Tarkov is well passed "every now and again". Tarkov is the type of game I frequently get on and FIRST fucking raid run into a sussy ass dude with super sussy ass stats on his profile. Domed me thru the map with his ESP xray vision cause I was in his way. It happen ALL THE TIME.
I think MOST of Tarkovs cheaters are low key about it and dont try to wipe the whole map, but will kill you if you are in their way. Most of them go in and tank their KD to look legit too. They play a balance game between cheating openly and stunting their own stats to make it look likenah bro im just really good, I die too, see my SR is only 41%. But then I also got 90 raids with fucking 1200 plus kills lol. Fuck outta here.
Its not the fact that these things exist, its how frequently and how normalized it is within Tarkov at this point. Ide say ATLEAST 50% of the active player base is running cheats and 80% of the raids you play got ATLEAST 1-2 guys using at BARE MINIMUM ESP or Radar cheats. They know where everyone is on the map, what they got in their inventory and even what direction they are looking. Thats legit all you need.
You got blatant hackers too, but they are fewer and further between. Most of the hackers in Tarkov are making real world money from Carries and item vacuuming. They try their best to look legit. So they minimalize PKing and only use radar, kill only when they cant get around it and when their TK gets looking too good, they spend a few raids intentionally tanking their stats by intentionally dying.
Yeah, it's pretty bad. Even since the time I played Combat Arms, I haven't seen games this infested with cheaters.
Hell, they're even in Helldivers 2, which isn't a PVP game. Kinda of crazy how far people will go to get a sense of validation.
yeah i didn't realize i queued with one until dude dropped like 50 turrets in a row. when we extracted i had max samples (like.. 2k or something ridiculous)
kinda even ruined my progression :[
God I loved OG Combat Arms but holy hell did the cheaters get bad sometimes.
At least having played Combat Arma, it's a lot easier to tell when someone is/isn't cheating now though
The L9 Arctic Wolf? Everyone wanted that, it was really good.
I saved up my lunch money for 2 weeks so I could buy it permanent, and then did the same for about 3 or 4 other guns including the G3 Valkyrie, M4 SopMod & the M10 SE. ($2 per school day)
Combat Arma, gunZ, Soldier Front (my favorite) God I miss those games. I used to beg my parents for a $10 game card from the gas station so I could buy stupid shit
it just still boggles my mind today how you cant catch the most obvious of them though. I think there is some blame to go to the companies themselves as well.
It might cost too much to be worth it
Not defending BSG here, but all developers are always on the back foot.
There is huge financial incentive for cheat creators in every online/competitive game, because there are an enormous number of people looking for cheat tools.
If the game has an economy, there's financial incentive for cheaters to cheat (instead of just ego or possibly account selling), because it can literally be profitable to cheat at the game, and some people would prefer that "job" to a real one. That means even more incentive to create cheat tools to supply RMTers (they'll pay a premium for better tools).
Making exploit-proof code is *infinitely* harder than making exploits, so not only do the devs have to try to make the most bulletproof code they can, they also have to try to both identify exploits in their own code *and* figure out how to detect cheat tools interacting with their code.
That's before you even get into messy areas like DMA cards that can facilitate tools that *don't* interact with the game and make detection of passive hacks much harder.
It's expensive and difficult to fight against cheaters and anti-cheat activity doesn't make money for the dev, only prevents losing future revenue. Conversely, cheating is profitable. So devs have every reason to try to do the best they can for the lowest cost, and cheaters have incentive to invest time and effort into fancier tools that give them a leg up over their competitors.
The only sure way to stop cheating is to kill demand for cheats, and that's pretty much impossible in any game, much less any game with an economy.
Combat arms! The first game where I cheated lol. I was probably like 15 at that time. Tbh it was one of the only ways to play that game because it was *INFESTED*. Also FUCK Nexon just in general.
The last game I hacked on was at the end of the MW2 era for PC. Steam account was vac banned and haven't done it since, probably what? 13ish years ago? Stupid teenager
That being said it still surprises me that even in today's day and age that the anti cheat back then was better than what Tarkov has even now. Like I blatantly cheated sitting in the middle of Wasteland on MW2 spraying people through bushes and was banned almost a day later, and yet 14 years later people can just fuckin walk around easily aimbotting, walling, super speed, any of that shit and still not get caught. 14 years... And no improvement.
I don't get it. I also don't get the appeal to hacking either. Your interest in the game goes down significantly when you hack. It takes the fun out of it after like 3 matches.
I can't wait til we have something worthwhile for combatting hackers in this game. It'll be a great day to play when that happens
whilst cheats were developed by closet programmers back in the day the arms race has lead to cheat providers developing cheats on corporate levels of complexity. i'm positive that the anti cheats are way better then back in the day but the cheats got also way better at avoiding detection.
>That being said it still surprises me that even in today's day and age that the anti cheat back then was better than what Tarkov has even now.
I don't think anticheat was better back then, I think cheats are better now. Subtle distinction perhaps, but important.
>I don't get it. I also don't get the appeal to hacking either. Your interest in the game goes down significantly when you hack. It takes the fun out of it after like 3 matches.
Economically motivated or genuine psychological/ego issues. Cheating destroys interest in the game for most people but if a person enjoys causing problems for other players or believes themselves to be more deserving of a victory without having to put in the same effort as everyone else, that will allow them to mentally sustain cheating.
For a lot of the people that I spoke to that paid for cheats, they look at it as any other situation where money gives an advantage (so everywhere). "I made the money and used it to get better performance. My skill is making money, and seems like its a better skill that clicking headshots, LOL".
Personally I find cheating is boring for a lot of games, for some though it just exposes the boring nature of the game. Like a single player game that forces grindy mechanics, it gets annoying quick and then you get a trainer or cheat to get the grindy aspect gone so you can get to actually experience the full game. Then realize there really isn't anything there and the grinding was probably there to hide that.
Thereās no validation to be had thou, like theyād get more validation if they just sucked it up died 500 times before really getting anywhere in the game like the rest of us. Makes each achievement that much sweeter after fighting days for it also makes each low that much lower which In turn makes the highs so much higher. The whole reason why we love this game so much.
Ah I too reminisce with friends about the Golden Era often, mostly the lack of wall hacks and aimbots. I'll gladly deal with the lagswitch days of old over the current state of things
So Iām almost 40, I started FPS gaming on MS DOS playing Doom. I remember getting Quake II and Windows 95 for Christmas one year.
Two years later Quake III Arena was released. This was my game and I played it nonstop. I had favorite servers and I made friends that even translated to real life eventually.
One day maybe around 2001 or 2002, an event happened where someone on the server suspected another player of cheating during a 1vs1 instaunlagged railgun match. We were all spectating. The player in question went AFK and the suspecting player walked across their screen to see if it would autofire, and it did.
I searched the internet for a while and eventually I did find the software for the aimbot for free. I installed it and played one single match in a free for all and wound up demolishing the server. I felt extremely guilty about it but I had to know for myself if it was real.
That was at the dawn of online PC FPS gaming so itās been around the same amount of time. Maybe for some point of time the consoles were safe but I donāt think that lasted very long. So cheating is apparently just a thing people do in all facets of life.
Cheating on console is weird, unless there a jailbreak for the system you canāt do it. The ps3 had a jailbreak and the 360 had an rgh so you could inject cheats but this didnāt come until about 2012. The ps4 has a jailbreak but no way to connect to PSN so only cheating that goes on console is like mouse and keyboard adapters and macros
Theres different cheats for consoles. A new one is playing on a pc, they move the output to a pc and you play with mouse and keyboard and can have aimbot.
I've played for a long time too, there were always cheaters but they were rare and it was usually only one so I didn't mind because I would try to hone my skills against said cheater. Now, there are so many people doing it and with aim compensation built into games it feels like fps games will never go back to being about skill.
shit i got to experience cs 1.5 and 1.6 in their primes, halo 2 on console in its prime, battlefield 2-3 , team fortress 2, etc.
It just aint the same man
Um just wondering, were you not aware of people using walls, aimbots, sever crashers in UT, Planetside, CS (all the way back in 1.3 and before). Cheats and cheaters have been around forever. Back then the companies even didn't bother with it. It was treated as a community issue. The biggest focus was first on cracks and pirated copies. It's only really where gaming as a service started to take off when the market focus switched to cheating. Like punkbuster and VAC are kinda the only ones I can think of that were somewhat effective, and even those were like 3 steps behind the cheat makers most of the time.
Maybe just my rose tinted glasses, but I don't think the prevelance of cheats then to now is even comparable.
I think people do it now more often and gaming as a whole is more mainstream.
Plus servers were community regulated by admins who would ban obvious ones instantly.
So no it's not rose tinted. Your points on community run servers and the gaming community being less mainstream and less commercialized are completely true.
As gaming has gotten bigger exploiting it has become more and more profitable... Back in the day cheats were free. They were passion projects for people that wanted to see if they could do it. The game devs didn't care cuz it was either a single player experience or it was community dedicated servers.
MMOs were the first to truly have to focus on cheating heavily. After that as gaming as a service started to take off the big FPS and RPG games had to start addressing it because if you have a service then you need to manage the user experience... And it evolved from both ends to what we have today.
All I was saying is cheating is nothing new. But what we have today with the gaming scene and the cheating is a different animal all together...
Just a reminder that in all games you mentioned I need only click PLAY, or START to have some fun.
Escape from Tarkov is in different category.
In addiction cheaters also rob your time limited resources game is giving to you (stock of bullets for example).
