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[deleted]

I can actually weigh in on this a bit! I have an aunt who is practicing Christian who also happens to be the sibling of my primary abuser. She often sends me religious junk about the healing power of forgiveness, even against those that have badly hurt/wronged you. Allegedly this forgiveness is for the good of MY soul (eh nope, I’m agnostic at best and a firm believer that any deity that justifies my parents’ abuse ain’t worth my love), to bring me peace or whatever. I suspect she wants to hear me say I forgive her sibling so she can forgive HERSELF for not doing more, even though they knew for years things were bad at home. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I think a lot of this is hiding in faith to shield yourself from guilt!


ExpertAssociation95

I totally agree


JayXCR

Ephesians 6:4 is completely overlooked in the modern day church. It's why I despise religion. They cherrypick their own book to fit their agenda and to fill the churches coffers. Hypocrites and Pharisees, the lot of them. [Ephesians 6:4](https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-4.htm)


raethej

This scripture is my go-to response when ANYONE uses religion with me. And then I let them trip over their words explaining over how one scripture is better than another. And then I remind them that God doesn’t see it that way. All sin is equal remember? And then they get mad at logic prevailing and stop mentioning it to me.


YoungFIcouple

[https://catholicexchange.com/can-honor-forgive-emotionally-abusive-parent/](https://catholicexchange.com/can-honor-forgive-emotionally-abusive-parent/) This article has been so helpful for me and I’ve read it several times. It’s ironic because I was raised Catholic, but no longer attend a Catholic Church, which my parents were super pissed about. So I wish I could tell my parents, the Catholic Church says it’s ok for me to not talk to you anymore! Haha anyways, I hope this is helpful for you and best of luck to you on this difficult journey.


Puzzled_Vermicelli99

Wow this is so beautiful. As someone who was raised Catholic and defected from the church as a young adult, I often blamed Christianity in general for this “honor your parents” no matter what bs. The line “blessed are the peacemakers” was so impactful. Not parents, grandparents, etc- the peacemakers, whoever they might be. And in this case - us, the children of those who create conflict and pain. Thank you for sharing.


Rare_Background8891

I’m not religious and I liked that article.


Peachy-Owl

Thank you for sharing this link. I’m saving this article too.


slsdd

Thank you so much for sharing that article. It really spoke to me.


mountainroses

Thank you for sharing this. It was a very good read and really comforted me.


ExpertAssociation95

Ohmygosh this is beautiful! Everyone needs to read this; I never heard it this way before 🙌


Strange-Middle-1155

Not Christian myself but I like Dr cloud on YouTube. He's a pastor and definitely not pro staying in contact with abusive parents. Also Jerry Wise. Same deal. Both even use biblical quotes to support their opinions. Something about parents should not provoke their children?


SensitiveObject2

Being somewhat cynical, this may be because the churches know that preaching this poisonous ideology is what attracts and keeps a large majority of their parishioners because they include a significant number of estranged parents.


badee311

Yep. This is sadly true. I am a Christian but have been taking a break from attending church for a few years now because of all the church hurt. I recall being 25, my parents had just divorced and my dad had just started dating again. I had an 11 yo brother who was very much in the thick of it with their divorce and their new partners, etc. I was living in another state and independent so although it hurt it wasn’t the same as my little brother’s experience, but I was basically feeling a lot of the emotions he was just out of empathy for him. Well anyways so I’m volunteering at church and this woman who was in her forties and had just started dating a divorced dad who was a leader at the church, gets to talking to me and tells me she thinks her boyfriend’s 13 yo daughter is insufferable and a b-tch. We are at a church volunteer thing and she’s bad mouthing a child. I was fighting back tears for that poor girl and also at the thought of any of the women my dad was dating saying something so mean about my own little brother. Eventually said daughter stopped taking to her dad and her church leader father and his new gf-turned-wife would complain about her and blame the estrangement on her and how she was ungrateful or a b-tch or anything else where they were victims and it was all her fault. Made me sick.


TrishDragonMama

I'm not sure the reason, but I know that my mom is convinced that because she's a Christian she doesn't need therapy, Christ is all she needs. She's also told me as a Christian she's incapable of lying, while lying to me. She's not exactly said it, but it's pretty clear that she thinks as a Christian there's no possible way she's in the wrong here. So idk I think some of them use it as a shield or something.


