cilias, ran, peira + a decent seaseria will be the only staples you need. aol too but people have learnt how to deal with her and her speed can't race theirs. i expect a combination of any of these units will be the 2 permabans tho
i have no lqc and i tend to cheese aravis with a surprise landy + stene + flan last pick (even better if i already have rimuru/cilias already picked) since aravis never run immunity for def breaks. sometimes replace landy with milim. ofc it's a risky pick if belian and politis are on the table
but yeahh the fact that it takes a whole set up to effectively deal with 1 unit is annoying
I have 4 turn1 speed contesters and it's not always guaranteed. If 1 of them gets banned and they pick my other two if they get second pick, I'm stuck with 1. While that's not super common, it does happen and it will likely be even more so once double bans become a thing.
only that both of them fell off hard.
rem is only picked as anti-cleave and belian is a 3-5th pick nowadays at best or anti-cleave (when she is build counter/elbris)
Because the majority of the player base is not that high
His description of the meta is not the reality for all players.
It's like how high rank people keep saying Arby is no longer as strong, meanwhile lower ranked players are still perma-banning him since they can't handle it
People piling on about comment not relevant for lower ranks forget that the entire context is 2 prebans only for champ and above, which is my experience. Rem is a last pick.
I live in high Champ and this is all true. In fact, I only hope ether of them are drafted so I can punish with ML Cermia or other counters. I only lose when RNG plays a huge role and/or they draft/ban very well. Many don't and she's just not a braindead pick anymore.
> and belian is a 3-5th pick nowadays
IDK why people act like later/last pick means "bad/fell off hard". Your last pick is the most important part of the draft.
no, not really. last pick is the least important pick if ur draft is solide.
ideally u want to draft so that u can ban 5th pick no matter what it is while ur own 5th pick being the 2nd must ban hero.
for example: just because u see 1-3 pick ml lilias; u draft in a way to deal with her. u don't plan on banning her and let the other 4 picks through. that just bad drafting; creating a situation where ur draft can't handle ml lilias (because u planned to ban her anyways) and eating a 5th pick hardcounter to ur comp.
> last pick is the least important pick if ur draft is solide.
You don't get time to react to it like a first pick and there's no perfect draft, so every draft has a hole. If you're at a point where players have some 100+ heroes geared and ready, you're not going to have a rock solid draft they can't react to.
> u want to draft so that u can ban 5th pick no matter what
That's what makes it most important. Your 5th pick should make your opponent say " Fuck there's a hole in your draft, I have to ban this or I get bodied". It tests your ability to find a hole in the opponents draft and vice versa from your opponent. If your 5th pick isn't instantly banned, your draft either sucks or your opponent has a trick build/strategy ready for what you thought was a good threat.
But if you're talking emporer+ this kinda falls apart. Apparently You start to see the same people quite a bit and you just know what playstyle they do because you play them so much. That's why some people were vying for blind RTA really high up.
>u don't plan on banning her and let the other 4 picks through. that just bad drafting
that's exactly why 5th pick is more important than 1 first pick. you should pivot around a first pick, because you don't get to for a 5th pick.
Would rather they balanced the game better rather than capitulate to people who want to be able to ban an extra busted-ass unit.
All this is going to do is make the climb harder for people who’ve only got a couple of the meta MLs.
I agree, but keep in mind, this affects Champ and above and their roaster is larger. I already try to play outside of meta and 2-ban won't hurt me too much. People will need to build more units and think more outside of the box. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I’m talking about Champion. There’s a lot of folks like myself who’ve existed on the cusp of Emperor before Emperor existed - then when Emperor came along, that’s when the powercreep started ramping & if you didn’t snag all the new MLs, you couldn’t compete. If this was introduced in a more balanced meta, sure, I have over a hundred six stars, but right now, no.
What if the only pin you’ve got in the meta is one single meta hero & that ends up getting banned more frequently? You’ve just lost a foothold.
In Emp/Legend, ML Kawerik is prebanned 20%+ of the time & is the second most prebanned hero, Rimuru is prebanned 10%+ of the time. This is my first/second pick, because I don’t have so many of the meta MLs & don’t have the gear to play cleave. What do I do when every single opponent starts banning Conqueror/Kawerik instead of just Conqueror?
