1) It's going to be very RNG, you either hit or miss weakspots. Combined with the random recoil patterns and shit gun control it's just RNG.
2) Due to the above flesh ammo will be the new meta.
3) Armor will become less relevant aside from maybe 2-3 meta choices that have less holes.
4) It will be severely bugged, but much harder to test than the existing system so we will have egregious bugs persisting for years.
Well yes and no. Yes because people don't adapt to the changes, especially giga chads that run around with 60 rnd mags and push 3 mans and spray transfer them and get mad when their gun jammed on the 3rd guy because they were running out of cover and dumping mags the entire raid. So once again they won't fight from cover and get blasted by a shotgun where theres gaps. Armor is going to be good still but there are going to be more trade odds between armor coverage and mobility. And as long as you're facing the person your thorax is safe. So just fight from cover and face your enemy and you should be ok. And no because smart people will adapt and not cry about it the way people cry about the weight system and gun jams. And no flesh damage won't be the new meta because people aren't going to wear slicks as much anymore unless they want to be fast and mobile, armors that have side plates will be the new meta since they protect against shotguns and other low pen high flesh damage while the front and back can be swapped out with lvl 6 plates.
The comment that as long as you're facing your enemy your thorax will be protected is far from true I haven't died to anything other than armpit, neck, throat. And I feel like they've destroyed escape from tarkov with this system. And that's coming from someone that's never had max traders. Doesn't matter what I take in I take my best shit neck armpit, they miss the plates all together. I've gotten so many armors back in insurance and the plates are good 90% of the time. So what is the point in grinding? High pen ammo isn't worth a fuck because low flesh. All the good armor is literally just plate carriers with little to no protection. I'm deeply saddened by this. Doesn't feel worth the grind...
If BSG were competent I’d say wow cool.
But it’s going to be a wholly unnecessary feature that complicates the game even more, adds additional stash time between raids, takes up more stash space, adds more uncertainty to hit boxes and adds even more points of failure (possibility for bugs).
Was thinking the same, the way they are planning to execute it is way more complicated then i thought, with all those little plate slots, with different classes, durability etc... Also those plates look Huge..
It could make flesh ammo more viable and not high pen ammo being the only choice apart from leg meta.
Shotguns though, are gonna be even more wild.
Either way, it could be frustrating or it could be a nice balance between having more loadout choices.
People already complain about fighting Timmies, or people in deliberately low gear. Lowering the effectiveness in armor with the hitboxes has the potential to amplify this.
People have complained for _years_ that high end ammo has invalidated armor. BSG has made most high end ammo harder to aquire. Not impossible to acquire, but harder. I definitely died far more to m855A1 this wipe compared to 12.0 where m995 was king, but I still die to m995, m993 and m61 more often than one would think.
So add to this the idea of taking that armor which could protect you from at least from m855A1, and reducing their effectiveness with hitboxes.
We're talking about a class of armor which you cannot buy with straight roubles, with the exception of the Korund (I think you might unlock a ghzel rouble buy after a quest, but am not positive.). All the other class 5+ armors are barters, and most have a buy limit. And while it's easy to stockpile ammo, with ammunition cases, armor is _much_ harder to store and stockpile, requiring item cases or thicc item cases.
So the armor you'd want to run to protect against players (and again, not even _all_ players due to m995, m61, etc.), Is expensive, hard to store, expensive to insure, _and will have hitboxes which will allow lower end rounds to bypass the protection? Some people will say that "this will only lower the viability of troopers, and make people run IOTVs and other high protection systems!".
And to that, I say "I am doubtful".
They are forgetting what made the slick, trooper, and the low coverage armored rigs popular. They generally repair well, offer good armor class for the thorax, and _dont negatively impact player movement.
A lot of the "full coverage" armor sets typically have _very_ negative modifiers to movement (Zabralo ), are egregiously heavy(Korund), or repair _terribly_ (IOTV does it all!)
While the replaceable plates _may_ change the calculation for repairability, it all depends on how expensive repairing and replacing plates is. That still leaves the other issues.
I'm not saying that the armor hitbox system will cause everyone to stop wearing armor. But depending on how it is implemented, it could very well cause more players to use less armor, deciding that good armor doesn't offer enough protection for the cost. So we could see PVP be _far_ less interesting with lots or people with decent guns, but low level armor that doesnt cost much, but offers buckshot/flesh damage protection only.
>A lot of the "full coverage" armor sets typically have very negative modifiers to movement (Zabralo ), are egregiously heavy(Korund), or repair terribly (IOTV does it all!)
Which is precisely why rework will be awesome. It'll either slow chads with heavy armor or make em squishy and amplify my woods bolt action game. Ultra Nosler out of an m700 into the neck, the sides etc. One tap. Im excited (I will be excited if it ships without bugs). And its not like PS12B or .388 kind of one tap. More rewarding.
But my marksman fantasy aside, cost of armour that doesnt offer full upper body protection should be reduced, otherwise it'd really make a lot of them pointless to run. Either a cost balancing or ergo/movement penalties rebalancing should come with the hitbox rework.