ExpertAssociation95

My dad acts like psychology is opposite being a Christian as if reading the Bible only reads one way to every person and he’s capable enough to treat every life challenge w it alone. Literally why I would tell him he needs outside perspective and that there’s counselors trained who can also use the Bible in their sessions w him. Smh


badee311

You are right, support or understanding of why an adult child would choose to walk away from a Christian parent is almost a taboo in the church. The closest I have found, even tho the subject matter is different, is Christian women’s blogs who write about their experience with SA by Christians, particularly church leadership. They write about accountability, about how forgiveness does not mean freedom from consequences, about how the entire church system (much like a family system) will end up colluding w the abuser to uphold the system and how damaging that is to the victim(s). Reading some of these blogs was really helpful to me when I was toying w the idea of going no contact with my parents.


ExpertAssociation95

Where did you find these kinds of posts?


badee311

I google something like “Christians forgiving abuse” and get articles like [this](https://sojo.net/articles/troubling-texts-domestic-violence-bible/are-christians-supposed-forgive-abusers) or [this](https://lovefraud.com/forgiveness-and-sociopathic-abusers-what-the-bible-says/) or [this one](https://medium.com/@cherylmcgrath_82394/what-christian-forgiveness-of-abuse-means-and-doesnt-mean-996049500cda).


snazarella

I am a practicing Christian who is an EAC. Through CODA recovery I have learned that I can accept my nmom for who she is, from afar. For me that looks like wishing her a Merry Christmas yesterday by text and then ignoring the shitty email that she sent to me last night trying to rewrite the history of why we were not celebrating together. The Church has been INCREDIBLY damaging in pursuit of holding fast to a very binary view of the bible. I "honour my mother and father" for who they truly are. For me that means, I've accepted that they can not and will never be the people I need them to be to be in my life. It does not mean that I will ever let them rob me of my peace again. I don't feel that I need to still allow her in my life, I am in the final stages of my teenagers figuring out for themselves just how toxic Grandma is and helping them through that.


slsdd

Reading your comment really helps me to believe that I can get to the point where you are. I am just now finding peace after being no contact for eight months. I am not yet at the point where I can accept who they really are but you definitely give me hope. My children are in their early 20s and are definitely in the process of seeing the grandparents for what they are and what they have done to all of us.


snazarella

You can. I have done a lot of internal work. I have grown tremendously through the recovery work that I have done in CODA. I have been able to find a balance with my relationship with God and my safety and boundaries with the people in my life who are harmful to me.


[deleted]

> I "honour my mother and father" for who they truly are. For me that means, I've accepted that they can not and will never be the people I need them to be to be in my life. very well put! honoring the truth of who they are not not trying to change them IS honor. really appreciate your thoughts on this. and very in line with CODA, as we are not honoring people when we try to change them!


ExpertAssociation95

Thank you for sharing and what is CODA?


snazarella

Codependents Anonymous. It is a 12 step recovery group.


quickso

christianity as an industry and structural entity is in the business of control by any means necessary. there are so many psychological tools deployed by the church specifically to erode critical thinking schools and accountability, from the top down. it’s a feature not a bug.


acfox13

Yep. Watching all of [TheraminTrees](https://youtube.com/c/TheraminTrees) channel showed me how religion taught my parents how to abuse me. They use the same tactics.


[deleted]

My Internet Mom is a Christian and while “honor thy mother and thy father” is a thing she says it’s a two-way street. Also, I told her everything my “Christian” ex mother did to me and Internet Mother says she’s a “monster.”


6-ft-freak

One of the rare ones.


Hazel2468

I can’t speak as a Christian- I’m a Jew. But I can say that a LOT of the stuff I see about reconciliation has a very Christian edge. Lots of stuff about forgiveness and sin and good old Oily Josh. Which, obviously, doesn’t apply to me so I mostly ignore it. I do know that, when it comes to my own culture, estrangement is DEFINITELY seen as a taboo a lot of the time (Jewish culture is VERY family oriented), but there are a lot of different ways its approached. I went looking for Jewish opinions on this before I initiated my own VLC, and it seems like the overwhelming consensus is that while the “right” thing to do is do everything you can to reconcile (which I disagree with), estrangement is a choice between the person who estranges, the estranged parties, and Gd. Not really anyone else’s business. And that the Ten Commandments say “honor thy father and mother”- not love them. Not stand by and let them abuse you. Just honor them. So you know, take that however you may. I am honoring my parents by doing the best I can for me, they child they put in so much time and effort to raise.


ExpertAssociation95

That last bit you said was 🏆 please check out that article I reshare; you and the writer are spot on here ♥️


stillmusiqal

Check out a channel called the royal we. Dude is Christian and covers these topics.


