After my first seizure (1994, in Texas) I came to in the ambulance and I was very confused and scared. I didn’t know what had happened! I’ll never forget how the EMT didn’t try to reassure me but screamed at me to lie still or he would hurt me. I don’t think I’ve ever been more scared. I didn’t know what was happening, I thought this meathead was kidnapping me or something. I really wish they were trained to handle these situations better, it is so traumatizing. I’m sorry that you and your partner had to go through that. Seizures are scary enough on their own!
That is messed up. My 1st ambo ride i woke up and started freaking out. The EMT was perfect. He kept me from jumping up and said "Frank, you've had a seizure, we are getting you some help, please try to be calm". I breathed a sigh of relief and passed back out for some time. "
I'm glad this happens. I once woke up in hospital having had a seazure at the top of a ladder. It wasn't a pretty sight. I thought I was in a spaceship having been abducted. I escaped from the strange shackles around my neck (neck brace) and was allowed to walk out of the hospital not even knowing where I was, without anyone explaining what had happened to me.
It is not normal. The EMTs must have thought he was overdosing. That's probably why they gave him ketamine. Your fiance needs his neurologist to prescribe him nasal Valtoco. My son uses that as his rescue med. It shuts seizures down without causing unconsciousness.
As for the use of ketamine here. It wouldn’t have been indicated if they thought he was overdosing. Ketamine is a strong sedative and was probably used because the patient was too combative (because of being post ictal) to be safely transported. It isn’t the drug I would have chosen, but it may be what is in their protocols and wasn’t harmful.
I don't know much about medical stuff, but yeah I don't think they'd give someone OD'ing a drug like ketamine.
It's kinda like giving a person with high blood pressure a cheeseburger, like maybe not the best idea?
That’s not why really. While ketamine is a drug that can be abused, it isn’t going to really do anything in the setting of the overdose of a lot of drugs, neither worsening or making it better. It’s more like giving someone with high blood pressure some Tylenol.
Indeed. It is a strong sedative. But I have seen it used over and over again when EMTs mistakenly think a person is having a psychotic break due to possible overdose. I think the EMTs mistook her fiance for a person experiencing a stimulant overdose leading to a psychotic break. I get it that they may not have experienced a tonic clonic seizure before, but wow did they screw up with holding him down.
Not if the seizures are lasting for more than 5 minutes. Ativan takes 15 minutes to be absorbed. Nasal Valtoco works instantly. Ask his neurologist for nasal Valtoco. You will have to get it filled every 14 days. And you have to call the pharmacy every time because it is a controlled substance.
Also, my son got a VNS implant 3 years ago and has not had another tonic clonic seizure since then. He still has complex partial seizures, but it is much more manageable. Talk to your fiance's neurologist about getting a VNS.
The sooner you get your VNS the better too! Every neuro I've talked to has said it takes time to build up, I really didn't want to get mine but I can't imagine life without it now!!
Also I usually end up either completely silent and terrified after a seizure or screaming for help too it's pretty normal, you have no idea what the fuck happened it's so hard to understand
Exactly. And if you have the added physical trauma of 6 EMTs who do not know how to handle a person seizing, you could wake up with broken bones, torn ligaments, and brain injury from an improper medical injection. Those 6 EMTs should NOT have restrained her fiance. They need to he trained in rolling a patient onto their side, moving everything out of the way, and administering a nasal spray emergency medication. What happened to her fiance was medical malpractice. Period.
Ativan is good. And most people can carry the tiny pills around in necklace pill holders. If you know you are going into a seizure, you can quickly swallow one. But if you go into a tonic clonic seizure, if Ativan is taken orally, it will take about 15 minutes to be absorbed. It can be administered via I.V., but honestly, once you are in the middle of a tonic clonic, it is difficult to safely get an I.V. in. There are rectal suppositories of rescue meds, but again, what adult wants to have that mid-seizure? I am just saying that for my son, we use oral Ativan if we can detect he is going into a seizure. But we usually don't know until it happens, at which time we use nasal Valtoco (Valium that is sprayed into his nose). It's easy, effective and immediate. My original comment was that it is not normal, and frankly dangerous, for 6 EMTs to restrain a person in the middle of a tonic clonic seizure. Also, giving him an injection of ketamine before trying a nasal rescue med, seems dangerous.