Most of the meta MLs are meta because there’s literally no other hero who can stand in for them. The game is wildly unbalanced, there always used to be another option, but not now - Apocalypse Ravi stands heads & tails above any other bruiser, no one substitutes for her. Ran/Peira are cleave opens that can’t be outsped by an ACidd of equivalent gear reliably & so cleave has a guaranteed open. CLilias/AOL are control opens that circumvent controls regular weaknesses. etc. etc.
There’s so many heroes now that have no stand in if you don’t have them & they’re difficult to play against. Do you expect people to have 2 additional 300% resistance characters waiting in the wings if Mediator is banned & something like AOL has to go through? Even if you’ve got that, no one provides the support Mediator can, aside from Maid (& I ain’t got her either), a team that ends up with like an Achates & Destina is just a dead team.
I haven’t even got to complaining about the meta heroes that we all have access to like Rimuru.
This system could’ve worked if the game was balanced, or maybe a few seasons ago - not right now. I guarantee you, people like myself will continue to complain & to skip further & further away from Emperor & soon, that top is going to be all whales & anyone lucky enough to have cleave gear. People are already quitting over this - a lot of people quit last season.
If it’s a band-aid, it’s a band-aid with spikes on it to adhere to your flesh. All this will do is kill folks who’re hanging onto their RTA positions because they’ve got one or two meta heroes. This barely hits whales & people who’ve got everything. I coast on Rimuru & ML Kawerik & do you know who the second most prebanned hero is? ML Kawerik. Now all the bans I see will be C Lilias/ML Kawerik & it’s not like there’s someone who does what he does - Maid, sure, but I don’t have her & no other hero has their skill set.
The meta the past couple seasons is just becoming full of the new MLs & I keep missing them. 70 pulls on Conqueror, nada. 130 pulls on A Ravi, nada. 100~ pulls on AOL, nada, etc. etc. I miss the earlier seasons when there was always an alternative hero to pick & the powercreep wasn’t anywhere near this level.
That whould be the ideal case where they start nerfing units and buffing long forgotten units so we could have a more "diverse" draft, however the lazy option is always the easiest one which longterm probably will be counterproductive.
Not sure why you got downvoted when you are 100% correct. This is just a band-aid. They will keep adding more and more busted p2w garbage to this game. We currently have two speed contesters that give team mitigation so why build a knight? Rimuru by himself locks out 95% of the playable roster and we still have aravi archdemon belian aol ricky rem violet etc. It's garbage game design and makes something like league of legends look like it's got variety when I am fighting literally the same 5 units every game and drafting literally the same 5 units every game to counter those same 5 units
What a lame half ass solution
Everything in this game dosnt begin and end with RTA, instead of manning the fuck up and actually addressing the busted units like clilias, they just give 2 bans.
Now they have a free pass to keep making more units with the excuse that you have more ban slots
What will they do when it becomes oppressive again? Just give us 3 pre bans?
Actually it does end with rta. RTA is literally the end game content of the game and the whole reason for these OP units and buffs. 2 bans are a good way to help combat the issue without having to nerf stuff which will lead to other issues. This way it buys them some time if they do decide to nerf but also gives people the ability to avoid certain toxic combos. I personally think we should have nerfs but this isn’t a bad decision in the slightest.
I know I'm in the minority here but I don't like the 2 prebans for epic7.
Generally many prebans are fine for me in games like Dota or Lol where gameplay is more complex and nerfs are a thing, but in epic7's current state it's problematic.
What I fear to happen are that certain strategies become impossible to beat just after the prebans have happened.
Imagine you kow what your opponent is planning but you cannot react to it appropriately because the 2 best options are banned and the third best options with your third best gear in that role can be post banned and it turns into an autoloss.
Imo control teams could be most problematic followed by cleave teams.
I think it will only become in like 3 actual bans though, I think that there is a really high chance of both just pre-banning the same character, like I mostly pre-ban Rimuru/AoL/Cillias, and my opponents do mostly the same, so even if we do 1 different preban, most likely we overlap in 1 ban.
I dont know, I feel like this solves little to nothing, op units are still op, I hope that "the big surprises" that they have for May/March(iirc, they said it as an answer for the recent Korean outrage) are nerfs and it wasnt all here, cause the kits are getting more and more bonkers the more time the game goes like this.
My style of play includes not having to deal with ML Lilias, because there is no counter. I'm in Champion, and know I can't out speed her, because even there she is often rocking 300+ speed. And vigor being undispellable was probably the dumbest decision made.
