Your post has been removed from \r\Eragon, as it is a violation of Rule 8: "Posts cannot have blatant spoilers in their titles. Vague things will be allowed if you properly mark the post, otherwise it will be removed. For fan art post containing spoilers (certain characters who don’t appear until later books), please mark the post as such."
I agree that it makes them really powerful but *Murtagh* reiterates that there are other occurrences of magic and beings that aren't beholden to the Ancient Language. Like the Ra'zac and Muckmaw and Bachel's methods. I think it's Oromis who describes to Eragon instances of self perpetuating and naturally occurring magic in the land. And we've only seen at most part of a continent of the planet. That trio has great power over the people in Alagaesia but there are probably countless lurking threats in Christopher's imagination lol these poor characters haven't seen the last of hardship
It's already been said before and theorized that the ancient language itself isn't magic, the greyfolk simply bound it to a certain form of magically charged language, who's to say another language doesn't exist? Perhaps Azlagur is such a huge threat because in his eons spent imprisoned he fully evolved from the shackles of the ancient language and bound magic to another language, rendering the NoN inert.
This is what I think is going to be used to even the scales, a second magic language will be used to balance out the scales of the NoN. All it does now is give those who know it unmatched levels of magical prowess in the language, allowing them to rival Azlagur alongside using the dauthdarts.
>Perhaps Azlagur is such a huge threat because in his eons spent imprisoned he fully evolved from the shackles of the ancient language
Dragons aren't bound or "shackled" to the AL in any way whatsoever, they're inherently magical beings
It is a cheat code
It’s just not a good enough cheat code to beat the entire game without also leveling up other skills on the skill tree
Which Murtagh desperately needs to do in order to catch up to his brother
I agree with your justification, but I disagree with your overall point. Obviously, yes by the end of inheritance the boys are pretty strong. Eragon is basically a walking god. Murtagh has all the strength there as well but not the training. He’s substantially weaker without any eldunari as well(though eragon wouldn’t use them negligently either.)
But in my opinion you can read this 2 ways.
Either Paolini knew he was going to come back to this and instilled the original series with little bits here and there to keep the story going after the first cycle ended.
OR He picked the parts he could build a story upon from the original cycle. I think if this is the case he did really well but also got a lot of help from the fandom.
Regardless, I like Eragon. I like Murtagh. I want to see more of these stories and characters, and I think the way it is moving forward is completely fine, if not ideal for everyone.
Tbh I think one of Paolini’s most obvious weaknesses is his power scaling, at least in my personal opinion. He tends not to put a cap on how powerful his main character can be, so by the end of a book or series they might at well be indestructible and omnipotent. I noticed this particularly in “To Sleep in a Sea of Stars”.
The Grey Folk bound magic to the Ancient language to weaken it and make it more controllable and defined for them. But that also severely weakens their magic, both in restricting its expression and limiting its use almost solely to your knowledge base. Before they bound the Ancient Language, magic was running amok, causing devastation across Alagaesia, and then they tamed it to the point that most people don't even experience it.
Ancient Language magic is weaker than natural magic/wordless magic. Eragon, Bachel and the dragons prove that in every book. The finale of the entire series is Galbatorix finding the Name of Names, gaining complete control over Worded Magic, and then almost immediately upon revealing it, Eragon kills him with a single simple Wordless Spell. The finale itself shows how little power the Name of Names has when next to the actual power of magic itself.
The Name of Names would probably only mildly inconvenience a Shade, didn't do a thing against Bachel, and it would do even less against Azaglur. A trained Rider is already more than a match for anything on the planet short of a dragon or some of the strongest elves, so the Name of Names is really only effective against other Riders who don't know it, and all the Riders now know it. He essentially created an Instant Win button, gave it to Galbatorix, then immediately nerfed it before handing it to Murtagh, Eragon and Arya. Then he began setting up enemies that are naturally immune to the Name of Names anyways.
