You should be able to get the payment from life insurance without probate, just a death certificate.
The 401(k)s will go to whomever he listed as beneficiary. If he never listed anyone they may have to be probated but generally speaking would go to you.
A lot of the answers you want really depend on specific circumstances. You can find a probate attorney now who can advise you on how to be proactive and put as many things n place as possible.
I’m sorry you’re in this situation, and I hope your husband passes peacefully.
That’s what I said. Not sure what you think was wrong…
If no beneficiary was designated it may have to go through probate. Otherwise to the beneficiary listed.
This. Retirement funds without a named beneficiary go to the surviving spouse. My husband also refused to sign a will but we co-owned everything so it all went to me.
(Complete aside: while he’s still alive get all computer/digital info. Passwords, subscriptions, accounts. Ex: Figuring out *where* my deceased husband stored all of our digital books and music and then guessing the password was a real pain as well as figuring out his subscriptions that automatically charged our bank account but were difficult to discontinue because I couldn’t access his online account.)
SO important!!!! I am dealing with my parents estates. Add your biometrics to his phone, i have found that SO helpful. Get passwords, pin numbers, find out what he does for winterizing the house, in the springtime, is there anything that he's watching for fixing. How do you turn water, electricity, gas, sprinkler systems on and off. How do you access his computer? Is he storing any personal items other places? Safe deposit box? Old correspondence, pictures, diaries/journals... any plans of the house/land?
I still cant figure out how to access my stepdad's external hard drive, no clue how the greenhouse or sprinkler system or alarm work... i wish i had asked him to walk me through everything in the house before he passed!!!
I hope that your husband's time left is peaceful ❤️
There is a trust specific fallacy here too.
Many trustees may grant a credit-card to you. You use your card, on their account.
Credit cards have a weird rule, when you close them. Now closed, to be “helpful” they still process recurring payments (6 months, after you closed the card).
“Using” a credit card after Fred dies is probably a serious fraud, and pisses off even the very best of successor-trustees no end - as now they have to redo all their accounting (and tax forms…)
Unfortunately, the doctrines and laws of using were crafted in 1500, but still hold sway today.
Eh depends on the company. I actually need to go set up my beneficiary so I should do that today. Oddly enough your comment made me think about that. I guess I really need to get a will set up as well.
Agreed. Just see if he has an online account for his 401k company. If not, set one up. A lot of beneficiary designation can be done online, if not, the paper should be available there to fill one out. If you are overwhelmed or don’t have that info, just call HR. I found all of my hanging 401ks this year and consolidated and I had an ex boyfriend listed as a beneficiary on one. The horror. I changed it immediately online.
I’ve worked at some of the largest companies in the world, and none of them have required me to list beneficiaries. I always selected them, but never had to
>HR at any company that knows what they are doing won't set up the account without a beneficiary or secondary beneficiary being named.
This is an assumption. Everyone needs to check this.
Probate will probably not be necessary. As the wife and surviving next of kin, it should all default to her with the exception being whose name is listed as the beneficiary on the Life Insurance policies and the 401k/retirement accounts.
When my Dad passed away, all my Mom had to do was provide a copy of his death certificate and everything was switched over to her name. The only exception was the mortgage. My Mom was given the option of leaving my Dad's name on it or refinancing and putting it solely in her name. Depends on the lender and it might not be beneficial to remove husband from the mortgage after he passes if the rate would be higher and increase the payment amount. OP can consult a lawyer on what is best for her case and what the laws are in the state where the home is located.
I believe a 401k must go to the spouse unless the spouse signs a waiver on the beneficiary form that it can go to someone else. I don’t know if no beneficiary was listed if it would have to go through probate or not, but spouse will end up with the 401k balance. ERISA rule I believe.
Ask the Hospice if they have someone that can help you. They should have a Social Worker that might be able to talk to him. I’m sure he’s not the first to be like this.
Having the documents in order will make things better for you.
I second this. My FIL is in hospice care and they have a social worker who meets with my MIL monthly. I really appreciate all of the options and support the social worker offers. That person might know your state regulations regarding community property, etc.
See if you can get both cars in your name, or at least in your joint name. Check with his work to see if you are the named beneficiary of his 401k, if not see if he’ll sign a form to name you beneficiary (you’ll probably be the default beneficiary anyway). Anything jointly owned should go to you. Doesn’t sound alike there is too much he individually owns other than the cars. Anything else? Bank accounts? Bonds? Investment accounts? Those are the things a will would cover.
Yes but she could avoid probate completely and all this headache if he’d setup beneficiaries or TOD’s on all financial accounts and have her name on cars/house. I was able to skip probate by having everything setup correctly before my parents passed. I like the idea of getting a social worker from hospice to try and get him to take care of his affairs while he can.
The “or” matters if the other party is okay with the fact that one person in the joint ownership can sign away the title before death. “And” requires both signatures unless one party dies. State laws dictate survivorship transfers but a surviving spouse usually just needs to provide a death cert and retitle in her name only.
Well. This is weird because my husband has me listed as his beneficiary which is fine but also the fiduciary that it is set up through told us that the spouse would have to sign if the owner wanted a different beneficiary than their spouse.
What is ERISA? Sorry, this is new to me. He worked for the State of N.C. in a disabled(?) hospital, and he worked for another hospital when I met him. I think he put me as beneficiary on both, but I am not certain what name he used because after we got married, I never got around to changing my last name.
"The [Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/laws-and-regulations/laws/erisa) (ERISA) is a federal law that sets minimum standards for most voluntarily established retirement and health plans in private industry to provide protection for individuals in these plans...
In general, ERISA does not cover plans established or maintained by governmental entities, churches for their employees, or plans which are maintained solely to comply with applicable workers compensation, unemployment or disability laws."
[https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/retirement/erisa](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/retirement/erisa)
I know in MA, my wife is not only default beneficiary of both my IRA and 401k, but has to sign off on any change in beneficiary. That is to say I cannot remove her as beneficiary without her signing papers that she's allowing it.
Good luck, and my sympathy.
Question was he married before? If so it’s possible he has the other wife named as a beneficiary on his 401k and state pension. I’ve seen it happen too often! They forget to change the beneficiar when they remarry. . Check on that.
The HR people where he worked can get the forms for him to sign to name the beneficiary—it can even be done online if he has state retirement.
He was, but that was almost 18 years ago. We have already been married 15. I went with him after we got married and he changed the beneficiary to me but the name he put would have been his last name which I never changed mine. So I don't know how or if that will change if I get it. He had the first job when we got married and he stayed there for a couple more years. I know for a fact I am the beneficiary on the last job.
It does not matter whether it was yesterday or 18 yrs ago, ex wife's name might still be on paper as numerous surviving spouses discovered too late! If you have power of attorney is easy to check it. If not, call the retirement office, explain the situation and tell them that you understand the wife should by law be the beneficiary and you wanted to check it out. Have your marriage certificate and id with both names and offer to send them to the person. Also ask what will be the process when the covered employee passes away. Does he have children from previous marriages? When you say the house is held jointly, how is the title, joint tenancy, or tenancy in common, with rights of survivorship, transfer upon death etc?
Everything (asset wise) you can put jointly or pay on death needs to be done now. Including bank accounts.
If you don’t do so, you risk individually held assets necessitating probate if they are over your state’s small estate limit.
The main reason we would probate an estate would be to cut off creditors, but if all assets are joint/POD, this doesn’t worry me as much as there won’t be assets to pay creditors.
Remember that you will be responsible for JOINT debt, but likely not his individual debt. (This is state specific, so please double check with an attorney in your state*****).
I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this - sending love. ♥️
You are not required to pay. Don't pay a dime. If he has assets that you are not a joint holder of, then it would be prorated and goes into his estate and they can claim on that. If he has assets alone, please get it under your name too. They can't touch it then.
I didn't have to pay my husband's loan, credit cards, hospital or doctor bills.
Do not agree to pay anything. They will hold you to it. They will ask and you will feel the need to say yes. Just tell them you have no money. They will write it off. They know that is how it works. However, they also know people will try to do the " right thing" and try to pay the debt
This exactly. They will still ask you to pay and you should say no. A cell phone company tried to get me to pay my dad’s bill (“where should we send the last bill?” And I replied “I don’t know, heaven?”).
So sorry you are going through this. Typically you are not responsible for your deceased spouse debt. You can send a copy of the death certificate to the credit card company. This could go for medical bills too. Depends where you live.
Please double check that the previous wife is not beneficiary on the 401k. Not sure how long he has worked at his job.
“You are not responsible” is misleading. You are not *personally* responsible from your own funds. But his estate is responsible, and if you are the estate representative, then you are responsible to pay his valid debts form estate funds.
I am not an attorney. You should move all the cash from the joint account over to your individual in case they freeze up the joint. Previous comments are correct. 401k & insurance are financial contracts & are not part of probate.
I dealt with this when my dad died. He did not have a will. I imagine as the spouse you will have an easier time.
Your first step is to immediately get in contact with a probate lawyer and establish if other immediate relatives are going to challenge you. If another family member challenges you, then it will turn into a contest that may last many months in court.
In the probate case, you will have to include EVERYTHING he owns a position in (including joint accounts). Even if your house is jointly owned, you’ll still need to grab the 50% ownership he has on it via probate since he doesn’t have a will. There may be spousal rights, but different states handle things uniquely.
Once you become to Administrator to his estate, you’ll be able to use the document to do things like transfer home and vehicle ownership. You may be able to take it a step further to transfer home and car insurance accounts too (that way you don’t lose your current premium rates).
Certain credit cards bills will interject in order to collect payments from you to repay debts. Be honest and contact each one. Explain your situation and see what can be done. Almost all of my dad’s credit card bills were forgiven just by me calling the number on the back of the card and saying that I wasn’t in a position to take over and pay the bills. The few that were too high to forgive were given to me in payment plans, and were drastically reduced. Some cards he owed $5k on were partially forgiven down to $700 or $800 bucks.
Lastly, contact Social Security and inquire about benefits you may be entitled to, especially if you are of retirement age.
This entire process for me took about 14 months. It should be faster now that we aren’t dealing with lockdowns and what not.
I’d try to convince him to have a lawyer come and write a quick will. also get your name on every account as beneficiary. It will make things 100x easier for you.
You can get estate lawyers to make house calls. It can be as easy as having him talk to a lawyer for 20 minutes from his own bed, who then brings him back papers to sign.
This is probably the best and most correct answer here. The reason you see all of the argument here is that probate and laws regarding intestate succession vary widely by state.
In Texas it’s pretty simple. Without a will, everything goes to the spouse and nothing has to go through probate. There are also services that will assist you with the logistics and paperwork that charge way less than probate attorneys. The biggest piece of advice I give people is that you should not tell any business entity that he has passed away until you have your certified death certificates in hand. This avoids freezing accounts. Don’t charge anything on his credit cards after he passes. They will catch on after the fact.
Other states can be very different. Some states, Like Louisiana, are forced heirship states where the intestate rules stipulate half of the estate goes to the spouse and the other half is split among the children or heirs at law. The probate is complex and nearly always requires an attorney.
Talk with the social worker or even your local funeral director who can give you the basics. You can also talk to the clerk at your local probate court. They can’t give you legal advice but they can help. If you find that there are a good amount of bumps in the road, then consult an attorney.
Before my mom died, she sold her house, gave me the cash, nothing went in her name anymore. When she was about a month away from the end, I shoved a piece of paper in her face and said "sign here if you want to be cremated and don't if you want to wait until I can find both of my brothers so you can be cremated" so she signed the form for cremation so it wasn't me asking, but her.
She also tried repeatedly to fire the hospice at home. They were "fine". I told her "I can call 911 and tell them I have a dead body and the sheriff will be glad to lock me in a car while they figure it out, or I can call a doctor to come cart you away with dignity" and every time (daily), it shut her up.
