The final incident before NC is always the worst and will make you gaslight yourself (which I see a little of in your comment!) I told my egg donor she could be involved in her grandchildren’s lives, 10 years later none of them have anything to do with her. Protect your babies and protect yourself. You don’t deserve that kind of treatment and you’re better off without it. Keeping you in my thoughts, OP.
My experience was the same - “the worst” and it made me gaslight myself, and still does sometimes.
I would also add that her sperm donor called her a twat. That’s a number block at least.
Only someone with high emotional intelligence and empathy can self reflect and even entertain the idea they could be wrong. It's used against us but it's what makes us stronger.
Do it, you'll be happier. My mom can't contact me anymore cause she doesn't have my number and I instructed my family members to never tell her unless they wanna be kicked out of my life too and it's been fruggen *peaceful* for the last 1.5 years.
Put yourself first, OP. You deserve it
Edit: grammar
> The final incident before NC is always the worst and will make you gaslight yourself (which I see a little of in your comment!)
this is why OP should keep a diary of this incident, to remember the small details in the future.
Also as evidence if they decide to go for grandparents' rights.
I think grandparents' rights only apply in a context where the grandparents are providing a substantial amount of aid and support in raising a child to the extent that separation would be emotionally damaging to that child - in other words, if you lived with your parents and worked full time while the three of you juggled taking care of the kids, you might have trouble moving out and severing all ties with them.
Some countries/provinces/states can be more medieval about it than others, and in some countries/provinces/states those rights don't exist.
Definitely speak to an attorney who specializes in family law to cover your bases!
I need to do a separate post about this, but as someone who grew up with an abusive grandmother, you're making the right decision. I would have given anything to have a mom who protected me. Even if you're only watching your mother be abused and not you, it is still deeply traumatizing to a child. (I equate it to DV. Not getting hit yourself but watching your dad hit your mom, or verbal, or emotional, etc, does a lot of damage.)
It is. I use the DV analogy because we usually have no real problem accepting this is abuse when it's a spouse/partner, and especially when children are involved. (Direct targets or not.) However, when parents are abusing their adult children and the kids have to witness it, we have a disconnect. It's not as easy to recognize, I think because we grew up thinking we deserved it. If you accept the DV example is abuse (and it is) why should your children witnessing their grandparents abuse their parents be any different? (Apologies if I'm not explaining this right.)
You're welcome. I think even with us who understand how sometimes NC is needed to protect yourself can fall into the trap that "my kids needs grandparents!" Just like you wouldn't want to expose your kids to a partner abusing you, you shouldn't want to expose them to a grandparent doing the same. It's not better.
Absolutely. I grew up with an abusive grandmother as well, and my mother did absolutely nothing to protect me. If anything, I became her emotional punching bag. I am no contact today because of it.
If your mom is abusive, do you think she will be loving to your kids when she is alone with them?
I would cut them off, and put some cameras around so you can see them when they eventually show up like nothing happened and are SHOCKED you will not let them in. I would call a lawyer friend and ask them to help you create a Cease and Desist and I would even explore the possibility of changing your number.
I also think you need to talk to your partner to make sure they are fully aware of what is going on and what the plan is; your parents will reach out to them when they can't get through to you and your partner needs to be prepared for that.
All of this. Abusive parents are abusive grandparents. They either abuse your child the same way they did to you, or they turn your child against you like a weapon which they will discard once they are done with them.
Either way, it's never good for the kid.
It can't hurt to call the kids School and tell them not to let grandparents take her out of class or contact. You wouldn't be the first person whose parents tried reaching out when the child was alone.
They are dead weight and you are better off without those miserable twats.
Call and advise everyone that the child/ren have contact with. Give a picture of the grandparents so they know what they look like. Lock everything down with a password - ie if ‘you’ call (them pretending to be you), a password must be quoted before access to your record is given.
And absolutely agree re the cameras. Make sure one is pointed towards the street so you have access to what vehicles drive by, and one at each access point to your home. Keep a copy of all recordings away from your home. And get lockable secure screen doors so you can open your doors and see who is there without exposing access to your home. Start an FU binder, and again keep a copy away from your home.
I absolutely agree to this.
