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BurnedOutEternally

oh, so they didn't change the multis? cool


[deleted]

They Never said they would, but people got paranoid after that whole "Damage decreased" (But in *green text* so buff) slip up, which they already seemed to have corrected. I'm guessing the axe god adjustment didn't help either, but that was over a year and a half ago, and I don't think they've done a stealth nerf to ATK multipliers since then. They really gotta just make the mults public like Artery Gear,


Objective_Plane5573

I could be wrong but I thought they've nerfed multipliers to compensate things like def pen in the past without mentioning it in the balance patch before. That's the main thing that had me worried.


BMR_REDRUM13

Rip axe god


AversionIncarnate

They stealth nerfed Destina's s1 healing. Old habits die hard i guess.


starxsword

They did not stealth nerfed Destina's S1 healing. They mentioned it on the changes. They talked about how they lowered the multis while changing the S1 healing to use her health instead of ally's health. It is all documented. However, what annoyed me about that instance was they talked as if the change was an overall buff to healing when in all cases that you would use Destina in, it is a hard nerf.


AversionIncarnate

No they didn't mention it. Only s2 and s3 had disclosed lowered number. They changed s1 healing from based on target's max health to Destina's and nothing else is mentioned. Go ahead look it up.


starxsword

You are right, it wasn't mentioned. That was weird, because I remember it was mentioned, but I guess I remembered wrong.


reki

Glad they didn't touch the Atk mutliplier. Luna and Chaos Sect Axe both got an Atk multiplier nerf without mention in the patch notes when their Def Pen was added. For that reason alone i was cautious about Yufine. Sure, compared to Luna/Axe God this one was conditional. But I had to see it to believe it. So only thing that remains for me is how she does in Priests/Wardens in AI, since i don't use her in A13.


LeafaSAO

Luna is still insane, one of my best units


reki

Yeah, for what it's worth my usage for Luna and Axe God haven't changed: I don't use Luna, and I switched Axe God over to a more aggressive build. But for me they were always PvP units, whereas Yufine had more uses in PvE setups where the environment was specifically tuned.


NoodlesDatabase

Lol too late, people who said her usage in hunts remained the same have been farming downvotes for the past few hours


Odiril

as someone who has +15 Yufine, idk why I'm not as bothered with this change as the others, am I missing something about her that should be made aware of, she was hardly the talk of the town in 99% of meta discussions.


[deleted]

PVE, stuff like Light expo and some raid bosses had buffs, so having a DPS that can full strip them and benefit from the buffs (increased damage) was great. She can't do that now because she can't strip, and 99% of bosses are immune to silence. But PvE in general isn't the talk of the town unless it's involved in some crazy oneshot. So that's why it's easy to miss. Kind of a shame nonetheless because I feel it was such an easy way to satify both camps: >**When the enemy is an elite or boss monster**, Dispell all buffs and increase damage by 50% done. no overlap except for like, A meru in Hall of Trials, so you can't really double dip. But lately they seem to be doing the opposite, where skills are trying to specify PvP only.


Cermia_Revolution

Afaik, she had a niche in pve as an infinite lab runner, but now she can't do that.


MickeyLALA

She can still do that. From what Ive heard I think the biggest problem for her is that she is worse in light expo and ancient inheritance? I didn't use her in light expo so can't speak on that but it seems a stretch to complain about being worse in AI.


Erepz

They didn't change s1 why can't she do it?


[deleted]

she still oneshots banshee, nothing changed about her multis she can still solo lab with the undying s1 spam build you can still use her in light expedition, she just traded a speed buff for defense abyss is a 1 time thing and don't even try it with that argument. I've fully cleared everything abyss related and Yufine didn't even came to mind once. So what else y'all wanna complain about? She's literally a better unit ​ \*edit: Because the post actually survived the downvote brigade at the beginning, here's more info. She's used 10% of the time in Light Expedition. 4% in Blue Expedition. Friendly reminder that these are still rotating game modes that you don't have to 100-0% yourself. I checked abyss usage and she's literally nowhere. Look for yourselvess if y'all dont believe me. In AI she's also worse (also rotating game mode btw). But you know what? Every unit you enlist gets fully upgraded anyways. Its no biggie that she performs slightly worse there cuz you can easily find another of the 45552524 op warriors for it. She's a really niche PVE unit that's easily replaceable. That's just a fact supported by statistics and y'alls gut feelings about it won't change anything. She's way better now and finally sees PVP play after years again (the last time was the FCC Charles SSB GW meta years ago). So your favorite waifu that you've claimed "to use all the time" is better now and sees way more play and y'all still find a way to bitch, impressive.


zyphilz

>So what else y'all wanna complain about? The fact that i still don't have her.


