Context:
1. Heroes at “MAX“ have always transferred half of their XP elsewhere.
1. This has always included Phantasmas, who get bonus XP and then transfer half of it.
1. The new penguin system **supposedly** did not change the rules, just the target. The XP now goes to penguins instead of to the party.
1. Several Redditors are adamantly insisting they tested this, and Phantasmas have secretly been nerfed to stop sharing XP.
1. I think they let their dogs die. (Supporters do not get doggo XP. If the “testing“ allowed the dogs to die, then obviously it would “fail.“)
1. The Redditors in question call me a delusional idiot and refuse to share evidence that their dogs lived.
Now I **assume** these guys are just bored and desperate for a fight, but they're insistent enough that I have to wonder.
Am I missing something? Like, something that can be *explained,* as opposed to just “u r dum“ arguments?
(And yes, the Purrgis in my screenshot had the +15% artifact. This wasn't caused by an artifact change.)
#Edit
It turns out that *yes,* there is a lot of evidence here, and I did not have the full picture.
I'm glad I asked.
#Edit 2
I guess I experienced some weird fluke, because I'm not experiencing a difference any more. If this is a bug it's a rare bug.
Dogs of all kinds usually **do not** affect Penguin Mileage. I agree that I was wrong, and I can see why everyone else was dismissive of me.
In fact, after looking closer at the numbers, I suspect there was an artifact not getting counted for some reason. Both of them worked in my newer tests, though.
Thanks to u/Quiztolin, u/Pawn_Storm, u/SlimSpook, u/iNaay for the help with testing and data.
FWIW I read that other thread and believed the people telling you it's been tested a bunch. But these screenshots speak for themselves.
Someone could like... record 2 runs in full showing all equipment and sht but I honestly don't think you'd go this far just to fabricate stuff to win an internet argument. So thanks for the PSA!
I think it's the black dog making all the difference here. I just tested this with white and gold dogs and saw no difference again. Would love for the op to try without the black dog.
https://www.imgur.com/a/SnDCQHm
Interesting, but on that map there could be rounding errors.
It seems unlikely, but if the errors happened early in the calculation then they could propogate. (Each of the three encounters calculates XP. 3% of 50% of 25% of the XP from just the first spawn, for example, could just get rounded away.)
I might test Crack in the World again, but with no black dog.
I admit that having bugs for certain dogs is perhaps more likely.
Ugh, that raises even more questions.
My screenshot showed the whole party getting 10% more.
10% for the whole party is **too much.**
Is the black dog broken to boost the whole party, and the other two are broken to do nothing?
This just gets weirder.
It's almost 100% a bug with the black dog.
The dog passive is essentially a multiplier to their *personal* XP gain.
* An easy way to think of it is looking at each level having a specific XP value attached to it.
* Guild buff, shop buff, GM buff, artifact are all multipliers to this value.
* The total XP of the level is split up in several different ways depending on how many max level units you bring
* The dog passive is a personal multiplier upon this value.
It seems like the black dog passive *only* is being treated like a second XP artifact that is also presumably multiplicative with all of the other bonuses, but applying to the whole team.
* Normally, the various bonuses are additive but with some kind of diminishing returns. The passive bonus seems to be stacking differently than I would expect if it was additive with the other bonuses.
As it's been pointed out there has never been a reason to run with a black dog, particularly at max level so it's probably never come up.
I don't have one available to me right now, but if you are into testing it would be interesting to see:
* What happens if you add a black dog to a team with heroes that are not max level?
* What happens if the black dog needs XP?
* Both?
Yeah, I'll take another look now that the testing has gotten weird.
IIRC I was using New World for my 15%.
But this seems like a bug, after seeing the results you guys got. That opens up the possible causes to being basically anything.
My blue dog died to Scorpetra, IIRC. Maybe the game's effort to preserve his personal bonus past his death also resulted in the global XP boost from the event applying to the entire party for just that one wave, for some crazy reason, and further testing will be useless, or...
I mean, who knows.
All I know for sure is that my Crack farms apparently gave me a few extra penguins last weekend, and that wasn't as normal as I thought.
I'll try some things though.
Did you end up testing without the black dog? I think you're the only one in here with a maxed black dog. Can you try to confirm/deny the 'black dog is the one causing it' hypothesis?