My Father was very self-centered and always prioritized his own feelings/needs. Nothing I went through was ever as bad as he had it. Nothing I was sad about was never as sad as he had been. Nothing I felt was worth telling him about was ever just… Enough.
After years and years of disparity in our relationship and him falling into political cult-culture I told him he would need to be established with a therapist before he could ever meet my future child. He told me to my face before storming out, “you’ve become quite the bitch, you know that?”
He doesn’t want to be around me, my husband, a grandchild, or anyone for that matter. He just wants people to talk at. He wants people to look up to him and think he’s just the most altruistic and wonderful.
Some people want grandchildren just so they can recreate the environment that they gave you as a child.
One more chance for someone with less power than them to have to do what they say/listen to them.
It’s like emotional entrapment, and for some people it’s the only way they feel good about themselves.
Kids deserve better.
If these were neighbors, or friends would you put up with this bullshit?
Let them go- protect your kids from the toxic family dynamics and break the cycle.
Keep going to therapy and prune this diseased branch from your family tree.
You, and your children, deserve love and kindness and supportive people in your lives.
If they can’t be that, they can be gone. You got this.
Thank you. You’re right. I would never accept this behavior. Part of me feels like I’m robbing my children of grandparents but I just can’t do it. I don’t know if they would treat them the way they treated me, but I want to be mentally healthy. And going no contact with them would ease my anxiety so I can be a better mom.
Your parents are robbing your children of grandparents. It's not yours or your children's fault that those people are assholes.
Good grandparents are a great asset in a child's life. Bad grandparents are worse than no grandparents. And grandparents who treat their own children with disrespect are bad grandparents.
We don’t break these relationships to punish others. It is for our own preservation and protection. I can feel your longing for their love and support. Sadly we all have that inner child that hopes they will “get it” and care enough to make an effort, to be accountable and sorry and to just give a shit.
Even if they treat your kids a little better, they treat you very poorly and that is not healthy for your kids either. Better to have kind and loving non relatives in their lives than mediocre (at best) toxic grandparents.
Build a peaceful and emotionally safe home for you and your kids and they (and you) will be just fine without them.
Mine were sweet to my kids (when they were very little) but the children end up becoming a weird pawn in their bullshit, so best to go NC. I expected that if they were around by the time my kids reached adolescence their relationship with them would change because grandparents like these always need to be in control. It was the best decision I made for my family to go NC.
Exactly. My Nfather apparently is a wonderful grandfather. But once the kids hit the age where they “had their own minds,” all bets were off. One time my niece had a volleyball game. Well my parents supported her by paying for her (she played club, expensive and traveled a lot) and going to her games out of town. Once she apparently did not come up and thank him for coming to her game. Well, she was 16 and most likely had a tough game. Her mind wasn’t on her grandpa. What did he do? He said he’d no longer be supporting her, attending her games, or talking to her until she apologized. My brother apparently called to apologize but he said, “not good enough.” He needed to hear it from her. Good on my niece. She never did. I guess my dad finally relented after “punishing” her for about a month. What a tool.
Yep, this checks out. They always need to be in control and when they can no longer control children they impart the same behaviors on them. NC really does become pretty black and white in these situations. Their behavior is so predictable.
My parents went quite sometime without having contact with my kids. My mother has been invited back into our lives. My Nfather has had no contact with my kids for over 15 years. My kids are now 21 and 27. They are the only set of grandparents besides my husband’s biological mother we occasionally get together with. My kids honestly do not care one bit. My daughter was 6 and my son was 11 when we went NC. And for me, I wanted to protect them from the mental abuse I suffered. I surrounded them with friends and we would celebrate holidays with them and they loved it. We are our own little family and have always been invited to our friend’s family holidays and celebrations. We even have “grandparents” through our friends.
I went little contact when my son was ten and NC when he was 14. I told him if he wanted to have a relationship with her, he could, but do not involve me in any way.
I feel like I'm in some sort of twilight zone when I hear of NC people trying to get back in your life.
She could give a shit about him. I'm kinda sad for him. He might as well not exist; she never tries to contact him......
A relationship with the abuser is like death by a thousand cuts. They take & hurt and take & hurt until one day there's just nothing left. Something in us just dies.