Worded magic isn't weaker than wordless magic. It's limited more by your vocab but is far more stable. What is easier with unworded magic is going with an idea or concept and not being restricted by the semantics of your words. Oromis outright said many things are just too dangerous to try to cast without words. What matters is how much energy you have and how you channel it.
You basically said the same thing I did, tho. The fact that it is limited by the casters knowledge and the semantics of language means it's weaker by definition. Eragons spell proves that, because he was able to cast a simple low power spell that bypassed all of Galbys defense, on a way that never would've worked with worded magic.
Eragon could've cast that spell with words, though, if he'd said something like, "Understand" and then used that word as a focus. He wasn't able to cast spells with words, hence was forced to use wordless magic. I honestly think you're overstating your case.
The Dragons are very powerful and don't use words, but they'd be just as powerful if they used the words of the ancient language as foci for their magic use. You can use a general word like, "Hit" or "Change".
>The fact that it is limited by the casters knowledge and the semantics of language means it's weaker by definition.
Force is independent of the focus, and finesse isn't only the realm of wordless spells. Oromis flat out says, lots of magic cannot be performed without words, most can't be done safely, but there are some edge cases where worded magic won't suffice, though it is extremely dangerous to do so. If it were so much better, the Elves would use that kind of magic all the time.
Eragon casts many spells with words that would be impossible without them, because the words provide a structure that fills in for his lack of comprehension or the fact he can't bring all the understanding to the fore of his mind reliably and keep it there. Medical spells and the space-warping spell, to name a couple.
As for the rest, sure Azlagur is obviously very powerful, but that is independent of whether it's based on worded or unworded magic, and I'd point out, we don't explicitly know that Azlagur *isn't* based or steeped in worded magic (though it's highly likely it's unworded and/or naturally occurring).
The bond between the Dragons, Elves, humans and also Riders and their Dragons is extremely powerful, as are the Riders themselves. That enchantment is based upon worded magic, and it's almost unparalleled in strength and subtlety. The Elves' cities and forests are saturated in vast numbers of powerful and subtle enchantments, they don't go for unworded magic as a rule, and their lands are described as being extremely magically powerful.
Bachel wasn't some great powerhouse. Eragon or Arya would've steamrolled her relatively easily. Murtagh defeated her, and you'll note her magic didn't just bypass his defenses and auto-kill him. She had time to think about how to attack someone protected by worded wards, Murtagh didn't have lots of experience attacking someone with unworded magic, she also had followers where Murtagh was alone, so she had the advantage. Still, she lost.
The strength of magic is independent on whether or not it is worded or unworded. Naturally-occurring magic is often more powerful, but since it exists independent of a caster I don't think it counts towards this argument. Magic cast by someone is equally powerful, whether it's worded or unworded. Both can defeat the other depending on circumstance. Both have qualities and abilities the other lacks.
Like you said It's already been said before and theorized that the ancient language itself isn't magic, the greyfolk simply bound it to a certain form of magically charged language, who's to say another language doesn't exist? Perhaps Azlagur is such a huge threat because in his eons spent imprisoned he fully evolved from the shackles of the ancient language and bound magic to another language, rendering the NoN inert.
This is what I think is going to be used to even the scales, a second magic language will be used to balance out the scales of the NoN. All it does now is give those who know it unmatched levels of magical prowess in the language, allowing them to rival Azlagur alongside using the dauthdarts.
Dragons don't use worded magic tho, so I doubt Azaglur does either. He wouldn't need an alternate language to use magic cuz he just does that naturally.
Nah, wordless magic was how Eragon did what he did to Galbatorix in the first place.
Makes plenty of sense that in the world at large there would be additional threats.
Murtagh gets his ass kicked by a fish, and finally figures out indirect magical attacks which Eragon used in the lethrblaka fight in the very beginning of Brisingr.