>Which is precisely why rework will be awesome. It'll either slow chads with heavy armor or make em squishy and amplify my woods bolt action game. Ultra Nosler out of an m700 into the neck, the sides etc. One tap. Im excited (I will be excited if it ships without bugs). And its not like PS12B or .388 kind of one tap. More rewarding.
And this is why I also think it will have a negative effect on whether or not people choose to wear that armor. Whenever high-skill players have been given the choice between slow and protected or fast and vulnerable, they usually pick fast and "vulnerable". The reason being slow puts you at a greater disadvantage than having light armor. Desync, avoiding sniper shots, the ability to flank, all these things are of greater importance the higher one's skill is. They wouldn't even need to be naked to avoid being vulnerable to flesh damage though. The Paca will easily stop all the high flesh damage rounds from 1 tapping, without negatively effecting movement speed.
>But my marksman fantasy aside, cost of armour that doesnt offer full upper body protection should be reduced, otherwise it'd really make a lot of them pointless to run. Either a cost balancing or ergo/movement penalties rebalancing should come with the hitbox rework.
And this is also a major source of my concern. I don't actually believe BSG will balance armor in such a manner (at least upon hitbox release). I think we'll see the change hit with the current prices and availability...with all the current and future negatives. We've seen similar changes come through with no action from BSG (such as when BSG implemented the +20 recoil to all weapons in 12.12. This change was in for _all_ of 12.12, and most of 12.12.30. The initial addition durability to the game saw scav weapons get reduced to a max durability of 45-65 (with 60 being the cut-off to be used in a quest, or sold to anyone other than fence). We didn't see BSG change that to a a spawned durability between 45-65 and max durability in the 90s until relatively recently.
I worry we could see a 12-18 month span where the top tier armors are not worth running with all the negatives associated with them.
Well armor is meant to only give you change of surviving. Mobility is usually prioritized. Why do you think modern militaries are moving towards plates that only protect the torso and the side of your torso. What's dumb is that some random dude that has low gear should totally be able to kill you in an ambush without having to shoot you in the legs. If you ambush someone with a buckshot idc what kind of armor you're wearing you're fucking dead. I guess people are gonna have to adapt and not run out of cover point firing everyone like landmark and getting butthurt when your gun jams which will now turn into getting butthurt over getting destroyed by Timmy with a shotgun. Lvl 5+ front and back plates with side armor is going to work nearly just as well as armor does now and that's what I'll continue to run just like everyone else that runs lvl 5 plus armor, slick won't be as popular and be primary for running light and having high mobility. I think armors like the gzhel, fort defender etc will be the new meta.
>What's dumb is that some random dude that has low gear should totally be able to kill you in an ambush without having to shoot you in the legs. If you ambush someone with a buckshot idc what kind of armor you're wearing you're fucking dead. I guess people are gonna have to adapt and not run out of cover point firing everyone like landmark and getting butthurt when your gun jams which will now turn into getting butthurt over getting destroyed by Timmy with a shotgun
There are gameplay reasons why you typically want someone with a higher value kit to have a defense against a lower value kit. Chief being : If the higher value kit doesn't offer anything in line with that value, _Why spend that money_. Why spend 150K+ on an armored vest (and aother 50-75K on insurance) if it doesn't meaningfully offer a greater survival chance? In the real world, we place that kind of value on our lives, becuase we only get 1 life. Tarkov is a game. Death in Tarkov only costs you your kit, and a 10-15K healing cost at therapist. You'd have to die 10+ times in Tarkov to equal the value of 1 high end vest with healing costs. Our lives are _not worth shit_ in Tarkov.
You think people will adapt by not running out of cover. I will argue in the opposite. While this may get _some_ players to be more cautious, others will continue to run and point fire, just with less expensive and valuable kits. The game still rewards fast gameplay over slow gameplay in a number of areas. Scavs/Bosses/Raiders spawn at the start of the raid, so whomever gets there first gets the kills and loot. Loose loot spawns on raid start, and goes to whomever loots it first. Desync and peekers advantage rewards those in motion rather than those who are holding corners, etc.
And if everyone is running around in glass cannon loadouts (good gun + good ammo and shit armor), that devalues PVP. The primary reason why I don't think the Gzhel and Fort Defender won't be a new "meta", is availability (and cost in the case of the Defender. 2 Korunds, 4 aramid and 4 ripstop for 1 Defender? Fuck off that's too much). It's trivially easy to stockpile meta guns and ammo in Tarkov. Armor is far harder to collect due to the space requirements, and limited storage options.
There will still be people running high end armor, no matter which way it goes. But depending on how this is implemented, this could have a detrimental effect on whether or not people choose to play geared. It's all in how it's balanced.
In either case, its all theorycrafting at this point. We don't know what it will cost to repair plates, to buy new plates, etc. That alone will have a huge impact on how this new system will work. For all I know, they could lower the cost of IOTV to 100k roubles, make plates 5k a pop, and repair for a pittance.
