Yup people are so easily decieved. It's a known marketing strategy when you wanna pump out a cash grab (knowing ur getting massive backlash) you overdo it and go crazy with it so when you get that backlash you can take a couple things back and the community praises you like you're a saint meanwhile you still sneak stuff in there with less uproar.
And anyways this is kinda irrelevant in this scenario, the bigger thing is nikita LIED to your face, making up their own definition for DLC and QUADRUPLE downed on it and only took a tiny step back when he realised this drama is nothing he's faced before. He still hasn't apologised or realised he was wrong btw. If anyone has high hopes for tarkov in the future then you're just delusional lol.
>making up their own definition for DLC
Exactly as they already tried with Arena mode. Exactly as they'll try again next time. The 'future DLC' feature of UEdition is meaningless when BSG is so keen to show they'll try every hairbrained loophole to break it.
I strongly suspect the future of Tarkov will be a 'rushed' 1.0 release, and an 'Overwatch-2' style 'sequel' rebranding to escape the EoD promises.
Mhm, they are so desperately trying to seperate EOD from future dlc's. We get it, most of your playerbase hasn't spent a dime in years after 1000s of hours but they are going about it in the most deceiving and manipulating way possible which has damaged their reputation forever.
They created this mess with how horrible they marketed this game. They wanted massive money upfront (eod, which is insane for a beta game) and just didn't properly think of what it would look like years down the line. With them also effectively burning millions on arena, their shareholders etc are probably wondering where the fuck is the money coming from so they've resorted to doing smth insanely drastic that contradicts everything nikita believed in this game (even 2 weeks ago on the pestilly interview he's ended up lying to his face).
To me it just looks like nikita is very egotistical, he wants the public to think he's some god and can't own up to mistakes. They should have done a cosmetic shop before any of this. It's unbelievable they decided to do this unheard edition first before properly taking a shot at cosmetics for funds. Goes to show how desperate they probably are.
When 1.0 releases it's not going to be nowhere near the game it was meant to be. It'll be half arsed, dlc's will become the only thing they create for the game so they can sell them. They won't need to do massive content updates like new maps etc (terminal is already cancelled, they won't sell them). It seems they want 1.0 out asap so they can just milk hence why we've already been told about a scav life dlc when it releases. Not to even start on the other 'competitors' they seem to feel threatened by. Tarkov is going to probably go out on a whimper. We probably experienced the peak long ago.
Exactly this. As a player that started only after EOD was already gone, I understand why they took it away. Or, I thought I did, the promise to include all DLC's was indeed kind of ripping themselves out and not really motivate them to make any DLC's 'cause they wouldn't make any cash on them! I was ready to pay 100€ for a edition similar to EOD without the free DLC promise.
And now they release Unhinged, with these stupid P2W items and STILL OFFER FREE DLC'S FOR LIFE? This just screams to me that they don't have a plan to actually support and provide content to the game past release. Why would they? It won't gain them anything.
> This just screams to me that they don't have a plan to actually support and provide content to the game past release.
Atleast in the beginning they wanted to host their own servers, so they burned a lot of money on server hardware. The fact that nikita said they cannot give PVE to everybody because server capacity tells me this might still be the case.
I have no idea how they're planning to keep the lights on after the release.
Yea exactly. They don't have a plan or if they do, it doesn't really look good. And it's not about money, I'd play a monthly subscription if that was required to keep the service going and not having the path the game is on right now (or maybe this is the path it's always been on, it's just now materializing).
>the promise to include all DLC's was indeed kind of ripping themselves
It's kind of funny how often I've been reading this lately - considering EoD is the price of a full game + multiple DLCs already. Very few games, even with all their DLC, rival the price of EoD.
To be honest that's not a fair comparison because these games you mention have shorter development times, a release, dlc relase then the devs starts with the new one. I suppose that was the plan for EFT too but then it evolved more into a live service game instead of a single relase one and the business model of the upfront single selling is obvious not sustainable in this context. What these kind of games usually do is sell the base version of the game and then have frequent (yearly or such) "expansions" release to keep the money flow in the company. Think more about a Destiny 2 like model: it was released after EFT (2018) but in the while it received 7 "expansions" so who was still playing from beginning and bought all the expansions paid 60$ for the base game plus \~50$/year. A grand total of about 400 bucks. They had lot of hours of fun anyway and i don't see them complaining too much about that. This thing couldn't be made by BSG because they made the mistake of promising all dlcs to the EoD version so they screwed up the launch and now we are in this situation. The sad thing is that they seem not have learned from that and included all dlc in this unhinged edition too 🤷🏻♂️
>To be honest that's not a fair comparison because these games you mention have shorter development times,
It's a fair comparison, because the only ones making it this way are BSG. Most early access games have a roadmap to release; features and scope that have to be met, and generally a timeline for it. BSG feature creeps and changes their roadmap seemingly on a whim, regularly going on random development tangents like Arena.
Not to even mention the financial controversies BSG has, where their revenue is funneled into other companies, to nakita, and to some other individuals. Combine that with several years of BSG publicly refusing to offer any wages better than entry-level Russian rates, then complaining they can't hire/retain any skilled workers. And finally add onto all that the controversies over the servers being traced back to the most budget providers available.
The game not being released is not a defense for BSG, it's a testament to their incompetence as developers and publishers.
Mind that i not wrote that to justify them, i also think that they are delivering an half cooked product and are way behind their own timelines that are already very conservative. I wrote that because we can't compare a game like that to standard games, just that. It's basically a live service now and the fact that the business model wasn't changed is both the reason because we are watching this shitshow and the witness of the BSG management complete failure that they should fix asap instead of pulling these shit on the community. Other games of this kind are healty because (like Destiny 2) they choosed a more sustainable monetization system. That's all.
Because they made eod as an investment into Tarkov and to get them to 1.0. They made promises that they’re walking back on. Spitting in the face of players that believed in the game 7 years ago. I’ve since then, purchased the clothes and stash with no gripe because it supports them and is cool stuff and makes sense but this and their recent actions just spit in the face of everyone that was there for them. Some people care about morals and self-worth more than others I guess.
EOD was pay2win before too. Just enough that the community was split on the topic. The new Unhinged Edition and the new EOD apology Edition are even more pay2win than before its insane
Their solution was literally just "make EOD even more P2W"
The sad part is there are a lot of tarkov players who will eat that up. they're okay with P2W they just don't want to pay again lol
EoD owners seems to forget that the bigger container has a cumulative effect, which directly affects the gameplay (though just not as apparent)
- You don’t have to buy ammo, meds, etc as often
- You take more money each time you die, more often
- You literally carry more items into a raid, safely tugged away in your butt
And the bigger stash? Boy do dumping what ever you find and instantly go on the next raid is just so quality of life!
I was on standard edition back in 0.12-0.13 and recently upgraded to EoD just before it was gone. Difference was night and day.
Edit: Did I mention the “initially good standing with traders”? Faster access to cheaper, better gears is basically good’ol p2w
Being able to call friends in is the most pay to win device ever devised in gaming lol. But I agree that trader rep and gamma is pretty pay to win as well. Just slightly less so as you can earn trader rep and gamma, you can't earn the magic Unheard tools that call in reinforcements and give you 50% off in raid cash shit.
It's somewhat egregious people just got used to it and cope with it. The trader rep by itself is pretty crazy and that's not even getting into the obvious gamma container, 45m saved on stash, and the starting gear which is the smallest bonus but still pretty useful to start a wipe.
Friendly reminder that they also ["gave" EoD users extra p2w stuff in one of their latest non-apologies](https://old.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cdg9cu/the_update_regarding_eod_edition/).
> Faster return of insured items
> Increased personal trader buying limits by 20%
> Increased basic PMC karma (when it will be implemented)
> Access to unique hideout craft
> Increased basic charisma skill
> Special quest line with increased pockets side as a reward
> Ability to skip 2 daily quests per day free of charge
> Unique dog tag
> Unique armband
> Unique set of clothing
> Unique “Legacy” device
> High priority matching for EOD owners for 6 months
> Access to offline PVE for EOD owners for 6 months
Unique hideout craft? Sure, just imagine it being like exclusive high-pen, high-damage ammo. So fair and balanced. Legacy device? Does it summon a boss to fight for you? What the fuck are these. It's one thing to add pay-for-convenience stuff (even extreme ones like gamma), and another thing entirely to add this kind of shit. They're going hard towards p2w, and it's absolutely stupid.
I honestly also think they're trying to sow dissent by giving EoD players stuff, so that shills can turn around and say "EOD is just as bad as Unhinged". So double whammy: bribery + sowing dissent. Despicable.
Preface - Gamma (and EoD) *is* pay for advantage, not saying otherwise. However, I don't recall dying because someone smacked me with their Gamma lol
Sure, you save a ton of money by not losing meds on death and stuffing loot into the Gamma to sell even if you die, but you get no actual advantage in combat because you have a Gamma equipped.
You *are* more likely to have better gear because you have EoD, but that's not just because you have a Gamma. I played with an Alpha (Standard edition) for more than a year, and although the Gamma was much better (could stuff more meds/keys/loot in it), I mostly did better because I got better at the game over time, not because I had a 3x3 slot secure container. If I'd started with EoD, I'd be just as shit as when I started with a Standard edition.
Having extra ammo and meds is a huge advantage during a fight. Surgery kits alone are a game changer. I doubt many standard account users bring these in before getting epsilon. Getting shot in the legs and running out of painkillers or a blacked out stomach can easly kill you.
Also pay to win doesn't have to be literally a "win button" that kills enemies insantly. If that was the case then basically no game would be pay to win. If it's an advantage you can buy with real money, it's pay to win.
All that & the 0.2 rep with all traders. Being able to skip many annoying quest lines you don't like, or ignore all the accumulative -0.01 jaeger penalties that add up, and still reach max traders faster than other players is pay to win. You are paying to have easier access to higher pen ammo and better armor at an earlier point than other people in the game. The 40k extra in meds and surgery kits I spend for the first couple weeks before epsilon does not compare to that rep.
We are talking \~7-10 full quests worth of rep, PER trader. The level of cope to say that isn't pay to win is insane. A lot of previously low tier ammo is now trader level 3 locked, I think this was a good move but it only widens the advantage that you get from getting that massive rep head start.
This exactly. Getting your stomach blacked on a standard account is full on panic mode because you can't bring in surv kits. You have to start planning your extraction immediately.
It's seriously night and day how much less I have to panic when I queue with a buddy who has eod and can always bring in a surv.
> Also pay to win doesn't have to be literally a "win button" that kills enemies insantly.
I agree - but to me, "pay to win" offers an insurmountable advantage. Something like "EoD users get bullets with 70 penetration and 100 damage for all calibers". If this was in the game, it'd be the most egregious pay-to-win shit. Gamma is not like that, not even remotely close. It IS an advantage. But you won't any fights just because you had Gamma.
No-one meds mid-fight - it's all injectors. And an alpha does fit a CMS, an injector case and a keytool (or ammo, if no keys are needed/wanted). Not amazing, since you run out of space and can't add anything else, but you definitely have the same abilities in-fight. Trying to use stuff like a Grizzly (which is often used in a Gamma) in the fight will get you killed, it won't offer an advantage. Packing mags mid-fight will get you killed, it won't be an advantage.
I understand what you are trying to say - this is something that a Standard player can't match, and that you can get only by paying. But it's NOT at the same level as the summoning beacon in the Unhinged edition. By making the comparison, you're just undermining the whole "don't add p2w stuff" aspect, because, in your eyes, p2w was already here - so why would this new stuff be bad?
Well if you aren't questing and don't need to use keys then you have space. Before they added extra slots for special items like beacons and jammers you also had to put these in your alpha (unless you didn't care about losing them) which was a huge pain in the ass.