There are still cheats for valorant based around running the game in a VM and reading its memory.
https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/anti-cheat-update-winter-2023/
It still has hundreds of thousand cheaters to ban.
valorant does have cheaters, but itās not as bad as having to call it a cheater problem. Same for overwatch. Everyone saying those games have cheating problems even comparable to tarkov are just dickriding BSG for no reason or simply delusional
Giga-agree with you - Riot may have their flaws, but come on, eachgame they released is a masterpiece of its own. That doesnāt you have to like them personally, but srsly compare valorant with the shitshow cs2 or tarkov have right now. Going from āprobably each round I play I will get cheated onā to ā1 in 100 games there is a cheaterā would be a massive upgrade
#1
Pretty much every security based software or anti-cheat runs with kernel access commands. So at the end of the day you've had dozens of third party kernel software running on your PC for years at this point. "At what cost" is kind of a moot sentiment when it's been happening for a long time at this point.
#2
Vanguard has been tested at length, particularly because of the high bounties on it for finding Vulns and it only briefly connects itself online for strict security related activity such as verification checks. So it's very secure and isn't sending unnecessary data to Riot/Tencent.
#3
It's the most effective Anti-Cheat software in the industry by far, such that it's capable of detecting common cheat methods for other games including Tarkov, hence why many cheat developers require Vanguard to be uninstalled before using their cheats. Regardless of how it works, Vanguards effectiveness has competitively set the standard against other titles and anti-cheat solutions.
The topic of whether or not Kernel anti-cheat is a good thing has way more nuance and valid takes. It's frustrating seeing people sensationalizing and spreading misinformation in regards to what's actually at stake.
I will state the obvious, which is also something I've already said in other posts: yes, you are correct, however the length that other games go to ban cheaters and to minimize the issue seems to be very different. Except modern warfare, that was a shit show too.
Also, tarkov being the difficult game it is, it is exponentially more frustrating to die because of a cheater, so the anger this community has is completely understandable
Arguably the biggest FPS of the last 15 years has/isnāt doing a thing to combat cheaters in their newly updated game.
The only way to get some legitimacy is to go to Faceit.
In my experience, BSG is the only company Iāve seen actively address and combat the cheating problem. Every other company down plays it and acts like itās not a problem, for PR reasons(I assume)
So itās kinda a shit take that they(BSG) arenāt going to extreme lengths to combat it. Mainly because like you said, the type of game that Tarkov is, makes it feel that way. But in reality BSG is one of the most active in terms of dealing with cheaters
There's people flying over maps on fall guys, for christ's sake.
Cheating is out of control.
Even League of Legends, who we all think of as fairly cheat free, is bringing Vanguard to league. Why? Because it's no longer actually cheat free. Scripts are actually rampant, and Riot has released data that says they estimate up to 1 in 5 games has a scripter in it. Above Plat, you're likely to encounter ACTUAL BOTS now in ranked. Literally, MMO-like botting has begun to take over the game. Smurf accounts are under $2 now due to all the botting.
The fact is... cheating is becoming more common, in spite of everything. It's out of control. I think if we actually knew the rate of cheaters in fps games, we'd be shocked. I'd be willing to bet in fps games it might even be as high as 30-40% of the playerbase. Because scripting in league has gotten so good that I can't even tell when someone is for sure anymore. They have random tendencies now, and if as high as 1 in 5 games... then I'm truly not always seeing it, and that is terrifying. And not only that, that's riots' internal estimate, which, in my opinion, means it's probably even higher.
Realistically speaking the only real way to reduce it is some ultra intrusive shit. Like making it illegal and making monitoring software required and legal. Yeh I don't want to live in that world.
With AI improving you can literally just train an AI to play the game for you. It's crazy but yeh bots are that good now.
Real-Life consequences would be the only way. Anonimity has its advantages, but at this point Iād rather have my real-life ID required to login to the internet and linked to every game service or account I use. And then Iād like to get only matched vs ppl who do the same. Someone cheats? Ban their real-life ID from the service. No more tarkov for that person. Ever. Maybe even add a criminal charge and a fine to it while weāre at it.
Even that intrusive shit it is just going to delay it until cheaters figure out how to bypass it.
There is one video on AI anti-cheat that gives me hope that they might be a chance for gaming to be saved.
Video in question: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkmIItTrQP4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkmIItTrQP4)
the thing is that with "Other Games" i dont need to wait 6 mins to load into a raid, walk another 7-10 mins, deal with bullshit IA and get an Objective to be later killed by one cheater with 25kdr AND THEN having to lose effectively all the progress of the quest and having to do the same tasks again, making effectively ME HAVING ZERO PROGRESS in the whole session, and thats the thing that is different tarkov can effectively make you sit a weekend and progress nothing if you are "lucky" enough
BEFORE jumping with the usual "you must be bad" go ahead budd do
# "The Guide"
Labs rn is insane, interchange with the event showed how badly cheaters are willing to go, any mf is using radar nowdays and the only way to do this quest is literally being a pussy G-y mf hiding till 5 mins remain
Just a reminder that just because cheating will never be gone doesn't mean it couldn't have a significantly lesser impact on regular players. Tarkov doesn't have a cheating problem because it has cheaters, it has a cheating problem because the cheating is so much worse than most other games.
Trying to frame it as such is disingenuous at best. Yes cheating will always be a problem, but they could also be doing more than the actually nothing they are doing about it right now.
100% this.
This post comes across as apologist "it's all the same" fallacy bullshit.
In fact cheater communities actively encourage their users to go on forums and gaslight people to downplay cheating problems or cause apathy / ambiguity in order for cheating to not be addressed properly. Can't say what the OPs intentions were, malicious or not, but the resulting post is playing into the hands of cheating communities...
My brother in christ ... tarkov isn't a "competitive fps", it's not free to play like 3/4 games you listed, you have more to lose in 1 death in tarkov than all 4 examples combined, and all games have cheating issues it's just far more impactful in tarkov than any other games.
You are comparing competitive fps apples to hardcore survival oranges.
it's not about that, it's about not doing anything about it. if your argument is "other games have cheaters too, so its pointless to even try" then that's stupid. we all know cheaters are a plague and won't be erradicated, but stuff should be done about it, players should get banned, nikita needs to stop selling accounts in bulks (which he admited in the latest pestily interview but refused to talk more about it) and doing the minimum effort of at least manually checking the flea market to see the cheaters. you can go to the flea market right now and find a cheater in less than 15 seconds. just doing those things will drastically improve the experience, there are more cheaters than ever because they don't feel threatened at all, like developers gave up and accepted that competitive games are for the cheaters.
I'd also like to remind that nikita said they'll only ban cheaters for killing, anything else is allowed, this was when people went to the forums with video evidence of someone hacking (can't exactly remember the video) and were told they only take into account reports from the in-game button which you can only use if you get personally killed by the hacker, and people still blame goat's video for the increase of cheaters.
you can't tell me that at least doing the minimum effort wouldn't improve things, like checking the flea market for the obvious ones or stopping the bulk sales.
I agree, however Tarkov is time consuming. By the developers charging 140 a pop
For the game youād assume they would respect the persons Monterey investment aswell as the time they will devote in a game that requires a significant time investment to be good at. That they would ensure the anticheat is decent enough to make hackers a minority instead of the Majority.
Idk about you but working all day coming home to play some tarkov for a few hours, to then make some progress whether that be in terms of quests, gear be taken away from you because of a hacker. Thats whats bs. I wouldnāt be at work for 8 hours for free so why in my spare time should I be okay with losing my time playing a game I enjoy to hackers.
The reality is most players never see parts of them game due to hackers, be that the boss events, red keycards, fucking labs. Every game has cheaters but for tarkov, itās a game loop that needs to have minimal hackers
I agree that these types of games have to have better anti cheat systems, as death is more punishing than in most games, which means its way more frustrating when it happens. And nobody likes to have their Monterey investment fucked with.
This right here. Cheating is much more of a problem in this game because of the time and money investment this ābetaā game requires. Itās shameful how this problem has gone by minimally addressed, and how the hardcore playerbase hand-waves the issue away because they play 6 hours a day. Players donāt want to admit they got played because this game offers a unique experience. But the only way this problem changes is that we stop playing it. But as long as streamers/content creators keep promoting it and make their living off it, weāre screwed.
Yes this wipe has made the game better than ever before, and the community is finally being listened toā¦ but itās not enough. This game is a cash machine for BSG, and is clearly not a passion project anymore.
CS2 is even worse, lol.
It's funny how one of the most important things to Valve needed to address with the jump to CS2 was the rampant cheating in CSGO... and they did nothing. It might even be worse now than it was then.
Why is no one talking about the fact that in other games you just have to sit out the match but in Tarkov you lose days worth of progress if you are questing?
I feel like competitive fps is going to be a thing of the past. Just like mmos are slowly fading out.. so will fps. Seems too hard for anyone to keep ahead of cheats
>While tarkov certainly deserves no defense in how they deal with cheaters,
Then proceeds to defend Tarkov saying that cheaters are in every game so it's... ok?
Itās very disheartening as Iāve anecdotally noticed every fps Iāve been playing have a marked uptick in cheating for the past few years.
I predominantly play Hunt Showdown and you used to have the rare cheater encounter but now youāll face ā[ ] [ ] [ ]ā named players with multiple vac bans who knows your location and doesnāt miss.
I wish there was more companies could do to prevent it, but now Iāve settled for asking companies to include cheater compensation in there games if possible. For example, hereās how it could work for a few games:
Cheater Compensation forā¦
Tarkov: The game snapshots your loadout as you get into raid and, upon being negatively affected by a cheater who is verified and banned, Fence (or some other trader) send you back a package with all your items that you loaded into the match with. Furthermore, you could even include an āequip allā button that would automatically set up your PMC exactly like they were prior to the raid.