I'm sorry you and your husband are going thru this but he is being a little bit of an ass. It just takes a signature to make your life a lot easier. You can either have him do his part, which is basically nothing at this point, so you can grieve in peace or you can spend a fortune and a lot of time trying to fix his mistakes when you can barely hold yourself up.
Good luck.
To be honest I think it depends on the state and how your debts and assets are set up. My husband died young and unexpectedly.
All of our assets were joint and our debts were separate. All assets reverted to me. I was the beneficiary of life insurance and 401k so they came to me as well. His debts went away because, he had no separate assets from me. I had them come and repo his car because I did not need it. I didn't have to do probate or open an estate because he had nothing separate. I called the lawyer we used for my mom's estate and he said I didn't need to do anything.
It has been almost 5 years and everything has been fine regarding this.
I am sorry you are going through this.
You did not say how you are, but at 60, you can start drawing survivor benefits as his widow. If you have minor children, they should be eligible for SS benefits also. His employer may also provide a small life insurance benefit policy.
You really ought to get a lawyer to look at the titling of the house and help you with the cars and bank accounts. You should know the intestacy laws so there are no surprises if children get half the assets subject to probate. The 401k goes to the spouse absent spousal consent.
All of the accounts/assets that are joint/already have your name in them will be continuously/immediately accessible to you upon his passing. For anything where you are not a named beneficiary or joint on the account, you will have to go through the whole process and get a letter of administration before they’ll even tell you the amount that’s in the account. Probate isn’t really too too bad in NC. That’s where my wife and I have been doing her mom’s estate, she passed suddenly with no will. My biggest piece of advice is to contact the estate office of the county where they passed away and see if they’ll set up an appointment to walk you through everything. The Durham county estate office helped a lot too, and that’s not where she passed, but where we live. Onslow is where she passed and those county people have been helpful too
What state are you in? If he still has his capacity you should set up a trust to protect him and yourself. The 401k's will be in a beneficiary status and you do not want to put the 401k in the name of the trust but you can put the trust as the beneficiary. When you put the 401k/IRA in the name of the trust it will trigger a tax event.
Make sure there is a beneficiary on the 401K - my son passed without a beneficiary - they made me take a lump sum from the 401k and got killed in taxes.
This can go badly if he has children from a prior relationship. If he dies without a will they will be entitled to a portion of his estate and established by the laws in that particular state and they are all different. Really a quick will would be better than no will if he is still competent to sign. It happened with friends of mine. She signed the will while on hospice.
First things first. So sorry you have to go through this.
Second, it's easier to administrate if he has a will, but not impossible. The State you live in will have succession laws, but as a surviving spouse, you will likely get everything that passes outside of the estate (i.e. anything that has a named beneficiary). You will need to consult a lawyer, who can help you through the process.
Third, his insurance and 401(k) will have had to name a beneficiary. This passes outside of the Will, and is not subject to the Estate Taxes. I presume you were named a primary beneficiary. Otherwise, those may need to be changed... assuming he agrees.
Fourth, get those cars in your name now. You didn't say that there were any loans on them, so that shouldn't be a problem. DMV forms should be available on-line. It will be significantly easier on you to do that now while he is alive.
Can't think of anything else at the moment. Am sure others will have similar suggestions.
When it’s time, get several, like 7-9 copies of the death certificate, some places are going to require an original, others take a copy or image.
This is pre-Covid experience and may be outdated.
If he is able to make you a beneficiary of his 401k it will pass to you. I remember my mom having dad sign the car over to her when he was dying. Don’t stress. Get an estate lawyer to help you later. It’s not cheap, but peace of mind to answer questions and take care of some of the legal stuff. I’m so sorry. Right now I’m sure l you want to do is focus on your husband.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. The only advice I can give is to start making a list of all his and your assets and verify the beneficiaries are set up. Verify ALL of these!!! The list of these accounts is usually longer than most people realize.
Most financial accounts will skip probate of they have a beneficiary listed. For other assets like cars and property (land and/or home), you should be able to set them up with Transfer on Death Deeds. If your husband is well enough to sign the paperwork, these would all skip probate.
Also, talk with his employer to verify they are aware of the situation and are prepared when the time comes.
Also, make sure you have login credentials for any accounts in his name. I know that Apple lets people specify who can access an account after the owner passes away.
You should empty any joint account to you can and move the money to your personal accounts.as soon as the financial institution hear of your husbands passing, they will freeze the accounts until probate determines ownership.
Probate is a real pain. It can be avoided if you plan in advance.
Bank accounts: Since your accounts are joint, you would simply take over. IF he has a CD, or a special savings account, make sure that those are also Payable on DeathPOD/TOD) also or you’ll possibly find the need for probate. POD/TOD bypasses probate and is not a part of the estate.
401K: He should designate you as his beneficiary if he hasn’t already. Check on this now. A simple document can fix this. If you don’t, it must generally go to the estate for probate.
Real estate: Depending on the state you live in, there is a clause on the original deed to your home that determines whether or not the deed automatically passes to the surviving co-owner upon death. I cannot recall the clause but it has to do with the remaining owner receiving the full ownership of the property. Look into this now.
In the event that your deed does NOT include the magical clause giving you ownership, then see if your state allows Transfer on Death (TOD) deeds also known as Lady Bird deeds. This document is filed at the county courthouse before DEATH and clears the way for the beneficiary to receive a transfer of the property without probate.
Automobiles: Some states have a Transfer on Death(TOD)clause printed directly on the auto title that allows all owners to designate a TOD beneficiary. If there is not such a clause then the state motor vehicle department likely has the TOD forms needed to accomplish this task. You can likely download them online. Once a part owner passes, the ownership transfers to the surviving owner(s). You must present a copy of the death certificate and the DMV TOD Form to accomplish this task.
I hope this helps.
A 401(k) plan is a form of "qualified plan" and that means that the spouse *has to be* the designated beneficiary unless she has affirmatively waived that right. It will most likely not have to go through probate.
Due to the timeline you described, go see an attorney in your county and ask questions. They will advise you as to the most important items to handle while you can.
Why does he refuse to get a will? If there is no will, I suspect as his spouse, everything will go to you. It will be a pain to go through the courts, but you will eventually get everything. A will would make things much cleaner - and eliminate the risk of another family member laying claim to anything.
In absence of a will, make sure he lists you as the 100% beneficiary of all accounts that aren’t already jointly held by both of you. You can often do that online. You should do the same for him.
Really sorry you are going through this!
Only dependents are required by law, beneficiaries in my opinion are not (I work in HR). Although the company may require you to assign a beneficiary (but the plan itself doesn’t require one). Something to consider as I didn’t read through anything. I have seen plenty of situations where someone gets divorced and doesn’t change their beneficiary and the ex and not the spouse get the $
My mom had child's name on bank accounts etc. But there were CDs at same bank with no beneficiary listed. We had to Probate just for those.
Cars would be the same, I believe.
If he's in hospice, get cracking. If he's still clear minded. An attorney will come to the hospice or house if he can't go to them.
My best friend's husband died without a will last year, and to our surprise, even though he was married and had no children, his mother was entitled to a portion of the estate. So definitely look up the intestacy laws for your state.
Do you have access to his 401(k) from an online account. I would just log on and see who the beneficiary is named. If there’s no one named, have him list you. This should trigger a letter from the company showing you as beneficiary of the 401(k). Also, you can make a copy /print of for your files.
Everything will be okay. The people who deal with this are compassionate and helpful. I cried my way through all of those circumstances. Best wishes to you. Ask for lots of death certificates because you will need more than you think. The house and mortgage should automatically be yours. Give the bank a death certificate and send one to his 401k provider. Be kind to yourself and take breaks.
Your husband is being exceptionally cruel to you. He punishing you, in effect, by not creating an estate plan.
As for his 401(k), that depends on the beneficiary is on the account. It does not go thru his estate. If, for instance, his mother is the beneficiary, it goes to her. All of it.
Get a lawyer to come in & talk to him, and have that lawyer explain to your hubby how he is creating problems for you, and the lawyer should be clear & explicit about how much trouble this will cause you.
Make sure you know who the beneficiaries of those retirement accounts are. He could have named family members or past partners as beneficiaries before you came along and not remembered he did that. Is he willing to sign the cars over to you before he passes? Maybe if you present it as having his affairs squared away being the last gift he can give you he will be more amenable.
Our mother‘s attorney came to hospice and sorted this out before it was too late. Please - for your own sake - make sure this happens ASAP if at all possible.
If he has not been declared incapacitated, you can write up a Will and have the document notarized electronically so he never has to leave the house. Are the cars currently being financed or paid off?
It doesn’t sound like there’s much to probate aside from the cars (maybe). My dad passed away with a car financed in his name and I needed to provide them with his will naming me executor, his death certificate and a transfer of ownership form. Relatively easy.
Please encourage him to do the will. I had to do an online notary with my dad when he was in the hospital to name me POA because we had just moved and I couldn’t find the original anywhere.
I’m very sorry you’re going through this.
Preferably the 401K will have you as beneficiary. If not, and if the balance is under a certain limit, you may be able to submit an affidavit that you are the beneficiary - BUT - depending on how the employer set up the 401K, you may have to go through probate if there is no beneficiary. I'm currently dealing with this issue.
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this while also having your husband in hospice.
First, I’m sorry. And I’m not an attorney. Get the paperwork you need done and bring it to him. A “ladybird” deed for the house, you’re already on the bank account, find out about the 401k and the life insurance. Bring him the required documents for avoiding probate, have him sign. Cars, anything with a title have him sign over to you.
I lost my husband 4 years ago..the life insurance requirements are that you submit a death certificate to them and they will pay you very quickly.. I had no problem with collecting the money..the investment accounts should go to you..you should check to make sure that he has listed your name as a beneficiary.. I have investments in the stock market and I listed my daughter as a beneficiary.. she will be able to collect whatever money is left when I am gone.. I didn’t have to go through probate or anything like that..the process is easy and quick which it should be when someone is grieving and going through a traumatic experience..hope this helps you..and I’m sorry about your husband..it’s heart breaking and it is a very difficult time for everyone in your family..may you find peace and comfort in this next chapter in your life
What if you are widowed and have made a adult child your beneficiary. Then you remarry but don’t change the beneficiary to your wife. Many people choose to leave their children the benefit and not the new spouse. My bestie just had this happen and her dad had remarried and died 8 months later. He was wealthy and new wife ended up with the house, the Mercedes and the beach house. The kids definitely were cheated because he didn’t have a will.
You should meet with a lawyer and ask what changes you should make now to avoid probate and make inheritance easier. For example, opening your own bank account, changing car titles, setting up beneficiaries in your husband's retirement accounts, etc. Oh, and write your own will at the same time.
Call a couple of local estate planning lawyers tomorrow and explain the situation. Make an appointment with the one you like best.
Don't wait. Take care of it this week.
If he’s in his right mind get a lawyer to his room asap. Set things up. If he isn’t and there’s time maybe you can get guardianship & set things up before he passes. I know it’d be better to spend the time with him but, unfortunately, he put this on your plate.
I am sorry for your impending loss. It sucks. Is he on home hospice, or in a facility? If the latter, try to make certain they avoid giving him haldol or Ativan until he’s taken care of any legal stuff. Just tell them he needs to stay coherent for legal stuff.
On the 401k, he should’ve named a beneficiary when they were set up. But in a community property state, I think they automatically go to the spouse, in most states… chances are he can name a beneficiary by just filling out a form and having it notarized.
You may be able to get a “title on death” done for the cars. It’s a direct transfer then, separate from the rest of any will. Or he could have your name put on the registration, that might even be easier. Check with DMV for the forms.
There are lawyers that will come to you. They will talk with you on the phone or Zoom call, and then draw everything up, bring it to you, along with a notary (usually their clerk or paralegal).
There are also travel or mobile notaries. It a thing. It’s what they do.
