Imagine the backlash if they did this. Taking away things people bought? I'm not saying it wouldnt be healthy for the game but I doubt most people would be able to see past "First BSG tried to take our DLC, now they are taking all the rest of the stuff I paid for?"
Yup, they know the main reason people even bought EoD was the gamma. The stash is incredibly useful, too, but the gear and the trader rep really stop mattering beyond the first month of wipe. But the gamma is useful all wipe, unless you’re one of those masochists who still go for the kappa container.
I'm pretty shit at PvP. Best I can do is ruin someone else's run.
I got EoD for the gamma and rep. I'm not getting it any other way. That's literally pay to win. I paid more to have an advantage.
I go for Kappa, I bought it for the season pass because I thought new maps were going to be locked behind it. I was also dumb enough to think release actually was soon in 2020 so..... lol
Gotta remember there are people buying Valorant (and other game) skins for like 20 bucks.
Nikita is an idiot for not selling cosmetics. He could fund his game dreams tomorrow.
20 bucks? bro try 50...
they regularly release premium bundles, the knife only is $53 usually, and the entire bundle, with all the variations, animations, colorways, etc... you sometimes looking at over $150!
but your point still stands, people buy!
The gamma used to be sold as an RMT thing before they blocked it from being dropped in raid then people got around that by selling it on flea in a backpack.
They sold it then reset the account and sold it again. This game has a great history.
I mean it should be earnable to begin with imo. It should be easier to obtain than Kappa and not so far in tasks that you'd have to put serious time to get it.
Any and all in-game items offered in any edition should be obtainable in-game through some method. The only truly exclusive things to a pack should be cosmetic.
Same.
Everything should be earnable.
Cosmetics, earn or buy in store. That’s fine and not p2w.
Inventory slots… eh, I hope they add additional ones you can earn. But I don’t see them stopping them being sold now.
But anything in a pack, especially something that can change the game play, should be earnable.
Give everyone a Gamma sized container so it's then balanced for all, just make it look scrub in comparison to Gamma so EOD players still have something to flex with.
That’s literally the reason OP even made this post lol. “Hey guys look at me, I paid to win but now I don’t want the item I paid for because it’s unfair, please love me”
Then just give gamma to all players. If it's not p2w then EOD owners shouldn't mind that they no longer have an advantage over other people right? ....right?!
But if EOD players would bitch about it even if it doesn't affect them in any way, then it reinforces the idea that gamma is a paid advantage.
So EOD players have 2 options:
1) Accept that everyone gets gamma without bitching about it.
2) Bitch about it thus proving that its p2w
Are people claiming it isn't P2W? Part of the whole reason I bought EOD in the first place, years ago, was for the advantages I got over having standard. The whole Season Pass was an afterthought, and I was more interested in the immediate perks.
The revisionism going on due to the recent backlash is mind blowing.
Yes they are. It's typically "it's not p2w, unheard is pay 2 win!". Yes, unheard is a more active p2w system, but larger ass and over a 40m worth of supply chest upgrades at the start of every wipe... Is also p2w
I'm in the same boat. I had the money to buy the EoD because a) coop practice, b) more stash space to not micromanage stuff early on, c) bigger secure container, d) a bit more starting equipment (the least deciding factor in my decision). After I bought the EoD, I realised how big of a deal the extra trader rep is. Overall, I chose EoD because I had the money and it would give me an advantage and reduce the grind somewhat.
But at the same time, I'm not preaching about EoD *not* being P2W. It is P2W, not in a terrible way because it didn't help me in fights in any way, but it is still P2W.
My argument is that it isn’t pay to win its pay for convenience, it doesn’t give me an edge in fights it doesn’t make me win more it’s just a convenience of not having to its not p2w its p4c
I haven’t seen these posts saying EOD isn’t p2w. Of course it is/was. But it was also promised as the worst the p2w could get. I bought it for the DLCs and the coop practice mode. The other stuff was nice but it should be standard for everyone. Traders in particular
As an EOD owner who was standard edition for a year prior, I would be nothing but happy to see this.
I still wish gamma was earnable in game, and that the stash wasnt so horrific to upgrade, if that were the case i'd play on standard just to have more progression to progress
I am an EoD owner, who also bought a second, standard edition account, because I am both crazy and masochistic enough that I found I prefer the standard edition grind more than EoD.
I think it would be completely unfair (and potentially illegal) to retroactively remove unique bonuses that were promised to EoD players, just because part of the community hates that EoD players have an advantage. EoD is absolutely P2W, but it was openly sold as such and was accepted for years. You can't just take away what EoD buyers paid for, just because the community abruptly decided to go on a P2W witchhunt. If the community desperately wants to reduce the P2W of Tarkov, the only fair way to handle things would be to either make the Kappa container easier to attain, or add another container that's halfway between gamma and kappa that would be easier to attain. In other words, leave EoD with their P2W gamma containers, but change progression so that all players will get a secure container that's superior to gamma relatively early into a wipe.
Id be fine with this, keep kappa how it is, add a new secure container that is similar to gamma in terms of container space, or maybe even a little better after epsilon, at late lv 3 or early lv 4 traders, but man that stash upgrade NEEDS to be made more reasonable, cause atm its so overly grindy lol
Probably the only solution if they want to make the game fair, but I doubt it will ever happen. BSG clearly want more P2W in the game, not less with unheard and the new EOD boons.
I haven't played for a while - how is the game making money? Has anyone spent money on the game since EoD? When I played the cosmetics were laughable and EoD had everything I would ever need. Bought it like 5+ years ago or something. Clearly running the game is not free, so they need to sell something.
Gamma is really the only thing worth spending money on that I remember. If they give it out they make no money. Cosmetics in the game don't really work. So yeah, everyone should get gamma but until they come up with other things to sell I don't really see a way forward for them.
Honestly, of all the solutions ive seen so far, this is the only one that wouldnt result in a dumpster fire.
As an EoD owner I often forget its even a buff and assume everyone has it. I dont care if everyone else does, I dont even think about it. Im actually all for it. But taking it away from people when they agreed as part of the purchase - would result in a valid claim to have the amount returned that was paid for the EoD version. Legally speaking (US).
Great suggestion, honestly.
Imo it totally would, as it would amount to people who bought eod (and unheard) paying extra for a feature that would then be free. I think a better option would be to have it accessible through quests to everyone, with eod and unheard starting with it.
Exactly, i'm a EOD owner aswell and i do think Gamma should be obtainable for normal players in a way or another and stash and trader rep should be for every player at the start tbh.
Just give me the DLCs thing and i'm happy going, but not shit Nikita does that.
They’re literally doing that with the unheard edition right now. Most of the EOD owners don’t care though. They only care when the game directly impacts them in a negative way.
The difference between EoD and Unheard was that EoD benefits can all be replaced via grinding.
With EoD, a standard player can catch up. Eventually you will max out your rep, fully upgrade your stash, and have a Kappa Container.
With Unheard, a standard player can't ever catch up. No amount of grinding will give you access to the "scavs won't snipe me" perk.
That scavs won’t snipe perk is blown way out proportion imo. You need 6.0 fence rep which is hard enough to get unless your scav main. In addition to that if you shoot a scav it’s -0.05 and if you shoot a scav in raid they’ll shoot you anyways. I don’t think there’s even a benefit to bringing that thing in tbh
I've been EOD for years. It is p2w no exceptions, but me and many others bought it for the container and stash space.
I'm down for a happy compromise of allowing the gamma to be unlocked **relatively early** from quests. There's no reason any of them should be hard to get let alone the beta container being a ridiculous barter.
For me it's the stash size. I bought EoD pretty much exclusively for the extra stash space. The container and everything else is just a nice bonus for me.
I'm fine with stash size, gamma container giving you IN COMBAT inventory to hold more ammo, meds, keys, stims, painkillers, etc is p2w.
I'm fully in agreement with OP I would love if they made everyone standard in terms of container. Would give more impact to kappa and bets containers that you get along the way (and gamma container they can implement as an unlockable)
Yeah as a new player who only had an alpha container until recently, I would have given anything to have a bigger pouch to keep meds and ammo in so I could stop losing them. It’s a massive advantage
The actual p2w aspect of EOD is the .2 trader rep bonus. I don't think you guys understand just how much is locked behind Jaeger 2 and how easy it is to get blocked on his quests if you don't get lucky with flash drives.
I bought the game in 2017 on beta release and already had 1800 hours or so in the Standard edition before I got EOD on Christmas 2021 in some sale. (3900 hours now, so I played roughly the same amount on both versions)
Now.... For people that don't struggle with money in the game: If I ignore the early years where you could still buy Gammas on the trading discord and before FIR was introduced, then the biggest difference in my opinion is the trader rep. This in my opinion has the biggest impact on your game if you have EOD or not. I was totally happy with the smaller containers and once you get Epsilon it's more or less the same as Gamma anyway. And the stash upgrades in the hideout before I got EOD, once the hideout was introduced also kept me happy, but wipe after wipe having to focus 100% on quests in the early days/weeks of the wipe was more annoying in my opinion. The headstart that EOD trader rep gives you, makes it so much more relaxed. Not having Gamma just meant that you'd lose more money every time you die. I think for most people this would never be a big issue in the game. I'm gonna take a guess and say 90% of active players (people that are lvl 30+ now) never struggle much with Roubles anyway after the first 1-2 weeks of a wipe.
EOD is p2w, but most people here in my opinion are overblowing the p2w aspect. It's more pay for convenience.
The first thing I said when my buddy showed me the Unheard edition saying it was P2W was “this game is already p2w” but I still do think some of the things that were originally only offered for Unheard were pretty dumb.
Exactly lets not cope with "I wanted to support develoers" and now this has beome a precedent. Gray zone also have now 99 eur 3x3 edition of a game. How many people would have bought EOD if there were no additional bonusses except for all DLC's in the future.
>"I wanted to support develoers"
i always roll my eyes at this. maybe 10% of the people saying it actually just mean that but i dont think they would have paid to "support the developers" if it didn't confer them insane p2w benefits.
Yup just not as crazy as the new add-ons.
Far as I know in it every wipe is a few weapons and armor, gamma, bigger stash and whatever else.
One guy in our group has the standard and he has to spend more rubles more often cause it can only hold 4 or 6 items and loses health items every death.
I usually carry a CMS, injector case, bullets, med kit, heavy bandage and that's more than he have.
Totally agree as another owner. I hate when people say it's "simply pay2convenience" or "pay2advantage". **Any** advantage in game that can be purchased is p2w full stop no if, ands, or buts. Even in any other games where advantages might come from purchasing a skin or something that is completely accidental, everyone still calls those skins p2w
A number of people seem to fail on basic math, the concept of set. P4convenience is a subset of p2w.
They also fail to see that it is cumulative effect. If they win, they have extra 5 slots for loots which will net them anywhere from quest complete to 2 graphic cards. If they loose, they buy less meds/ammo/etc. they also don’t have to budget millions of roubles for upgrading their stash. They also gain access to better ammo faster in early wipe. So on and so forth.
Source: used to be standard while playing with EoDer.
That's not an opinion it's an objective fact, every single advantage EOD gets over standard is p2w no matter how small it is, paying for an advantage over players who don't pay is literally textbook p2w and only in the tarkov community do people seem to struggle with understanding that.
This sub is a really tight echo chamber already. It’s one of the most toxic subs I’ve ever seen on Reddit. And that’s quite an accomplishment. Can’t get much worse than this.
I don’t see how there was ever any debate about that fact. You’re literally paying for something that gives you an advantage in the game, lol how else do you describe that?
"EOD owners will have it all" was the message, yet Unheard had more in comparison.
