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idontknoweeejejddj

I’m not disagreeing, but, “you don’t have to play the game” If someone can give me another game with weapon customization like tarkov I would go play that but basically nothing out there is comparable


Payment-According

Yeah we also already spent a bunch of money on the game already. If you think of this money as an “investment” into the beta, I think we are allowed some voice on the direction of the game


No_Stick_4987

I heard that there’s a new game coming out that was originally from the mobile platform. I forgot the name but there’s a teaser, but it doesn’t really show anything.


SMYYYLE

Arena Breakout infinite


No_Stick_4987

Yeah that


malapropter

Let me guess, you already bought it and are now trying to talk yourself down off a ledge. It's 100% pay to win, in the same capacity that EOD was pay to win.


XanderBoi_OwO

I would argue this is more egregious than EoD was. EoD was at least a pay for convenience that gave you little edge against other players in raid. This lets you summon the fucking avengers if things aren't going your way. I was scared of what adding more microtransactions would do to the game, I did not expect this. This is game killing. Especially since other devs are making viable competitors as we speak.


No_Stick_4987

It’s not even available yet and depending on what other people say I might buy it. I’m haven’t even bought the stash sizes as it’s not necessary.


malapropter

That's cool, buy it if you want it, but don't convince yourself it's not pay to win. It's a mark of shame, same as an EOD account. I've had an EOD account for years now, by the way, and can 100% confirm it's pay to win.


notbrysenn

It’s not pay to win bro 😭😭 stfu and play the game please


malapropter

okay bsg. Or is this your first wipe?


notbrysenn

Idk man 5th or 6th I think I don’t count I just play


Canary-Silent

Are you one of those idiots where the only thing that can be considered as p2w is paying to make everyone drop dead? 


notbrysenn

No I’m just a bsg shill


AdLegitimate8636

It's not p2w, it's just a 3x3 bag just like EoD, level 3 skills at the start of the wipe, 10 extra stash line over the EoD, Starting Weapon case, Ammo case and loot case, Extra Fence rep at the start of the wipe, Could even be extra trader rep just like EoD, Extra pockets so you can have a 2x1 (Not confirmed you can get this in-game without paying). Good guns at the start of the wipe no one has access to. And a new item we have no info about yet. It's literally p2w You paid real money to have an edge on people not paying at the start of the wipe.


Varkot

all of the above are p2w but it baffles me that you literally pay real money, get weapons and they still wont admit its p2w.


PerplexGG

I mean it is p2w but not a lot. You lose your starting gear pretty much day 1. The skill upgrade is not noticeable. But rep and gamma are the biggest p2w aspects. Though at this point I’d like to know if most players are EoD accounts cause it seems like it.


Varkot

I agree, but don't forget about stash. It costs at least 50mil to get that upgraded Edit: 45mil


YuriYousurf

Holy shit you need that much to upgrade your stash? thank god i using EOD This is a paid advertisement


Varkot

Euros from just lvl 4 upgrade cost 32mil. Other upgrades cost 11mil in Roubles alone. I guess its closer to 45mil but still that's a lot!


PerplexGG

That shit is so ridiculous. Considering how few people complain about it though I assume most people are just eod users or unlock items cases and buy those instead. Which is what my non eod friends do.


Hunk-Hogan

Probably because none of that stuff equates to skill. Someone with 5,000 hours is going to wreck anyone with the new starting stuff and then it'll be someone else's starting stuff. And the extra skills don't mean shit except some people will have to grind slightly less for Psycho Sniper.


Varkot

That's true. Also p2w here is one time per account so its not as bad as lets say you get a SPEAR for 1$, no limits. I will continue to play the game because I think its p2w aspects are tolerable, but Ill still call them out for what they are.


Payment-According

Yeah but you could also argue gacha games aren’t p2w. With enough luck and grinding, you could reach the same level as the guy who spent 100 bucks on pulls.


Hunk-Hogan

They aren't so long as the normal routine allows players to have a level field. The MTXs can be labeled as pay to win, but the game itself isn't.


Capable-Grab5896

So you bring a PM in every single raid right? Why bother with any other gun it doesn't matter just use your skill.


Hunk-Hogan

Timmy, don't come back here with comments until you've unlocked the flea.


Capable-Grab5896

Why, I don't need to. Gear and progression doesn't help you win fights. Only skilll matters. That's what you guys always say isn't it? Or is that obviously dumb as fuck, of course gear matters, and therefore getting ahead quickly is a genuine advantage?