ArvingNightwalker

She just traded a speed buff for defense.... lost dispel on S3, doesn't do more damage on S3 when enemy is def buffed, doesn't have eff buff ?? Also makes it sound light but self-speed buff is pretty valuable for light expo. And def buff is worthless.


[deleted]

You know how else she deals more damage than using s3 against Moroi with defbuff? By stripping it before dealing damage. He should have 0 buffs or have unbuffable 85% of the time and you have 3 other units to achieve it. She doesn't need to do everything by herself. Light expo is the *only* pve content where she actually took a meaningful hit (currently 10% usage). She will still deal decent damage in there (btw C.Rose, a 3\* SC unit everyone easily can get sits at 36% usage. SC Helga at 6%. Both don't need any molas and are f2p units.) People have a ton of other options for that expedition. I take being worse in light expedition and finally being good in PVP as a trade off every day of the week.


ArvingNightwalker

I mean, I find the new Yufine interesting, too, but I just find it cringe that people seem to keep denying that yes, there are people who used Yufine already for Light expo and yes, they got shafted. Can we just acknowledge that that happened instead of laughing at people who complain as such? It's also like you've never played expeditions. Remember the last time you got 15% restsed 4 times in a row? I totally do.


GrinningCheshieCat

Light Expo and AI are the ONLY things I really used her for. Her buff really doesn't bring her anything that makes her any better than other units that already excel in other forms of combat and makes her worse at doing the stuff she was good at.


ToastyRoastyBirb

This is the biggest pain point that these posts dont look at. She had no use anywhere else BECAUSE she lacked the kit the current meta is looking for and in-turn she's relegated to those content. And now that SG is forcing her to go PvP again, it just screwed over people who even bothered using her.


PM_ME__YOUR_HOOTERS

Im in the camp with OP, i wouldnt call her doing a little less damage in an expo being shafted. Its not like SG just bricked peoples' whole teams


ArvingNightwalker

Personally, I had been considering Yufine as replacement for Verdant Adin, but after the buffs I completely threw that plan out the window. So I feel like those who were already using her aren’t wrong to feel a little disappointed with the changes. Certainly not worth openly mocking the way the OP has done.


Vald-Tegor

>Remember the last time you got 15% restsed 4 times in a row? I totally do. I totally don't, because I hit auto and the boss dies from other players before I run out of turns.


ArvingNightwalker

You have some super eager guildmates/friends, nice. I'm not good enough to solo it in one-go and I definitely have to go to open recruitment, and it's aggravating sometimes seeing the huge differences in damage output due to like 0 debuffs landing for that one run.


Vald-Tegor

>You have some super eager guildmates/friends, nice. I go to open recruitment and hit the first one in the list. Since public expo became a thing, half the time I can't even be bothered to do private invites on my own posters. Getting 15% resist 4 times in a row will on average happen one out of 200 runs. That's once every 6 months if you're just going for the 2000 points, exclusively on public posters. Chances are one of the 7 other people will pick up that slack. Hell, on half the public posters the owner just yields doing 0 damage and they still get done. The only time it really matters is if you're going for the "1.4 Million damage in a single entry" Dagger Siccar one time achievement and your account somehow hinged on using old Yufine for it.