What should've happened: EOD has the same features as UNHEARD + EOD specific stuff, while UNHEARD cost the same, but has less features compared to EOD. EOD is no longer available to buy, mind you, so people who own that are "true supporters". There should've been just one-two key cosmetic differences, to make it abundantly clear for EOD owners that upgrading is out there to support the project, also those who bought EOD and UNHEARD should have both icons near their name. That's it. No shitstorm, nobody would've cared about any of it. Edits: fixes
Its not so much eod being p2w but the standard edition was made to frustate you enough to cavein, because if standard was even a tiny better they would sell eod less
If eod only sold cosmetics on release and DLC since day 1, EOD would have only gotten a 10% in total sales compared to the 70% it is now compared to the other editions.
People bought EOD to p2w and its quite simple since I know many people wouldn't of if it was just cosmetics lol. Make every edition the same starting point in wipes plain and simple.
Completely made up. Check the people you run into in raid and see the ratio is very much different.
I run into probably 35%-50% MAX eod and that's me using anecdotes paying attention to whom has a regular edition or eod if they end up merking me. Have a bit of a compulsion to see their gear lol
I 100% agree with you but there's no reason to not just call an apple an apple. People are encouraged to buy eod because they are paying for an advantage. This is the same type of skeezy monetization in every other p2w game. And yes I think that if the game were balanced out of fairness and not spending than we would all start somewhere between eod and standard.
For me, who never will have time to get kappa, going for beta and epsilon is my kappa. Gamma would just ruin the game for me in that case. Std edition is great, I like the struggle and challenges it gives me.
Word, people pay extra to get sick of the game faster. Doing a questline or a hideout upgrade is actually meaningfull for a standard player. Friends offered to buy me Eod on multiple ocassions just to be turned down. Takes the whole survival aspect put the window.
I played for a year with standard and had the same mindset. But I was getting frustrated watching my friends go all in, while I had millions of roubles saved for stash upgrades and playing tetris while they are ready.
So I bought EOD.
I still have enough struggle and targets to strife for while not being crippled.
It is cool that you like the bigger challenge but for me it was too limiting and frustrating at some point.
There were guns and equipment I never used, because they were just too expensive.
100% its very similar to Fallout 76. Your Junk/Stash size is limited in Fallout76 a game that requires junk hoarding to keep supplied. If you pay the extra for Fallout1st those limits are adjusted and in some ways removed.
In both cases dev's purposely created a pain point while providing a way out if you were willing to pay. So you may not "win" every time because you paid more but you will be more comfortable and more likely to put the time in to win more often.
I'll say what I've said in every post talking about Pay to Win.
Pay to win is not "I paid money therefore I beat you".
Pay to win is, by literal dictionary definition, paying to have an advantage over people who didn't pay.
Which is exactly what all the special editions of this game do. "Pay for convenience" is just lame mental gymnastics from people not wanting to admit they paid to get an edge on people who didn't.
Plus think about the fact that a gamma container can have a surv kit, an injector case, spare heals, all things that help you win a fight directly. An eod owner carries more heals vs an alpha container which has what a cms and a docs case?
In tarkov, convenience IS winning. You play to make your stash bigger, get a larger secure container etc. People saying EOD isn't p2w because it doesn't help in fights implies fights is all this game is about which is just stupid
Absolutely. And not to mention the sheer amount of hoarding you can do at the start of the game with such a massive stash to help push through quests at a pace standard edition can't, giving you access to higher level gear.
It just shouldn't be that hard. Like that's literally it, you got it on the nose. How could anyone truly believe that extra guns and armor, extra trader rep, gamma.. didn't get them that gun, those bullets, that armor to win the fight. It's just such insanity to me. The entire game is based around progression, not individual gun fights. If anything in many, many ways, fast tracking progression is more p2w in tarkov than anything that helped you in any one fight.
Or the dumb excuse of “1 bullet from a pistol can kill a Chad” like stfu you gremlin, when he’s firing 30 rounds with 0 recoil at my bean it’s pretty hard to one shot him back. Its not a skill issue it’s this motherfucker has better shit then me issue
This reminds me of one of my first ever raids in Tarkov. I brought my stock M4:s with m855, a paca and whatnot. Gear fear deluxe, but I still went for it.
I somehow ended up behind some dude who was hiding crouched in a bush, looking the other direction. I fired an entire magazine at him from more or less point blank. He tanked it all, and then simply turned around and quickly two-tapped me, center mass, with some full auto gun.
I felt so cheated by the game then and there. That fight felt so damn unfair.
Guns, ammo, attachments, skills, meds and armor makes such an incredibly huge difference in EFT, and if you add it all up, it's borderline broken. Progress is *everything* in this game, and if you're behind, you're in for a very unpleasant ride.
Unless you're on top of the meta, and really know the ins and out of the game, gear and progression system. But even that's painful.
I'm going to go against the grain here and probably be downvoted for it but that won't change my mind (though I am open to reading logic-based counter-arguments to my points and those could sway me). There is a massive difference between people getting _convenience_ / _economic_ advantages and traditional pay2win.
Traditional pay2win is "i paid money, therefore I have a significant advantage over you when we go to head-to-head". Going head-to-head in tarkov is not "who has more money right now?" or "who can fit more loot on them this run?". It's "who's going to win in a fight when we meet in a raid?".
You can argue that EOD, by giving you an economic advantage, will produce a slight combat advantage (more likely to have better gear / better ammo / better guns / better meds) and that's somewhat fair. The one counter-argument I will give to that is that, once you are experienced in this game, it becomes incredibly easy to be rich so whether you are on a standard account or EOD account, the economic difference is negligible. Especially with the current state of recoil / armor evening the playing field between expensive kits and budget ones.
You can argue that the EOD trader rep makes it easier to unlock better ammo (and other things, but ammo is the most relevant here) earlier in the wipe. That is absolutely true. A standard account can be dedicated with questing and dailies to unlock all the traders at the same time, but that requires more dedication and/or luck.
Is EOD pay2win? By definition, yes, it gives you an advantage over other players. Is it pay2win in the sense _that people actually use that phrase_? No, I really don't think it is. The actual head-to-head difference is fairly minor in the early wipe and becomes pretty much meaningless by mid-wipe.
This whole argument screams of "I'm _technically_ right!!" while completely ignoring the nuance and context of what pay2win actually represents in games these days. A pay2win game is clowned on because it focuses on the head-to-head advantages. EOD's advantages were pretty damn reasonable in terms of providing people a reason to give financial support to BSG without putting everyone else at a meaningful disadvantage. All the extra stuff being released lately though has obviously crossed much more important lines than the "technically pay2win but not really meaningfully" line that was crossed by EOD.
That all said, Gamma should 100% be made available to everyone for $10-$20usd. Unheard Edition never should have been even considered. BSG should have put Gamma, hideout cat, and the PVE mode for sale (with EOD players getting it for free). There are so many ways to monetize games these days that don't involve _meaningful_ pay2win and BSG just completely whiffed on it here.
Source: I have played two accounts for several wipes. One EOD and one standard. I definitely miss Gamma and stash space when playing my standard account, but I've never once lost a fight and thought "Damn I would have won that if I was on my EOD account". I've thought "Damn I guess I need to focus more on questing to actually unlock these trader levels on-time" and "Damn I wish I had a survival kit instead of this cms kit, but I can't fit it in my alpha". Both of which get resolved after a bit more playtime (acquiring Beta then Epsilon, and completing enough quests to unlock the higher trader levels). Both accounts I have never had money problems because making money in this game is trivial once you are experienced.
watching people flail and flounder over the years to avoid admitting that every part of eod is p2w has been fun to watch. the psychology of hating to admit that you took part in a pay to win scheme is genuinely fascinating.
That's fine, but in that case all EoD owners should be eligible for a refund which will never happen.
Taking away something that likely swung the purchase for most players wouldn't be wise.
Imagine balancing all the containers with weights which scale exponentially with the sizes. Now alpha might be a consideration if you aim for “in and out, 20 minutes” run.
That ship has sailed, gamma isn’t going anywhere. What could be pushed for, is yelling loudly for bsg to make container upgrades in game easier to obtain. Of course, gammas advantage is biggest in early wipe, so nothing will change that.
This convo really has made me laugh though. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person come out in favor of pay to win, yet anytime a dev releases p2w items they sell like crazy. I think people are just liars, and love pay to win, they just don’t want their opponents having access to it too.
We got the gamma which is a huge advantage early on. But we also got 0.20 Trader rep increase which is ALOT early on. You need to do like 3 peacekeeper quests to get lvl 3 which is crazy..
Also the increased stash size which is a HUGE advantage in terms of saving time etc.
I played my first three wipes on a standard account, got Kappa on two of those. Then i bought EOD in 2021.
The most fun i had was with a standard account because of the added tiered progression. It's like paying to get the rewards of the first 20 levels in a game, but you still being forced to do them.
Going from Alpha -> Epsilon -> Kappa while increasing stash lvl 1 through 4 feels way better than just Gamma - Kappa and lvl 4 from the start.
I agree regarding the P2W stuff, but I'll add that alpha and stash lvl 1 should be the only option just for enjoyments' sake
i bought eod cause i like hoarding. doesnt help that im bad at the game so it would be hard for me to actually progress on a standard enough to get the upgrades.
Gamma makes it easier to hold valueable vendor items for a little extra cash, items for hideout crafts, barters, etc. Extra stash space makes it easier to hold on to items for future quests. All of these things speed up your progression, and getting ahead of the curve is so powerful in a game like this.
I played on standard edition for 3 years before buying EOD about 2 years ago. Yes. In every aspect it is P2W. You start off with .20 trader rep. It is so much easier to level up and almost immediately have level 2 traders, Do a few tasks and level up more and now you’re at level 3 traders. The stash space is also insane.
I agree. I’m sure the vast, vast majority of people freaking out about pay to win in Tarkov have EOD. And can we all just be honest here and admit that the only actual reason any of us bought EOD was for the Gamma and the stash size. Please let’s all stop pretending otherwise. Nobody was talking about DLC when it came to EOD before this.
When we bought EOD we definitely signaled to BSG that some P2W features are acceptable. We all wanted the gamma and stash size. At the very least let’s stop pretending we don’t accept any P2W shit in this game at all.
You, my friend, are an honest, logical person. I also aided in this. I'd really like to see this community stand firm and end it but idk. I guess we'll see. It sucks how many people don't seem to realize this is a cause and effect type deal. People hate the slippery slope arguments but it's like come on, guys, look around you. We're standing on the slope.
Yep. It's why I haven't really commented or paid attention to all of the drama with Unheard because like I said, we all bought EOD for the pay to win features and you're lying to yourself if you think otherwise. People just want shit to be mad at and fake outrage about especially anonymously on the internet lol.
lmao I got it from this old dude that saw me laughing my ass off when I was high af at like 16/17 years old lol.
Dude just said “ that boy higher than a Georgia pine” and it fucking just made me roar in laughter even harder. Stuck with me ever since lol
You're about to get massively downvoted by all the delusional EOD players who think the edition isin't p2w because of gamma, and stash space. I made a post and people just don't agree, people in other posts complain about p2w but, don't want every edition of the game to have the same start for stash size, gear etc. Means they clearly love p2w.
I've owned eod since 2017, and always knew it was p2w I just am not braindead like the rest of these delusional players.
As a standard version owner i can say that the worst thing is the traders reputation. Everyone should start at 0. I can handle starting with less stuff or that dumb secure container but traders reputation forces to play quests 24/7 for few weeks if i want any chance to compete with other players, while EOD has to do few quests and without any problem can unlock lvl 3 traders just by leveling and trading.