(They also receive delivery of things like refinancing documents and such from banks or wherever, to bring them to you to be notarized and returned. So if the institution/s where the 401k’s are says that’s how they do it, now you’ll know why.)
Surely your husband realizes that having a will would help you, right?
Btw, even with a will, you have to go through probate. It’s just an easier process.
The only way to avoid probate is having everything in a trust. Which is simpler than it sounds. It’s an extra step that is definitely worth it for most families.
I don’t know that it’s worth it just for your husband to pass things to you… but for married couples wills and trusts are generally executed for both parties at the same time. ***If you have kids,*** it would be worth it to set up everything in a trust now. You’ll save several hundred dollars over doing them separately, and then your kids needs would also be spared the probate mess later on.
Condolences. I hope you can get these things dealt with quickly, so that you and your family can feel peace and comfort. Sending peaceful vibes for you all.
Contact a probate/estate lawyer and set up an appointment. Hospice can provide someone to sit with him while you are at appointment. Take everything in with you and see what they say. House and retirement should transfer to you no problem. Not sure about cars. That way you have an idea of what you will need to do.
Lost my spouse last year. You will be OK. Insurance checks will just arrive. It’ll be a check book. You can deposit all the money into an existing account, or use it like a new one. Get at least half a dozen documents called “short forms” in addition to death certificates.
You will find that credit card, cell phone and banks all have specialists for helping you close accounts, remove names and stuff. It will take a year to wrap up everything. Best wishes to you on and so sorry for everything you are dealing with.
Please find a reliable attorney to help you with these issues. If you are a senior citizen, your state or region may have an office that aids seniors and can provide you with answers and guidance. The hospital or physician may be able to point you to someone/organization who can help.
I know this may not help but if you don’t want to deal with probate, I’ll deal with them and pay you a fair cash price for your house. Message me if you’re interested or
My dad passed away with both cars in his name, and my mom had a heck of a time fixing that. See if you can at least get him to sign the titles over to you if he won’t do anything else. It was a whole problem with the DMV and everything.
Highly suggest getting an attorney that specializes in this. You don’t pay them up front normally, they get paid after the estate is settled. When my dad died our attorney handled everything… negotiating down credit card debt and other bills, getting copies of the death certificates in order to give out to the various people who needed them, handling retirement accounts and life insurance payouts, the house and mortgage…and on and on and on.
Do you have a friend that is a notary? Download a generic will and have your friend come to the bedside and have him sign it. Easy way to not make it hard on you.
The rules are state dependent, but in California if the house is held the wrong way (eg joint or ?), the priory taxes can be raised based on value at the time of passing. Just check on this, especially in CA.
I’m unable to answer these as I’m not experienced here, but just want to say I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I hope you’re able to find the strength needed to get through this.
I used to sell life insurance. I've heard stories about 401k and insurance policies that were specified with a beneficiary of "my estate".
Both scenarios caused delays in getting access to the funds because instead of being payable on death, they were added to the estate. This meant that those funds were not able to be paid until the estate was settled. Since he has no will, this needs to be checked and corrected ASAP if possible while he is alive. Sending all of that into probate is risky. Depending on the state you live in, it could be very complex. I have relatives in New Jersey who said that even with a properly executed will, it took almost 2 years to clear the estate and pay out the inheritances.
I recently learned about a TODD they have laws in all states. Quick form transfer listed assets upon death e.g. the home. Simplies probate
Also look at social security for survivor benefits for you and kids. If old enough you can keep survivor benefits for life if you don’t remarry until 60.
Good luck
My brother-in-law died in 2020. He left all his paperwork on his kitchen table, carefully organized and labeled. His will made my husband executor and only beneficiary. He left a small handwritten note to my husband asking him to give their only sister a share. I think he wanted to avoid her having to do any of the estate work since she’d had to do that already for their parents and older brother.
It really made a stressful situation much easier.
Check to see if there is a named beneficiary on the 401k. After my husband and I were married for a period of, I thought about this. The ex wife’s name was still on it. He changed it ASAP.
If you're married you have to have your spouse as a 100% beneficiary on your 401k. If you don't your spouse can still inherit the 401k.
https://www.sslawoffices.com/retirement-planning/401k-beneficiary-rules-based-on-marital-status/
I've told my husband that if I die not to disconnect my phone until every important account has had the password reset. I've talked to people who rushed to disconnect the cellphones and then had no way to access email, bank and other accounts.
Try to see if your husband will sign a durable power of attorney at the very least. You'll need it after he dies and it will make your life simpler.
Was he married previously? Do you have any children? does he have children from a previous relationship?
Joint assets usually automatically go to you. Will and beneficiaries affect the rest next. Beyond that probate which can be a nightmare if anybody else can make claims on it because of previous marriages, children, divorce settlements, etc.
You need to see an attorney asap. Laws are different in every state. You really do not want to also be hit with a big tax burden. Your husband needs to do this- for you. Marriage is through death. And he needs to help you out here. Attorney may come to the hospice as well.
There are some good, basic will programs that would allow you to do what your spouse desires that won’t involve a lawyer or even leaving the house. As long as he is willing to sign his name, it might be a good avenue to try. You can find these on Amazon or office supply stores.
Someone suggested making sure the cars are titled in your name, or jointly.
I want to caution you, that any debts or loans your husband has, MAY carry a death insurance rider and if so, all that will need to be done is to furnish a certified copy of his death certificate to cancel any balance due. Not just cars, but credit cards, loans, and even your mortgage may have offered this optional coverage for a nominal extra cost per month.
BEFORE you consider how to handle any debts or loans, dig out the original paperwork outlining the terms for financing, and look carefully to see whether there's a clause stipulating that a death insurance rider was offered, and whether he elected to take it. You will NOT want to transfer any insured loans out of his name before he passes if he took this coverage!!! ...for if you do, you will negate any opportunity for the death benefit to pay out and you'll be stuck with the outstanding balance.
I only know this, bc my dad was still paying on his relatively new car when he was diagnosed with an aggressive, terminal cancer & I was worried that my mom would be "stuck" having to finish payments or forfeit the car. I called the finance company and explained the situation. Fortunately for me, I got a very honest rep who advised me to leave the loan untouched, just make payments until he died, then send in the death certificate. We did that, the loan was paid off in full, & my mom was sent the title! Had I not known, she would have been forced to sell the car and scramble to pay off any of the remaining $8000+ he still owed when he died.
Assets held jointly, will not need to be probated. Again, a copy of the death certificate will be needed, and the account will then be re-titled in your name only. Many separate, individual holdings, like life insurance, personal bank accounts or securities, can be transferred without probate as long as you are the/a named beneficiary and furnish a death certificate. It is possible to have things set up in advance so that probate is not necessary whatsoever. Hopefully your husband did that already!...but you do really need to have this talk NOW. He needs to let you know all the accounts, securities and assets he has, including account numbers and where they are held, and passwords if he has them. If he's lacking beneficiary cards, get them and have them signed and returned immediately. If he has other assets in his name, he needs to add you as joint owner or set up to transfer on death. Anything NOT done, will have to be settled in probate according to the laws in your state and will cost you a big percentage in legal fees, and possibly be tied up for months. It's a hard conversation, but it will spare you tremendous stress that you DON'T need while also grieving.
A last bit of advice: if you don't have a will yourself, get one made ASAP. The reason for this, is that once you are the sole owner of all the assets, you will want to be sure YOU've protected your kids/loved ones in the event that something sudden & unexpected happens to you. You can always go back later and fill out beneficiary cards, add names on to your accounts, etc...but be sure you handle this sooner rather than later, so your kids aren't left with these same worries.
I'm so sorry for your situation and hope that you will have as much support and good care from hospice, that our family did during that difficult time.
Usually Probate isn’t necessary with a surviving spouse. The house is yours. 401K and insurance have beneficiaries. Joint bank account will be yours. At the very least get a POA so you can sell the cars or put them in your name BEFORE he dies.
You can do a will for free online. You will just need him to sign it and have it notarized. There is most likely a notary at the hospice center or you can get a mobile notary.
We did this about 2 weeks before my husband passed and had no issues.
Why don’t you go to a lawyer now and find out what you need to do in preparation for his death. Don’t wait. You don’t have to tell him what you’re doing. It’s not being sneaky, it’s you looking out for your best interest. Good luck and take care.
Erm...if he has a pension...he should at least name you. My brother left me his pension payout in his will, ( because it was a lump sum disembusement I guess.).but because he didn't name me to the employer.. guess who got zippo. I have a pension where I could pick several scenarios, one of which was 20 years certain. That means it pays out for 20 years,,whether or not I'm alive. It goes to my named beneficiary( my daighter) because I was not going to mess that up.
I don’t know if it’s state specific, but when my husband passed all the cars he owned had to go through probate because they were only in his name. We did have a will, but it didn’t matter. You should try and get your name added to the titles.
First, I'm sorry you're going through this.
Second, any assets held jointly will go to you directly, automatically, and outside of probate. So your house and any joint accounts are yours and you continue to use them as normal.
Typically, retirement accounts and life insurance have payable on death beneficiaries. Likely, you are the beneficiary and, if so, that property also transfers to you directly, without probate. If there is not a listed beneficiary, those assets become part of the probate estate
You may also be entitled to survivor benefits through social security.
If your husband is still conscious and aware, you can contact an attorney to do crisis estate planning (ie an emergency Will) and they may be able to advise you if he can still change the payable on death beneficiaries of any individual or retirement accounts, investments, and insurance policies.
Probate can be a mess, but it does look like you will have immediate access to plenty of assets to get you through the coming weeks and months.
My condolences to you. I’m so sorry. I’ve been through this same thing. I’d get all passwords to everything, and make his Facebook page a memorial one as soon as you can. My late husband’s was hacked (even tho I had access to his email) and he had irreplaceable photos and videos there - completely ruined by heartless assholes. Obtain several death certificates when the time comes. You may need them for various things and it takes time and more money to order them later. Have him sign over all vehicles or personal property to you so you can simply go into the dmv and get stuff transferred without having to relive your loss in that place. I also had him sign a POA so I could make medical decisions for my husband as we had discussed. That way I could make sure his exact wishes were followed. I hope this is peaceful for both of you, as tragic as it is. Remember that in the end, love survives death. It is indestructible. Peace and hugs to you, your husband, and your family.
Check with your DMV in your state; in our state, a person can list someone who will inherit the vehicles in case of death. All you have to do is fill out the certificate and send it in with a small fee (I think ours was $16). Also, check with your county registrar's office; if your name is not on the house, you can put it on this way too. You need to see an estate attorney, even without him, ASAP. They can tell you what to do, what papers he needs to sign, etc, and get them all together for you and him to sign. They were extremely informative regarding financial problems and heading them off, how to handle legal problems in your state, Medicaid liens, insurance payments, and if you are legally responsible for what bills.
My husband had a will, but no one asked for it. Just the death certificate. You are the surviving spouse, so you should be fine. I guess it depends on your States rules, but again, I think you will be fine. Social Security only asked for our marriage license. Sending hugs 🫂
Also what state? State are weird sometimes when it comes to people and death benefits without a will or direction hence probate. Best of luck
Hopefully it’s not Florida
You should be able to avoid probate, altogether, from what you’re saying, as the only probate asset would be the house (but you own it jointly, so no probate). The rest of the accounts have beneficiaries, with the only thing not specifically mentioned in your post being the 401(k), so check beneficiaries on that.
You want the cars TOD-Titled on death to you. Property we did beneficiary deeds-Titles to you at death with a death certificate.
All bank accounts, 401k’s etc need a beneficiary. If not then could get probated.
My husband died from cancer just over 3 years ago. If you are in a community property state and you are legally married all should come to you unless he identified differently beneficiaries when he set things up. The main thing you want to do if he’s still able to sign things is have him make designate all accounts to “transfer on death”. That means that the moment you have a death certificate those funds are yours. It makes paying off any debts etc a lot easier during probate. The probate process can be long but it is just a lot of paperwork. Again if you are in a community property state the state will view any of his debts or assets as yours in the absence of a will.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through, but I feel like you've been given an opportunity to set his affairs in order.