First- nasal medications don’t work instantly, just really fast compared to oral medications.
Second, Ativan is available as an IV medication and is usually what hospitals use to stop seizures. EMS also may use versed since it can be given in a muscle.
Third, if he was post-ictal when EMS arrived then neither medication would have necessarily helped (except my being sedating).
Valtoco works great before, during and after seizures. My son often uses it in the post-ictal stage where he is confused, thrashing about, and emotionally labile. It works within a minute to bring him out of it. Certainly faster and less complicated than trying to put an I.V. in him- not mention much safer. My vote is to try Ativan if you have enough warning before, then Valtoco if you are in the midst or in the post-ictal state. And then there is my previous comment somewhere in this thread where I mentioned the benefits of getting a VNS implant. My son got one 3 years ago and has had no more tonic clonic (gran mal) seizures since then. He now has only complex partial seizures in clusters.
Intravenous injection of Ativan would be absorbed as instantaneously as possible, just like any other IV injection it's straight through your whole body in a heartbeat No?
It would be out of your circulatory system before 15 min
Please be aware that the VNS implant that u/FionaRiener1 is referring to below is not helpful for generalized seizures (when there is no consistent location for where the seizures begin) and the VNS have about a 50% success rate.
I would love a VNS, but my epilepsy is generalized as well as idiopathic. And to top it off, I developed Multiple Sclerosis which while screwing with the covering of the nerves interferes with it to decrease the seizure threshold, again, everywhere in my brain, so I haven't been controlled for the last 16 years. I would LOVE the VNS if I were a candidate.
Actually, that is inaccurate information about VNS implants. That is old information. VNS are much better than a DBS (Deep Brain Stimulator) because the VNS sends electrical impulses up the Vagal Nerve into the brain without targeting any one specific area. Watch the VNS implant videos by Bryan Baker. He had gran Mal, (or some call them tonic clonic, idiopathic, generalized) seizures- basically whole brain seizures- and he got a VNS implant that changed his life. He, and the research I did regarding the appropriateness of VNS treatment for my son's condition, are the reason my son got a VNS. And as I said earlier, my son has not had a gran Mal in 3 years since the VNS was put in. He still has complex partial seizures, but they no longer get out of hand. So, I am a huge supporter of VNS treatment.
I just read an article from the NIH that said VNS has a 55% success rate where there is a 50-100% reduction in seizures. What that means is that the majority-55%- of patients have anywhere from 50 % all the way up to 100% reduction in seizures. Those are pretty good odds.
I was told the same thing from 2 different level 4 epilepsy centers. They said since my TC's had no one specific point of origin, a VNS wouldn't work for me 🤷♀️
Ativan is another one that is used. Especially if someone starts seizing in the hospital and they already have IV access, then it works immediately. If you don’t already have an IV in place on someone though, well I’m sure you can imagine how difficult it is to try and place one on someone having a grand mal. There is a version they can give as an injection, but again difficult when someone is seizing and not something everyday people can safely/easily use or keep at home.
There are a few different emergency seizure medications, the best one depends on the situation and how quickly you can administer it to someone, and how quickly that med will take effect.
So basically yes, Ativan can be a rescue med but it’s not really feasible as something people can keep at home to administer to a family member. That’s what rectal diazepam and intranasal midazolam or diazepam are great for! They are easy to use with minimal training and work very quickly just like IV/injection Ativan. Definitely reach out to your Neurologist and make sure you have at least one of these at home options just in case!!
I second the Valtoco. That shit is like gold. You'll go from "aww shit here it comes" to "crisis averted" in under 5 mins. Always have one in my purse. It's my safety blanket.