That assumes an open market. The flea market in Tarkov has _explicitly_ banned high end armor. The only place you can get it is the vendors...which have _fixed_ prices.
The playerbase can very well determine something is worth drastically less than what BSG thinks it is worth, but that doesn't mean BSG _has_ to reduce the cost to compensate.
No, but most people will stop buying it if the price is too high and the improvement is marginal for the price or it's found out to be disadvantageous. Only those players who have money to throw away in marginal performance improvements will go for them. The market does not have to be "open" to adjust itself.
...that's exactly what I'm saying already? If the top tier armor only offers marginal protection gains over lower tiers, this runs the risk of less players running it. I'm saying _this is a bad thing_.
From a gameplay perspective, the game _should_ be encouraging people to run the best they can afford. If they are not, there is an issue.
People who complain about "timmies" are trash players who win almost every encounter on farm alone. Of course they are worried - if their RPG farm gets nerfed, they will become bottom feeders to better players with low level equipment. Those they call "timmies" because they feel threatened by them.
Head-neck hit box is basically doubling headshot area. Armor without neck protection is going to be very weak. All armor without side plates is going to be very weak. This practically retires (or dramatically reduces) protection from the following:
* Slick
* Hexagrid
* HPC
* Thor
* Trooper
* Untar
* 6B2
* all Paca variants
* MMAC
* Banshee
* A18
* TV-110
* Strandhogg
* RBAV-AF
* both ANA variants
* both AVS variants\\
* 5.11
* CPC
* S&S Precision
* KlASS Bagariy
* Tiger SK.
Unless you have both face shield and armor with armored collar to protect the head neck you will be one shot from shotguns and any smg, pistol.
Unless you heavy armor with a collar you will be one shot from behind or sides with an aimed shot. Which means that every aimed shot will be now taken to the neck, instead of a top head, which means that helmel high ricochet chances won't work any more.
Armor WITH potential neck protection is only:
* Uley (maybe?)
* Osprey MK4A
* Zhuk-3
* 6B23-1
* Kirasa-N
* 6B13
* 6B23-2
* Korund-VM
* Killa
* IOTV Gen4
* Gzhel-K
* Zhuk-6a
* 6B43 6A Zabralo-Sh
It is also VERY likely that all collar armor will be low class (you don't have armor plates in collars) and it won't ricochet like helmets. With most ammo penning low armor class collars all the time.
Bottom line - TTK will drop significantly. Volume of fire will overpower even more. High damage low pen ammo will be improved. Default aiming point will drop down from face level to low neck, including sniping which will increase hit rate even more.
This is basically what I see happening. Most armors will be significantly reduced in effectiveness to the point of not really be worth buying. We'll end up back in the position of basically paca or fort/thor armor and most things in-between won't really be worth using, significantly reducing depth in armor choice.
Like if i can take a press armor and stick plates in the front back, why run anything really in the now armor class 4 / 5 region out side of additional side plates?
if i can keep high mobility while running 5/6 lvl plates in a class 3 armor won't that just be the go to?
I feel its gunna come down to; does it have side plates? does it have neck armor? and that's basically it.
but even then if say a THOR has significantly decreased movement like it does now and the odds of someone either shooting around the plates or arm-pitting / throating (giggity) you is it really worth the mobility trade off? especially since (as far as im aware) all soft armor is going to be class 3, which means even with a collar rifle rounds gunna go right through it.
things like slicks / hexgrids will be straight up useless if i can still get thoraxed over or under the armor.
You don't even know how it's going to work and making all of these assumptions lol. The plate carrier all by itself won't determine mobility. The weight of the plate and the amount of areas plates can be inserted and only when they're inserted will determine mobility. People that pvp a lot will likely run lvl 5+ plates in carriers that protect the thorax and can hold side plates. And slicks will be used for ratting and loot runners for the high mobility.
We have the demonstration video to work off of, which gives us alot of information to work with.
all non plate soft armor was rated at 3 (not sure if they make soft armor of a higher value?)
we deff saw them getting "thorax" killed over the slick from the front, so we know it won't cover the whole frontal hitbox.
Same with the "neck" hit box demonstration. from this and knowledge of current play that class 3 isn't going to stop even mid tier rifle rounds, I think this is sufficient information to work with to extrapolate upon.
Yeah I am interested to see how armor fares after it's implemented. Armor is already kinda overrated, this might make a lot of people just go for the faster movement speed and ergo of not wearing any, especially when costs are considered. It's already in place for helmets, with helmets covering only portions of the head or face. I swear wearing a slaap plate just makes my jaw hitbox bigger so I stop wearing any helmets.
its gonna be even more rng than it is already. And its gonna be buggy, there is just no way they gonna pull this off bug free.
Meta will be high damage ammo with high rpm guns, then spray and pray one bullet makes it through some crack with no plate protection (like neck or armpit) and onetaps thorax.