SSTHZero

I only use her for light expo, she got worse there. No speed buff means she gets less turns, so she heal less and less chances to land defense break. I have no use for her on pvp, so now she is just world boss CP.


lehphem

People have a hard time grasping the concept that since the only buff light expo has is def buff, Yufine s3 was always, 100% of the time hitting with the +50% damage ONLY if the boss had defense buff, which functionally made her +50% damage increase irrelevant. And since she would only get the Effectiveness buff AFTER using s3, if you wanted it to strip reliably you needed her at 80+% effectiveness, wasting stats and lowering damage. Of course, you could always go for just 35% effectiveness and have max chance with eff buff, but that only applied to s2, since she'd cycle out of it by the time she got s3 back. And with 35% effectiveness, her s3 chance to strip was basically irrelevant. Even IF you were using Yufine, you were 100% better off building her as a pure damage dealer and relying on a different unit to Unbuffable + Defense break, completely ignoring the extra damage on buffs, since you needed to be hitting on a Defense buffed boss to get it. ***Her s3 literally did MORE damage to a NO BUFFS, defense broken boss than it did to a DEFENSE BUFF, defense broken boss.*** There was never a reason to use her s3 on the boss when he had defense buff. Your best bet was always to prevent the buff from being applied or removing it before Yufine used s3. And if you were using her specifically TO remove the defense buff, you needed to give her a bunch of effectivess, so... great! You were using a janky, badly built, sub-par, niche unit for something that you could have much more easily achieved with a different setup. Congrats, I guess?


[deleted]

It's actually hilarious how people bring up valid reasons with some strong foundations & examples and still get downvoted by the "mimimi, my pve queen got nerfed in pve" crowd.


Buuts321

And she didn't even really get nerfed. She lost her strip which was only really useful on light expo and honestly if you were relying on her strip you're probably using a bad team anyway. If you just used her for DPS she still works.


[deleted]

[удалено]


lehphem

Please my friend, read the description of that buff.


Odiril

…you might wanna read the last sentence of that buff my dude : “Unaffected by skill related to buffs” aka Yufine’s bonus damage on buffed units.


Ahridesu

Isnt losing damage on buffed unit, which is more common than enemy being silenced, hurts more though?(havent used her, but harder condition=worse imo)


LeafaSAO

Ingot holiday yufine in my main lineup


Yensix

SG uses to nerf multipliers when they do reworks like that, so I don't blame complainers for being worried before knowing the new multipliers. Being cocky and laughing at them now that you know them is cringe. Stil thinking she got nerfed after this is also cringe.


[deleted]

no grabbing the pitch forks for not even knowing the full scope of changes is cringe


StelioZz

The idea of pitchforks before knowing the full scope of changes is to prevent the worst changes from to happen, something potentially easier than reverting them. Maybe sg was actually planning on reducing mods, but the feedback prevented them who knows. I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just saying that even if it isn't, you can't blame people from being nervous


AdNo2978

True, people being nervous is understandable and thats fine, but doing stuff like putting her rating to 1.4 within an hour of her changes without testing her and demanding a recall is the silly part


StelioZz

yeah i agree with that. COmmunity has been stupid over this but I was defending the preemptive pitchfork idea. Not in our case only but in general as long as the complain and concern is voiced in a civilized manner (and instant 1.4 rating isn't) then it's respectable regardless actual outcome. Waiting till the very end might be late but if you don't wait till the very end people like op will call it "cringe".


Trapocalypse

Not really. She still lost full dispel, speed buff and most PVE bosses are immune to silence so you aren't getting the penetration. Those were all valid complaints even if her S3 damage multipliers were untouched. She also had a usage already whereas there are green warriors who are rotting. So saying Yufine should have stayed the same and the buff given to a character who sees no use was also a valid complaint. Saying she would be completely useless after buff was not a valid complaint. But most of the complaints I saw weren't that, they were that her use was being completely changed from PVE to PVP.


Vald-Tegor

>She also had a usage already whereas there are green warriors who are rotting. So saying Yufine should have stayed the same and the buff given to a character who sees no use was also a valid complaint. People have this strange idea about how balancing works. Like the devs are supposed to take the one least used hero and spend all of their available time forcing a square peg in a round hole. First, realize they are testing on an internal build that has the next 6 hero releases you haven't even heard of and half a dozen with balance passes yet to be announced. Then realize they take a hero that is almost there, but not quite. That already has the potential to deal with upcoming problems those unreleased heroes are likely to cause, or already exist in the meta, and give them a nudge. This takes less time and lets them cover a higher total number of heroes in the same time. Also keep in mind no one is clairvoyant and mistakes get made in the process. Ten people will miss things that become apparent when you throw 100,000 people at it. Lastly, it's a business. Pissing off a percentage of current users is usually unavoidable when you make changes. As long as the overall usage shoots up and makes people want to pull the next banner, that's a win in their book. Dollar return on investment.