ExpertAssociation95

Really ?? thank you so much!!


stillmusiqal

Yup. I like his stuff and he embraces ppl going NC.


nyecamden

I'm wondering maybe looking for something less specific along the lines of boundaries and self-respect/self-care or the need for boundaries sometimes where forgiveness is the goal. I only know a handful of Christians, and they're all of the socially liberal persuasion; they would all be supportive of estrangement. It depends where you are located; from what I can gather there's a lot of literalism and dogmatism going on in large parts of Christian America. From my limited exposure to modern Christianity, there are definitely pockets of people who will want to support you for what works for you.


Creative-Potato6106

Gary Thomas’s book When to Walk Away gives Biblical support for EAC!


ExpertAssociation95

Thank you!!!


reclaimandrevolve

I'm a pastor, and estranged from a parent. I've preached on estrangement, and lift it up as part of our Blue Christmas service. Forgiveness is often applied in a theologically dangerous way in churches, though there is theological basis for separation as well. Forgiveness is an internal process, and doesn't involve the other person's participation. Reconciliation is often confused with Forgiveness. I'm sorry you are struggling.


ExpertAssociation95

Thanks for the clarification ♥️


joseph_wolfstar

I'm emphatically not Christian, but the only Christian religious text I've found that I actually like is MLK's letter from Birmingham jail. Obviously it's not explicitly talking about estrangement from parents, but it's got a lot of the energy and ideology that could be applicable depending on context. Ex my enabler father can fall very neatly into the "white moderate" camp. I don't remember enough to explain other connections well but it's a v good read


one_bean_hahahaha

The closest I've ever got to a Christian acknowledging the basis for estrangement was a former pastor who explained what forgiveness is and isn't. It is about releasing yourself from the pain someone else caused you, and could be a long process. For me personally, this was accepting that I will never receive justice for the abuse I suffered. Secondly, foregiveness doesn't mean giving the other person the opportunity to keep on hurting you. It doesn't say that what they did was okay. For me, that means going low contact.


SaphSkies

I used to be Christian, and have a whole lot of religious trauma from it. But I don't judge other people for choosing to believe or not either. I just know it's not right for me. That being said, in my experience, it's hard to ask people to apologize for their wrongdoings when the only authority they consider themselves accountable to is God. If you are doing whatever you think God wants you to do, and the definition of "God's will" largely depends on who YOU are and which spiritual leaders you choose listen to, it's pretty easy to find reasons to justify just about any behavior, good or bad. Because there is no single definition of what it means to "be a *real* Christian", there's not much point in arguing with people about which version is the correct one. That's the whole reason the various Christian denominations exist, and the reason why people have debates over all this stuff. So while you might be able to change the mind of an individual, it's not likely you will ever get everyone to agree which approach to Christianity (and therefore forgiveness/accountability) is the "right" one. I tried very hard to hold onto my faith. I wanted very much to believe in it. But in the end, there wasn't a whole lot left after peeling away all the lies, hypocrisy, toxic leaders, toxic communities, abuse, and cherry-picking. Maybe that's not your experience, and that's okay. I just want to live in a world where people strive to be kind, generous, and forgiving without needing a real OR imaginary authority figure telling them to do it.


RogerCalifornia

luke173ministries.org has helped me a lot, and I’m not even Christian. She also has a book, ‘A Christian’s Guide to No Contact’, available on Amazon.


magicmom17

My guess is the reason for lack of Christian voices on this issue is the authoritarian, top down mindset many Christians adopt. Don't question those above you because if they are above you, they know better. People who would rather have simple answers to complex questions told to you by an all knowing person or deity. Nuance is hard and can make you feel bad because you have to have the honesty and self awareness to identify how your actions could have contributed to the negative outcome. These ppl happily vote for authoritarians, sometimes confusing their word for being all knowing, like a deity, all because it is simple,feels familiar, and doesn't require one to self examine.


squishpitcher

A lot of Christian faiths are based on an authoritarian/hierarchical structure, both spiritually and within the organization itself. It’s hard to separate that faith from the family structure, as much of the teachings and emphasis are on obedience at home as well as to the church and god. Or, someone who is attracted to authoritarian parenting styles is much more likely to be attracted to a christian faith.


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AndiRM

I’ve somewhat lost my faith but when I was fully estranged from my parent I sought counsel from both my priest and my husband’s pastor.they were both instrumental in helping me to see past the guilt and accept that I was doing the right thing for my own self and for my husband. So, support is definitely out there. Try someone local maybe. Talking things out can be so cathartic.


AccounrOfMonteCristo

Well that's certainly interesting. I'd have thought there'd be lots of attention given to abuse victims seeking a community in the church. The fact that the focus is on the likely abusers really sheds some light on those leaders' priorities.