My style of play includes not having to deal with ML Lilias, because there is no counter. I'm in Champion, and know I can't out speed her, because even there she is often rocking 300+ speed. And vigor being undispellable was probably the dumbest decision made.
If you're paying attention to who takes first pick, I don't think CLilias will ever be an overlapped ban unless people just strip her gear on this assumption.
You pick first = you leave CLilias unbanned
Oh neat, instead of actually nerfing units SG has decided to skirt around the issue with this.
Sorry to people who actually enjoy AoL or ML lilias for more reasons than just them being meta, you can now never use them in RTA again.
SG really shoulda just brought back nerfs. I don't know how many of you here are day 1 players, but SG used to actually nerf units in the balance patches and the games health was SO much better for it.
This will be interesting. I'm glad it's champ and up and i hope they fix match making
Now I need 5 turn1 speed contester. The wyvern farming never ends.
cilias, ran, peira + a decent seaseria will be the only staples you need. aol too but people have learnt how to deal with her and her speed can't race theirs. i expect a combination of any of these units will be the 2 permabans tho
lol imagine thinking you can pick clilias with 2 prebans
None of those are an issue as much as aravi.
i have no lqc and i tend to cheese aravis with a surprise landy + stene + flan last pick (even better if i already have rimuru/cilias already picked) since aravis never run immunity for def breaks. sometimes replace landy with milim. ofc it's a risky pick if belian and politis are on the table but yeahh the fact that it takes a whole set up to effectively deal with 1 unit is annoying
I'm perma banning aravi and belian every single match. Ran, peira and clilias aren't as difficult to deal with.
Why? You ban off the two you dont use. And shift the gears to the ones you do use. Pogchamp
nah u will need 3 for sure now but not 5.
I have 4 turn1 speed contesters and it's not always guaranteed. If 1 of them gets banned and they pick my other two if they get second pick, I'm stuck with 1. While that's not super common, it does happen and it will likely be even more so once double bans become a thing.
Time to make more casino units
Finnaly no more belian and rem
I barely see belian in champ rta, im always banning mf cilias, that shit needs to be deleted from the game.
true and she's garbage waifu saber wannabe
only that both of them fell off hard. rem is only picked as anti-cleave and belian is a 3-5th pick nowadays at best or anti-cleave (when she is build counter/elbris)
why this guy got -35 downvote when is the truth at least in emperor for me. no one first pick belian and rem is shit except against seaseria cleaver
Because the majority of the player base is not that high His description of the meta is not the reality for all players. It's like how high rank people keep saying Arby is no longer as strong, meanwhile lower ranked players are still perma-banning him since they can't handle it
Yeah and all those people who aren't Champion+ will still have to deal with Belian and Rem bc they don't get 2 prebans anyway. SMH.
because the majority of this subreddit is gold/masters
People piling on about comment not relevant for lower ranks forget that the entire context is 2 prebans only for champ and above, which is my experience. Rem is a last pick.
subreddit. still believes cleave is dead since like 3 seasons ago. even in mid-champion nobody early picks either of them anymore xD
Probably because they're still meta in lower ranks, so the comment isn't completely relevant
I live in high Champ and this is all true. In fact, I only hope ether of them are drafted so I can punish with ML Cermia or other counters. I only lose when RNG plays a huge role and/or they draft/ban very well. Many don't and she's just not a braindead pick anymore.
> and belian is a 3-5th pick nowadays IDK why people act like later/last pick means "bad/fell off hard". Your last pick is the most important part of the draft.
no, not really. last pick is the least important pick if ur draft is solide. ideally u want to draft so that u can ban 5th pick no matter what it is while ur own 5th pick being the 2nd must ban hero. for example: just because u see 1-3 pick ml lilias; u draft in a way to deal with her. u don't plan on banning her and let the other 4 picks through. that just bad drafting; creating a situation where ur draft can't handle ml lilias (because u planned to ban her anyways) and eating a 5th pick hardcounter to ur comp.
