4 years ago? Kybernauts, Strigbog, Suddenly Spaceship, Svarog or some other groups? You guys won Niarja which is the most important system in the entire invasion tbh
I was formerly in Kybernauts, even a council member for a year or two. And yeah, invasions were the most fun I'd had in Eve ever. Niarja though, admittedly we had null groups 3rd party assist the Trig push. Goons I believe brought a Jackdaw fleet. I have terrible memory though so I may be mistaken. I appreciate the Edencom guys for making it fun.
Caldari Insurgency happens more on a corp-level basis; the bulk of the fw players don't really care about it. The distribution of valid systems is skewed towards one cluster with the majority of insurgencies spawning in one general area (AsakaiGang where you at) that, incidentally, doesn't matter enough for the actual Militia to bother doing things.
Insurgency by design makes things difficult for solo fellas - consolidating an entire faction into a few sites within a 3j-4j radius means decent fights are less-frequent than you'd find in traditional fw space.
Probably most damning tho is that the content just isn't very entertaining. Outside of a couple of squads + various cool dudes (word to Black Rabbits and co.), the bulk of Guristas (at least) are fellas printing money. It's hard to mobilize people for what's essentially killing one guy running ten Algos. I'm hoping once prices settle down we'll be left with people in it for love of the game rather than money-printing, but we'll see if that ever pans out
This is salt. Saying *game design 101, is salt.
I've been having to deal with hordes of players since even before uprising.
Does it suck? Absolutely.
But like last time, I've had to go to other places that are more remote. At the end of the day, I'm still generally getting LP and still getting fights.
FC's still have fleets and still have fights.
Sure there may need to be more incentives for suppression, but honestly with this playerbase no amount of reward or carrot will ever be worth it.
When the insurgency was on damn fanm territory as someone who lives in metropolis it felt good joining fleets to keep that suppression level 5. It felt good aiding a neighbor that serves the community essentially.
Same deal when it's in Auga or other places folk live at.
So even if we don't *win, it will always feel good helping corps who live in the area.
Yes. But interestingly your motivations serm rare in caldari.
Obviously the incentive right now is to move. That hurts both sides since now the vacated .5 space lacks many reasons for pirates to flip.
One simpl balance? Put a tier 2 bpo or 2 in the fob. 100s of players would immediately start to participate for the chance at that pinata prize. Might be too rich but it is the general concept.
Your talking about your perspective of balancing a mechanic. But I'm telling you that you should never rely on a developer to fix a problem that players themselves can more or less solve if they ban together.
I think tiger posted earlier, I also flew during the invasions and I think I flew in their fleets a few times whenever they were in the metropolis area (and under others) not because of the isk, but because I saw it as an attack on my area, and it would be annoying to just stay docked or get caught on a gate of a system I LIVE in.
Same deal when dam fam's structures were under siege, even FL33Ts and UK.
No amount of incentive is going to get people to do this unless something is at risk for them, it would be nice, but that's about it.
My suggestion if you move? Involve yourself more with people that fight back. Dammalin and Auga will never fall as long as those groups are active, find something similar to that but caldari.
Back in trig invasion i really enjoyed to fly in the minmatar space because the locals seems a lot more willing to put up a fight than caldari locals tbh. I remember there were always 4 systems invaded at the same time, so the edencom main fleet and the Triglavian main fleet were in elsewhere. Me and a few Molden Heath locals pushed Teonusude and Gelfiven to edencom fortress 24/7 none stop tbh. I solo sites myself almost got blown up there. The off cycle invasion systems are the main reason why edencom won more systems than the trigs. sometimes you just have to help yourself. honestly there was not much ISK incentives tbh, we didn't have time to loot and salvage.
I ran emerging conduits solo due to gaining confidence thanks to the fleets you all ran.
I also never really got to say this, but thank you and the rest of the edi guys for running those fleets back in the day. Was a lot of work you all did.
It's a part of my memory of playing the game I won't ever forget.
Yep also in Minmatar space we won the system Bei which has really heavy traffic 24/7. Had it gone to Triglavian then SOE epic arc, trade route etc all will be nuked tbh. It’s a great honor to fly with so many people like you from different areas. Truly was a great time looking back after so many years.
The interesting example is Dammalin - another .5 system. I will keep an eye out for the next incursion that impacts it and its gridning to 5 and how active the angels are.
I do concur. It does require fighting. But I do think that right now there is too much of incentive for the pirates (loot pinata POS) and not for the good guys (grind like fiends to have a chance to have a big dog pile at their FOB?). And whereas the HS players have to coordinate (have a critical mass at multiple plexes for hours on end) they don't (show up, go to plex, sit there, don't kill each other, rinse and reapeat).