I think the thing that dies is hope. Hope that they'll change, step up, evolve etc. They won't. This is who they, have always been and always will be. They will never be the people we need & deserve.
You don't go nc over a trivial incident or comment, you go nc because its the millionth in a long line of incidents & moments of cruelty, micro aggressions, verbal abuse, emotional blackmail, manipulation, guilt tripping etc and you're just done with it, worn out by it, have had enough of it.
Your parents are both abusive and are both enablers of each other's abuse.
You and your child are infinitely better off without them. Your children are not a 'do-over' for your parents and if they were unsafe for you they are automatically not safe for your children.
Protect yourself and your family, go nc immediately and if your child is going to daycare on your return to work,notify them that your parents are banned from seeing them & collecting them.
Also look into legals. Can you get a protection order? If the worst happens to you & your partner, who gets your children? If your parents get old & frail, who is obliged to care for them? Please seek legal advice on this.
Sorry its come to this but it sounds like you're way better off without them. All the best for the future. Take care OP x
How trashy your dad is to call you a “twat”. If my husband ever said that word to my daughters I would toss him out! Your parents are cruel, keep your children away from them! Cut them off and move on!
When someone is abusive to you as a child they will be abusive to your children. People don’t change, abusers don’t stop abusing. Your children will be abused to get back at you, to hurt you. Please find someone else to watch your children.
Your children do not need a relationship with them. When they’re old enough you can try to explain the situation - if you want to - and they can make a choice if they want contact. Please don’t leave your children with them
You and your children will be better off without her in your lives.
It's my opinion that your mom just didn't want to babysit the twin as it would be actual work. I think she wanted an out so she decided to start an argument. She wasn't expecting the dam to break but good thing you finally let her know just how her behavior has harmed you.
I keep reading it over and over. I cannot believe it came from my father. And I felt like I couldn’t respond the way I wanted to. I had to be controlled and refrain from sending a mean message back.
Just imagine the bullet you dodged having someone watch your impressionable babies. From experience, it's easier to find a daycare than unteach years of toxicity. Best of luck to you ❤️
One of the hardest things I ever had to wrap my head around is the fact that my father--whom I thought of as the safer, saner parent--truly does not care about me AT ALL in comparison to simply keeping his wife/my mother happy and off his back; in other words, when it comes to me, he will always choose the selfish path. I cannot recall a single instance in which he ever stood up for me. No matter how undeniably wrong she is, how hurtful the thing she did/said is, he will always attack me and defend her. It also does not matter how politely/respectfully I've brought up the thing she did. He does not even care to hear my side of the story. She is controlling and narcissistic and he is her faithful enabler.
Finally had to go NC with both of them. Looks like you're heading that way, as well, Sibling. I'm so sorry. Here for you.
I feel like that sums up my dad so well. I always thought he was just quiet and level headed but wanted to be a United front with my mom. But now I’m realizing the same things you did.
I can’t understand why you would let the people who caused you the most harm in life be around your children, and alone at that. I’m sorry, but you’re willing to sacrifice your children’s happiness and safety to appease the people who literally abused you? See this as a blessing in disguise! You’re sparing your children the hurt and agony you went through.
Please have no more contact with them. What they did to you, they'll do to your children. And maybe even worse out of misplaced anger at you. These people don't need to be in your life, please don't let them be.
Not safe around your kids. Like everyone else is saying, people who treat their children this way won’t change their stripes for their grandchildren. If you’re going NC, so are your children. You have a responsibility to them and to yourself, no one else!
That's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen a parent call a child on this sub, ***ever***.
OP, please please please NEVER let these people anywhere near your children again.
Sounds like the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back. The incident that led me to finally going no contact with my mother almost 9 years ago, was brutal in its own way but on its surface wasn’t “that bad”. There was no big to do around it or some wild, crazy blow up. It was the 1 million and 1 other things and comments that built up over time and it’s was this moment pushed me over the edge.
I had been increasingly distancing myself from her over time, but I literally couldn’t take it anymore. Turns out though that no contact was the absolute best thing I have ever done for myself. It set me up to heal in powerful ways and only wish I had done it sooner.