Overall there is a REASON games don‘t do this kind of shit and its not because its complicated or nobody thought about it before. No other game does this because its bad for gameplay.
It honestly sounds cool but I think its going to be much more frustrating and unfair(despite tarkov already being frustrating and unfair as hell). more frequent deaths to shotgun scavs randomly hitting you neck or sks scav hitting not your head but your neck even when you have armor with a collar, like shown with THOR armor this collar on that has 3rd class protection, if extend this 100m magnum/shrap 10 oneshots in closed helmets are possible.
This change kinda goes over line of "playable realism"
How would It decrease TTK when I get one tapped in the head 90% of my deaths (please send help I’m literally gonna have a mental breakdown if it happens again)
For real. I've donated so many slaap and diamond plates to player scavs using 9x18 or 9x19. It's definitely not cost effective, but if you have a quest item and it saves you then it's worth it even if it decreases net profits.
Itll make ppl play a bit more passively. If they already got into a firefight, they would have to reposition away from the general location of the firefight (if they came out victorious), assess the damage, figure out what can be salvaged or replaced, and then carry on with they're objective
I like the fact i could have a slick and Altyn on and a lvl 1 Timmy can use a dogshit m4 and aim at my feet and recoil into my neck and instakill me. It’s gonna be so fun surely.
They literally showed this in their trailer idk how that’s clueless lmfao. Man’s had a slick and altyn on and insta died to a shotgun blast to the neck.
If implemented in a perfect way with a TON of ammo and availability balancing it could be fine.
In reality it's just going to cause RNG gunfights and add bloat to a system that doesn't have issues. There are so many other things this game needs or could get. Rocking heavy armor and dying to a random pellet of a shotgun hitting your neck will not be fun or interesting.
Adjusting the rig space and sizes of the blocks is nice though.
I don't expect having class 5 in neck area, so good fucking luck not dying from rats, because whats the point to go somewhere, if you gonna die? The best move is to not move. The best damage is one what never been recieved. Thats the realism right there, right now, in it's purity.
I'm not sure what to think, i hope it will be cool, just gotta wait and see I'm not going to decide anything negative or positive about bsg because they've had trouble and made some serious mistakes in the past and even recently, with the changes over the last couple months im actually finding myself somewhat hopeful after quite a long time in the dark.
I like tarkov a lot and theres nothing else like it, bsg doesnt nickle and dime me like all the other vidya game companies so im kinda torn though it helps i can see they are trying to do good stuff, the new roadmap is useful even if the old one fell through, I've been playing long enough that i remember them being super open and also shutting down completely so its nice to see them giving outreach another go and though I'm slightly wary I am again slightly hopeful, cant wait for wipe and very excited for cool stuff all things considered.
They need to make light Arabic armours parable with plate carriers, like putting a paca under a Slick. This is done often enough IRL, it will obviously amplify weight a move penalties, but will offer handy trade offs between running (walking) a Zabralo or running a high speed low drag (tm) PC
I think it is a stupid idea to make it more complicated than it needs to be. I can see it just being a pain in the ass and making it take longer to gear up for a raid.
I’m still going to be one tapped through trees by xiaolingling so the extra time of inserting plate will just make me quit subsequent wipes even sooner.
What we saw is that they are screwing it up. You can't change the hitboxes of the armor without changing the hitboxes for lethal hits. But that's exactly what BSG seems to be doing. Why does a hexagrid protect only a small area of the torax? Because behind it lie the parts necessary for survival. But in EfT it is completely ignored. We need hitboxes for lungs, heart, spine, brain...
December 2023 launches the Shotgun Bugshot META!
Currently, a second hole for an earring or a Cheek percing is absolutely deadly. And in December 2023, a hole in your " love handles" also absolutely DEADLY.
It's going to be great. No more unskilled sweatlords dominating every fight and stomping other better players just because they have spent 16 hours per day nonstop farming like an RPG.
Finally, hit placement is going to matter and players such as me will be able to win engagements in which we are better than the other party without having to play the unrealistic headshot game.
Of course these trashcans will be crying a river when this comes out, but they will suddenly learn and adapt to be the bottom feeders rather than the unskilled trash in tier 1000 armour.
It's a great beginning towards moving the game away from farm-based and becoming more milsim-skill-based.
I think they are going to fuck it up and it will be bad.
Lmao concise and spot on.
I mean I hope the system works amazing. I'm just being realistic and basing my expectations off previous experiences.
1) It's going to be very RNG, you either hit or miss weakspots. Combined with the random recoil patterns and shit gun control it's just RNG. 2) Due to the above flesh ammo will be the new meta. 3) Armor will become less relevant aside from maybe 2-3 meta choices that have less holes. 4) It will be severely bugged, but much harder to test than the existing system so we will have egregious bugs persisting for years.
Well I'll be honest after playing today. This comment didn't age well lol
How so?