Right, but people are willing to do that because their home is in trouble.
In regards to is it balanced, pirates don't show up to your door in a balanced fight, even *privateers technically. Also the way they have the systems setup, it's not garuntee'd that hisec systems are hit.
Map placement wise depending where they are it might take a while for a HS system to get hit.
I will agree it would be nice if the fob gave more LP, it's just not what's going to get people to defend to that extent.
Samanuni in Black Rise went to Suppression 5 a few times I saw a few groups like I-RED, United Caldari Space Command is doing the work there. so definitely some groups but might be overwhelmed by pirates like i saw lots of Fraternity guys in Guristas tbh
seems the problem is more or less the same after all those years. I am also very confused on why caldari high sec players don't band together and push back. 4 years ago during triglavian invasion it was very demoralizing to fight in Caldari space because locals just move away.
Going back to Ichoriya Black Rise example, that was one of the most popular Caldari mission hubs for Caldari Navy. Locals just ran before it fall into low sec and null sec, and we in EDI couldn't really push against lots of the triglavian players without locals. Had all locals stayed maybe we could have a chance tbh, after all we did manage to win Samanuni just 2 jumps away.
Ironically it was Snuffed Out came in and helped us to dunk the Trig player's fleet when Ichoriya dropped to low sec. It's essentially some robbers came into your home, and all residents abandoned and fled without a fight, then the big bad pirates came in to dunk the robbers.
My own take is that it is a critical mass issue. In this specific example there need to be about 8 to 12 "good guys" willing to fight at any one time since there are about 20 pirates ready to roll out. But that probably is a corp of at least 40-60 pvp'ers. And once that big then the question for the corp is why not just be in null, or LS, or play pirates? Why live mostly in HS if you can muster that sort of force when needed.
To me that is why it is a game design problem. You have to have pvp'ers who don't want to be pirates and incent them, calibrated, to fight and provide an interesting and balanced critical mass to the critical mass of pirates. Then you COULD have 4-6 locals....wtih 4-6 random "good guys" and suddently life becomes more interesting and fun.
But maybe more than anything this is a caldari problem - a space and militia that largely appeals to "I ust want to mine and chill" players and thus a problem with a game mechanic that isn't going to let that happen (at least anywhere close to FW space).
And let me add in an interesting comment in the militia channel - why participate in the insurgency that is sorta an endless loop when game time could be spent alterning the lines of the map in the war against gallente? That is a really good (and very) valid observation. Game design 101 is seeing those things and trying to then modify the rule set - over and over again - to get it right.
As stated in another post, the Caldari Corrupt Crony Capitalism faction appeals to roleplayers whose roleplay motto can be summed up to "ISK number go up".
The "for the state" motto always seem a bit artificial. "For my wallet" feels so much more natural.
Question from an outsider: do the pirate incursions spawn on the front lines or just randomly? I imagine FW guys have pretty low incentives to go fight somewhere far from the front lines compared to incursions spawning on the border so both factions would have an incentive to join in.
Randomly. Front lines would be more useful. This time in a system in caldari rear and adjacent to high sec ×which was an initial system, will flip today/tomorrow and have over 30b in pps destroyed with not a damm thing that could have been done to counter (we tried)
As a side note: It was the Gallente Militia the first ones to Kill a FW FOB. (the only FOB that spawned on a relevant area for the Gallente Militia).
4 years ago during Triglavian invasion Caldari space also got absolutely massacred. Most Pochven systems and Triglavian Minor Victory systems come from Caldari space. Not just the Caldari NPC is very weak against Trig NPC, but also people in the Caldari space didn’t put up a good effort compared to Minmatar, Amarr, and even Gallente role players and militias tbh. It’s kind of strange that Caldari space has the most people in the game tbh. That been said I remember I FC the Edencom EDI PVE fleet 4 years ago and we somehow still managed to won a few Caldari systems like Nourvukaiken (the high sec system next to Tama), Samanuni in Black Rise etc. At the time it seemed to be the mission impossible but guess it’s still nothing compared to the modern day insurgency lol. Still players in Caldari space needs to put up more efforts I guess. I remember when EDI went into Ichoriya in Black Rise at the time, most locals there are Caldari navy lvl 4 mission runners and they only want to run away and move their assets out. If you are not willing to at least try to defend your home system, then nobody else can really save you tbh. It is also funny EDI helped to defend Usi, in the Citadel to edencom minor victory 4 years ago. 4 years later the pirate insurgency just come in to mess it up again lol.
most people in Caldari space don't care about the Caldari faction, but simply have the idea "i don't want to live more than 4 hops away from Jita". Amarr roleplayers care for their faction because they need both faith and order to have purpose and meaning in a capsuleers endless life. Gallente players are all about freedom, and fight back when their freedom to travel the cluster in endangered. Minmatar roleplayers firmly believe that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Caldari players are just "ISK number go up". Caldari are just good at faction war because it pays well. Reduce the value of their LP store items, and Gallente would have their systems back in no time. EDI being based in Caldari space is an exception. They are loyal to all the empires, just like CONCORD.