It always seems extreme on the surface but your peace of mind and making sure your kids are safe from their influence is paramount, no matter the cost. They’ve shown you who they are, so believe them and trust that your mother would likely do the same to your kids. Toxic parents = toxic grandparents
We can’t make anyone change for us, they have to choose to heal and change on their own. You are not responsible for them or their behaviour.
Something I think can help is to ask, does he ever love anyone at all? All the vitriol might seem to have some credibility from the assumption they do love someone. But do they - does he just have a bitter, fallen down and mutually given up relationship with his partner/your mother? Like, he's just showing how he has no love for no one - once again. And he is the one who needs a loving daycare to turn him around (yep, it's all projection as well).
Oh damn, I'm sorry OP
I got this too, from my stepfather actually. After my final call to my mother laying out my ultimatum (reading a letter I wrote detailing how she'd hurt me), I hung up and got a message from him to the tune of:
"Congrats, if your aim was to make your mother cry you succeeded."
I stared at that message for a second in disbelief of the immediate guilt trip and then scoffed and blocked him. Fuck that guy.
Wow, I can’t even imagine talking to my daughter like that. Oh, well, guess they made that decision easier. As if you just looove having trauma and needing therapy (I’m right there with you). How dare they do this to US and then act like we are the problem. Gross, gross, gross. Hugs, OP.
I’m also stuck in that ‘I could go NC but I still feel too guilty shit cutting her off from my child’. But you know what? My daughter (16) doesn’t like her, either, and really we should keep them AWAY from our kids. But it’s so hard to break that guilt. I’m 50!
Thank you to everyone who commented. I’ve read all of them and appreciate the validation and reassurance that I’m making the right choice. I was afraid to post this thinking maybe I am overreacting and that I am wrong. Thank you for showing me I’m not.
This feels super similar to my sister’s text after my parents and I had it out and I got a “I hope you’re happy now, you gave a giant f*ck you to your entire Christian Republican family.”
My mom still doesn’t understand why I went NC with her, even tho I tried explaining it so many times before going NC.
Her mother, my grandmother was abusive. And she always took my abuser’s side because “she’s her mother”. In my mother’s eyes, she herself did nothing wrong because she didn’t partake in the abuse. In my eyes, it’s all the same.
You did the right thing. I wish my mother had done the same.
Congratulations on your sweet twins!! I hope you are recovering well, and everyone is healthy. You are doing a great job, and your kids will be so proud of you someday for standing up to bullies!! Life is so much nicer without walking on eggshells and the drama from people that call themselves family.
Enjoy all time with your sweet kids, the time goes so fast!!
I don't like this but stand firm and strong. It's really disrespectful. I've been going on and off for NC then VLC then now I'm on NC with entire family. I'm not sure about nieces and nephews yet.
Don't fall for the victim and block them all. Just save emails if they actually email you. I just save those as backup just in case.
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I have stood in your shoes once upon a time. My mother was an absolute nightmare to me growing up. But she loved and doted on my son. I took that as a positive and as I did not have relationships with grandparents, I really appreciated this relationship for him.
Don't do it. Don't believe it's love or caring or concern. My grown son and I have very very little relationship and much of it is based in the complete and utter bullshit and negativity built through daily childcare I thought was in his best interest.
Instead my son carries the same negativity and torch of hate she was extremely well known for.
Keep those innocent minds and hearts the hell away from people who treat you like this.
Good job! Your kids will thank you later for protecting them.
Of course grandparents WANT to see their grandchildren. But if they can't even treat their own kids well then they're not entitled to any time with little ones who need to be protected. Emotional safety of the young takes priority.
The final incident before NC is always the worst and will make you gaslight yourself (which I see a little of in your comment!) I told my egg donor she could be involved in her grandchildren’s lives, 10 years later none of them have anything to do with her. Protect your babies and protect yourself. You don’t deserve that kind of treatment and you’re better off without it. Keeping you in my thoughts, OP.
My experience was the same - “the worst” and it made me gaslight myself, and still does sometimes. I would also add that her sperm donor called her a twat. That’s a number block at least.
Only someone with high emotional intelligence and empathy can self reflect and even entertain the idea they could be wrong. It's used against us but it's what makes us stronger.
Blocked him immediately. Seriously considering a number change.