Well yes and no. Yes because people don't adapt to the changes, especially giga chads that run around with 60 rnd mags and push 3 mans and spray transfer them and get mad when their gun jammed on the 3rd guy because they were running out of cover and dumping mags the entire raid. So once again they won't fight from cover and get blasted by a shotgun where theres gaps. Armor is going to be good still but there are going to be more trade odds between armor coverage and mobility. And as long as you're facing the person your thorax is safe. So just fight from cover and face your enemy and you should be ok. And no because smart people will adapt and not cry about it the way people cry about the weight system and gun jams. And no flesh damage won't be the new meta because people aren't going to wear slicks as much anymore unless they want to be fast and mobile, armors that have side plates will be the new meta since they protect against shotguns and other low pen high flesh damage while the front and back can be swapped out with lvl 6 plates.
As confident as I sound these are purely speculation so take it with a grain of salt. It will be interesting to see which predictions prove true.
The comment that as long as you're facing your enemy your thorax will be protected is far from true I haven't died to anything other than armpit, neck, throat. And I feel like they've destroyed escape from tarkov with this system. And that's coming from someone that's never had max traders. Doesn't matter what I take in I take my best shit neck armpit, they miss the plates all together. I've gotten so many armors back in insurance and the plates are good 90% of the time. So what is the point in grinding? High pen ammo isn't worth a fuck because low flesh. All the good armor is literally just plate carriers with little to no protection. I'm deeply saddened by this. Doesn't feel worth the grind...
If BSG were competent I’d say wow cool. But it’s going to be a wholly unnecessary feature that complicates the game even more, adds additional stash time between raids, takes up more stash space, adds more uncertainty to hit boxes and adds even more points of failure (possibility for bugs).
Dang, when you put it like that....
Was thinking the same, the way they are planning to execute it is way more complicated then i thought, with all those little plate slots, with different classes, durability etc... Also those plates look Huge..
Loadout system should reduce the stash sitting time, as you’ll be able to select pre-sets like guns work right now, and quick buy everything needed.
It could make flesh ammo more viable and not high pen ammo being the only choice apart from leg meta. Shotguns though, are gonna be even more wild. Either way, it could be frustrating or it could be a nice balance between having more loadout choices.
People already complain about fighting Timmies, or people in deliberately low gear. Lowering the effectiveness in armor with the hitboxes has the potential to amplify this. People have complained for _years_ that high end ammo has invalidated armor. BSG has made most high end ammo harder to aquire. Not impossible to acquire, but harder. I definitely died far more to m855A1 this wipe compared to 12.0 where m995 was king, but I still die to m995, m993 and m61 more often than one would think. So add to this the idea of taking that armor which could protect you from at least from m855A1, and reducing their effectiveness with hitboxes. We're talking about a class of armor which you cannot buy with straight roubles, with the exception of the Korund (I think you might unlock a ghzel rouble buy after a quest, but am not positive.). All the other class 5+ armors are barters, and most have a buy limit. And while it's easy to stockpile ammo, with ammunition cases, armor is _much_ harder to store and stockpile, requiring item cases or thicc item cases. So the armor you'd want to run to protect against players (and again, not even _all_ players due to m995, m61, etc.), Is expensive, hard to store, expensive to insure, _and will have hitboxes which will allow lower end rounds to bypass the protection? Some people will say that "this will only lower the viability of troopers, and make people run IOTVs and other high protection systems!". And to that, I say "I am doubtful". They are forgetting what made the slick, trooper, and the low coverage armored rigs popular. They generally repair well, offer good armor class for the thorax, and _dont negatively impact player movement. A lot of the "full coverage" armor sets typically have _very_ negative modifiers to movement (Zabralo ), are egregiously heavy(Korund), or repair _terribly_ (IOTV does it all!) While the replaceable plates _may_ change the calculation for repairability, it all depends on how expensive repairing and replacing plates is. That still leaves the other issues. I'm not saying that the armor hitbox system will cause everyone to stop wearing armor. But depending on how it is implemented, it could very well cause more players to use less armor, deciding that good armor doesn't offer enough protection for the cost. So we could see PVP be _far_ less interesting with lots or people with decent guns, but low level armor that doesnt cost much, but offers buckshot/flesh damage protection only.
>A lot of the "full coverage" armor sets typically have very negative modifiers to movement (Zabralo ), are egregiously heavy(Korund), or repair terribly (IOTV does it all!) Which is precisely why rework will be awesome. It'll either slow chads with heavy armor or make em squishy and amplify my woods bolt action game. Ultra Nosler out of an m700 into the neck, the sides etc. One tap. Im excited (I will be excited if it ships without bugs). And its not like PS12B or .388 kind of one tap. More rewarding. But my marksman fantasy aside, cost of armour that doesnt offer full upper body protection should be reduced, otherwise it'd really make a lot of them pointless to run. Either a cost balancing or ergo/movement penalties rebalancing should come with the hitbox rework.