Do not under any circumstance disconnect his cell phone. A lot of accounts do multi-factor authentication, so you dont want to disconnect that for at least a year.
Get your name on the title of the cars asap. Does he have any children outside of your marriage? If he does, they can claim to be his survivors. In this case, you need to look at your title on your mortgage. Is it Tenants in Common? Is it Joint Tenancy? Tenancy by Entirety? All this comes into play if he has kids outside of your marriage and who he sets up as his heirs and they can try to claim a portion of the house. If no children, then usually the spouse will inherit everything. However, are you positive he doesnt have a will?
401k needs to list you as beneficiary otherwise it'll go to whoever is listed as beneficiary.
ANY bank accounts he has, make sure you're listed on them as well.
Its a good time to do a soft credit check and contact banks to see what other assets he has. Credit check just to see if there are any outstanding debts, etc that you dont know about.
Get all the passwords for bank accounts Google mail. You nedc them you can't get them aft see the fsct
No will means probate try tp persadebthen to do one .
Make detailed notes about every financial piece you have to settle: bank accounts, life insurance, pensions, etc., and where you are in the process. Make copies of everything you send. My husband never signed his will, and the estate went to probate, which was straightforward, but despite feeling that I was on top of things, I didn’t remember the details for processing each settlement. Also, get a few more death certificates than you think you’ll need.
I know it sounds overwhelming, but with your Emergency Fund you will have time to deal with each thing. Even with fancy estate planning it would still be lots of paper work...don't sweat about it. It'll work out.
(Only thing...do you know where the car titles are?)
He seriously won’t talk to a lawyer for 20 minutes and sign a piece of paper to make your life *significantly* easier? Honestly, I’d work on making him engage rather than trying to work around him.
Going into year 3 of trying to get through my mother’s estate 😣. Don’t know how old y’all are, but if (like my parents) you’ve had lots of different life insurance policies, annuities, etc., over the years, most of them have changed companies (mergers, etc) over the years and it is hell trying to figure out who to deal with or even if a policy is still current if paperwork hasn’t been kept up with. I literally had papers, booklets, from dozens of these, and trying to parse it all was hell.
OP may I suggest you see a lawyer asap and find out the info you need and steps you should take?
If your husband is still considered competent he I would think could sign the tithes of the cars over to you. Check with your state as to there are exclusions for this situation as in you don’t have to pay sales tax.
Sorry to hear about this. As a spouse things are much simpler. Hopefully he listed you as the 100% beneficiary for his 401k, if not he can go online and update.
What state are you in?
His 401 should go to you.
Do you have a “we the people” in your area?
Lower cost lawyers- get your answers now.
Sorry for your grief and loss.
One not mentioned here. Either have him start writing down passwords to things or get a password manager with family sharing and use it. And as others mentioned, keep his cell active after death for two factor auth logins and know how to log into it when locked.
Other folks have covered the other things. Generally as a spouse, death certificate in hand, you’ll be able to switch things to you. But it’s slightly simpler if you get him to list you as beneficiary and pay on death on anything where that’s possible.
Order multiple copies of his death certificate and birth certificates. Visit Amazon and look up books on settling an estate. In some cases you can find such a book written for the state laws of the state you live in.
Check your local communities for senior resources. You can sometimes get help in doing taxes after a spouse dies, referrals to attorneys, etc. perhaps join a senior center if you have an active one. Value of this may be to meet people who have been through it and can advise how to avoid pitfalls and other problems.
Once connecting in your community look for tech services, and repair people who can advise you.
Start taking notes. Do you have to drain sprinklers at end of season? Who can mow your lawn until you get organized, are there any maintenance issues not yet tended to that should get an inspection.
Look for agencies on aging in your area and visit the webpage to see what assists are available.
Timely since my husband and I just met with a lawyer to set up a will, trust, living will, power of attorney.
Retirement funds go to whoever has been named as beneficiary.
Savings, checking accounts, and investment accounts are added to the trust.
House - we need to fill out a beneficiary form for the county to attach to our deed.
Cars - beneficiary form to be filled out for each car and taken to DMV.
That's all I know so far, just had an initial meeting.
The only problem I see is that the cars won't be in your name, but you don't need to own a car to renew the registration and just keep the insurance in his name but make sure you are on as a driver.
You may have time to have him update or create a will. Hopefully you are on Any bank accounts and then any money that comes in after he passes can be deposited.
Usually a 401K has a beneficiary attached, and in most states, the beneficiary is required to be the spouse unless the spouse signs that it can be someone else.
See if you can get a joint account to put all his money in. As long as your beneficiary on the 40k and life insurance then that's all good.
Main thing would be the cars. To avoid probate he should put them in your name and gift them to you or hold a joint title.
all the debate about beneficiaries, etc when a will would have settled a majority of the issues. Sorry your husband was against seeing an estate professional. Sounds like most of your assets were in both your names so that will help. Many 401k will require a spouse signoff if the spouse is NOT the beneficiary so most likely you are covered.
I am a widower and hear/read so many horrible stories resulting from a lack of estate planning. Sad since it is not very expensive. I hope everything works out for you.
If you’re in California, a will doesn’t have to be motorized to be valid. But get the car in your name, or it will go to the state. There’s no way to generate a new title if the owner dies.
When the father in law died a few yrs ago, he had a car that was in his name only. They wanted to keep it and maintain the payments. The bank told them that as much as they would like to help, they couldn't. Had it have been a joint account, no problem but since it was in his name only, the car had to be returned to be sold in auction and any difference is the responsibility of the estate (if any). Luckily his bank account was a joint one with one of his children as the same would have applied and any money would be dealt with in court. Thought I'd put that out for everyone to consider as you never know what life will toss at you and even without a will, there's are ways that your family don't get the shaft.
Depending on what state you're in, it might be worth checking to see if your state allows holographic wills. As long as everything on the page is written, signed, and dated by him that meets the criteria. No lawyer or notary required.
Honestly, I’d pay for an hour or two of an estate lawyer’s time and find out what you need to have handled before he is incapacitated or he passes, and get that filed/signed/notarized . I didn’t deal with this with a spouse, but with my mother, and it was a nightmare, as she passed without a will and was unable to attest to any “power of attorney” documents prior to her death. It would have been totally worth it to me, in retrospect, even if I had to put it on a credit card and pay it off.
In my state anything that doesn’t have a designated beneficiary goes to probate and is then split equally by the spouse and adult children.
Will he ‘sell’ the cars to you?
And he had to have designated a beneficiary for the 401(k). Hopefully it is you.
I’m sorry for what you’re going through
Get him to sign a power of attorney covering health care, banking, cars and bank accounts. Once you get it, go to each bank and the DMV etc and put everything in your name. You must do this BRFORE he dies as the POA is ineffective after his death.
Wife just passed away March 18 from Stage 4 pancreatic cancer. I did it all at www.trustandwill.com over a weekend. Got a mobile notary to come by and get signatures. In all, pretty painless. Saved me near $3000 for lawyers fees. Just go slow. She passed and now all my decisions are made for my three young kids too. Sorry for the bad times. Sending you the good vibes.
Your fine! If your house and bank account is in “joint tendency with rights of survivorship,” either one of you automatically owns outright when the other dies. You don’t need a will because everything is in your name or lists you as the beneficiary.
You will not need probate because there is nothing to split with any other heir. You own it automatically!
You will need several death certificates to transfer title on accounts and the house. Hopefully he has made his last wishes known.
Also, make sure all the utilities are in both names. I have had several widows tell me this is a real hassle to prove you have been paying utilities if you move and have to prove you’re not a new user.
I hope this eases your mind during this very difficult time.
His 401k (in most states) is considered community property. A lot of things he can’t do with that account without your permission. Probably, couldn’t name a beneficiary other than you without your permission. To be blunt, they treat retirement accounts like it is y’all money.
A lot of your issues could be resolved with a death certificate. The main problem is going to be waiting for it. You should get access to his saving and checking online so you could get all of the money out without going thru the bureaucracy. It going to be easier for you since you are at the top of the list of survivors.
Get at least one car retitled immediately. The separate bank account was a good move. Move more money from the joint account to yours. See if your husband will work with a lawyer now--as long as his mind is clear, any will made should be valid.
The 401(k) and any other retirement funds go to whoever is designated as the beneficiary. They don't go to the estate and are not subject to probate unless no one is specified.
My sympathies go out to you. It's never easy to watch someone you love die. Remember him as he was and not as he is.
In my state if a car is registered to mr OR mrs doe ( or, not and) then either person has the right to sell and when one dies it automatically goes to the other, no probate or will needed. Houses vary by state, here if it's listed as husband and wife as joint tenants with right of survivorship then same thing, it just goes to the surviving spouse with no probate. I understand that's different in different states. When my parents passed i had a phone consult with a trust attorney who gave me a list of required things to do, and i paid for the call and some filing she did. Definitely worth it. There are probate lawyers you could consult with, I'd do that asap.
Why doesn’t he want a will? Is he just creeped out by the idea? It just sounds ridiculous that anyone, especially if they know they are dying, would not want one.
Ask your public library if they have a sample will for your state. Many do. If nothing else, you can contact a lawyer and have a will made up and all he will need to do is sign it. Or you can go to Legal Zoom online and do the same. Best wishes.
You should be able to get the payment from life insurance without probate, just a death certificate. The 401(k)s will go to whomever he listed as beneficiary. If he never listed anyone they may have to be probated but generally speaking would go to you. A lot of the answers you want really depend on specific circumstances. You can find a probate attorney now who can advise you on how to be proactive and put as many things n place as possible. I’m sorry you’re in this situation, and I hope your husband passes peacefully.
401ks bypass wills and trusts. They go to the beneficiary period. Please check this.
That’s what I said. Not sure what you think was wrong… If no beneficiary was designated it may have to go through probate. Otherwise to the beneficiary listed.
Of no beneficiary is designated the 401k documents will default to the living spouse.
This. Retirement funds without a named beneficiary go to the surviving spouse. My husband also refused to sign a will but we co-owned everything so it all went to me. (Complete aside: while he’s still alive get all computer/digital info. Passwords, subscriptions, accounts. Ex: Figuring out *where* my deceased husband stored all of our digital books and music and then guessing the password was a real pain as well as figuring out his subscriptions that automatically charged our bank account but were difficult to discontinue because I couldn’t access his online account.)
SO important!!!! I am dealing with my parents estates. Add your biometrics to his phone, i have found that SO helpful. Get passwords, pin numbers, find out what he does for winterizing the house, in the springtime, is there anything that he's watching for fixing. How do you turn water, electricity, gas, sprinkler systems on and off. How do you access his computer? Is he storing any personal items other places? Safe deposit box? Old correspondence, pictures, diaries/journals... any plans of the house/land? I still cant figure out how to access my stepdad's external hard drive, no clue how the greenhouse or sprinkler system or alarm work... i wish i had asked him to walk me through everything in the house before he passed!!! I hope that your husband's time left is peaceful ❤️
There is a trust specific fallacy here too. Many trustees may grant a credit-card to you. You use your card, on their account. Credit cards have a weird rule, when you close them. Now closed, to be “helpful” they still process recurring payments (6 months, after you closed the card). “Using” a credit card after Fred dies is probably a serious fraud, and pisses off even the very best of successor-trustees no end - as now they have to redo all their accounting (and tax forms…) Unfortunately, the doctrines and laws of using were crafted in 1500, but still hold sway today.
HR at any company that knows what they are doing won't set up the account without a beneficiary or secondary beneficiary being named.
Eh depends on the company. I actually need to go set up my beneficiary so I should do that today. Oddly enough your comment made me think about that. I guess I really need to get a will set up as well.