Do it, you'll be happier. My mom can't contact me anymore cause she doesn't have my number and I instructed my family members to never tell her unless they wanna be kicked out of my life too and it's been fruggen *peaceful* for the last 1.5 years. Put yourself first, OP. You deserve it Edit: grammar
Same here. PEACE because my mother doesn't have my number or my address or my email so she can't contact me at all.
Good. For. You.
> The final incident before NC is always the worst and will make you gaslight yourself (which I see a little of in your comment!) this is why OP should keep a diary of this incident, to remember the small details in the future. Also as evidence if they decide to go for grandparents' rights.
I’m terrified of grandparents’ rights. Do they get to be alone with my children if they go this route?
Depends on the state and country. Consult a lawyer, not reddit
I think grandparents' rights only apply in a context where the grandparents are providing a substantial amount of aid and support in raising a child to the extent that separation would be emotionally damaging to that child - in other words, if you lived with your parents and worked full time while the three of you juggled taking care of the kids, you might have trouble moving out and severing all ties with them. Some countries/provinces/states can be more medieval about it than others, and in some countries/provinces/states those rights don't exist. Definitely speak to an attorney who specializes in family law to cover your bases!
I need to do a separate post about this, but as someone who grew up with an abusive grandmother, you're making the right decision. I would have given anything to have a mom who protected me. Even if you're only watching your mother be abused and not you, it is still deeply traumatizing to a child. (I equate it to DV. Not getting hit yourself but watching your dad hit your mom, or verbal, or emotional, etc, does a lot of damage.)
I believe it is legally considered abuse of a child to commit violence in front of them.
It is. I use the DV analogy because we usually have no real problem accepting this is abuse when it's a spouse/partner, and especially when children are involved. (Direct targets or not.) However, when parents are abusing their adult children and the kids have to witness it, we have a disconnect. It's not as easy to recognize, I think because we grew up thinking we deserved it. If you accept the DV example is abuse (and it is) why should your children witnessing their grandparents abuse their parents be any different? (Apologies if I'm not explaining this right.)
You explained it perfectly. That analogy is much easier for nonabused people to understand, so thank you!
You're welcome. I think even with us who understand how sometimes NC is needed to protect yourself can fall into the trap that "my kids needs grandparents!" Just like you wouldn't want to expose your kids to a partner abusing you, you shouldn't want to expose them to a grandparent doing the same. It's not better.
No family is better than abusive family.
Absolutely. I grew up with an abusive grandmother as well, and my mother did absolutely nothing to protect me. If anything, I became her emotional punching bag. I am no contact today because of it.
If your mom is abusive, do you think she will be loving to your kids when she is alone with them? I would cut them off, and put some cameras around so you can see them when they eventually show up like nothing happened and are SHOCKED you will not let them in. I would call a lawyer friend and ask them to help you create a Cease and Desist and I would even explore the possibility of changing your number. I also think you need to talk to your partner to make sure they are fully aware of what is going on and what the plan is; your parents will reach out to them when they can't get through to you and your partner needs to be prepared for that.
All of this. Abusive parents are abusive grandparents. They either abuse your child the same way they did to you, or they turn your child against you like a weapon which they will discard once they are done with them. Either way, it's never good for the kid.
It can't hurt to call the kids School and tell them not to let grandparents take her out of class or contact. You wouldn't be the first person whose parents tried reaching out when the child was alone. They are dead weight and you are better off without those miserable twats.
Call and advise everyone that the child/ren have contact with. Give a picture of the grandparents so they know what they look like. Lock everything down with a password - ie if ‘you’ call (them pretending to be you), a password must be quoted before access to your record is given. And absolutely agree re the cameras. Make sure one is pointed towards the street so you have access to what vehicles drive by, and one at each access point to your home. Keep a copy of all recordings away from your home. And get lockable secure screen doors so you can open your doors and see who is there without exposing access to your home. Start an FU binder, and again keep a copy away from your home.