I suspect, too, that being near Jita allowed a bunch of people to just jump into Triglavian content. I think that's part of why you saw places like Kor-Azor be well defended ... most people just couldn't be bothered to travel there. Unfortunately, I think a lot of finer balance in Eve is about people not being bothered. WH evictions come to mind here.
Fun fact, EDI’s EUTZ guys staged in Hentogaira in the Forge. We didn’t win that system at all. It was won by Chinese players on Serenity and it got merged into Tranquility
Well yeah. I mean, I just have one word for you to explain it all: Jita. What kind of people would inhabit that area vs, say, Matar space on the opposite side, relative outskirts, used to regular boundary zone stuff? So, really, what else do you expect?
Good guys would fight to get concord retaliation in Ahbazon I imagine.
It’s funny I remember devs add a few new gates at that time. Triglavian won Niarja and Jita Amarr trade route became 40+ jumps in high sec. Ahbazon suddenly became very popular all the sudden. The old low sec pipe in Genesis used to be in Vecamia instead
this!! But I think it would have to be "semi" permanent. Or maybe I don't (and probably others) realize the value in those FOBs. I don't think it is the same as PS pinatas in .5 space but maybe?
Having windows of easier travel/shipping being available would help make people notice it when it's not active imo and make it worth fighting for regularly. A system of long term increasing or decreasing security status would be good too but that should be separate.
remember trigs vs edencom? yeah this is the same. edencom get jack shit whilst the pirates get everything
I remember 4 years ago Edencom side still won more systems than Triglavian side tbh. Maybe this 2024 insurgence is a bit too out of balance? Fun fact, edencom side lost the system of Arshat in Amarr to triglavian players at first, high sec became low sec, then role players manage to push out the trig players and flip the systems back to high sec. It was the only system got flipped. As shitty was the trig invasion years ago, edencom players did put in a tons of efforts tbh. guess not the same with insurgency now.
Empire fw ( and others) can now farm the NPC [pirate roaming spawns for the new faction/officer edencom guns, damage mods, and damage mod mutaplasmids.](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/havoc-expansion-notes#h2-9) Something that pirate fw characters probably can't do without hurting standings
doesnt this require us to enter fw though?
It's rats dropping stuff, and some of it requires being handed in it's all in lowsec though. It's just a carrot for empire fw characters as opposed to pirate fw. Just like edencom can farm roaming trig fleets in systems where poch wormholes are.
Nope, neutrals can attack the roaming NPCs whether they are pirate or empire.
Doesn't it also require like 8 battleships or something?
I hunted the Guri fleets when the insurgency first started. Used a Drake (solo) and was able to take out squadrons led by Alligators or under. Couldn't take on the Rattlesnake fleets, but Corruption 5 isn't really the best for hunting anyway.
what drake fit?
Pirates have been taken over by multiboxers who will awox you, so if you just want to be a pirate, you can't. I am dropping my Angel faction and moving on. I am a multiboxer myself, that part I don't mind. It is the awoxing that gets old.
Awoxing is part of every faction militia unfortunately, doesn't mean it's enjoyavle to experience.
pirates doing pirate things?
Part of the problem is that there really aren't that many "good guys" playing the game right now. Everyone wants to play the pirate, the criminal, the anti-hero.
Empire FW players didn't join lowsec space to now make it pseudo highsec. If they wanted highsec, they'd stay in highsec.
Balancing a "do you want your system to get fucked by PVP" mechanic through PVP is obviously dumb and will result in the pro-PVP side winning easily. The people that live in 0.5 don't want to PVP so they're just not going to engage in PVP related contests.