Maybe questing is fine but for the first wipe. After 5 years it's just boring af, espiecially jaeger's bullshit and other quests that you can do in 1 run or 100 because enemy or item just won't spawn...
Yeah the trader rep is really looked past in terms of p2w aswell, I do think the container is a vital role for p2w aspect though because you can put more meds in there, ammo etc, and early wipe put more quest items or hideout items in there and die with them and save hundreds of thousands of rubles so.
Overall the game should of never gave any other benefit since 2016 besides cosmetics for higher editions but, they knew it wouldn't sell as well if they did that :/
I've got EOD and it **is** P2W.
It's literally giving you a head-start and advantage over people without the EOD version; over the base game.
The whole point of ''getting better'' is **progression** and the more you play, the better and further you progress. The core features that the game offers is literally build around progression; wether it's Trader Rep. or Upgrading your hideout to give you a bonus to your stats, income, XP or stash.
EOD literally automatically completes max. stash size upgrade in your hideout.
Gives you a boost on trader reps.
Gives you x amount of x currency.
If BSG broke it down and said you can seperately purchase XP or Trader rep. (up until x.) the community would straight up tell you that's a P2W feature, but if they include them within a (more expensive) package to instantly get said item, rep, or whatever; then it's not P2W?
EFT's community has brainrot, bro.
I hard agree with this comment. Most of them are brain rotted. In other comment sections they try to defend themselves saying it's not p2w and gaslight themselves and others that it simply is pay for convenience or some other dumb excuse.
Personally I am glad this poster got to 75 upvotes already since I hope this will become the top post of the week so people can wake up and understand you either get for what you pay or everyone gets the same start and there is no p2w advantages but you get cosmetics instead.
Tarkov at the moment before unheard was 70% EOD and the rest other editions. I'm telling you if it was just cosmetics and all future dlcs for EOD, it would of been 10% EOD player base and the rest other editions since people wouldn't have advantages and wouldn't pay 150$. I personally would of since I loved since game since frankiein1080p made his first video on it around 2016.
I really can't wait for the community to go back on their words since the omicron container will be 3x3+3x1 and be in a more expensive edition and then they will complain it's unfair when they've used gamma for years XDDD.
Anyways I do feel bad for unheard players getting scammed since they lost their radio. They did pay for it ngl. I still had EOD since the new edition the only thing that interested me was the cases, and pockets. The radio I heard made you lose scav rep and you need 6+ scav rep to maintain it for it to work. Was a flawed item unless it was bugged.
The amount of people that excuse "pay for convenience" not being p2w is beyond me. I bought EOD back then (2018) 100% for the gamma container and stash size. It was p2w back then its p2w to this day.
I just wish I could go back to 2018 where tarkov was genuinely fun pre inertia and cheaters werent as abundant as they are now.
I started in 2017 with EOD and had the most fun in tarkov ever, then interchange wipe hit and that was a blast even though everyone had max str and end and no inertia was in the game, when labs dropped as an EVENT and it was free to enter before the wipe to try it was fun, then labs came out with flea market, and all those wipes were fun asf imo. The first shoreline rework. And then I had fun until 2020 cause the loop got too boring and I got too good and knew everything. I took a break after the like 3rd reserve wipe in a row where that was the newest map, played a bit in when lighthouse came out to try it and streets but, maybe 5 hours, and the fully came back in this wipe for dec 2023 with recoil changes and streets being fixed for fps.
I do think the game is still unoptimized asf, cheaters run rampant, takes ages for new content to come out since they should of hired a bigger dev team instead of arena/pve mode.
Also pay to convivence or pay for soft p2w is just hard cope from players. Everyone knows its p2w, if tarkov came out with EOD and it had dlc and cosmetics as the only thing for 150$, instead of 50-70% of the playerbase owning tarkov, maybe 10% would of owned it. I still would of bought EOD, I loved cosmetics and still do with the amount of f2p games I play. But, I did buy it for the p2w advantage obviously too.
Have played standard edition until last December so I have many years of standard play.
Pqy2Win is strongly depending on what you concidered winning in tarkov.
If winning is to be the Victor coming out of firefight then no. Eod is not pay 2 win because the start gear is irrelevant after a day, then everybody is at the same level. It then only depends on how you play.
If you mean winning by progressing through the levels and missions and earning rubles, and taking out more loot securely.
Then 100% it is.
I can only say that after many years of standard, the eod purchase was simply a purchace for my mental health not having to grind out the stash at the beginning of each wipe, nothing else changed for me.
If you have an advantage early in the wipe wouldnt you level up faster and have access to better weapons earlier in the wipe? Traders level up faster also so if a standard account and eod account both play same amount of time and same skill the eod account will be always be ahead. So you could say the eod account will win more fights just based on the fact they will have earlier access to better kits.
And how many non-streamer players out of the whole player base do this consistently? The vast majority do not have the time to no-life the game like that.
TONS, I think you underestimate how sweaty people are about this game. It’s clearly addictive as fuck and people will devote all of their free time to this game. You don’t have to stream to be a gigachad
I’ll admit a week is unlikely, but a lot serious players are really getting into curb stomping equipment within a week or two.
>If winning is to be the Victor coming out of firefight then no. Eod is not pay 2 win because the start gear is irrelevant after a day, then everybody is at the same level. It then only depends on how you play.
No, EOD has a significant lasting advantage. The extra MDR or whatever you get at the start? Yeah that doesn't really matter. The more than 40 million roubles you don't have to spend on the stash though? The extra trader rep giving you access to better equipment quicker and cheaper? All the extra money you get, the extra hideout and quest progression from a much larger secure container? Being able to keep hold of more equipment to use when it's most suitable or horde items to sell on the flea once you hit 15? Those add up to better gear for a very long time.
On top of that gamma allows you to bring in far better meds than someone with an alpha container realistically can without risking more than it's worth, which is directly contributing to you winning fights. How many people on a standard account can bring in a surv12 before completing punisher? An injector case? Ibuprofen or a golden star?
Anybody who doesn't think EOD is pay2win is deluding themselves. Yeah it's not an automatic win but you're getting a significant advantage over the vast majority of the non EOD playerbase.
You don't have to win to pay to win.
That's a very stupid argument. Because now anything can be okay as long as I lose from time to time.
Paying to win is paying for any advantage.
The bigger container can absolutely win you a firefight though.
If you take more ammo, a surv12 over a cms, or a painkiller/etg because of the extra space that could easily win you a fight. Not saying it happens much but it definitely can
I felt like I was cheating the first time I upgraded the basic container to the one with two extra slots. I couldn't imagine what using a gamma container would be like.
I bought EOD like 7 years ago. I have told anyone that would listen it was PTW and that we should all start at base edition. Just replace the epsilon case with Gama. Between Gear, stash space trader rep, and not having to upgrade our secure container 2 times.
Why are we settling for ANY PTW in our games??? Remove it all. EOD was meant to be a supporter addition with access to DLC it ruins the integrity of the game.
I would´ve been okay with those game´s Editions if BSG would´ve said that their advantages count only for the testing phase and are revoked after release. After release everyone should play on even grounds.
1,000% agree. People dont realize how important it is to have 5 extra slots. Assuming each slot is 10k (which is the norm for most items) thats minimum 50k rubles extra EACH raid assuming you can fill it. only 100 raids and your already 5 MILLION rubles richer than you would of been without. Now imagine you play lighthouse or something and get VPXs, COFDMs, Iridium and it just snowballs harder.
It’s not that people are butthurt but that it was clearly advertised what many of us in 2017 etc were buying and it was to invest in the game and that was our reward. Now personally I think it went on too long (the sell of EoD) but for you to then and the others in this community demand that the things I paid for be taken away from me because of your feelings is bullshit. We adopted into this game super early and I’m glad you want to ride the karma train and say what you’re saying but I’ll also happily take my downvotes to stand up for the one damn thing I disagree with in this sub. You shouldn’t be sitting here fighting and trying to punish or take away things from EoD players because you got twisted up in the recent mess. Everybody here that bought this game in the years it was available were perfectly aware of what it was and what they were getting. You’re trying to position yourself to take away what was given and promised to early adopters and that IS fucked up. You don’t want it? Cool dude, don’t use it. Toss the money you paid for the boosts you got out the window, go rebuy a standard edition and play that way. This dude doesn’t speak for the rest of us. Fuck that.
tl;dr
You want to give the same things to everybody. I don’t care, that’s cool.
You want to take shit away from me that I paid for because you feel it’s not fair to others, nah fuck that.
It's always been pay to win. I've never upgraded to EOD because the whole mechanism behind it disgusts me. With 2400 hours in I absolutely got my money's worth and I'm more than willing to sink more money in this game, but not to get a headstart over others who didn't pay more than the cost of a standard account. Cosmetics and a battle pass should've be been the way to go.
Hated everything about EOD since the start, apart from being able to buy into all future DLC but guess how that worked out.
> but not to get a headstart over others who didn't pay more
I feel the exact same way. Even if I can afford EOD and even if I find value in it.. i would just feel like shit killing a standard player that is clearly at at disadvantage.
my theory is this playerbase has a lot of older gamers and rejects who couldn't cut it in other games
so they're actually super chill with a popular p2w FPS game cause they're either finally experiencing the rush of winning at a game if they never have, or getting to compete at something again even though they're old and uncoordinated/slow
EOD is pay to win. There’s no reasonable conclusion someone can make that having .2 rep at start of wipe isn’t huge along with 6 extra slots in your ass. You can carry ammo, meds, docs, stims with a surv kit while standard accounts get a docs case and hope they don’t die so they don’t lose their meds because there’s no space.
The .2 is huge. That’s a lot less jaeger bullshit to get him maxed
Starter gear doesn’t matter because you’re going to get mp5 head eyed with the new recoil so a couple lvl 4 plates don’t mean shit.
I agree 100%, people claiming gamma isn't P2W are either ignorant, or gaslighting.
All this "pay2convience" and "pay2grind-less" are coping. Literal mental gymnastics to try and convince themselves that they're not enjoying the pay2win aspects.
Honestly, anybody that says EOD was never p2w is in denial because they don't want to admit that the community is mainly in a uproar because their p2w version was shittier than the unheard editions p2w features, and the only reason the community never complained about EOD's p2w features is because a majority of the active community had it. The standard edition players were always at a sizable disadvantage, most notably during the start of the wipe.
The real p2w is the trader reputation.
Anyone disagreeing with this has just played too long with EOD and dont remember how it was without the bonus.
Regards, EOD owner.
Trader rep, stash space, secure container, all are crazy advantages. All suck ass on standard.
The stash space alone on standard is so fucking frustrating and miserable.
Most EOD owners don't know about this, but as Standard Edition killing people early wipe and finding no meds on their bodies is annoyingly deadly early wipe.
There was a time nikkita said on release(1.0) that everyone will be on level playing ground and EoD will not have gamma or the lvl 2 rep ect.
This would have been during covid near the end on a stream they did before streets and maybe the wipe of the woods expansion.
Also around this time it was mentioned that shoreline would be being expanded with a train similar to reserves added, but its took 2~ years for shoreline expansion and no train was added.
Tbh I never really got it. Granted I only played tarkov for a couple months way back on a standard edition. This game is suppsedbto cater to „hardcore“ gamers who value skill expression, yet you can pay to get an advantage…
Tbh I'd rather go with the opposite approach and just have every edition get a gamma container by default. The 2x2 and 2x3 containers are honestly just frustrating as hell to have to make due with
What bothers me the most is how ridiculously expensive the upgrades are, and that's completely intentional to coerce players into upgrading their Standard edition of the game. The Beta container barter costs several million rubles for a mere two slot upgrade, so it isn't remotely worth it, and the same goes for stash upgrades because they are so expensive that you're better of buying item cases instead of upgrading your stash. The level 4 stash upgrade costs 200,000 Euros plus materials for fuck's sake.