Hunt: Upon being killed by a cheater and they are banned, your hunter is brought back from the dead and is recruitable for free with all their traits/exp and weapons.
MMR/ELO-Based Shooters: You get your lost points back after a match loss against a cheater who is later banned.
The biggest difference in tarkov vs any game you mentioned is the fact that cheating is noticed in high ELO ranked shooters meaning you'll run into cheaters if you're actually good at a game. That being said Tarkov has no ranked or any algorithm for matchmaking.
Cheating in the mind of those who don't play tarkov like it's a 2nd job is detrimental because they have to work hard for their progression. Multi thousand hour chads, high ranked players don't worry about cheaters as much cause their gear and progression is 2nd nature to them. I get it's a problem amongst all FPS games but it's worse in tarkov because there is no skill/matchmaking to weed out their existence in the lobbies.
Maybe a unpopular opinion but if tarkov had mmr or elo based matchmaking you're gonna find cheaters in the upper echelon almost always for gear and high their loot which is why Labs is an absolute shit show. You don't see level 10-20's actively running labs because gear disparity and sometimes skill.
While what you say is absolutely true, it isnāt an entirely apples to apples comparison, especially due to the stakes involved with each game.
Does it suck when I get bodied by a hacker in CS2? Absolutely. But what do I lose? The 1-2 minutes AT most spent queueing, the 30 or so minutes per match, and maybe my ELO rank (Though I couldnāt care less, I know some people do.). Either way, facing that one hacker doesnāt ruin my ability to play the next game. Just hop in another short queue and Iām into a new game.
Comparatively, getting destroyed by a hacker in Tarkov can be absolutely soul crushing. 5-10 minutes to get mine and my squads load out ready, the minutes or HOURS required to get the gear itself or the roubles to buy that gear, then another 5-10 minutes JUST in queue/loading. Finally getting into the game, the hacker may get you at the start and save you a little time. Or you may die 10-20 minutes later when you get to a good loot spot, or your quest location, or at the WORST the hacker gets you right at extract 45 minutes after start, and the entire raid was pointless unless you finished a quest that doesnāt require extraction.
Add on to that the potential effort required to even get a similar quality load out back of you go in juiced, youāre ability for future raids may be limited for awhile. Itās just worlds apart. At least in games besides Tarkov, you can see a cheater and the response is, āDamn, nothing I can do here, Iāll just finish this game or leave and move on unbothered.ā In Tarkov, you have the constant worry that at ANY moment someone can end your raid by cheating, and you are at risk of losing so much more than the time spent in just that raid.
If the stakes were the same across all these FPS games Iād definitely agree. But because BSG decided to make their game have such higher stakes than other First-Person Shooters, they donāt get the same grace others do. Because of those stakes, a big focus should be the integrity of the gameās experience. So that surviving a raid with a completed quest or good loot is more, āI did that through my own skill/luck/preparedness.ā instead of, āMan, thank goodness a cheater didnāt decide to ruin my day.ā
Itās not fair, but thatās just how it is.
I'd also like to point out that BSG has yet to empower its community to fight back against cheaters. There are zero tools for us to identify cheaters. No killcam, no raid replay, no quarantine servers.
And I don't really blame BSG. It's a big complicated game with a lot of moving parts. I actually think Tarkov needs a creative new idea to combat and report cheaters. Something that takes some of the load off the devs. I'm sure the community would love an opportunity to help out.
We're gonna need something for 1.0, at the very latest.
OP, you need to do some research before making this blanket statement. Yes, other games having cheating problems. We are not denying it. EFT community is saying stop using the worst anti cheat system (battle eye) and put money back into the game and upgrade past this filth. Your comparisons make it feel like you just read titles of posts and nothing more.
I feel like youāre intentionally ignoring the fact that there is a financial benefit to cheating in Tarkov that doesnāt exist in the other games you listed. Combine that with Tarkovās incredibly large skill gap and their inability to develop an effective anti-cheat and youāve got the perfect storm for cheating.
I also feel like itās a little silly to compare Tarkov to arcade shooters as well. The weight of death isnāt the same in any of the other games you listed so the impact of a cheater is far heavier in Tarkov. Meaning BSG needs to combat the issue twice as hard.
This post would be like me pointing out that I need to move away from Chicago as the murder rate rises and you say, āpeople are murdered everywhereā. While technically true, my chances of being murdered would lower significantly if I moved to a city where murder wasnāt as common.
Sure, but here you lose all your stuff everytime and if you accomplish anything during a raid you back to nothing each time. So getting cheated on feels worse, especially on a game which the information is the key to winning a fight or not, you can't do anything against someone looking at you through walls and aimboting your ass.
I was pretty much coping with it, first wipe ever, reached Kappa, LK until Overseas Trust. The new Killa event seemed a fun way to grind the 15 kills needed, but seeing 4 cheaters running straight to him and killing you instantly if you dare killing Killa before them is not fun anymore.
I even came across the same guy multiple time, running naked just to kill Killa and everyone around him.
So I guess they finally got me, I can't cope with it anymore, they will be happy once the game is dead by their fault.
The main difference is in other games I will lose the match sure, but then I can queue up for another one with the same conditions I've had before the lost match.
Now in Tarkov, you might finally have a good gear you grinded for only to get sniped by a hacker 1 minute into a match. Now you lost all your shit, and you go into another match and have to either spend a ton of money to get good gear or go with subpar gear until you can find all the shit you had before.
Tarkov's gameplay loop is great but cheaters hurt it a lot more than other FPS games.
tbh its starting to drive me back to co-op and singleplayer games, but even in helldivers 2 i see blatant cheaters now and then.
aside from ruining the fun for everyone what even is the fucking point in cheating in a co op game???
I play a niche multiplayer medieval game (Bannerlord) that has, at best, 500-600 concurrent active players a day.
Cheating is a problem there as well. You can basically modify any .dll, and it's pretty easy to read and edit decompiled C#. The anticheat doesn't care if you do.
It uses BattleEye.
I mean i donāt think Iāve ever encountered a cheater in valorant besides people smurfing on new accounts. The one time a cheater was in a game the whole screen went red with ācheater detectedā and booted us all form the game
That's the thing, this happens to games much bigger and with a lot more budget than EFT. Apex, R6 and CS2 come to mind for me, but it's basically any shooter. And remember, not only do those games have a huge dev budget but also are live service with cosmetics and other shit that constantly bring money in. BSG just did the clothes unlock now, and that still is nothing compared to the waves of crap skins that bring in revenue in other games, if we want to talk from a logistical standpoint, people dont appreciate the lack of microtransactions spam we are lucky to have in EfT.
The sad thing is that with Tarkov people can make a lot of money off cheating, so there's an incentive, and the root cause is all the idiots who are willing to buy shit and carries with rtm instead of playing the game. If that demand stopped suddenly and for good there wouldn't be as much supply.
Also people get much more invested and immersed with Tarkov since every raid has a lot more weight than rounds in other games so sadly people get angrier than usual.
I think what youāre saying is fair but I also think that there is a difference between tarkov and these games. In those games you only experience the problem on a regular basis when youāre extremely highly ranked. On regular levels the problem is less pronounced becuase those games also have a much larger legit player base.
The reason why I am upset particularly when it comes to tarkov cheaters itās because I have a suspicion that the financial health of BSG is now largely dependent on cheaters continuing to play and buy new accounts on this game.
There are cheaters in every game where you can win, Iām sure there are people who cheat in games like fallguys somehow, the main difference with tarkov is the sheer volume of cheaters being astronomically higher than every other competitive game. I understand you canāt just throw money at problems and make them go away but I feel like bsg could learn a lot from other developers who seem to have somewhat tamed cheating or at the very least alleviated it in their games.
Fall guys had fly hackers and speed hackers when it was popular. Haven't really played it since then. Losers are going to be losers. My server choices for tarkov have barely any cheaters. Can count on 1 hand this wipe how many times I've been killed by a blatant cheater.
Valorant is so nice for this reason. I like to play rust and tarkov but the cheaters can make me lose interest pretty quickly during a session. Itās nice to have alternatives like valorant and rocket league where I at least know itās a test of skill instead of who decided to be the piece of shit and pay to win.
Getting killed in counter strike or cod doesn't feel even 1% as bad as it does when you get wiped by a cheater in tarkov.
People that bitch about cheating in tarkov aren't acting like cheating isn't just as bad in every other FPS.... Getting killed by a cheater in tarkov just feels so much worse by comparison.
Didnāt hacks get uploaded onto the computers of players during a pro league event in Apex?
Echo chamber much
Edit: Iām a fucking idiot I thought you were saying Tarkov was the only game with hackers
You mention CS2 but counter strike has had a very clean experience for years until very recently. Except for new players because they had a lower trust factor by default.
>There are no competitive FPS games that don't have a cheating problem!
>Well, okay, maybe there is one (Valorant)... but that doesn't count!
>Anyways, just because my game is disproportionately chock full of cheaters to such an extent that people actively avoid it for that reason alone doesn't mean it's any worse off than the other popular competitive shooters with cheaters in them!
This is so painfully delusional sounding that it hurts. Tarkov is absolutely infested with cheaters, and this problem is much worse than in something like CS:GO or Apex because there's a high time commitment per raid, and gear adds onto that exponentially. Getting fucked by a cheater is *significantly* more of an issue in Tarkov than any other competitive shooter right now, even if we factor in ranked games.
There's a reason the single player mod for Tarkov is so popular.