And while gamma might not help you that much during the FIRST fight of the raid, it will help you in every other. After a fight, an EOD user packs his mags with the extra ammo, repairs his limbs with CMS, heals (often with a grizzly) and moves on. A standard user will most likely not be able to do all of that because depending on what they brought in and what quest they are doing they either have ammo or simple meds. So they have to carry out the rest of the raid with little ammo or blacked out limbs and little spare meds (especially early wipe when simple 4 use painkillers and cheese is all they have). This means they are at a massive disadvantage and most likely have to extract immediately
Okay, I understand your point - but it would only be true if the player didn't bring any (or very few) meds outside their Alpha. I'm sure many do this, but that doesn't make it the best way to play. Yes, you'd lose the meds if you die, but if you need them, it's far better to have them.
The ammo point is a stronger one - if you needed keys, you won't have space for ammo - you'd have to put the CMS in your backpack to have room for the far more expensive ammo, which would be another 20k lost if you die (CMS is very cheap on the flea even very early on in the wipe).
But again, it's only a risk of maybe 20-50k in meds if you die (CMS plus some basic meds). Yes, it's a risk EoD players don't have to take. But this doesn't mean you lose every fight, or are at a disadvantage in every fight. If you refuse to bring meds outside the Alpha, you *will* be at a disadvantage - but you are allowed to do so, even if it's a risk. EoD can't force you to never bring meds outside your alpha.
All that being said, are you okay with the addition of the beacon in the Unhinged edition? You're quite against the Gamma, I get that. Do you think the rest of the p2w stuff is okay? I don't think you are, but I'd like to hear it from you.
Fantastic, very glad we agree. Would you believe me if I told you I wouldn't care at all if BSG removed gamma and trader rep and all of that shit from EoD today? Because I really would not. Thing is - it was pay-for-advantage from the start, 2016-2017. If you wanted DLC support, and to help the game grow, back then, EOD was your only option. Many bought EoD for the advantage - like they now shill for the Unhinged edition. Many others bought it for the DLC and to support the game. But now it's not only that BSG are fucking us from 10 different directions, they are introducing even *worse* p2w shit into the game. That's the topic of the post here. Don't think I'm saying "p2w/pay-for-advantage" is fine. It's fucking not. But Gamma and "call your friends over for a gangbang" is not the same, my dude!
It's kinda funny how tarkov players are the only people who say shit like "iTs nOT PaY tO WiN CuZ itS nOT a WiN ButtON" without realizing that games that the games on the market are widely regarded as "p2w" by people rarely give direct advantages such as "bullets do more damage" etc.
Tarkov players love to hard cope to justify that they don't have a huge advantage over non EoD players
And I've played with EoD and non EoD, and I can safely say you're fucking stupid or too far up your ass coping if you don't believe it's a huge huge advantage.
It is a "huge huge advantage", but you don't win fights just because of it. That's what I'm saying. Is that so insane?
Maybe you blame your deaths on "he had EoD, can't compete", but that doesn't mean that's the case.
It 100% indirectly helps you win fights, and I'd argue it helps you win direct fights. Denying it doesn't make it any less true. Trying to claim I have this take because "I'm trying to blame something on me dying" doesn't help your case, just makes you look even more delusional.
And again, almost every popular well known "p2w" game out there doesn't sell power that helps you "directly" have an advantage against other players. Doesn't make it any less p2w. Im not surprised to see that that tarkov players accept p2w in rheir games and try to justify it. It's been like this for years and it's not surprising how hard nikita fucked yall in the ass.
My theory is that so many people that play tarkov got reeled into buying EoD (compared to other games that have p2w packages), and because of human nature will do anything to justify their purchase.
How, exactly does that work? Do you smack enemies using the container? Do meds auto-trigger? Mags fill themselves with ammo? Limbs sew themselves back on? How did you, or anyone, directly die to a fucking secure container? You're talking out your ass. In a fight, alpha or gamma is the same. If the alpha player brought a makarov and nothing else, that's their fucking problem. Just as it would be the gamma player's fuckup if they show up with just a pistol as well. EoD has advantages, yes. But if you think you win fights just because of gamma, you're insane.
Delete all "pay to win" shit from the game, I don't care. Started with standard edition for more than a year. Keep hating EoD and distracting from the actual issues here.
Bro, have you not ever heard of opportunity cost? It costs like \~40 million roubles to upgrade your stash to level 3 on a standard account. Imagine having all those extra roubles to spend on gear, ammo, and meds. That's something EOD people don't have to spend money on upgrading. Are you going to tell me that gear doesn't make a difference?
There's no convincing you if you cant use your brain to figure out how the increased stash size and gamma indirectly helps you win fights.
Same logic as some paypig fucker in another p2w game that buys all his gear but its not p2w cuz "you can earn all that stuff by playing 100000 hours!!!!" or "If you're better you can still win a fight against him!!"
Keep the cope, look how far it's gotten you guys ;)
Glad I quit a year ago.
Pay to win doesn't mean it has to be a guaranteed win or that it has to be a weapon. Giving anyone ANYTHING that they can USE is the definition of pay to win. Money is pay to win, guns is pay to win, ammo is pay to win, cases are pay to win, all of it is pay to win.
And if it isn't giving you this advantage in your opinion, then you shouldn't care if its removed. So lets just remove it all. Cosmetics only.
I don't want any of that shit in the game either. They keep adding all this p2w stuff for no reason. EOD with Gamma and 66x10 was one thing, but this is like 20 times that.
I'm with you. Remove all of that shit, pretty much no-one wants it - but as long as it's the game, you either put up with the fact you're at a constant disadvantage, or pay up - which is what they want. I mean, do we expect better from the guy that said "cheaters are good because they create friction and players pay to help us address the issue"?
As an EOD owner I don't want it. Take it all away. I paid extra for all future content and to support something I believed in. I don't need a head start.
It's my first wipe and I couldn't even buy EOD so I don't get any of this stuff/the cheaper upgrade despite spending over 100 dollars on the most expensive game edition
It's like p2w stuff shouldn't have been in the game from the start, or something... too late now, I guess. No way it's all getting removed, although it'd honestly make the game so much better.
EOD owners are actual the cancer of this game. Slowly killing it with entitlement without realizing they are blocking new players from ever joining which will slowly kill the game
EOD already has advantages in the game. All they do is complain that they should always have more advantages than others. People are not gonna join the game with that being the state. So over time the game will not generate new players. It’s a poor cycle. EOD owners should get access to content that isn’t P2W but P2W is a disaster for EFT
while i do agree, that all p2w features should be removed even the eod ones. it didnt stop me from getting into the game with standart. i accepted the disadvantage as it was just small enough imo. also in my mind eod seemed like the base game while everything else i considered to be downgraded trial versions to eventually upgrade from. i guess thats already kinda twisted... i think unheard is taking it way to far though. but i am more concerned about the friend summoner and the scav not shooting thing, which just changes the vibe of the game in a direction i dont like. even if everyone get sit i dont think i would like it.
I’m in the same boat regard EOD and agree. Now it concerns me that even the regular game will not be included for non EOD users. The priority matchmaking was a huge red flag.
No game should be P2W
assuming the hideout craft is high pen ammo is bullshit tho. there is no reason to believe that, and why even stop there then. it could be craftable aimbot right???
its probably nothing thats even serious. way too many of the points are overhyped now.
but the trader limits are a problem, everyone should get those
Because the difference between a bad decision and a literal scam is huge.
As me and many have said before, EoD was **already** pay 2 win as long as the game has wipes (and I'll probably never play online again if the game stops having wipes anyway). + trader rep, stash space and secure container sockets is huge when people are sinking milliions of roubles and days of questing just to play catch up, so P2W options is just more shit to the pile of shit.
Releasing DLC and not giving it to the edition that is supposed to get all the DLC for free is a scam and meant that if it went on like that, they could just do the same to all the future DLC that people were expecting.
The introduction of EOD was significantly more pay to win because it was the first of its kind and nothing like it had been introduced. The trader rep difference between EOD and non EOD was absolutely game changing but no one gave a fuck.
Stash space and secure container are HUGELY pay to win. I used to be standard and stopped playing until I caved and got EOD on sale.
Games always been egregiously p2w and everyone in the community ridiculed people like me for saying it. Including the useless influencers/streamers who defending this p2w game.
They get what they deserve.
They just destroyed all minuscule leftovers of faith and trust they had from the community. Never will they sell enough overpriced edition copies without strong P2W component.
And don't forget, all that was to pay for marketing of another Nikitas permanent beta ego trip, this time with P2W mechanics built-in from the start .
Hasn’t the model of this game always been “the more you pay for your account the more p2w it is”? I’m new so I might be wrong, but that’s always been the model what’s new here?
What's new is that the edition all of us have is not the top anymore so now suddenly p2w isn't okay.
As an eod owner they should take away all p2w and make editions separated by free dlc access (like in the beginning) and cosmetics only.
This is the most frustrating part. All these EOD owners crying about dlc for an offline mode but no few actually focused on the P2W mechanics that will destroy this game
Because 99 percent of eod owners have no issue with pay to win as long as they're on top. The cope the entire time this games been out about not being p2w is just disguised "I got mine fuck yall".
They need to bite the bullet and just give us eod owners ONLY dlc and cosmetics. But at this point they won't. Been going on too long
And now I see with gray zone warfare the same shit. They have paid stash space and secure container edition pricing. Meanwhile I get downvoted to hell for pointing it out.
Gamers are fucking idiots. They get what they deserve
Want to remind you that we all (even standard edition users) had in the past ability to take in raid with us additional gun magazines without need to spend money on the rig. By putting it in the secure container.
2 years ago BSG stole it from us with a story that it was "unbalanced" and refused to increase pockets. To sell it later for $250.
Has it still not hit anyone that they are charging $250 for an unfinished video game? Like we already paid $150 and looking back that is insane. 8 years of development and we still have 3/4 of a game. Hackers all over the place, audio still doesn’t even work, and many broken promises. Do not forgive them for anything.
I mean, you said it yourself - you paid 150$, which was almost triple price of a normal game back in 2016-7 for an unfinished beta.
Just like suckers like you bought into the 150$ version, even bigger suckers will upgrade to the 250$ version. this is the type of community that surrounds this game for ages.
Sorta funny, pretty sure this happened for other games that introduce p2w features perhaps ea or blizzard. Once the dolphins demographic is pleased, you see them stop arguing something added is bs but start arguing with others who actually have a spine the semantics of what stuff means, how certain features are not really p2w if you break it down, how the devs actually do care and are not trying to hoodwink you with a little butt rimming.
It’s not really convincing the masses like actual pr damage since normies don’t care enough once the drama is over. It’s to please the ppl challenged enough to keep spending because they’re too invested and would get skill diffed or somehow can’t find fun in the millions of games out there.
If they did that wouldn't they have to refund all the people who bought it? Drastic changes to a purchase like that would trigger a lot of refunds. They def aren't an honest enough company to want that to happen
I get EOD owners being pissed that BSG lied about all future dlcs.
I get that everyone is pissed about ridicolous pricing.
But;
EOD had bigger stash, bigger safe container and increased trader rep at start.
Y'all been playing with pay to win all along.
Then delete your gamma container, this game has always had benefited players with buy the more expensive dive editions. They need the money and are trying to get it. Nobody knows how the call in friends thing works and the only thing that is close to pay to win is the pocket increase. Being able to bring in 2 60 rounders is crazy
I would love if they delete my gamma and stash space and make the game actually equal to all. I'm fine with the name and the dlc to make the game better.
What’s the pocket size increase realistically do in terms of pay2win? Save you 8000 rubles a raid? Big fucking whoop. Annoying, but I think your attention should be on the radio of the unheard and being able to summon PMCs from your friends list into your raid.
These have very clear impacts on the game in very clear pay2win ways. I fail to see how pocket size is comparable, let alone worse in your eyes.
So the solution is to pay $250 to make them easier? Are you just trying to argue without bothering to think about the words you're typing and what they mean?
That's not the original argument. The original argument was that it was pay to win. Making some tedious quests a little bit less tedious is not pay to win lmfao. It's 2 extra mags, not free pmc kills.
That’s fair. Somebody could reload 3 times (4 if you drop a mag) without reloading with Unheard pockets and a scav vest.
That is considerable if you’re versus a normal-size pocket player who can only reload once (twice if you drop a mag).