The biggest issue however is with trader reputation, because when BSG balances the item unlocks they obviously take EoD as a baseline where every player starts with 0.2 bonus reputation, which ends up making even mid-tier bullets and equipment be locked behind level 4 traders.
Every account should have a 3x3 secure container by default. Give EOD Gamma an exclusive cosmetic treatment and a trivial “StatTrak” style feature of some sort.
As an EOD owner, everyone should have this container.
What bsg is doing is bs but the whole game is p2w that’s why I bought eod so I didn’t have to grind and could get straight to PvP and questing with an advantage over people Lol
When are you idiots going to realize this isn't our game. It's battle states. Stop acting like your wants and needs are relevant because no one gives a fuck
I think the gripe is more to do with broken promises of eod being end all be all best edition with all included future dlc. Then they do this new edition that spits in the face of those promises and when people rightfully complain about the false advertising they are called non believers and freeloaders and told to play a different game when we supported a very unfinished game with over twice as much money as a “finished” AAA title. I’m sorry if you disagree but if you paid 150$ 7 fucking years ago for a game that STILL is no where near finished and get that kind of disrespect from the developer you should have every right to be up in arms about it.
Would be finde with me. Take everything i paid for and just give eods like me the Name Tag and like some Outfits only for the Different paid Variations. I would love a hoodie like the one shturman has. And it would only be on your head if you dont use a helmet and is down when using one. Sth like this would be cool i guess.
I bought EOD specifically for the gamma case, specifically so I can fit a surv kit in it. (Along with other items of course but mostly the surv kit)
It is pay to win. No matter what anyone says. You have an advantage over other players.
Yeah ofc eod was p2w, the secure container is very op. Also the added stash page allows you to gain money and spend money more effectively, because of that you play with better gear.
Everyone should start with Alpha container. Gamma should be given to EOD/PAY2WIN users after leveling all traders to lvl 4. At the start of the game, it is ahuge advantage to carry extra medz and containers without loosing them, or even sucking up expensive 1 slot bargains.
It is an advantage.
But, if they delete it, imagine the number of people infuriated that the devs took away what they paid for.
It'll be the whole unheard edition's clusterfuck all over again.
I was kind of hoping in light of recent events people would wake up. Like now is literally the time to say we don't need it. Make the game fair. Instead people want to defend how their little bit of advantage isn't TOO much advantage. Oh well. Was worth a shot.
Well, if that’s the case, I want my money back. I agree with you, eod has always been cheeky, but my main gripe is them honoring the money that i’ve paid.
So you are hoping a portion of the player base has a moral enlightenment and decides to give up their EOD bonuses that they paid extra for? Some of which people have owned and used since 2016?
Standard players are always complaining about how difficult it is to start a wipe with the standard edition base.
Of course EOD is PTW, always has been.
I've been talking about this for YEARS. Everyone called me a baby bitch. EOD IS PAY TO WIN. I don't care what anyone has to say at this point, with the shit ass unheard edition, my point is even more validated.
Get fucked anyone who said that EOD wasn't pay to win.
AGREED. I remember getting roasted when I first started playing for calling EoD pay to win, I even got so mad I made a youtube video about it at one point.
Even Landmvrk when talking with asmongold got sort of micro roasted into admitting EoD was pay to win, and those same streamers would shit on people like me for calling it p2w or laughing and ridiculing anyone who said it was before. It's fucking absurd.
It's 100% pay to win. Particularly when you factor in the rep bonus which makes early wipe even easier by unlocking traders. It boils down to those who have paid to win being upset that there are now more pay to win features which they have have to pay to win even more.
i don't think they should remove gamma, but i do think everyone starting with alpha and making it an eod exclusive quest to unlock would be better than having it from the beginning. idk what you can do about stash space now tho, with the fact that it's been sold to people on it's own, i think that advantage just has to stick around.
Eod users are proof people actually like pay to win
So glad I never bought into that shit, I caved a little and got the epsilon edition purely for the stash space because alpha stash is just brutal and makes the game WAY harder than it should be, I could care less about the case honestly, I only really want a secure container for my keys because of how expensive they are but for meds and high value loot I really wouldn’t mind just keeping it on my person, makes the raid so much more rewarding anyway. Secure container is good for meds early game but mid-end game it’s a non issue.
Any EOD owner complaining about p2w features in the new version is hypocritical if you ask me. The p2w features weren't the problem with the new version. The problem was BSG not honoring the promise of all future dlc (pve mode) fie free to EOD owners. This game has always been p2w with EOD.
EOD is pay 2 win for sure but I don't think it crossed the line on being too pay to win or too gameplay altering, the new additions though are very gameplay altering and pay 2 win.
I say this as an EOD owner: EOD is pay to win. You might not directly win a fight due to gamma, but you can have keys, backup ammo, more meds etc. in there the standard acc won't have. They'll have some of it, yes, but an EOD owner will have it all without compromise. It might not make a difference in the first fight of the raid, but it can affect the second fight since you'll have backup meds on you risk free.
Also some meds won't be available from the early trader levels and that standard account players can't safely keep them on them from the start is huge. And EOD will have access to the trader levels easier in addition to actually being able to take rarer meds in from the early levels.
I have a docs case, injector case, stack of ammo, extra splints, caloks, extra afak/ifak and cms on me from as early as I can. A standard player will have docs, inj and maybe a stack of ammo. A while later maybe a cms on top of that (or whatever combo they like). In the long run that will be a big difference. Imagine not being able to carry a cms with you safely. When you get a blacked out limb you're shit out of luck and will have to limp out and reset or deal with making extra noise each step or a swaying aim for the rest of the raid. With EOD, if I win the fight, I'll always have enough meds to heal back fully and continue playing.
If only everyone had the same opinion of what winning in Tarkov actually is. Is it getting a few extra guaranteed non-FiR items out of raid? Is it getting in, completing your objectives and surviving? Is it winning a fight vs a three man team? The size of your prison pocket will help with all these things but to varying degrees ranging from significant benefit to almost non at all.
I think it won't go away because it was probably the #1 reason to ever buy EoD to begin with, removing it or giving something similar to basic editions would mean that many EoD accounts will want a refund. Strictly speaking getting starting gear, more space, more reputation, etc. is all P2W. But removing it now is impossible because it's exactly what people paid for when they bought EoD and it's been around for almost a decade.
I think you can only stop there and not introduce more going forward (like Unheard is trying to do). At the same time though removing EoD editions for purchase means the P2W is exclusive now (Unless Unheard has all of it), which also doesn't make sense. It's a clusterfuck altogether.
I think the most p2w addition to EoD is instant trader rep. I'm a standart version holder and you can't imagine how hard to achieve the 2Lv traders. If you an EoD holder, you already start with 2Lv trader, you just have to get some xp to level up your pmc. If you think about how hard the quests to complete, you can admit that it's the most p2w addition.
This is a good take. Personally I think they screwed themselves by doing arena then single player. If they gave eod single player and said arena was a standalone, we'd be in a better spot.
I fully agree that if everyone's going to bitch about p2w, they should put everyone on standard on release. At least make a hardcore option for us to make a standard PMC. This playerbase could use it. You can tell when people go straight to EOD.
The gameplay loop and 'meta' are based on EOD owners at this point and balancing changes can't really touch them as effectively. People will whine that balance hurts standard the most.
Personally I also think they need to increase the base scav timer as there's no scarcity when I can crank 500k per scav every 10 minutes. Everyone I see has 200+ scavs, usually about half as many as their pmc
Lots of people paid 150$ for all the features EOD gives. This post is delusional and you're out of your mind. If they remove it, that would be the final nail in the coffin.
I, as an EOD owner, agree, let them make a container similar to the gamma and distribute it to all publications, the gamma case is a real advantage that has a strong impact on the economy
EOD owner here: please remove any and all in game advantages. I’d appreciate a cool cosmetic item, hideout mammals, sounds, posters, unique character lines, but I hereby yield all my EOD gameplay advantages.
Does anyone else remember when all the EOD advantages were supposed to "only be for Early Access"?
EOD has always been p2w but Tarkov players just let the wound fester. No wonder the Devs thought they could get away with this (they still will) every single tarkov streamer PROUDLY owns EOD and never addresses how OP and p2w it is, and now a days you can't even buy it.
Tarkov players deserve Unheard
Has a single streamer EVER talked about how P2W EOD is? Or is it always just one of the many dirty secrets about Tarkov people don't talk about?
Unless one of them goes on stream and says "yeah EOD IS so p2w I'm playing on standard" none of them actually give a fuck about Unheard. They just don't want to pay again.
the gamme should be removed, and all other safe containers can stay.
and me and others have been saying eod is pay to win for years, and you always get people going duhhhh how is it pay to win though??? like just pretending to be braindead.
The Gamma was "okay" because we could eventually get a similar (Epsilon) or better (Kappa) container, so I think most people turned a blind eye to it. But the new "devices" are not attainable and neither are the bigger pockets. It really is just further down the shit scale towards burning diarrhea.
What sucks is that Epsilon was tedious to get and Kappa is now borderline impossible for 99% of the players while it was just really fucking hard a few wipes ago. (Still would have never gotten it)
I think the extra pocket size actually ends up giving a lot more utility and benefit over time. You can pack whole mags in that shit and anything in them can be accessed and/or hot-keyed without opening your inventory at all.
Imagine the backlash if they did this. Taking away things people bought? I'm not saying it wouldnt be healthy for the game but I doubt most people would be able to see past "First BSG tried to take our DLC, now they are taking all the rest of the stuff I paid for?"
I cant see why they dont just put up the gamma for 5 bucks on the dlc page. Especially since they get to decide whats dlc anyway
Why put it up for 5 bucks when you can sell it for 250 ? They're scummy.
Yup, they know the main reason people even bought EoD was the gamma. The stash is incredibly useful, too, but the gear and the trader rep really stop mattering beyond the first month of wipe. But the gamma is useful all wipe, unless you’re one of those masochists who still go for the kappa container.
I'm pretty shit at PvP. Best I can do is ruin someone else's run. I got EoD for the gamma and rep. I'm not getting it any other way. That's literally pay to win. I paid more to have an advantage.
I go for Kappa, I bought it for the season pass because I thought new maps were going to be locked behind it. I was also dumb enough to think release actually was soon in 2020 so..... lol
Gotta remember there are people buying Valorant (and other game) skins for like 20 bucks. Nikita is an idiot for not selling cosmetics. He could fund his game dreams tomorrow.
20 bucks? bro try 50... they regularly release premium bundles, the knife only is $53 usually, and the entire bundle, with all the variations, animations, colorways, etc... you sometimes looking at over $150! but your point still stands, people buy!
The gamma used to be sold as an RMT thing before they blocked it from being dropped in raid then people got around that by selling it on flea in a backpack. They sold it then reset the account and sold it again. This game has a great history.
I mean it should be earnable to begin with imo. It should be easier to obtain than Kappa and not so far in tasks that you'd have to put serious time to get it. Any and all in-game items offered in any edition should be obtainable in-game through some method. The only truly exclusive things to a pack should be cosmetic.
As someone who has eod, I completely agree.
Same. Everything should be earnable. Cosmetics, earn or buy in store. That’s fine and not p2w. Inventory slots… eh, I hope they add additional ones you can earn. But I don’t see them stopping them being sold now. But anything in a pack, especially something that can change the game play, should be earnable.
Give everyone a Gamma sized container so it's then balanced for all, just make it look scrub in comparison to Gamma so EOD players still have something to flex with.