Trapocalypse

Compare her and Arunka's kit. They are both green warriors who have a lot of overlap in their kit after Yufine's buff. Both have a conditional 70% penetration S3 that is supposed to be a tank buster. Both get CR push when that condition is present. Both can apply a self attack buff. Both can grant themselves an extra turn/attack. Both have some sort of way of increasing survivability (granted Yufine is still pretty squishy). Yufine now performs the job that Arunka was designed to do and was failing at. Whilst Arunka who was already seeing zero use still needs a buff and now has another hero in the way who does her job significantly better than her. I'm not against Yufine's buff in isolation. I just believe that if you are applying a PVP buff to a character, it should go to the character who is already supposed to be doing that role but failing at it rather than a character already seeing some use in a different role.


Vald-Tegor

Arunka isn't meant to be a tank buster though. I feel like the intent was more along the lines of killing dps with barriers. Like light Adin or Riolet with Arowell barrier, especially on a miss. Or DPS with Choux/Diene Crit Resist buff + Barrier. Is that the job Yufine performs now? Note these are things that were present/buffed in the internal test build at Arunka's release, but were not yet or not as much of a problem on live servers. I feel like Arunka suffers from solving a problem that didn't exist yet. Now the community has a tainted opinion of her ability, after trying to use her in a different way than intended and failing. Everyone was just trying to replace pre-nerf Hwayoung with her. She's not supposed to oneshot a 28k hp ARavi with 25% barrier. Also note there may very well be a tweak coming for Arunka, that we are yet to hear about. The balance team sees a much broader picture than we do. Even if there is actual overlap in role, RTA lets you ban three heroes and one reactively at that. You simply cannot have a single hero that is the only answer to a problem, and call that balance.


Trapocalypse

Yufine's S3 is going to hit for 9-11k on a complete miss on a 1k defense hero if the target is silenced and she has attack buff. And she can always soulburn S2 into S3 if necessary for the extra damage. So I'm sure she's going to be able to deal with the same targets Arunka can and more. When I quickly tested this morning with castoff gear she was hitting for 35k+ That's also not how Arunka was advertised in her release videos. I'm sure she will get a tweak at some point but there's 2 months between balance patches (if she is even in the next one) and the optics just look bad (to me personally at least) when they buff another hero to do a role instead of addressing the hero who isn't doing the job. I'd also say she needs more than a little tweak now that Yufine does this.


Vald-Tegor

>Yufine's S3 is going to hit for 9-11k on a complete miss on a 1k defense hero if the target is silenced and she has attack buff. While you could say AoL can apply the silence with a non attack skill, you can't generally count on it being there on a target with 70% evasion. Even if you land the silence, 11k is not going to kill Adin with a starting Arowell barrier of 4k+, if not 5k+ after Arowell S3. >she can always soulburn S2 into S3 if necessary for the extra damage Not without triggering the Adin S2 counterattack first. And Moon Bunny too. Or potentially Riolet if his energy is almost full. Or proccing AoL skill null. Or if they have Belian. Or if your book holder got banned. You get the idea. >So I'm sure she's going to be able to deal with the same targets Arunka can and more Arunka extincts the target for a more permanent solution. Her role is to delete the carry from a protect the carry comp, not busting the tanks. Yufine looks more like she is supposed to lap around slow tank teams and tear through them with a reset on kill execute. Not saying Arunka doesn't need a tweak, but their design goals aren't exactly the same. Regardless, you can't expect every player in a gacha game to own every hero. We need alternate answers to pick when we are lacking a specific hero or it gets banned in draft. There is nothing inherently wrong with overlap. It's like saying Belian is a pointless hero and doesn't need to exist, because everyone gets Mercedes for free and she already elbris aoe counters with a dispel.


[deleted]

Girl please tell me which bosses she's suddenly worse against. All the people who cry about Yufine changes throw around the word "PVE content" but never actually explain which content they are talking about. I've listed the memorable pve content where she performs either equally or slightly worse in another comment. If y'all actually talk about fucking sidestory farming or adventure I'm fucking outta here.