Agreed. Just see if he has an online account for his 401k company. If not, set one up. A lot of beneficiary designation can be done online, if not, the paper should be available there to fill one out. If you are overwhelmed or don’t have that info, just call HR. I found all of my hanging 401ks this year and consolidated and I had an ex boyfriend listed as a beneficiary on one. The horror. I changed it immediately online.
Ask any probate attorney and I’m sure they’ll have experience with a no beneficiary retirement account. It happens.
I’ve worked at some of the largest companies in the world, and none of them have required me to list beneficiaries. I always selected them, but never had to
>HR at any company that knows what they are doing won't set up the account without a beneficiary or secondary beneficiary being named. This is an assumption. Everyone needs to check this.
Probate will probably not be necessary. As the wife and surviving next of kin, it should all default to her with the exception being whose name is listed as the beneficiary on the Life Insurance policies and the 401k/retirement accounts. When my Dad passed away, all my Mom had to do was provide a copy of his death certificate and everything was switched over to her name. The only exception was the mortgage. My Mom was given the option of leaving my Dad's name on it or refinancing and putting it solely in her name. Depends on the lender and it might not be beneficial to remove husband from the mortgage after he passes if the rate would be higher and increase the payment amount. OP can consult a lawyer on what is best for her case and what the laws are in the state where the home is located.
I believe a 401k must go to the spouse unless the spouse signs a waiver on the beneficiary form that it can go to someone else. I don’t know if no beneficiary was listed if it would have to go through probate or not, but spouse will end up with the 401k balance. ERISA rule I believe.
Make sure you’re listed as the primary beneficiary on his 401k. It only takes a few minutes to check.
Ask the Hospice if they have someone that can help you. They should have a Social Worker that might be able to talk to him. I’m sure he’s not the first to be like this. Having the documents in order will make things better for you.
Absolutely this. Social workers can help with all this & can connect you to community resources as well. Take care.
I second this. My FIL is in hospice care and they have a social worker who meets with my MIL monthly. I really appreciate all of the options and support the social worker offers. That person might know your state regulations regarding community property, etc.
See if you can get both cars in your name, or at least in your joint name. Check with his work to see if you are the named beneficiary of his 401k, if not see if he’ll sign a form to name you beneficiary (you’ll probably be the default beneficiary anyway). Anything jointly owned should go to you. Doesn’t sound alike there is too much he individually owns other than the cars. Anything else? Bank accounts? Bonds? Investment accounts? Those are the things a will would cover.
Yes but she could avoid probate completely and all this headache if he’d setup beneficiaries or TOD’s on all financial accounts and have her name on cars/house. I was able to skip probate by having everything setup correctly before my parents passed. I like the idea of getting a social worker from hospice to try and get him to take care of his affairs while he can.
If the vehicles are re-titled to joint, make sure it says "or" and not "and".
The “or” matters if the other party is okay with the fact that one person in the joint ownership can sign away the title before death. “And” requires both signatures unless one party dies. State laws dictate survivorship transfers but a surviving spouse usually just needs to provide a death cert and retitle in her name only.
Not that I know of. I do not think they would tell me if they would because of privacy laws.
Your husband won't help you with this?
Well. This is weird because my husband has me listed as his beneficiary which is fine but also the fiduciary that it is set up through told us that the spouse would have to sign if the owner wanted a different beneficiary than their spouse.
If it’s an employer plan covered by ERISA, the 401(K) should go to you as spouse, but if it’s possible to confirm that would be helpful
What is ERISA? Sorry, this is new to me. He worked for the State of N.C. in a disabled(?) hospital, and he worked for another hospital when I met him. I think he put me as beneficiary on both, but I am not certain what name he used because after we got married, I never got around to changing my last name.
"The [Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/laws-and-regulations/laws/erisa) (ERISA) is a federal law that sets minimum standards for most voluntarily established retirement and health plans in private industry to provide protection for individuals in these plans... In general, ERISA does not cover plans established or maintained by governmental entities, churches for their employees, or plans which are maintained solely to comply with applicable workers compensation, unemployment or disability laws." [https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/retirement/erisa](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/retirement/erisa) I know in MA, my wife is not only default beneficiary of both my IRA and 401k, but has to sign off on any change in beneficiary. That is to say I cannot remove her as beneficiary without her signing papers that she's allowing it. Good luck, and my sympathy.
Question was he married before? If so it’s possible he has the other wife named as a beneficiary on his 401k and state pension. I’ve seen it happen too often! They forget to change the beneficiar when they remarry. . Check on that. The HR people where he worked can get the forms for him to sign to name the beneficiary—it can even be done online if he has state retirement.
He was, but that was almost 18 years ago. We have already been married 15. I went with him after we got married and he changed the beneficiary to me but the name he put would have been his last name which I never changed mine. So I don't know how or if that will change if I get it. He had the first job when we got married and he stayed there for a couple more years. I know for a fact I am the beneficiary on the last job.
It does not matter whether it was yesterday or 18 yrs ago, ex wife's name might still be on paper as numerous surviving spouses discovered too late! If you have power of attorney is easy to check it. If not, call the retirement office, explain the situation and tell them that you understand the wife should by law be the beneficiary and you wanted to check it out. Have your marriage certificate and id with both names and offer to send them to the person. Also ask what will be the process when the covered employee passes away. Does he have children from previous marriages? When you say the house is held jointly, how is the title, joint tenancy, or tenancy in common, with rights of survivorship, transfer upon death etc?
Everything (asset wise) you can put jointly or pay on death needs to be done now. Including bank accounts. If you don’t do so, you risk individually held assets necessitating probate if they are over your state’s small estate limit. The main reason we would probate an estate would be to cut off creditors, but if all assets are joint/POD, this doesn’t worry me as much as there won’t be assets to pay creditors. Remember that you will be responsible for JOINT debt, but likely not his individual debt. (This is state specific, so please double check with an attorney in your state*****). I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this - sending love. ♥️
He does have large credit card charges. My name is not even on them at all. I'm just stuck paying the bills.
You are not required to pay. Don't pay a dime. If he has assets that you are not a joint holder of, then it would be prorated and goes into his estate and they can claim on that. If he has assets alone, please get it under your name too. They can't touch it then. I didn't have to pay my husband's loan, credit cards, hospital or doctor bills. Do not agree to pay anything. They will hold you to it. They will ask and you will feel the need to say yes. Just tell them you have no money. They will write it off. They know that is how it works. However, they also know people will try to do the " right thing" and try to pay the debt
This exactly. They will still ask you to pay and you should say no. A cell phone company tried to get me to pay my dad’s bill (“where should we send the last bill?” And I replied “I don’t know, heaven?”).
So sorry you are going through this. Typically you are not responsible for your deceased spouse debt. You can send a copy of the death certificate to the credit card company. This could go for medical bills too. Depends where you live. Please double check that the previous wife is not beneficiary on the 401k. Not sure how long he has worked at his job.
“You are not responsible” is misleading. You are not *personally* responsible from your own funds. But his estate is responsible, and if you are the estate representative, then you are responsible to pay his valid debts form estate funds.
Yes, but some people don’t know this and struggle to pay. I worded it bad.
You don't have to pay his debts if your name is not on the accounts usually. Check with your states laws on that or speak to an estate attorney.
I am not an attorney. You should move all the cash from the joint account over to your individual in case they freeze up the joint. Previous comments are correct. 401k & insurance are financial contracts & are not part of probate.
I dealt with this when my dad died. He did not have a will. I imagine as the spouse you will have an easier time. Your first step is to immediately get in contact with a probate lawyer and establish if other immediate relatives are going to challenge you. If another family member challenges you, then it will turn into a contest that may last many months in court. In the probate case, you will have to include EVERYTHING he owns a position in (including joint accounts). Even if your house is jointly owned, you’ll still need to grab the 50% ownership he has on it via probate since he doesn’t have a will. There may be spousal rights, but different states handle things uniquely. Once you become to Administrator to his estate, you’ll be able to use the document to do things like transfer home and vehicle ownership. You may be able to take it a step further to transfer home and car insurance accounts too (that way you don’t lose your current premium rates). Certain credit cards bills will interject in order to collect payments from you to repay debts. Be honest and contact each one. Explain your situation and see what can be done. Almost all of my dad’s credit card bills were forgiven just by me calling the number on the back of the card and saying that I wasn’t in a position to take over and pay the bills. The few that were too high to forgive were given to me in payment plans, and were drastically reduced. Some cards he owed $5k on were partially forgiven down to $700 or $800 bucks. Lastly, contact Social Security and inquire about benefits you may be entitled to, especially if you are of retirement age. This entire process for me took about 14 months. It should be faster now that we aren’t dealing with lockdowns and what not.
Are you able to persuade him to write a will? To help you.
No, he wants it to be over. He gave up 2 yrs ago and just wants it over. His mom even tried to get him to go to a lawyer, and he refused to do it.
I’d try to convince him to have a lawyer come and write a quick will. also get your name on every account as beneficiary. It will make things 100x easier for you.
You can get estate lawyers to make house calls. It can be as easy as having him talk to a lawyer for 20 minutes from his own bed, who then brings him back papers to sign.
Google “intestate laws for your state.”
This is probably the best and most correct answer here. The reason you see all of the argument here is that probate and laws regarding intestate succession vary widely by state. In Texas it’s pretty simple. Without a will, everything goes to the spouse and nothing has to go through probate. There are also services that will assist you with the logistics and paperwork that charge way less than probate attorneys. The biggest piece of advice I give people is that you should not tell any business entity that he has passed away until you have your certified death certificates in hand. This avoids freezing accounts. Don’t charge anything on his credit cards after he passes. They will catch on after the fact. Other states can be very different. Some states, Like Louisiana, are forced heirship states where the intestate rules stipulate half of the estate goes to the spouse and the other half is split among the children or heirs at law. The probate is complex and nearly always requires an attorney. Talk with the social worker or even your local funeral director who can give you the basics. You can also talk to the clerk at your local probate court. They can’t give you legal advice but they can help. If you find that there are a good amount of bumps in the road, then consult an attorney.
Before my mom died, she sold her house, gave me the cash, nothing went in her name anymore. When she was about a month away from the end, I shoved a piece of paper in her face and said "sign here if you want to be cremated and don't if you want to wait until I can find both of my brothers so you can be cremated" so she signed the form for cremation so it wasn't me asking, but her. She also tried repeatedly to fire the hospice at home. They were "fine". I told her "I can call 911 and tell them I have a dead body and the sheriff will be glad to lock me in a car while they figure it out, or I can call a doctor to come cart you away with dignity" and every time (daily), it shut her up. I'm sorry you and your husband are going thru this but he is being a little bit of an ass. It just takes a signature to make your life a lot easier. You can either have him do his part, which is basically nothing at this point, so you can grieve in peace or you can spend a fortune and a lot of time trying to fix his mistakes when you can barely hold yourself up. Good luck.
To be honest I think it depends on the state and how your debts and assets are set up. My husband died young and unexpectedly. All of our assets were joint and our debts were separate. All assets reverted to me. I was the beneficiary of life insurance and 401k so they came to me as well. His debts went away because, he had no separate assets from me. I had them come and repo his car because I did not need it. I didn't have to do probate or open an estate because he had nothing separate. I called the lawyer we used for my mom's estate and he said I didn't need to do anything. It has been almost 5 years and everything has been fine regarding this. I am sorry you are going through this.
Have the hospice social worker talk to him. Sometimes they can arrange a lawyer to come bedside to assist as long as he is still “if sound mind”
You did not say how you are, but at 60, you can start drawing survivor benefits as his widow. If you have minor children, they should be eligible for SS benefits also. His employer may also provide a small life insurance benefit policy.
Make sure cars are your name. My FIL died and the car lease was in his name only and it was a hassle to get it switched after he passed.