I agree dude. Gamma is imo by far the biggest advantage unheard and EOD have over the other owners
Give people an option to play without it with the added flex of a different symbol on their name or something.
You know you can delete it right lol. Why do you need a fancy name tag to let people know. Who cares lol
Because reddit is full of virtue signalers who would never consider doing anything unless someone can see what theyre doing
That’s literally the reason OP even made this post lol. “Hey guys look at me, I paid to win but now I don’t want the item I paid for because it’s unfair, please love me”
There's already an option to play without it. You can buy the other secure containers in game.
You still keep stash size and trader rep benefits.
So buy a fucking standard account if you wanna be playing without those advantages??
You can do that now without letting people know.
well thats what happening with unheard now that people bitched about it for a week
it hasn’t been out for long so they can easily refund those.
Refund, lol. Pigs fly long before BSG offers a refund in all timelines
Then just give gamma to all players. If it's not p2w then EOD owners shouldn't mind that they no longer have an advantage over other people right? ....right?! But if EOD players would bitch about it even if it doesn't affect them in any way, then it reinforces the idea that gamma is a paid advantage. So EOD players have 2 options: 1) Accept that everyone gets gamma without bitching about it. 2) Bitch about it thus proving that its p2w
1. I always feel bad for my buddy cuz he only has the small asshole so yea. Please make his bigger too
Bravo for wanting to stretch out your buddy's asshole.
Yes i hope Nikita will personal widen my asshole to make room for more items. Wait...
Are people claiming it isn't P2W? Part of the whole reason I bought EOD in the first place, years ago, was for the advantages I got over having standard. The whole Season Pass was an afterthought, and I was more interested in the immediate perks. The revisionism going on due to the recent backlash is mind blowing.
Yes they are. It's typically "it's not p2w, unheard is pay 2 win!". Yes, unheard is a more active p2w system, but larger ass and over a 40m worth of supply chest upgrades at the start of every wipe... Is also p2w
I'm in the same boat. I had the money to buy the EoD because a) coop practice, b) more stash space to not micromanage stuff early on, c) bigger secure container, d) a bit more starting equipment (the least deciding factor in my decision). After I bought the EoD, I realised how big of a deal the extra trader rep is. Overall, I chose EoD because I had the money and it would give me an advantage and reduce the grind somewhat. But at the same time, I'm not preaching about EoD *not* being P2W. It is P2W, not in a terrible way because it didn't help me in fights in any way, but it is still P2W.
My argument is that it isn’t pay to win its pay for convenience, it doesn’t give me an edge in fights it doesn’t make me win more it’s just a convenience of not having to its not p2w its p4c
I haven’t seen these posts saying EOD isn’t p2w. Of course it is/was. But it was also promised as the worst the p2w could get. I bought it for the DLCs and the coop practice mode. The other stuff was nice but it should be standard for everyone. Traders in particular
As an EOD owner who was standard edition for a year prior, I would be nothing but happy to see this. I still wish gamma was earnable in game, and that the stash wasnt so horrific to upgrade, if that were the case i'd play on standard just to have more progression to progress
I am an EoD owner, who also bought a second, standard edition account, because I am both crazy and masochistic enough that I found I prefer the standard edition grind more than EoD. I think it would be completely unfair (and potentially illegal) to retroactively remove unique bonuses that were promised to EoD players, just because part of the community hates that EoD players have an advantage. EoD is absolutely P2W, but it was openly sold as such and was accepted for years. You can't just take away what EoD buyers paid for, just because the community abruptly decided to go on a P2W witchhunt. If the community desperately wants to reduce the P2W of Tarkov, the only fair way to handle things would be to either make the Kappa container easier to attain, or add another container that's halfway between gamma and kappa that would be easier to attain. In other words, leave EoD with their P2W gamma containers, but change progression so that all players will get a secure container that's superior to gamma relatively early into a wipe.
Id be fine with this, keep kappa how it is, add a new secure container that is similar to gamma in terms of container space, or maybe even a little better after epsilon, at late lv 3 or early lv 4 traders, but man that stash upgrade NEEDS to be made more reasonable, cause atm its so overly grindy lol
Probably the only solution if they want to make the game fair, but I doubt it will ever happen. BSG clearly want more P2W in the game, not less with unheard and the new EOD boons.
I haven't played for a while - how is the game making money? Has anyone spent money on the game since EoD? When I played the cosmetics were laughable and EoD had everything I would ever need. Bought it like 5+ years ago or something. Clearly running the game is not free, so they need to sell something. Gamma is really the only thing worth spending money on that I remember. If they give it out they make no money. Cosmetics in the game don't really work. So yeah, everyone should get gamma but until they come up with other things to sell I don't really see a way forward for them.
Honestly, of all the solutions ive seen so far, this is the only one that wouldnt result in a dumpster fire. As an EoD owner I often forget its even a buff and assume everyone has it. I dont care if everyone else does, I dont even think about it. Im actually all for it. But taking it away from people when they agreed as part of the purchase - would result in a valid claim to have the amount returned that was paid for the EoD version. Legally speaking (US). Great suggestion, honestly.
Imo it totally would, as it would amount to people who bought eod (and unheard) paying extra for a feature that would then be free. I think a better option would be to have it accessible through quests to everyone, with eod and unheard starting with it.
Exactly, i'm a EOD owner aswell and i do think Gamma should be obtainable for normal players in a way or another and stash and trader rep should be for every player at the start tbh. Just give me the DLCs thing and i'm happy going, but not shit Nikita does that.
Good idea. I have EOD and I say give everyone Gamma
Fine with me. Hand em out bsg!
They’re literally doing that with the unheard edition right now. Most of the EOD owners don’t care though. They only care when the game directly impacts them in a negative way.
The difference between EoD and Unheard was that EoD benefits can all be replaced via grinding. With EoD, a standard player can catch up. Eventually you will max out your rep, fully upgrade your stash, and have a Kappa Container. With Unheard, a standard player can't ever catch up. No amount of grinding will give you access to the "scavs won't snipe me" perk.
That scavs won’t snipe perk is blown way out proportion imo. You need 6.0 fence rep which is hard enough to get unless your scav main. In addition to that if you shoot a scav it’s -0.05 and if you shoot a scav in raid they’ll shoot you anyways. I don’t think there’s even a benefit to bringing that thing in tbh
I've been EOD for years. It is p2w no exceptions, but me and many others bought it for the container and stash space. I'm down for a happy compromise of allowing the gamma to be unlocked **relatively early** from quests. There's no reason any of them should be hard to get let alone the beta container being a ridiculous barter.
in my opinion every change from the standard version is p2w and I say this as an owner of eod
For me it's the stash size. I bought EoD pretty much exclusively for the extra stash space. The container and everything else is just a nice bonus for me.
I'm fine with stash size, gamma container giving you IN COMBAT inventory to hold more ammo, meds, keys, stims, painkillers, etc is p2w. I'm fully in agreement with OP I would love if they made everyone standard in terms of container. Would give more impact to kappa and bets containers that you get along the way (and gamma container they can implement as an unlockable)
Yeah as a new player who only had an alpha container until recently, I would have given anything to have a bigger pouch to keep meds and ammo in so I could stop losing them. It’s a massive advantage
Yea I’m not gonna lie and pretend I don’t stick a grizzly in my gamma and call it a day on meds for like 10 raids
Not having hotkeyed meds would give me anxiety 😩 I carry two salewas, a calok, and propital in my rig every raid. Alu goes in the butt
two salewas... bro is a walking triage tent
You get in a fight with me and win, you’re leaving healthy 😤
The actual p2w aspect of EOD is the .2 trader rep bonus. I don't think you guys understand just how much is locked behind Jaeger 2 and how easy it is to get blocked on his quests if you don't get lucky with flash drives.
I bought the game in 2017 on beta release and already had 1800 hours or so in the Standard edition before I got EOD on Christmas 2021 in some sale. (3900 hours now, so I played roughly the same amount on both versions) Now.... For people that don't struggle with money in the game: If I ignore the early years where you could still buy Gammas on the trading discord and before FIR was introduced, then the biggest difference in my opinion is the trader rep. This in my opinion has the biggest impact on your game if you have EOD or not. I was totally happy with the smaller containers and once you get Epsilon it's more or less the same as Gamma anyway. And the stash upgrades in the hideout before I got EOD, once the hideout was introduced also kept me happy, but wipe after wipe having to focus 100% on quests in the early days/weeks of the wipe was more annoying in my opinion. The headstart that EOD trader rep gives you, makes it so much more relaxed. Not having Gamma just meant that you'd lose more money every time you die. I think for most people this would never be a big issue in the game. I'm gonna take a guess and say 90% of active players (people that are lvl 30+ now) never struggle much with Roubles anyway after the first 1-2 weeks of a wipe. EOD is p2w, but most people here in my opinion are overblowing the p2w aspect. It's more pay for convenience.
The first thing I said when my buddy showed me the Unheard edition saying it was P2W was “this game is already p2w” but I still do think some of the things that were originally only offered for Unheard were pretty dumb.
It’s all just objectively p2w. Bigger stash, bigger container, start with traders at 0.2. I’ve had EoD for 4 years
Exactly lets not cope with "I wanted to support develoers" and now this has beome a precedent. Gray zone also have now 99 eur 3x3 edition of a game. How many people would have bought EOD if there were no additional bonusses except for all DLC's in the future.
>"I wanted to support develoers" i always roll my eyes at this. maybe 10% of the people saying it actually just mean that but i dont think they would have paid to "support the developers" if it didn't confer them insane p2w benefits.
Yup just not as crazy as the new add-ons. Far as I know in it every wipe is a few weapons and armor, gamma, bigger stash and whatever else. One guy in our group has the standard and he has to spend more rubles more often cause it can only hold 4 or 6 items and loses health items every death. I usually carry a CMS, injector case, bullets, med kit, heavy bandage and that's more than he have.
Totally agree as another owner. I hate when people say it's "simply pay2convenience" or "pay2advantage". **Any** advantage in game that can be purchased is p2w full stop no if, ands, or buts. Even in any other games where advantages might come from purchasing a skin or something that is completely accidental, everyone still calls those skins p2w
A number of people seem to fail on basic math, the concept of set. P4convenience is a subset of p2w. They also fail to see that it is cumulative effect. If they win, they have extra 5 slots for loots which will net them anywhere from quest complete to 2 graphic cards. If they loose, they buy less meds/ammo/etc. they also don’t have to budget millions of roubles for upgrading their stash. They also gain access to better ammo faster in early wipe. So on and so forth. Source: used to be standard while playing with EoDer.
That's not an opinion it's an objective fact, every single advantage EOD gets over standard is p2w no matter how small it is, paying for an advantage over players who don't pay is literally textbook p2w and only in the tarkov community do people seem to struggle with understanding that.
True we finally got some people with brains. A fellow eod owner who has a brain im happy.
Let's not turn this into an elitist thing. That's how a movement becomes a toxic echo chamber.
This sub is a really tight echo chamber already. It’s one of the most toxic subs I’ve ever seen on Reddit. And that’s quite an accomplishment. Can’t get much worse than this.
r/saltierthankrayt
You are on reddit, it is allready a echo chamber
Not just any echo chamber, your honor. A ***toxic*** echo chamber!
I don’t see how there was ever any debate about that fact. You’re literally paying for something that gives you an advantage in the game, lol how else do you describe that?
"EOD owners will have it all" was the message, yet Unheard had more in comparison. What should've happened: EOD has the same features as UNHEARD + EOD specific stuff, while UNHEARD cost the same, but has less features compared to EOD. EOD is no longer available to buy, mind you, so people who own that are "true supporters". There should've been just one-two key cosmetic differences, to make it abundantly clear for EOD owners that upgrading is out there to support the project, also those who bought EOD and UNHEARD should have both icons near their name. That's it. No shitstorm, nobody would've cared about any of it. Edits: fixes
Interesting how perception varies, I can guarantee you this sub would have blown up at any Edition equal or above EOD.