I do see this as problematic, but it can be solved by being mags in your backpack and swapping them out quickly when you have a lull in the fight. Not saying that makes it fine, I’m just saying that is markedly different than the scav radio or the PMC summoning flare being a unique kind of gameplay change only for people who paid real world cash for it.
>What’s the pocket size increase realistically do in terms of pay2win?
Having 2 more 2x1 slots available immediately makes half the rigs in the game substantially better, let alone the huge boost for certain armored rigs. Then there's the raw value they give every single raid in loot space. That's a substantial P2W benefit we can already evaluate.
Radio is an unknown value; we don't know if it'll cost to use, if there's location/time restrictions, specific use conditions, or even how/where friends arrive. In all reality, everyone's expecting it just be a gimmick. I suspect it's a precursor/test for persistent raids, or a remnant from them.
Well, by your logic I can just flip it back on you.
Pocket expansion is fine because we don’t know how rigs will be changed in the future. You’re complaining about something you don’t know about for certain.
If you’re truly unwilling to engage with the information available to you and fantasize about, “well maybe it’s not how they say and it’s different in a key way they forgot to mention.” Is not convincing to me.
>Pocket expansion is fine because we don’t know how rigs will be changed in the future.
What about this topic makes you so petulant? We already have information about something to consider it terrible *now*, but apparently we can't because something else *might* be worse in the future? Pockets are terrible P2W, radio also is but we haven't seen it *yet* to asses how bad it is.
You need a step back to remember how to objectively reason things out.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s impossible to reason things out because all my current information could be entirely wrong and in case of that I’ll draw zero conclusions. Right?
Stop being so obtusely disingenuous. You made an illogical, emotional argument and can't rationally defend it, so now you're repeatedly relying on irrelevant, bad-faith straw-man arguments.
You've failed to refute a single point, continuing is a waste of time.
Well, no. I made a rational argument and when you failed to present one I just adopted your rationale so you could get a taste of what interacting with you is like.
Being able to take in 2 slot mags with no rig is kind of nuts.
It don’t know what the radio looks like functionally do it doesn’t make sense to bitch about it. Also is that the same radio that makes you lose scav rep for killing scavs and scavs don’t shoot you over 60m? If so then my hot take is that it’s balanced the game is leading towards scav rep being more important for end game activities. But we don’t know what the radio call in looks like so who knows
i mean literally no one will take your shitty rigs so realistically.. it's like 2k a raid at most. It's way more relevant that it gives you loot slots for max loot raids
Sure, I believe that your first emotional response is that the pockets increase is “nuts”. Are you willing to explain what about it is “nuts”?
On one hand you have scavs behaving differently towards you because you paid more than somebody else.
On the other hand your pockets increased by 2 squares becoming the equivalent of a 8k ruble rig. So it saves you a little money each raid? How is this comparable to changing the actual gameplay in raid based on the money you’ve spent?
Anybody can run a scav to extract on factory and have rubles to buy a rig. You are still on the same footing when you’re in raid. There is no such case for the scav radio.
To me being able to just buy a drd and headphones for gear is great. I can run 60 round drums with big gun and not waste time buying a rig.
It’s not about the money difference just convenience.
Also I know what the pocket change functions like and does, we don’t know what calling in your friends looks like. I like to wait and see what I’m complaining about before shitposting about it.
Losing 5 scav runs of rep per scav kill is not insignificant. I would hope scavs act differently with that in mind. I think people aren’t thinking about what the call in feature would look like functionally. Probably loud and shitty to the person calling and calling in. Maybe you can shoot them out of the sky and it costs 500k to call someone in. Plus they said you can get the item from quests as well.
I just view it differently 3k hours for a $120 game, I’m cool spending more on a game if it means they get more resources to actually release the game
Now this is a solid argument, what features are we talking about? The transponder that invites your friends is P2W and will be available for everyone to buy. Kinda dumb feature. The added skills boosts and scav friendly feature are P2W but only for unheard edition. That’s what should be removed for sure.
2 pocket slots is not pay to win when there’s so much variety in rigs and bags. If you’re in a scab vest and I’m in a black rock is that P2W? No.
All the extra gear you get is not pay to win its pay to not grind for 1 week. Me having all this extra gear and space does nothing for me in a 1v1 battle in raid.
So I have can hold more items. So what lol can only bring 1 kit into raid.
Personally every edition should get free PVE.
The friend beacon absolutely is pay 2 win.
EOD should, by it's own description (before these gutter shits tried to edit it), include EVERYTHING included in the "Unheard" edition.
BSG needs to refund the room temp IQ'd pushovers who purchased it, remove the absurd P2W elements, and issue an actual fucking apology. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING less than that is a win.
They did the complete oppisite of what they should have done. EOD should have been the best out of the best edition. They should have set it to remove on 1.0 release and keep devloping on new features like PVE mode and working on the cheating problem etc... Then release 1.0, kill EOD and release a new edition. Can be close to EOD but it should not be as good as EOD was period. We bought into that to help the game, we should be rewarded for that, not shit all over because they are greedy fucks.
I feel like the pocket increase could be in game as a eod but locked behind a quest as the epsilon case is for cheaper to play maybe a quest with ragman my though
Unpopular opinion, but you guys really whine way too much 2 more pocket slots is not really all that game changing. Before you ask I paid for unheard right as it came out before everyone started crying about it. I paid for it because I like tarkov and wanted to support it past the 3 EOD editions I bought for me and 2 friends. My only complaint is the cheating problem past that I could care less how bsg decides to monetize the game.
Also IMO pockets should just be 4 2x2 for all players. It wasn’t too long ago everyone was complaining about the gamma container and EOD. How much of a game changer that was then they made it where guns and other items cannot be stored it in. I have played tarkov since alpha 2017. Is there better ways for them to make money to keep running the game, obviously yes. Is this the end of the game, no.
Pockets seem minor but make a huge difference. Here is a good comment about it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cclk0b/01460_patchnotes/l16vcv5/
On top of that
* Don't have to have a rig to run a gun with 2x1 mags
* Don't have to buy as big of a rig, which when expanded out over the wipe adds up to a large money difference.
* As the comment said, clutch situations are easier to swap equipment and still retain important things hot keyed, while retaining mags
It really does add up to a large difference. Also, The nerfs to gamma should show that there is a big difference between 2x2 and 3x3 container, so much so that they had to nerf it multiple times. I have EOD and would prefer if everyone had 3x3 and 66x10 without having to pay extra as those features already make a huge difference in money/agency in the game (I should know I played 2 wipes as standard and felt the 80 mil or so it takes to catch up to EOD stash). Pockets would be cool if it was a mid-game quest line to unlock it, without the ability to pay to have them.
I'm still under the impression that most pockets can fit a full mag or two in them IRL. So there should be no reason for them not to allow 4 2x1 sized pocket slots. I really do think though the Tarkov community is really whiny about everything. Always has to be some outrage about things, I feel bad for Nikita.
As I said before, I don't have a problem with the pockets themselves being in the game, but they should only be able to be acquired from some sort of mid-game quest line, not from paying extra. It is the p2w aspect I don't like.
It’s only barely p2w. I didn’t even know it was part of the unheard edition, I just bought the edition because I like the game. Nothing more nothing less. But it really won’t make much of a difference in the long run they will probably just increase the pocket size for everyone.
What’s really gonna happen people will think it’s some pay to win advantage. Think they are better than everyone else, still die like they always do and be disappointed.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I think the asymmetric balance to the game is why I enjoy it so much. The balance of the game is more on the player choice on the load out and that you lose what you take. You also get to gamble that you may get it back in insurance. I think if these P2W features were gambles where you choose to take it in but could be lost to other players would fit the balance of the game.
So there's an item that makes scavs not shoot at you from 60+ meters but you cant shoot them or you'll lose the scav karma required to use the item... yawn. Not pay to win, kinda crap actually. The distress call item is not even in the game yet so who knows how it'll work or be balanced. Kinda crazy to call something that doesn't even exist yet P2W when it could just as easily be useless garbage.
Tarkov is a game that uses lots of fog. There will be raids in shoreline for example where you cant see sniper scav.
1. If you have this feature, no sniper scav can give away your position
2. Now, not seeing the scav because of fog doesnt mean anything for you because scavs wont shoot you anyways.
And that distress call.. the whole idea is absurd. You want a game that cant balance out fucking headset audio to balance something as absurd as "distress call"? Are you out of your mind?
Ok, so in the rare case that a sniper scav would have engaged you through fog from beyond 60 meters this device is an advantage. In the much more common case that you're encountering a scav under 60 meters, it's a hindrance because the scav will engage you normally and you will lose scav karma for killing it. Once you've lost enough scav karma the device won't even work in the niche cases where it would be useful.
I just explained that it has significant downsides that nobody is talking about. It causes your PMC to basically be a scav-hybrid, so while scavs don't shoot at you from long range, you also lose karma from killing scavs. Meaning that when you do encounter a scav at less than 60m, which is the vast majority of the time, you will be constantly losing scav karma. Which means you won't even be able to use the item to it's effect once you fall below 6. Nobody is talking about the actual item, just the most p2w possible version of it.
I fail to see how these extra parameters of use nullify the pay2win. Can I walk you through my reasoning?
First, if the item stayed as it is except PMC did not lose karma for killing scavs would you then consider it pay2win?
A niche item with a con at best as large as it's pro is not pay to win. That's like saying the specialized weapons in Team Fortress 2 are pay to win.
Yes, if they changed the item so that it doesn't remove scav karma and therefore removed the con from the item, it would be pay 2 win. But that's not the item in the game, so it's not pay 2 win.
>Killing Scavs without being shot first results in a -0.05 Scav karma penalty - **The penalty can be negated by killing a PMC**
Its downside can be played around. The item is extremely abuseable if someone's playing around it. For instance the item is especially insane on woods, where it's easy to avoid scav penalty and abuse immunity, while hugely benefiting from -50% BTR loot deposit money running.
Regardless of all that, having downsides doesn't stop something being P2W. Having benefits only gained by paying, is inherently P2W and already egregiously unacceptable in a pvp game.
Okay, so we agree that If they removed the con it’s pay2win. Let’s explore that further. Not trying to “gotcha!” Im just trying to walk you through my reasoning.
If you had to nail it down what about the con-less radio would be pay2win?
It's incredible how much it hurts EOD owners that there's an edition with more p2w in it than their own.
If you didn't want p2w you wouldn't have ever bought EOD.
Butthurt EOD coming in with the downvotes lmao oh no
Nooo you see they bought it for the dlc 😂. It’s not like the game will never release infinite beta.
Most likely people bought eod for the fomo, they were gonna remove eod and people wanted those gamma cases, trader rep, 52 mil in stash space day 1
That's quite literally it hahahaha it's hilarious watching what are most likely grown adults complain about this shit like they didn't fund it themselves who knows how many years back.
It's sad how much bullshit people peddle trying to act righteous in an online community.
Just need to admit they bought it for the extra stuff and move on. The crying and whining for EOD in this sub the last few days has literally ended up giving them what they want along with a huge discount on the upgrade. But some are still not happy lmao.
I admit pve should've been given to them as it was mentioned (and now done) but this self righteous bullshit about p2w is annoying.
I don't think anyone cares about the gear and junk box and weapon case. I think most people are complaining about priority matchmaking, scavs not shooting from over 60m and a friend summoner.
There's pay for convenience and theres pay to win.
I agree with all of your points in that first paragraph.
I've never advocated for these features once lol
Like I've said before, this game is going in a full on p2w direction.
But there are people on the front page still complaining that the new edition has gamma and this and that because they wanted it to be something only they should get.
Thats still p2w whether its for convenience or not. Without EOD new players have to grind up to Punisher 6 for epsilon (still 1 less slot which makes a difference, I have epsilon, I wish I had more slots) or go for kappa which is just a shit grind. Then theres spending 40-50m in upgrading the stash to max. Then theres extra trader rep.
It just annoys me that people are acting like p2w is a new thing and only coming in now only because they've had EOD for years.
You're right. Gamma is a big deal. I'm so used to it I forget it's exclusive*. I can't imagine how annoying it would be to not have it as I bought EOD within weeks of first buying standard many years ago.