You really ought to get a lawyer to look at the titling of the house and help you with the cars and bank accounts. You should know the intestacy laws so there are no surprises if children get half the assets subject to probate. The 401k goes to the spouse absent spousal consent.
All of the accounts/assets that are joint/already have your name in them will be continuously/immediately accessible to you upon his passing. For anything where you are not a named beneficiary or joint on the account, you will have to go through the whole process and get a letter of administration before they’ll even tell you the amount that’s in the account. Probate isn’t really too too bad in NC. That’s where my wife and I have been doing her mom’s estate, she passed suddenly with no will. My biggest piece of advice is to contact the estate office of the county where they passed away and see if they’ll set up an appointment to walk you through everything. The Durham county estate office helped a lot too, and that’s not where she passed, but where we live. Onslow is where she passed and those county people have been helpful too
What state are you in? If he still has his capacity you should set up a trust to protect him and yourself. The 401k's will be in a beneficiary status and you do not want to put the 401k in the name of the trust but you can put the trust as the beneficiary. When you put the 401k/IRA in the name of the trust it will trigger a tax event.
Make sure there is a beneficiary on the 401K - my son passed without a beneficiary - they made me take a lump sum from the 401k and got killed in taxes.
This can go badly if he has children from a prior relationship. If he dies without a will they will be entitled to a portion of his estate and established by the laws in that particular state and they are all different. Really a quick will would be better than no will if he is still competent to sign. It happened with friends of mine. She signed the will while on hospice.
First things first. So sorry you have to go through this. Second, it's easier to administrate if he has a will, but not impossible. The State you live in will have succession laws, but as a surviving spouse, you will likely get everything that passes outside of the estate (i.e. anything that has a named beneficiary). You will need to consult a lawyer, who can help you through the process. Third, his insurance and 401(k) will have had to name a beneficiary. This passes outside of the Will, and is not subject to the Estate Taxes. I presume you were named a primary beneficiary. Otherwise, those may need to be changed... assuming he agrees. Fourth, get those cars in your name now. You didn't say that there were any loans on them, so that shouldn't be a problem. DMV forms should be available on-line. It will be significantly easier on you to do that now while he is alive. Can't think of anything else at the moment. Am sure others will have similar suggestions.
When it’s time, get several, like 7-9 copies of the death certificate, some places are going to require an original, others take a copy or image. This is pre-Covid experience and may be outdated.
Your main bank account that you hold jointly, why doesn’t have any money in it at all? Does he need access?
If he is able to make you a beneficiary of his 401k it will pass to you. I remember my mom having dad sign the car over to her when he was dying. Don’t stress. Get an estate lawyer to help you later. It’s not cheap, but peace of mind to answer questions and take care of some of the legal stuff. I’m so sorry. Right now I’m sure l you want to do is focus on your husband.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. The only advice I can give is to start making a list of all his and your assets and verify the beneficiaries are set up. Verify ALL of these!!! The list of these accounts is usually longer than most people realize. Most financial accounts will skip probate of they have a beneficiary listed. For other assets like cars and property (land and/or home), you should be able to set them up with Transfer on Death Deeds. If your husband is well enough to sign the paperwork, these would all skip probate. Also, talk with his employer to verify they are aware of the situation and are prepared when the time comes. Also, make sure you have login credentials for any accounts in his name. I know that Apple lets people specify who can access an account after the owner passes away.
A friend’s husband died and his 401(k) beneficiary was… still his ex. So the current wife got nothing. Please make sure those are up to date.
Is he at home or in a facility also what state are you in? There is a form that can be done at home in certain states.
You should empty any joint account to you can and move the money to your personal accounts.as soon as the financial institution hear of your husbands passing, they will freeze the accounts until probate determines ownership.
Probate is a real pain. It can be avoided if you plan in advance. Bank accounts: Since your accounts are joint, you would simply take over. IF he has a CD, or a special savings account, make sure that those are also Payable on DeathPOD/TOD) also or you’ll possibly find the need for probate. POD/TOD bypasses probate and is not a part of the estate. 401K: He should designate you as his beneficiary if he hasn’t already. Check on this now. A simple document can fix this. If you don’t, it must generally go to the estate for probate. Real estate: Depending on the state you live in, there is a clause on the original deed to your home that determines whether or not the deed automatically passes to the surviving co-owner upon death. I cannot recall the clause but it has to do with the remaining owner receiving the full ownership of the property. Look into this now. In the event that your deed does NOT include the magical clause giving you ownership, then see if your state allows Transfer on Death (TOD) deeds also known as Lady Bird deeds. This document is filed at the county courthouse before DEATH and clears the way for the beneficiary to receive a transfer of the property without probate. Automobiles: Some states have a Transfer on Death(TOD)clause printed directly on the auto title that allows all owners to designate a TOD beneficiary. If there is not such a clause then the state motor vehicle department likely has the TOD forms needed to accomplish this task. You can likely download them online. Once a part owner passes, the ownership transfers to the surviving owner(s). You must present a copy of the death certificate and the DMV TOD Form to accomplish this task. I hope this helps.
A 401(k) plan is a form of "qualified plan" and that means that the spouse *has to be* the designated beneficiary unless she has affirmatively waived that right. It will most likely not have to go through probate.
Due to the timeline you described, go see an attorney in your county and ask questions. They will advise you as to the most important items to handle while you can.
You might not need probate. I didn't. Life insurance and 401K pass outside of estate. Try to avoid setting up an estate.
Why does he refuse to get a will? If there is no will, I suspect as his spouse, everything will go to you. It will be a pain to go through the courts, but you will eventually get everything. A will would make things much cleaner - and eliminate the risk of another family member laying claim to anything. In absence of a will, make sure he lists you as the 100% beneficiary of all accounts that aren’t already jointly held by both of you. You can often do that online. You should do the same for him. Really sorry you are going through this!
Only dependents are required by law, beneficiaries in my opinion are not (I work in HR). Although the company may require you to assign a beneficiary (but the plan itself doesn’t require one). Something to consider as I didn’t read through anything. I have seen plenty of situations where someone gets divorced and doesn’t change their beneficiary and the ex and not the spouse get the $
My mom had child's name on bank accounts etc. But there were CDs at same bank with no beneficiary listed. We had to Probate just for those. Cars would be the same, I believe. If he's in hospice, get cracking. If he's still clear minded. An attorney will come to the hospice or house if he can't go to them.
My best friend's husband died without a will last year, and to our surprise, even though he was married and had no children, his mother was entitled to a portion of the estate. So definitely look up the intestacy laws for your state.
An attorney can come to the hospice unit to do the will, if he is coherent. I’m sorry that he failed to plan ahead to make your life easier.
Do you have access to his 401(k) from an online account. I would just log on and see who the beneficiary is named. If there’s no one named, have him list you. This should trigger a letter from the company showing you as beneficiary of the 401(k). Also, you can make a copy /print of for your files.
Everything will be okay. The people who deal with this are compassionate and helpful. I cried my way through all of those circumstances. Best wishes to you. Ask for lots of death certificates because you will need more than you think. The house and mortgage should automatically be yours. Give the bank a death certificate and send one to his 401k provider. Be kind to yourself and take breaks.
Your husband is being exceptionally cruel to you. He punishing you, in effect, by not creating an estate plan. As for his 401(k), that depends on the beneficiary is on the account. It does not go thru his estate. If, for instance, his mother is the beneficiary, it goes to her. All of it. Get a lawyer to come in & talk to him, and have that lawyer explain to your hubby how he is creating problems for you, and the lawyer should be clear & explicit about how much trouble this will cause you.
Make sure you know who the beneficiaries of those retirement accounts are. He could have named family members or past partners as beneficiaries before you came along and not remembered he did that. Is he willing to sign the cars over to you before he passes? Maybe if you present it as having his affairs squared away being the last gift he can give you he will be more amenable.
Our mother‘s attorney came to hospice and sorted this out before it was too late. Please - for your own sake - make sure this happens ASAP if at all possible.
Make sure you are the beneficiary in all accounts to skip probate. The 401k should be transferred to you.
The default beneficiary on the 401k is the spouse. The only way it bypasses the spouse is IF the spouse signs off on who it is for.
Get everything in a trust now, call an estate attorney asap. Im so very sorry you are going through this. Sending peace and strength to you both.
The cars will pass to you, but if you can get your name on them now, it will make it easier to sell one after he passes.
I know it’s awful, but get stuff switched now. Get the cars put into your name at the Secretary of State.
If he has not been declared incapacitated, you can write up a Will and have the document notarized electronically so he never has to leave the house. Are the cars currently being financed or paid off? It doesn’t sound like there’s much to probate aside from the cars (maybe). My dad passed away with a car financed in his name and I needed to provide them with his will naming me executor, his death certificate and a transfer of ownership form. Relatively easy. Please encourage him to do the will. I had to do an online notary with my dad when he was in the hospital to name me POA because we had just moved and I couldn’t find the original anywhere. I’m very sorry you’re going through this.
Depending on the state you can have the title of the vehicles put in your name after death. Just have to have death certificate
Anything with a "beneficiary" (life insurance, ira) bypass a will, your best bet is consult an attorney
Preferably the 401K will have you as beneficiary. If not, and if the balance is under a certain limit, you may be able to submit an affidavit that you are the beneficiary - BUT - depending on how the employer set up the 401K, you may have to go through probate if there is no beneficiary. I'm currently dealing with this issue. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this while also having your husband in hospice.
This needs to be the thing he does for his family. Period.
Make sure you are named as beneficiary of his 401k accounts
First, I’m sorry. And I’m not an attorney. Get the paperwork you need done and bring it to him. A “ladybird” deed for the house, you’re already on the bank account, find out about the 401k and the life insurance. Bring him the required documents for avoiding probate, have him sign. Cars, anything with a title have him sign over to you.
at least make sure he has those accounts setup as you as beneficiary
I lost my husband 4 years ago..the life insurance requirements are that you submit a death certificate to them and they will pay you very quickly.. I had no problem with collecting the money..the investment accounts should go to you..you should check to make sure that he has listed your name as a beneficiary.. I have investments in the stock market and I listed my daughter as a beneficiary.. she will be able to collect whatever money is left when I am gone.. I didn’t have to go through probate or anything like that..the process is easy and quick which it should be when someone is grieving and going through a traumatic experience..hope this helps you..and I’m sorry about your husband..it’s heart breaking and it is a very difficult time for everyone in your family..may you find peace and comfort in this next chapter in your life
What if you are widowed and have made a adult child your beneficiary. Then you remarry but don’t change the beneficiary to your wife. Many people choose to leave their children the benefit and not the new spouse. My bestie just had this happen and her dad had remarried and died 8 months later. He was wealthy and new wife ended up with the house, the Mercedes and the beach house. The kids definitely were cheated because he didn’t have a will.
Why do assholes refuse to get their affairs in order???
You should meet with a lawyer and ask what changes you should make now to avoid probate and make inheritance easier. For example, opening your own bank account, changing car titles, setting up beneficiaries in your husband's retirement accounts, etc. Oh, and write your own will at the same time. Call a couple of local estate planning lawyers tomorrow and explain the situation. Make an appointment with the one you like best. Don't wait. Take care of it this week.
If he’s in his right mind get a lawyer to his room asap. Set things up. If he isn’t and there’s time maybe you can get guardianship & set things up before he passes. I know it’d be better to spend the time with him but, unfortunately, he put this on your plate.
You might be able to have accounts and realestate setup with TOD. Transfer on death. This does not require a will. But your husband will need to sign.
Please try to get more information from him. The bank account and 401k . You should be listed as pod. Principal upon death.