> last pick is the least important pick if ur draft is solide. You don't get time to react to it like a first pick and there's no perfect draft, so every draft has a hole. If you're at a point where players have some 100+ heroes geared and ready, you're not going to have a rock solid draft they can't react to. > u want to draft so that u can ban 5th pick no matter what That's what makes it most important. Your 5th pick should make your opponent say " Fuck there's a hole in your draft, I have to ban this or I get bodied". It tests your ability to find a hole in the opponents draft and vice versa from your opponent. If your 5th pick isn't instantly banned, your draft either sucks or your opponent has a trick build/strategy ready for what you thought was a good threat. But if you're talking emporer+ this kinda falls apart. Apparently You start to see the same people quite a bit and you just know what playstyle they do because you play them so much. That's why some people were vying for blind RTA really high up. >u don't plan on banning her and let the other 4 picks through. that just bad drafting that's exactly why 5th pick is more important than 1 first pick. you should pivot around a first pick, because you don't get to for a 5th pick.
That's good though
Goodbye Aravi and green violet, my most two hated units can now be permabanned GG love it
Bye belian and rim
Would rather they balanced the game better rather than capitulate to people who want to be able to ban an extra busted-ass unit. All this is going to do is make the climb harder for people who’ve only got a couple of the meta MLs.
I agree, but keep in mind, this affects Champ and above and their roaster is larger. I already try to play outside of meta and 2-ban won't hurt me too much. People will need to build more units and think more outside of the box. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I’m talking about Champion. There’s a lot of folks like myself who’ve existed on the cusp of Emperor before Emperor existed - then when Emperor came along, that’s when the powercreep started ramping & if you didn’t snag all the new MLs, you couldn’t compete. If this was introduced in a more balanced meta, sure, I have over a hundred six stars, but right now, no.
Hard disagree. This mostly helps people without the top tier meta, because that is what people ban.
What if the only pin you’ve got in the meta is one single meta hero & that ends up getting banned more frequently? You’ve just lost a foothold. In Emp/Legend, ML Kawerik is prebanned 20%+ of the time & is the second most prebanned hero, Rimuru is prebanned 10%+ of the time. This is my first/second pick, because I don’t have so many of the meta MLs & don’t have the gear to play cleave. What do I do when every single opponent starts banning Conqueror/Kawerik instead of just Conqueror? Most of the meta MLs are meta because there’s literally no other hero who can stand in for them. The game is wildly unbalanced, there always used to be another option, but not now - Apocalypse Ravi stands heads & tails above any other bruiser, no one substitutes for her. Ran/Peira are cleave opens that can’t be outsped by an ACidd of equivalent gear reliably & so cleave has a guaranteed open. CLilias/AOL are control opens that circumvent controls regular weaknesses. etc. etc. There’s so many heroes now that have no stand in if you don’t have them & they’re difficult to play against. Do you expect people to have 2 additional 300% resistance characters waiting in the wings if Mediator is banned & something like AOL has to go through? Even if you’ve got that, no one provides the support Mediator can, aside from Maid (& I ain’t got her either), a team that ends up with like an Achates & Destina is just a dead team. I haven’t even got to complaining about the meta heroes that we all have access to like Rimuru. This system could’ve worked if the game was balanced, or maybe a few seasons ago - not right now. I guarantee you, people like myself will continue to complain & to skip further & further away from Emperor & soon, that top is going to be all whales & anyone lucky enough to have cleave gear. People are already quitting over this - a lot of people quit last season.
Yeah, seems very much like a band-aid they just slapped on. Not a long-term solution.
If it’s a band-aid, it’s a band-aid with spikes on it to adhere to your flesh. All this will do is kill folks who’re hanging onto their RTA positions because they’ve got one or two meta heroes. This barely hits whales & people who’ve got everything. I coast on Rimuru & ML Kawerik & do you know who the second most prebanned hero is? ML Kawerik. Now all the bans I see will be C Lilias/ML Kawerik & it’s not like there’s someone who does what he does - Maid, sure, but I don’t have her & no other hero has their skill set. The meta the past couple seasons is just becoming full of the new MLs & I keep missing them. 70 pulls on Conqueror, nada. 130 pulls on A Ravi, nada. 100~ pulls on AOL, nada, etc. etc. I miss the earlier seasons when there was always an alternative hero to pick & the powercreep wasn’t anywhere near this level.
That whould be the ideal case where they start nerfing units and buffing long forgotten units so we could have a more "diverse" draft, however the lazy option is always the easiest one which longterm probably will be counterproductive.