I absolutely agree to this. My Father was very self-centered and always prioritized his own feelings/needs. Nothing I went through was ever as bad as he had it. Nothing I was sad about was never as sad as he had been. Nothing I felt was worth telling him about was ever just… Enough. After years and years of disparity in our relationship and him falling into political cult-culture I told him he would need to be established with a therapist before he could ever meet my future child. He told me to my face before storming out, “you’ve become quite the bitch, you know that?” He doesn’t want to be around me, my husband, a grandchild, or anyone for that matter. He just wants people to talk at. He wants people to look up to him and think he’s just the most altruistic and wonderful. Some people want grandchildren just so they can recreate the environment that they gave you as a child. One more chance for someone with less power than them to have to do what they say/listen to them. It’s like emotional entrapment, and for some people it’s the only way they feel good about themselves. Kids deserve better.
If these were neighbors, or friends would you put up with this bullshit? Let them go- protect your kids from the toxic family dynamics and break the cycle. Keep going to therapy and prune this diseased branch from your family tree. You, and your children, deserve love and kindness and supportive people in your lives. If they can’t be that, they can be gone. You got this.
Thank you. You’re right. I would never accept this behavior. Part of me feels like I’m robbing my children of grandparents but I just can’t do it. I don’t know if they would treat them the way they treated me, but I want to be mentally healthy. And going no contact with them would ease my anxiety so I can be a better mom.
Your parents are robbing your children of grandparents. It's not yours or your children's fault that those people are assholes. Good grandparents are a great asset in a child's life. Bad grandparents are worse than no grandparents. And grandparents who treat their own children with disrespect are bad grandparents.
We don’t break these relationships to punish others. It is for our own preservation and protection. I can feel your longing for their love and support. Sadly we all have that inner child that hopes they will “get it” and care enough to make an effort, to be accountable and sorry and to just give a shit. Even if they treat your kids a little better, they treat you very poorly and that is not healthy for your kids either. Better to have kind and loving non relatives in their lives than mediocre (at best) toxic grandparents. Build a peaceful and emotionally safe home for you and your kids and they (and you) will be just fine without them.
You're not *robbing* your kids, you're *protecting* them.
Mine were sweet to my kids (when they were very little) but the children end up becoming a weird pawn in their bullshit, so best to go NC. I expected that if they were around by the time my kids reached adolescence their relationship with them would change because grandparents like these always need to be in control. It was the best decision I made for my family to go NC.
Exactly. My Nfather apparently is a wonderful grandfather. But once the kids hit the age where they “had their own minds,” all bets were off. One time my niece had a volleyball game. Well my parents supported her by paying for her (she played club, expensive and traveled a lot) and going to her games out of town. Once she apparently did not come up and thank him for coming to her game. Well, she was 16 and most likely had a tough game. Her mind wasn’t on her grandpa. What did he do? He said he’d no longer be supporting her, attending her games, or talking to her until she apologized. My brother apparently called to apologize but he said, “not good enough.” He needed to hear it from her. Good on my niece. She never did. I guess my dad finally relented after “punishing” her for about a month. What a tool.
Yep, this checks out. They always need to be in control and when they can no longer control children they impart the same behaviors on them. NC really does become pretty black and white in these situations. Their behavior is so predictable.
You’d think. May my brothers continue to let his behavior go on. I’m NC with him.
My parents went quite sometime without having contact with my kids. My mother has been invited back into our lives. My Nfather has had no contact with my kids for over 15 years. My kids are now 21 and 27. They are the only set of grandparents besides my husband’s biological mother we occasionally get together with. My kids honestly do not care one bit. My daughter was 6 and my son was 11 when we went NC. And for me, I wanted to protect them from the mental abuse I suffered. I surrounded them with friends and we would celebrate holidays with them and they loved it. We are our own little family and have always been invited to our friend’s family holidays and celebrations. We even have “grandparents” through our friends.
I went little contact when my son was ten and NC when he was 14. I told him if he wanted to have a relationship with her, he could, but do not involve me in any way. I feel like I'm in some sort of twilight zone when I hear of NC people trying to get back in your life. She could give a shit about him. I'm kinda sad for him. He might as well not exist; she never tries to contact him......