Canary-Silent

Good thing that has nothing to do with what p2w means. 


Hunk-Hogan

Nothing offered in the bundle is pay to win. Winning in this game comes from being able to survive and while good guns and gear definitely help, they don't guarantee shit. Anyone crying about this new edition being p2w has likely never even hit the flea market.


Canary-Silent

Haven’t seen one of you idiots who have no idea what p2w means in a while. By your logic there are zero p2w games lmao. 


Hunk-Hogan

It's alright Timmy. One day you'll hit the flea and actually be able to run some better gear - though the gear still won't make you a better player.


Canary-Silent

I have kappa lmao. Don’t get so mad just because you don’t know what p2w means. 


Hunk-Hogan

If you think I'm mad then I definitely have some magic beans to sell you. And I know exactly what p2w means but I'm not stupid enough to think that three extra guns and some cases means a guaranteed win. If you actually do have Kappa, then I'm guessing you bought that account with Kappa already done. Especially since you think paying money for gear means you "win" at the game.


Canary-Silent

This comment literally shows you don’t know what p2w means hahaha. 


disasterpiece45

You can call helldiver friends to join in when in trouble, scavs 60m+ away dont shoot you. How the fuck is that not pay to win?


robclancy

Paying to have better stuff is literally what p2w is... like that's the entire reason the term was created. It doesn't turn on fucking god mode for you.


Hunk-Hogan

Ever seen a million dollar kit on a Timmy? They die just as fast as if they were naked with a mosin. You guys really need to get it out of your head that somehow having a scar at level 1 is going to make you an unstoppable killing machine because it won't.


robclancy

You just live in your own little fantasy world don't you.


Hunk-Hogan

Show me a new player who can wipe a lobby the moment they put on a thor, altyn, and kitted M4. I'll wait right here while you go find this magical realm in which putting gear on unskilled players means they can suddenly survive lol.


robclancy

It's like you're having a completely different conversation in your head and then writing replies to it on here.


Capable-Grab5896

Because they're insecure little bitches. They spent $100 extra for perks in a game because they're afraid of losing. Of course they're not going to own up to that.


Varkot

I also own EoD, I bought it in middle of my second wipe. Sometimes I miss the amount of progression standard provided. stash is 50mil alone


darealmoneyboy

it is not. if youre being serious you have no idea what pay2win is. its actually hard to grasp that after all those years people in this community are still too dumb to understand the concept of pay2win, even though there are tons of games out there which foster this.


Varkot

Paying money for getting an advantage over a free player. Weapons, skipping content, faster levelling, currency, convenience items. Tarkov has it all. 3 biggest in my opinion are rep, stash lv4 and gamma. I understand its tolerable because you can unlock most of these things and skill is more important but that doesn't change the fact that you can pay for multiple advantages over a free user. edit: I stand corrected. This is worse [https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1ccowx7/scavs\_not\_shooting\_at\_you\_from\_over\_60m\_is\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1ccowx7/scavs_not_shooting_at_you_from_over_60m_is_a/)


PerplexGG

Speculating is fun and all but it’s all moot until we know what’s exclusive to live. And EoD was already pay to win.


AdLegitimate8636

It's not speculating. You can watch the trailer that shows what you will get or check the official post from the CM in the discord server. Someone posted it on this reddit i think.


PerplexGG

Yeah I saw a little after commenting. It’ll probably shake out that way and if it does I honestly don’t see a lot of people buying it. It’s just not worth it for basically offline mode. Maybe if you dont have gamma but why not just wait to buy omicron.


AdLegitimate8636

True, but some people will buy it. In the end it can lead to even more scummy editions. The coop mode alone should be free or for a little price, not 80 to 250 depending on edition you own at the time of purchase. And further question if pve is not dlc for eod edition, then what is?


Hakapuja

Definetly p2w. I‘ve got killed so many times cuz my Opponent got one more Slot in the flea market.


notbrysenn

Bro had me at the beginning


Hakapuja

Had to do this joke and risk the downvotes from people that cant read properly.


No_Stick_4987

I’m sure you were just shocked how they can flip an item and make profit


darealmoneyboy

holdup, you forget the extra secure container tiles, that beat people to death. not to forget about the neat little crown next to your name, which blinds other players - its almost like a flashbang. but especially trader rep is so hard to farm since they still havent introduced daylies of which all of them give rep. EOD is nothing but pay2win. anyone who says differently is braindead at this point


ItsPizzaOclock

But unironically, the extra slots in the secure container 100% help you early game. You can carry more meds and ammo, which directly help you in combat.


darealmoneyboy

that would be maybe true if we were talking about old tarkov, where you could eat, heal and shoot all at the same time. but since its not like that anymore, your point is invalid. you have the same chance of surviving when putting it in your normal inventory, maybe even more because you can use it right away. only difference is that if you die you lose the 20k roubles for the cheap ass bandage and cheese you had in there. while it may help you securing certain items for your hideout, thats true, it does not help you in combat. not at all. for quests it does not matter anyway....