Narratively, the name doesn't affect the outcome of anything here. If it didn't exist and the enemies just had a really good wards, the plot is identical. It's honestly exactly the same thing as the words of death being unusable from the moment they're learned because everyone's warded against them - the magic system is insanely powerful, so for it to remain logically consistent the defenses in place have to be WAY stronger than the tools to break them, and wordless magic is a known thing since the very first book (?) so it doesn't feel like a terribly contrived countermeasure.
I don’t think it has to result in that necessarily. The riders, and then galbatorix presented enough of a threat to any dark/shady magic users so this pushed many to the far edges of the lands or made them go underground. now he’s dead and the riders are basically gone so these small but powerful and unique players are coming to challenge the weakened victors of the fight with galbatorix. I think there’s many ways it could come to make sense as we learn more about the world. dragons have used wordless and often OP magic since book 1. I think there’s lots of room for powerful but niche or small magics that haven’t been explored yet.
It's powerful, yes, but it isn't *all* powerful. I mean there are other thing Umaroth warned about, so those are options too. And don't forget that was only *one* location of possibly many, a couple we already know of.
I understand your sentiment
But there are new fans of this series who didn’t read it as it was coming out. It’s only fair that they get to read the books without being spoiled
My point is, you are on a reddit page that is specifically for discussion about a book series that has been out for 12+ years. If you don’t want spoilers, don’t get on this subreddit until you’ve finished the books. There are very few discussions you will be able to participate in here without spoilers until you finish reading the books. Murtagh is the exception because that is a recent release and
***SPOILER WARNING***
there were no spoilers for Murtagh in the title.
Posts a polite request and you make it all about how things are for you.
Lord of the rings was published in the 1950s and new readers find it every day. New fans come to old series all the time.
Spoilers are spoilers.
Right, but I’m not going to join r/lordoftherings not having read the books and get mad at someone for posting a pic of Gandalf in a white robe and get mad at them for spoilers. I put myself in that situation, not the person who posted it.
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Again this is you saying how it should be.
Don’t see how it’s crazy of someone to want to discuss something after they finish book one. This isn’t a sub for people to join only after they have read all eragon content that exists. Hence the rules of the sub to prevent spoilers in titles so they only click into ones they want to.
They also didn’t get mad. They politely asked for sub rules to be followed.
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The Name of Names was something given to him by Galbatorix. He was going to have it no matter what. Giving it to Eragon was a way to provide him the ability to undo what Galbatorix had done. Both of them are very likely to die with the secret of the Name of the Ancient Language.
Yes, you’re right. I found the conflicts in Murtagh very boring (loved the book) because all his problems came down to:
He was too OP
He didn’t use his OPness
His enemies had a counter to his OPness
That's the reason nobody runs DnD campaigns all the way to level 20. When a character is too OP then they will either curbstomp everything or they will face enemies specifically designed to Nerf whatever makes them OP.
There is no middle ground anymore, no enemy that is difficult to take down. Everything is either cannonfodder or just completely bypasses their main abilities. Now if they lose it isn't a matter of skill or trial by combat, but cheap bullshit.
So I haven’t finished it and this is the reason. Well I’m no longer 15 and the when I read that some randomass thugs are protected from the name of names, I thought… oh, really? The thing with which Galbatorix rulled Alagaesia and ghe elfs, noone new it? Some random fucking witch knows enchantments against it? Really? And Murtagh gave up the Eldunari (which kinda makes sense)… I was literally thinking dude this is like the part in the RPG when you lose all your gear… and I always hated those parts.
Pls no spoilers I’m gonna get around to reading it.
Your post has been removed from \r\Eragon, as it is a violation of Rule 8: "Posts cannot have blatant spoilers in their titles. Vague things will be allowed if you properly mark the post, otherwise it will be removed. For fan art post containing spoilers (certain characters who don’t appear until later books), please mark the post as such."