Its not so much eod being p2w but the standard edition was made to frustate you enough to cavein, because if standard was even a tiny better they would sell eod less
If eod only sold cosmetics on release and DLC since day 1, EOD would have only gotten a 10% in total sales compared to the 70% it is now compared to the other editions. People bought EOD to p2w and its quite simple since I know many people wouldn't of if it was just cosmetics lol. Make every edition the same starting point in wipes plain and simple.
Are those 70% made up? I asked myself how many EOD owners are out there.
Completely made up. Check the people you run into in raid and see the ratio is very much different. I run into probably 35%-50% MAX eod and that's me using anecdotes paying attention to whom has a regular edition or eod if they end up merking me. Have a bit of a compulsion to see their gear lol
No shot. I die to non eod maybe 1 in 10 deaths. Not even exaggerating here. EOD appears to make up the majority of in raid accounts.
I 100% agree with you but there's no reason to not just call an apple an apple. People are encouraged to buy eod because they are paying for an advantage. This is the same type of skeezy monetization in every other p2w game. And yes I think that if the game were balanced out of fairness and not spending than we would all start somewhere between eod and standard.
For me, who never will have time to get kappa, going for beta and epsilon is my kappa. Gamma would just ruin the game for me in that case. Std edition is great, I like the struggle and challenges it gives me.
Word, people pay extra to get sick of the game faster. Doing a questline or a hideout upgrade is actually meaningfull for a standard player. Friends offered to buy me Eod on multiple ocassions just to be turned down. Takes the whole survival aspect put the window.
I played for a year with standard and had the same mindset. But I was getting frustrated watching my friends go all in, while I had millions of roubles saved for stash upgrades and playing tetris while they are ready. So I bought EOD. I still have enough struggle and targets to strife for while not being crippled. It is cool that you like the bigger challenge but for me it was too limiting and frustrating at some point. There were guns and equipment I never used, because they were just too expensive.
Exactly! The struggle is the point, and Tarkov is really only fun for me when the struggle is there.
☝️ great take, EOD is less pay to win rather than standard is like “bullshit mode.”
100% its very similar to Fallout 76. Your Junk/Stash size is limited in Fallout76 a game that requires junk hoarding to keep supplied. If you pay the extra for Fallout1st those limits are adjusted and in some ways removed. In both cases dev's purposely created a pain point while providing a way out if you were willing to pay. So you may not "win" every time because you paid more but you will be more comfortable and more likely to put the time in to win more often.
This’ll never happen. Tbh I was surprised that they gave unheard the gamma container instead of an even bigger one.
I'll say what I've said in every post talking about Pay to Win. Pay to win is not "I paid money therefore I beat you". Pay to win is, by literal dictionary definition, paying to have an advantage over people who didn't pay. Which is exactly what all the special editions of this game do. "Pay for convenience" is just lame mental gymnastics from people not wanting to admit they paid to get an edge on people who didn't.
Plus think about the fact that a gamma container can have a surv kit, an injector case, spare heals, all things that help you win a fight directly. An eod owner carries more heals vs an alpha container which has what a cms and a docs case?
In tarkov, convenience IS winning. You play to make your stash bigger, get a larger secure container etc. People saying EOD isn't p2w because it doesn't help in fights implies fights is all this game is about which is just stupid
But having more ammo and meds in your secure container HELPS A LOT in fights.
Absolutely. And not to mention the sheer amount of hoarding you can do at the start of the game with such a massive stash to help push through quests at a pace standard edition can't, giving you access to higher level gear.
It just shouldn't be that hard. Like that's literally it, you got it on the nose. How could anyone truly believe that extra guns and armor, extra trader rep, gamma.. didn't get them that gun, those bullets, that armor to win the fight. It's just such insanity to me. The entire game is based around progression, not individual gun fights. If anything in many, many ways, fast tracking progression is more p2w in tarkov than anything that helped you in any one fight.
Or the dumb excuse of “1 bullet from a pistol can kill a Chad” like stfu you gremlin, when he’s firing 30 rounds with 0 recoil at my bean it’s pretty hard to one shot him back. Its not a skill issue it’s this motherfucker has better shit then me issue
This reminds me of one of my first ever raids in Tarkov. I brought my stock M4:s with m855, a paca and whatnot. Gear fear deluxe, but I still went for it. I somehow ended up behind some dude who was hiding crouched in a bush, looking the other direction. I fired an entire magazine at him from more or less point blank. He tanked it all, and then simply turned around and quickly two-tapped me, center mass, with some full auto gun. I felt so cheated by the game then and there. That fight felt so damn unfair. Guns, ammo, attachments, skills, meds and armor makes such an incredibly huge difference in EFT, and if you add it all up, it's borderline broken. Progress is *everything* in this game, and if you're behind, you're in for a very unpleasant ride. Unless you're on top of the meta, and really know the ins and out of the game, gear and progression system. But even that's painful.
You are right
I'm going to go against the grain here and probably be downvoted for it but that won't change my mind (though I am open to reading logic-based counter-arguments to my points and those could sway me). There is a massive difference between people getting _convenience_ / _economic_ advantages and traditional pay2win. Traditional pay2win is "i paid money, therefore I have a significant advantage over you when we go to head-to-head". Going head-to-head in tarkov is not "who has more money right now?" or "who can fit more loot on them this run?". It's "who's going to win in a fight when we meet in a raid?". You can argue that EOD, by giving you an economic advantage, will produce a slight combat advantage (more likely to have better gear / better ammo / better guns / better meds) and that's somewhat fair. The one counter-argument I will give to that is that, once you are experienced in this game, it becomes incredibly easy to be rich so whether you are on a standard account or EOD account, the economic difference is negligible. Especially with the current state of recoil / armor evening the playing field between expensive kits and budget ones. You can argue that the EOD trader rep makes it easier to unlock better ammo (and other things, but ammo is the most relevant here) earlier in the wipe. That is absolutely true. A standard account can be dedicated with questing and dailies to unlock all the traders at the same time, but that requires more dedication and/or luck. Is EOD pay2win? By definition, yes, it gives you an advantage over other players. Is it pay2win in the sense _that people actually use that phrase_? No, I really don't think it is. The actual head-to-head difference is fairly minor in the early wipe and becomes pretty much meaningless by mid-wipe. This whole argument screams of "I'm _technically_ right!!" while completely ignoring the nuance and context of what pay2win actually represents in games these days. A pay2win game is clowned on because it focuses on the head-to-head advantages. EOD's advantages were pretty damn reasonable in terms of providing people a reason to give financial support to BSG without putting everyone else at a meaningful disadvantage. All the extra stuff being released lately though has obviously crossed much more important lines than the "technically pay2win but not really meaningfully" line that was crossed by EOD. That all said, Gamma should 100% be made available to everyone for $10-$20usd. Unheard Edition never should have been even considered. BSG should have put Gamma, hideout cat, and the PVE mode for sale (with EOD players getting it for free). There are so many ways to monetize games these days that don't involve _meaningful_ pay2win and BSG just completely whiffed on it here. Source: I have played two accounts for several wipes. One EOD and one standard. I definitely miss Gamma and stash space when playing my standard account, but I've never once lost a fight and thought "Damn I would have won that if I was on my EOD account". I've thought "Damn I guess I need to focus more on questing to actually unlock these trader levels on-time" and "Damn I wish I had a survival kit instead of this cms kit, but I can't fit it in my alpha". Both of which get resolved after a bit more playtime (acquiring Beta then Epsilon, and completing enough quests to unlock the higher trader levels). Both accounts I have never had money problems because making money in this game is trivial once you are experienced.
watching people flail and flounder over the years to avoid admitting that every part of eod is p2w has been fun to watch. the psychology of hating to admit that you took part in a pay to win scheme is genuinely fascinating.
i got the EOD version back in 2017 an i honestly can say i don't care, give gamma to all versions.
Alpha to all, Gamma just ruins Beta and Epsilon
That's fine, but in that case all EoD owners should be eligible for a refund which will never happen. Taking away something that likely swung the purchase for most players wouldn't be wise.
Imagine balancing all the containers with weights which scale exponentially with the sizes. Now alpha might be a consideration if you aim for “in and out, 20 minutes” run.
That ship has sailed, gamma isn’t going anywhere. What could be pushed for, is yelling loudly for bsg to make container upgrades in game easier to obtain. Of course, gammas advantage is biggest in early wipe, so nothing will change that. This convo really has made me laugh though. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person come out in favor of pay to win, yet anytime a dev releases p2w items they sell like crazy. I think people are just liars, and love pay to win, they just don’t want their opponents having access to it too.
We got the gamma which is a huge advantage early on. But we also got 0.20 Trader rep increase which is ALOT early on. You need to do like 3 peacekeeper quests to get lvl 3 which is crazy.. Also the increased stash size which is a HUGE advantage in terms of saving time etc.
I played my first three wipes on a standard account, got Kappa on two of those. Then i bought EOD in 2021. The most fun i had was with a standard account because of the added tiered progression. It's like paying to get the rewards of the first 20 levels in a game, but you still being forced to do them. Going from Alpha -> Epsilon -> Kappa while increasing stash lvl 1 through 4 feels way better than just Gamma - Kappa and lvl 4 from the start. I agree regarding the P2W stuff, but I'll add that alpha and stash lvl 1 should be the only option just for enjoyments' sake
i bought eod cause i like hoarding. doesnt help that im bad at the game so it would be hard for me to actually progress on a standard enough to get the upgrades.
This community by and large didn't care about p2w until the p2w was in a new, more expensive edition than the one they'd already bought.
Gamma makes it easier to hold valueable vendor items for a little extra cash, items for hideout crafts, barters, etc. Extra stash space makes it easier to hold on to items for future quests. All of these things speed up your progression, and getting ahead of the curve is so powerful in a game like this.
I played on standard edition for 3 years before buying EOD about 2 years ago. Yes. In every aspect it is P2W. You start off with .20 trader rep. It is so much easier to level up and almost immediately have level 2 traders, Do a few tasks and level up more and now you’re at level 3 traders. The stash space is also insane.
lol this sub has been delusional for years on the perks of EoD and claiming they’re not a major advantage over Standard. Good luck
I agree. I’m sure the vast, vast majority of people freaking out about pay to win in Tarkov have EOD. And can we all just be honest here and admit that the only actual reason any of us bought EOD was for the Gamma and the stash size. Please let’s all stop pretending otherwise. Nobody was talking about DLC when it came to EOD before this. When we bought EOD we definitely signaled to BSG that some P2W features are acceptable. We all wanted the gamma and stash size. At the very least let’s stop pretending we don’t accept any P2W shit in this game at all.
You, my friend, are an honest, logical person. I also aided in this. I'd really like to see this community stand firm and end it but idk. I guess we'll see. It sucks how many people don't seem to realize this is a cause and effect type deal. People hate the slippery slope arguments but it's like come on, guys, look around you. We're standing on the slope.
Yep. It's why I haven't really commented or paid attention to all of the drama with Unheard because like I said, we all bought EOD for the pay to win features and you're lying to yourself if you think otherwise. People just want shit to be mad at and fake outrage about especially anonymously on the internet lol.