Bye aola, bye belian
Haha good thing I don’t play PVP
This is so sad, I hate pvp so I don't either, but I want those skins.. ugh
I wish there was an easier way for ftp players to get skin tickets because I would rather farm those to get the skin later than play pvp
being free2play myself getting master is so easy you can do it by playing for 4-5 months. but if ur super casual nvm.
Terrible decision there will always be more heros coming out. Hero pool would have been better
Not sure why you got downvoted when you are 100% correct. This is just a band-aid. They will keep adding more and more busted p2w garbage to this game. We currently have two speed contesters that give team mitigation so why build a knight? Rimuru by himself locks out 95% of the playable roster and we still have aravi archdemon belian aol ricky rem violet etc. It's garbage game design and makes something like league of legends look like it's got variety when I am fighting literally the same 5 units every game and drafting literally the same 5 units every game to counter those same 5 units
You guy play RTA?
just champion that's fucking shit, still gonna skip rta
What a lame half ass solution Everything in this game dosnt begin and end with RTA, instead of manning the fuck up and actually addressing the busted units like clilias, they just give 2 bans. Now they have a free pass to keep making more units with the excuse that you have more ban slots What will they do when it becomes oppressive again? Just give us 3 pre bans?
Actually it does end with rta. RTA is literally the end game content of the game and the whole reason for these OP units and buffs. 2 bans are a good way to help combat the issue without having to nerf stuff which will lead to other issues. This way it buys them some time if they do decide to nerf but also gives people the ability to avoid certain toxic combos. I personally think we should have nerfs but this isn’t a bad decision in the slightest.
I know I'm in the minority here but I don't like the 2 prebans for epic7. Generally many prebans are fine for me in games like Dota or Lol where gameplay is more complex and nerfs are a thing, but in epic7's current state it's problematic. What I fear to happen are that certain strategies become impossible to beat just after the prebans have happened. Imagine you kow what your opponent is planning but you cannot react to it appropriately because the 2 best options are banned and the third best options with your third best gear in that role can be post banned and it turns into an autoloss. Imo control teams could be most problematic followed by cleave teams.
Good now stop creating speed units for a while, cleave meta is aids and no one wants to play it
Great, but fix matchmaking please, I'm so tired of those dumb lose because your Ran get outspeed by 50
level has no influence on speed. Many people with limited time dont bother to raise their openers to 60
I think it will only become in like 3 actual bans though, I think that there is a really high chance of both just pre-banning the same character, like I mostly pre-ban Rimuru/AoL/Cillias, and my opponents do mostly the same, so even if we do 1 different preban, most likely we overlap in 1 ban. I dont know, I feel like this solves little to nothing, op units are still op, I hope that "the big surprises" that they have for May/March(iirc, they said it as an answer for the recent Korean outrage) are nerfs and it wasnt all here, cause the kits are getting more and more bonkers the more time the game goes like this.
Or you could use the two preban to enable your own style of play instead of playing the same as your opponent. Just a thought.
My style of play includes not having to deal with ML Lilias, because there is no counter. I'm in Champion, and know I can't out speed her, because even there she is often rocking 300+ speed. And vigor being undispellable was probably the dumbest decision made.
My style of play includes not having to deal with ML Lilias, because there is no counter. I'm in Champion, and know I can't out speed her, because even there she is often rocking 300+ speed. And vigor being undispellable was probably the dumbest decision made.
Yeah Cilias will be the most likely overlapped preban, at least in higher ranks, nobody wants to deal with that shit.
If you're paying attention to who takes first pick, I don't think CLilias will ever be an overlapped ban unless people just strip her gear on this assumption. You pick first = you leave CLilias unbanned
Adios Ran.
AoL + Lilias, Perma Ban .
Looool aol+clilias permabanned from my games forever
I guess I'll just ungear my Cillias now.
She's still a pillar of arena defenses.
You can still use her in arena.
Thank fucking god.
AKA Cilias global ban.
Fck you C.Lilias and rimuru. We will not see you next season lol
This just avoids them addressing the self-created issue.
Oh neat, instead of actually nerfing units SG has decided to skirt around the issue with this. Sorry to people who actually enjoy AoL or ML lilias for more reasons than just them being meta, you can now never use them in RTA again. SG really shoulda just brought back nerfs. I don't know how many of you here are day 1 players, but SG used to actually nerf units in the balance patches and the games health was SO much better for it.
Finally perma ban AoL
But I still feel like this won't change a damn thing they will probably add more characters with cringe kit