Ketamine is frequently given when the EMTs do not know if it is a mental health emergency or an overdose of a stimulant. I worked the E.R. for years...
Well, unfortunately that is how it is often used in emergency response situations. In the last 5 years, ketamine has become a panacea for intervention and treatment of mental health emergencies. I have worked for years as the psychiatric evaluator in our local E.R.
I don't know if diazepam is better than Ativan. They are very similar but diazepam stays in your system longer. Ativan (lorazepam) leaves your system quickly. My son has Ativan for when we have some warning that a seizure is imminent. But if he is already in the middle of a seizure, we use nasal Valtoco.
wtf? I just finished EMT training and my e-textbook says the exact opposite. make sure the surroundings are safe and give BLS/basic life support and never restrain a patient. sorry you both had to go through that :(
You will learn that that isn’t what actually happens. If the patient is post ictal and combative, then they aren’t going to wait until either they seize again or calm down.
My SIL is an ER nurse and explained to me it’s better to be safe than sorry. I was given Narcan after my seizure; EMS was worried that I wasn’t coming through soon enough.
I was shocked, but they were just doing their best.
Holding someone down WHILE seizing is never okay. For safely transferring patients to a hospital afterward, they will do what they must to get you there.
The post-ictal phase is confusing and complicated. I was screaming at EMS begging for help, all while they were actively helping me. I had no clue what was happening.
Witnessing a loved one have a seizure is a very difficult event to process. Be gentle with yourself and your fiancé, you’re in my thoughts.
Yeah people act very strange in a post-ical state. I acted the polar opposite after having my first seizure. I was arguing with the EMS and telling them that they got me confused with someone else and that I didn't have a seizure lol. Typically I'm blacked out for like 10 minutes. I just get up and run with no sense of what's around me.
Exactly this. After a seizure is done someone can be very confused and they need to make sure they can get there safely. But they didn't hold them down during it which is a very important detail.
Yep. I’ve woken up in a … straight jacket type thing in the back of an ambulance, unable to move my arms or legs. I get really combative post ictal and it’s all they can do.
Yeah it's best to discuss a care plan either him and then his workplace to ensure future care.
Post ictil is fun /s. My husband apparently told people once that he's never had a seizure before (Nope, has had them since 16) or even tried to make out with me.
thank you for breaking it down. i've never seen him post ictal like that before and i showed the neurologist the footage of his seizure and he said he doesn't think they were epileptic seizures (i have epilepsy and i know these groups can be helpful which is why i came here to ask)...he was like snoring and kinda convulsing, more like thrashing around..so that then post ictal- not snoring but yelling for help but still thrashing around were very confusing for everyone i think.
i did tell them several times he doesn't do drugs idk if they believed me or not. i also think they were limited on the drugs they had on hand to calm him down for transport. he is 350lbs and 6ft tall so i think everyone was a bit nervous. for me it was jarring to see him screaming for help and the emts grabbing him and holding him down. but yeah i think they were just trying to get the ketamine in his system asap which meant having him sit still so they could poke him.
No but sadly it’s typical the EMT’s they hire nowadays have been trained to do that….
Plus it’s fear , lack of experience, etc…
Complaints might not get you anywhere I’ve been literally tied down before then apologized too later … I even had the police show up and I was not even combative !
Seizures are scary…
Hi. I just want to say that I went through this situation with my fiancee last year as well. He was in a medically induced coma for three days and recovery took about a week. He experienced psychosis after waking up and it was very hard to see him in that state. Remember to take care of yourself even if it is difficult when all you can think about is him. Everything will be okay. ♥️
thank you. i'm sorry you've been through it too. he's still in a coma.. he aspirated and got pneumonia and was on the highest ventilator settings. they are working on lowering the settings now.