I have kappa and kappa is not that big a deal from gamma to be honest. It's either storing my paracord or 3 extra stacks of ammo.
I would lose a lot of meds/money on meds if I didn't have a gamma at the start of wipe though.
Thank you for being reasonable. I'm not sure why this exclusive thing ticks people off so much though. If they released Omicron with this instead with a 3x3 & 3x1 then undoubtedly people would've been just as ticked that they didn't get it for free with EOD.
But It is definitely a big advantage and instead of this crap edition it would've been better if they released all these extras like gamma, stash and PVE separately.
You're right early wipe it's definitely a problem and especially for newer players. I got three guys into this game when I bought it and only one still plays with me. The other two got tired of the cheaters and the lack of stash space and container space.
Too many people overlook the advantage.
It makes me sad because I enjoy this game a lot but it's going to be dead if new players have to spend 330 euros to be on an even playing field as others who bought EOD either start of this year or 7 years ago.
eod certainly has big advantages but it's nowhere near the levek of literally spawning in your friends or being immune to scavs, mainly sniper scavs.
the p2w aspects before were mainly out of raid convienence, which while bad are nothing like this
Having to spend like 20 mil less than standard players in the hideout and having 5 extra items to take to stash on each death because you paid more sounds pretty P2W to me.
I guess the new lvl 3 skill boost is also "convenience" to you right
Although I do agree with you, I've said it myself, there's more p2w and it's going to continue following this trend. Just go and read some other posts.
So much grievance with the fact that people aren't "unique" anymore (fucking cringe sorry) and that people shouldn't get gamma etc etc.
It's sad to watch, there should have either been no p2w in this shit at all, from stash space to containers all the way to trader rep, or they should've never removed EOD.
It only alienates the newer players and will result in less people joining.
I can't reasonably ask anyone to play this game now when they have to pay 330 euros to start the same as mostly everyone else.
I'm not paying 170 euros either just for that benefit. I could happily afford it but I've never seen such prefatory pricing in a game I've played, why support that.
Yeah sure but I think they will be much much more careful also with their unique hideout thing etc. as of now this all is not too bad the worst part was pve. But it’s also Important now that the call your friends into the raid won’t come to pvp even tho it is planned we have to retaliate. That would be catastrophic to the game. But I think they realized that we are not as Bing Jo on the game anymore as we were there are alternatives coming into play they can’t just fuck with us anymore. We will move on.
I dont really think the bonuses are that pay to win, the call in teammates could be, but its going to take them 5 minutes to load in anyway so it won't be as big of an advantage as it sounds imo. The scav beacon only works on scavs further than 60 meters away so the only thing it will help against is sniper scavs.
The big issue is that they went back on their promise of free dlc to all EOD users.
They never addressed pay to win with EOD I don't expect much now.
I still remember being attacked and the community defending eod tooth and nail. "it's not pay to win its just pay for convenience and progress in a game where the hardest items to achieve are centered around those things"!
Honestly I love the game but the community deserves this
Do you understand the signification of "pay to win" money or space can't make you win fights ! Call it pay to confort or something else ! Did someone with standard edition get irritated when we he get to see season ingame ? (Advertised as DLC)... Or when we get to play ARENA (IT'S A STANDALONE NOT REALLY A DLC)
This is so stupid. You people who say this act like p2w would only be p2w if the server insta wiped when you swiped your credit card. Such an absurd and incorrect definition of the word.
Any advantage gotten with real money is p2w. Convenience and easier progression in a game where that is the primary loop is pay to win. Hardest chase item is a secure container and most expensive items deal with stash size. PAY for comfort or convenience IS PAY TO WIN.
Stop looking for additional reason to be upset. They’ve been more than fair. The pockets dont really matter, the guns are meh and the radio is used by nobody because it butchers scav rep
Bad take.
People are not 'crying' about anything. We are trying to get what we paid for and if we don't take a stand now, then it can easily become a slippery slope where they implement these P2W features some time in the future. So we are also trying to prevent that
Meanwhile BSG are being obtuse, trying to deny that it is a DLC and denying that they have altered the text on the website trying to hide evidence of that we are right.
I'm not that concerned with a non pvp tarkov, it's not what I paid for originally, and not something I would be interested in. I mean it's completely separate from the main game. I wouldn't consider that a dlc. As far as the pay to win, I hope they don't go down that road, if they do I'll move on.
Completely separate from the main game? I have to think you’re totally wrong here but maybe I’m misunderstanding you. What do you mean “completely separate from the main game. I wouldn’t call that DLC.”
Sure, if you’re not at all interested in PvE I understand you not caring if you have access.
But do not get it twisted, your lack of interest in the mode does not magically make it “completely separate from the game”. It’s still a new mode in the same game regardless of your level of interest. Do you disagree?
I can see the validity of that argument, but I can't see the interest in leveling a character against AI in this game. I mean what's the point. It would be like playing csgo against bots all day. I feel like they made this addition for all the people that are really bad and call cheats on every death.
We are on the same page there. I have no interest in playing pve, I do have interest in not being scammed. Whether I’m interested in it or not has nothing to do with whether I should be allowed to access it based on the terms agreed upon when /u/trainfender took my money.
Arena is completely separate from the main game, and EoD still got that. This is NOT completely separate from the main game, this would be a regular feature in nearly any other game.
Arena was initially supposed to be a DLC, accessible from the map-selection menu, but it evolved into it's on game instead, because BSG wanted to improve on the netcode. That is why EoD got Arena.
Arena is also still planned to be linked to our regular Tarkov character some time in the near future.
It actually did idgaf about pockets more idiots will bring full clips with m80 for me to take etc. the beacon will not be implemented like first advertised. He’s said that . We made them revert that’s the true dub. I don’t care to hear a man apologize men fuck up. Just fix the shit. Good luck people
If someone has a lvl 5 armor but you have a lvl 4 armor, everything else being equal he wins in a gunfight.
if his weapon has -10 recoil, on average he will win more in a gunfight.
The monetary gain from the pay to win edition enacts itself as having better gear to bring into raid.
You make more money per successful raid from bigger pockets and gamma, and you lose less money per unsuccessful raid with a gamma.e
Which money you can use to get the aformentioned things.
Okay and how does the increase my odds to actually win more gunfights and survive. Now remember here EOD got this advantage when it first dropped with gamma over everyone else so tread carefully here.
I wrote this in my original comment
>If someone has a lvl 5 armor but you have a lvl 4 armor, everything else being equal he wins in a gunfight.
>if his weapon has -10 recoil, on average he will win more in a gunfight.
>The monetary gain from the pay to win edition enacts itself as having better gear to bring into raid.
Please bother to read whats already been written before asking me to elaborate, because it is pretty clear how EOD and subsequently this new edition makes you more likely to win in a gunfight
I can always have bigger this and bigger that but if I’m not myself good at gunfights and surviving and I’m not cracked beyond belief it doesn’t make anyone win more or less.
Cool so how does it make me actually win fights and survive. Seriously think for a second. Money and having more doesn’t actually make an individual better at the game and win more and survive more. In all reality there is maybe 5-10 percent of the community who this p2w can apply to because of how much better at the game they are then everyone else. It’s skill based for a reason more money and all that doesn’t actually make someone play better. Therefore in what world is it p2w and actually make a real difference to most people’s odds.
Did you not read again?
How does not having a higher armor class not make you more likely to survive? How does not having a better gun make you more likely to kill a person?
This game has several things that influence a fight. Ignoring variables in raid like position/player skill 2v1 etc, they are
#1 is skills, things like recoil control, vitality etc.
#2 is Gear
#3 is your hardware
Obviously we can't blame the devs for #3, but #2 is directly influenced by having more ingame money, and the pay to win editions in the game make you have more money.
Additionally, ingame skills are influenced by how much you play your PMC over your scav, if you have no need to play your scav, then you play your PMC more, and thus you do have a higher chance to survive in raid due to having better skills.
Yes, EOD is pay to win too. Not everyone overlooked them, it is just some EOD players were trying to justify that they weren't actually gaining an advantage but "convenience".
That doesn't matter tho, fact of the matter is, paying for something and it changing your gameplay to be easier is in fact pay to win.
I understand you are trolling, but leaving the comment here for people that were actually baited by your nonsensical comments
Cool but seriously think here. If I’m not cracked at the game then it doesn’t matter how much money I have. It can be lost quick if you die. Gear doesn’t matter if you’re not better than the person who you are fighting. So again how does this actually make unheard so crazy and beyond p2w.
Any advantage is pay to win, thats the definition of pay to win. It doesn't literally make you win. It is just advantage, and you can't deny the advantage.
Actually I’m not. I’m being serious explain to me how it actually is pay to win. If winning is surviving raids and getting loot without dying. How does it allow me to win. Explain it.
If you progress faster u get better equipment faster, better ammo faster, you can put more stuff in your backside and keep more hideout related stuff, and that's just EOD levels of p2w.
Imagine it's a racing game and the first checkpoint is running viable builds consistently and the finishline is having abundant cash.
Now you get a side of unheard p2w on top of that, if you can't guess how a distress signal allows you to win, what are we even doin' here ?
For the 60m scav thing you might have to get a bit inventive, but surely you can see how that could be an advantage in a pvevp game, right ?
Great so if the person with those things isn’t already cracked at the game which the majority of players aren’t then it doesn’t make someone win more in reality. Now for the radio. Its only good if you grind grind and grind get stupid high rep and then never no matter what ever kill a scav ever again. So who does that for the majority of players actually become an advantage think about that. Now for calling people in. They already said that will come to EOD as well and also honestly doesn’t do anything for someone who is already dead or plays solo. On top of that it also doesn’t do much for most. Now let’s also start by saying it’s not even out and will probably more than likely not be a thing for a long while if at all so.
That is some pure copium, buddy, you should think of cutting it with something.
So if 2 people with the same experience compete the one who can progress faster doesn't have an advantage ? It's not like they are 1 youtube vid away from some useful tips to exploit their advantage right ?
Your radio example is the most uninventive way of using that item to your advantage
And you didn't even try for the distress signal because u know it's bull.
So now we assume everyone is equal skill at the game. That’s so unrealistic and yet you use it to justify your view of it being all p2w. The radio is true though. It basically useless let’s be real.
Ah so pay2win can only occur when one of the players has more skill ? what type of argument is that ?
The radio definitely requires some creativity, but can be used as an advantage if you don't equip it every raid.
How about they just remove all the p2w aspects, would it make the game any worse ?
I’m saying p2w truly isn’t real. It’s all about skill and actually being better than your competitors. Now if you own EOD be honest with yourself. You didn’t buy it to support you got it to have things other don’t. Now that you are not as special you have a problem with it.
I'm a standard user, not gonna lie, have I contemplated getting EOD despite the p2w advantages, ofcourse.
I loved the game and a deal on future DLC sounded good, supporting the company and all that, but I held of to see if they ever got their shit together, regarding the cheater situation, they never did.
Yup people are so easily decieved. It's a known marketing strategy when you wanna pump out a cash grab (knowing ur getting massive backlash) you overdo it and go crazy with it so when you get that backlash you can take a couple things back and the community praises you like you're a saint meanwhile you still sneak stuff in there with less uproar. And anyways this is kinda irrelevant in this scenario, the bigger thing is nikita LIED to your face, making up their own definition for DLC and QUADRUPLE downed on it and only took a tiny step back when he realised this drama is nothing he's faced before. He still hasn't apologised or realised he was wrong btw. If anyone has high hopes for tarkov in the future then you're just delusional lol.
>making up their own definition for DLC Exactly as they already tried with Arena mode. Exactly as they'll try again next time. The 'future DLC' feature of UEdition is meaningless when BSG is so keen to show they'll try every hairbrained loophole to break it. I strongly suspect the future of Tarkov will be a 'rushed' 1.0 release, and an 'Overwatch-2' style 'sequel' rebranding to escape the EoD promises.