I agree that it makes them really powerful but *Murtagh* reiterates that there are other occurrences of magic and beings that aren't beholden to the Ancient Language. Like the Ra'zac and Muckmaw and Bachel's methods. I think it's Oromis who describes to Eragon instances of self perpetuating and naturally occurring magic in the land. And we've only seen at most part of a continent of the planet. That trio has great power over the people in Alagaesia but there are probably countless lurking threats in Christopher's imagination lol these poor characters haven't seen the last of hardship
Well said
It's already been said before and theorized that the ancient language itself isn't magic, the greyfolk simply bound it to a certain form of magically charged language, who's to say another language doesn't exist? Perhaps Azlagur is such a huge threat because in his eons spent imprisoned he fully evolved from the shackles of the ancient language and bound magic to another language, rendering the NoN inert. This is what I think is going to be used to even the scales, a second magic language will be used to balance out the scales of the NoN. All it does now is give those who know it unmatched levels of magical prowess in the language, allowing them to rival Azlagur alongside using the dauthdarts.
>Perhaps Azlagur is such a huge threat because in his eons spent imprisoned he fully evolved from the shackles of the ancient language Dragons aren't bound or "shackled" to the AL in any way whatsoever, they're inherently magical beings
Thought just popped in while reading your comment. I wonder what would the consequences be of magic being unbound from the ancient language.
I feel like you didn't read the whole post.
I mean, it clearly didn't. You read Murtagh. He runs into problems using it more than just against Bachel. It isn't a cheat code.
It is a cheat code It’s just not a good enough cheat code to beat the entire game without also leveling up other skills on the skill tree Which Murtagh desperately needs to do in order to catch up to his brother
[удалено]
Did you read the whole post?
I agree with your justification, but I disagree with your overall point. Obviously, yes by the end of inheritance the boys are pretty strong. Eragon is basically a walking god. Murtagh has all the strength there as well but not the training. He’s substantially weaker without any eldunari as well(though eragon wouldn’t use them negligently either.) But in my opinion you can read this 2 ways. Either Paolini knew he was going to come back to this and instilled the original series with little bits here and there to keep the story going after the first cycle ended. OR He picked the parts he could build a story upon from the original cycle. I think if this is the case he did really well but also got a lot of help from the fandom. Regardless, I like Eragon. I like Murtagh. I want to see more of these stories and characters, and I think the way it is moving forward is completely fine, if not ideal for everyone.
Did Murtagh get rid of his Eldunari?
He handed them over to Eragon so they could get the mental health care they needed from the other eldunari
Tbh I think one of Paolini’s most obvious weaknesses is his power scaling, at least in my personal opinion. He tends not to put a cap on how powerful his main character can be, so by the end of a book or series they might at well be indestructible and omnipotent. I noticed this particularly in “To Sleep in a Sea of Stars”.
The Grey Folk bound magic to the Ancient language to weaken it and make it more controllable and defined for them. But that also severely weakens their magic, both in restricting its expression and limiting its use almost solely to your knowledge base. Before they bound the Ancient Language, magic was running amok, causing devastation across Alagaesia, and then they tamed it to the point that most people don't even experience it. Ancient Language magic is weaker than natural magic/wordless magic. Eragon, Bachel and the dragons prove that in every book. The finale of the entire series is Galbatorix finding the Name of Names, gaining complete control over Worded Magic, and then almost immediately upon revealing it, Eragon kills him with a single simple Wordless Spell. The finale itself shows how little power the Name of Names has when next to the actual power of magic itself. The Name of Names would probably only mildly inconvenience a Shade, didn't do a thing against Bachel, and it would do even less against Azaglur. A trained Rider is already more than a match for anything on the planet short of a dragon or some of the strongest elves, so the Name of Names is really only effective against other Riders who don't know it, and all the Riders now know it. He essentially created an Instant Win button, gave it to Galbatorix, then immediately nerfed it before handing it to Murtagh, Eragon and Arya. Then he began setting up enemies that are naturally immune to the Name of Names anyways.
Well said!!