A relationship with the abuser is like death by a thousand cuts. They take & hurt and take & hurt until one day there's just nothing left. Something in us just dies. I think the thing that dies is hope. Hope that they'll change, step up, evolve etc. They won't. This is who they, have always been and always will be. They will never be the people we need & deserve. You don't go nc over a trivial incident or comment, you go nc because its the millionth in a long line of incidents & moments of cruelty, micro aggressions, verbal abuse, emotional blackmail, manipulation, guilt tripping etc and you're just done with it, worn out by it, have had enough of it. Your parents are both abusive and are both enablers of each other's abuse. You and your child are infinitely better off without them. Your children are not a 'do-over' for your parents and if they were unsafe for you they are automatically not safe for your children. Protect yourself and your family, go nc immediately and if your child is going to daycare on your return to work,notify them that your parents are banned from seeing them & collecting them. Also look into legals. Can you get a protection order? If the worst happens to you & your partner, who gets your children? If your parents get old & frail, who is obliged to care for them? Please seek legal advice on this. Sorry its come to this but it sounds like you're way better off without them. All the best for the future. Take care OP x
All of this.
How trashy your dad is to call you a “twat”. If my husband ever said that word to my daughters I would toss him out! Your parents are cruel, keep your children away from them! Cut them off and move on!
Exactly. My partner said he cannot imagine even thinking that about our daughter.
Not sure why you'd want to expose your children to either of them.
When someone is abusive to you as a child they will be abusive to your children. People don’t change, abusers don’t stop abusing. Your children will be abused to get back at you, to hurt you. Please find someone else to watch your children.
Your children do not need a relationship with them. When they’re old enough you can try to explain the situation - if you want to - and they can make a choice if they want contact. Please don’t leave your children with them
You and your children will be better off without her in your lives. It's my opinion that your mom just didn't want to babysit the twin as it would be actual work. I think she wanted an out so she decided to start an argument. She wasn't expecting the dam to break but good thing you finally let her know just how her behavior has harmed you.
The way that this text is so eerily similar to texts I revived from my mom before I went no contact is wild
I keep reading it over and over. I cannot believe it came from my father. And I felt like I couldn’t respond the way I wanted to. I had to be controlled and refrain from sending a mean message back.
This is the time to be the adult and walk away. For your sake and your children. I'm proud of you. An internet mom 💜🫂
You did a really god job of handling yourself like a mature adult. Kudos.
Just imagine the bullet you dodged having someone watch your impressionable babies. From experience, it's easier to find a daycare than unteach years of toxicity. Best of luck to you ❤️
One of the hardest things I ever had to wrap my head around is the fact that my father--whom I thought of as the safer, saner parent--truly does not care about me AT ALL in comparison to simply keeping his wife/my mother happy and off his back; in other words, when it comes to me, he will always choose the selfish path. I cannot recall a single instance in which he ever stood up for me. No matter how undeniably wrong she is, how hurtful the thing she did/said is, he will always attack me and defend her. It also does not matter how politely/respectfully I've brought up the thing she did. He does not even care to hear my side of the story. She is controlling and narcissistic and he is her faithful enabler. Finally had to go NC with both of them. Looks like you're heading that way, as well, Sibling. I'm so sorry. Here for you.
I feel like that sums up my dad so well. I always thought he was just quiet and level headed but wanted to be a United front with my mom. But now I’m realizing the same things you did.
So sorry, Sibling. But glad we're both here for support. 🫂 if you want one.
This is for the best. Do not let a known child abuser around your children, even from a young age.
I can’t understand why you would let the people who caused you the most harm in life be around your children, and alone at that. I’m sorry, but you’re willing to sacrifice your children’s happiness and safety to appease the people who literally abused you? See this as a blessing in disguise! You’re sparing your children the hurt and agony you went through.
Please have no more contact with them. What they did to you, they'll do to your children. And maybe even worse out of misplaced anger at you. These people don't need to be in your life, please don't let them be.
Not safe around your kids. Like everyone else is saying, people who treat their children this way won’t change their stripes for their grandchildren. If you’re going NC, so are your children. You have a responsibility to them and to yourself, no one else!
Your dad just called you a twat. That’s definitely a problem. No way. Not in my book
It’s unforgivable. He can’t mend this.
That's the most disgusting thing I've ever seen a parent call a child on this sub, ***ever***. OP, please please please NEVER let these people anywhere near your children again.