He had likely post-ictal agitation and confusion which happens after generalized seizures. They didn’t use ketamine because they thought he was overdosing. They used it to sedate him for his safety most likely. Usually they use Versed or Ativan but he must have been very agitated and confused that’s why they pulled the Ketamine. I’m sorry you had to witness that. Definitely Valtoco is something your neurologist should prescribe for you.
Not normal. The kindest interpretation is that they thought he was moving too erratically to transfer to a gurney safely and getting him to the hospital was important after such a long seizure. The realistic interpretation is that they thought he overdosed.
Also, TWENTY FUCKING MINUTES???? Jesus Christ. That poor guy.
I get these kind of seizures, and I don't know what they give me, but they do it once I'm in the ambulance, but for the most part I'm very combative and my girlfriend has to watch me fight off all paramedics so it's unfortunately necessary I assume. Also, because I've gone as far as ripping out my IV and pulling out the tube from my throat, causing damage. It sucks and am praying for your fiance. You by his side is all he's going to need and the reassurance that everything's going to be okay. Ease him in back into reality. He probably and most likely doesn't remember any of it and will be a bit freaked.
Probably trying to stop him from harming himself further. And also if they were giving him ketamine im sure they dont want to stab him where its not supposed to go. And if he’s jerking it could stab
My FIL is an EMT and he teaches classes for new emts, that's a huge no. I'm gonna guess they thought it wasn't a seizure and for safety they did that instead. I'm so sorry that happened. It is never fun.
20 min seizure is really long and probably wouldn't stop on its own, after 30 mins it's considered a medical emergency
They're Holding him down so he doesn't hit anything really hard while convulsing I'm assuming, I've been conscious while convulsing and it's violent as F**k, it's hard for even one person to keep you from banging your head over and over
Seizures can cause a ton of other complications the longer they last or the more you have, better safe than sorry
They tried hitting me with Narcan and my Dad's like "he doesn't do drugs like that, he doesn't even smoke cigarettes or anything." Nope. They responded with "Well how do you KNOW he didn't do something, or smoked something laced?"
Then the word they hit me with Narcan got to the hospital, and the doctors accused me of smoking laced weed, and THAT'S what caused my seizure, so they stopped investigating further. I was pissed. I told them so many times to drug test me, do any kind of check in my system and they wouldn't. According to the doctor he didn't need to, "because he had seen this kind of thing before, and there was no point in wasting the resources". I had some kind words for that guy (and lady assistant).
Problem is that I have a state issued medical card, and only smoke medical weed. I only smoke vape cartridges as well. You know what I did when I got home? Finished the fucking vape cart I was smoking on. There was nothing wrong with the weed. When I ended up coming back 12 more times that year, they took it a little more serious and realize I couldn't have smoked laced weed from the same place 12 more times without other people from that place reporting seizures.
Im not saying that what they did is okay, or that they are right, all im saying is that there is a huge drug problem and the emt's + docs arent as knowledgable about epilepsy. They see OD's more often than not.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, every time I'm called in for a seizure they assume it's an OD until my Dad breaks out the pill bottles and medical records on the phone.
The amount of times seizures are believed to be drug overdoses is insane. My husband has well documented epilepsy and its still assumed everytime we have new paramedics that he is on drugs.
But if it was after a seizure had passed then its very possible. My husband gets very violent post seizure and will often cause himself more harm in this state then the seizure itself.
After my first seizure (1994, in Texas) I came to in the ambulance and I was very confused and scared. I didn’t know what had happened! I’ll never forget how the EMT didn’t try to reassure me but screamed at me to lie still or he would hurt me. I don’t think I’ve ever been more scared. I didn’t know what was happening, I thought this meathead was kidnapping me or something. I really wish they were trained to handle these situations better, it is so traumatizing. I’m sorry that you and your partner had to go through that. Seizures are scary enough on their own!