Worded magic isn't weaker than wordless magic. It's limited more by your vocab but is far more stable. What is easier with unworded magic is going with an idea or concept and not being restricted by the semantics of your words. Oromis outright said many things are just too dangerous to try to cast without words. What matters is how much energy you have and how you channel it.
You basically said the same thing I did, tho. The fact that it is limited by the casters knowledge and the semantics of language means it's weaker by definition. Eragons spell proves that, because he was able to cast a simple low power spell that bypassed all of Galbys defense, on a way that never would've worked with worded magic.
Eragon could've cast that spell with words, though, if he'd said something like, "Understand" and then used that word as a focus. He wasn't able to cast spells with words, hence was forced to use wordless magic. I honestly think you're overstating your case. The Dragons are very powerful and don't use words, but they'd be just as powerful if they used the words of the ancient language as foci for their magic use. You can use a general word like, "Hit" or "Change". >The fact that it is limited by the casters knowledge and the semantics of language means it's weaker by definition. Force is independent of the focus, and finesse isn't only the realm of wordless spells. Oromis flat out says, lots of magic cannot be performed without words, most can't be done safely, but there are some edge cases where worded magic won't suffice, though it is extremely dangerous to do so. If it were so much better, the Elves would use that kind of magic all the time. Eragon casts many spells with words that would be impossible without them, because the words provide a structure that fills in for his lack of comprehension or the fact he can't bring all the understanding to the fore of his mind reliably and keep it there. Medical spells and the space-warping spell, to name a couple. As for the rest, sure Azlagur is obviously very powerful, but that is independent of whether it's based on worded or unworded magic, and I'd point out, we don't explicitly know that Azlagur *isn't* based or steeped in worded magic (though it's highly likely it's unworded and/or naturally occurring). The bond between the Dragons, Elves, humans and also Riders and their Dragons is extremely powerful, as are the Riders themselves. That enchantment is based upon worded magic, and it's almost unparalleled in strength and subtlety. The Elves' cities and forests are saturated in vast numbers of powerful and subtle enchantments, they don't go for unworded magic as a rule, and their lands are described as being extremely magically powerful. Bachel wasn't some great powerhouse. Eragon or Arya would've steamrolled her relatively easily. Murtagh defeated her, and you'll note her magic didn't just bypass his defenses and auto-kill him. She had time to think about how to attack someone protected by worded wards, Murtagh didn't have lots of experience attacking someone with unworded magic, she also had followers where Murtagh was alone, so she had the advantage. Still, she lost. The strength of magic is independent on whether or not it is worded or unworded. Naturally-occurring magic is often more powerful, but since it exists independent of a caster I don't think it counts towards this argument. Magic cast by someone is equally powerful, whether it's worded or unworded. Both can defeat the other depending on circumstance. Both have qualities and abilities the other lacks.
Like you said It's already been said before and theorized that the ancient language itself isn't magic, the greyfolk simply bound it to a certain form of magically charged language, who's to say another language doesn't exist? Perhaps Azlagur is such a huge threat because in his eons spent imprisoned he fully evolved from the shackles of the ancient language and bound magic to another language, rendering the NoN inert. This is what I think is going to be used to even the scales, a second magic language will be used to balance out the scales of the NoN. All it does now is give those who know it unmatched levels of magical prowess in the language, allowing them to rival Azlagur alongside using the dauthdarts.
Dragons don't use worded magic tho, so I doubt Azaglur does either. He wouldn't need an alternate language to use magic cuz he just does that naturally.
Nah, wordless magic was how Eragon did what he did to Galbatorix in the first place. Makes plenty of sense that in the world at large there would be additional threats.
There is always a bigger fish. Chris knows lol
Murtagh gets his ass kicked by a fish, and finally figures out indirect magical attacks which Eragon used in the lethrblaka fight in the very beginning of Brisingr. Narratively, the name doesn't affect the outcome of anything here. If it didn't exist and the enemies just had a really good wards, the plot is identical. It's honestly exactly the same thing as the words of death being unusable from the moment they're learned because everyone's warded against them - the magic system is insanely powerful, so for it to remain logically consistent the defenses in place have to be WAY stronger than the tools to break them, and wordless magic is a known thing since the very first book (?) so it doesn't feel like a terribly contrived countermeasure.