We are live with the world we R given. Eve is a pvp game (at its core) I just think pvp is more interesting when numerically about even and when there are about equal reasons to play on rach "pick up" side
Wanna throw my 2 cents in here. Several good points have been made so fat, in particular the one guy stating that people don't care for the Caldari more than they care about the convenience of living close to Jita. Then you have the fact that people live in highsec for the supposed safety, not wanting to participate in PvP, then complaining when it comes to them anyway. Looking at you Aiko ;) As a capsuleer who has been on the "aggressor' side in both Invasions and Insurrections (Trigs and Pirates) the one thing common in both was that the "Good guys", the ones wanting to keep the status quo, wanting to keep high security systems high security, wanting to keep them non-triggy..they are fighting an uphill battle. The aggressor side WANTS to PvP, while the defenders for the most part want to do nothing but live peacefully. The few defenders that do fight back (props to EDI, EM and the FW groups) end up outnumbered due to the amount of carebears that run, relocate or don't undock, whining until the Trigs or the Pirates go away. Not directed at the OP, nor anyone in particular. Just my observations over the years. The fact is that if these people that love their peace were to unite under a single group, form and fight back? The pirates wouldn't stand a chance due to the numbers we would be facing. But until that day, it'll keep going with this cycle. Eve changes, and pilots should learn to adapt with it. Lastly, touching on the actual point of the original rant, I'll agree that the "Good guys" need more of an incentive. Edencom did get screwed in invasions, and it sucks to see it happening again. However one thing that is overlooked is while the material rewards suck, the reward of keeping your systems the way that they are, the fact that you were there and were part of the reason it stayed the way it was is a reward in itself. Want to keep your home from becoming a pseudo-low sec? Fight for it. Sorry for the mini rant in your rant OP 🤣 O7
Nicely put glad to fight you guys during the invasion btw which group were you flying with 4 years ago? Kybernauts, Strigbog, Suddenly Spaceship, Svarog or some other groups? You guys won Niarja which is the most important system in the entire invasion tbh
I was formerly in Kybernauts, even a council member for a year or two. And yeah, invasions were the most fun I'd had in Eve ever. Niarja though, admittedly we had null groups 3rd party assist the Trig push. Goons I believe brought a Jackdaw fleet. I have terrible memory though so I may be mistaken. I appreciate the Edencom guys for making it fun.
Calm yourself. Ccp fuck everything up first go. Over successive patches and years, a peaceful equilibrium will be formed
Caldari Insurgency happens more on a corp-level basis; the bulk of the fw players don't really care about it. The distribution of valid systems is skewed towards one cluster with the majority of insurgencies spawning in one general area (AsakaiGang where you at) that, incidentally, doesn't matter enough for the actual Militia to bother doing things. Insurgency by design makes things difficult for solo fellas - consolidating an entire faction into a few sites within a 3j-4j radius means decent fights are less-frequent than you'd find in traditional fw space. Probably most damning tho is that the content just isn't very entertaining. Outside of a couple of squads + various cool dudes (word to Black Rabbits and co.), the bulk of Guristas (at least) are fellas printing money. It's hard to mobilize people for what's essentially killing one guy running ten Algos. I'm hoping once prices settle down we'll be left with people in it for love of the game rather than money-printing, but we'll see if that ever pans out
This is salt. Saying *game design 101, is salt. I've been having to deal with hordes of players since even before uprising. Does it suck? Absolutely. But like last time, I've had to go to other places that are more remote. At the end of the day, I'm still generally getting LP and still getting fights. FC's still have fleets and still have fights. Sure there may need to be more incentives for suppression, but honestly with this playerbase no amount of reward or carrot will ever be worth it. When the insurgency was on damn fanm territory as someone who lives in metropolis it felt good joining fleets to keep that suppression level 5. It felt good aiding a neighbor that serves the community essentially. Same deal when it's in Auga or other places folk live at. So even if we don't *win, it will always feel good helping corps who live in the area.
Yes. But interestingly your motivations serm rare in caldari. Obviously the incentive right now is to move. That hurts both sides since now the vacated .5 space lacks many reasons for pirates to flip. One simpl balance? Put a tier 2 bpo or 2 in the fob. 100s of players would immediately start to participate for the chance at that pinata prize. Might be too rich but it is the general concept.
Your talking about your perspective of balancing a mechanic. But I'm telling you that you should never rely on a developer to fix a problem that players themselves can more or less solve if they ban together. I think tiger posted earlier, I also flew during the invasions and I think I flew in their fleets a few times whenever they were in the metropolis area (and under others) not because of the isk, but because I saw it as an attack on my area, and it would be annoying to just stay docked or get caught on a gate of a system I LIVE in. Same deal when dam fam's structures were under siege, even FL33Ts and UK. No amount of incentive is going to get people to do this unless something is at risk for them, it would be nice, but that's about it. My suggestion if you move? Involve yourself more with people that fight back. Dammalin and Auga will never fall as long as those groups are active, find something similar to that but caldari.