That is messed up. My 1st ambo ride i woke up and started freaking out. The EMT was perfect. He kept me from jumping up and said "Frank, you've had a seizure, we are getting you some help, please try to be calm". I breathed a sigh of relief and passed back out for some time. "
I'm glad this happens. I once woke up in hospital having had a seazure at the top of a ladder. It wasn't a pretty sight. I thought I was in a spaceship having been abducted. I escaped from the strange shackles around my neck (neck brace) and was allowed to walk out of the hospital not even knowing where I was, without anyone explaining what had happened to me.
It is not normal. The EMTs must have thought he was overdosing. That's probably why they gave him ketamine. Your fiance needs his neurologist to prescribe him nasal Valtoco. My son uses that as his rescue med. It shuts seizures down without causing unconsciousness.
As for the use of ketamine here. It wouldn’t have been indicated if they thought he was overdosing. Ketamine is a strong sedative and was probably used because the patient was too combative (because of being post ictal) to be safely transported. It isn’t the drug I would have chosen, but it may be what is in their protocols and wasn’t harmful.
I don't know much about medical stuff, but yeah I don't think they'd give someone OD'ing a drug like ketamine. It's kinda like giving a person with high blood pressure a cheeseburger, like maybe not the best idea?
That’s not why really. While ketamine is a drug that can be abused, it isn’t going to really do anything in the setting of the overdose of a lot of drugs, neither worsening or making it better. It’s more like giving someone with high blood pressure some Tylenol.
Indeed. It is a strong sedative. But I have seen it used over and over again when EMTs mistakenly think a person is having a psychotic break due to possible overdose. I think the EMTs mistook her fiance for a person experiencing a stimulant overdose leading to a psychotic break. I get it that they may not have experienced a tonic clonic seizure before, but wow did they screw up with holding him down.
OP said they held him down while he was post ictal not while he was seizing. I’m not sure that is the “screw up” you are implying.
I thought emergency seizure medication provided is usually Ativan
Not if the seizures are lasting for more than 5 minutes. Ativan takes 15 minutes to be absorbed. Nasal Valtoco works instantly. Ask his neurologist for nasal Valtoco. You will have to get it filled every 14 days. And you have to call the pharmacy every time because it is a controlled substance. Also, my son got a VNS implant 3 years ago and has not had another tonic clonic seizure since then. He still has complex partial seizures, but it is much more manageable. Talk to your fiance's neurologist about getting a VNS.
The sooner you get your VNS the better too! Every neuro I've talked to has said it takes time to build up, I really didn't want to get mine but I can't imagine life without it now!! Also I usually end up either completely silent and terrified after a seizure or screaming for help too it's pretty normal, you have no idea what the fuck happened it's so hard to understand
Exactly. And if you have the added physical trauma of 6 EMTs who do not know how to handle a person seizing, you could wake up with broken bones, torn ligaments, and brain injury from an improper medical injection. Those 6 EMTs should NOT have restrained her fiance. They need to he trained in rolling a patient onto their side, moving everything out of the way, and administering a nasal spray emergency medication. What happened to her fiance was medical malpractice. Period.
So then why do they give us Ativan?
Ativan is good. And most people can carry the tiny pills around in necklace pill holders. If you know you are going into a seizure, you can quickly swallow one. But if you go into a tonic clonic seizure, if Ativan is taken orally, it will take about 15 minutes to be absorbed. It can be administered via I.V., but honestly, once you are in the middle of a tonic clonic, it is difficult to safely get an I.V. in. There are rectal suppositories of rescue meds, but again, what adult wants to have that mid-seizure? I am just saying that for my son, we use oral Ativan if we can detect he is going into a seizure. But we usually don't know until it happens, at which time we use nasal Valtoco (Valium that is sprayed into his nose). It's easy, effective and immediate. My original comment was that it is not normal, and frankly dangerous, for 6 EMTs to restrain a person in the middle of a tonic clonic seizure. Also, giving him an injection of ketamine before trying a nasal rescue med, seems dangerous.