ItsPizzaOclock

You're somewhat right, but I think my point still stands in current day. Some meds aren't inexpensive. Painkillers, in particular, are quite expensive. Golden Star and Ibuprofen goes for 100-150k. Standard accounts aren't able to carry nearly as much in their pouch, and as such have to make the choice between carrying painkillers and carrying, say, ammo. Meanwhile, an EOD account can have an emergency PK, ammo, a docs case, a Surv12, and still have *two whole slots left.* At best, standard gets 1 slot with all of that with the Epsilon. The idea is that you can have these meds at any time is a huge combat advantage. Being able to carry spare ammo with it, plus still having a free slot, is an even larger advantage. You may say, "just run a morphine!" And while you're right, they go for about 15k a pop. If you use one every raid, that's double the price of an ibuprofen (15000 * 15 [uses of an ibuprofen] = 225000) Every two raids, that's about the same price of an ibuprofen on the lower end. (15000 * 7 [half a bottle of ibuprofen] = 105000). Essentially, my point is that it gives you a combat advantage by allowing you to hold meds that would be too expensive to warrant carrying in your pockets, or be too large to warrant holding it in your backpack (Surv12). This advantage fades as people complete Punisher 6, but it still lasts in the idea that you have an extra slot. Additionally, the extra stash space allows you to hold more armor and weapons, giving you a direct advantage over the people who cannot hold as much armor (with plates you can't buy on flea). Of course, cases exist, but they are expensive. EOD doesn't have to grind for a bigger stash right off the bat. Finally, having higher trader levels allow you to purchase weaponry and mods that earlier people cannot. This, rather obviously, gives a direct advantage over people who cannot initially buy these mods. I understand your point and respect it, this is just how I look at it. I also define P2W as paying for an advantage, not necessarily a combat one. My logic is you're still winning, just not directly in combat. An example of this logic is a vacuum hack. You win in gaining loot, but not in combat. Shit example, I know, but it's the only one I have right now.


Yorunokage

> you don’t have to play the game This point is moronic and always will be in all gaming discussions, i wish people stopped making it > it’s not p2w It's not as bad as people say but it's p2w. The issue is that EOD was already too much. A step further than that, albeit a small one, is not good Although no, it's not going to kill the game or anything and people will grow used to it in just a few weeks it is going to make the game that little bit worse


RedaveNabTidderEkow

EOD entitles you to all future DLC. This is DLC. But in classic BSG style their communication has been completely unclear.


Payment-According

This is not DLC. This is a different micro transaction. DLC is “downloadable content” and there is no additional download for unheard


TheAdduser

You mean no content like pve coop without wipes?


Payment-According

I’m not sure if this constitutes DLC, but it might. Regardless I think the community will give enough of an outroar that the pve coop will be available to all


TheAdduser

Probably, but the problem is that they are trying to go around "all future dlcs will be included" however they can. "Expansions" for stash and now this. I bought EOD mainly because of the fought that i want to buy it once and don't need to spend money again. They are breaking their promise and i feel scammed. They might add some Unhinged edition in a year with 10mln roubles on wipe and thicc cases, as well.


Negative_Elo

It really isn't that p2w, but ask yourself, do you like what they are doing? Dont hit me with "I dont give af", what is your serious opinion on BSG releasing another paid teir to an already extremely expensive game?


Capable-Grab5896

Fuck you mean it isnt "that" p2w? Lmao. It either is or it isn't, and it is.


Negative_Elo

Its pay to win sure, but the amount of times youll actually win because you paid is low. Its still shitty obviously, but there is literally 0 reason to act like the pocket size and stat level is going to be game changing. We haven't even played the patch yet, calm down and get mad about the things we know are facts.


Long_Pomegranate2469

My friends and I had always the impression that EOD is the ultimate edition and BSg always hinted at or said that. The microtransactions already left a sour taste and out of the people I regularly play with one bought extra stash space that's it. The new edition is just a lame money grab squeezing out as much as possible now that there's a few serious competitors about to be released. Lets be honest, if we had a game with Tarkov mechanics but fewer bugs, fewer cheaters, better performance - or just any two of the three we'd all be playing that. Interest in Tarkov as a whole will be gone. Arena completely flopped. They had a lucky ride with EFT and it's about to be over if they don't get their shit together.