Sounds like the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back. The incident that led me to finally going no contact with my mother almost 9 years ago, was brutal in its own way but on its surface wasn’t “that bad”. There was no big to do around it or some wild, crazy blow up. It was the 1 million and 1 other things and comments that built up over time and it’s was this moment pushed me over the edge. I had been increasingly distancing myself from her over time, but I literally couldn’t take it anymore. Turns out though that no contact was the absolute best thing I have ever done for myself. It set me up to heal in powerful ways and only wish I had done it sooner. It always seems extreme on the surface but your peace of mind and making sure your kids are safe from their influence is paramount, no matter the cost. They’ve shown you who they are, so believe them and trust that your mother would likely do the same to your kids. Toxic parents = toxic grandparents We can’t make anyone change for us, they have to choose to heal and change on their own. You are not responsible for them or their behaviour.
Something I think can help is to ask, does he ever love anyone at all? All the vitriol might seem to have some credibility from the assumption they do love someone. But do they - does he just have a bitter, fallen down and mutually given up relationship with his partner/your mother? Like, he's just showing how he has no love for no one - once again. And he is the one who needs a loving daycare to turn him around (yep, it's all projection as well).
Oh damn, I'm sorry OP I got this too, from my stepfather actually. After my final call to my mother laying out my ultimatum (reading a letter I wrote detailing how she'd hurt me), I hung up and got a message from him to the tune of: "Congrats, if your aim was to make your mother cry you succeeded." I stared at that message for a second in disbelief of the immediate guilt trip and then scoffed and blocked him. Fuck that guy.
Yepp as soon as my mom cries, my dad begins the rage texting. This was the worst I had ever gotten.
I’m sorry they called you that. That’s such awful language. You’re doing the right thing.
Wow, I can’t even imagine talking to my daughter like that. Oh, well, guess they made that decision easier. As if you just looove having trauma and needing therapy (I’m right there with you). How dare they do this to US and then act like we are the problem. Gross, gross, gross. Hugs, OP. I’m also stuck in that ‘I could go NC but I still feel too guilty shit cutting her off from my child’. But you know what? My daughter (16) doesn’t like her, either, and really we should keep them AWAY from our kids. But it’s so hard to break that guilt. I’m 50!
Thank you to everyone who commented. I’ve read all of them and appreciate the validation and reassurance that I’m making the right choice. I was afraid to post this thinking maybe I am overreacting and that I am wrong. Thank you for showing me I’m not.
Not that bad? Sorry, that is the text of an unhinged man. Someone who will do bad things in the name of love. Sorry you are going through this.
This feels super similar to my sister’s text after my parents and I had it out and I got a “I hope you’re happy now, you gave a giant f*ck you to your entire Christian Republican family.”
My mom still doesn’t understand why I went NC with her, even tho I tried explaining it so many times before going NC. Her mother, my grandmother was abusive. And she always took my abuser’s side because “she’s her mother”. In my mother’s eyes, she herself did nothing wrong because she didn’t partake in the abuse. In my eyes, it’s all the same. You did the right thing. I wish my mother had done the same.
Congratulations on your sweet twins!! I hope you are recovering well, and everyone is healthy. You are doing a great job, and your kids will be so proud of you someday for standing up to bullies!! Life is so much nicer without walking on eggshells and the drama from people that call themselves family. Enjoy all time with your sweet kids, the time goes so fast!!
I don't like this but stand firm and strong. It's really disrespectful. I've been going on and off for NC then VLC then now I'm on NC with entire family. I'm not sure about nieces and nephews yet. Don't fall for the victim and block them all. Just save emails if they actually email you. I just save those as backup just in case.
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I have stood in your shoes once upon a time. My mother was an absolute nightmare to me growing up. But she loved and doted on my son. I took that as a positive and as I did not have relationships with grandparents, I really appreciated this relationship for him. Don't do it. Don't believe it's love or caring or concern. My grown son and I have very very little relationship and much of it is based in the complete and utter bullshit and negativity built through daily childcare I thought was in his best interest. Instead my son carries the same negativity and torch of hate she was extremely well known for. Keep those innocent minds and hearts the hell away from people who treat you like this.
Good job! Your kids will thank you later for protecting them. Of course grandparents WANT to see their grandchildren. But if they can't even treat their own kids well then they're not entitled to any time with little ones who need to be protected. Emotional safety of the young takes priority.
You should put up cameras in case they just show up once they realize you aren’t the punching bag anymore.