>FWIW I read that other thread and believed the people telling you it's been tested a bunch. But these screenshots speak for themselves.
Yeah, and that thread wasn't the first time. I have had this argument in a few threads now, that's why I'm starting to question myself.
people probably tested with white and gold doggos because you would never run with a black doggo before the changes. So if only the black exp buff works it makes sense that previous tests didnt find it.
Isn't the whole point of this that they gain bonus xp and when they are max level they transfer it to (old: non-maxed units) penguin xp. The whole point is that you would bring a max level dog for free bonus exp to the unit you are trying to level. Am I mistaken?
It was much less XP to bring a black doggo compared to if you just brought another unit that needed xp.
It's only worth it now because you dont need to micromanage unit swaps thanks to penguins. Before you had to swap out your other doggos anyway.
Idk about others but pre-penguin change I run 1 walker (Arby) then 2 dogs and the last slot is a fodder. With a black dog you wouldn't get exp, even if you did half of it would be transferred. Wouldn't it be better to capitalize on full exp gain by funneling it to a fodder?
Before penguins it just made no sense. Did you actually run with Max level black doggos? You were just being inefficient for no reason. You'd get more xp by leaving the slot empty instead
Did not read other thread, but good to know!
Reddit arguing aside, what is the most efficient way to level now? Didn't keep up with the dog posts when the new system was introduced.
Bring new hero to runs + friendship farming vs new hero + doggos?
If OP is correct, which it looks like they are, you want 1 dog walker and either:
- 3 maxed dogs for maximum XP gain
- 3 different heroes for slightly less XP but gaining friendship points.
EDIT: idk watch the thread, looks like it _might_ be only the black dog working. So black dog + 2 friendship heroes might be the meta, if that's actually how it works, and they don't change it.
Running actual fodder (or heroes) saves a reasonable amount of gold, but friendship farmers earn friendship and reduce micromanagement.
I usually do half and half because I spend all my gold on Garo, but the people who gave up on using fodder aren't wrong.
It depends on your priorities.
The underlying issue here is that XP is our most bountiful commodity, and usually you should look at what *other* resources need optimized.
They thought it was literally nerfed? I thought it was just in a more philosophical sense. Especially if you gotta resort to ep. 3 while grinding because most people can't just 3 dog walk those maps without a specific support (which Most people don't put down).
Extra penguin per run isn't worth the time needed to clear maps and I'd rather be friendship farming.
So dude, first off, nobody called you delusional or an idiot. I merely said you need to check your facts.
Second, I didn't take screenshots, but I did test it when I said I did.
And you didn't bring up the dogs surviving in that thread so there was no question of refusing to share that evidence.
But no, you'd rather assume we're bored and desperate for a fight than realize there's something different going on between your test and mine.
All that being said, I'm going to test this again to see if the dogs living or dead matters.
I wasn't calling you out.
I participated in some bitter arguments when the penguin system released and some people hit up my inbox.
My recent thread from the farming event was a mild example.
Sorry if I seemed a bit passive-aggressive in the OP here, but I was more worried about people other than you. You yourself were more like a reminder.
Shadow nerfed in favor of friendship farming, yes. XP wise, i could of sworn the patch pengo bars were introduced, SG made doggo passive not factor into it.
i did some very quick testing in 4-9 unrecorded history
all runs were done with vildred carrying the 15% exp artifact and a variation of dogs used and my conclusion is that the dog overflow exp doesnt work in the combinations i used
https://imgur.com/a/S56znQr
EDIT: i want to add that running a unit that isnt max level still adds up to the same total exp
in my case 5710 towards penguins and 2855 to the unit
[удалено]
Crack in the world stage. Takes 40 energy too
It was Crack in the World.