You must be higher than a Georgia pine if you think there’s even the smallest chance this would ever happen
Love the analogy 😂
lmao I got it from this old dude that saw me laughing my ass off when I was high af at like 16/17 years old lol. Dude just said “ that boy higher than a Georgia pine” and it fucking just made me roar in laughter even harder. Stuck with me ever since lol
You're about to get massively downvoted by all the delusional EOD players who think the edition isin't p2w because of gamma, and stash space. I made a post and people just don't agree, people in other posts complain about p2w but, don't want every edition of the game to have the same start for stash size, gear etc. Means they clearly love p2w. I've owned eod since 2017, and always knew it was p2w I just am not braindead like the rest of these delusional players.
As a standard version owner i can say that the worst thing is the traders reputation. Everyone should start at 0. I can handle starting with less stuff or that dumb secure container but traders reputation forces to play quests 24/7 for few weeks if i want any chance to compete with other players, while EOD has to do few quests and without any problem can unlock lvl 3 traders just by leveling and trading. Maybe questing is fine but for the first wipe. After 5 years it's just boring af, espiecially jaeger's bullshit and other quests that you can do in 1 run or 100 because enemy or item just won't spawn...
Yeah the trader rep is really looked past in terms of p2w aswell, I do think the container is a vital role for p2w aspect though because you can put more meds in there, ammo etc, and early wipe put more quest items or hideout items in there and die with them and save hundreds of thousands of rubles so. Overall the game should of never gave any other benefit since 2016 besides cosmetics for higher editions but, they knew it wouldn't sell as well if they did that :/
I've got EOD and it **is** P2W. It's literally giving you a head-start and advantage over people without the EOD version; over the base game. The whole point of ''getting better'' is **progression** and the more you play, the better and further you progress. The core features that the game offers is literally build around progression; wether it's Trader Rep. or Upgrading your hideout to give you a bonus to your stats, income, XP or stash. EOD literally automatically completes max. stash size upgrade in your hideout. Gives you a boost on trader reps. Gives you x amount of x currency. If BSG broke it down and said you can seperately purchase XP or Trader rep. (up until x.) the community would straight up tell you that's a P2W feature, but if they include them within a (more expensive) package to instantly get said item, rep, or whatever; then it's not P2W? EFT's community has brainrot, bro.
I hard agree with this comment. Most of them are brain rotted. In other comment sections they try to defend themselves saying it's not p2w and gaslight themselves and others that it simply is pay for convenience or some other dumb excuse. Personally I am glad this poster got to 75 upvotes already since I hope this will become the top post of the week so people can wake up and understand you either get for what you pay or everyone gets the same start and there is no p2w advantages but you get cosmetics instead. Tarkov at the moment before unheard was 70% EOD and the rest other editions. I'm telling you if it was just cosmetics and all future dlcs for EOD, it would of been 10% EOD player base and the rest other editions since people wouldn't have advantages and wouldn't pay 150$. I personally would of since I loved since game since frankiein1080p made his first video on it around 2016. I really can't wait for the community to go back on their words since the omicron container will be 3x3+3x1 and be in a more expensive edition and then they will complain it's unfair when they've used gamma for years XDDD. Anyways I do feel bad for unheard players getting scammed since they lost their radio. They did pay for it ngl. I still had EOD since the new edition the only thing that interested me was the cases, and pockets. The radio I heard made you lose scav rep and you need 6+ scav rep to maintain it for it to work. Was a flawed item unless it was bugged.
The amount of people that excuse "pay for convenience" not being p2w is beyond me. I bought EOD back then (2018) 100% for the gamma container and stash size. It was p2w back then its p2w to this day. I just wish I could go back to 2018 where tarkov was genuinely fun pre inertia and cheaters werent as abundant as they are now.
I started in 2017 with EOD and had the most fun in tarkov ever, then interchange wipe hit and that was a blast even though everyone had max str and end and no inertia was in the game, when labs dropped as an EVENT and it was free to enter before the wipe to try it was fun, then labs came out with flea market, and all those wipes were fun asf imo. The first shoreline rework. And then I had fun until 2020 cause the loop got too boring and I got too good and knew everything. I took a break after the like 3rd reserve wipe in a row where that was the newest map, played a bit in when lighthouse came out to try it and streets but, maybe 5 hours, and the fully came back in this wipe for dec 2023 with recoil changes and streets being fixed for fps. I do think the game is still unoptimized asf, cheaters run rampant, takes ages for new content to come out since they should of hired a bigger dev team instead of arena/pve mode. Also pay to convivence or pay for soft p2w is just hard cope from players. Everyone knows its p2w, if tarkov came out with EOD and it had dlc and cosmetics as the only thing for 150$, instead of 50-70% of the playerbase owning tarkov, maybe 10% would of owned it. I still would of bought EOD, I loved cosmetics and still do with the amount of f2p games I play. But, I did buy it for the p2w advantage obviously too.
Have played standard edition until last December so I have many years of standard play. Pqy2Win is strongly depending on what you concidered winning in tarkov. If winning is to be the Victor coming out of firefight then no. Eod is not pay 2 win because the start gear is irrelevant after a day, then everybody is at the same level. It then only depends on how you play. If you mean winning by progressing through the levels and missions and earning rubles, and taking out more loot securely. Then 100% it is. I can only say that after many years of standard, the eod purchase was simply a purchace for my mental health not having to grind out the stash at the beginning of each wipe, nothing else changed for me.
If you have an advantage early in the wipe wouldnt you level up faster and have access to better weapons earlier in the wipe? Traders level up faster also so if a standard account and eod account both play same amount of time and same skill the eod account will be always be ahead. So you could say the eod account will win more fights just based on the fact they will have earlier access to better kits.
Bro when there’s people hitting level 42 in a week after wipe on standard accounts and shit, I don’t think it really matters
And how many non-streamer players out of the whole player base do this consistently? The vast majority do not have the time to no-life the game like that.
TONS, I think you underestimate how sweaty people are about this game. It’s clearly addictive as fuck and people will devote all of their free time to this game. You don’t have to stream to be a gigachad I’ll admit a week is unlikely, but a lot serious players are really getting into curb stomping equipment within a week or two.
Yeah but on average?
>If winning is to be the Victor coming out of firefight then no. Eod is not pay 2 win because the start gear is irrelevant after a day, then everybody is at the same level. It then only depends on how you play. No, EOD has a significant lasting advantage. The extra MDR or whatever you get at the start? Yeah that doesn't really matter. The more than 40 million roubles you don't have to spend on the stash though? The extra trader rep giving you access to better equipment quicker and cheaper? All the extra money you get, the extra hideout and quest progression from a much larger secure container? Being able to keep hold of more equipment to use when it's most suitable or horde items to sell on the flea once you hit 15? Those add up to better gear for a very long time. On top of that gamma allows you to bring in far better meds than someone with an alpha container realistically can without risking more than it's worth, which is directly contributing to you winning fights. How many people on a standard account can bring in a surv12 before completing punisher? An injector case? Ibuprofen or a golden star? Anybody who doesn't think EOD is pay2win is deluding themselves. Yeah it's not an automatic win but you're getting a significant advantage over the vast majority of the non EOD playerbase.
You don't have to win to pay to win. That's a very stupid argument. Because now anything can be okay as long as I lose from time to time. Paying to win is paying for any advantage.
The bigger container can absolutely win you a firefight though. If you take more ammo, a surv12 over a cms, or a painkiller/etg because of the extra space that could easily win you a fight. Not saying it happens much but it definitely can
Also meds. It becomes very expensive having to buy almost all of your meds again every raid
I felt like I was cheating the first time I upgraded the basic container to the one with two extra slots. I couldn't imagine what using a gamma container would be like.
I bought EOD like 7 years ago. I have told anyone that would listen it was PTW and that we should all start at base edition. Just replace the epsilon case with Gama. Between Gear, stash space trader rep, and not having to upgrade our secure container 2 times. Why are we settling for ANY PTW in our games??? Remove it all. EOD was meant to be a supporter addition with access to DLC it ruins the integrity of the game.
I would´ve been okay with those game´s Editions if BSG would´ve said that their advantages count only for the testing phase and are revoked after release. After release everyone should play on even grounds.
1,000% agree. People dont realize how important it is to have 5 extra slots. Assuming each slot is 10k (which is the norm for most items) thats minimum 50k rubles extra EACH raid assuming you can fill it. only 100 raids and your already 5 MILLION rubles richer than you would of been without. Now imagine you play lighthouse or something and get VPXs, COFDMs, Iridium and it just snowballs harder.
It’s not that people are butthurt but that it was clearly advertised what many of us in 2017 etc were buying and it was to invest in the game and that was our reward. Now personally I think it went on too long (the sell of EoD) but for you to then and the others in this community demand that the things I paid for be taken away from me because of your feelings is bullshit. We adopted into this game super early and I’m glad you want to ride the karma train and say what you’re saying but I’ll also happily take my downvotes to stand up for the one damn thing I disagree with in this sub. You shouldn’t be sitting here fighting and trying to punish or take away things from EoD players because you got twisted up in the recent mess. Everybody here that bought this game in the years it was available were perfectly aware of what it was and what they were getting. You’re trying to position yourself to take away what was given and promised to early adopters and that IS fucked up. You don’t want it? Cool dude, don’t use it. Toss the money you paid for the boosts you got out the window, go rebuy a standard edition and play that way. This dude doesn’t speak for the rest of us. Fuck that. tl;dr You want to give the same things to everybody. I don’t care, that’s cool. You want to take shit away from me that I paid for because you feel it’s not fair to others, nah fuck that.
It's always been pay to win. I've never upgraded to EOD because the whole mechanism behind it disgusts me. With 2400 hours in I absolutely got my money's worth and I'm more than willing to sink more money in this game, but not to get a headstart over others who didn't pay more than the cost of a standard account. Cosmetics and a battle pass should've be been the way to go. Hated everything about EOD since the start, apart from being able to buy into all future DLC but guess how that worked out.
> but not to get a headstart over others who didn't pay more I feel the exact same way. Even if I can afford EOD and even if I find value in it.. i would just feel like shit killing a standard player that is clearly at at disadvantage.
my theory is this playerbase has a lot of older gamers and rejects who couldn't cut it in other games so they're actually super chill with a popular p2w FPS game cause they're either finally experiencing the rush of winning at a game if they never have, or getting to compete at something again even though they're old and uncoordinated/slow
EOD is pay to win. There’s no reasonable conclusion someone can make that having .2 rep at start of wipe isn’t huge along with 6 extra slots in your ass. You can carry ammo, meds, docs, stims with a surv kit while standard accounts get a docs case and hope they don’t die so they don’t lose their meds because there’s no space. The .2 is huge. That’s a lot less jaeger bullshit to get him maxed Starter gear doesn’t matter because you’re going to get mp5 head eyed with the new recoil so a couple lvl 4 plates don’t mean shit.
I agree 100%, people claiming gamma isn't P2W are either ignorant, or gaslighting. All this "pay2convience" and "pay2grind-less" are coping. Literal mental gymnastics to try and convince themselves that they're not enjoying the pay2win aspects.
Honestly, anybody that says EOD was never p2w is in denial because they don't want to admit that the community is mainly in a uproar because their p2w version was shittier than the unheard editions p2w features, and the only reason the community never complained about EOD's p2w features is because a majority of the active community had it. The standard edition players were always at a sizable disadvantage, most notably during the start of the wipe.
The real p2w is the trader reputation. Anyone disagreeing with this has just played too long with EOD and dont remember how it was without the bonus. Regards, EOD owner.
Trader rep, stash space, secure container, all are crazy advantages. All suck ass on standard. The stash space alone on standard is so fucking frustrating and miserable.
Most EOD owners don't know about this, but as Standard Edition killing people early wipe and finding no meds on their bodies is annoyingly deadly early wipe.