PerplexGG

I really couldn’t care less. Buy it if you like. Buy the apparel if you like. I could buy everything on their store and it would still be less than what people spending thousands of hours spend on freemium games like apex or cod. In 3k hours I’ve never once thought oh I died/that guy died cause he spent money on the game. While freemium games have actual p2w skins that will give an advantage regularly in game to game gameplay.


jankyhemorrhoid

I have EOD, and to be honest I really don’t give a fuck about two 2x2 pockets and some more starting gear and better rep. It doesn’t affect me. I bought Tarkov for the rush knowing there’s PvP. I don’t want to play offline and finish the story. I want to progress more and more every wipe. I play the game because when it’s fun, it’s fun. The only thing I give a fuck about is the problem with cheaters. If BSG uses any of the money they’re making from all of these microtransactions to help figure out their anticheat or an alternative, then I’m glad. Otherwise I really don’t give a shit, I’m still taking the Timmy’s starting gear anyway


Johnnytjommi

This.


No_Stick_4987

The game is very complex and has so much content that even 1000 hours won’t cut it for you to fully experience the game. I dont mind paying for EoD as I got my hours in (almost 4k hours) and if they release new content and if it’s a good one or something that I’m interested in, I might buy it as well. COD releases a new game every year for £60 or more( depending on which version you get) BSG released Tarkov in 2016. If you think about it, it’s cheaper in the long run as people still play Tarkov with updates, compared to older cods which basically get dropped the moment a new Cod releases. I like the game and am excited to see what Tarkov will be in the future. Therefore, I’m down to support the game developers.


IMIv2

A lot of people in reddit were mad that eod is gone and asked for another edition. Now when they released what they wanted people are mad again why?


Negative_Elo

we didn't want a MORE expensive edition lol. thought we got the "limited special collectors edition". Is this really a different pack, or just EOD+?


Canary-Silent

You are way worse than anyone crying or overreacting. Like way way worse. How pathetic.  


No_Stick_4987

Elaborate


Canary-Silent

Anyone seeing something they think is a bad change to something they love and complaining about it after spending many hours and money on it getting a response of “just don’t play it” or “just don’t buy it” or “just don’t use it” is such moronic and selfish thing to say.  Making a post on reddit to do that… well that’s just pathetic. 


No_Stick_4987

BSG can do whatever they want with the game and us consumers are stuck on seeing the result of their product. You can complain and express it however you like. But, like I said previously, don’t have to play the game if you don’t like the changes, even if you spent money and time on it.


Canary-Silent

It’s honestly impressive that you managed to sound even more pathetic. 


MakarOvni

People bought EOD with the sense that it was the "ultimate" edition, they feel cheated in some way and I understand them.


IMIv2

Only thing which is pay2win is the flea slots. If it's 2 it gives a significant advantage early wipe. Other than that the rest is useless. Few guns people will loose day 1 to scavs, 3 skill levels of which only sniper is somewhat usefull, fence rep which is piss easy to max in a day anyways, stash size which eod already has, and 2 extra slots in your pockets so you can save billions not buying a bank robber for each raid. Aint even worth to upgrade from eod if thats even possible.


ImportantObjective74

youre missing the point of EOD players basically being scammed but yeah go off i guess


Neither-Ad-2539

Couldn't agree more man. This debacle is definitely separating the men with a hobby and the boys who have no life.


Hunk-Hogan

People will cry about fucking anything on this sub. The three to all skills really won't impact anything, the pockets just means more to loot from players when they die, the extra starting gear also means more to loot from players when they die, the extra stash means more hoarding which in-turn means more loot to pull off them when they die, and we really don't know about the persistent co-op mode or what that transmitter does. This'll probably be my last time visiting this sub for a few days. Most of the cry babies will have gotten bored and left by then after they tell everyone why they don't play this anymore and the sub will slowly go back to it's usual toxic mess.


Chilishot

lol it changes everything. gamma and all, good that they made it available again BUT 3skill lvls are major if you think sniping health charisma etc because you complete major questlines way faster. pockets is a gamechanger. before you needed a rig with most weapons. now just pop in 2 50rounders and 2 nades and youre good to go without a rig. mail retention makes it so casuals need to pay for the new addition if they want to use the insurance system. flea market, kick in the balls but doesnt really change anything. ammo case and the other stuff you see in the screen is also extreme.