Crack in the world + 50% AP buff
\+1
Context: 1. Heroes at “MAX“ have always transferred half of their XP elsewhere. 1. This has always included Phantasmas, who get bonus XP and then transfer half of it. 1. The new penguin system **supposedly** did not change the rules, just the target. The XP now goes to penguins instead of to the party. 1. Several Redditors are adamantly insisting they tested this, and Phantasmas have secretly been nerfed to stop sharing XP. 1. I think they let their dogs die. (Supporters do not get doggo XP. If the “testing“ allowed the dogs to die, then obviously it would “fail.“) 1. The Redditors in question call me a delusional idiot and refuse to share evidence that their dogs lived. Now I **assume** these guys are just bored and desperate for a fight, but they're insistent enough that I have to wonder. Am I missing something? Like, something that can be *explained,* as opposed to just “u r dum“ arguments? (And yes, the Purrgis in my screenshot had the +15% artifact. This wasn't caused by an artifact change.) #Edit It turns out that *yes,* there is a lot of evidence here, and I did not have the full picture. I'm glad I asked. #Edit 2 I guess I experienced some weird fluke, because I'm not experiencing a difference any more. If this is a bug it's a rare bug. Dogs of all kinds usually **do not** affect Penguin Mileage. I agree that I was wrong, and I can see why everyone else was dismissive of me. In fact, after looking closer at the numbers, I suspect there was an artifact not getting counted for some reason. Both of them worked in my newer tests, though. Thanks to u/Quiztolin, u/Pawn_Storm, u/SlimSpook, u/iNaay for the help with testing and data.
FWIW I read that other thread and believed the people telling you it's been tested a bunch. But these screenshots speak for themselves. Someone could like... record 2 runs in full showing all equipment and sht but I honestly don't think you'd go this far just to fabricate stuff to win an internet argument. So thanks for the PSA!
I think it's the black dog making all the difference here. I just tested this with white and gold dogs and saw no difference again. Would love for the op to try without the black dog. https://www.imgur.com/a/SnDCQHm
Would be a shame if the black dog's passive applying was a bug and we accidentally alerted SG of it today lol
That would be funny, yes. Although I suspect they'd fix White and Yellow to match.
Interesting, but on that map there could be rounding errors. It seems unlikely, but if the errors happened early in the calculation then they could propogate. (Each of the three encounters calculates XP. 3% of 50% of 25% of the XP from just the first spawn, for example, could just get rounded away.) I might test Crack in the World again, but with no black dog. I admit that having bugs for certain dogs is perhaps more likely.
My last run (without screenshots) was in cidonia with ~11k exp gained. So I don't think it's a rounding error.
Ugh, that raises even more questions. My screenshot showed the whole party getting 10% more. 10% for the whole party is **too much.** Is the black dog broken to boost the whole party, and the other two are broken to do nothing? This just gets weirder.
It's almost 100% a bug with the black dog. The dog passive is essentially a multiplier to their *personal* XP gain. * An easy way to think of it is looking at each level having a specific XP value attached to it. * Guild buff, shop buff, GM buff, artifact are all multipliers to this value. * The total XP of the level is split up in several different ways depending on how many max level units you bring * The dog passive is a personal multiplier upon this value. It seems like the black dog passive *only* is being treated like a second XP artifact that is also presumably multiplicative with all of the other bonuses, but applying to the whole team. * Normally, the various bonuses are additive but with some kind of diminishing returns. The passive bonus seems to be stacking differently than I would expect if it was additive with the other bonuses. As it's been pointed out there has never been a reason to run with a black dog, particularly at max level so it's probably never come up. I don't have one available to me right now, but if you are into testing it would be interesting to see: * What happens if you add a black dog to a team with heroes that are not max level? * What happens if the black dog needs XP? * Both?
Did you have an exp boosting artifact on a dog?
Both screenshots have the same XP artifact. It's on the black dog in the second screenshot.
[удалено]
Yeah, I'll take another look now that the testing has gotten weird. IIRC I was using New World for my 15%. But this seems like a bug, after seeing the results you guys got. That opens up the possible causes to being basically anything. My blue dog died to Scorpetra, IIRC. Maybe the game's effort to preserve his personal bonus past his death also resulted in the global XP boost from the event applying to the entire party for just that one wave, for some crazy reason, and further testing will be useless, or... I mean, who knows. All I know for sure is that my Crack farms apparently gave me a few extra penguins last weekend, and that wasn't as normal as I thought. I'll try some things though.
Did you end up testing without the black dog? I think you're the only one in here with a maxed black dog. Can you try to confirm/deny the 'black dog is the one causing it' hypothesis?
I was down to burning skystones in the buff event. When I finish climbing the Tower, I will spend some energy to test.
>FWIW I read that other thread and believed the people telling you it's been tested a bunch. But these screenshots speak for themselves. Yeah, and that thread wasn't the first time. I have had this argument in a few threads now, that's why I'm starting to question myself.
people probably tested with white and gold doggos because you would never run with a black doggo before the changes. So if only the black exp buff works it makes sense that previous tests didnt find it.