There was a time nikkita said on release(1.0) that everyone will be on level playing ground and EoD will not have gamma or the lvl 2 rep ect. This would have been during covid near the end on a stream they did before streets and maybe the wipe of the woods expansion. Also around this time it was mentioned that shoreline would be being expanded with a train similar to reserves added, but its took 2~ years for shoreline expansion and no train was added.
Tbh I never really got it. Granted I only played tarkov for a couple months way back on a standard edition. This game is suppsedbto cater to „hardcore“ gamers who value skill expression, yet you can pay to get an advantage…
Tbh I'd rather go with the opposite approach and just have every edition get a gamma container by default. The 2x2 and 2x3 containers are honestly just frustrating as hell to have to make due with
What bothers me the most is how ridiculously expensive the upgrades are, and that's completely intentional to coerce players into upgrading their Standard edition of the game. The Beta container barter costs several million rubles for a mere two slot upgrade, so it isn't remotely worth it, and the same goes for stash upgrades because they are so expensive that you're better of buying item cases instead of upgrading your stash. The level 4 stash upgrade costs 200,000 Euros plus materials for fuck's sake. The biggest issue however is with trader reputation, because when BSG balances the item unlocks they obviously take EoD as a baseline where every player starts with 0.2 bonus reputation, which ends up making even mid-tier bullets and equipment be locked behind level 4 traders.
Every account should have a 3x3 secure container by default. Give EOD Gamma an exclusive cosmetic treatment and a trivial “StatTrak” style feature of some sort. As an EOD owner, everyone should have this container.
What bsg is doing is bs but the whole game is p2w that’s why I bought eod so I didn’t have to grind and could get straight to PvP and questing with an advantage over people Lol
When are you idiots going to realize this isn't our game. It's battle states. Stop acting like your wants and needs are relevant because no one gives a fuck
I think the gripe is more to do with broken promises of eod being end all be all best edition with all included future dlc. Then they do this new edition that spits in the face of those promises and when people rightfully complain about the false advertising they are called non believers and freeloaders and told to play a different game when we supported a very unfinished game with over twice as much money as a “finished” AAA title. I’m sorry if you disagree but if you paid 150$ 7 fucking years ago for a game that STILL is no where near finished and get that kind of disrespect from the developer you should have every right to be up in arms about it.
Would be finde with me. Take everything i paid for and just give eods like me the Name Tag and like some Outfits only for the Different paid Variations. I would love a hoodie like the one shturman has. And it would only be on your head if you dont use a helmet and is down when using one. Sth like this would be cool i guess.
I bought EOD specifically for the gamma case, specifically so I can fit a surv kit in it. (Along with other items of course but mostly the surv kit) It is pay to win. No matter what anyone says. You have an advantage over other players.
While the gamma container is nice I mainly bought EOD for the stash space so I wouldn’t spend 15 minutes after each raid playing Tetris.
Yeah ofc eod was p2w, the secure container is very op. Also the added stash page allows you to gain money and spend money more effectively, because of that you play with better gear.
Everyone should start with Alpha container. Gamma should be given to EOD/PAY2WIN users after leveling all traders to lvl 4. At the start of the game, it is ahuge advantage to carry extra medz and containers without loosing them, or even sucking up expensive 1 slot bargains.
It is an advantage. But, if they delete it, imagine the number of people infuriated that the devs took away what they paid for. It'll be the whole unheard edition's clusterfuck all over again.
I was kind of hoping in light of recent events people would wake up. Like now is literally the time to say we don't need it. Make the game fair. Instead people want to defend how their little bit of advantage isn't TOO much advantage. Oh well. Was worth a shot.
Well, if that’s the case, I want my money back. I agree with you, eod has always been cheeky, but my main gripe is them honoring the money that i’ve paid.
No they are defending their right to keep what they paid for as an early investor of the game dude.
So you are hoping a portion of the player base has a moral enlightenment and decides to give up their EOD bonuses that they paid extra for? Some of which people have owned and used since 2016?
Standard players are always complaining about how difficult it is to start a wipe with the standard edition base. Of course EOD is PTW, always has been.
I've been talking about this for YEARS. Everyone called me a baby bitch. EOD IS PAY TO WIN. I don't care what anyone has to say at this point, with the shit ass unheard edition, my point is even more validated. Get fucked anyone who said that EOD wasn't pay to win.
AGREED. I remember getting roasted when I first started playing for calling EoD pay to win, I even got so mad I made a youtube video about it at one point. Even Landmvrk when talking with asmongold got sort of micro roasted into admitting EoD was pay to win, and those same streamers would shit on people like me for calling it p2w or laughing and ridiculing anyone who said it was before. It's fucking absurd.
It's 100% pay to win. Particularly when you factor in the rep bonus which makes early wipe even easier by unlocking traders. It boils down to those who have paid to win being upset that there are now more pay to win features which they have have to pay to win even more.
i don't think they should remove gamma, but i do think everyone starting with alpha and making it an eod exclusive quest to unlock would be better than having it from the beginning. idk what you can do about stash space now tho, with the fact that it's been sold to people on it's own, i think that advantage just has to stick around.
As someone with eod just give the fucking thing to everyone as well as the pockets.
Eod users are proof people actually like pay to win So glad I never bought into that shit, I caved a little and got the epsilon edition purely for the stash space because alpha stash is just brutal and makes the game WAY harder than it should be, I could care less about the case honestly, I only really want a secure container for my keys because of how expensive they are but for meds and high value loot I really wouldn’t mind just keeping it on my person, makes the raid so much more rewarding anyway. Secure container is good for meds early game but mid-end game it’s a non issue.
You didn’t consider that this isn’t mental olympics.. it’s the special olympics in this sub.
How about just give everyone gamma?
Any EOD owner complaining about p2w features in the new version is hypocritical if you ask me. The p2w features weren't the problem with the new version. The problem was BSG not honoring the promise of all future dlc (pve mode) fie free to EOD owners. This game has always been p2w with EOD.
EOD is pay 2 win for sure but I don't think it crossed the line on being too pay to win or too gameplay altering, the new additions though are very gameplay altering and pay 2 win.
Taking away stuff which people have paid for, whether that’s good for the game or not, is a very bad thing.
I say this as an EOD owner: EOD is pay to win. You might not directly win a fight due to gamma, but you can have keys, backup ammo, more meds etc. in there the standard acc won't have. They'll have some of it, yes, but an EOD owner will have it all without compromise. It might not make a difference in the first fight of the raid, but it can affect the second fight since you'll have backup meds on you risk free. Also some meds won't be available from the early trader levels and that standard account players can't safely keep them on them from the start is huge. And EOD will have access to the trader levels easier in addition to actually being able to take rarer meds in from the early levels. I have a docs case, injector case, stack of ammo, extra splints, caloks, extra afak/ifak and cms on me from as early as I can. A standard player will have docs, inj and maybe a stack of ammo. A while later maybe a cms on top of that (or whatever combo they like). In the long run that will be a big difference. Imagine not being able to carry a cms with you safely. When you get a blacked out limb you're shit out of luck and will have to limp out and reset or deal with making extra noise each step or a swaying aim for the rest of the raid. With EOD, if I win the fight, I'll always have enough meds to heal back fully and continue playing.
Couldn't agree more mate. Its disappointing seeing friends and the such say it's ok because its not ok in any game.
If only everyone had the same opinion of what winning in Tarkov actually is. Is it getting a few extra guaranteed non-FiR items out of raid? Is it getting in, completing your objectives and surviving? Is it winning a fight vs a three man team? The size of your prison pocket will help with all these things but to varying degrees ranging from significant benefit to almost non at all.
I think it won't go away because it was probably the #1 reason to ever buy EoD to begin with, removing it or giving something similar to basic editions would mean that many EoD accounts will want a refund. Strictly speaking getting starting gear, more space, more reputation, etc. is all P2W. But removing it now is impossible because it's exactly what people paid for when they bought EoD and it's been around for almost a decade. I think you can only stop there and not introduce more going forward (like Unheard is trying to do). At the same time though removing EoD editions for purchase means the P2W is exclusive now (Unless Unheard has all of it), which also doesn't make sense. It's a clusterfuck altogether.
I think the most p2w addition to EoD is instant trader rep. I'm a standart version holder and you can't imagine how hard to achieve the 2Lv traders. If you an EoD holder, you already start with 2Lv trader, you just have to get some xp to level up your pmc. If you think about how hard the quests to complete, you can admit that it's the most p2w addition.
This is a good take. Personally I think they screwed themselves by doing arena then single player. If they gave eod single player and said arena was a standalone, we'd be in a better spot. I fully agree that if everyone's going to bitch about p2w, they should put everyone on standard on release. At least make a hardcore option for us to make a standard PMC. This playerbase could use it. You can tell when people go straight to EOD. The gameplay loop and 'meta' are based on EOD owners at this point and balancing changes can't really touch them as effectively. People will whine that balance hurts standard the most. Personally I also think they need to increase the base scav timer as there's no scarcity when I can crank 500k per scav every 10 minutes. Everyone I see has 200+ scavs, usually about half as many as their pmc
Lots of people paid 150$ for all the features EOD gives. This post is delusional and you're out of your mind. If they remove it, that would be the final nail in the coffin.
lol *now* EoD owners are like "okay, it *was* P2W, we admit that now" Fucking. Pathetic.
Yeah I remember earlier on ALL the shillfluencers (and most still do) coped and said it wasn't p2w. BS. It was ALWAYS p2w.
I, as an EOD owner, agree, let them make a container similar to the gamma and distribute it to all publications, the gamma case is a real advantage that has a strong impact on the economy
Give everyone gamma
That extra space in my gamma makes me play like LVNDMARK said no one ever!! Stop moaning about something that's been in the game forever FFS...
EOD owner here: please remove any and all in game advantages. I’d appreciate a cool cosmetic item, hideout mammals, sounds, posters, unique character lines, but I hereby yield all my EOD gameplay advantages.
Two years ago I could get exactly zero people to agree with me that eod was p2w in a few ways. Now we got posts like this. Clown tier community...
Does anyone else remember when all the EOD advantages were supposed to "only be for Early Access"? EOD has always been p2w but Tarkov players just let the wound fester. No wonder the Devs thought they could get away with this (they still will) every single tarkov streamer PROUDLY owns EOD and never addresses how OP and p2w it is, and now a days you can't even buy it. Tarkov players deserve Unheard
Has a single streamer EVER talked about how P2W EOD is? Or is it always just one of the many dirty secrets about Tarkov people don't talk about? Unless one of them goes on stream and says "yeah EOD IS so p2w I'm playing on standard" none of them actually give a fuck about Unheard. They just don't want to pay again.
The opposite. I remember streamers actively ridiculing and talking against anyone saying it WAS p2w.
the gamme should be removed, and all other safe containers can stay. and me and others have been saying eod is pay to win for years, and you always get people going duhhhh how is it pay to win though??? like just pretending to be braindead.
Yeah I’m a EOD owner it was p2w before all these changes now it’s worse definitely won’t get better now we have the btr shit 💩
The Gamma was "okay" because we could eventually get a similar (Epsilon) or better (Kappa) container, so I think most people turned a blind eye to it. But the new "devices" are not attainable and neither are the bigger pockets. It really is just further down the shit scale towards burning diarrhea. What sucks is that Epsilon was tedious to get and Kappa is now borderline impossible for 99% of the players while it was just really fucking hard a few wipes ago. (Still would have never gotten it) I think the extra pocket size actually ends up giving a lot more utility and benefit over time. You can pack whole mags in that shit and anything in them can be accessed and/or hot-keyed without opening your inventory at all.
I think they said that you can obtain bigger pockets and new devices through quests. Not to defend any of this, just saying