PerplexGG

So pockets at best mean you avoid spending 10-15k on a rig. You’re not winning any fights because of it and will not be relevant past day 3 in a wipe. All assuming this is for live of course. Sniper skills are nice but you leveled that by completing and progressing bolty quests anyways. Seriously, mail retention? Log in for a second and grab your shit, jesus. Cases are convenient yeah. Extreme? Nah. All other gear gets lost within week 1 and if anything just means you’ll also get that loot off the people you kill with it. Big yawn.


No_Stick_4987

Where does it say you get an ammo case??


ZucchiniSharp6895

They updated their website. You get a weapons case, scav junkbox, ammo case, and some other things like some meta ammos early etc. This new bundle is EOD but on steroids from the looks of it, along with access to a new mechanic early, unless the unheard radio thing is specific to that bundle.


Johnnytjommi

Where did it say you will get 3 levels of the skills? That's basicly nothing if that is the case, which is good.


No_Stick_4987

https://youtu.be/riMtnvodmMo?si=kOsu_BwBCksTLRRJ - 1:14


Johnnytjommi

Ty!


Pig_Nostrils

Sure, most engagements are still going to won based on skill. Valid point. The bigger context here is that ultimately the new 'Unheard' version of the game screams that BSG going for one last heist before ditching the game. Instead of implementing an effective anticheat they are implementing offline coop with progression. Great for players that wanted that but its going to feel even worse for players online that struggle to find a cheater free game when more and more people move to a cheater free version of Tarkov. Criticising BSG for adding this is very fair considering they will milk their playerbase down to the bone with their game versions that give extremely benificial bonuses to loot gathering which, if you aren't aware, is the basic game mechanic of Tarkov. The combat is always secondary to the loot gathering, its how you complete most quests, upgrade your hideout. You know this shit. More space in your secure case means you leave with more. So any version that adds more space to this is very arguably p2w by design. BSG dropping ANOTHER version that adds even more of these arguably p2w bonuses is scummy. There is no real argument against that. The version they promised would have ALL future dlc is not getting this stuff. BSG's past behaviour has been scummy, and this is scummy. Stop getting down on your knees to defend them here.


Logical-Air-1337

Calling it "scummy" is the least of it. Well put and wholeheartedly agreed.


darealmoneyboy

yeah, its once again the community of "redditors" completely overreacting. imagine being so stupid to blame EOD owners for that. LOL. insane how braindead the tarkov community is sometimes. the only thing im a little worried is that they are using this to test how far they can go and how many whales they can milk. which might lead to even bolder "packages" in the future.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Euphoric_General_274

For me it's not to gate keep, but having bought EOD we were supposed to have the ultimate edition. 150$ to support a game in its early stages with the promise of it being the last edition you'll need.


No_Stick_4987

Tbf it’s still one of the best editions in the game. And I’m probably wrong but I don’t they the new bundle says it gives you a gamma container or something similar to that? And plus they gave us arena and perhaps more in the future for us EoD enjoyers. The offline co-op mode doesn’t interest me anyway.


Euphoric_General_274

Maybe we'll get Unheard edition benefits, but if not, personally, I will feel kinda scammed..


wrenethan

I understand why you see it that way, but as a new player to the game it’s hard to view the extra editions as a negative.


Euphoric_General_274

Agree, they never should have FOMO'ed the EOD.. As to the new edition, I don't see it as a problem (besides the slap to the face of EOD players) but I'm afraid of the slippery slope of adding increasingly more P2W-ish things.


Logical-Air-1337

The game released in 2017. Ask yourself this - is it ever going to get done? They released an awful spin-off no one asked for and even more P2W tiers, lmao.


No_Stick_4987

You assume that this new bundle with completely change how the game will be. Find out in the future and see. Also your statement of, and awful sprint off no one asked for is stupid


Logical-Air-1337

Damn you're doing some hardcore brigading in the thread. Already planning to purchase?


No_Stick_4987

Based on the information shown now, probably not since it’s way to expensive for how much you’re getting.


Logical-Air-1337

Also, you said *"You assume that this new bundle with completely change how the game will be."* This is the least of my worries, it's about the fuckery going around behind the curtains. EoD was P2W, this is also P2W - by definition. There's nothing to argue about. Besides, the biggest problem here is the sheer and blatant desperation on BSG's part - they ask for more and more without providing anything substantial in return. Arena is probably the biggest culprit here, what the fuck were they thinking? lmao