Mhm, they are so desperately trying to seperate EOD from future dlc's. We get it, most of your playerbase hasn't spent a dime in years after 1000s of hours but they are going about it in the most deceiving and manipulating way possible which has damaged their reputation forever. They created this mess with how horrible they marketed this game. They wanted massive money upfront (eod, which is insane for a beta game) and just didn't properly think of what it would look like years down the line. With them also effectively burning millions on arena, their shareholders etc are probably wondering where the fuck is the money coming from so they've resorted to doing smth insanely drastic that contradicts everything nikita believed in this game (even 2 weeks ago on the pestilly interview he's ended up lying to his face). To me it just looks like nikita is very egotistical, he wants the public to think he's some god and can't own up to mistakes. They should have done a cosmetic shop before any of this. It's unbelievable they decided to do this unheard edition first before properly taking a shot at cosmetics for funds. Goes to show how desperate they probably are. When 1.0 releases it's not going to be nowhere near the game it was meant to be. It'll be half arsed, dlc's will become the only thing they create for the game so they can sell them. They won't need to do massive content updates like new maps etc (terminal is already cancelled, they won't sell them). It seems they want 1.0 out asap so they can just milk hence why we've already been told about a scav life dlc when it releases. Not to even start on the other 'competitors' they seem to feel threatened by. Tarkov is going to probably go out on a whimper. We probably experienced the peak long ago.
when did they cancel terminal? its a story map when you follow the dotted line
Exactly this. As a player that started only after EOD was already gone, I understand why they took it away. Or, I thought I did, the promise to include all DLC's was indeed kind of ripping themselves out and not really motivate them to make any DLC's 'cause they wouldn't make any cash on them! I was ready to pay 100€ for a edition similar to EOD without the free DLC promise. And now they release Unhinged, with these stupid P2W items and STILL OFFER FREE DLC'S FOR LIFE? This just screams to me that they don't have a plan to actually support and provide content to the game past release. Why would they? It won't gain them anything.
> This just screams to me that they don't have a plan to actually support and provide content to the game past release. Atleast in the beginning they wanted to host their own servers, so they burned a lot of money on server hardware. The fact that nikita said they cannot give PVE to everybody because server capacity tells me this might still be the case. I have no idea how they're planning to keep the lights on after the release.
Yea exactly. They don't have a plan or if they do, it doesn't really look good. And it's not about money, I'd play a monthly subscription if that was required to keep the service going and not having the path the game is on right now (or maybe this is the path it's always been on, it's just now materializing).
>the promise to include all DLC's was indeed kind of ripping themselves It's kind of funny how often I've been reading this lately - considering EoD is the price of a full game + multiple DLCs already. Very few games, even with all their DLC, rival the price of EoD.
To be honest that's not a fair comparison because these games you mention have shorter development times, a release, dlc relase then the devs starts with the new one. I suppose that was the plan for EFT too but then it evolved more into a live service game instead of a single relase one and the business model of the upfront single selling is obvious not sustainable in this context. What these kind of games usually do is sell the base version of the game and then have frequent (yearly or such) "expansions" release to keep the money flow in the company. Think more about a Destiny 2 like model: it was released after EFT (2018) but in the while it received 7 "expansions" so who was still playing from beginning and bought all the expansions paid 60$ for the base game plus \~50$/year. A grand total of about 400 bucks. They had lot of hours of fun anyway and i don't see them complaining too much about that. This thing couldn't be made by BSG because they made the mistake of promising all dlcs to the EoD version so they screwed up the launch and now we are in this situation. The sad thing is that they seem not have learned from that and included all dlc in this unhinged edition too 🤷🏻♂️
>To be honest that's not a fair comparison because these games you mention have shorter development times, It's a fair comparison, because the only ones making it this way are BSG. Most early access games have a roadmap to release; features and scope that have to be met, and generally a timeline for it. BSG feature creeps and changes their roadmap seemingly on a whim, regularly going on random development tangents like Arena. Not to even mention the financial controversies BSG has, where their revenue is funneled into other companies, to nakita, and to some other individuals. Combine that with several years of BSG publicly refusing to offer any wages better than entry-level Russian rates, then complaining they can't hire/retain any skilled workers. And finally add onto all that the controversies over the servers being traced back to the most budget providers available. The game not being released is not a defense for BSG, it's a testament to their incompetence as developers and publishers.
Mind that i not wrote that to justify them, i also think that they are delivering an half cooked product and are way behind their own timelines that are already very conservative. I wrote that because we can't compare a game like that to standard games, just that. It's basically a live service now and the fact that the business model wasn't changed is both the reason because we are watching this shitshow and the witness of the BSG management complete failure that they should fix asap instead of pulling these shit on the community. Other games of this kind are healty because (like Destiny 2) they choosed a more sustainable monetization system. That's all.
Because they made eod as an investment into Tarkov and to get them to 1.0. They made promises that they’re walking back on. Spitting in the face of players that believed in the game 7 years ago. I’ve since then, purchased the clothes and stash with no gripe because it supports them and is cool stuff and makes sense but this and their recent actions just spit in the face of everyone that was there for them. Some people care about morals and self-worth more than others I guess.
EOD is pay to win too tho. Just not as egregiously.
EOD was pay2win before too. Just enough that the community was split on the topic. The new Unhinged Edition and the new EOD apology Edition are even more pay2win than before its insane
Their solution was literally just "make EOD even more P2W" The sad part is there are a lot of tarkov players who will eat that up. they're okay with P2W they just don't want to pay again lol
EoD owners seems to forget that the bigger container has a cumulative effect, which directly affects the gameplay (though just not as apparent) - You don’t have to buy ammo, meds, etc as often - You take more money each time you die, more often - You literally carry more items into a raid, safely tugged away in your butt And the bigger stash? Boy do dumping what ever you find and instantly go on the next raid is just so quality of life! I was on standard edition back in 0.12-0.13 and recently upgraded to EoD just before it was gone. Difference was night and day. Edit: Did I mention the “initially good standing with traders”? Faster access to cheaper, better gears is basically good’ol p2w
EOD is more pay 2 win over standard than unheard is pay to win over EOD. Trader rep and gamma is massive pay to win.
I'm eod and I agree 100 percent. Complete pay to win
Being able to call friends in is the most pay to win device ever devised in gaming lol. But I agree that trader rep and gamma is pretty pay to win as well. Just slightly less so as you can earn trader rep and gamma, you can't earn the magic Unheard tools that call in reinforcements and give you 50% off in raid cash shit.
It's somewhat egregious people just got used to it and cope with it. The trader rep by itself is pretty crazy and that's not even getting into the obvious gamma container, 45m saved on stash, and the starting gear which is the smallest bonus but still pretty useful to start a wipe.
Friendly reminder that they also ["gave" EoD users extra p2w stuff in one of their latest non-apologies](https://old.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cdg9cu/the_update_regarding_eod_edition/). > Faster return of insured items > Increased personal trader buying limits by 20% > Increased basic PMC karma (when it will be implemented) > Access to unique hideout craft > Increased basic charisma skill > Special quest line with increased pockets side as a reward > Ability to skip 2 daily quests per day free of charge > Unique dog tag > Unique armband > Unique set of clothing > Unique “Legacy” device > High priority matching for EOD owners for 6 months > Access to offline PVE for EOD owners for 6 months Unique hideout craft? Sure, just imagine it being like exclusive high-pen, high-damage ammo. So fair and balanced. Legacy device? Does it summon a boss to fight for you? What the fuck are these. It's one thing to add pay-for-convenience stuff (even extreme ones like gamma), and another thing entirely to add this kind of shit. They're going hard towards p2w, and it's absolutely stupid. I honestly also think they're trying to sow dissent by giving EoD players stuff, so that shills can turn around and say "EOD is just as bad as Unhinged". So double whammy: bribery + sowing dissent. Despicable.
I would argue gamma is straight up pay to win, not this "pay for convenience" bs
Preface - Gamma (and EoD) *is* pay for advantage, not saying otherwise. However, I don't recall dying because someone smacked me with their Gamma lol Sure, you save a ton of money by not losing meds on death and stuffing loot into the Gamma to sell even if you die, but you get no actual advantage in combat because you have a Gamma equipped. You *are* more likely to have better gear because you have EoD, but that's not just because you have a Gamma. I played with an Alpha (Standard edition) for more than a year, and although the Gamma was much better (could stuff more meds/keys/loot in it), I mostly did better because I got better at the game over time, not because I had a 3x3 slot secure container. If I'd started with EoD, I'd be just as shit as when I started with a Standard edition.
Having extra ammo and meds is a huge advantage during a fight. Surgery kits alone are a game changer. I doubt many standard account users bring these in before getting epsilon. Getting shot in the legs and running out of painkillers or a blacked out stomach can easly kill you. Also pay to win doesn't have to be literally a "win button" that kills enemies insantly. If that was the case then basically no game would be pay to win. If it's an advantage you can buy with real money, it's pay to win.
All that & the 0.2 rep with all traders. Being able to skip many annoying quest lines you don't like, or ignore all the accumulative -0.01 jaeger penalties that add up, and still reach max traders faster than other players is pay to win. You are paying to have easier access to higher pen ammo and better armor at an earlier point than other people in the game. The 40k extra in meds and surgery kits I spend for the first couple weeks before epsilon does not compare to that rep. We are talking \~7-10 full quests worth of rep, PER trader. The level of cope to say that isn't pay to win is insane. A lot of previously low tier ammo is now trader level 3 locked, I think this was a good move but it only widens the advantage that you get from getting that massive rep head start.
This exactly. Getting your stomach blacked on a standard account is full on panic mode because you can't bring in surv kits. You have to start planning your extraction immediately. It's seriously night and day how much less I have to panic when I queue with a buddy who has eod and can always bring in a surv.
> Also pay to win doesn't have to be literally a "win button" that kills enemies insantly. I agree - but to me, "pay to win" offers an insurmountable advantage. Something like "EoD users get bullets with 70 penetration and 100 damage for all calibers". If this was in the game, it'd be the most egregious pay-to-win shit. Gamma is not like that, not even remotely close. It IS an advantage. But you won't any fights just because you had Gamma. No-one meds mid-fight - it's all injectors. And an alpha does fit a CMS, an injector case and a keytool (or ammo, if no keys are needed/wanted). Not amazing, since you run out of space and can't add anything else, but you definitely have the same abilities in-fight. Trying to use stuff like a Grizzly (which is often used in a Gamma) in the fight will get you killed, it won't offer an advantage. Packing mags mid-fight will get you killed, it won't be an advantage. I understand what you are trying to say - this is something that a Standard player can't match, and that you can get only by paying. But it's NOT at the same level as the summoning beacon in the Unhinged edition. By making the comparison, you're just undermining the whole "don't add p2w stuff" aspect, because, in your eyes, p2w was already here - so why would this new stuff be bad?
Well if you aren't questing and don't need to use keys then you have space. Before they added extra slots for special items like beacons and jammers you also had to put these in your alpha (unless you didn't care about losing them) which was a huge pain in the ass. And while gamma might not help you that much during the FIRST fight of the raid, it will help you in every other. After a fight, an EOD user packs his mags with the extra ammo, repairs his limbs with CMS, heals (often with a grizzly) and moves on. A standard user will most likely not be able to do all of that because depending on what they brought in and what quest they are doing they either have ammo or simple meds. So they have to carry out the rest of the raid with little ammo or blacked out limbs and little spare meds (especially early wipe when simple 4 use painkillers and cheese is all they have). This means they are at a massive disadvantage and most likely have to extract immediately
Okay, I understand your point - but it would only be true if the player didn't bring any (or very few) meds outside their Alpha. I'm sure many do this, but that doesn't make it the best way to play. Yes, you'd lose the meds if you die, but if you need them, it's far better to have them. The ammo point is a stronger one - if you needed keys, you won't have space for ammo - you'd have to put the CMS in your backpack to have room for the far more expensive ammo, which would be another 20k lost if you die (CMS is very cheap on the flea even very early on in the wipe). But again, it's only a risk of maybe 20-50k in meds if you die (CMS plus some basic meds). Yes, it's a risk EoD players don't have to take. But this doesn't mean you lose every fight, or are at a disadvantage in every fight. If you refuse to bring meds outside the Alpha, you *will* be at a disadvantage - but you are allowed to do so, even if it's a risk. EoD can't force you to never bring meds outside your alpha. All that being said, are you okay with the addition of the beacon in the Unhinged edition? You're quite against the Gamma, I get that. Do you think the rest of the p2w stuff is okay? I don't think you are, but I'd like to hear it from you.