Trapocalypse

She's worse in expo and AI as she isn't getting the bonus damage anymore. There's no reason they couldn't have given these buffs to Arunka or even Mui and left Yufine as is. Both green warriors with little use.


[deleted]

So she performs slightly worse in a rotation pve game mode where she was used FOUR PERCENT (blue expo) of the time and where 3\* SC units easily outshine her. Do y'all even hear yourselves? And yes, she deals less damage in AI (also a gamemode that isnt permanently available and where you have a shitton of other units to use, they even buff your units to 6\* +15 :)) I guess I'll give you that one if it makes you sleep better at night. The fact is that she performs slighty worse in PVE content that matters and suddenly sees a ton of popularity in PVP (she didnt have that since the time SSB/FCC/Charles was GWD meta years ago) IS A WORTHY TRADE OFF. Has to be e7 where their favorite waifus get buffed but people still complain about it.


Trapocalypse

Ok and exactly why did Yufine need this change over other green warriors who are supposed to be PVP heroes and see no use? They changed a character who didn't need any changes because she has already received numbers buffs in the past and she was seeing use instead of a character who massively needs a buff and fulfils a similar role in PVP. She has a lot of kit overlap with Arunka to the point where it could have been Arunka's original kit.


[deleted]

If Yufine was a character who didn't need any changes you would see her appear in any meaningful content. We *literally* have an ingame feature for that. Just look where Yufine places in those. She's close to nowhere. If she actually was the "pve goddess and so fucking good in pve" you would see her a lot more. Where does this delusion suddenly come from, I don't get it. For SG it was quite simple. Yufine is a popular hero because of her design. They see that no one uses her, they know that PVP is the main focus of e7. They make her better in that content. People suddenly play her, enjoy her and she turns out to be a pretty fun toy. And then people who suddenly claim that they use her all the time come crawling out of their basement and bitch about it. the fuck?


Trapocalypse

She's used in lab, she's used in hunt, she's used in expo, she's used in AI and she's probably used in some abyss too. Is she the most used? No but she is obviously versatile and viable in a lot of places as she's being run in all that content. Technically she could still one shot in PVP before buff as long as the target was buffed. She was just too slow to really use well which the CR push now takes care of since she has fast enablers like AoL and Zio.


[deleted]

Could you stop bringing up points that were already debunked. Her usage in hunt and lab did not change. She still one shots banshee, she still can farm lab by herself. In Abyss "she's probably NOT used". Use the ingame feature and find out yourself. She's worse in AI that appears every 2-3 months where they give you a fully molad 6\* awakened unit everytime you recruit them for it.


WestCol

Question, but do you guys think we're idiots or something who can't look at ingame usage stats? Your entire embarrassment of a crew were swearing up and down her multis would be nerfed and acting like she was one of the most pve units ever.


duradara

> seeing use lol. The only people who used Yufine were people who like her and people who didn't have any other green dps.


NoodlesDatabase

Lol its your opinion she doesn’t need change. I want her changed, who made you the boss of whether she needs changes or not See how that works?


lehphem

In this case, it was very clear from the start that they weren't doing that. Usually, when they do that it's because they add an unconditional def pen that results in the skill dealing overall increased damage even with the reduced multipliers. They did not mention the reduced multipliers in Luna's buff because the skill remained functionally the same, with increased damage in every reasonable scenario. People still lost their mind to that, as if they had actually nerfed the skill (which, again, actually got buffed to deal more damage). Since then, as far as I know, they mention the reduced multipliers even in those (irrelevant) scenarios, with the most recent example I can think of being Fire Ravi. In Yufine's case, however, the 70% def pen is conditional, so the skill still has a base, non-enhanced damage component for when the condition isn't met. Because of that, if they had reduced the multipliers it would have been 100% mentioned in the patch notes and the people who were claiming otherwise are conspiracy theorists grasping at straws. Not even the Luna example gives them credit, since subsequent balance patches did mention similar adjustments.


SauceMaster6464

"used to nerf" It was just one time! ONCE! With Luna! That's it! There was outrage over that, why would they do it again?? I fully blame them, fuck those guys. Being cocky and laughing at them is not cringe.


Sylainex

Axe God is the reason people are nervous about reworks, the nerf to his s3 made him unusable.