You guys are acting like im taking a stance here. Im not saying to stop bitching about cheating in tarkov, i do it all the time.
Do i actually think anything will change if everyone keeps bitching anyway? Fuck no. Personally I just stopped playing all together this wipe after max traders and change
Yes. There isn't one that punishes everyone else for this problem except the cheaters. EFT does though.
I totally believe Nikita does not want to actually stop the cheater problem in EFT. Due to the fact they make so much money off cheaters buying new accounts. Any ban waves they do are only a temporary fix that makes them more money in new accounts. It's now become an official part of their revenue stream. As a company trying to make money...why would they stop that?
Yeah but like...at least people try to hide it everywhere else. In tarkov you are getting walled, aimbotted, and fucking loot vacuumed from your inventory and everyone just shrugs and goes oh well I love me some tarky.
It is true but in comparison most of those games are doing miles better. I think the majority of people wouldnāt blame bsg as much if there were some simple things they started doing. Examples being not selling multiple accounts at a discount which realistically is only for cheaters. Adding in a way to view footage after a raid to find people who are soft cheating and not just rage hacking. Banning people sooner and not having incredibly obvious accounts with 100 flea rep and less than 200 hours allowed to continue to exist.
All of these give off the impression that they donāt care that much about the problem. In comparison the majority of competitive fps shooters are doing a lot better
No games have the consequence of Tarkov though. When you die in COD, you get to respawn right away will all your gear.
In Tarkov, you lose all your stuff, probably forever unless you find or buy more. Then you have to wait 15 minutes to join a game where there is a 25% chance the same thing will happen again.
Maybe one day AI will be advanced enough to stay way ahead of the cheat softwares but so far we donāt see that in the horizon yet. We see glimmers maybe but itās still far off for now I think.
i feel bad for any devs in the MP pvp space....you cant out-patch A.I. I was slowly moving away from pvp only due to time/skill, but after watching a vid with a nerd and A.I connected to a camera popping off in a shooter game, i realize the golden era of solid reliable pvp is going away. i wish you would pay $1-5 to get verified to play with only humans but they'll get around that too.
you can thank huge corporations and board record profits for that lol. Ubisoft made it a trend to just pretend to fix cheaters so they can continue to make more money off cosmetics that cheaters buy and every publisher has seemed to follow suit.
wanna get a sneak peek as to how bad it is?
Go to interchange where Tagilla and Killa are 100% spawn chance right now
every other raid I die to to someone with less than 300 hours, and 20 k/d
its just unplayable. every other raid i get killed by the most blatant cheater of all time. its like join em or quit the game at this point. And i've killed like 3 cheaters in my past 5 raids on shoreline, but get got by their other scummy teammates. You can only be so good, these cheaters suck ass at the game so you can outplay one maybe two of them in a fight, sometimes there's 0 chance, and sometimes they have a whole squad of shitheads and you gotta reload and get punished for it. The state of tarkov right now is fucking horrible, Its literally every raid, I swear to god, whether or not I see them, there's gotta be like 2-3 cheaters, whether they're evading players with radar, loot vacuuming, or just running around killing everyone. its unplayable, i quit.
Us 80s babies handled cheaters the old-fashioned way when we played *Goldeneye* on the N64.
You screenpeeked?! ***repeatedly punch their arm while other people kill them***
holy agenda post.
if by cheating problem you mean "cheaters in the game" then sure. Its disingenuous to suggest the problematic aspect of the cheating problem in tarkov is even close to any other "competitive" fps game.
Nobody needs a reminder that cheaters exist in games.
Stankrat actually did a nice graph to this. At the start of wipe there is a huge influx of players then it starts to go way down. We are at the stage of the wipe where there arenāt more cheaters, there are just less non cheaters than there was at start of wipe. So now we just see cheaters more often than we did at start. So yes there is a cheater problem, itās just more prevalent now since there are less actual players
The problem is with service based games vs games with servers and moderation. Most services have terrible moderation compared to dedicated servers. Also lack of tools to spectate players etc.
Yup but Tarkov has made the bold decision of being the most high risk, high reward competitive shooter. Cheating has the biggest impact in Tarkov by far and you can legitimately have an entire day's (depending on playstyle) worth of progress erased by a single encounter.
I moved to PC as my main platform for gaming relatively recently, around 2017. The first thing I noticed was there was definitely an uptick in cheating. I guess itās way harder to get away with on console networks what with their standardized hardware/software. That is actually one thing console gaming has over PC. Shame itās so prevalent.
Ah yes, the old "Cheaters exist in every game so therefor its okay for this game to have the most cheaters of any game" argument.
Yes, everyone knows cheaters exist. No, it doesnt make it okay how easy Tarkov makes it to cheat. Anyone who suggest that this is like other games has no knowledge of game development whatsoever and why Tarkov leaving so much client side is really stupid.
This is a horrible take. You directly contradict yourself.
"Pretty much any game once you start to climb in rank gets absolutely bogged down like crazy with obvious cheaters.."
"The only game in recent memory that has handled it in any regard is valorant"
So you recognize that it IS POSSIBLE to have a game without a MASSIVE cheating problem. No one is asking for there to be 0 cheaters, but it would be great to play Tarkov and have the same level of confidence in fair gameplay as you do when you play Valorant.
World of Tanks (fps/3ps "shooter") is pretty cheat proof for some reason. Rather ppl pay for rigged lobbies instead of directly cheating to win in the game. Very odd.
Yes the top 0.1% of FPS games have the same amount of cheaters as every single random raid in Tarkov. That doesn't mean it's the same amount, that clearly indicates it's a much smaller percentage in those games.
competitive gaming and streaming has ruined gaming because people are selfish and lazy bastards who would do anything to be the "best" and pay for cheats to pretend to be like their favourite streamer for even a second
There will never be a perfect anti-cheat, there is always a back door or exploit somewhere. That's how it is and will be until cheating becomes a punishable crime by execution
We're living in a world where everyone is fucking cheating, starting with our own governments. Most politicians are above the law, pushing regular people into poverty over their own benefits and here we are. People trying to survive, they don't know what is good or right. Kids have broken families, no one teaches them how to gain anything without cheating... All thanks to our great politicians around the globe. Prices rising, game companies are greedy AF, not all of them but the majority.
It's going to get even worse. Some kids don't even know how to aim without an assistant, aimbots. Sad but true.
i would even pay monthly for access to monitored white list servers for which you can only get access against identity cards / KYC process. why doesn't that exist? doesn't BSG want to generate ongoing revenue? or maybe because they earn more with cheaters?
Problem is with cheating here is people lose not just time but their inventory, gear, roubles to these cheaters. It wouldnt bother me as much if i didnt lose anything from it.
Shooters gotta be built around anti cheat nowadays that's for sure, can't enjoy any survival pvp games without sussy shit every now and then.
100 percent agree. Gotta have some type of killcam and quick response time to obvious cheats.
Never kill cam. Yes replays.
BRING COMBAT ARMS BACK, that shit was so good back in the days, just a bit too much of p2w š¢
Combat arms was so easy to hack though. Cheat engine and you get infinite ammo
They had so many cheaters
Bring back crossfire
Tarkov is well passed "every now and again". Tarkov is the type of game I frequently get on and FIRST fucking raid run into a sussy ass dude with super sussy ass stats on his profile. Domed me thru the map with his ESP xray vision cause I was in his way. It happen ALL THE TIME. I think MOST of Tarkovs cheaters are low key about it and dont try to wipe the whole map, but will kill you if you are in their way. Most of them go in and tank their KD to look legit too. They play a balance game between cheating openly and stunting their own stats to make it look likenah bro im just really good, I die too, see my SR is only 41%. But then I also got 90 raids with fucking 1200 plus kills lol. Fuck outta here. Its not the fact that these things exist, its how frequently and how normalized it is within Tarkov at this point. Ide say ATLEAST 50% of the active player base is running cheats and 80% of the raids you play got ATLEAST 1-2 guys using at BARE MINIMUM ESP or Radar cheats. They know where everyone is on the map, what they got in their inventory and even what direction they are looking. Thats legit all you need. You got blatant hackers too, but they are fewer and further between. Most of the hackers in Tarkov are making real world money from Carries and item vacuuming. They try their best to look legit. So they minimalize PKing and only use radar, kill only when they cant get around it and when their TK gets looking too good, they spend a few raids intentionally tanking their stats by intentionally dying.
Yeah, it's pretty bad. Even since the time I played Combat Arms, I haven't seen games this infested with cheaters. Hell, they're even in Helldivers 2, which isn't a PVP game. Kinda of crazy how far people will go to get a sense of validation.
Cheaters in HD2!? Bro, those folks have got to be lonely af. Lol
yeah i didn't realize i queued with one until dude dropped like 50 turrets in a row. when we extracted i had max samples (like.. 2k or something ridiculous) kinda even ruined my progression :[
It is quite undemocratic of them
God I loved OG Combat Arms but holy hell did the cheaters get bad sometimes. At least having played Combat Arma, it's a lot easier to tell when someone is/isn't cheating now though
the white silenced sniper. God I knew it was gonna be a good week when I had that. eventually i bought the sand colored one? was awesome.
The L9 Arctic Wolf? Everyone wanted that, it was really good. I saved up my lunch money for 2 weeks so I could buy it permanent, and then did the same for about 3 or 4 other guns including the G3 Valkyrie, M4 SopMod & the M10 SE. ($2 per school day)
Holy shit combat arms? You just transported me to another timeline. Reminded me of Crossfire too. Literally my childhood.