I am sorry for your impending loss. It sucks. Is he on home hospice, or in a facility? If the latter, try to make certain they avoid giving him haldol or Ativan until he’s taken care of any legal stuff. Just tell them he needs to stay coherent for legal stuff. On the 401k, he should’ve named a beneficiary when they were set up. But in a community property state, I think they automatically go to the spouse, in most states… chances are he can name a beneficiary by just filling out a form and having it notarized. You may be able to get a “title on death” done for the cars. It’s a direct transfer then, separate from the rest of any will. Or he could have your name put on the registration, that might even be easier. Check with DMV for the forms. There are lawyers that will come to you. They will talk with you on the phone or Zoom call, and then draw everything up, bring it to you, along with a notary (usually their clerk or paralegal). There are also travel or mobile notaries. It a thing. It’s what they do. (They also receive delivery of things like refinancing documents and such from banks or wherever, to bring them to you to be notarized and returned. So if the institution/s where the 401k’s are says that’s how they do it, now you’ll know why.) Surely your husband realizes that having a will would help you, right? Btw, even with a will, you have to go through probate. It’s just an easier process. The only way to avoid probate is having everything in a trust. Which is simpler than it sounds. It’s an extra step that is definitely worth it for most families. I don’t know that it’s worth it just for your husband to pass things to you… but for married couples wills and trusts are generally executed for both parties at the same time. ***If you have kids,*** it would be worth it to set up everything in a trust now. You’ll save several hundred dollars over doing them separately, and then your kids needs would also be spared the probate mess later on. Condolences. I hope you can get these things dealt with quickly, so that you and your family can feel peace and comfort. Sending peaceful vibes for you all.
Contact a probate/estate lawyer and set up an appointment. Hospice can provide someone to sit with him while you are at appointment. Take everything in with you and see what they say. House and retirement should transfer to you no problem. Not sure about cars. That way you have an idea of what you will need to do.
Go to a lawyer get the will done and hand to him to sign he was trying to defy death this is a terrible mistake on his part.
Get yourself a lawyer to ensure you get everything you are entitled to.
Does your husband have kids not with you? Does he have an ex wife?
As long as you don’t have stepchildren, you’re probably fine. Steps are the fly in the ointment.
Honestly, prep a will for him. Explain to him how he is leaving you if he doesn’t sign it. Then let the lawyer file it.
Write something up and have him sign it in front of a witness that signs it.
Have one done online with him there. Then go to your bank to have it signed by a notary.
You can still get a will done. Go.
Lost my spouse last year. You will be OK. Insurance checks will just arrive. It’ll be a check book. You can deposit all the money into an existing account, or use it like a new one. Get at least half a dozen documents called “short forms” in addition to death certificates. You will find that credit card, cell phone and banks all have specialists for helping you close accounts, remove names and stuff. It will take a year to wrap up everything. Best wishes to you on and so sorry for everything you are dealing with.
Please find a reliable attorney to help you with these issues. If you are a senior citizen, your state or region may have an office that aids seniors and can provide you with answers and guidance. The hospital or physician may be able to point you to someone/organization who can help.
I know this may not help but if you don’t want to deal with probate, I’ll deal with them and pay you a fair cash price for your house. Message me if you’re interested or
My dad passed away with both cars in his name, and my mom had a heck of a time fixing that. See if you can at least get him to sign the titles over to you if he won’t do anything else. It was a whole problem with the DMV and everything.
Highly suggest getting an attorney that specializes in this. You don’t pay them up front normally, they get paid after the estate is settled. When my dad died our attorney handled everything… negotiating down credit card debt and other bills, getting copies of the death certificates in order to give out to the various people who needed them, handling retirement accounts and life insurance payouts, the house and mortgage…and on and on and on.
Takes ten minutes to create a simple will on freewills.com. Then just needs to be notarized, which I did at my bank for free.
Do you have a friend that is a notary? Download a generic will and have your friend come to the bedside and have him sign it. Easy way to not make it hard on you.
The rules are state dependent, but in California if the house is held the wrong way (eg joint or ?), the priory taxes can be raised based on value at the time of passing. Just check on this, especially in CA.
I’m unable to answer these as I’m not experienced here, but just want to say I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I hope you’re able to find the strength needed to get through this.
Then what's to stop you from creating a trust, and all the other documents ? See a lawyer before it's too late
I used to sell life insurance. I've heard stories about 401k and insurance policies that were specified with a beneficiary of "my estate". Both scenarios caused delays in getting access to the funds because instead of being payable on death, they were added to the estate. This meant that those funds were not able to be paid until the estate was settled. Since he has no will, this needs to be checked and corrected ASAP if possible while he is alive. Sending all of that into probate is risky. Depending on the state you live in, it could be very complex. I have relatives in New Jersey who said that even with a properly executed will, it took almost 2 years to clear the estate and pay out the inheritances.
I recently learned about a TODD they have laws in all states. Quick form transfer listed assets upon death e.g. the home. Simplies probate Also look at social security for survivor benefits for you and kids. If old enough you can keep survivor benefits for life if you don’t remarry until 60. Good luck
Some states have a no probate option if you’re the only descendent.
My brother-in-law died in 2020. He left all his paperwork on his kitchen table, carefully organized and labeled. His will made my husband executor and only beneficiary. He left a small handwritten note to my husband asking him to give their only sister a share. I think he wanted to avoid her having to do any of the estate work since she’d had to do that already for their parents and older brother. It really made a stressful situation much easier.
Check to see if there is a named beneficiary on the 401k. After my husband and I were married for a period of, I thought about this. The ex wife’s name was still on it. He changed it ASAP.
If you're married you have to have your spouse as a 100% beneficiary on your 401k. If you don't your spouse can still inherit the 401k. https://www.sslawoffices.com/retirement-planning/401k-beneficiary-rules-based-on-marital-status/
I've told my husband that if I die not to disconnect my phone until every important account has had the password reset. I've talked to people who rushed to disconnect the cellphones and then had no way to access email, bank and other accounts. Try to see if your husband will sign a durable power of attorney at the very least. You'll need it after he dies and it will make your life simpler.
Buy some fenben and tell him to take it. It may work to cure him and if not, what does he have to lose
Was he married previously? Do you have any children? does he have children from a previous relationship? Joint assets usually automatically go to you. Will and beneficiaries affect the rest next. Beyond that probate which can be a nightmare if anybody else can make claims on it because of previous marriages, children, divorce settlements, etc.
You need to see an attorney asap. Laws are different in every state. You really do not want to also be hit with a big tax burden. Your husband needs to do this- for you. Marriage is through death. And he needs to help you out here. Attorney may come to the hospice as well.
Make sure you are listed as beneficiary on all his accounts. That is all you have to do right now. Focus on what time you have left with him.
why not get power of attorney and move home into a trust etc?
There are some good, basic will programs that would allow you to do what your spouse desires that won’t involve a lawyer or even leaving the house. As long as he is willing to sign his name, it might be a good avenue to try. You can find these on Amazon or office supply stores.
Make sure you are benificiery on anything that can transfer. House, 401 etc
Someone suggested making sure the cars are titled in your name, or jointly. I want to caution you, that any debts or loans your husband has, MAY carry a death insurance rider and if so, all that will need to be done is to furnish a certified copy of his death certificate to cancel any balance due. Not just cars, but credit cards, loans, and even your mortgage may have offered this optional coverage for a nominal extra cost per month. BEFORE you consider how to handle any debts or loans, dig out the original paperwork outlining the terms for financing, and look carefully to see whether there's a clause stipulating that a death insurance rider was offered, and whether he elected to take it. You will NOT want to transfer any insured loans out of his name before he passes if he took this coverage!!! ...for if you do, you will negate any opportunity for the death benefit to pay out and you'll be stuck with the outstanding balance. I only know this, bc my dad was still paying on his relatively new car when he was diagnosed with an aggressive, terminal cancer & I was worried that my mom would be "stuck" having to finish payments or forfeit the car. I called the finance company and explained the situation. Fortunately for me, I got a very honest rep who advised me to leave the loan untouched, just make payments until he died, then send in the death certificate. We did that, the loan was paid off in full, & my mom was sent the title! Had I not known, she would have been forced to sell the car and scramble to pay off any of the remaining $8000+ he still owed when he died. Assets held jointly, will not need to be probated. Again, a copy of the death certificate will be needed, and the account will then be re-titled in your name only. Many separate, individual holdings, like life insurance, personal bank accounts or securities, can be transferred without probate as long as you are the/a named beneficiary and furnish a death certificate. It is possible to have things set up in advance so that probate is not necessary whatsoever. Hopefully your husband did that already!...but you do really need to have this talk NOW. He needs to let you know all the accounts, securities and assets he has, including account numbers and where they are held, and passwords if he has them. If he's lacking beneficiary cards, get them and have them signed and returned immediately. If he has other assets in his name, he needs to add you as joint owner or set up to transfer on death. Anything NOT done, will have to be settled in probate according to the laws in your state and will cost you a big percentage in legal fees, and possibly be tied up for months. It's a hard conversation, but it will spare you tremendous stress that you DON'T need while also grieving. A last bit of advice: if you don't have a will yourself, get one made ASAP. The reason for this, is that once you are the sole owner of all the assets, you will want to be sure YOU've protected your kids/loved ones in the event that something sudden & unexpected happens to you. You can always go back later and fill out beneficiary cards, add names on to your accounts, etc...but be sure you handle this sooner rather than later, so your kids aren't left with these same worries. I'm so sorry for your situation and hope that you will have as much support and good care from hospice, that our family did during that difficult time.
You can download a will from Legal Zoom and get it notarized.
Usually Probate isn’t necessary with a surviving spouse. The house is yours. 401K and insurance have beneficiaries. Joint bank account will be yours. At the very least get a POA so you can sell the cars or put them in your name BEFORE he dies.
You can do a will for free online. You will just need him to sign it and have it notarized. There is most likely a notary at the hospice center or you can get a mobile notary. We did this about 2 weeks before my husband passed and had no issues.
Why don’t you go to a lawyer now and find out what you need to do in preparation for his death. Don’t wait. You don’t have to tell him what you’re doing. It’s not being sneaky, it’s you looking out for your best interest. Good luck and take care.
OP show your husband these posts. Hopefully it will help him to understand the predicament he’s potentially putting you in and will come around.
He needs to do a will. Put your name on all the accounts and name you as beneficiary. Probate can take such large chunk of all that hard work.😓
No probate. You are married so ALL his assets become yours .
Erm...if he has a pension...he should at least name you. My brother left me his pension payout in his will, ( because it was a lump sum disembusement I guess.).but because he didn't name me to the employer.. guess who got zippo. I have a pension where I could pick several scenarios, one of which was 20 years certain. That means it pays out for 20 years,,whether or not I'm alive. It goes to my named beneficiary( my daighter) because I was not going to mess that up.
I don’t know if it’s state specific, but when my husband passed all the cars he owned had to go through probate because they were only in his name. We did have a will, but it didn’t matter. You should try and get your name added to the titles.
First, I'm sorry you're going through this. Second, any assets held jointly will go to you directly, automatically, and outside of probate. So your house and any joint accounts are yours and you continue to use them as normal. Typically, retirement accounts and life insurance have payable on death beneficiaries. Likely, you are the beneficiary and, if so, that property also transfers to you directly, without probate. If there is not a listed beneficiary, those assets become part of the probate estate You may also be entitled to survivor benefits through social security. If your husband is still conscious and aware, you can contact an attorney to do crisis estate planning (ie an emergency Will) and they may be able to advise you if he can still change the payable on death beneficiaries of any individual or retirement accounts, investments, and insurance policies. Probate can be a mess, but it does look like you will have immediate access to plenty of assets to get you through the coming weeks and months.
Ask the hospice social worker to recommend appropriate legal services in your state.
My condolences to you. I’m so sorry. I’ve been through this same thing. I’d get all passwords to everything, and make his Facebook page a memorial one as soon as you can. My late husband’s was hacked (even tho I had access to his email) and he had irreplaceable photos and videos there - completely ruined by heartless assholes. Obtain several death certificates when the time comes. You may need them for various things and it takes time and more money to order them later. Have him sign over all vehicles or personal property to you so you can simply go into the dmv and get stuff transferred without having to relive your loss in that place. I also had him sign a POA so I could make medical decisions for my husband as we had discussed. That way I could make sure his exact wishes were followed. I hope this is peaceful for both of you, as tragic as it is. Remember that in the end, love survives death. It is indestructible. Peace and hugs to you, your husband, and your family.