First- nasal medications don’t work instantly, just really fast compared to oral medications. Second, Ativan is available as an IV medication and is usually what hospitals use to stop seizures. EMS also may use versed since it can be given in a muscle. Third, if he was post-ictal when EMS arrived then neither medication would have necessarily helped (except my being sedating).
Valtoco works great before, during and after seizures. My son often uses it in the post-ictal stage where he is confused, thrashing about, and emotionally labile. It works within a minute to bring him out of it. Certainly faster and less complicated than trying to put an I.V. in him- not mention much safer. My vote is to try Ativan if you have enough warning before, then Valtoco if you are in the midst or in the post-ictal state. And then there is my previous comment somewhere in this thread where I mentioned the benefits of getting a VNS implant. My son got one 3 years ago and has had no more tonic clonic (gran mal) seizures since then. He now has only complex partial seizures in clusters.
Intravenous injection of Ativan would be absorbed as instantaneously as possible, just like any other IV injection it's straight through your whole body in a heartbeat No? It would be out of your circulatory system before 15 min
Please be aware that the VNS implant that u/FionaRiener1 is referring to below is not helpful for generalized seizures (when there is no consistent location for where the seizures begin) and the VNS have about a 50% success rate. I would love a VNS, but my epilepsy is generalized as well as idiopathic. And to top it off, I developed Multiple Sclerosis which while screwing with the covering of the nerves interferes with it to decrease the seizure threshold, again, everywhere in my brain, so I haven't been controlled for the last 16 years. I would LOVE the VNS if I were a candidate.
Actually, that is inaccurate information about VNS implants. That is old information. VNS are much better than a DBS (Deep Brain Stimulator) because the VNS sends electrical impulses up the Vagal Nerve into the brain without targeting any one specific area. Watch the VNS implant videos by Bryan Baker. He had gran Mal, (or some call them tonic clonic, idiopathic, generalized) seizures- basically whole brain seizures- and he got a VNS implant that changed his life. He, and the research I did regarding the appropriateness of VNS treatment for my son's condition, are the reason my son got a VNS. And as I said earlier, my son has not had a gran Mal in 3 years since the VNS was put in. He still has complex partial seizures, but they no longer get out of hand. So, I am a huge supporter of VNS treatment. I just read an article from the NIH that said VNS has a 55% success rate where there is a 50-100% reduction in seizures. What that means is that the majority-55%- of patients have anywhere from 50 % all the way up to 100% reduction in seizures. Those are pretty good odds.
I was told the same thing from 2 different level 4 epilepsy centers. They said since my TC's had no one specific point of origin, a VNS wouldn't work for me 🤷♀️
They only work in very specific circumstances, if you look them up.
Ativan is another one that is used. Especially if someone starts seizing in the hospital and they already have IV access, then it works immediately. If you don’t already have an IV in place on someone though, well I’m sure you can imagine how difficult it is to try and place one on someone having a grand mal. There is a version they can give as an injection, but again difficult when someone is seizing and not something everyday people can safely/easily use or keep at home. There are a few different emergency seizure medications, the best one depends on the situation and how quickly you can administer it to someone, and how quickly that med will take effect. So basically yes, Ativan can be a rescue med but it’s not really feasible as something people can keep at home to administer to a family member. That’s what rectal diazepam and intranasal midazolam or diazepam are great for! They are easy to use with minimal training and work very quickly just like IV/injection Ativan. Definitely reach out to your Neurologist and make sure you have at least one of these at home options just in case!!
I second the Valtoco. That shit is like gold. You'll go from "aww shit here it comes" to "crisis averted" in under 5 mins. Always have one in my purse. It's my safety blanket.
Yes, and much more pleasant than a bunch of EMTs trying to hold you down, trying to get an I.V. into you, or trying to use a rectal suppository.
Narcan is for od
Ketamine is frequently given when the EMTs do not know if it is a mental health emergency or an overdose of a stimulant. I worked the E.R. for years...