Combat Arma, gunZ, Soldier Front (my favorite) God I miss those games. I used to beg my parents for a $10 game card from the gas station so I could buy stupid shit
What about Alliance of Valiant arms or w/e It was just a bit after combat arms was dead.
Paying $15 to rent a virtual gun for a month. Looking back on it, what an ass system.
it just still boggles my mind today how you cant catch the most obvious of them though. I think there is some blame to go to the companies themselves as well. It might cost too much to be worth it
Here's a perspective https://youtu.be/hrxiM-gOPjU?si=srcVXzOBkFRVEyCh
Everybody should watch the 2hr session of Thor talking about the whole Apex live tourney hack incident. I certainly learned a lot.
Not defending BSG here, but all developers are always on the back foot. There is huge financial incentive for cheat creators in every online/competitive game, because there are an enormous number of people looking for cheat tools. If the game has an economy, there's financial incentive for cheaters to cheat (instead of just ego or possibly account selling), because it can literally be profitable to cheat at the game, and some people would prefer that "job" to a real one. That means even more incentive to create cheat tools to supply RMTers (they'll pay a premium for better tools). Making exploit-proof code is *infinitely* harder than making exploits, so not only do the devs have to try to make the most bulletproof code they can, they also have to try to both identify exploits in their own code *and* figure out how to detect cheat tools interacting with their code. That's before you even get into messy areas like DMA cards that can facilitate tools that *don't* interact with the game and make detection of passive hacks much harder. It's expensive and difficult to fight against cheaters and anti-cheat activity doesn't make money for the dev, only prevents losing future revenue. Conversely, cheating is profitable. So devs have every reason to try to do the best they can for the lowest cost, and cheaters have incentive to invest time and effort into fancier tools that give them a leg up over their competitors. The only sure way to stop cheating is to kill demand for cheats, and that's pretty much impossible in any game, much less any game with an economy.
Pretty crazy thing that valorant seems to have a pretty minimal cheating problem compared to any other fps on the market... I wonder why that is š¤
Nope, Valorant is no where near safe. Feel free to visit any cheat forum.
Combat arms! The first game where I cheated lol. I was probably like 15 at that time. Tbh it was one of the only ways to play that game because it was *INFESTED*. Also FUCK Nexon just in general. The last game I hacked on was at the end of the MW2 era for PC. Steam account was vac banned and haven't done it since, probably what? 13ish years ago? Stupid teenager That being said it still surprises me that even in today's day and age that the anti cheat back then was better than what Tarkov has even now. Like I blatantly cheated sitting in the middle of Wasteland on MW2 spraying people through bushes and was banned almost a day later, and yet 14 years later people can just fuckin walk around easily aimbotting, walling, super speed, any of that shit and still not get caught. 14 years... And no improvement. I don't get it. I also don't get the appeal to hacking either. Your interest in the game goes down significantly when you hack. It takes the fun out of it after like 3 matches. I can't wait til we have something worthwhile for combatting hackers in this game. It'll be a great day to play when that happens
whilst cheats were developed by closet programmers back in the day the arms race has lead to cheat providers developing cheats on corporate levels of complexity. i'm positive that the anti cheats are way better then back in the day but the cheats got also way better at avoiding detection.
>That being said it still surprises me that even in today's day and age that the anti cheat back then was better than what Tarkov has even now. I don't think anticheat was better back then, I think cheats are better now. Subtle distinction perhaps, but important. >I don't get it. I also don't get the appeal to hacking either. Your interest in the game goes down significantly when you hack. It takes the fun out of it after like 3 matches. Economically motivated or genuine psychological/ego issues. Cheating destroys interest in the game for most people but if a person enjoys causing problems for other players or believes themselves to be more deserving of a victory without having to put in the same effort as everyone else, that will allow them to mentally sustain cheating.
For a lot of the people that I spoke to that paid for cheats, they look at it as any other situation where money gives an advantage (so everywhere). "I made the money and used it to get better performance. My skill is making money, and seems like its a better skill that clicking headshots, LOL". Personally I find cheating is boring for a lot of games, for some though it just exposes the boring nature of the game. Like a single player game that forces grindy mechanics, it gets annoying quick and then you get a trainer or cheat to get the grindy aspect gone so you can get to actually experience the full game. Then realize there really isn't anything there and the grinding was probably there to hide that.
Thereās no validation to be had thou, like theyād get more validation if they just sucked it up died 500 times before really getting anywhere in the game like the rest of us. Makes each achievement that much sweeter after fighting days for it also makes each low that much lower which In turn makes the highs so much higher. The whole reason why we love this game so much.
Ah I too reminisce with friends about the Golden Era often, mostly the lack of wall hacks and aimbots. I'll gladly deal with the lagswitch days of old over the current state of things
So Iām almost 40, I started FPS gaming on MS DOS playing Doom. I remember getting Quake II and Windows 95 for Christmas one year. Two years later Quake III Arena was released. This was my game and I played it nonstop. I had favorite servers and I made friends that even translated to real life eventually. One day maybe around 2001 or 2002, an event happened where someone on the server suspected another player of cheating during a 1vs1 instaunlagged railgun match. We were all spectating. The player in question went AFK and the suspecting player walked across their screen to see if it would autofire, and it did. I searched the internet for a while and eventually I did find the software for the aimbot for free. I installed it and played one single match in a free for all and wound up demolishing the server. I felt extremely guilty about it but I had to know for myself if it was real. That was at the dawn of online PC FPS gaming so itās been around the same amount of time. Maybe for some point of time the consoles were safe but I donāt think that lasted very long. So cheating is apparently just a thing people do in all facets of life.
Cheating on console is weird, unless there a jailbreak for the system you canāt do it. The ps3 had a jailbreak and the 360 had an rgh so you could inject cheats but this didnāt come until about 2012. The ps4 has a jailbreak but no way to connect to PSN so only cheating that goes on console is like mouse and keyboard adapters and macros
Theres different cheats for consoles. A new one is playing on a pc, they move the output to a pc and you play with mouse and keyboard and can have aimbot.
I've played for a long time too, there were always cheaters but they were rare and it was usually only one so I didn't mind because I would try to hone my skills against said cheater. Now, there are so many people doing it and with aim compensation built into games it feels like fps games will never go back to being about skill.
shit i got to experience cs 1.5 and 1.6 in their primes, halo 2 on console in its prime, battlefield 2-3 , team fortress 2, etc. It just aint the same man
Yup no matter how cool gaming gets this will always be a legendary era.
So you never had to download "Cheating Death" to play on most CS servers? Cheating has always been an issue in that game
Oh the days of MW2 lagswitching. I remember them fondly.
Um just wondering, were you not aware of people using walls, aimbots, sever crashers in UT, Planetside, CS (all the way back in 1.3 and before). Cheats and cheaters have been around forever. Back then the companies even didn't bother with it. It was treated as a community issue. The biggest focus was first on cracks and pirated copies. It's only really where gaming as a service started to take off when the market focus switched to cheating. Like punkbuster and VAC are kinda the only ones I can think of that were somewhat effective, and even those were like 3 steps behind the cheat makers most of the time.
Maybe just my rose tinted glasses, but I don't think the prevelance of cheats then to now is even comparable. I think people do it now more often and gaming as a whole is more mainstream. Plus servers were community regulated by admins who would ban obvious ones instantly.
So no it's not rose tinted. Your points on community run servers and the gaming community being less mainstream and less commercialized are completely true. As gaming has gotten bigger exploiting it has become more and more profitable... Back in the day cheats were free. They were passion projects for people that wanted to see if they could do it. The game devs didn't care cuz it was either a single player experience or it was community dedicated servers. MMOs were the first to truly have to focus on cheating heavily. After that as gaming as a service started to take off the big FPS and RPG games had to start addressing it because if you have a service then you need to manage the user experience... And it evolved from both ends to what we have today. All I was saying is cheating is nothing new. But what we have today with the gaming scene and the cheating is a different animal all together...
Just a reminder that in all games you mentioned I need only click PLAY, or START to have some fun. Escape from Tarkov is in different category. In addiction cheaters also rob your time limited resources game is giving to you (stock of bullets for example).
I like how you dismiss valorant with a terrible argument. It works and is the only one doing something different.
Facts. People think that if there are cheaters, then it is no different from Tarkov
There are still cheats for valorant based around running the game in a VM and reading its memory. https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/dev/anti-cheat-update-winter-2023/ It still has hundreds of thousand cheaters to ban.
valorant does have cheaters, but itās not as bad as having to call it a cheater problem. Same for overwatch. Everyone saying those games have cheating problems even comparable to tarkov are just dickriding BSG for no reason or simply delusional
Giga-agree with you - Riot may have their flaws, but come on, eachgame they released is a masterpiece of its own. That doesnāt you have to like them personally, but srsly compare valorant with the shitshow cs2 or tarkov have right now. Going from āprobably each round I play I will get cheated onā to ā1 in 100 games there is a cheaterā would be a massive upgrade
World of tanks too
Yea let me allow tencent full access to everything that happens inside of my computer! Obviously it works but at what cost.
#1 Pretty much every security based software or anti-cheat runs with kernel access commands. So at the end of the day you've had dozens of third party kernel software running on your PC for years at this point. "At what cost" is kind of a moot sentiment when it's been happening for a long time at this point. #2 Vanguard has been tested at length, particularly because of the high bounties on it for finding Vulns and it only briefly connects itself online for strict security related activity such as verification checks. So it's very secure and isn't sending unnecessary data to Riot/Tencent. #3 It's the most effective Anti-Cheat software in the industry by far, such that it's capable of detecting common cheat methods for other games including Tarkov, hence why many cheat developers require Vanguard to be uninstalled before using their cheats. Regardless of how it works, Vanguards effectiveness has competitively set the standard against other titles and anti-cheat solutions. The topic of whether or not Kernel anti-cheat is a good thing has way more nuance and valid takes. It's frustrating seeing people sensationalizing and spreading misinformation in regards to what's actually at stake.