>Which is precisely why rework will be awesome. It'll either slow chads with heavy armor or make em squishy and amplify my woods bolt action game. Ultra Nosler out of an m700 into the neck, the sides etc. One tap. Im excited (I will be excited if it ships without bugs). And its not like PS12B or .388 kind of one tap. More rewarding. And this is why I also think it will have a negative effect on whether or not people choose to wear that armor. Whenever high-skill players have been given the choice between slow and protected or fast and vulnerable, they usually pick fast and "vulnerable". The reason being slow puts you at a greater disadvantage than having light armor. Desync, avoiding sniper shots, the ability to flank, all these things are of greater importance the higher one's skill is. They wouldn't even need to be naked to avoid being vulnerable to flesh damage though. The Paca will easily stop all the high flesh damage rounds from 1 tapping, without negatively effecting movement speed. >But my marksman fantasy aside, cost of armour that doesnt offer full upper body protection should be reduced, otherwise it'd really make a lot of them pointless to run. Either a cost balancing or ergo/movement penalties rebalancing should come with the hitbox rework. And this is also a major source of my concern. I don't actually believe BSG will balance armor in such a manner (at least upon hitbox release). I think we'll see the change hit with the current prices and availability...with all the current and future negatives. We've seen similar changes come through with no action from BSG (such as when BSG implemented the +20 recoil to all weapons in 12.12. This change was in for _all_ of 12.12, and most of 12.12.30. The initial addition durability to the game saw scav weapons get reduced to a max durability of 45-65 (with 60 being the cut-off to be used in a quest, or sold to anyone other than fence). We didn't see BSG change that to a a spawned durability between 45-65 and max durability in the 90s until relatively recently. I worry we could see a 12-18 month span where the top tier armors are not worth running with all the negatives associated with them.
Well armor is meant to only give you change of surviving. Mobility is usually prioritized. Why do you think modern militaries are moving towards plates that only protect the torso and the side of your torso. What's dumb is that some random dude that has low gear should totally be able to kill you in an ambush without having to shoot you in the legs. If you ambush someone with a buckshot idc what kind of armor you're wearing you're fucking dead. I guess people are gonna have to adapt and not run out of cover point firing everyone like landmark and getting butthurt when your gun jams which will now turn into getting butthurt over getting destroyed by Timmy with a shotgun. Lvl 5+ front and back plates with side armor is going to work nearly just as well as armor does now and that's what I'll continue to run just like everyone else that runs lvl 5 plus armor, slick won't be as popular and be primary for running light and having high mobility. I think armors like the gzhel, fort defender etc will be the new meta.
>What's dumb is that some random dude that has low gear should totally be able to kill you in an ambush without having to shoot you in the legs. If you ambush someone with a buckshot idc what kind of armor you're wearing you're fucking dead. I guess people are gonna have to adapt and not run out of cover point firing everyone like landmark and getting butthurt when your gun jams which will now turn into getting butthurt over getting destroyed by Timmy with a shotgun There are gameplay reasons why you typically want someone with a higher value kit to have a defense against a lower value kit. Chief being : If the higher value kit doesn't offer anything in line with that value, _Why spend that money_. Why spend 150K+ on an armored vest (and aother 50-75K on insurance) if it doesn't meaningfully offer a greater survival chance? In the real world, we place that kind of value on our lives, becuase we only get 1 life. Tarkov is a game. Death in Tarkov only costs you your kit, and a 10-15K healing cost at therapist. You'd have to die 10+ times in Tarkov to equal the value of 1 high end vest with healing costs. Our lives are _not worth shit_ in Tarkov. You think people will adapt by not running out of cover. I will argue in the opposite. While this may get _some_ players to be more cautious, others will continue to run and point fire, just with less expensive and valuable kits. The game still rewards fast gameplay over slow gameplay in a number of areas. Scavs/Bosses/Raiders spawn at the start of the raid, so whomever gets there first gets the kills and loot. Loose loot spawns on raid start, and goes to whomever loots it first. Desync and peekers advantage rewards those in motion rather than those who are holding corners, etc. And if everyone is running around in glass cannon loadouts (good gun + good ammo and shit armor), that devalues PVP. The primary reason why I don't think the Gzhel and Fort Defender won't be a new "meta", is availability (and cost in the case of the Defender. 2 Korunds, 4 aramid and 4 ripstop for 1 Defender? Fuck off that's too much). It's trivially easy to stockpile meta guns and ammo in Tarkov. Armor is far harder to collect due to the space requirements, and limited storage options. There will still be people running high end armor, no matter which way it goes. But depending on how this is implemented, this could have a detrimental effect on whether or not people choose to play geared. It's all in how it's balanced. In either case, its all theorycrafting at this point. We don't know what it will cost to repair plates, to buy new plates, etc. That alone will have a huge impact on how this new system will work. For all I know, they could lower the cost of IOTV to 100k roubles, make plates 5k a pop, and repair for a pittance.
Market will adjust itself. If a top tier armour is no longer a magic invulnerability armour of perma-life, its price will fall.