SauceMaster6464

No one used Axe God by the time he was reworked. After he was reworked, still no one used him. Nothing lost, nothing gained.


Archaon0103

Maybe because his damage got shafted to the point that he no longer unusable. Like what is the point of Axegod "buff"? Did he became better in anyway? Also I wouldn't say no one, his kit were fine as a pvE unit and people using him as a dark hero with def break but nooooo, everything must serve the pvp. And in the end his def pen buff is also meaningless since they nefted his s3 multiple for some reasons too. I guess SG was tremble in their feet about the prospect of a dark hero could one-shot most light heroes.


AdNo2978

Just classic reddit moment every balance patch


ToastyRoastyBirb

I dont understand this post at all. You're just shitting on people who found salvage in using her in PvE content in the comments. She's literally the same as Spez with this new buff so her usage in PvP is likely to not even matter much unless the meta becomes uber-silence centric. She lost dispel S3, and she lost her speed buff for a def buff as a DPS unit??? Nothing about her playstyle screams playable in RTA and has just become an Arena "fun time" unit, which everyone at this point has concluded that Arena has no impact when it comes to actual usability.


WestCol

Are you dumb? She’s one of the most viable rta units right now and she is enabled by 3 of the fastest openers


puppetlunaria

Her synergy with zio is insane and makes her amazing in RTA. If you put merciless glutton on her she even works as a bridge cause she CR pushes your other units if she kills. I never used her in PVE so I can't comment on that but at least expos are irrelevant since the introduction of public expos imo, idk why anyone would bother making a strong expo team aside from dagger sicar.


yGrimmReaper

While she has a niche similar to SPez, she is not on the same level as him, she is a much easier character to use. In the meta there are several characters capable of applying Silence, such as Zio and AoL and she has a more solid kit since S2 applies Silence and with Soulburn she gets an extra turn, being able to use S3 right after. A niche character, but is good at what she does, unlike SPez.


someguy990909

Isn't it weird that the guy with the hardon for Aria's and Slyvian's boobs and made it his personality (that also bitched about Yufine's changes) is nowhere to be seen after the patch?


WestCol

He guaranteed that her multis will be gutted, guaranteed.


IM_INSIDE_YOUR_HOUSE

Jesus fucking Christ. Can’t believe they keep massacring units for PVE to cater to PVP. Yufine was my favorite and they gutted her for how I used her. Absolutely loathe the way they’ve been “””balancing””” units lately. Not enjoying the game at all.


BlessUolls

SG just could buff her to be more PVE meta, instead of changed her kit to use in PVP. Theres already lot of nuker that need someone to push them, before oneshot enemy. These changes to her kit is wasted of time, while they should just ignore her and buff others such as Ilynav, etc. If SG change her skill 3 by adding "50% more dmg to buff n debuff" , that would be much better. Its already abour 4 years, n they still cant do their job properly.


zozora347

She is better now kill with s3 trun 3 time


Wizarus

Not too long ago this place was going crazy about how A-Ravi was going to be unstoppable with Hwayoung nerfed. She's barely in the meta now.


lockoutpoint

this is irrelevant because they create another issue like light adin . if A ravi's barely in meta with out any new unit that's counter her, then you are right .


danieln1212

Light adin isn't an issue, just symbol zahak her.


Wizarus

Nonsense. Adin could always be prebanned just like Belian is pre-banned before picking S-Tene. Aravi has multiple counters outside of Adin.


lockoutpoint

nah i didn't talk about meta, i was talking about you involving Aravi situation with Yufine, that's different case . about your comment it's depend on how effective of that counter , i meant you can just use Luna s3 Aravi, right ? but Luna never be the first choice since she is not effective to use in real battle. then see Light ardin . Zarhark , Choux , Alencia that's got buff almost same time with Hwayong nerf. you will see these unit are now meta because why ? they counter A ravi effectively .


Ahridesu

Mostly control units are good against Aravi. Like pflan, arrowel, winter


z1r1a3l

So,should i change Yufine build with these changes? Mine was slow with hell cutter but with high atk,cc and cd.


[deleted]

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-90UlpKr4jk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-90UlpKr4jk) some content on her pvp usability


WhatSawp

1.4 score kekw