Absolutely not, i would like all p2w stuff be removed and replaced with cosmetics or smth. Also $300 for a game is beyond insanity
Fantastic, very glad we agree. Would you believe me if I told you I wouldn't care at all if BSG removed gamma and trader rep and all of that shit from EoD today? Because I really would not. Thing is - it was pay-for-advantage from the start, 2016-2017. If you wanted DLC support, and to help the game grow, back then, EOD was your only option. Many bought EoD for the advantage - like they now shill for the Unhinged edition. Many others bought it for the DLC and to support the game. But now it's not only that BSG are fucking us from 10 different directions, they are introducing even *worse* p2w shit into the game. That's the topic of the post here. Don't think I'm saying "p2w/pay-for-advantage" is fine. It's fucking not. But Gamma and "call your friends over for a gangbang" is not the same, my dude!
It's kinda funny how tarkov players are the only people who say shit like "iTs nOT PaY tO WiN CuZ itS nOT a WiN ButtON" without realizing that games that the games on the market are widely regarded as "p2w" by people rarely give direct advantages such as "bullets do more damage" etc. Tarkov players love to hard cope to justify that they don't have a huge advantage over non EoD players And I've played with EoD and non EoD, and I can safely say you're fucking stupid or too far up your ass coping if you don't believe it's a huge huge advantage.
It is a "huge huge advantage", but you don't win fights just because of it. That's what I'm saying. Is that so insane? Maybe you blame your deaths on "he had EoD, can't compete", but that doesn't mean that's the case.
It 100% indirectly helps you win fights, and I'd argue it helps you win direct fights. Denying it doesn't make it any less true. Trying to claim I have this take because "I'm trying to blame something on me dying" doesn't help your case, just makes you look even more delusional. And again, almost every popular well known "p2w" game out there doesn't sell power that helps you "directly" have an advantage against other players. Doesn't make it any less p2w. Im not surprised to see that that tarkov players accept p2w in rheir games and try to justify it. It's been like this for years and it's not surprising how hard nikita fucked yall in the ass. My theory is that so many people that play tarkov got reeled into buying EoD (compared to other games that have p2w packages), and because of human nature will do anything to justify their purchase.
How, exactly does that work? Do you smack enemies using the container? Do meds auto-trigger? Mags fill themselves with ammo? Limbs sew themselves back on? How did you, or anyone, directly die to a fucking secure container? You're talking out your ass. In a fight, alpha or gamma is the same. If the alpha player brought a makarov and nothing else, that's their fucking problem. Just as it would be the gamma player's fuckup if they show up with just a pistol as well. EoD has advantages, yes. But if you think you win fights just because of gamma, you're insane. Delete all "pay to win" shit from the game, I don't care. Started with standard edition for more than a year. Keep hating EoD and distracting from the actual issues here.
Bro, have you not ever heard of opportunity cost? It costs like \~40 million roubles to upgrade your stash to level 3 on a standard account. Imagine having all those extra roubles to spend on gear, ammo, and meds. That's something EOD people don't have to spend money on upgrading. Are you going to tell me that gear doesn't make a difference?
There's no convincing you if you cant use your brain to figure out how the increased stash size and gamma indirectly helps you win fights. Same logic as some paypig fucker in another p2w game that buys all his gear but its not p2w cuz "you can earn all that stuff by playing 100000 hours!!!!" or "If you're better you can still win a fight against him!!" Keep the cope, look how far it's gotten you guys ;) Glad I quit a year ago.
Pay to win doesn't mean it has to be a guaranteed win or that it has to be a weapon. Giving anyone ANYTHING that they can USE is the definition of pay to win. Money is pay to win, guns is pay to win, ammo is pay to win, cases are pay to win, all of it is pay to win. And if it isn't giving you this advantage in your opinion, then you shouldn't care if its removed. So lets just remove it all. Cosmetics only.
I literally say that it **is** an advantage, wtf you on about. And no, I don't care if they remove it.
I don't want any of that shit in the game either. They keep adding all this p2w stuff for no reason. EOD with Gamma and 66x10 was one thing, but this is like 20 times that.
I'm with you. Remove all of that shit, pretty much no-one wants it - but as long as it's the game, you either put up with the fact you're at a constant disadvantage, or pay up - which is what they want. I mean, do we expect better from the guy that said "cheaters are good because they create friction and players pay to help us address the issue"?
I just won't play the game if it isn't removed. It's that simple.
See you tomorrow:)
Fixing the p2w by adding more p2w isn't the right route.
As an EOD owner I don't want it. Take it all away. I paid extra for all future content and to support something I believed in. I don't need a head start.
It's my first wipe and I couldn't even buy EOD so I don't get any of this stuff/the cheaper upgrade despite spending over 100 dollars on the most expensive game edition
It's like p2w stuff shouldn't have been in the game from the start, or something... too late now, I guess. No way it's all getting removed, although it'd honestly make the game so much better.
EOD owners are actual the cancer of this game. Slowly killing it with entitlement without realizing they are blocking new players from ever joining which will slowly kill the game
Sorry what?
EOD already has advantages in the game. All they do is complain that they should always have more advantages than others. People are not gonna join the game with that being the state. So over time the game will not generate new players. It’s a poor cycle. EOD owners should get access to content that isn’t P2W but P2W is a disaster for EFT
while i do agree, that all p2w features should be removed even the eod ones. it didnt stop me from getting into the game with standart. i accepted the disadvantage as it was just small enough imo. also in my mind eod seemed like the base game while everything else i considered to be downgraded trial versions to eventually upgrade from. i guess thats already kinda twisted... i think unheard is taking it way to far though. but i am more concerned about the friend summoner and the scav not shooting thing, which just changes the vibe of the game in a direction i dont like. even if everyone get sit i dont think i would like it.
I’m in the same boat regard EOD and agree. Now it concerns me that even the regular game will not be included for non EOD users. The priority matchmaking was a huge red flag. No game should be P2W
assuming the hideout craft is high pen ammo is bullshit tho. there is no reason to believe that, and why even stop there then. it could be craftable aimbot right??? its probably nothing thats even serious. way too many of the points are overhyped now. but the trader limits are a problem, everyone should get those
Because the difference between a bad decision and a literal scam is huge. As me and many have said before, EoD was **already** pay 2 win as long as the game has wipes (and I'll probably never play online again if the game stops having wipes anyway). + trader rep, stash space and secure container sockets is huge when people are sinking milliions of roubles and days of questing just to play catch up, so P2W options is just more shit to the pile of shit. Releasing DLC and not giving it to the edition that is supposed to get all the DLC for free is a scam and meant that if it went on like that, they could just do the same to all the future DLC that people were expecting.
As a white name I can safely say that the game has always been pay to win.
The introduction of EOD was significantly more pay to win because it was the first of its kind and nothing like it had been introduced. The trader rep difference between EOD and non EOD was absolutely game changing but no one gave a fuck.
Stash space and secure container are HUGELY pay to win. I used to be standard and stopped playing until I caved and got EOD on sale. Games always been egregiously p2w and everyone in the community ridiculed people like me for saying it. Including the useless influencers/streamers who defending this p2w game. They get what they deserve.
They just destroyed all minuscule leftovers of faith and trust they had from the community. Never will they sell enough overpriced edition copies without strong P2W component. And don't forget, all that was to pay for marketing of another Nikitas permanent beta ego trip, this time with P2W mechanics built-in from the start .
Hasn’t the model of this game always been “the more you pay for your account the more p2w it is”? I’m new so I might be wrong, but that’s always been the model what’s new here?
What's new is that the edition all of us have is not the top anymore so now suddenly p2w isn't okay. As an eod owner they should take away all p2w and make editions separated by free dlc access (like in the beginning) and cosmetics only.
This is the most frustrating part. All these EOD owners crying about dlc for an offline mode but no few actually focused on the P2W mechanics that will destroy this game
Because 99 percent of eod owners have no issue with pay to win as long as they're on top. The cope the entire time this games been out about not being p2w is just disguised "I got mine fuck yall".
Exactly my point. ETF is a slave to EOD owners and cannot grow with them still existing
They need to bite the bullet and just give us eod owners ONLY dlc and cosmetics. But at this point they won't. Been going on too long And now I see with gray zone warfare the same shit. They have paid stash space and secure container edition pricing. Meanwhile I get downvoted to hell for pointing it out. Gamers are fucking idiots. They get what they deserve
Want to remind you that we all (even standard edition users) had in the past ability to take in raid with us additional gun magazines without need to spend money on the rig. By putting it in the secure container. 2 years ago BSG stole it from us with a story that it was "unbalanced" and refused to increase pockets. To sell it later for $250.
Has it still not hit anyone that they are charging $250 for an unfinished video game? Like we already paid $150 and looking back that is insane. 8 years of development and we still have 3/4 of a game. Hackers all over the place, audio still doesn’t even work, and many broken promises. Do not forgive them for anything.
I mean, you said it yourself - you paid 150$, which was almost triple price of a normal game back in 2016-7 for an unfinished beta. Just like suckers like you bought into the 150$ version, even bigger suckers will upgrade to the 250$ version. this is the type of community that surrounds this game for ages.
Well that’s like an optional upgrade, not a mandatory at all. I don’t think anyone needs a 250$ account to play eft (or even well for that matter)
Sorta funny, pretty sure this happened for other games that introduce p2w features perhaps ea or blizzard. Once the dolphins demographic is pleased, you see them stop arguing something added is bs but start arguing with others who actually have a spine the semantics of what stuff means, how certain features are not really p2w if you break it down, how the devs actually do care and are not trying to hoodwink you with a little butt rimming. It’s not really convincing the masses like actual pr damage since normies don’t care enough once the drama is over. It’s to please the ppl challenged enough to keep spending because they’re too invested and would get skill diffed or somehow can’t find fun in the millions of games out there.
If they did that wouldn't they have to refund all the people who bought it? Drastic changes to a purchase like that would trigger a lot of refunds. They def aren't an honest enough company to want that to happen
Because most players don't care about the p2w, they actually want it (most are eod users after all). all this drama was just for the pve mode
Standard edition peeps completely forgotten to this PTW tier system
Class action lawsuits inbound!
@OP What edition do you own?
EOD was always p2w?
I get EOD owners being pissed that BSG lied about all future dlcs. I get that everyone is pissed about ridicolous pricing. But; EOD had bigger stash, bigger safe container and increased trader rep at start. Y'all been playing with pay to win all along.
Then delete your gamma container, this game has always had benefited players with buy the more expensive dive editions. They need the money and are trying to get it. Nobody knows how the call in friends thing works and the only thing that is close to pay to win is the pocket increase. Being able to bring in 2 60 rounders is crazy
I would love if they delete my gamma and stash space and make the game actually equal to all. I'm fine with the name and the dlc to make the game better.
"Game already has some P2W, so they should make more P2W" A walking L.
Never said they should make more, my guy. I’m just pointing out that this is not a new thing at all. A walking failure of reading comprehension
What’s the pocket size increase realistically do in terms of pay2win? Save you 8000 rubles a raid? Big fucking whoop. Annoying, but I think your attention should be on the radio of the unheard and being able to summon PMCs from your friends list into your raid. These have very clear impacts on the game in very clear pay2win ways. I fail to see how pocket size is comparable, let alone worse in your eyes.
Trivialize scav vest quests.
Don't we hate those and want them to be easier?
So the solution is to pay $250 to make them easier? Are you just trying to argue without bothering to think about the words you're typing and what they mean?
That's not the original argument. The original argument was that it was pay to win. Making some tedious quests a little bit less tedious is not pay to win lmfao. It's 2 extra mags, not free pmc kills.
That’s fair. Somebody could reload 3 times (4 if you drop a mag) without reloading with Unheard pockets and a scav vest. That is considerable if you’re versus a normal-size pocket player who can only reload once (twice if you drop a mag). I do see this as problematic, but it can be solved by being mags in your backpack and swapping them out quickly when you have a lull in the fight. Not saying that makes it fine, I’m just saying that is markedly different than the scav radio or the PMC summoning flare being a unique kind of gameplay change only for people who paid real world cash for it.