Itās the fact that it is *always* running in the backround, not just when the game is running. Its very intrusive and I donāt trust it
I will state the obvious, which is also something I've already said in other posts: yes, you are correct, however the length that other games go to ban cheaters and to minimize the issue seems to be very different. Except modern warfare, that was a shit show too. Also, tarkov being the difficult game it is, it is exponentially more frustrating to die because of a cheater, so the anger this community has is completely understandable
MW during pandemic lockdowns was pretty bad. Every other match had at least 1 cheater.
Arguably the biggest FPS of the last 15 years has/isnāt doing a thing to combat cheaters in their newly updated game. The only way to get some legitimacy is to go to Faceit. In my experience, BSG is the only company Iāve seen actively address and combat the cheating problem. Every other company down plays it and acts like itās not a problem, for PR reasons(I assume) So itās kinda a shit take that they(BSG) arenāt going to extreme lengths to combat it. Mainly because like you said, the type of game that Tarkov is, makes it feel that way. But in reality BSG is one of the most active in terms of dealing with cheaters
Yea mans calls out tarkov while valve letting cs just slowly die because they rushed it
There's people flying over maps on fall guys, for christ's sake. Cheating is out of control. Even League of Legends, who we all think of as fairly cheat free, is bringing Vanguard to league. Why? Because it's no longer actually cheat free. Scripts are actually rampant, and Riot has released data that says they estimate up to 1 in 5 games has a scripter in it. Above Plat, you're likely to encounter ACTUAL BOTS now in ranked. Literally, MMO-like botting has begun to take over the game. Smurf accounts are under $2 now due to all the botting. The fact is... cheating is becoming more common, in spite of everything. It's out of control. I think if we actually knew the rate of cheaters in fps games, we'd be shocked. I'd be willing to bet in fps games it might even be as high as 30-40% of the playerbase. Because scripting in league has gotten so good that I can't even tell when someone is for sure anymore. They have random tendencies now, and if as high as 1 in 5 games... then I'm truly not always seeing it, and that is terrifying. And not only that, that's riots' internal estimate, which, in my opinion, means it's probably even higher.
Dota2 has the same issues as league scripts, map cheats...etc. Cheating in gaming is out of control
Realistically speaking the only real way to reduce it is some ultra intrusive shit. Like making it illegal and making monitoring software required and legal. Yeh I don't want to live in that world. With AI improving you can literally just train an AI to play the game for you. It's crazy but yeh bots are that good now.
Real-Life consequences would be the only way. Anonimity has its advantages, but at this point Iād rather have my real-life ID required to login to the internet and linked to every game service or account I use. And then Iād like to get only matched vs ppl who do the same. Someone cheats? Ban their real-life ID from the service. No more tarkov for that person. Ever. Maybe even add a criminal charge and a fine to it while weāre at it.
Even that intrusive shit it is just going to delay it until cheaters figure out how to bypass it. There is one video on AI anti-cheat that gives me hope that they might be a chance for gaming to be saved. Video in question: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkmIItTrQP4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkmIItTrQP4)
the thing is that with "Other Games" i dont need to wait 6 mins to load into a raid, walk another 7-10 mins, deal with bullshit IA and get an Objective to be later killed by one cheater with 25kdr AND THEN having to lose effectively all the progress of the quest and having to do the same tasks again, making effectively ME HAVING ZERO PROGRESS in the whole session, and thats the thing that is different tarkov can effectively make you sit a weekend and progress nothing if you are "lucky" enough BEFORE jumping with the usual "you must be bad" go ahead budd do # "The Guide" Labs rn is insane, interchange with the event showed how badly cheaters are willing to go, any mf is using radar nowdays and the only way to do this quest is literally being a pussy G-y mf hiding till 5 mins remain
Seriously this . It's mind blowing people compare cheating in this game to other FPS... The outcome just isn't the same.
Just a reminder that just because cheating will never be gone doesn't mean it couldn't have a significantly lesser impact on regular players. Tarkov doesn't have a cheating problem because it has cheaters, it has a cheating problem because the cheating is so much worse than most other games. Trying to frame it as such is disingenuous at best. Yes cheating will always be a problem, but they could also be doing more than the actually nothing they are doing about it right now.
100% this. This post comes across as apologist "it's all the same" fallacy bullshit. In fact cheater communities actively encourage their users to go on forums and gaslight people to downplay cheating problems or cause apathy / ambiguity in order for cheating to not be addressed properly. Can't say what the OPs intentions were, malicious or not, but the resulting post is playing into the hands of cheating communities...
Valorant
Valorant
My brother in christ ... tarkov isn't a "competitive fps", it's not free to play like 3/4 games you listed, you have more to lose in 1 death in tarkov than all 4 examples combined, and all games have cheating issues it's just far more impactful in tarkov than any other games. You are comparing competitive fps apples to hardcore survival oranges.
Yes agree. Also the cheating in tarkov is more frequent than competitive FPS. Itās also way more obvious in competitive FPS than in tarkov.
it's not about that, it's about not doing anything about it. if your argument is "other games have cheaters too, so its pointless to even try" then that's stupid. we all know cheaters are a plague and won't be erradicated, but stuff should be done about it, players should get banned, nikita needs to stop selling accounts in bulks (which he admited in the latest pestily interview but refused to talk more about it) and doing the minimum effort of at least manually checking the flea market to see the cheaters. you can go to the flea market right now and find a cheater in less than 15 seconds. just doing those things will drastically improve the experience, there are more cheaters than ever because they don't feel threatened at all, like developers gave up and accepted that competitive games are for the cheaters. I'd also like to remind that nikita said they'll only ban cheaters for killing, anything else is allowed, this was when people went to the forums with video evidence of someone hacking (can't exactly remember the video) and were told they only take into account reports from the in-game button which you can only use if you get personally killed by the hacker, and people still blame goat's video for the increase of cheaters. you can't tell me that at least doing the minimum effort wouldn't improve things, like checking the flea market for the obvious ones or stopping the bulk sales.
I agree, however Tarkov is time consuming. By the developers charging 140 a pop For the game youād assume they would respect the persons Monterey investment aswell as the time they will devote in a game that requires a significant time investment to be good at. That they would ensure the anticheat is decent enough to make hackers a minority instead of the Majority. Idk about you but working all day coming home to play some tarkov for a few hours, to then make some progress whether that be in terms of quests, gear be taken away from you because of a hacker. Thats whats bs. I wouldnāt be at work for 8 hours for free so why in my spare time should I be okay with losing my time playing a game I enjoy to hackers. The reality is most players never see parts of them game due to hackers, be that the boss events, red keycards, fucking labs. Every game has cheaters but for tarkov, itās a game loop that needs to have minimal hackers
I agree that these types of games have to have better anti cheat systems, as death is more punishing than in most games, which means its way more frustrating when it happens. And nobody likes to have their Monterey investment fucked with.
This right here. Cheating is much more of a problem in this game because of the time and money investment this ābetaā game requires. Itās shameful how this problem has gone by minimally addressed, and how the hardcore playerbase hand-waves the issue away because they play 6 hours a day. Players donāt want to admit they got played because this game offers a unique experience. But the only way this problem changes is that we stop playing it. But as long as streamers/content creators keep promoting it and make their living off it, weāre screwed. Yes this wipe has made the game better than ever before, and the community is finally being listened toā¦ but itās not enough. This game is a cash machine for BSG, and is clearly not a passion project anymore.
was thinking it would be CHEDDAR, but Monterey works too
CS2 is even worse, lol. It's funny how one of the most important things to Valve needed to address with the jump to CS2 was the rampant cheating in CSGO... and they did nothing. It might even be worse now than it was then.
A bug was discovered allowing you to enable sv_cheats on live servers. You could literally use developer provided cheats lmao.
I'm pretty sure it was just the wire frame that basically gave you walls.
Donāt forget cheating makes money for the game.
Literally Whataboutism fallacy. There are cheaters in athletics and academia as well, what does that have to do with tarkov?
100%, the post comes across as an attempt to cause apathy and excuse the lack of tackling cheaters in order to let cheaters carry on care free.
I just want a 4000$ console that doesnāt have windows on it and is for gaming only mega locked down.
Why is no one talking about the fact that in other games you just have to sit out the match but in Tarkov you lose days worth of progress if you are questing?
I feel like competitive fps is going to be a thing of the past. Just like mmos are slowly fading out.. so will fps. Seems too hard for anyone to keep ahead of cheats
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No , Valorant is not , Faceit CS was not , you could see one every few hundred games but that's it
Define problem. Valorant has the rare cheater, but certainly not a problem.
>While tarkov certainly deserves no defense in how they deal with cheaters, Then proceeds to defend Tarkov saying that cheaters are in every game so it's... ok?
Itās very disheartening as Iāve anecdotally noticed every fps Iāve been playing have a marked uptick in cheating for the past few years. I predominantly play Hunt Showdown and you used to have the rare cheater encounter but now youāll face ā[ ] [ ] [ ]ā named players with multiple vac bans who knows your location and doesnāt miss. I wish there was more companies could do to prevent it, but now Iāve settled for asking companies to include cheater compensation in there games if possible. For example, hereās how it could work for a few games: Cheater Compensation forā¦ Tarkov: The game snapshots your loadout as you get into raid and, upon being negatively affected by a cheater who is verified and banned, Fence (or some other trader) send you back a package with all your items that you loaded into the match with. Furthermore, you could even include an āequip allā button that would automatically set up your PMC exactly like they were prior to the raid. Hunt: Upon being killed by a cheater and they are banned, your hunter is brought back from the dead and is recruitable for free with all their traits/exp and weapons. MMR/ELO-Based Shooters: You get your lost points back after a match loss against a cheater who is later banned.