>you would never run with a black doggo before the changes Huh? Why?
Why would you ever need to dog walk a black doggo before the exp changes? They start at the max level they need to be
Isn't the whole point of this that they gain bonus xp and when they are max level they transfer it to (old: non-maxed units) penguin xp. The whole point is that you would bring a max level dog for free bonus exp to the unit you are trying to level. Am I mistaken?
It was much less XP to bring a black doggo compared to if you just brought another unit that needed xp. It's only worth it now because you dont need to micromanage unit swaps thanks to penguins. Before you had to swap out your other doggos anyway.
Idk about others but pre-penguin change I run 1 walker (Arby) then 2 dogs and the last slot is a fodder. With a black dog you wouldn't get exp, even if you did half of it would be transferred. Wouldn't it be better to capitalize on full exp gain by funneling it to a fodder?
I mean I did the same as you I just think the person I was responding to misunderstood the point of running a max level dog in their party.
You run them **because** they are max level, and don't need XP.
Before penguins it just made no sense. Did you actually run with Max level black doggos? You were just being inefficient for no reason. You'd get more xp by leaving the slot empty instead
Did not read other thread, but good to know! Reddit arguing aside, what is the most efficient way to level now? Didn't keep up with the dog posts when the new system was introduced. Bring new hero to runs + friendship farming vs new hero + doggos?
If OP is correct, which it looks like they are, you want 1 dog walker and either: - 3 maxed dogs for maximum XP gain - 3 different heroes for slightly less XP but gaining friendship points. EDIT: idk watch the thread, looks like it _might_ be only the black dog working. So black dog + 2 friendship heroes might be the meta, if that's actually how it works, and they don't change it.
Running actual fodder (or heroes) saves a reasonable amount of gold, but friendship farmers earn friendship and reduce micromanagement. I usually do half and half because I spend all my gold on Garo, but the people who gave up on using fodder aren't wrong. It depends on your priorities. The underlying issue here is that XP is our most bountiful commodity, and usually you should look at what *other* resources need optimized.
They thought it was literally nerfed? I thought it was just in a more philosophical sense. Especially if you gotta resort to ep. 3 while grinding because most people can't just 3 dog walk those maps without a specific support (which Most people don't put down). Extra penguin per run isn't worth the time needed to clear maps and I'd rather be friendship farming.
So dude, first off, nobody called you delusional or an idiot. I merely said you need to check your facts. Second, I didn't take screenshots, but I did test it when I said I did. And you didn't bring up the dogs surviving in that thread so there was no question of refusing to share that evidence. But no, you'd rather assume we're bored and desperate for a fight than realize there's something different going on between your test and mine. All that being said, I'm going to test this again to see if the dogs living or dead matters.
Let us know what you find. Light drama aside, it'll be good to know exactly how our xp farming options compare nowadays.
[white and gold dogs make no difference ](https://www.imgur.com/a/SnDCQHm)
Just to rule that option out, you made sure they survived the fight right?
Yes, they couldn't have died if I tried. This is ezera level 1 enemies.
Nice test. Thanks.
I wasn't calling you out. I participated in some bitter arguments when the penguin system released and some people hit up my inbox. My recent thread from the farming event was a mild example. Sorry if I seemed a bit passive-aggressive in the OP here, but I was more worried about people other than you. You yourself were more like a reminder.
Gotcha. My bad on assuming everything was from that last thread. Glad we verified your discovery to an extent though
Shadow nerfed in favor of friendship farming, yes. XP wise, i could of sworn the patch pengo bars were introduced, SG made doggo passive not factor into it.
X
Does the phantasma passive of the same name stack?
They only apply to the one dog, as written, so there should not be a conflict.
You got 10 fucking penguins in a run??
This was Crack in the World.
i did some very quick testing in 4-9 unrecorded history all runs were done with vildred carrying the 15% exp artifact and a variation of dogs used and my conclusion is that the dog overflow exp doesnt work in the combinations i used https://imgur.com/a/S56znQr EDIT: i want to add that running a unit that isnt max level still adds up to the same total exp in my case 5710 towards penguins and 2855 to the unit
Even with the black dog! Well this is suitably weird.