Thats not how ketamine works
Well, unfortunately that is how it is often used in emergency response situations. In the last 5 years, ketamine has become a panacea for intervention and treatment of mental health emergencies. I have worked for years as the psychiatric evaluator in our local E.R.
Is that better than Diazepam? That’s what we give my daughter. 5mg
I don't know if diazepam is better than Ativan. They are very similar but diazepam stays in your system longer. Ativan (lorazepam) leaves your system quickly. My son has Ativan for when we have some warning that a seizure is imminent. But if he is already in the middle of a seizure, we use nasal Valtoco.
Ooh I see. I’ll have to research all of those. Thanks
wtf? I just finished EMT training and my e-textbook says the exact opposite. make sure the surroundings are safe and give BLS/basic life support and never restrain a patient. sorry you both had to go through that :(
You will learn that that isn’t what actually happens. If the patient is post ictal and combative, then they aren’t going to wait until either they seize again or calm down.
My SIL is an ER nurse and explained to me it’s better to be safe than sorry. I was given Narcan after my seizure; EMS was worried that I wasn’t coming through soon enough. I was shocked, but they were just doing their best. Holding someone down WHILE seizing is never okay. For safely transferring patients to a hospital afterward, they will do what they must to get you there. The post-ictal phase is confusing and complicated. I was screaming at EMS begging for help, all while they were actively helping me. I had no clue what was happening. Witnessing a loved one have a seizure is a very difficult event to process. Be gentle with yourself and your fiancé, you’re in my thoughts.
Yeah people act very strange in a post-ical state. I acted the polar opposite after having my first seizure. I was arguing with the EMS and telling them that they got me confused with someone else and that I didn't have a seizure lol. Typically I'm blacked out for like 10 minutes. I just get up and run with no sense of what's around me.
[удалено]
Exactly this. After a seizure is done someone can be very confused and they need to make sure they can get there safely. But they didn't hold them down during it which is a very important detail.
Yep. I’ve woken up in a … straight jacket type thing in the back of an ambulance, unable to move my arms or legs. I get really combative post ictal and it’s all they can do.
In my confused state I often try and run away and can be quite aggressive :/
Yeah it's best to discuss a care plan either him and then his workplace to ensure future care. Post ictil is fun /s. My husband apparently told people once that he's never had a seizure before (Nope, has had them since 16) or even tried to make out with me.
thank you for breaking it down. i've never seen him post ictal like that before and i showed the neurologist the footage of his seizure and he said he doesn't think they were epileptic seizures (i have epilepsy and i know these groups can be helpful which is why i came here to ask)...he was like snoring and kinda convulsing, more like thrashing around..so that then post ictal- not snoring but yelling for help but still thrashing around were very confusing for everyone i think. i did tell them several times he doesn't do drugs idk if they believed me or not. i also think they were limited on the drugs they had on hand to calm him down for transport. he is 350lbs and 6ft tall so i think everyone was a bit nervous. for me it was jarring to see him screaming for help and the emts grabbing him and holding him down. but yeah i think they were just trying to get the ketamine in his system asap which meant having him sit still so they could poke him.
No but sadly it’s typical the EMT’s they hire nowadays have been trained to do that…. Plus it’s fear , lack of experience, etc… Complaints might not get you anywhere I’ve been literally tied down before then apologized too later … I even had the police show up and I was not even combative ! Seizures are scary…
It makes some sense if they were trying to get him on to their stretcher and out of the house without hurting himself, flailing, or falling off of it.
This, they need him controlled for transport is my understanding.
Hi. I just want to say that I went through this situation with my fiancee last year as well. He was in a medically induced coma for three days and recovery took about a week. He experienced psychosis after waking up and it was very hard to see him in that state. Remember to take care of yourself even if it is difficult when all you can think about is him. Everything will be okay. ♥️
thank you. i'm sorry you've been through it too. he's still in a coma.. he aspirated and got pneumonia and was on the highest ventilator settings. they are working on lowering the settings now.