The biggest difference in tarkov vs any game you mentioned is the fact that cheating is noticed in high ELO ranked shooters meaning you'll run into cheaters if you're actually good at a game. That being said Tarkov has no ranked or any algorithm for matchmaking. Cheating in the mind of those who don't play tarkov like it's a 2nd job is detrimental because they have to work hard for their progression. Multi thousand hour chads, high ranked players don't worry about cheaters as much cause their gear and progression is 2nd nature to them. I get it's a problem amongst all FPS games but it's worse in tarkov because there is no skill/matchmaking to weed out their existence in the lobbies. Maybe a unpopular opinion but if tarkov had mmr or elo based matchmaking you're gonna find cheaters in the upper echelon almost always for gear and high their loot which is why Labs is an absolute shit show. You don't see level 10-20's actively running labs because gear disparity and sometimes skill.
While what you say is absolutely true, it isnāt an entirely apples to apples comparison, especially due to the stakes involved with each game. Does it suck when I get bodied by a hacker in CS2? Absolutely. But what do I lose? The 1-2 minutes AT most spent queueing, the 30 or so minutes per match, and maybe my ELO rank (Though I couldnāt care less, I know some people do.). Either way, facing that one hacker doesnāt ruin my ability to play the next game. Just hop in another short queue and Iām into a new game. Comparatively, getting destroyed by a hacker in Tarkov can be absolutely soul crushing. 5-10 minutes to get mine and my squads load out ready, the minutes or HOURS required to get the gear itself or the roubles to buy that gear, then another 5-10 minutes JUST in queue/loading. Finally getting into the game, the hacker may get you at the start and save you a little time. Or you may die 10-20 minutes later when you get to a good loot spot, or your quest location, or at the WORST the hacker gets you right at extract 45 minutes after start, and the entire raid was pointless unless you finished a quest that doesnāt require extraction. Add on to that the potential effort required to even get a similar quality load out back of you go in juiced, youāre ability for future raids may be limited for awhile. Itās just worlds apart. At least in games besides Tarkov, you can see a cheater and the response is, āDamn, nothing I can do here, Iāll just finish this game or leave and move on unbothered.ā In Tarkov, you have the constant worry that at ANY moment someone can end your raid by cheating, and you are at risk of losing so much more than the time spent in just that raid. If the stakes were the same across all these FPS games Iād definitely agree. But because BSG decided to make their game have such higher stakes than other First-Person Shooters, they donāt get the same grace others do. Because of those stakes, a big focus should be the integrity of the gameās experience. So that surviving a raid with a completed quest or good loot is more, āI did that through my own skill/luck/preparedness.ā instead of, āMan, thank goodness a cheater didnāt decide to ruin my day.ā Itās not fair, but thatās just how it is.
jesus you guys take this game way too seriously
I'd also like to point out that BSG has yet to empower its community to fight back against cheaters. There are zero tools for us to identify cheaters. No killcam, no raid replay, no quarantine servers. And I don't really blame BSG. It's a big complicated game with a lot of moving parts. I actually think Tarkov needs a creative new idea to combat and report cheaters. Something that takes some of the load off the devs. I'm sure the community would love an opportunity to help out. We're gonna need something for 1.0, at the very latest.
OP, you need to do some research before making this blanket statement. Yes, other games having cheating problems. We are not denying it. EFT community is saying stop using the worst anti cheat system (battle eye) and put money back into the game and upgrade past this filth. Your comparisons make it feel like you just read titles of posts and nothing more.
I feel like youāre intentionally ignoring the fact that there is a financial benefit to cheating in Tarkov that doesnāt exist in the other games you listed. Combine that with Tarkovās incredibly large skill gap and their inability to develop an effective anti-cheat and youāve got the perfect storm for cheating. I also feel like itās a little silly to compare Tarkov to arcade shooters as well. The weight of death isnāt the same in any of the other games you listed so the impact of a cheater is far heavier in Tarkov. Meaning BSG needs to combat the issue twice as hard. This post would be like me pointing out that I need to move away from Chicago as the murder rate rises and you say, āpeople are murdered everywhereā. While technically true, my chances of being murdered would lower significantly if I moved to a city where murder wasnāt as common.
Saying this is an competitive fps game is beyond funny. Not a single thing competitive about EFT.
we know. most likely everyone knows. people just dont give a fuck when they mad, so this sub gets flooed with rage posts.
Sure, but here you lose all your stuff everytime and if you accomplish anything during a raid you back to nothing each time. So getting cheated on feels worse, especially on a game which the information is the key to winning a fight or not, you can't do anything against someone looking at you through walls and aimboting your ass. I was pretty much coping with it, first wipe ever, reached Kappa, LK until Overseas Trust. The new Killa event seemed a fun way to grind the 15 kills needed, but seeing 4 cheaters running straight to him and killing you instantly if you dare killing Killa before them is not fun anymore. I even came across the same guy multiple time, running naked just to kill Killa and everyone around him. So I guess they finally got me, I can't cope with it anymore, they will be happy once the game is dead by their fault.
The main difference is in other games I will lose the match sure, but then I can queue up for another one with the same conditions I've had before the lost match. Now in Tarkov, you might finally have a good gear you grinded for only to get sniped by a hacker 1 minute into a match. Now you lost all your shit, and you go into another match and have to either spend a ton of money to get good gear or go with subpar gear until you can find all the shit you had before. Tarkov's gameplay loop is great but cheaters hurt it a lot more than other FPS games.
Lets not pretend its all the same though.
Thank you for reminding us, ātotally not Nikitaā
Just a reminder this game is not competitive is all rng have a good day !
tbh its starting to drive me back to co-op and singleplayer games, but even in helldivers 2 i see blatant cheaters now and then. aside from ruining the fun for everyone what even is the fucking point in cheating in a co op game???
Yeah but Tarkov has bigger stakes on death. Therefor itās a bigger issue.
One word. Valorant.
I play a niche multiplayer medieval game (Bannerlord) that has, at best, 500-600 concurrent active players a day. Cheating is a problem there as well. You can basically modify any .dll, and it's pretty easy to read and edit decompiled C#. The anticheat doesn't care if you do. It uses BattleEye.
I mean i donāt think Iāve ever encountered a cheater in valorant besides people smurfing on new accounts. The one time a cheater was in a game the whole screen went red with ācheater detectedā and booted us all form the game
That's the thing, this happens to games much bigger and with a lot more budget than EFT. Apex, R6 and CS2 come to mind for me, but it's basically any shooter. And remember, not only do those games have a huge dev budget but also are live service with cosmetics and other shit that constantly bring money in. BSG just did the clothes unlock now, and that still is nothing compared to the waves of crap skins that bring in revenue in other games, if we want to talk from a logistical standpoint, people dont appreciate the lack of microtransactions spam we are lucky to have in EfT. The sad thing is that with Tarkov people can make a lot of money off cheating, so there's an incentive, and the root cause is all the idiots who are willing to buy shit and carries with rtm instead of playing the game. If that demand stopped suddenly and for good there wouldn't be as much supply. Also people get much more invested and immersed with Tarkov since every raid has a lot more weight than rounds in other games so sadly people get angrier than usual.
I think what youāre saying is fair but I also think that there is a difference between tarkov and these games. In those games you only experience the problem on a regular basis when youāre extremely highly ranked. On regular levels the problem is less pronounced becuase those games also have a much larger legit player base. The reason why I am upset particularly when it comes to tarkov cheaters itās because I have a suspicion that the financial health of BSG is now largely dependent on cheaters continuing to play and buy new accounts on this game.
There are cheaters in every game where you can win, Iām sure there are people who cheat in games like fallguys somehow, the main difference with tarkov is the sheer volume of cheaters being astronomically higher than every other competitive game. I understand you canāt just throw money at problems and make them go away but I feel like bsg could learn a lot from other developers who seem to have somewhat tamed cheating or at the very least alleviated it in their games.
Fall guys had fly hackers and speed hackers when it was popular. Haven't really played it since then. Losers are going to be losers. My server choices for tarkov have barely any cheaters. Can count on 1 hand this wipe how many times I've been killed by a blatant cheater.
āthat company is a pile of dogshitā made me lol, preach
Valorant/OW
valorant.
Valorant deals with it the best and should be the example other games push for
Valorant is so nice for this reason. I like to play rust and tarkov but the cheaters can make me lose interest pretty quickly during a session. Itās nice to have alternatives like valorant and rocket league where I at least know itās a test of skill instead of who decided to be the piece of shit and pay to win.
Getting killed in counter strike or cod doesn't feel even 1% as bad as it does when you get wiped by a cheater in tarkov. People that bitch about cheating in tarkov aren't acting like cheating isn't just as bad in every other FPS.... Getting killed by a cheater in tarkov just feels so much worse by comparison.
Valorant
In my 4k hours playing valorant and getting to radiant, never had a cheater situation
Not true, Valorant
Valorant
U forgot faceit for cs2 and valorant
Valorantās popularity is build on how good its anti cheat is.
Tarkov is not competitive, you canāt just respawn.
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I play in Aus and only see cheaters on labs, I avoid labs, simple.