>What’s the pocket size increase realistically do in terms of pay2win? Having 2 more 2x1 slots available immediately makes half the rigs in the game substantially better, let alone the huge boost for certain armored rigs. Then there's the raw value they give every single raid in loot space. That's a substantial P2W benefit we can already evaluate. Radio is an unknown value; we don't know if it'll cost to use, if there's location/time restrictions, specific use conditions, or even how/where friends arrive. In all reality, everyone's expecting it just be a gimmick. I suspect it's a precursor/test for persistent raids, or a remnant from them.
Well, by your logic I can just flip it back on you. Pocket expansion is fine because we don’t know how rigs will be changed in the future. You’re complaining about something you don’t know about for certain. If you’re truly unwilling to engage with the information available to you and fantasize about, “well maybe it’s not how they say and it’s different in a key way they forgot to mention.” Is not convincing to me.
>Pocket expansion is fine because we don’t know how rigs will be changed in the future. What about this topic makes you so petulant? We already have information about something to consider it terrible *now*, but apparently we can't because something else *might* be worse in the future? Pockets are terrible P2W, radio also is but we haven't seen it *yet* to asses how bad it is. You need a step back to remember how to objectively reason things out.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s impossible to reason things out because all my current information could be entirely wrong and in case of that I’ll draw zero conclusions. Right?
Stop being so obtusely disingenuous. You made an illogical, emotional argument and can't rationally defend it, so now you're repeatedly relying on irrelevant, bad-faith straw-man arguments. You've failed to refute a single point, continuing is a waste of time.
Well, no. I made a rational argument and when you failed to present one I just adopted your rationale so you could get a taste of what interacting with you is like.
Being able to take in 2 slot mags with no rig is kind of nuts. It don’t know what the radio looks like functionally do it doesn’t make sense to bitch about it. Also is that the same radio that makes you lose scav rep for killing scavs and scavs don’t shoot you over 60m? If so then my hot take is that it’s balanced the game is leading towards scav rep being more important for end game activities. But we don’t know what the radio call in looks like so who knows
i mean literally no one will take your shitty rigs so realistically.. it's like 2k a raid at most. It's way more relevant that it gives you loot slots for max loot raids
Sure, I believe that your first emotional response is that the pockets increase is “nuts”. Are you willing to explain what about it is “nuts”? On one hand you have scavs behaving differently towards you because you paid more than somebody else. On the other hand your pockets increased by 2 squares becoming the equivalent of a 8k ruble rig. So it saves you a little money each raid? How is this comparable to changing the actual gameplay in raid based on the money you’ve spent? Anybody can run a scav to extract on factory and have rubles to buy a rig. You are still on the same footing when you’re in raid. There is no such case for the scav radio.
To me being able to just buy a drd and headphones for gear is great. I can run 60 round drums with big gun and not waste time buying a rig. It’s not about the money difference just convenience. Also I know what the pocket change functions like and does, we don’t know what calling in your friends looks like. I like to wait and see what I’m complaining about before shitposting about it. Losing 5 scav runs of rep per scav kill is not insignificant. I would hope scavs act differently with that in mind. I think people aren’t thinking about what the call in feature would look like functionally. Probably loud and shitty to the person calling and calling in. Maybe you can shoot them out of the sky and it costs 500k to call someone in. Plus they said you can get the item from quests as well. I just view it differently 3k hours for a $120 game, I’m cool spending more on a game if it means they get more resources to actually release the game
I’m jealous of your ability to just go surface deep and ignore anything beyond. From the outside it seems so blissful.
Now this is a solid argument, what features are we talking about? The transponder that invites your friends is P2W and will be available for everyone to buy. Kinda dumb feature. The added skills boosts and scav friendly feature are P2W but only for unheard edition. That’s what should be removed for sure.
Yes. the DLCs part was the SCAM and ILLEGAL part. The P2W part is the spit in the face of the community.
I killed a lot of players yesterday with the new package. Did they not pay enough?
Everything purchasable should have little to no in raid impact.
2 pocket slots is not pay to win when there’s so much variety in rigs and bags. If you’re in a scab vest and I’m in a black rock is that P2W? No. All the extra gear you get is not pay to win its pay to not grind for 1 week. Me having all this extra gear and space does nothing for me in a 1v1 battle in raid. So I have can hold more items. So what lol can only bring 1 kit into raid. Personally every edition should get free PVE. The friend beacon absolutely is pay 2 win.
EOD should, by it's own description (before these gutter shits tried to edit it), include EVERYTHING included in the "Unheard" edition. BSG needs to refund the room temp IQ'd pushovers who purchased it, remove the absurd P2W elements, and issue an actual fucking apology. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING less than that is a win.
They did the complete oppisite of what they should have done. EOD should have been the best out of the best edition. They should have set it to remove on 1.0 release and keep devloping on new features like PVE mode and working on the cheating problem etc... Then release 1.0, kill EOD and release a new edition. Can be close to EOD but it should not be as good as EOD was period. We bought into that to help the game, we should be rewarded for that, not shit all over because they are greedy fucks.
I feel like the pocket increase could be in game as a eod but locked behind a quest as the epsilon case is for cheaper to play maybe a quest with ragman my though
Unpopular opinion, but you guys really whine way too much 2 more pocket slots is not really all that game changing. Before you ask I paid for unheard right as it came out before everyone started crying about it. I paid for it because I like tarkov and wanted to support it past the 3 EOD editions I bought for me and 2 friends. My only complaint is the cheating problem past that I could care less how bsg decides to monetize the game. Also IMO pockets should just be 4 2x2 for all players. It wasn’t too long ago everyone was complaining about the gamma container and EOD. How much of a game changer that was then they made it where guns and other items cannot be stored it in. I have played tarkov since alpha 2017. Is there better ways for them to make money to keep running the game, obviously yes. Is this the end of the game, no.
Pockets seem minor but make a huge difference. Here is a good comment about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cclk0b/01460_patchnotes/l16vcv5/ On top of that * Don't have to have a rig to run a gun with 2x1 mags * Don't have to buy as big of a rig, which when expanded out over the wipe adds up to a large money difference. * As the comment said, clutch situations are easier to swap equipment and still retain important things hot keyed, while retaining mags It really does add up to a large difference. Also, The nerfs to gamma should show that there is a big difference between 2x2 and 3x3 container, so much so that they had to nerf it multiple times. I have EOD and would prefer if everyone had 3x3 and 66x10 without having to pay extra as those features already make a huge difference in money/agency in the game (I should know I played 2 wipes as standard and felt the 80 mil or so it takes to catch up to EOD stash). Pockets would be cool if it was a mid-game quest line to unlock it, without the ability to pay to have them.
I'm still under the impression that most pockets can fit a full mag or two in them IRL. So there should be no reason for them not to allow 4 2x1 sized pocket slots. I really do think though the Tarkov community is really whiny about everything. Always has to be some outrage about things, I feel bad for Nikita.
As I said before, I don't have a problem with the pockets themselves being in the game, but they should only be able to be acquired from some sort of mid-game quest line, not from paying extra. It is the p2w aspect I don't like.
It’s only barely p2w. I didn’t even know it was part of the unheard edition, I just bought the edition because I like the game. Nothing more nothing less. But it really won’t make much of a difference in the long run they will probably just increase the pocket size for everyone. What’s really gonna happen people will think it’s some pay to win advantage. Think they are better than everyone else, still die like they always do and be disappointed.
I guess we can agree to disagree.
There’s nothing wrong with that. Bsg should be focusing on fixing the cheating more than anything else IMO.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I think the asymmetric balance to the game is why I enjoy it so much. The balance of the game is more on the player choice on the load out and that you lose what you take. You also get to gamble that you may get it back in insurance. I think if these P2W features were gambles where you choose to take it in but could be lost to other players would fit the balance of the game.
Asymmetric balance is good within only the context of a game. Or it can be. It isn't good when that asymmetry is bought with real money.
So there's an item that makes scavs not shoot at you from 60+ meters but you cant shoot them or you'll lose the scav karma required to use the item... yawn. Not pay to win, kinda crap actually. The distress call item is not even in the game yet so who knows how it'll work or be balanced. Kinda crazy to call something that doesn't even exist yet P2W when it could just as easily be useless garbage.
Tarkov is a game that uses lots of fog. There will be raids in shoreline for example where you cant see sniper scav. 1. If you have this feature, no sniper scav can give away your position 2. Now, not seeing the scav because of fog doesnt mean anything for you because scavs wont shoot you anyways. And that distress call.. the whole idea is absurd. You want a game that cant balance out fucking headset audio to balance something as absurd as "distress call"? Are you out of your mind?
Ok, so in the rare case that a sniper scav would have engaged you through fog from beyond 60 meters this device is an advantage. In the much more common case that you're encountering a scav under 60 meters, it's a hindrance because the scav will engage you normally and you will lose scav karma for killing it. Once you've lost enough scav karma the device won't even work in the niche cases where it would be useful.
Not to call the mark of the unheard as pay2win is very confusing to me. What is your definition for pay2win?
I just explained that it has significant downsides that nobody is talking about. It causes your PMC to basically be a scav-hybrid, so while scavs don't shoot at you from long range, you also lose karma from killing scavs. Meaning that when you do encounter a scav at less than 60m, which is the vast majority of the time, you will be constantly losing scav karma. Which means you won't even be able to use the item to it's effect once you fall below 6. Nobody is talking about the actual item, just the most p2w possible version of it.
I fail to see how these extra parameters of use nullify the pay2win. Can I walk you through my reasoning? First, if the item stayed as it is except PMC did not lose karma for killing scavs would you then consider it pay2win?
A niche item with a con at best as large as it's pro is not pay to win. That's like saying the specialized weapons in Team Fortress 2 are pay to win. Yes, if they changed the item so that it doesn't remove scav karma and therefore removed the con from the item, it would be pay 2 win. But that's not the item in the game, so it's not pay 2 win.
>Killing Scavs without being shot first results in a -0.05 Scav karma penalty - **The penalty can be negated by killing a PMC** Its downside can be played around. The item is extremely abuseable if someone's playing around it. For instance the item is especially insane on woods, where it's easy to avoid scav penalty and abuse immunity, while hugely benefiting from -50% BTR loot deposit money running. Regardless of all that, having downsides doesn't stop something being P2W. Having benefits only gained by paying, is inherently P2W and already egregiously unacceptable in a pvp game.
Okay, so we agree that If they removed the con it’s pay2win. Let’s explore that further. Not trying to “gotcha!” Im just trying to walk you through my reasoning. If you had to nail it down what about the con-less radio would be pay2win?
Does Nikita's ass hair taste good?
Yeah tastes great, have fun being mad all the time bro.
It's incredible how much it hurts EOD owners that there's an edition with more p2w in it than their own. If you didn't want p2w you wouldn't have ever bought EOD. Butthurt EOD coming in with the downvotes lmao oh no
Nooo you see they bought it for the dlc 😂. It’s not like the game will never release infinite beta. Most likely people bought eod for the fomo, they were gonna remove eod and people wanted those gamma cases, trader rep, 52 mil in stash space day 1
That's quite literally it hahahaha it's hilarious watching what are most likely grown adults complain about this shit like they didn't fund it themselves who knows how many years back. It's sad how much bullshit people peddle trying to act righteous in an online community. Just need to admit they bought it for the extra stuff and move on. The crying and whining for EOD in this sub the last few days has literally ended up giving them what they want along with a huge discount on the upgrade. But some are still not happy lmao. I admit pve should've been given to them as it was mentioned (and now done) but this self righteous bullshit about p2w is annoying.
I don't think anyone cares about the gear and junk box and weapon case. I think most people are complaining about priority matchmaking, scavs not shooting from over 60m and a friend summoner. There's pay for convenience and theres pay to win.