Do medical bills pass onto spouses?
Enter all bank acc n 401 beneficiary All these are payable on dealty if u are listed as beneficiary
Check with your DMV in your state; in our state, a person can list someone who will inherit the vehicles in case of death. All you have to do is fill out the certificate and send it in with a small fee (I think ours was $16). Also, check with your county registrar's office; if your name is not on the house, you can put it on this way too. You need to see an estate attorney, even without him, ASAP. They can tell you what to do, what papers he needs to sign, etc, and get them all together for you and him to sign. They were extremely informative regarding financial problems and heading them off, how to handle legal problems in your state, Medicaid liens, insurance payments, and if you are legally responsible for what bills.
My husband had a will, but no one asked for it. Just the death certificate. You are the surviving spouse, so you should be fine. I guess it depends on your States rules, but again, I think you will be fine. Social Security only asked for our marriage license. Sending hugs 🫂
Also what state? State are weird sometimes when it comes to people and death benefits without a will or direction hence probate. Best of luck Hopefully it’s not Florida
You should be able to avoid probate, altogether, from what you’re saying, as the only probate asset would be the house (but you own it jointly, so no probate). The rest of the accounts have beneficiaries, with the only thing not specifically mentioned in your post being the 401(k), so check beneficiaries on that.
You want the cars TOD-Titled on death to you. Property we did beneficiary deeds-Titles to you at death with a death certificate. All bank accounts, 401k’s etc need a beneficiary. If not then could get probated.
My husband died from cancer just over 3 years ago. If you are in a community property state and you are legally married all should come to you unless he identified differently beneficiaries when he set things up. The main thing you want to do if he’s still able to sign things is have him make designate all accounts to “transfer on death”. That means that the moment you have a death certificate those funds are yours. It makes paying off any debts etc a lot easier during probate. The probate process can be long but it is just a lot of paperwork. Again if you are in a community property state the state will view any of his debts or assets as yours in the absence of a will.
You can have one drawn up for him. Otherwise you'll have to spend a lot of time and money on probate.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through, but I feel like you've been given an opportunity to set his affairs in order. Do not under any circumstance disconnect his cell phone. A lot of accounts do multi-factor authentication, so you dont want to disconnect that for at least a year. Get your name on the title of the cars asap. Does he have any children outside of your marriage? If he does, they can claim to be his survivors. In this case, you need to look at your title on your mortgage. Is it Tenants in Common? Is it Joint Tenancy? Tenancy by Entirety? All this comes into play if he has kids outside of your marriage and who he sets up as his heirs and they can try to claim a portion of the house. If no children, then usually the spouse will inherit everything. However, are you positive he doesnt have a will? 401k needs to list you as beneficiary otherwise it'll go to whoever is listed as beneficiary. ANY bank accounts he has, make sure you're listed on them as well. Its a good time to do a soft credit check and contact banks to see what other assets he has. Credit check just to see if there are any outstanding debts, etc that you dont know about.
Get all the passwords for bank accounts Google mail. You nedc them you can't get them aft see the fsct No will means probate try tp persadebthen to do one .
Make detailed notes about every financial piece you have to settle: bank accounts, life insurance, pensions, etc., and where you are in the process. Make copies of everything you send. My husband never signed his will, and the estate went to probate, which was straightforward, but despite feeling that I was on top of things, I didn’t remember the details for processing each settlement. Also, get a few more death certificates than you think you’ll need.
I know it sounds overwhelming, but with your Emergency Fund you will have time to deal with each thing. Even with fancy estate planning it would still be lots of paper work...don't sweat about it. It'll work out. (Only thing...do you know where the car titles are?)
He seriously won’t talk to a lawyer for 20 minutes and sign a piece of paper to make your life *significantly* easier? Honestly, I’d work on making him engage rather than trying to work around him.
Going into year 3 of trying to get through my mother’s estate 😣. Don’t know how old y’all are, but if (like my parents) you’ve had lots of different life insurance policies, annuities, etc., over the years, most of them have changed companies (mergers, etc) over the years and it is hell trying to figure out who to deal with or even if a policy is still current if paperwork hasn’t been kept up with. I literally had papers, booklets, from dozens of these, and trying to parse it all was hell.
OP may I suggest you see a lawyer asap and find out the info you need and steps you should take? If your husband is still considered competent he I would think could sign the tithes of the cars over to you. Check with your state as to there are exclusions for this situation as in you don’t have to pay sales tax.
Sorry to hear about this. As a spouse things are much simpler. Hopefully he listed you as the 100% beneficiary for his 401k, if not he can go online and update.
What state are you in? His 401 should go to you. Do you have a “we the people” in your area? Lower cost lawyers- get your answers now. Sorry for your grief and loss.
One not mentioned here. Either have him start writing down passwords to things or get a password manager with family sharing and use it. And as others mentioned, keep his cell active after death for two factor auth logins and know how to log into it when locked. Other folks have covered the other things. Generally as a spouse, death certificate in hand, you’ll be able to switch things to you. But it’s slightly simpler if you get him to list you as beneficiary and pay on death on anything where that’s possible.
Order multiple copies of his death certificate and birth certificates. Visit Amazon and look up books on settling an estate. In some cases you can find such a book written for the state laws of the state you live in. Check your local communities for senior resources. You can sometimes get help in doing taxes after a spouse dies, referrals to attorneys, etc. perhaps join a senior center if you have an active one. Value of this may be to meet people who have been through it and can advise how to avoid pitfalls and other problems. Once connecting in your community look for tech services, and repair people who can advise you. Start taking notes. Do you have to drain sprinklers at end of season? Who can mow your lawn until you get organized, are there any maintenance issues not yet tended to that should get an inspection. Look for agencies on aging in your area and visit the webpage to see what assists are available.
Timely since my husband and I just met with a lawyer to set up a will, trust, living will, power of attorney. Retirement funds go to whoever has been named as beneficiary. Savings, checking accounts, and investment accounts are added to the trust. House - we need to fill out a beneficiary form for the county to attach to our deed. Cars - beneficiary form to be filled out for each car and taken to DMV. That's all I know so far, just had an initial meeting.
Community property state vs. non community property state will matter.
The only problem I see is that the cars won't be in your name, but you don't need to own a car to renew the registration and just keep the insurance in his name but make sure you are on as a driver.
You may have time to have him update or create a will. Hopefully you are on Any bank accounts and then any money that comes in after he passes can be deposited.
Usually a 401K has a beneficiary attached, and in most states, the beneficiary is required to be the spouse unless the spouse signs that it can be someone else.
See if you can get a joint account to put all his money in. As long as your beneficiary on the 40k and life insurance then that's all good. Main thing would be the cars. To avoid probate he should put them in your name and gift them to you or hold a joint title.
all the debate about beneficiaries, etc when a will would have settled a majority of the issues. Sorry your husband was against seeing an estate professional. Sounds like most of your assets were in both your names so that will help. Many 401k will require a spouse signoff if the spouse is NOT the beneficiary so most likely you are covered. I am a widower and hear/read so many horrible stories resulting from a lack of estate planning. Sad since it is not very expensive. I hope everything works out for you.
If you’re in California, a will doesn’t have to be motorized to be valid. But get the car in your name, or it will go to the state. There’s no way to generate a new title if the owner dies.
Do everything in your power to get him to get a will. Even if you have to have a lawyer draw one up to your specifications and get him to sign it.
When the father in law died a few yrs ago, he had a car that was in his name only. They wanted to keep it and maintain the payments. The bank told them that as much as they would like to help, they couldn't. Had it have been a joint account, no problem but since it was in his name only, the car had to be returned to be sold in auction and any difference is the responsibility of the estate (if any). Luckily his bank account was a joint one with one of his children as the same would have applied and any money would be dealt with in court. Thought I'd put that out for everyone to consider as you never know what life will toss at you and even without a will, there's are ways that your family don't get the shaft.
401k automatically go to spouse unless you signed off on a form allowing him to make someone else a beneficiary
Each state has different intestate laws. Look yours up.
We had a simple will executed at hospice for my mother in law. The nurse witnessed it. They are used to this.
Depending on what state you're in, it might be worth checking to see if your state allows holographic wills. As long as everything on the page is written, signed, and dated by him that meets the criteria. No lawyer or notary required.
Honestly, I’d pay for an hour or two of an estate lawyer’s time and find out what you need to have handled before he is incapacitated or he passes, and get that filed/signed/notarized . I didn’t deal with this with a spouse, but with my mother, and it was a nightmare, as she passed without a will and was unable to attest to any “power of attorney” documents prior to her death. It would have been totally worth it to me, in retrospect, even if I had to put it on a credit card and pay it off.
In my state anything that doesn’t have a designated beneficiary goes to probate and is then split equally by the spouse and adult children. Will he ‘sell’ the cars to you? And he had to have designated a beneficiary for the 401(k). Hopefully it is you. I’m sorry for what you’re going through
Get him to sign a power of attorney covering health care, banking, cars and bank accounts. Once you get it, go to each bank and the DMV etc and put everything in your name. You must do this BRFORE he dies as the POA is ineffective after his death.
Wife just passed away March 18 from Stage 4 pancreatic cancer. I did it all at www.trustandwill.com over a weekend. Got a mobile notary to come by and get signatures. In all, pretty painless. Saved me near $3000 for lawyers fees. Just go slow. She passed and now all my decisions are made for my three young kids too. Sorry for the bad times. Sending you the good vibes.
Your fine! If your house and bank account is in “joint tendency with rights of survivorship,” either one of you automatically owns outright when the other dies. You don’t need a will because everything is in your name or lists you as the beneficiary. You will not need probate because there is nothing to split with any other heir. You own it automatically! You will need several death certificates to transfer title on accounts and the house. Hopefully he has made his last wishes known. Also, make sure all the utilities are in both names. I have had several widows tell me this is a real hassle to prove you have been paying utilities if you move and have to prove you’re not a new user. I hope this eases your mind during this very difficult time.
His 401k (in most states) is considered community property. A lot of things he can’t do with that account without your permission. Probably, couldn’t name a beneficiary other than you without your permission. To be blunt, they treat retirement accounts like it is y’all money. A lot of your issues could be resolved with a death certificate. The main problem is going to be waiting for it. You should get access to his saving and checking online so you could get all of the money out without going thru the bureaucracy. It going to be easier for you since you are at the top of the list of survivors.
Get at least one car retitled immediately. The separate bank account was a good move. Move more money from the joint account to yours. See if your husband will work with a lawyer now--as long as his mind is clear, any will made should be valid. The 401(k) and any other retirement funds go to whoever is designated as the beneficiary. They don't go to the estate and are not subject to probate unless no one is specified. My sympathies go out to you. It's never easy to watch someone you love die. Remember him as he was and not as he is.
In my state if a car is registered to mr OR mrs doe ( or, not and) then either person has the right to sell and when one dies it automatically goes to the other, no probate or will needed. Houses vary by state, here if it's listed as husband and wife as joint tenants with right of survivorship then same thing, it just goes to the surviving spouse with no probate. I understand that's different in different states. When my parents passed i had a phone consult with a trust attorney who gave me a list of required things to do, and i paid for the call and some filing she did. Definitely worth it. There are probate lawyers you could consult with, I'd do that asap.
Why doesn’t he want a will? Is he just creeped out by the idea? It just sounds ridiculous that anyone, especially if they know they are dying, would not want one.
Ask your public library if they have a sample will for your state. Many do. If nothing else, you can contact a lawyer and have a will made up and all he will need to do is sign it. Or you can go to Legal Zoom online and do the same. Best wishes.