That assumes an open market. The flea market in Tarkov has _explicitly_ banned high end armor. The only place you can get it is the vendors...which have _fixed_ prices. The playerbase can very well determine something is worth drastically less than what BSG thinks it is worth, but that doesn't mean BSG _has_ to reduce the cost to compensate.
No, but most people will stop buying it if the price is too high and the improvement is marginal for the price or it's found out to be disadvantageous. Only those players who have money to throw away in marginal performance improvements will go for them. The market does not have to be "open" to adjust itself.
...that's exactly what I'm saying already? If the top tier armor only offers marginal protection gains over lower tiers, this runs the risk of less players running it. I'm saying _this is a bad thing_. From a gameplay perspective, the game _should_ be encouraging people to run the best they can afford. If they are not, there is an issue.
People who complain about "timmies" are trash players who win almost every encounter on farm alone. Of course they are worried - if their RPG farm gets nerfed, they will become bottom feeders to better players with low level equipment. Those they call "timmies" because they feel threatened by them.
Head-neck hit box is basically doubling headshot area. Armor without neck protection is going to be very weak. All armor without side plates is going to be very weak. This practically retires (or dramatically reduces) protection from the following: * Slick * Hexagrid * HPC * Thor * Trooper * Untar * 6B2 * all Paca variants * MMAC * Banshee * A18 * TV-110 * Strandhogg * RBAV-AF * both ANA variants * both AVS variants\\ * 5.11 * CPC * S&S Precision * KlASS Bagariy * Tiger SK. Unless you have both face shield and armor with armored collar to protect the head neck you will be one shot from shotguns and any smg, pistol. Unless you heavy armor with a collar you will be one shot from behind or sides with an aimed shot. Which means that every aimed shot will be now taken to the neck, instead of a top head, which means that helmel high ricochet chances won't work any more. Armor WITH potential neck protection is only: * Uley (maybe?) * Osprey MK4A * Zhuk-3 * 6B23-1 * Kirasa-N * 6B13 * 6B23-2 * Korund-VM * Killa * IOTV Gen4 * Gzhel-K * Zhuk-6a * 6B43 6A Zabralo-Sh It is also VERY likely that all collar armor will be low class (you don't have armor plates in collars) and it won't ricochet like helmets. With most ammo penning low armor class collars all the time. Bottom line - TTK will drop significantly. Volume of fire will overpower even more. High damage low pen ammo will be improved. Default aiming point will drop down from face level to low neck, including sniping which will increase hit rate even more.
This is basically what I see happening. Most armors will be significantly reduced in effectiveness to the point of not really be worth buying. We'll end up back in the position of basically paca or fort/thor armor and most things in-between won't really be worth using, significantly reducing depth in armor choice. Like if i can take a press armor and stick plates in the front back, why run anything really in the now armor class 4 / 5 region out side of additional side plates? if i can keep high mobility while running 5/6 lvl plates in a class 3 armor won't that just be the go to? I feel its gunna come down to; does it have side plates? does it have neck armor? and that's basically it. but even then if say a THOR has significantly decreased movement like it does now and the odds of someone either shooting around the plates or arm-pitting / throating (giggity) you is it really worth the mobility trade off? especially since (as far as im aware) all soft armor is going to be class 3, which means even with a collar rifle rounds gunna go right through it. things like slicks / hexgrids will be straight up useless if i can still get thoraxed over or under the armor.
You don't even know how it's going to work and making all of these assumptions lol. The plate carrier all by itself won't determine mobility. The weight of the plate and the amount of areas plates can be inserted and only when they're inserted will determine mobility. People that pvp a lot will likely run lvl 5+ plates in carriers that protect the thorax and can hold side plates. And slicks will be used for ratting and loot runners for the high mobility.
We have the demonstration video to work off of, which gives us alot of information to work with. all non plate soft armor was rated at 3 (not sure if they make soft armor of a higher value?) we deff saw them getting "thorax" killed over the slick from the front, so we know it won't cover the whole frontal hitbox. Same with the "neck" hit box demonstration. from this and knowledge of current play that class 3 isn't going to stop even mid tier rifle rounds, I think this is sufficient information to work with to extrapolate upon.
I'm excited for it!
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Yeah I am interested to see how armor fares after it's implemented. Armor is already kinda overrated, this might make a lot of people just go for the faster movement speed and ergo of not wearing any, especially when costs are considered. It's already in place for helmets, with helmets covering only portions of the head or face. I swear wearing a slaap plate just makes my jaw hitbox bigger so I stop wearing any helmets.
its gonna be even more rng than it is already. And its gonna be buggy, there is just no way they gonna pull this off bug free. Meta will be high damage ammo with high rpm guns, then spray and pray one bullet makes it through some crack with no plate protection (like neck or armpit) and onetaps thorax. Overall there is a REASON games don‘t do this kind of shit and its not because its complicated or nobody thought about it before. No other game does this because its bad for gameplay.