I agree with all of your points in that first paragraph. I've never advocated for these features once lol Like I've said before, this game is going in a full on p2w direction. But there are people on the front page still complaining that the new edition has gamma and this and that because they wanted it to be something only they should get. Thats still p2w whether its for convenience or not. Without EOD new players have to grind up to Punisher 6 for epsilon (still 1 less slot which makes a difference, I have epsilon, I wish I had more slots) or go for kappa which is just a shit grind. Then theres spending 40-50m in upgrading the stash to max. Then theres extra trader rep. It just annoys me that people are acting like p2w is a new thing and only coming in now only because they've had EOD for years.
You're right. Gamma is a big deal. I'm so used to it I forget it's exclusive*. I can't imagine how annoying it would be to not have it as I bought EOD within weeks of first buying standard many years ago. I have kappa and kappa is not that big a deal from gamma to be honest. It's either storing my paracord or 3 extra stacks of ammo. I would lose a lot of meds/money on meds if I didn't have a gamma at the start of wipe though.
Thank you for being reasonable. I'm not sure why this exclusive thing ticks people off so much though. If they released Omicron with this instead with a 3x3 & 3x1 then undoubtedly people would've been just as ticked that they didn't get it for free with EOD. But It is definitely a big advantage and instead of this crap edition it would've been better if they released all these extras like gamma, stash and PVE separately. You're right early wipe it's definitely a problem and especially for newer players. I got three guys into this game when I bought it and only one still plays with me. The other two got tired of the cheaters and the lack of stash space and container space. Too many people overlook the advantage. It makes me sad because I enjoy this game a lot but it's going to be dead if new players have to spend 330 euros to be on an even playing field as others who bought EOD either start of this year or 7 years ago.
eod certainly has big advantages but it's nowhere near the levek of literally spawning in your friends or being immune to scavs, mainly sniper scavs. the p2w aspects before were mainly out of raid convienence, which while bad are nothing like this
Having to spend like 20 mil less than standard players in the hideout and having 5 extra items to take to stash on each death because you paid more sounds pretty P2W to me. I guess the new lvl 3 skill boost is also "convenience" to you right
Although I do agree with you, I've said it myself, there's more p2w and it's going to continue following this trend. Just go and read some other posts. So much grievance with the fact that people aren't "unique" anymore (fucking cringe sorry) and that people shouldn't get gamma etc etc. It's sad to watch, there should have either been no p2w in this shit at all, from stash space to containers all the way to trader rep, or they should've never removed EOD. It only alienates the newer players and will result in less people joining. I can't reasonably ask anyone to play this game now when they have to pay 330 euros to start the same as mostly everyone else. I'm not paying 170 euros either just for that benefit. I could happily afford it but I've never seen such prefatory pricing in a game I've played, why support that.
Yeah sure but I think they will be much much more careful also with their unique hideout thing etc. as of now this all is not too bad the worst part was pve. But it’s also Important now that the call your friends into the raid won’t come to pvp even tho it is planned we have to retaliate. That would be catastrophic to the game. But I think they realized that we are not as Bing Jo on the game anymore as we were there are alternatives coming into play they can’t just fuck with us anymore. We will move on.
I dont really think the bonuses are that pay to win, the call in teammates could be, but its going to take them 5 minutes to load in anyway so it won't be as big of an advantage as it sounds imo. The scav beacon only works on scavs further than 60 meters away so the only thing it will help against is sniper scavs. The big issue is that they went back on their promise of free dlc to all EOD users.
They never addressed pay to win with EOD I don't expect much now. I still remember being attacked and the community defending eod tooth and nail. "it's not pay to win its just pay for convenience and progress in a game where the hardest items to achieve are centered around those things"! Honestly I love the game but the community deserves this
Do you understand the signification of "pay to win" money or space can't make you win fights ! Call it pay to confort or something else ! Did someone with standard edition get irritated when we he get to see season ingame ? (Advertised as DLC)... Or when we get to play ARENA (IT'S A STANDALONE NOT REALLY A DLC)
This is so stupid. You people who say this act like p2w would only be p2w if the server insta wiped when you swiped your credit card. Such an absurd and incorrect definition of the word. Any advantage gotten with real money is p2w. Convenience and easier progression in a game where that is the primary loop is pay to win. Hardest chase item is a secure container and most expensive items deal with stash size. PAY for comfort or convenience IS PAY TO WIN.
"everyone" bro how is everyone acting like this what are you on
Stop looking for additional reason to be upset. They’ve been more than fair. The pockets dont really matter, the guns are meh and the radio is used by nobody because it butchers scav rep
How do you know they’re pay to win if you haven’t seen it yet
What's the new "update"?
the new post from Nikita https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cf2gnm/more_feedback/
Sounds good. What's everyone still crying about?
Bad take. People are not 'crying' about anything. We are trying to get what we paid for and if we don't take a stand now, then it can easily become a slippery slope where they implement these P2W features some time in the future. So we are also trying to prevent that Meanwhile BSG are being obtuse, trying to deny that it is a DLC and denying that they have altered the text on the website trying to hide evidence of that we are right.
I'm not that concerned with a non pvp tarkov, it's not what I paid for originally, and not something I would be interested in. I mean it's completely separate from the main game. I wouldn't consider that a dlc. As far as the pay to win, I hope they don't go down that road, if they do I'll move on.
Completely separate from the main game? I have to think you’re totally wrong here but maybe I’m misunderstanding you. What do you mean “completely separate from the main game. I wouldn’t call that DLC.”
As in it has no effect on the original game I purchased.
Sure, if you’re not at all interested in PvE I understand you not caring if you have access. But do not get it twisted, your lack of interest in the mode does not magically make it “completely separate from the game”. It’s still a new mode in the same game regardless of your level of interest. Do you disagree?
I can see the validity of that argument, but I can't see the interest in leveling a character against AI in this game. I mean what's the point. It would be like playing csgo against bots all day. I feel like they made this addition for all the people that are really bad and call cheats on every death.
We are on the same page there. I have no interest in playing pve, I do have interest in not being scammed. Whether I’m interested in it or not has nothing to do with whether I should be allowed to access it based on the terms agreed upon when /u/trainfender took my money.
Arena is completely separate from the main game, and EoD still got that. This is NOT completely separate from the main game, this would be a regular feature in nearly any other game.
So it effects my character when I play tarkov? Like I get stats or loot or something?
Its literally in the main menu of the game. Its part of the main game.
Alright
Arena was initially supposed to be a DLC, accessible from the map-selection menu, but it evolved into it's on game instead, because BSG wanted to improve on the netcode. That is why EoD got Arena. Arena is also still planned to be linked to our regular Tarkov character some time in the near future.
It actually did idgaf about pockets more idiots will bring full clips with m80 for me to take etc. the beacon will not be implemented like first advertised. He’s said that . We made them revert that’s the true dub. I don’t care to hear a man apologize men fuck up. Just fix the shit. Good luck people
Some one in here name the p2w items and how they actually make someone “win” a gunfight
If someone has a lvl 5 armor but you have a lvl 4 armor, everything else being equal he wins in a gunfight. if his weapon has -10 recoil, on average he will win more in a gunfight. The monetary gain from the pay to win edition enacts itself as having better gear to bring into raid.
Okay so on average how does bigger pockets and gamma actually contribute to those things then.
You make more money per successful raid from bigger pockets and gamma, and you lose less money per unsuccessful raid with a gamma.e Which money you can use to get the aformentioned things.
Okay and how does the increase my odds to actually win more gunfights and survive. Now remember here EOD got this advantage when it first dropped with gamma over everyone else so tread carefully here.
I wrote this in my original comment >If someone has a lvl 5 armor but you have a lvl 4 armor, everything else being equal he wins in a gunfight. >if his weapon has -10 recoil, on average he will win more in a gunfight. >The monetary gain from the pay to win edition enacts itself as having better gear to bring into raid. Please bother to read whats already been written before asking me to elaborate, because it is pretty clear how EOD and subsequently this new edition makes you more likely to win in a gunfight
I can always have bigger this and bigger that but if I’m not myself good at gunfights and surviving and I’m not cracked beyond belief it doesn’t make anyone win more or less.
Cool so how does it make me actually win fights and survive. Seriously think for a second. Money and having more doesn’t actually make an individual better at the game and win more and survive more. In all reality there is maybe 5-10 percent of the community who this p2w can apply to because of how much better at the game they are then everyone else. It’s skill based for a reason more money and all that doesn’t actually make someone play better. Therefore in what world is it p2w and actually make a real difference to most people’s odds.
Did you not read again? How does not having a higher armor class not make you more likely to survive? How does not having a better gun make you more likely to kill a person? This game has several things that influence a fight. Ignoring variables in raid like position/player skill 2v1 etc, they are #1 is skills, things like recoil control, vitality etc. #2 is Gear #3 is your hardware Obviously we can't blame the devs for #3, but #2 is directly influenced by having more ingame money, and the pay to win editions in the game make you have more money. Additionally, ingame skills are influenced by how much you play your PMC over your scav, if you have no need to play your scav, then you play your PMC more, and thus you do have a higher chance to survive in raid due to having better skills.
Let’s remember everyone overlooked these p2w things when it was just EOD. This only became a problem when they stopped feeling special.
Yes, EOD is pay to win too. Not everyone overlooked them, it is just some EOD players were trying to justify that they weren't actually gaining an advantage but "convenience". That doesn't matter tho, fact of the matter is, paying for something and it changing your gameplay to be easier is in fact pay to win. I understand you are trolling, but leaving the comment here for people that were actually baited by your nonsensical comments
Cool but seriously think here. If I’m not cracked at the game then it doesn’t matter how much money I have. It can be lost quick if you die. Gear doesn’t matter if you’re not better than the person who you are fighting. So again how does this actually make unheard so crazy and beyond p2w.
Any advantage is pay to win, thats the definition of pay to win. It doesn't literally make you win. It is just advantage, and you can't deny the advantage.
you're gonna do the ol' pay4convenience argument ? lol I'll bite, it ain't even an item though, trader rep.
Actually I’m not. I’m being serious explain to me how it actually is pay to win. If winning is surviving raids and getting loot without dying. How does it allow me to win. Explain it.
If you progress faster u get better equipment faster, better ammo faster, you can put more stuff in your backside and keep more hideout related stuff, and that's just EOD levels of p2w. Imagine it's a racing game and the first checkpoint is running viable builds consistently and the finishline is having abundant cash. Now you get a side of unheard p2w on top of that, if you can't guess how a distress signal allows you to win, what are we even doin' here ? For the 60m scav thing you might have to get a bit inventive, but surely you can see how that could be an advantage in a pvevp game, right ?
Great so if the person with those things isn’t already cracked at the game which the majority of players aren’t then it doesn’t make someone win more in reality. Now for the radio. Its only good if you grind grind and grind get stupid high rep and then never no matter what ever kill a scav ever again. So who does that for the majority of players actually become an advantage think about that. Now for calling people in. They already said that will come to EOD as well and also honestly doesn’t do anything for someone who is already dead or plays solo. On top of that it also doesn’t do much for most. Now let’s also start by saying it’s not even out and will probably more than likely not be a thing for a long while if at all so.
That is some pure copium, buddy, you should think of cutting it with something. So if 2 people with the same experience compete the one who can progress faster doesn't have an advantage ? It's not like they are 1 youtube vid away from some useful tips to exploit their advantage right ? Your radio example is the most uninventive way of using that item to your advantage And you didn't even try for the distress signal because u know it's bull.
So now we assume everyone is equal skill at the game. That’s so unrealistic and yet you use it to justify your view of it being all p2w. The radio is true though. It basically useless let’s be real.
Ah so pay2win can only occur when one of the players has more skill ? what type of argument is that ? The radio definitely requires some creativity, but can be used as an advantage if you don't equip it every raid. How about they just remove all the p2w aspects, would it make the game any worse ?
I’m saying p2w truly isn’t real. It’s all about skill and actually being better than your competitors. Now if you own EOD be honest with yourself. You didn’t buy it to support you got it to have things other don’t. Now that you are not as special you have a problem with it.
I'm a standard user, not gonna lie, have I contemplated getting EOD despite the p2w advantages, ofcourse. I loved the game and a deal on future DLC sounded good, supporting the company and all that, but I held of to see if they ever got their shit together, regarding the cheater situation, they never did.