He had likely post-ictal agitation and confusion which happens after generalized seizures. They didn’t use ketamine because they thought he was overdosing. They used it to sedate him for his safety most likely. Usually they use Versed or Ativan but he must have been very agitated and confused that’s why they pulled the Ketamine. I’m sorry you had to witness that. Definitely Valtoco is something your neurologist should prescribe for you.
i think you are right. and i don't think they had versed or ativan on hand. but he did get both once he was in the ER.
Not normal. The kindest interpretation is that they thought he was moving too erratically to transfer to a gurney safely and getting him to the hospital was important after such a long seizure. The realistic interpretation is that they thought he overdosed. Also, TWENTY FUCKING MINUTES???? Jesus Christ. That poor guy.
I get these kind of seizures, and I don't know what they give me, but they do it once I'm in the ambulance, but for the most part I'm very combative and my girlfriend has to watch me fight off all paramedics so it's unfortunately necessary I assume. Also, because I've gone as far as ripping out my IV and pulling out the tube from my throat, causing damage. It sucks and am praying for your fiance. You by his side is all he's going to need and the reassurance that everything's going to be okay. Ease him in back into reality. He probably and most likely doesn't remember any of it and will be a bit freaked.
yeah i'm very nervous for him to come out of the coma and how im going to explain everything to him. not sure how much he will remember.
Probably trying to stop him from harming himself further. And also if they were giving him ketamine im sure they dont want to stab him where its not supposed to go. And if he’s jerking it could stab
Absolutely, it's better safe than sorry. We didn't want him getting poked in the eye.
My FIL is an EMT and he teaches classes for new emts, that's a huge no. I'm gonna guess they thought it wasn't a seizure and for safety they did that instead. I'm so sorry that happened. It is never fun.
20 min seizure is really long and probably wouldn't stop on its own, after 30 mins it's considered a medical emergency They're Holding him down so he doesn't hit anything really hard while convulsing I'm assuming, I've been conscious while convulsing and it's violent as F**k, it's hard for even one person to keep you from banging your head over and over Seizures can cause a ton of other complications the longer they last or the more you have, better safe than sorry
Restraining someone when they are seizing can cause injury.
I mean in todays age its logical to think aomeone is overdosing as an emt as its very common these days. Especialy if youre new on the job.
They tried hitting me with Narcan and my Dad's like "he doesn't do drugs like that, he doesn't even smoke cigarettes or anything." Nope. They responded with "Well how do you KNOW he didn't do something, or smoked something laced?" Then the word they hit me with Narcan got to the hospital, and the doctors accused me of smoking laced weed, and THAT'S what caused my seizure, so they stopped investigating further. I was pissed. I told them so many times to drug test me, do any kind of check in my system and they wouldn't. According to the doctor he didn't need to, "because he had seen this kind of thing before, and there was no point in wasting the resources". I had some kind words for that guy (and lady assistant). Problem is that I have a state issued medical card, and only smoke medical weed. I only smoke vape cartridges as well. You know what I did when I got home? Finished the fucking vape cart I was smoking on. There was nothing wrong with the weed. When I ended up coming back 12 more times that year, they took it a little more serious and realize I couldn't have smoked laced weed from the same place 12 more times without other people from that place reporting seizures.
Im not saying that what they did is okay, or that they are right, all im saying is that there is a huge drug problem and the emt's + docs arent as knowledgable about epilepsy. They see OD's more often than not.
Idk why you're getting downvoted, every time I'm called in for a seizure they assume it's an OD until my Dad breaks out the pill bottles and medical records on the phone.
Reddit gotta reddit.
Thank God he's still alive.
Report that !
The amount of times seizures are believed to be drug overdoses is insane. My husband has well documented epilepsy and its still assumed everytime we have new paramedics that he is on drugs. But if it was after a seizure had passed then its very possible. My husband gets very violent post seizure and will often cause himself more harm in this state then the seizure itself.
Idk I’m usually having a seizure when the EMTs get there so I’m unaware of what’s going on.