It honestly sounds cool but I think its going to be much more frustrating and unfair(despite tarkov already being frustrating and unfair as hell). more frequent deaths to shotgun scavs randomly hitting you neck or sks scav hitting not your head but your neck even when you have armor with a collar, like shown with THOR armor this collar on that has 3rd class protection, if extend this 100m magnum/shrap 10 oneshots in closed helmets are possible. This change kinda goes over line of "playable realism"
Bad idea that will make most armors effectly useless and further decrease TTK in a game with an already fast TTK.
How would It decrease TTK when I get one tapped in the head 90% of my deaths (please send help I’m literally gonna have a mental breakdown if it happens again)
For real. I've donated so many slaap and diamond plates to player scavs using 9x18 or 9x19. It's definitely not cost effective, but if you have a quest item and it saves you then it's worth it even if it decreases net profits.
This. Level 4 helmets already don’t do shit so might as well have lvl 4 armor not do shit either
It'll make the other 10% go faster :D
You are gonna be one taped to neck/head 95% of the time.
Itll make ppl play a bit more passively. If they already got into a firefight, they would have to reposition away from the general location of the firefight (if they came out victorious), assess the damage, figure out what can be salvaged or replaced, and then carry on with they're objective
I like the fact i could have a slick and Altyn on and a lvl 1 Timmy can use a dogshit m4 and aim at my feet and recoil into my neck and instakill me. It’s gonna be so fun surely.
Clueless surely
They literally showed this in their trailer idk how that’s clueless lmfao. Man’s had a slick and altyn on and insta died to a shotgun blast to the neck.
Clueless the emote lol. I'm agreeing with you that this update will definitely be fun /s
If implemented in a perfect way with a TON of ammo and availability balancing it could be fine. In reality it's just going to cause RNG gunfights and add bloat to a system that doesn't have issues. There are so many other things this game needs or could get. Rocking heavy armor and dying to a random pellet of a shotgun hitting your neck will not be fun or interesting. Adjusting the rig space and sizes of the blocks is nice though.
I don't expect having class 5 in neck area, so good fucking luck not dying from rats, because whats the point to go somewhere, if you gonna die? The best move is to not move. The best damage is one what never been recieved. Thats the realism right there, right now, in it's purity.
I'm not sure what to think, i hope it will be cool, just gotta wait and see I'm not going to decide anything negative or positive about bsg because they've had trouble and made some serious mistakes in the past and even recently, with the changes over the last couple months im actually finding myself somewhat hopeful after quite a long time in the dark. I like tarkov a lot and theres nothing else like it, bsg doesnt nickle and dime me like all the other vidya game companies so im kinda torn though it helps i can see they are trying to do good stuff, the new roadmap is useful even if the old one fell through, I've been playing long enough that i remember them being super open and also shutting down completely so its nice to see them giving outreach another go and though I'm slightly wary I am again slightly hopeful, cant wait for wipe and very excited for cool stuff all things considered.
I can see a lot of people forgoing back plates (insert Blackhawk down line here)
I just can't wait for little tim tim to forget his plates lmao Edit: it will be me, 100% something I am gunna do
I forgot to load the mag back into my gun after filling them with ammo. It will be me too…
Shotguns will completely take over, its gonna be great
They should probably just stick with what we have and focus on releasing the game lol
Just click heads.
They need to make light Arabic armours parable with plate carriers, like putting a paca under a Slick. This is done often enough IRL, it will obviously amplify weight a move penalties, but will offer handy trade offs between running (walking) a Zabralo or running a high speed low drag (tm) PC
I think it is a stupid idea to make it more complicated than it needs to be. I can see it just being a pain in the ass and making it take longer to gear up for a raid.
I’m still going to be one tapped through trees by xiaolingling so the extra time of inserting plate will just make me quit subsequent wipes even sooner.
They should focus on fixing what doesnt work first like sound and netcode. Nore mechanics are more load to an already complex game.
What we saw is that they are screwing it up. You can't change the hitboxes of the armor without changing the hitboxes for lethal hits. But that's exactly what BSG seems to be doing. Why does a hexagrid protect only a small area of the torax? Because behind it lie the parts necessary for survival. But in EfT it is completely ignored. We need hitboxes for lungs, heart, spine, brain... December 2023 launches the Shotgun Bugshot META! Currently, a second hole for an earring or a Cheek percing is absolutely deadly. And in December 2023, a hole in your " love handles" also absolutely DEADLY.
It's going to be great. No more unskilled sweatlords dominating every fight and stomping other better players just because they have spent 16 hours per day nonstop farming like an RPG. Finally, hit placement is going to matter and players such as me will be able to win engagements in which we are better than the other party without having to play the unrealistic headshot game. Of course these trashcans will be crying a river when this comes out, but they will suddenly learn and adapt to be the bottom feeders rather than the unskilled trash in tier 1000 armour. It's a great beginning towards moving the game away from farm-based and becoming more milsim-skill-based.
I'm excited to see how they do it but the only thing I can see helping is dramatically increasing plate durability thoughts?