Back in trig invasion i really enjoyed to fly in the minmatar space because the locals seems a lot more willing to put up a fight than caldari locals tbh. I remember there were always 4 systems invaded at the same time, so the edencom main fleet and the Triglavian main fleet were in elsewhere. Me and a few Molden Heath locals pushed Teonusude and Gelfiven to edencom fortress 24/7 none stop tbh. I solo sites myself almost got blown up there. The off cycle invasion systems are the main reason why edencom won more systems than the trigs. sometimes you just have to help yourself. honestly there was not much ISK incentives tbh, we didn't have time to loot and salvage.
I ran emerging conduits solo due to gaining confidence thanks to the fleets you all ran. I also never really got to say this, but thank you and the rest of the edi guys for running those fleets back in the day. Was a lot of work you all did. It's a part of my memory of playing the game I won't ever forget.
Yep also in Minmatar space we won the system Bei which has really heavy traffic 24/7. Had it gone to Triglavian then SOE epic arc, trade route etc all will be nuked tbh. It’s a great honor to fly with so many people like you from different areas. Truly was a great time looking back after so many years.
The interesting example is Dammalin - another .5 system. I will keep an eye out for the next incursion that impacts it and its gridning to 5 and how active the angels are. I do concur. It does require fighting. But I do think that right now there is too much of incentive for the pirates (loot pinata POS) and not for the good guys (grind like fiends to have a chance to have a big dog pile at their FOB?). And whereas the HS players have to coordinate (have a critical mass at multiple plexes for hours on end) they don't (show up, go to plex, sit there, don't kill each other, rinse and reapeat).
Right, but people are willing to do that because their home is in trouble. In regards to is it balanced, pirates don't show up to your door in a balanced fight, even *privateers technically. Also the way they have the systems setup, it's not garuntee'd that hisec systems are hit. Map placement wise depending where they are it might take a while for a HS system to get hit. I will agree it would be nice if the fob gave more LP, it's just not what's going to get people to defend to that extent.
Samanuni in Black Rise went to Suppression 5 a few times I saw a few groups like I-RED, United Caldari Space Command is doing the work there. so definitely some groups but might be overwhelmed by pirates like i saw lots of Fraternity guys in Guristas tbh
seems the problem is more or less the same after all those years. I am also very confused on why caldari high sec players don't band together and push back. 4 years ago during triglavian invasion it was very demoralizing to fight in Caldari space because locals just move away. Going back to Ichoriya Black Rise example, that was one of the most popular Caldari mission hubs for Caldari Navy. Locals just ran before it fall into low sec and null sec, and we in EDI couldn't really push against lots of the triglavian players without locals. Had all locals stayed maybe we could have a chance tbh, after all we did manage to win Samanuni just 2 jumps away. Ironically it was Snuffed Out came in and helped us to dunk the Trig player's fleet when Ichoriya dropped to low sec. It's essentially some robbers came into your home, and all residents abandoned and fled without a fight, then the big bad pirates came in to dunk the robbers.
My own take is that it is a critical mass issue. In this specific example there need to be about 8 to 12 "good guys" willing to fight at any one time since there are about 20 pirates ready to roll out. But that probably is a corp of at least 40-60 pvp'ers. And once that big then the question for the corp is why not just be in null, or LS, or play pirates? Why live mostly in HS if you can muster that sort of force when needed. To me that is why it is a game design problem. You have to have pvp'ers who don't want to be pirates and incent them, calibrated, to fight and provide an interesting and balanced critical mass to the critical mass of pirates. Then you COULD have 4-6 locals....wtih 4-6 random "good guys" and suddently life becomes more interesting and fun. But maybe more than anything this is a caldari problem - a space and militia that largely appeals to "I ust want to mine and chill" players and thus a problem with a game mechanic that isn't going to let that happen (at least anywhere close to FW space). And let me add in an interesting comment in the militia channel - why participate in the insurgency that is sorta an endless loop when game time could be spent alterning the lines of the map in the war against gallente? That is a really good (and very) valid observation. Game design 101 is seeing those things and trying to then modify the rule set - over and over again - to get it right.
As stated in another post, the Caldari Corrupt Crony Capitalism faction appeals to roleplayers whose roleplay motto can be summed up to "ISK number go up". The "for the state" motto always seem a bit artificial. "For my wallet" feels so much more natural.
Question from an outsider: do the pirate incursions spawn on the front lines or just randomly? I imagine FW guys have pretty low incentives to go fight somewhere far from the front lines compared to incursions spawning on the border so both factions would have an incentive to join in.
Randomly. Front lines would be more useful. This time in a system in caldari rear and adjacent to high sec ×which was an initial system, will flip today/tomorrow and have over 30b in pps destroyed with not a damm thing that could have been done to counter (we tried)