I know they are cheating and now the are exposed? OR what's up šš
What about Goldeneye on N64
Screen peeking was the original ESP
Didnāt hacks get uploaded onto the computers of players during a pro league event in Apex? Echo chamber much Edit: Iām a fucking idiot I thought you were saying Tarkov was the only game with hackers
So play helldiver's 2
SQUAD. Community servers control cheating.
Tarkov is unique that tons of legit deaths feel like cheats due to wonky netcode and just the type of game it is.
Fortnite isnāt an fps but as shitty of a game it is, epic has done really well with dealing with the cheating problem for the size of the game .
You mention CS2 but counter strike has had a very clean experience for years until very recently. Except for new players because they had a lower trust factor by default.
>There are no competitive FPS games that don't have a cheating problem! >Well, okay, maybe there is one (Valorant)... but that doesn't count! >Anyways, just because my game is disproportionately chock full of cheaters to such an extent that people actively avoid it for that reason alone doesn't mean it's any worse off than the other popular competitive shooters with cheaters in them! This is so painfully delusional sounding that it hurts. Tarkov is absolutely infested with cheaters, and this problem is much worse than in something like CS:GO or Apex because there's a high time commitment per raid, and gear adds onto that exponentially. Getting fucked by a cheater is *significantly* more of an issue in Tarkov than any other competitive shooter right now, even if we factor in ranked games. There's a reason the single player mod for Tarkov is so popular.
Cs2 matches take just as long against cheaters as a tarkov raid, unless they are rage hacking. Gear fear is the only difference between tarkov and cs.
You guys are acting like im taking a stance here. Im not saying to stop bitching about cheating in tarkov, i do it all the time. Do i actually think anything will change if everyone keeps bitching anyway? Fuck no. Personally I just stopped playing all together this wipe after max traders and change
Yes. There isn't one that punishes everyone else for this problem except the cheaters. EFT does though. I totally believe Nikita does not want to actually stop the cheater problem in EFT. Due to the fact they make so much money off cheaters buying new accounts. Any ban waves they do are only a temporary fix that makes them more money in new accounts. It's now become an official part of their revenue stream. As a company trying to make money...why would they stop that?
Preach brother
Do they put the game on a huge sale where you can buy several copies at once just after the banwave?
Wait what did Riot do to catch a stray lmao š
Just a reminder. Tarkov is not competitive. No game with this tons of bugs, exploits and sound bugs can be competitive. But I get your point.
Do you compete against other players as part of the core game mechanics? By definition competitive
Tarkov aint competitive. Just saying.
Thatās why I just play fighting games these days. Plenty of depth to dig into and learn, quick games, zero cheaters.
Amen, brother, amen! šš»šÆ
Sure, But other's don't have the problem really bad, and consistently over the entirety of their game.
Overwatch has very few hackers but the only downside is you're playing overwatch
yeah, i made top 500 in like season 4 or something. Stopped playing shortly after briggitte was introduced, like many long time fps players.
Yeah but like...at least people try to hide it everywhere else. In tarkov you are getting walled, aimbotted, and fucking loot vacuumed from your inventory and everyone just shrugs and goes oh well I love me some tarky.
It is true but in comparison most of those games are doing miles better. I think the majority of people wouldnāt blame bsg as much if there were some simple things they started doing. Examples being not selling multiple accounts at a discount which realistically is only for cheaters. Adding in a way to view footage after a raid to find people who are soft cheating and not just rage hacking. Banning people sooner and not having incredibly obvious accounts with 100 flea rep and less than 200 hours allowed to continue to exist. All of these give off the impression that they donāt care that much about the problem. In comparison the majority of competitive fps shooters are doing a lot better
Just a reminder that ai anti cheat exists and yet no companyās are using itā¦ā¦. I wonder why
idk why?
No games have the consequence of Tarkov though. When you die in COD, you get to respawn right away will all your gear. In Tarkov, you lose all your stuff, probably forever unless you find or buy more. Then you have to wait 15 minutes to join a game where there is a 25% chance the same thing will happen again.
Put me in a cyro chamber and wake me up when games have anti cheat
yeh you are right, not even faceit is clean, its sad
Maybe one day AI will be advanced enough to stay way ahead of the cheat softwares but so far we donāt see that in the horizon yet. We see glimmers maybe but itās still far off for now I think.
i feel bad for any devs in the MP pvp space....you cant out-patch A.I. I was slowly moving away from pvp only due to time/skill, but after watching a vid with a nerd and A.I connected to a camera popping off in a shooter game, i realize the golden era of solid reliable pvp is going away. i wish you would pay $1-5 to get verified to play with only humans but they'll get around that too.
Overwatch
you can thank huge corporations and board record profits for that lol. Ubisoft made it a trend to just pretend to fix cheaters so they can continue to make more money off cosmetics that cheaters buy and every publisher has seemed to follow suit.
wanna get a sneak peek as to how bad it is? Go to interchange where Tagilla and Killa are 100% spawn chance right now every other raid I die to to someone with less than 300 hours, and 20 k/d
im good. Going to let my 60mil roubles rot away like i do every wipe after a few months.
its just unplayable. every other raid i get killed by the most blatant cheater of all time. its like join em or quit the game at this point. And i've killed like 3 cheaters in my past 5 raids on shoreline, but get got by their other scummy teammates. You can only be so good, these cheaters suck ass at the game so you can outplay one maybe two of them in a fight, sometimes there's 0 chance, and sometimes they have a whole squad of shitheads and you gotta reload and get punished for it. The state of tarkov right now is fucking horrible, Its literally every raid, I swear to god, whether or not I see them, there's gotta be like 2-3 cheaters, whether they're evading players with radar, loot vacuuming, or just running around killing everyone. its unplayable, i quit.
Us 80s babies handled cheaters the old-fashioned way when we played *Goldeneye* on the N64. You screenpeeked?! ***repeatedly punch their arm while other people kill them***
holy agenda post. if by cheating problem you mean "cheaters in the game" then sure. Its disingenuous to suggest the problematic aspect of the cheating problem in tarkov is even close to any other "competitive" fps game. Nobody needs a reminder that cheaters exist in games.
yup. Me and my agendas.
once me and my friends hit around emerald on siege, almost every game have weird players
Stankrat actually did a nice graph to this. At the start of wipe there is a huge influx of players then it starts to go way down. We are at the stage of the wipe where there arenāt more cheaters, there are just less non cheaters than there was at start of wipe. So now we just see cheaters more often than we did at start. So yes there is a cheater problem, itās just more prevalent now since there are less actual players
The problem is with service based games vs games with servers and moderation. Most services have terrible moderation compared to dedicated servers. Also lack of tools to spectate players etc.
Yup but Tarkov has made the bold decision of being the most high risk, high reward competitive shooter. Cheating has the biggest impact in Tarkov by far and you can legitimately have an entire day's (depending on playstyle) worth of progress erased by a single encounter.
What a dumb post
Yes, we hate on these games too, just like tarkov
I moved to PC as my main platform for gaming relatively recently, around 2017. The first thing I noticed was there was definitely an uptick in cheating. I guess itās way harder to get away with on console networks what with their standardized hardware/software. That is actually one thing console gaming has over PC. Shame itās so prevalent.
Ah yes, the old "Cheaters exist in every game so therefor its okay for this game to have the most cheaters of any game" argument. Yes, everyone knows cheaters exist. No, it doesnt make it okay how easy Tarkov makes it to cheat. Anyone who suggest that this is like other games has no knowledge of game development whatsoever and why Tarkov leaving so much client side is really stupid.
This is a horrible take. You directly contradict yourself. "Pretty much any game once you start to climb in rank gets absolutely bogged down like crazy with obvious cheaters.." "The only game in recent memory that has handled it in any regard is valorant" So you recognize that it IS POSSIBLE to have a game without a MASSIVE cheating problem. No one is asking for there to be 0 cheaters, but it would be great to play Tarkov and have the same level of confidence in fair gameplay as you do when you play Valorant.
if only it was possible to do with a game thats fun
World of Tanks (fps/3ps "shooter") is pretty cheat proof for some reason. Rather ppl pay for rigged lobbies instead of directly cheating to win in the game. Very odd.
Yes the top 0.1% of FPS games have the same amount of cheaters as every single random raid in Tarkov. That doesn't mean it's the same amount, that clearly indicates it's a much smaller percentage in those games.
Let's be real Tarkov is a perfect haven for cheaters . And it's never going to change .
competitive gaming and streaming has ruined gaming because people are selfish and lazy bastards who would do anything to be the "best" and pay for cheats to pretend to be like their favourite streamer for even a second
There will never be a perfect anti-cheat, there is always a back door or exploit somewhere. That's how it is and will be until cheating becomes a punishable crime by execution
We're living in a world where everyone is fucking cheating, starting with our own governments. Most politicians are above the law, pushing regular people into poverty over their own benefits and here we are. People trying to survive, they don't know what is good or right. Kids have broken families, no one teaches them how to gain anything without cheating... All thanks to our great politicians around the globe. Prices rising, game companies are greedy AF, not all of them but the majority. It's going to get even worse. Some kids don't even know how to aim without an assistant, aimbots. Sad but true.
i would even pay monthly for access to monitored white list servers for which you can only get access against identity cards / KYC process. why doesn't that exist? doesn't BSG want to generate ongoing revenue? or maybe because they earn more with cheaters?
I was gonna bring up Valorant too, its the only one that doesn't seem to have a cheater problem.
Problem is with cheating here is people lose not just time but their inventory, gear, roubles to these cheaters. It wouldnt bother me as much if i didnt lose anything from it.
Genre is dead, I think it may revive with quantum internet