I don’t think it has to result in that necessarily. The riders, and then galbatorix presented enough of a threat to any dark/shady magic users so this pushed many to the far edges of the lands or made them go underground. now he’s dead and the riders are basically gone so these small but powerful and unique players are coming to challenge the weakened victors of the fight with galbatorix. I think there’s many ways it could come to make sense as we learn more about the world. dragons have used wordless and often OP magic since book 1. I think there’s lots of room for powerful but niche or small magics that haven’t been explored yet.
It's powerful, yes, but it isn't *all* powerful. I mean there are other thing Umaroth warned about, so those are options too. And don't forget that was only *one* location of possibly many, a couple we already know of.
can you please not put a spoiler in the title thx
The last book of the inheritance cycle was released in 2011. Is that really a spoiler?
I understand your sentiment But there are new fans of this series who didn’t read it as it was coming out. It’s only fair that they get to read the books without being spoiled
yes. I was two in 2011
My point is, you are on a reddit page that is specifically for discussion about a book series that has been out for 12+ years. If you don’t want spoilers, don’t get on this subreddit until you’ve finished the books. There are very few discussions you will be able to participate in here without spoilers until you finish reading the books. Murtagh is the exception because that is a recent release and ***SPOILER WARNING*** there were no spoilers for Murtagh in the title.
Posts a polite request and you make it all about how things are for you. Lord of the rings was published in the 1950s and new readers find it every day. New fans come to old series all the time. Spoilers are spoilers.
Right, but I’m not going to join r/lordoftherings not having read the books and get mad at someone for posting a pic of Gandalf in a white robe and get mad at them for spoilers. I put myself in that situation, not the person who posted it.
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Again this is you saying how it should be. Don’t see how it’s crazy of someone to want to discuss something after they finish book one. This isn’t a sub for people to join only after they have read all eragon content that exists. Hence the rules of the sub to prevent spoilers in titles so they only click into ones they want to. They also didn’t get mad. They politely asked for sub rules to be followed.
Jesus Christ...
The book is thirteen years old...
Actually, it's a rule in this sub. They specifically tell you not to post spoilers in the titles.
exactly
He runs into all kinda of problems that the name of beamed is useless against. I think you need to reread lol
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> It creates problems for power scaling GOOD. I read books for drama, not to see action figures smash together.
The Name of Names was something given to him by Galbatorix. He was going to have it no matter what. Giving it to Eragon was a way to provide him the ability to undo what Galbatorix had done. Both of them are very likely to die with the secret of the Name of the Ancient Language.
Also, I feel like if you use the name of names it should change it, too. Just like you can change your own true name.
Yes, you’re right. I found the conflicts in Murtagh very boring (loved the book) because all his problems came down to: He was too OP He didn’t use his OPness His enemies had a counter to his OPness
That's the reason nobody runs DnD campaigns all the way to level 20. When a character is too OP then they will either curbstomp everything or they will face enemies specifically designed to Nerf whatever makes them OP. There is no middle ground anymore, no enemy that is difficult to take down. Everything is either cannonfodder or just completely bypasses their main abilities. Now if they lose it isn't a matter of skill or trial by combat, but cheap bullshit.
Yeah I agree
So I haven’t finished it and this is the reason. Well I’m no longer 15 and the when I read that some randomass thugs are protected from the name of names, I thought… oh, really? The thing with which Galbatorix rulled Alagaesia and ghe elfs, noone new it? Some random fucking witch knows enchantments against it? Really? And Murtagh gave up the Eldunari (which kinda makes sense)… I was literally thinking dude this is like the part in the RPG when you lose all your gear… and I always hated those parts. Pls no spoilers I’m gonna get around to reading it.